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S21.E10: Week 10/S21.E11: The Women Tell All

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Well it depends on how long the pairing lasts but the whole season takes 13 weeks. I've heard the rehearsals can be intense and exhausting - about 5 hours to 7 hours and then there are other things to do because it's a television show. For example, the ITM's, corny bits for whatever is the theme of that week's show, camera blocking, etc. So it can take up a lot of time but every season there are people on there with other full time commitments that are making it work. 

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14 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

If this is, indeed, how he plans on earning his living, then he needs to keep himself in the public eye.

This is how he's been earning his living for the past couple of years, and now that he's starting a men's grooming products business, he needs to stay in the public eye for the business to have any chance of succeeding. He'll be hawking the products over social media, and if he stops doing reality TV, he won't have nearly as many followers.

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Aren't the leads (Bachelor and Bachelorettes) paid for their seasons? Not sure how much Nick got for his.  I don't watch DWTS, so not sure how that works, although I'd imagine you make more money the longer you stay.  Sean did DWTS as well, and is married to Catherine. So I don't think doing the show is necessarily an indicator of not being serious about the F1.  

But going into the season, I never believed Nick was serious about finding someone. He was supposedly still seeing the woman (Jennifer?) from Bachelor in Paradise until right before the announcement.  Any other contestant has gotten the side-eye when it was revealed they allegedly dumped someone just before coming on the show. 

3 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Now I may give her a pass with a slight side eye if she shows up on BIP but the true test of whether or not she's just basically fame whoring and wasn't really serious is if she continually shows up on the franchise or other reality shows. Kind of like....Nick.

And hey, you can still like Raven if she becomes a four-peater.  Nothing wrong with that.  I have no issues with Raven, and to an earlier point you made, she seemed to get along with everyone in the house.  Heck, Rachel even gave her a note before leaving, right?  I don't think Nick is genuine, either, so I'm perfectly okay if these women are pretending for the sake of the show. I didn't watch the WTA, but most seem annoyed by Liz when she's more or less Nick in female form, save the multiple appearances.  *shrug* 

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1 minute ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I didn't watch the WTA, but most seem annoyed by Liz when she's more or less Nick in female form, save the multiple appearances.  *shrug* 

The difference for me with Liz is that she was playing Nick. She went on the show not telling him she was, after not speaking to him or reaching out to him for months then, when he looked confused, didn't make any effort to say they knew each other and laughed about tricking him. When Nick showed up on Kaitlyn's season they had discussed it before hand, they had been in contact fairly regularly. He didn't surprise her. It's not that Liz is any more or less fame whorey, I just hated the way she went about it.

If she'd come out of the limo with a big smile, made some kind of gesture or something and walked up all "remember me?" with a laugh, I'd be like, okay, this is weird, but I'll go with it. But she came out testing him, and I hate women who play games like that.

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1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I think it's also because there's this myth around the show that one, everyone does it and two, they all break up when they do it, which is of course not even close to being true. It's only been 5 people from the franchise to do DWTS and the one who did it twice, Melissa, is still happily married to her husband. And of course Trista and Sean were both fine in their relationships after doing the show.

I have said that I firmly believe Jake and Vienna and Chris and Whitney's breakups had nothing do with DWTS and everything to do with their relationship being more or less DOA from the start. And I think this will be the same with Nick - if he and his F1 breakup after DWTS, it will not be that that killed it. The relationship was likely already over. 

I also think there's also the notion by some Bachelor fans that DWTS means showmance and inappropriate behavior/dancing with the lead and whichever Pro they have, which is also not true. But I do put some of the blame of that one on Sean, which is another reason I can't stand him. I remember after the season he was on, he more or less slut shamed Peta, who was his Pro and almost insinuated that she was sort of hitting on him with her inappropriate costumes and dance moves.

And I remember some Bachelor fans who were fans of him and Catherine really bought into that. Interestingly Nick also has Peta as his Pro. But I can't imagine anyone will be accusing a woman who had a baby six weeks ago and is engaged herself, of trying to throw herself at Nick. 

