13 Reasons Why: The Book

[Meredith Quill]

Your Book Talk Topic!

[ClareWalks]

I greatly enjoyed this book and am glad it's gonna be a show! Although I don't know  how they could possibly make it multiple seasons, considering the whole premise requires a definite endpoint.

[SnoGirl]

I would how many tapes are per episode.

I like this idea that Netflix is creating book shows, makes me wonder what else they're going to create. I dont know how Netflix makes its money, but this bookworm will willingly watch Books which are made into shows.

I wonder if its going to be a one season and done or if its going to be more seasons and the author of the books is going to give some insight on where a sequel would go from there.

[auntiemel]

Loved the book. This may be a crazy idea, but if this turned into an anthology series like American Horror Story or An American Crime, where each season was a completely new story just connected by theme, I'd be down. With the caveat that Jay Asher was coming up with the stories and leading the writing. But different stories where people figure out complex interpersonal narratives in the aftermath of a tragedy or other big event, and the truth of the situation is slowly revealed...there are SO MANY directions to go with that!

Hell, that could actually describe Big Little Lies, for that matter. :D

[sara416]

I loved this book. I loved that for the most part, all of the things that led to her suicide were small things piled up over time. Because that's real life! It's not always some major event that leads to suicidal thoughts, although of course sometimes it is. But all of the small things that just pile up and make your world seem hopeless...that's much more common. And I also loved that they NEVER said how she killed herself. Because that's not what the point is of course. I am a little nervous about the miniseries because of how much I liked the book, but it being multiple episodes and Jay Asher being involved gives me confidence that it will be good.

[jeansheridan]

I like the idea of an Anthology show featuring YA novels.  Deb Caletti, Lockhart, and so many other writers besides John Green write well rounded, smart teens dealing with STUFF. 

[Hanahope]

My 12 year old mentioned to me yesterday that she had been watching the show.  I had heard the premise, but I haven't watched or read the book.  Is this appropriate for a pre-teen to watch?  It doesn't 'glamorize' suicide, does it?  

[SnoGirl]

35 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

My 12 year old mentioned to me yesterday that she had been watching the show.  I had heard the premise, but I haven't watched or read the book.  Is this appropriate for a pre-teen to watch?  It doesn't 'glamorize' suicide, does it?  

Personally, I would not let your 12 year old watch it...but I also don't know your kid or your rules for her. I'm going to post the rest in spoilers just in case people havent finished the show.

Spoiler

The show includes two rapes and the sucide by cutting her wrists in a tub, and then found by her parents. I was so uncomfortable watching all three, I had to fast forward. I have watched a lot of crazy shows, but I think it was because they're teens, it just was awful and I could not watch it.

If I had a daughter or son, I dont know if I would let them watch the show or read the book until high school. I think the compounding of bullying the students are seen going through is something I wish I could show every teen, so they can see their actions do have consequences. But the rapes and suicides are kinda graphic for someone that young. 

Watch it and see what you think. I would watch episode 12 and 13 for sure before she does. And 11? I speed through the season because like Alex, I could not stop listening to Hannah, so I cant quite remember what episodes things happen in.

Edited April 5, 2017 by SnoGirl

[Ikki]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

My 12 year old mentioned to me yesterday that she had been watching the show.  I had heard the premise, but I haven't watched or read the book.  Is this appropriate for a pre-teen to watch?  It doesn't 'glamorize' suicide, does it?  

It is rated TV-MA. Personally, I could see a mature twelve year old reading the book, but maybe holding off on the show. As for glamorizing  suicide, in my view it doesn't, but I have seen some criticism saying that it does.

Has your child watched Degrassi? It can be a bit...ridiculous sometimes, but it deals with a lot of the same issues in a way that's generally less intense and may be more appropriate for a child her age.

[MV007]

On 3/15/2017 at 9:31 PM, sara416 said:

I loved this book. I loved that for the most part, all of the things that led to her suicide were small things piled up over time. Because that's real life! It's not always some major event that leads to suicidal thoughts, although of course sometimes it is. But all of the small things that just pile up and make your world seem hopeless...that's much more common. And I also loved that they NEVER said how she killed herself. Because that's not what the point is of course. I am a little nervous about the miniseries because of how much I liked the book, but it being multiple episodes and Jay Asher being involved gives me confidence that it will be good.

