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S08.E16: I Was Feeling Epic

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As to what Damon was doing all those years, I could see him as a stay at home parent while Dr. Gilbert-Salvatore was at work. A devoted husband, father & grandfather who honored his brother & his sacrifice by living right. I am sure he kept his end financially too based on the jewelry. The elaborate funeral statuary we saw briefly when Damon & Elena reunited -- I figured it was theirs. 

They didn`t show it much but I think the implication was always that all the "old" vamps are loaded, with legit financial investments that are being managed by some lawyer or accountant. We have Klaus donating 3 Million dollars here and I think that means nothing to him. Sure, it looked like the vamps pretty much breezed through life with compulsion and possibly killing but I remember Damon commenting on town functions and opening his check-book. 

Even gifting the Salvatore mansion in Stefan`s name. Such a beautiful and richly furnished old house must be worth a fortune by itself. So yeah, I don`t think him or Elena would have needed to work a day in their lifes but I assume he did something to, you know, pass the time. 

And if he actually did build the Gilbert house again, as Williamson said, I think that doesn`t mean all by himself. He would have had contractors. 

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13 hours ago, doram said:

I found that scene revolting.

Generations of the same African American family who had all suffered, most of them died violently at the service and even at the hands of this town, couldn't even frigging rest in peace because they needed to bail out their last member, another African American woman who had suffered and died violently for this town from her self-imposed suicide mission. 

And, to rub vinegar into the infested wound, it's the Generic White Dude whose family was responsible for the fire in the first place, that gets a badge and a bench and the possibility of being town mayor while Bonnie's and the Bennetts' efforts go completely unrecognised and unappreciated. 

I thought TVD couldn't possibly sink deeper than the mire of racist, anti-blackness it's been swimming in for the past 8 years but wow, it certainly went ahead to prove me wrong and live down to my worst expectations. 

Even though I do agree that tvd never even tried to give good storylines to poc and they most definitely mistreated Bonnie throughout the seasons, I didn't mind that part at all. Matt got the recognition because he was the Sheriff who made everyone aware of the "gas leak", orchestrated the evacuation process and even stayed there even though he knew he could die. That's what the humans of Mystic Falls are aware of, so it makes sense. I was actually really happy with Bonnie's ending because for 8 years, she was completely mistreated AND she wasn't even confident in herself even though she has been saving everybody since she was 16. At the end, we saw her finally being empowered and happy with herself, so I couldn't have asked for anything else (well, maybe not losing her love would be a nice bonus but whatever).

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Actually the cure works exactly like that. The cure and its magic continue working until someone extracts (through feeding or a syringe) some blood from the person with the cure. At that point, the person who previously had the cure in them starts rapidly aging to catch up to how old they'd be had they never been turned. That's why Bonnie's original plan had been for her to give Enzo the cure and for Damon to take the cure from Enzo when Bonnie and Enzo were old and near death. Yes, other vampires would hunt him. That's what happened with Katherine; Silas drained the cure from her.

Here's the problem with the show and the Delena endgame. Damon loved being a vampire so much so that he never developed any hobbies or pastimes during his nearly 200 years. Stefan went to college a couple of times, fought in wars, journaled, and hung out with the Originals. Damon traveled and ate people. Damon only wanted the cure so he could be with Elena.

What on earth was he going to do for the next 60 years? He's never really been interested in anything other than Stefan, Katherine, Elena, and briefly and inconsistently the Founders Council and his various best friends. Elena became a doctor and Damon did what? Helped Caroline and Jeremy run the Salvatore School of Supernatural Stupidity? Helped Ric categorize and archive things at the Armory? Become a Mystic Falls police officer? The only thing I could imagine him doing is running the Mystic Grille because he likes making pancakes and drinking.

Oh ok, the whole cure storyline was so weird that I keep forgetting all the details. But I agree that we should have seen Damon as a human. At least even though Stefan was always the victim, sacrificing himself and his happiness, he was a really well-rounded character. Even his last sacrifice kinda made sense and we even saw him finding peace with Lexi. Damon could have been an amazingly complex character and that's why I loved him and Delena in the beginning of the show. But then he turned into this one-dimensional, kinda mean, kinda sarcastic and supposedly misunderstood character. I get that they tried to give him a redemption story and I could buy into him being the better brother or whatever, but they kept telling us about it instead of showing it. That's why their ending didn't work imo.

10 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I think the less is more approach with regard to characters futures was so each of us could fill in the blanks for our favorites as we chose. I also think filming a wedding & family scene would have been tough on Ian, Ian's wife & Nina in a way JP & KW didn't want to be. I give them props for that if so. Nina did a good thing coming back. 

Ok I might sound mean, but that's not our problem. This is their job. If they can't handle the consequences, then they shouldn't date their co-stars. You can't change the storylines of the show just because it will be hard on your wife to see you having an emotional scene with your ex. They can't sacrifice their storylines and let the fans who were there and supported them for 8 years just because the actors are having their issues. I'm not even asking for a wedding, but I would have loved some scenes with everyone together having dinner or whatever, or something like Stelena got when they were shown being humans and married etc. This is a huge pet peeve of mine, because many shows have changed completely because the actors dated and broke up. I get that they are humans too so they can't always help it, but it's a job. And I don't even care about getting my ship as an endgame, I would love Stelena as an endgame as well, as long as they can sell it and it's a fitting ending with the storyline. What I can't stand is watching forced storylines because they couldn't get specific actors to work together.

44 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And if he actually did build the Gilbert house again, as Williamson said, I think that doesn`t mean all by himself. He would have had contractors. 

I hate it when producers have to fill in the gaps through interviews. It's one thing giving us more insight, telling us about things that aren't really necessary to know because as fans we always want more. But if you have to give important information through an interview, to explain gaps in your story, then you didn't do a good job. Thankfully, it wasn't that evident in tvd but those of you (if any :P) have watched pretty little liars, King is ALWAYS giving out interviews after each episode to explain important plot points because her storylines just don't make sense. That's bad writing.

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1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

Why does taking blood with the syringe removes the cure,but bleeding from an accident doesn't?

Funny rules

Contrivance. I just think of all of the things that Plec had never thought through. Can you lose the cure if you donate blood? I would imagine so. Would that apply to blood plasma too? What about dialysis? What about needing or donating bone marrow? Organ donation?

Though I imagine part of the reason why the cure isn't lost through bleeding is because someone in the writers room wondered if a woman could lose the cure during her period or childbirth, which would suck if the answer is yes.