I second that. If his relationship with his F1 doesn't survive past the show (or not much later after the show), it won't be because of that. I do think that the judges kind of feed into the theme of romance and chemistry if the celebrity and pro both happen to be unmarried. There have been a number of contestants who have had great chemistry with their partners and because of their known relationship status (of either the celebrity or pro), the judges are careful to tailor their responses so that it isn't leading or insinuating. Every single huge rumour that has stemmed from that show have all at some point been supported by the comments that the judges give about the pairings. I doubt that this happens with Nick, solely because Peta is his partner and the insinuations are less likely because she's engaged to a DWTS pro alum.

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47 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I doubt that this happens with Nick, solely because Peta is his partner and the insinuations are less likely because she's engaged to a DWTS pro alum.

Not an alum! Maks is participating in this DWTS season as well; he's partnered with Heather Morris. Unless DWTS wants to perpetuate another "Nick vs. the alpha male" storyline, I think Nick is going to steer well clear of any showmance with Peta.

ETA: I just remembered that Maks was also The Bachelor - in the Ukraine. He and Nick can compare notes.

Edited by chocolatine

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48 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

 I have no issues with Raven, and to an earlier point you made, she seemed to get along with everyone in the house.  Heck, Rachel even gave her a note before leaving, right?  

Seems like I remember someone saying she did but I'm not sure. But I can see that. Especially considering that big hug they gave each other when Rachel was eliminated.

 

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Sean did DWTS as well, and is married to Catherine. So I don't think doing the show is necessarily an indicator of not being serious about the F1.  

 

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

 Any other contestant has gotten the side-eye when it was revealed they allegedly dumped someone just before coming on the show. 

I guess time will tell if he's serious or not and I will admit he's a really good dancer. The chance to do something he enjoys doing is a better reason for him doing it than for money in my opinion. But for me it was the initial disappointment that I felt when they announced him more than anything that swayed my opinion. I had just spent weeks defending him for doing the Bachelor, believing he was serious this time and really enjoying him as the lead. So my initial reaction when they announced him was, "oh no Nick why are you giving them ammunition". Then I started doubting his reasons myself. Maybe I was a little hasty. If his F1 had input into the decision and was there to support him than totally different ballgame. It will be interesting to see how all that plays out.

And regarding your comment about how some contestants get a side eye and others get a pass, I agree. Take for instance Sean that you mentioned in your post. Seems like many of the people who are giving Nick a pass gave Sean hell for doing the same thing? It's either they had their reasons and it's fine or they're both money hungry fame whores. And I didn't watch Sean's season or know much about him. It just seems what's good for one should be good for the other.

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On 09/03/2017 at 4:54 PM, GracieK said:

I think Taylor is more insufferable than Kelsey Poe and that's saying something.  She strikes me as the type who does very well in her studies and in school, but I have a hard time believing that it will translate well into her career if the little she showed about herself is any indication (and I get that it's probably not a fair representation).  My impression isn't solely based on her interactions with Corrine, but her entire time on the show starting with how she told Nick during their introduction that her friends think he's a complete piece of shit.  She's awkward and doesn't at all seem comfortable relaxing and showing warmth.  Trying to educate Corrine on emotional intelligence just felt like she studied a textbook definition and is trying to lecture people on what she's learned in it's literalness.  She's obviously young and immature and must have little experience in her actual chosen career so far.  Graduating in a particular field doesn't make you an expert yet... she's got a long way to go before she starts imparting her wisdom on others.  As far as Corrine having some affect on her career or life, honey, you need to take responsibility for yourself and for putting yourself on this show and in these situations.  I doubt that anyone of consequence in her field is going to go on the word of Corrine calling her a bitch (particularly when she showed herself to be a pretty unpleasant and unlikeable person on her own). 