They did say how she killed herself.  She swallowed pills

[sara416]

Yep. I just reread the book and noticed that. I don't know why I forgot that detail. I think it was because Asher did such a good job with not glamorizing it or going into gory details. 

[MV007]

On 4/7/2017 at 8:55 PM, sara416 said:

Yep. I just reread the book and noticed that. I don't know why I forgot that detail. I think it was because Asher did such a good job with not glamorizing it or going into gory details. 

Yea, he definitely downplayed it.  It wouldn't have made a difference had he kept it a mystery.  At no point, while reading, did I care how she did it.

[MissMandy]

On 06/04/2017 at 3:03 AM, SnoGirl said:

Personally, I would not let your 12 year old watch it...but I also don't know your kid or your rules for her. I'm going to post the rest in spoilers just in case people havent finished the show.

  Reveal hidden contents

The show includes two rapes and the sucide by cutting her wrists in a tub, and then found by her parents. I was so uncomfortable watching all three, I had to fast forward. I have watched a lot of crazy shows, but I think it was because they're teens, it just was awful and I could not watch it.

If I had a daughter or son, I dont know if I would let them watch the show or read the book until high school. I think the compounding of bullying the students are seen going through is something I wish I could show every teen, so they can see their actions do have consequences. But the rapes and suicides are kinda graphic for someone that young. 

Watch it and see what you think. I would watch episode 12 and 13 for sure before she does. And 11? I speed through the season because like Alex, I could not stop listening to Hannah, so I cant quite remember what episodes things happen in.

I agree with this. I would watch the episodes first before your 12 year old sees it. I am 33 and generally am pretty desensitized but even I found some of the scenes hard to watch - especially the suicide scene - it was pretty brutal. I don't think it glamorized it however - but it distressing to watch

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, MissMandy said:

I agree with this. I would watch the episodes first before your 12 year old sees it. I am 33 and generally am pretty desensitized but even I found some of the scenes hard to watch - especially the suicide scene - it was pretty brutal. I don't think it glamorized it however - but it distressing to watch

I'd also add that, especially for a 12-year-old, you may not want them watching this show alone. It deals with suicide, rape, bullying, depression and self loathing in a fairly honest way. I'm in my 40s and not much really bothers me on TV, but I found the show hard to watch at times. Probably would be good for a teen to have someone to discuss it with while they went along.

Edited April 11, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[jeansheridan]

On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 8:39 PM, MissMandy said:

agree with this. I would watch the episodes first before your 12 year old sees it. I am 33 and generally am pretty desensitized but even I found some of the scenes hard to watch -

Plus there are two graphic rape scenes.

[jeansheridan]

I read the book over 10 years ago and I am rereading.  The show actually does follow the book fairly well except Clay powers through the tapes and has fewer discussions with Tony. Hannah is fairly melodramatic in the book too. And I still love Clay.

 I kind of wish the show had only been 10 hours.  Tighter.  It was cool to get to know the kids on the tapes.  Especially Alex.  And they gave the adults something to do.  But it felt stretched.

[MV007]

So, I just finished the show and I was a little caught by surprise with Bryce's rape of Hannah.  Am I misremembering the scene in the books?  I didn't think it played as that explicitly rapey in the book.  I remember she cried but she also made it clear that she didn't tell him no and she didn't push back and she didn't make an effort to stop him.  Like, I felt like she painted a picture where Bryce was a douche who took advantage of her but that this wasn't necessarily rape.  As opposed to the show where there is no ambiguity.  

Edited April 17, 2017 by MV007

[Ikki]

6 hours ago, MV007 said:

So, I just finished the show and I was a little caught by surprise with Bryce's rape of Hannah.  Am I misremembering the scene in the books?  I didn't think it played as that explicitly rapey in the book.  I remember she cried but she also made it clear that she didn't tell him no and she didn't push back and she didn't make an effort to stop him.  Like, I felt like she painted a picture where Bryce was a douche who took advantage of her but that this wasn't necessarily rape.  As opposed to the show where there is no ambiguity.  

Posting my thoughts on this over from another thread:

On 4/4/2017 at 11:41 AM, Ikki said:

I just read the part of the book with Hannah and Bryce for myself. (I hope this is fine to post here rather than the book thread; I'm going to talk about both a little bit.)