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1 hour ago, dreamcatcher said:

Ok I might sound mean, but that's not our problem. This is their job. If they can't handle the consequences, then they shouldn't date their co-stars. You can't change the storylines of the show just because it will be hard on your wife to see you having an emotional scene with your ex. They can't sacrifice their storylines and let the fans who were there and supported them for 8 years just because the actors are having their issues. I'm not even asking for a wedding, but I would have loved some scenes with everyone together hing dinner or whatever, or something like Stelena got when they were shown being humans and married etc. This is a huge pet peeve of mine, because many shows have changed completely because the actors dated and broke up. I get that they are humans too so they can't always help it, but it's a job. And I don't even care about getting my ship as an endgame, I would love Stelena as an endgame as well, as long as they can sell it and it's a fitting ending with the storyline. What I can't stand is watching forced storylines because they couldn't get specific actors to work together.

Part of me understands if Julie and Kevin didn't want to write scenes that would make Ian and Nina feel uncomfortable, but I also agree that their main concern, especially in the SERIES FINALE should be the story. And I mean, really, did the writers think that two actors couldn't handle being professional for a few scenes? I felt like the few scenes we saw of Damon and Elena in this episode were very limited in physical contact to accommodate Ian and Nina (and Nikki). I'm not saying that I wanted an explicit sex scene or anything, but the sum total of their contact was: Damon hugging Katherine when he thought she was Elena, a brief peck on the lips when Damon and Elena were really reunited, Elena putting her arm through Damon's after they all left items for Stefan in front of the mausoleum, and then holding hands as they left the cemetery. Again, I'm not saying I needed a full on make out session but it just seemed very restrained for two people who are allegedly the loves of each other's lives and hadn't seen each other in years.

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I hate it when producers have to fill in the gaps through interviews. It's one thing giving us more insight, telling us about things that aren't really necessary to know because as fans we always want more. But if you have to give important information through an interview, to explain gaps in your story, then you didn't do a good job. Thankfully, it wasn't that evident in tvd but those of you (if any :P) have watched pretty little liars, King is ALWAYS giving out interviews after each episode to explain important plot points because her storylines just don't make sense. That's bad writing.

Ha, ITA. Everything should be told onscreen. If the writers and producers have to provide explanations, then they didn't do a very good job telling the story on the show. As a fellow PLL viewer, it drives me crazy when Marlene King explains things in tweets and interviews after an episode airs.  Same thing when they do this after Once Upon a Time. If it didn't happen on my screen during the episode, then it didn't happen.

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I think it is crap to say Stefan is guilty for all of Damon's crimes because he stuck a women in front of Damon while he was trying not to transition. Damon was the one who was most in love with Katherine and wanted to be turned. Plus, he was a grown ass man and Stefan was still a teenager.

However, my standard should be body count and not Damon's relative lack of remorse compared to Stefan. Did Stefan actually kill more people than Damon did? Stefan tried to be on the wagon, but he would eat whole towns.

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I never gave a crap about Damon and Elena, by themselves or together and even I was surprised at how meh they were in the series finale. It felt very restrained and limp - almost like a "let's just get through this". Although to be fair I felt that way about a few other parts of the show. The most life Nina had I felt in the series finale, was when she was playing Katherine. And I guess Stefan and Elena's goodbye was sweet but I was too busy being pissed at the moment that it was clear Stefan sacrificed himself, for me to really appreciate it.

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I now think with the timeline they did and how they did it, it was very tricky.

We have the initial Delena reunion pretty much right after Stefan`s death. Maybe it was a day or two. But if Damon had seemed "yay Elena, Stefan who?" in that moment, it would have looked horrible. Then they pretty immediately jumped to their afterlife. And Damon was mopey again because apparently he feared not seeing Stefan again. The pay-off for this was the emotional reunion of the brothers.

For the characters decades passed in between Stefan`s death and that afterlife but for the audience, it wasn`t even two minutes. They would have needed a scene in a flashforward, say 10 years post-Stefan and that could have been a "happy" moment in their supposedly long and happy lifes but it would have kinda broken the narrative flow they went for.

Even with Caroline, I know years have passed and I loved the little hint to Klaroline with the letter but I hadn`t even dried my tears of "poor Steroline, just married and now Stefan is dead" from one scene ago. 

But I do agree that I expect the actors to leave their personal feelings at the door. There are numerous anecdotes of shows where the leads had to play romantic interests and couldn`t stand each other. Willis/Shepperd anyone? They all managed to pull it off.

I would be interested to see this "20 minutes overtime" cut of the episode on DVD. Actually, I would have liked to see it on TV as the actual episode. Was there really no way to make at least an hour of screentime, if not a two-hour event? The network was willing to give them an extra hour to air a retrospective, I`m sure they would have been agreeable to a longer Finale.  

Edited by Aeryn13
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10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I believe that was his ghost talking to Elena. She didn't wake up in the school; she woke up in the Salvatore House. So much like Bonnie and Elena's limbo meeting, Stefan was passing through and got to talk to Elena before she went back to the land of the living and he moved on to the afterlife.

It never occurred to me that Elena hadn't woken up yet, but since we had that 1st scene with Bonnie & Elena it should have clicked.  This makes sense, thanks! :)

Edited by ByTor
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The other reason we know that Elena hadn't really woken up yet when she talked to Stefan at the high school is that AFTER that scene, Elena wakes up at the Salvatore mansion and Bonnie says that she finally figured out how to break Kai's spell. That means until Bonnie undid the spell, Elena was still asleep/unconscious/Sleeping Beauty.

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3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I never gave a crap about Damon and Elena, by themselves or together and even I was surprised at how meh they were in the series finale. It felt very restrained and limp - almost like a "let's just get through this". Although to be fair I felt that way about a few other parts of the show. The most life Nina had I felt in the series finale, was when she was playing Katherine. And I guess Stefan and Elena's goodbye was sweet but I was too busy being pissed at the moment that it was clear Stefan sacrificed himself, for me to really appreciate it.

Overall, there was actually less Elena than there was of Katherine. Now that was very surprising to me. They had Nina for the entire finale, yet they chose to spend a little more time with Katherine/Damon. Now, I always liked Katherine/Damon's dynamic so I was pleased to see their relationship come full circle from Damon's obsession since the pilot, but it's just curious how Elena was in...maybe four scenes total. Elena only had interactions with Stefan and Bonnie that were genuine and had significant dialogue. So in that sense, it was disappointing because Elena was a major part of the show but we didn't get the chance to see her in the finale. 