I don't think Corinne calling her a bitch is what Taylor was concerned about, rather Corinne repeatedly saying that she was bullying her. I can believe Taylor was rude to her and kept her distance after the interrupting/re-interrupting nonsense and Corinne drunkenly lecturing people, but bullying is a strong word and definitely not something a mental health counsellor would want to be associated with. I can see how being branded a bully might affect her professionally. Of course you can say it's her own fault for engaging with Corinne in the first place, but I do feel a bit bad for her. She's just young, still sees the world in black and white, and clearly has little experience in dealing with dramatic toddlers such as Corinne. She obviously had no idea what she was getting herself into by getting on Corinne's bad side. Not saying I don't find Taylor immature and obnoxious, but the hate she's gotten is pretty intense and baffling considering Corinne seems to be getting away with everything. I felt her frustration when Corinne wouldn't even try to understand where she was coming from, let alone show any sort of empathy. It's hard for any rational person to deal with talking to a proverbial wall. As annoying and immature as I find them both, Taylor came away looking like the bigger person to me. I'm sure she'll mature at some point, Corinne however... I have my doubts.

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The only worthwhile thing about this entire 3 hours was seeing Kristina again. She is gorgeous, intelligent, strong and loving. 

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23 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Judging by Nick's behavior with the other women, I think that he kept Raven along because she won't be as devastated when he dumps her.

Fully agree. She's the Lindzi [sic] Cox to Vanessa's Courtney.

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Watching the WTA, I see Danielle M (the nurse one) still has the personality of a peanut.

When Vanessa made her comment about wanting Sunday dinners, did she specifically say she wanted them with her family?  Or just any family?  It's a genuine question, because I can't remember the conversation.  Vanessa might be perfectly happy having Sunday dinners with Nick's family.

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21 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

The difference for me with Liz is that she was playing Nick. She went on the show not telling him she was, after not speaking to him or reaching out to him for months then, when he looked confused, didn't make any effort to say they knew each other and laughed about tricking him. When Nick showed up on Kaitlyn's season they had discussed it before hand, they had been in contact fairly regularly. He didn't surprise her. It's not that Liz is any more or less fame whorey, I just hated the way she went about it.

If she'd come out of the limo with a big smile, made some kind of gesture or something and walked up all "remember me?" with a laugh, I'd be like, okay, this is weird, but I'll go with it. But she came out testing him, and I hate women who play games like that.

I didn't watch Kaitlyn's season, so I went to Youtube to see if there was available video.  According to this, Kaitlyn didn't say she and Nick talked about him coming on the show.  Just that they had communicated prior to her season.  Kaitlyn seems to downplay their pre-show communication in the clip, so I didn't get the impression that Nick actively pursued her before coming on the show.  The video is edited, so perhaps there's additional footage where she confirms that she knew in advance he was coming or that Nick was explicit in wanting to date her before coming on the show.

I thought Nick himself later said that he immediately recognized Liz (in contrast to his earlier voiceover/ITM), so I disagree she was playing him.  She didn't show up in a disguise. He was understandably confused about her showing up when she had plenty of time to contact him before the show, and I didn't have a problem with him calling her out. Ultimately, though, I don't see much difference in how Nick and Liz came on the Bachelor/Bachelorette show to "pursue" the lead.      

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5 hours ago, Bugs Meany said:

Fully agree. She's the Lindzi [sic] Cox to Vanessa's Courtney.

I remember Lindzi and wondering how she had got to F2. But I believe the biggest difference between her and Raven are the bachelors they had. I don't remember Lindzi as having any kind of special connection with Ben and although Courtney's win was as obvious as Vanessa's has been I think Nick grew to care for Raven more than Ben (he was such an ass) ever did for Lindzi.