Basically: Hannah was raped. However, the book portrayal seems a lot less explicit to me than the show portrayal of the rape. If you first read the book, like I did, when you were younger and had less of an understanding of consent, you might not have seen it as rape. I don't think I did. I don't even think Hannah did.

What she says in the book is: "For everyone listening, let me be clear. I did not say no or push his hand away. All I did was turn my head, clench my teeth, and fight back tears. And he saw that. He even told me to relax." She talks about "giving in to [her] reputation" and such throughout, but she doesn't consent and repeatedly describes these clear non-verbals. I think she was very conflicted about how to classify what happened, and I think to some extent that was also the case on the show. Like, on the show I think she clearly knew that she hadn't wanted it (that she "didn't make a decision") and that it was wrong, but she may have been struggling to label it as rape, which is very common for survivors.

I think it's good that the show makes this more explicit. I remember after I read the books, I read some reviews that mentioned how nothing that happened to Hannah actually seemed like "that big a deal" or whatever. By the time I read the book, I had been sexually assaulted, but I didn't tell anyone and was actively trying to repress it, relabel it, deny it, whatever, and I read those reviews with a mindset of, "Okay, no big deal." (I remember one review in particular that said, "with the exception of what happened in chapter nine," which was the part with Jessica's rape, but what happened to Hannah wasn't seen the same way.)

I really liked the way the show portrayed Hannah's reasons. Like I think it made it both clear and understandable how much these things hurt her-- all of them, not just the ones someone might label as "major." As much as I liked the book, and I did really like the book, I think I like the show more.

[jeansheridan]

Also he was writing for a high school audience and even now YA authors try to be less graphic. But TV can't hide it.  Plus Bryce oozes creep. I wish he had been less obvious.

I miss the book's urgency on the show.  I liked Clay spending an awful night listening to them.  But shows and books are by necessity different.  The show expanded the book's universe in believable ways.  The author should be pleased.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just finished reading the book and I like the changes that were made. Sheri/Jenny was less awful on the show. Having Jeff be someone who Clay knew and liked gave his death more impact (and upped the number of people at the high school who weren't outright dicks by one). Even though we didn't get much about Ryan on the show, it was a lot more than we got in the books. Adding Tyler sending the photo of Courtney and Hannah made him more despicable (although to be honest, I already thought he was pretty bad just for being a stalker). Creating a dependent relationship between Justin and Bryce made Justin's reason for allowing Bryce to rape Jessica less straightforward than in the book.

Normally when a book is adapted into a tv show or movie, I feel like a lot of the original source material is left out due to time constraints but in this case, the opposite happened. Almost all of the characters were more fleshed out for the show so we got more back stories on them, more motivations, and they became more three dimensional.

The one thing that I felt was unnecessarily added was the I Know What You Did Last Summer-esque conspiracy where all of the other people on the tapes were always talking about the tapes and actively trying to discourage Clay from listening to the rest of them. I guess the show wanted to give these characters a reason to interact, but it got old after a few episodes. On the other hand, it did add more weight to the bullying going on and it showed that these kids were willing to continue to trash Hannah's reputation in order to cover up what they had done.

One change I liked was the order of the tapes which allowed Clay to give the tapes to Mr. Porter instead of sending them to Sheri/Jenny. Another change I liked was the addition of the parents' stories. I know it's a YA book and the show was intended for a teen audience, but I think that seeing the contrast between Hannah's mother in the present (desperate, in despair, and a shell of her former self) and in the flashbacks shows how much impact suicide has on the people left behind. I really felt for Hannah's parents. She took the time to record six and a half tapes to the people who wronged her, but she couldn't take ten minutes to write quick note to her parents? From her parents' point of view, she was fine and then she killed herself for no discernible reason, so not only are they devastated by her death but they have no idea why she did it.

[jeansheridan]

50 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Normally when a book is adapted into a tv show or movie, I feel like a lot of the original source material is left out due to time constraints but in this case, the opposite happened. Almost all of the characters were more fleshed out for the show so we got more back stories on them, more motivations, and they became more three dimensional.

Hey!  Nice to see you here.  And yes this is a rare time when a book gets expanded in favor of more character development.   When I reread the book I was surprised at how thinly developed the other characters were.  The book is Hannah driven and plot driven.  And I really disliked Hannah's voice in the book.  She is even more flip in the book.  

I like the addition of the parents and even the teachers. Justin's useless mother in particular helps you get why he is so insecure he doesn't stand up to Bryce.