I do agree that Nina was off. Not only with the wig (I did note that though they tried, they couldn't get the wig right enough), but some of her acting choices were off. It's understandable, though, seeing as she hasn't played either character in about a year and a half. If she had a couple more episodes, then I think she would have gotten back into it. But she did try and almost did succeed. 

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I hated the way the show treated Bonnie and Caroline over the seasons, but I'm glad they were both moving forward with their lives at the end, and were strong women.  I'm wondering if when Bonnie dies she will be in her own little world with Enzo.  I can see her telling Enzo, "Yeah, they are dead, but you just know they will be getting into one screwed up situation after another.  We are better off on our own."

I did love the side eye Caroline gave Damon at Stefan's tomb.  It so said, "We are all so tired of hearing about how you are going to hell."

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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Part of me understands if Julie and Kevin didn't want to write scenes that would make Ian and Nina feel uncomfortable, but I also agree that their main concern, especially in the SERIES FINALE should be the story. And I mean, really, did the writers think that two actors couldn't handle being professional for a few scenes? I felt like the few scenes we saw of Damon and Elena in this episode were very limited in physical contact to accommodate Ian and Nina (and Nikki). I'm not saying that I wanted an explicit sex scene or anything, but the sum total of their contact was: Damon hugging Katherine when he thought she was Elena, a brief peck on the lips when Damon and Elena were really reunited, Elena putting her arm through Damon's after they all left items for Stefan in front of the mausoleum, and then holding hands as they left the cemetery. Again, I'm not saying I needed a full on make out session but it just seemed very restrained for two people who are allegedly the loves of each other's lives and hadn't seen each other in years.

This argument begins and ends with Julianna Margulies and The Good Wife. Nina and Ian should have been have been able to get over it especially as it was the finale, but The Good Wife finale proves that when a star wants to be a butthurt baby there is little the showrunners can do about it. Julianna and Ian were producers of their respective shows. Michelle and Robert King wanted a final Alicia and Kalinda scene, but they couldn't get Julianna to film it with Archie. The end result came off weird and stilted. I don't think that Nina and Ian would have pulled the diva nonsense that Julianna did, but I can also see Plec and Williamson preemptively pulling their punches because they don't want their last week of filming to be contentious on top of being a little awkward with Nina's return and really sad.

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42 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I do agree that Nina was off. Not only with the wig (I did note that though they tried, they couldn't get the wig right enough), but some of her acting choices were off. I

Maybe it was dependent on who she was with? I though the scene with Bonnie and the one with Stefan were great. The rest seemed off to me, which I will guess is the awkwardness of working with Ian.

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So are we expected to think Damon and Mystic Falls just lived happily ever after, after Stefan died? No other enemies from Damon came looking for him? Witches out to get something from Mystic Falls? Werewolves out for something? Nobody wanting the cure from Damon? 

The town that had supernatural event and crisis on a daily basis for 8 years was just fine after Damon became human? LOL 

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I'm another person who hates that when costars get together and then break up, it affects the show. It has happened on a few shows I watch. The OC is probably the one show where two cast members got together along with their characters and broke up and the people behind the scenes didn't change their story or limit their contact. I get that it's uncomfortable but it is their job and I'm not even a Damon and Elena shipper but yeah for two people they hadn't seen each other in quite some time and are in love, they weren't really showing it.

I also agree with others who are annoyed we have to keep reading interviews to fill out the missing pieces. Again.. maybe series finales should be two hours. If so much information is missing that it needs to be clarified in interviews after.. I don't know. 

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1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

This argument begins and ends with Julianna Margulies and The Good Wife. Nina and Ian should have been have been able to get over it especially as it was the finale, but The Good Wife finale proves that when a star wants to be a butthurt baby there is little the showrunners can do about it. Julianna and Ian were producers of their respective shows. Michelle and Robert King wanted a final Alicia and Kalinda scene, but they couldn't get Julianna to film it with Archie. The end result came off weird and stilted. I don't think that Nina and Ian would have pulled the diva nonsense that Julianna did, but I can also see Plec and Williamson preemptively pulling their punches because they don't want their last week of filming to be contentious on top of being a little awkward with Nina's return and really sad.

A much less epic example was the show Martin, where his co-star refused to be in any scene with him for the last season or so of the series. And because Martin Lawrence played about 18 different characters, that was a lot of scenes. Mostly, that was because Lawrence was crazy and not any underlying romance.

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55 minutes ago, doram said:

 

It is extremely problematic that this show wrote a story where white people have benefitted from the courage, strength and sacrifice of black women and refused to acknowledge it. 

These are writing choices. They chose to write the story this way. Stefan gets a glorious funeral and is heralded as a hero amongst the inner circle in the know. Matt gets a bench, a medal and the gratitude of the entire town.

Bonnie gets what?

Her life? Her freedom?

Wow, she only needed to nearly die (for the xth time) to get basic human rights. 

There are many ways they could have chosen to write that scene without blasting us with the visual of generations of African American women, most of which were literal slaves, acting as a human shield for the same people who had used them, abused them - even literally set them on fire --- and, to rub the irony in deep, getting zero credit or acknowledgement for it. 

I'm glad that Bonnie got her life at the end - but only because my expectations for her character were so low, I won't have been surprised if she had gone with the flames. 

I completely agree with you and yes, Bonnie was the "token black woman" and they NEVER acknowledged her sacrifices on the show. However, I liked that scene because I choose to intrepret it as the moment Bonnie finally became powerful by believing in herself and that's when the previous generations of her family came back to support her. For me it was more about family and them making sure that the baby of the family isn't going to die. Also, Bonnie did this for her friends and all the innocent people who could have been killed. If they hadn't abused her as a character so much for the past 8 years, this scene would have been way better so I get your frustration. However, I've stopped watching tvd after Nina left and I just kept reading recaps so it was easier for me to watch this episode as a stand-alone in a sense.

35 minutes ago, Artsda said:

So are we expected to think Damon and Mystic Falls just lived happily ever after, after Stefan died? No other enemies from Damon came looking for him? Witches out to get something from Mystic Falls? Werewolves out for something? Nobody wanting the cure from Damon? 

The town that had supernatural event and crisis on a daily basis for 8 years was just fine after Damon became human? LOL 

That's what I thought as well! They even stayed at Mystic Falls. And I mean, Elena is still the doppelganger so she is still a magnet for the supernatural-whatever they've said at some point during this 8 years. Unless Caroline was their body-guard or something. Which actually reminds me that Caroline had to leave her town at some time given that she wouldn't age... Meaning that not only did she lose everyone at some point, she had to live in exile in a sense. For some reason I think I'm more upset over Caroline's storyline tbh.