By now we all know the editors tricks of trying to throw off the viewers with projecting doubt about the F1. I suspect they might not have shown the better side of Vanessa as much or possible scenes that were more harmonious. But I also think the editors, for whatever reason, chose to delete scenes which show a closer connection between him and Raven. In the deleted clip I saw (goggle deleted scenes Nick and Raven) Nick tells her that he likes that she's not a bullshitter and she says, "I told you in our one on one that I wasn't a bullshitter and I didn't think you were one. I admire that in a man". I think there was a easy understanding between them and a natural ease that was present in all their time together. The biggest thing against her is her immaturity with men and that she's not really ready for marriage. I think Nick realized this and although his initial thoughts might have been that she would be easier to cut because she wasn't as intense as some of the women in the end I suspect he grew closer to her than some think. The very nature of that conversation is so contradictory to the thought of him taking her all the way to the end and then cutting her that unless they secretly and agreeably had this conversation that he would pick Vanessa, (and knowing what we know of Nick's nature) it would have had to bother him way more than some think it did.

I think it was obvious that Ben F cared about nobody but himself and what he wanted. It's been awhile but I don't remember there being much of a connection between him and Lindzi at all. Not even a particular likability factor. I think Nick appreciated all his connections with these women as evidenced by his easy connection with Alexis. I think he had much this same easy connection with Raven with the difference being he was actually physically attracted to her also. So I think the easy dismissal of Raven as basically fodder is inaccurate and doesn't warrant a comparison to Ben and Lindzi at all.

Edited by yorklee2
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3 hours ago, Canada said:

Watching the WTA, I see Danielle M (the nurse one) still has the personality of a peanut.

When Vanessa made her comment about wanting Sunday dinners, did she specifically say she wanted them with her family?  Or just any family?  It's a genuine question, because I can't remember the conversation.  Vanessa might be perfectly happy having Sunday dinners with Nick's family.

Im certain she said with her family. every sunday.

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4 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

Im certain she said with her family. every sunday.

She did. She specially stated that having her Sundays with her family was something she looked forward to all week. And she never relented from that. Not even a little.

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Didn't she say Sunday lunch was a must *when* she's in Montreal? I took that to mean that she doesn't need to live in Montreal full time, but when she's there, she wants to attend Sunday lunch with her family.

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Exactly! I really don't think the 'Sunday dinners with my family' thing is as big a deal as the show made it seem. I feel like there's probably more to the whole 'traditional' convo than we were shown. At least I hope so because it didn't really make any sense lol.

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29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Exactly! I really don't think the 'Sunday dinners with my family' thing is as big a deal as the show made it seem. I feel like there's probably more to the whole 'traditional' convo than we were shown. At least I hope so because it didn't really make any sense lol.

I agree there was probably more to it than what we were shown because we know how much they edit as they see fit. So Vanessa doesn't live in the same city as her family? I don't remember that being specified. I just remember her only saying that she wouldn't compromise about her Sundays with her family and it was something she looked forward to all week.

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I wonder if the mystery of why they edited the show this way will ever be revealed? Or if we will just be left with a bunch of mangled memories... If Vanessa is the One (hahaha) at the end, I will not be surprised, but I have not seen their love story play out, I do not feel I know her, what little of her I've seen has not been enticing, and consequently I have no warm feelings for her whatsoever. Raven seems like a good kind of gal and I hope she is not too hurt at the end of this. All I think is, if Nick and Vanessa end up together, for even a short while, there is going to be one very cross woman after watching the show - not the least because she is not the heroine of the edit. It will be interesting to see if they can salvage a great love story arc out of the final episode; Nick will have a lot of explaining to do, either way. This means the AFR should be a fun-filled night of meaningful simmering silences and angry body language! I would be stoked if Raven 'won', but I can't see that happening (any more than I could see him choosing Alexis, but it sure would have been a more fun show if Alexis was still around now).

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On March 9, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Madding crowd said:

I think Vanessa is very pretty, but why in the world did she go on a show with an American Bachelor if she wants to stay in Canada? There certainly might be men who would move there, but it won't be a guy who makes his living on reality TV shows like Nick. 

Exactly!! She did remember she went on the American Bachelor, right??

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7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Didn't she say Sunday lunch was a must *when* she's in Montreal? I took that to mean that she doesn't need to live in Montreal full time, but when she's there, she wants to attend Sunday lunch with her family.