I actually like Ryan too.  His behavior was more immature than actively cruel.  I could see him reevaluating his friendships and choices.  

Of course he was one of those guys there the night Hannah gets raped (a change from the book I think).  He must be thinking back after hearing the tapes, remembering her in the hot tub.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The one thing that I felt was unnecessarily added was the I Know What You Did Last Summer-esque conspiracy where all of the other people on the tapes were always talking about the tapes and actively trying to discourage Clay from listening to the rest of them. I guess the show wanted to give these characters a reason to interact, but it got old after a few episodes. On the other hand, it did add more weight to the bullying going on and it showed that these kids were willing to continue to trash Hannah's reputation in order to cover up what they had done.

Agreed with this. There is a downside to having thirteen episodes, and that is that there's a lot of filler that does have to be inserted in. In this case, there was a lot of repetition with interactions. Clay/Tony interactions on the show often had similar dialogue with similar endgoals. And, of course, the kids' interactions to get Clay to not pass the tapes along. However, it also somewhat benefited where it didn't in the book, and that is important. 

I'm going to be re-reading the book tomorrow so hopefully I'll start remembering a lot more. I do remember Clay's tape was nine or around there and he just passed along the tapes at the end without confronting anyone, so I wonder how well my memory serves. It's been five or six years since I've read the book. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed with this. There is a downside to having thirteen episodes, and that is that there's a lot of filler that does have to be inserted in. In this case, there was a lot of repetition with interactions. Clay/Tony interactions on the show often had similar dialogue with similar endgoals. And, of course, the kids' interactions to get Clay to not pass the tapes along. However, it also somewhat benefited where it didn't in the book, and that is important. 

I'm going to be re-reading the book tomorrow so hopefully I'll start remembering a lot more. I do remember Clay's tape was nine or around there and he just passed along the tapes at the end without confronting anyone, so I wonder how well my memory serves. It's been five or six years since I've read the book. 

I think the good side of needing filler was giving the characters a lot more back story. In the book, we got almost no background about any of the people Hannah wrote about, which kind of makes sense since the tapes were told from her more limited point of view. On the show, we got more of an omniscient POV so that we were able to see things that Hannah didn't personally witness, like Justin's home life or his very imbalanced friendship with Bryce.

Yes, Clay was #9 on the tapes in the book (it stuck out to me because Tony told Clay, "You're the ninth person I've followed," and at that point in the book, I had stopped paying attention to which tape/side was written on the first page of each chapter). He passed the tapes on to Sheri/Jenny without going to confront Bryce or Mr. Porter.

16 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I actually like Ryan too.  His behavior was more immature than actively cruel.  I could see him reevaluating his friendships and choices.  

Of course he was one of those guys there the night Hannah gets raped (a change from the book I think).  He must be thinking back after hearing the tapes, remembering her in the hot tub.

I'm 99% sure that by the time Hannah arrived at the second party (which was at Courtney's house in the book, not Bryce's), the only people left were Courtney and Bryce. Or they were the only people left in the hot tub when Hannah got in. I don't remember her mentioning anyone else but I'll have to go back and check to make sure. I may have also read through that section a little faster because I knew what was coming and just skipped right over Ryan's name!

[Last Time Lord]

I bought the book last night on Kindle. Still pretty early into it. 

I'm torn over if I think the show changing the order Alex and Jessica were in was a good change or not. 

The story of how Alex's list ruined Hannah and Jessica's friendship seems to flow more naturally in the book, but seeing their friendship get built up and then destroyed and then find out why in the following episode made it seem more tragic, to me. 

[kj4ever]

So all you that have read the book....Would you recommend after watching the show for people that didn't read but saw the series?

[MV007]

My recommendation would be to read the book then watch the show.  I found myself really looking forward to seeing how the relationships and characters expanded outside the few hundred pages of the book.  If you love reading then I would recommend the book because it's good.  But I thought the TV show was really well done so I don't think you're missing too much.

[htrjpnk]

Hi, I hope I didn't scare you with my title because of what the book talks about but we got an assignment in school which was acctualy just a title and it said: Clay Jensen and Hannah Baker. So basically I need to present those two characters to my class but the problem is that I am from Slovenia, that is in Europe, and I don't speek or read english very well so I came here to ask for help. The problem is that I need this done until Tuesday, so if anyone is interested please let me know.