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3 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

 

That's what I thought as well! They even stayed at Mystic Falls. And I mean, Elena is still the doppelganger so she is still a magnet for the supernatural-whatever they've said at some point during this 8 years. Unless Caroline was their body-guard or something. Which actually reminds me that Caroline had to leave her town at some time given that she wouldn't age... Meaning that not only did she lose everyone at some point, she had to live in exile in a sense. For some reason I think I'm more upset over Caroline's storyline tbh.

I mean.. people are probably going to assume we are reading too much into it, but yeah. Mystic Falls was always a town filled with supernatural problems, the only difference now is that the vampires we know aren't vampires anymore, minus Caroline and yes Bonnie's a witch but she peaced  out of Mystic Falls to travel the world so they can't count on her always. Unless Bonnie did a spell that doesn't allow any supernatural forces into the town, except for people going to Carolinas new gifted school, it doesn't make sense.

I put too much thought into this. But I mean.. everyone is right. Mystic Falls being a supernatural force town was part of the premise of this show.

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31 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I mean.. people are probably going to assume we are reading too much into it, but yeah.

That's actually why in my initial post I said that I liked the episode... And yet here I am one day later still finding new weak points :P When I first watched it I was a crying mess and I did like the episode on the surface... And then I started thinking about what happened and I just have so many questions. It's not that it was an awful ending, because if you consider the fact that they had little time, that their female protagonist peaced out two seasons ago and they had to move on without her and then find a meaningful way to bring her back on the very last episode... They had a really tough job to do and I guess for the casual fan they delivered.

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Just now, dreamcatcher said:

That's actually why in my initial post I said that I liked the episode... And yet here I am one day later still finding new weak points :P When I first watched it I was a crying mess and I did like the episode on the surface... And then I started thinking about what happened and I just have so many questions. It's not that it was an awful ending, because if you consider the fact that they had little time, that their female protagonist peaced out two seasons ago and they had to move on without her and then find a meaningful way to bring her back on the very last episode... They had a really tough job to do and I guess for the casual fan they delivered.

I agree. It was a nice ending on the surface. And I could leave it at that. But i keep seeing interviews and articles from the people behind the scenes about information we didn't get and that makes me mad. I wish they had pushed for a two hour finale. 

To be fair as I said, I've been a casual viewer for most of this season. But I really loved the show when it started. 

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Yeah I guess I'm also a casual fan since I stopped watching 2 years ago... But for me the story did end at that point. Or to put it in a better way, it was like it was a different show. I know that people got invested in the whole "this has always been Defan's story", but it's not true. All promos were about the love triangle, Nina was the focus of every storyline and well most people ended up hating Elena exactly because she was always no1, always the victim (and somehow the hero) etc. Plus, I hated Caroline's pregnancy as a storyline SO MUCH. I just couldn't watch it.

Aaand I'm still watching re-runs of the first few seasons, which I still adore. TVD was my first "addiction" and the first time I felt like I was part of a fandom so even though I gave up on it, I'm still invested in these characters.

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TVD seemed like a copy of Twilight when I first saw it. Except, in this case, they killed off Edward.

The show cheapened death by bringing back people from the dead and accepting Damon's thing where he never feels remorse for killing. Once a season, he'd have a sad and lie in the middle of the road for some poor victim.

The show fell into the Buffy trap, having a "big bad" then adding filler to hit all the sweeps periods with good material. Characters like Bonnie got shorted, even though they were willing to stay. But it was plain to see that Damon was always going to get the happy ending. It's just a surprise that Stefan was killed off to add drama.

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I'm still processing how I feel about this episode and I admit to being torn. For me, Nina's return was anti-climactic and agree with those who felt her acting was off. It's hard to pin point why but I put it down to her being away from the show for too long. Her 'Katherine' was awful and cringey and as Elena she just didn't have the emotion I was expecting except in her scenes with Bonnie. 

As a DE fan I was underwhelmed with those scenes, especially the real reunion scenes but I guess the context of the reunion played a huge part in that. After all they were at Stefan's funeral so I understand that an emotional reunion with swelling music and beautiful passionate kisses were not appropriate at the time but I can't help but be annoyed that the writers chose this moment to reunite them especially given the fake out reunion earlier which was way better from an emotional POV. It was a long awaited reunion and should have had more impact but it was a bit of a lead balloon tbh. 

Talking of lead balloons, I was not pleased with how they handled the conclusion of the DE at all. Off screen does not count especially given many of the couples were give loads of screen time in the previous episode to lament their relationships. They did not exchange one single word and considering the episode was heavily promoted with the DE reunion, I can't help but feel a little used.

I was also disappointed with how Damon was neglected in this one. He was isolated in scenes with Katherine and Stefan for pretty much the entire episode. Dalaric got no screen time at all and neither did Bamon. No phonecalls  no nothing. 

In general the theme was peace in the afterlife. I'm not sure I liked the tone of that or the message it sent. Surely peace and happiness should come from living life. Grief is part of life, sure but life shouldn't be something you have to get through to find true peace. Worry about what will happen to you after death shouldn't plague your life and peace in death shouldn't be the goal to aspire too, living should be the goal IMO.

So on to the positives. The Defan scenes were gorgeous. I was heartbroken when Damon compelled Stefan and I was equally heartbroken when Stefan turned the tables and heroically took one for the team. Throughout the entire series run he has been given the title of hero and he finally earned it. It made sense to me and for all those who are angry that Stefan was the one to die I will say this; his hero hair needed to be earned and he lived up to the title that was afforded him. He did it for Damon but more than that he did it for the town and he did it for his own redemption. He owed the town that because he brought Hell on earth and he redeemed himself by being a part of a plan that destroyed the threat. It was a fitting end end to his story and i'm glad he found what he had been searching for his entire existence. He found his balls finally and he committed himself, bravo.

Damon found his redemption in his humanity. His love and willingness to sacrifice himself for those he loves was his redemption. Damon was driven by love in all it's forms and he found his redemption in being able to forgive Stefan for stripping him of his humanity when he forced him to turn there by denying him peace in a human death that he had chosen for himself and in his selfless love for Elena. He was the better man for her, the right choice and I loved that Stefan finally acknowledged that even if he couldn't acknowledge that to Damon directly.