Vanessa's bio on ABC says she's from Montreal. I watched the scene over again and what city she lived in was never really specified. That's why I just assumed she lived in Montreal. Also I noticed on the night portion of their date as they're walking through the snow Nick says something about the cold and she says, 'yeah the winters in Montreal can be very brutal". Now I assume in Canada the winters are brutal throughout the country? So why would she specific Montreal? She could have said "back home". Why wouldn't she have just said the city she lives in if she doesn't live in Montreal?

Her hometown date was in Montreal where she took Nick to her students/her job there in the city. I would think her being a teacher it would be a full time job and she would need to live there. Unless she has other means and could afford to commute but why the hassle of a long commute? So I think it's safe to say she lives in Montreal?

Edited by yorklee2

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8 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Now I assume in Canada the winters are brutal throughout the country? So why would she specific Montreal? She could have said "back home". Why wouldn't she have just said the city she lives in if she doesn't live in Montreal?

Actually, winters in Canada vary greatly across the country (which is, by the way, larger than America).  Vancouver isn't much further north than Seattle and they have very similar climates.  I live in Toronto which is south of cities such as Minneapolis.  Our weather is pretty much the same as Chicago.  Montreal is colder and snowier than Toronto.

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18 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Didn't she say Sunday lunch was a must *when* she's in Montreal? I took that to mean that she doesn't need to live in Montreal full time, but when she's there, she wants to attend Sunday lunch with her family.

I found it a little ambiguous because she said the thing about Sundays with family, which I took to mean every Sunday.  Then Nick said something like, "When you're in Montreal, right?"  And I think she said yes.

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1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I found it a little ambiguous because she said the thing about Sundays with family, which I took to mean every Sunday.  Then Nick said something like, "When you're in Montreal, right?"  And I think she said yes.

He actually said, "when your in Montreal you do family dinners?". I wondered about that too but (as I stated above) when faced with all the logical evidence, that indicates she does live in Montreal, I took it to mean he posed it as a questioning statement reiterating what she said. Sort of like, " so when your home you have family dinners". Or say to Corrine, " when your in Miami you go shopping". 

Edited by yorklee2

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3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Actually, winters in Canada vary greatly across the country (which is, by the way, larger than America).  Vancouver isn't much further north than Seattle and they have very similar climates.  I live in Toronto which is south of cities such as Minneapolis.  Our weather is pretty much the same as Chicago.  Montreal is colder and snowier than Toronto.

So then again why would she specify Montreal? If she lived in another city why not use that as a point of reference? Or again she could have just said, "back home". I get your saying the weather can vary across the country but it doesn't sound like there's that much difference. I mean Chicago winters can be brutal too. In fact Nick said just that. Point being why did she automatically go to Montreal if she didn't live there? 

And I never said the USA is bigger than Canada...lol. But I get it. National pride and all. We're all entitled to that.

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Excuse me, I'm just going to crawl back into my igloo after feeding my pet penguin and polar bear.

:P

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13 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Vanessa's bio on ABC says she's from Montreal. I watched the scene over again and what city she lived in was never really specified. That's why I just assumed she lived in Montreal. Also I noticed on the night portion of their date as they're walking through the snow Nick says something about the cold and she says, 'yeah the winters in Montreal can be very brutal". Now I assume in Canada the winters are brutal throughout the country? So why would she specific Montreal? She could have said "back home". Why wouldn't she have just said the city she lives in if she doesn't live in Montreal?

Her hometown date was in Montreal where she took Nick to her students/her job there in the city. I would think her being a teacher it would be a full time job and she would need to live there. Unless she has other means and could afford to commute but why the hassle of a long commute? So I think it's safe to say she lives in Montreal?

You're overthinking it. She's currently living in Montreal, so she regularly attends her family's Sunday lunch/dinner. When she's not living in Montreal (as she has previously), she doesn't. That's all there seems to be to it.