Bonnie Bennett was awesome. Her fighting the hell fire alone then gradually gaining strength from Enzo then Grams followed by all her ancestors gave me goosebumps and all the feels. I continued my cry-fest with a passion. 

Elena singling out Stefan for saving her again and thanking him via her diary was lovely but what about Bonnie? I get that she was grateful for Stefan getting her out of her funk when her parents died but it was Bonnie who ultimately saved her life this time and the town. 

Matt evacuating the town under the pretense of yet another gas leak was funny, as was the sardonic "again" he tacked on to end of the conversation.

However the Donovans were over used again. Gah! Just why? Did anyone really care THAT much to see Peter Maxwell and Vikki Donovan hug it out? I didn't, I was just watching the clock tick down until they were off my screen. 

All in all it was ok. We did get a sense of how our beloved  characters journey' ended and can live with that even if the execution of it all was subject to criticism.

Edited by miss-vanilla

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I think the over focus on how great the afterlife is yada yada was just the writers trying to gloss over the fact that Stefan got completely fucked over while yet again Damon gets everything. 

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I do think the finale hit some good feels... and I know they wanted to go for dramatic and ultimately someone had to die -except it's a TV show, so someone didn't have to die... there could have been another magical McGuffin that saved everybody/brought people back etc... So it annoys me that we get the 'hero' sacrifice from a character who's whole deal was trying to do the right thing and repent (even if fell big time off the rails a bunch) and he just up and dies. I don't really have a horse in the love triangle race, since that ship sailed long, long ago but I always liked the Stefan character, just as I liked the Damon character, and I would have been far more satisfied with plot holes galore if everyone had gotten an actually happy ending, not some bullshit they are happy in the afterlife/ they were ready to die ending (like another vampire show with the stupid love triangle and broody trying to be a good guy who failed a lot at that but still had to die to end the series for bullshit reasons... whoops.. guess that's still a sore spot)

I actually didn't care all that much that Nina was back, but like I said above my caring about the Elena story has been over for a long time. I'm glad Bonnie didn't have to die and that she has her magic back. I think the set up for her to "live her life" was a good one at least to start... Not just Stefan's ending sucked for him, but also for Caroline... she got her big wedding and her husband for a matter of hours and had to say goodbye. I'm glad she does have the girls and the school venture, you know she will make that school successful no matter what ;)

Maybe the magic school will help keep Mystic falls safe from other pissed off people... though I do think Katherine was the root of many of their problems :P I did enjoy her getting stabbed repeatedly this episode.

But anyway.. I'm glad it's over because it has been a mess for the last many seasons...

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I think it was a pretty satisfying ending.  I'm guessing that both Elena and Damon grew old together and then died, hence why she saw her family, and Damon with Stefan.  This one was a real tearjerker.

Thank you TVD for entertaining us for eight years.  It may have been a bumpy ride, but I always looked forward to each episode.

At least we still have The Originals.

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16 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

Yeah I guess I'm also a casual fan since I stopped watching 2 years ago... But for me the story did end at that point. Or to put it in a better way, it was like it was a different show. I know that people got invested in the whole "this has always been Defan's story", but it's not true. All promos were about the love triangle, Nina was the focus of every storyline and well most people ended up hating Elena exactly because she was always no1, always the victim (and somehow the hero) etc. Plus, I hated Caroline's pregnancy as a storyline SO MUCH. I just couldn't watch it.

Aaand I'm still watching re-runs of the first few seasons, which I still adore. TVD was my first "addiction" and the first time I felt like I was part of a fandom so even though I gave up on it, I'm still invested in these characters.

Right..we're supposed to believe that the brothers were the center of the show when Elena was in fact the heart and soul of the show.Till Nina left.The triangle was dead,so they focused on the brothers but ended it on family.not defan.Everyone saw again their lost loved ones,and I was way ,ore moved by Elena reuniting with her family then Damon with Stefan.That scene didn't move me,maybe because we didn't get to see Damon miss his brother alike Elena did her whole family

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On 3/12/2017 at 1:06 PM, Artsda said:

So are we expected to think Damon and Mystic Falls just lived happily ever after, after Stefan died? No other enemies from Damon came looking for him? Witches out to get something from Mystic Falls? Werewolves out for something? Nobody wanting the cure from Damon? 

The town that had supernatural event and crisis on a daily basis for 8 years was just fine after Damon became human? LOL 

Also, wouldn't all the compulsion that Damon did as a vampire wear off, like Stefan's did when he turned human?

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Also, wouldn't all the compulsion that Damon did as a vampire wear off, like Stefan's did when he turned human?

Absolutely. I guess he impulsively killed more people than compel them? Or did Caroline have to go on another fix-it-trip for her brother-in-law?

I think the show wanted to be nostalgic in the end with going back to/living out their life in Mystic Falls. And okay, in that flashback to Elena and Damon`s first meeting, before Wickery Bridge, they had her say that nothing bad ever happened in Mystic Falls. Like, not even 5 Million "animal attacks"? Now it could be just that the teenagers were shielded and/or self-involved enough to not notice or that the town really were rather quiet before the Salvatores showed, up, then Katherine, then Klaus and then everyone under the sun.

But it`s a bit silly to basically go "nothing interesting happened there before our story started, or rather nothing in the period between the flashback story and the current story... and now that our story finished, the most spectacular thing happening is Matt Donovan getting a bench".

Aww man, I was relatively satisfied with the Finale emotionally while it aired. There was just enough nostalgia to tug at the heartstrings. But the more you think about the logistics of it, the more it falls apart. Still, I do not consider it one of those Series Finales that fall flat on their faces. For how bad Seasons 7 and 8 were overall, I still believe they pulled off a better conclusion to the series than expected. At least for me. 

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21 hours ago, miss-vanilla said:

As a DE fan I was underwhelmed with those scenes, especially the real reunion scenes but I guess the context of the reunion played a huge part in that. After all they were at Stefan's funeral so I understand that an emotional reunion with swelling music and beautiful passionate kisses were not appropriate at the time but I can't help but be annoyed that the writers chose this moment to reunite them especially given the fake out reunion earlier which was way better from an emotional POV. It was a long awaited reunion and should have had more impact but it was a bit of a lead balloon tbh. 

In general the theme was peace in the afterlife. I'm not sure I liked the tone of that or the message it sent. Surely peace and happiness should come from living life. Grief is part of life, sure but life shouldn't be something you have to get through to find true peace. Worry about what will happen to you after death shouldn't plague your life and peace in death shouldn't be the goal to aspire too, living should be the goal IMO.

I get that the context was different than the initial fake reunion, but Damon lacked emotion completely. Btw I'm not sure if it was Stefan's funeral or if it was some time after his death like a memorial or something, because I can't believe Bonnie managed to wake Elena up the very next day. But anyway whether it was the funeral or not, I would think that Damon would have been overwhelmed by gried and sadness at that moment. We could even get some sort of a breakdown, Damon crying, SOMETHING to prove that Damon isn't that cold selfish bastard anymore.

And I agree about the whole peace in the afterlife theme. That's why I liked Bonnie's conclusion more than any other storyline: while we didn't get into specifics, her whole story was about her living her life to the fullest before getting to reunite with the love of her life. That was the only healthy reaction to this whole mess. Even Delena were like "I can't wait to die and see Stefan again!!!!!!!:.

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3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Absolutely. I guess he impulsively killed more people than compel them? Or did Caroline have to go on another fix-it-trip for her brother-in-law?

I think the show wanted to be nostalgic in the end with going back to/living out their life in Mystic Falls. And okay, in that flashback to Elena and Damon`s first meeting, before Wickery Bridge, they had her say that nothing bad ever happened in Mystic Falls. Like, not even 5 Million "animal attacks"? Now it could be just that the teenagers were shielded and/or self-involved enough to not notice or that the town really were rather quiet before the Salvatores showed, up, then Katherine, then Klaus and then everyone under the sun.

But it`s a bit silly to basically go "nothing interesting happened there before our story started, or rather nothing in the period between the flashback story and the current story... and now that our story finished, the most spectacular thing happening is Matt Donovan getting a bench".

Aww man, I was relatively satisfied with the Finale emotionally while it aired. There was just enough nostalgia to tug at the heartstrings. But the more you think about the logistics of it, the more it falls apart. Still, I do not consider it one of those Series Finales that fall flat on their faces. For how bad Seasons 7 and 8 were overall, I still believe they pulled off a better conclusion to the series than expected. At least for me. 

It seemed like Damon compelled people before he killed them or occasionally to make them go away. He didn't really care about giving people alternate memories.

I think before Damon and Stefan showed up in Mystic Falls, there was a relative period of calm, like the 15 or so years since Damon killed Zach's wife at the boarding house.

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Loved seeing Tiki's grandpa in this episode! My fiancee somewhat bizarrely and abruptly decided that she wanted to watch both TVD and PLL now that they're both in the final season, so I pretty much just saw him telling Elena that he last saw Stefan in the 50s like last week, lol. I would have liked it if they could have gotten Tiki back as well, but that's show biz.

I'm basically of two minds on the Bennett thing, and I'm torn between the two perspectives. I do think Bonnie's character has been the biggest consistent issue in the series, and then this was basically a distilled version of every problem everyone has had with the portrayal of POCs on this show in one scene, but there's still something to be said for the visual of these amazing black women saving everyone. Yes, the characters in the story don't know what happened, but the audience does.

I thought I was going to find all the "ironic echoes" in this episode tedious and manipulative, but then they were used kind of perfectly. The only one that didn't quite land for me was Katherine saying "Hello, brothers," but it was absolutely aced by the Defan exchange later. And I can't express how glad I was that they kept the guest star list in the end credits so they wouldn't spoil all the returning ghosts.

This kind of blows Buffy's finale out of the water for me, honestly, despite hitting a lot of the same notes. And Matt getting a bench (along with his enthusiasm over getting a bench) is oddly fitting.

I'll give them this one. I guess if there's a spinoff, I'll be watching...as long as Julie Plec isn't involved.

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This kind of blows Buffy's finale out of the water for me, honestly, despite hitting a lot of the same notes.

As much as I loved Buffy, the series finale (and S7 in general) were not great. As I said earlier, for me the purpose of a finale is to tie up loose ends and give the viewers closure and I came away from the Buffy finale disappointed. TVD's series finale was kind of a mess, but I got emotional closure with all of the characters (despite the plot holes and other nonsensical things that happened).

I am glad that Bonnie decided to leave Mystic Falls. Not only should she get to escape being the one who always sacrifices herself to save the others, but I just wanted to see someone get the hell out of that town. The older characters got to have other adventures and life experiences outside of Mystic Falls (Stefan, Damon, Alaric, hell, even Matt went to Europe with Rebekah after graduation). I have nothing against small towns, but there is a whole world out there to see so I was really glad that Bonnie decided to travel and experience things besides death and pain and sacrifice.

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I liked the finale but I wish it would have been even 30 mins longer. Why TPTB chose to make an hour long interview show is beyond me. 30 mins for that would have been sufficient and then an hour and half finale would have been more satisfying to me considering all the cuts they had to make.

As a Delena fan I didn't have a problem with the reunion nor IS or ND acting. I think why it seemed kind of understated is as KW said a lot of the future scenes got cut so I'm sure there was more emotion in their engagement or future scenes when Stefan had been dead a while that got cut. I kind of took the scene by the crypt when Elena was writing in her diary a take on the old fairy tale  troupe "and they lived happily ever after" so you can imagine in your mind the future you wanted them to have. I was okay with that.

When Elena first woke up in Damon's bed and went to the crypt I thought Damon did a good job with his facial expression to show his emotion of seeing Elena again. It was like a bittersweet little smile.(I'm so glad to get to be with you as a human but my brother is dead) And then they did run into each others arms and kiss. It seemed appropriate to me.

The one thing I wish they would have splurged on was aging make-up. I do think it made the afterlife a little confusing for Damon and Elena to still be young when it was implied they died as elderly people. Everyone they showed in the afterlife was the age they were when they died so making Damon and Elena young was confusing. I think they should have been aged. When Elena and Damon were walking holding hands then he disappeared and she was reunited with her family I took that to mean she died before him then he died a little later and got to see Stefan. One would assume that they had children and so I choose to believe they all end up getting to see each other in the end and when their children die all of Elena's family and Damon and Stefan would all be together in the afterlife:)

I found it a little weird that they had Stefan find Elena's body at the school trapped and have Damon running around getting chased by Katherine. Katherine was always all about Stefan. I thought that was a little backwards. I thought Damon should have found Stefan with Katherine and compelled him to leave rather than Stefan finding Damon there. I also found it a little odd everyone was worried about Damon staying with Elena's body and dying with her. They all knew how much he loved her and if they died together it would be fitting so I didn't know why it bothered them all so much.