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3 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

He actually said, "when your in Montreal you do family dinners?". I wondered about that too but (as I stated above) when faced with all the logical evidence, that indicates she does live in Montreal, I took it to mean he posed it as a questioning statement reiterating what she said. Sort of like, " so when your home you have family dinners". Or say to Corrine, " when your in Miami you go shopping". 

I took it that Nick was trying to determine if it really was every single Sunday, which would require living in Montreal, or if it was every Sunday when she happened to be there.  But the whole conversation (as presented) was bordering on inscrutable.

 

2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

And I never said the USA is bigger than Canada...lol. But I get it. National pride and all. We're all entitled to that.

I'll just point out that I'm in the U.S. and don't feel particularly entitled to national pride.

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2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

You're overthinking it. She's currently living in Montreal, so she regularly attends her family's Sunday lunch/dinner. When she's not living in Montreal (as she has previously), she doesn't. That's all there seems to be to it.

Right except in that conversation she was pretty adamant about staying in Canada. She even kept pushing the issue in the night portion of the date. She's ok when's she's not living in Canada sure but that's just it she essentially said she does not want to move from Canada. Now she may have changed her mind since but I'm going on what was obviously said in that conversation. 

Why am I over thinking it when I respond to what seemingly looks like argument trying to divert from the obvious?? There may have been deleted footage that would have explained things better but we saw and heard what she did said. It wasn't a voiceover. It looked pretty seamless so I don't think it was spliced. I don't hate Vanessa no more than I blindingly love Raven but the truth is pretty obvious in my opinion. 

And by the way for all the Canadian posters I have nothing against your country. I've never visited but I've been told it's beautiful. I worked for a Canadian company with many Canadians and they were great people. So my opinions about Vanessa's conversation in no way reflect any animosity or prejudice against Canada or it's people.

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47 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'll just point out that I'm in the U.S. and don't feel particularly entitled to national pride.

I said we were entitled to it. Whether we choose to feel it or not is anyone's prerogative of course.

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5 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

So then again why would she specify Montreal? If she lived in another city why not use that as a point of reference? Or again she could have just said, "back home". I get your saying the weather can vary across the country but it doesn't sound like there's that much difference. I mean Chicago winters can be brutal too. In fact Nick said just that. Point being why did she automatically go to Montreal if she didn't live there? 

And I never said the USA is bigger than Canada...lol. But I get it. National pride and all. We're all entitled to that.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that you said the USA was bigger.  I made that statement as part of the point I was making that you can't stereotype Canadian winters as all the same.   If you are from the US south, I can see where snowy winters seem the same, but places like Toronto and Chicago have bad patches and then very mild (relatively speaking) patches where there's no snow on the ground and temperatures are in the 30s and even 40s.  In Montreal, they generally don't get those milder breaks which makes them more brutal.

And Vancouver, like Seattle, generally just has a rainy winter.

5 hours ago, Canada said:

Excuse me, I'm just going to crawl back into my igloo after feeding my pet penguin and polar bear.

:P

Don't forget to give your sled a tune up and make sure your dogs are ready for the storm that's coming in the east!

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3 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

And by the way for all the Canadian posters I have nothing against your country. I've never visited but I've been told it's beautiful. I worked for a Canadian company with many Canadians and they were great people. So my opinions about Vanessa's conversation in no way reflect any animosity or prejudice against Canada or it's people.

Hey, Yorklee2.  I never thought you had any animosity or prejudice against Canada/it's people.  It's just that there are a lot of Canadian stereotypes that many of us try to fight.  One of them is that we live in a near-constant state of winter or that any generalizations can be made about such a large country.  So definitely nothing personal!!!

As for Nick and Vanessa, I certainly hope that she considered, when she went on the US version of the Bachelor instead of the Canadian version, that moving would likely be a part of winning.  Heck, even when the final couple are both from the US, your country is pretty darned big too.  No guarantee they'll live near each other (and I've often wondered why that's not discussed), but it generally seems to be the woman who moves.