I thought the whole destroying hell with fire was ridiculous. It made no sense I mean hell is perpetual fire how would more fire destroy hell? They should have had Bonnie and the Bennett witches turn the fire to ice and destroy hell with ice that would have made more sense.

I hope since "The Salvatore home for Exceptional Children" is for supernatural children that Bonnie or some other witch would spell Mystic Falls to keep dangerous big bads out and that is why Damon would be safe there with the cure.

In the end I feel everyone got gypped a little except for Elena. I mean even Damon while he might have gotten more than he deserved had to lose his brother to get his happy ending. Only Elena got everything she ever wanted which I kind of think was the whole purpose of the show from the beginning. It was ALWAYS about Elena.

Farewell TVD!

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And then they did run into each others arms and kiss. It seemed appropriate to me.

That would have been fine if they hadn`t done a close-up of the kiss. If for whatever reason the actors don`t want to kiss and go for the fake "kiss on the chin" routine, then, for God`s sakes, don`t draw attention to it with a close-up. And if they really wanted one, Plec as the director should have insisted on a "real" kiss in terms of looking real. Either one would have been fine. 

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The one thing I wish they would have splurged on was aging make-up. I do think it made the afterlife a little confusing for Damon and Elena to still be young when it was implied they died as elderly people. 

Yes, that was kind of odd. I get being young and hot (if you want to) in the afterlife but not showing any aging progression made it confusing. Elena narrated how they had "grown old together" and we still saw young Nina Dobrev during the scene. Maybe they didn`t want to ruin the illusion but since their characters were not vamps anymore, they simply wouldn`t be eternally young and beautiful. 

I can use my imagination for having kids and whatnot but the final bits kinda looked like people stayed the same as we knew them from the show, vamps or not.

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I thought the whole destroying hell with fire was ridiculous. It made no sense I mean hell is perpetual fire how would more fire destroy hell?

I didn`t understand that either. It was pretty much all handwaved to just wrap up this Season 8 plot about hell. Which, okay, fine, I thought the plot was stupid but for example the destruction of the Other Side made sense.

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I think the destruction of Hell also destroyed Katherine as its keeper? That's the explanation I have for why Stefan and Vicki made it to heaven despite being hit in the face with hellfire. I think it was the focused concussive force of it that was the key; bringing it through the bell and then aiming it back at Katherine seemed to be what made it effective. Maybe this is a discussion better had in the World thread.

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7 hours ago, doram said:

Made even more important because these two were once immortal vampires that had turned human. To see them in death looking like... immortal vampires ... completely missed the point. 

I also - on reflection - realized that Damon out-lived Elena. 

Well, the universe will end when Damon dies, so that makes sense. The first person he goes to is his true love, Stefan.

I would have enjoyed it more if Lexi was also there to kick him in the crotch.

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On 3/10/2017 at 10:13 PM, Dust Bunny said:

I haven't watched this show in 2 years, but I had to watch the finale.

That's one of the most satisfying series finales I've ever seen. And my face may or may not be streaked in tears.

This show was far from perfect. There were lots of stupid McGuffins and plots pulled out of thin air.

But this show shined in the relationships, especially family and friends. The finale captured that perfectly.

Nicely done.

I stopped watching a couple of years ago, too, so I don't know what's happened since, and I agree re: relationships with family and friends. That's why I kept watching (I had no interest in the love triangle). I liked seeing Elena reunited with her family, and Damon and Stefan as the last scene. 

On 3/11/2017 at 9:18 AM, KatWay said:

I'm sorry but "happy in afterlife" is just a cop-out. At the end of the day, everyone achieves that eventually (unless you burn in hell I guess) and it's not really LIFE. At the end of the day Damon got to live out his human life with his loved ones and Stefan did not. I don't care if they all reunited in afterlife, Stefan never got to grow old and experience humanity in any way it counted, he didn't even get to spend time with his wife/love of HIS life, just so that Damon could get everything.

I don't care how much they pushed Defan and the brotherly bond (which somehow felt like a retcon with the show's endless emphasis on romance), he still got screwed over so Delena could have a happy ending. I should've seen it coming but the spoilers had me mildly optimistic I guess.

When I figured out that Stefan had married Caroline (I haven't been watching), I was bothered that he wouldn't be with his family. I remember the brothers always coming together, though, so that wasn't unexpected. Stefan also turned Damon into a vampire, didn't he? That's why Damon was so pissed with him in the first place. 

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Stefan also turned Damon into a vampire, didn't he? That's why Damon was so pissed with him in the first place. 

And every time this came up I was like, am I supposed to care about that, considering Damon's the one who actively chose to become a vampire fully knowing what it entailed (and only backed out because he didn't want to live without Katherine) while Stefan more or less stumbled into it entirely against his will.

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I have always believed our loved ones appear in Heaven as they do at the happiest time in their lives. That is at first how I saw Elena & Damon's youthful appearance -- likely when they were new parents or newly married, whichever came first (Plec interview). I also figured the show wanted to leave us with the image of Damon/IS & Elena/ND as we knew them -- especially as they were reuniting in those final scenes with people who died young -- I realize the irony of that statement in Stefan's case.

It took me a bit to glean Elena died first as doram noted above. Elena at the end sitting by her statue from the Damon & Elena reunion scene -- minus the one beside -- made me think that is when Damon joined her having gone with her as far as he could into the light & then dying not long after. I thought it was odd a young woman was reflecting on her long life. I realized Elena was waiting there for Damon & simultaneously thanking Stefan for making her "Once Upon A Time..." happen.

As a Damon & Elena fan, the ending was largely as I wanted & I knew all the problems with Damon & his many wrongdoings as a vampire. I suppose I selectively chose what I cared about based upon what I liked. I didn't blame Stefan for turning Damon really. I saw the role Damon played in getting them to vampire life, but as I was slanted toward Damon, I always said it was Stefan that gave Damon that final push that made him actually turn & as I learned of Damon's history via the show's admittedly uneven storytelling, I understood Damon's desperation and need for love. I suspect Plec did much the same based on the ending as I know the ending was not Williamson's preference. Again per the Plec interview, how else is Jeremy "probably" giving Elena away -- even if he does give Damon the finger in the process -- at her wedding to the man who killed him? I suppose this is where it helps I was gone for a couple years & only returned for the very end. I got my ending & I am able to choose what I remember about how the show got me there. Much harder for those who did not get the ending they hoped for...

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Again per the Plec interview, how else is Jeremy "probably" giving Elena away -- even if he does give Damon the finger in the process -- at her wedding to the man who killed him?

While I wouldn`t say Damon and Jeremy ever really bonded on the show, they had a couple of "friendly" or at least civil interactions after the neck snap in Season 2 and the nearly killing thing in Season 5. That is simply how this show rolled and not just regarding Damon. Characters can be unbelievably blasé over what others did to them. Enzo was quasi-enemy in Season 6 and became apparently one of their best and brightest after dating Bonnie. It was a bit like Buffy, date one of the core group and you`re "in", no matter your past.

So I don`t think Jeremy would particularly have a problem walking Elena down the aisle in such a wedding. And, giving Damon the finger secretely, would be a nice touch.  

I think the episode itelf wasn`t very well written. For example, what did Katherine actually dò? She certainly wasn`t a myth or a legend in the Finale. In the end, I think she was brought back like all the other characters from the past were brought back. To elicit the nostalgia. Katherine was arguably the biggest villain in terms of being so pivotal to the show. And I admit it was fitting that a Salvatore bro killed her. Would have been fine with either Stefan or Damon.

Then the ending felt very rushed in terms of "what did they do in life?" to get to the happiest of all afterlifes. Of course that meant the episode and thus the show ended on a very peaceful note. Everyone lived happily ever after. At least after death. And they certainly injected a huge dose of nostalgia into the proceedings with all the cameos. It`s a bit of a cheat or emotional manipulation but, even knowing that, it worked for me.     

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8 hours ago, KatWay said:

And every time this came up I was like, am I supposed to care about that, considering Damon's the one who actively chose to become a vampire fully knowing what it entailed (and only backed out because he didn't want to live without Katherine) while Stefan more or less stumbled into it entirely against his will.

Stefan made the mistake of going back to his father as a "good" vampire and then started ripping. The toxic part about the Salvatore relationship is that Damon wants to be with Stefan. He'll try to save him whenever he's in trouble, but he'll never let Stefan find his own happiness. Stefan alternates between hanging around with Damon to wanting to be out of his life. Damon is all about controlling everyone and every situation while Stefan is constantly trying to maintain self-control.

The finale weirdly proved that Damon can only be happy when Stefan is gone. Hopefully, Elena isn't a Stefan substitute. Otherwise, Damon and Elena could end up a murder-suicide, where Damon killed her then himself.

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11 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

So I don`t think Jeremy would particularly have a problem walking Elena down the aisle in such a wedding. And, giving Damon the finger secretely, would be a nice touch.  

Ha, I don't think it would be secretly. I can totally picture Jeremy walking her down the aisle, turning to Damon, giving him the finger, and then sitting down.

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So I have multiple questions.  I know I should just let them go but maybe, just maybe there's a logical explanation:

1). Did Katherine have to be IN hell when the hell fire bounced back on itself or standing in the path of the hell fire?  Either way, why did Stefan or Damon have to die with her?  Couldn't they have stabbed her right as the fire was coming and left her either in hell or unconscious in its path?  Out of all the mcguffins/deux ex machina/random miracles they've pulled out over the years, was this just as excuse to really kill Stefan?

2). Was hell destroyed?  What about the people there like poor Georgie?  Are we to assume the people we like got out when the bell started ringing but everyone else went poof?

3.  So the Other Side was destroyed but the peaceful afterlife was there all along for people that found peace (Grams, Lexi, etc) and those who sneaked out of hell?  Did the Other Side people make it to heaven?  Where are Anna and Pearl?

4.  Did Stefan and Damon really achieve redemption or just slipped out of hell before it imploded? 

 5.So poor Caroline may never see her loved ones again?  Can Bonnie merge poor lonely Enzo's afterlife with the Mystic Falls after party?  

6.  Seline and Sybil went up in flames, right?  It seems like no one ever really dies for real.  What about good old Silas.  How good do you have to be to achieve "peace"?  Hopefully not the inverse of hell's bad because that bar was super low.  And hopefully not just someone we know and like.

As a devout Presbyterian I'm glad I'm spending so much time contemplating an afterlife full of eternally beautiful people in an idyllic little town full of former witcches and vampires.  ?

Maybe another viewing will clear all this up and it will all make sense!  :-)

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Did Katherine have to be IN hell when the hell fire bounced back on itself or standing in the path of the hell fire?

What amused/annoyed me about this plot point is that they had no way of knowing if this was true because it's not like they were reading this out of the How to Destroy a Hell Dimension handbook.

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On 3/10/2017 at 10:13 PM, Dust Bunny said:

This show was far from perfect. There were lots of stupid McGuffins and plots pulled out of thin air.

But this show shined in the relationships, especially family and friends. The finale captured that perfectly.

 

You're absolutely correct. The writers tended to repeat themselves, a lot. There were many eye rolling plot devices. But, you always cared about the characters.

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On 3/15/2017 at 2:15 PM, KatWay said:

And every time this came up I was like, am I supposed to care about that, considering Damon's the one who actively chose to become a vampire fully knowing what it entailed (and only backed out because he didn't want to live without Katherine) while Stefan more or less stumbled into it entirely against his will.

I don't care either way. I was only asking a question.

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I don't care either way. I was only asking a question.

Oh I know, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything! I'm just bitter because despite the years of people claiming the show gave Stefan a pass over Damon, actually Stefan's crimes were brought up far more often or treated with consequences than Damon's ever were. And look how it ended - Stefan had to pay for his crimes to earn his redemption. Damon...lives happily ever after and gets everything he ever wanted. People always talked about Stefan's ripper binges, the whole turning incident, then Enzo was brought up every five minutes in the last few eps. Meanwhile nobody ever even tried to call out Damon for his role in the "becoming vampires" mess. What they showed us (Damon helping Katherine kill people, knowing she was compelling Stefan and even gloating about it cause it made his & Katherine's love "real") and what they told us we were supposed to take from those scenes (i.e. feel sorry for poor Damon who just wanted to feel loved and was forced into vampire life by his naive younger brother who'll forever be guilty) just didn't match up for me at all.

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That's always been the tag line of the show - the better guys lose to the woobies because they're not as snarky and the teenage fan girls prefer them. 

Stefan killed lots of people and wah he's awful! Has to pay! Must earn redemption! Whereas Damon used Caroline as a play thing in season one then turned Vicki, killed Lexi, Tyler and a boatload of other characters but it's ok because he has feelings about it (feelings that are more about his man pain then anything he actually did but whatever the woobie feels). 

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