Edited by DEL901
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There is a saying "never say never". I'm sure they both say they would never move out of their country, but given the right circumstances I'm sure they would. If Nick were offered a stint on some Canadian reality show I'm sure he'd move so fast our heads would spin. If Vanessa were told Nick was a millionaire with a luxury mansion on the beach she might consider moving (if that's the kind of lifestyle she's looking for). Thing is, anyone who goes on this shit show has to at least contemplate the idea of moving if they are serious about getting a relationship out of this. So, unless she is 100% faking it, she has to be considering the idea that she might be moving.

Same with Raven. If Raven is his final pick (it is really amusing how very few seem to consider it, myself included and pretty high up on the list) she will have to sell her little shop and move out of Arkansas, because there is no way in HELL Nick is moving there. I think he's sooner move to Montreal than some little town in Arkansas. I bet they don't even have a TV studio there! Their local news probably comes from Fayetteville or Little Rock, whichever is closer. (I lived in Arkansas, so I am speaking from experience when I say I can't picture Nick there. Not just being a regionalist.) Based on his love of being on TV I think he needs to be in a big city that at least has a local news station. He could be weather boy. haha

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48 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that you said the USA was bigger.  I made that statement as part of the point I was making that you can't stereotype Canadian winters as all the same.   If you are from the US south, I can see where snowy winters seem the same, but places like Toronto and Chicago have bad patches and then very mild (relatively speaking) patches where there's no snow on the ground and temperatures are in the 30s and even 40s.  In Montreal, they generally don't get those milder breaks which makes them more brutal.

And Vancouver, like Seattle, generally just has a rainy winter.

Thanks for educating me on that. Honestly. I didn't realize that Vancouver had mostly rainy weather. I'm sorry for assuming but I did put a question mark after my statement because I wasn't sure. I worked with a guy from Vancouver but it never came up in conversation. I get that you guys up north probably get tired of the snow and cold jokes and any stereotyping that goes on. And yes I'm from the south and can relate about stereotyping believe me.

ETA: I saw your second post after I posted this one so I'm glad I  was correct in thinking you guys hated the stereotyping too. Guess it pays us all to be more informed.

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Huh, I just assumed they were talking more about church Sunday followed by family dinner rather than geographically where Vanessa wanted to reside. And that she meant she expected to continue that tradition with her own family. But I also assume someone like nick would want to be in LA, continuing his reality tv career in some form. 

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1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

Hey, Yorklee2.  I never thought you had any animosity or prejudice against Canada/it's people.  It's just that there are a lot of Canadian stereotypes that many of us try to fight.  One of them is that we live in a near-constant state of winter or that any generalizations can be made about such a large country.  So definitely nothing personal!!!

As for Nick and Vanessa, I certainly hope that she considered, when she went on the US version of the Bachelor instead of the Canadian version, that moving would likely be a part of winning.  Heck, even when the final couple are both from the US, your country is pretty darned big too.  No guarantee they'll live near each other (and I've often wondered why that's not discussed), but it generally seems to be the woman who moves.

I said that because I felt like the Montreal discussion was getting a little old and the Canadian posters were probably getting tired of hearing it and might have thought because my views on the hot tub discussion were different that it might have something to do with her being Canadian, so I wanted to make my views completely clear on that.

I honestly believe that Vanessa has reconsidered the issue about moving but at the time of the hot tub discussion she felt different. I mean if she's his F1 and they mean to make it work there had to be compromise on both their parts I'm sure.

So anyway glad we cleared that up.

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1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

she will have to sell her little shop and move out of Arkansas,

Right except Raven never said she wouldn't move out of Arkansas as Vanessa did. And honestly I don't think she ever expected Nick to move to Arkansas. She looked to me like she was just taking things one day at a time and never tried to assume anything.

I'm sure Vanessa has changed her mind, if she's the one, and realized she would have to compromise. And Nick too for that matter. Tomorrow night should be interesting.

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Vanessa never said she wouldn't move out of Canada either. She just asked if moving to Canada was a non-negotiable for Nick, which is a fair question. Just because she replied that she's a proud Canadian, it doesn't mean she would never move. She never actually clarified what her own intentions are, she was just trying to gauge Nick's. I also took the Sunday dinner thing to mean that she does it when it's logistically possible. Like if she lives in the same city then she wants to spend that time with them, but that whole conversation was so chopped up, it's hard to tell what she really meant.

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1 hour ago, MsPH said:

Vanessa never said she wouldn't move out of Canada either. She just asked if moving to Canada was a non-negotiable for Nick, which is a fair question. Just because she replied that she's a proud Canadian, it doesn't mean she would never move. She never actually clarified what her own intentions are, she was just trying to gauge Nick's. I also took the Sunday dinner thing to mean that she does it when it's logistically possible. Like if she lives in the same city then she wants to spend that time with them, but that whole conversation was so chopped up, it's hard to tell what she really meant.

Was everybody watching the same show I was? I don't understand why everyone thought it was so chopped up, inscrutable and such when it was so plain what she said. Extra footage being deleted? Maybe but I don't see how she could have been any plainer in what we did see and hear her say. And no one to my knowledge every said or insinuated that just because she's a proud Canadian it means she would never move. She did however say, when Nick asked her if there was anything she would never compromise on, yes. Nick looked surprised as if he wasn't expecting that and she says, "you want me to tell you them"? He says yes and she then says, "Sunday dinners with my family". Her words out of her mouth. I even watched it back to see if I missed something. So if she lives in Montreal full time (which obviously she does) and has every Sunday with her family how else is anyone supposed to interpret that? If she would never compromise on it then that's essentially saying Nick would have to move. So technically she never said the words,"I will never move out of Canada", but that's about as close as you can get without actually saying it.

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3 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Was everybody watching the same show I was? I don't understand why everyone thought it was so chopped up, inscrutable and such when it was so plain what she said. Extra footage being deleted? Maybe but I don't see how she could have been any plainer in what we did see and hear her say. And no one to my knowledge every said or insinuated that just because she's a proud Canadian it means she would never move. She did however say, when Nick asked her if there was anything she would never compromise on, yes. Nick looked surprised as if he wasn't expecting that and she says, "you want me to tell you them"? He says yes and she then says, "Sunday dinners with my family". Her words out of her mouth. I even watched it back to see if I missed something. So if she lives in Montreal full time (which obviously she does) and has every Sunday with her family how else is anyone supposed to interpret that? If she would never compromise on it then that's essentially saying Nick would have to move. So technically she never said the words,"I will never move out of Canada", but that's about as close as you can get without actually saying it.

Exactly. I remember that she said she would not compromise about Sunday dinners with her family. I was very surprised to hear her say that because to me it seemed so silly for that to be the big deal she wouldn't compromise about. So for that reason, I remember quite clearly. I honestly, don't think she was telling the truth. I'm sure she will move which makes what she said seem extra ridiculous and pointless.

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10 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Was everybody watching the same show I was? I don't understand why everyone thought it was so chopped up, inscrutable and such when it was so plain what she said. Extra footage being deleted? Maybe but I don't see how she could have been any plainer in what we did see and hear her say. And no one to my knowledge every said or insinuated that just because she's a proud Canadian it means she would never move. She did however say, when Nick asked her if there was anything she would never compromise on, yes. Nick looked surprised as if he wasn't expecting that and she says, "you want me to tell you them"? He says yes and she then says, "Sunday dinners with my family". Her words out of her mouth. I even watched it back to see if I missed something. So if she lives in Montreal full time (which obviously she does) and has every Sunday with her family how else is anyone supposed to interpret that? If she would never compromise on it then that's essentially saying Nick would have to move. So technically she never said the words,"I will never move out of Canada", but that's about as close as you can get without actually saying it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I think a lot was left out of that conversation (like every conversation on this show) to make it seem as tense as possible, when in fact they were both smiling and acting flirty throughout. I for one took it to mean that she wants to spend Sundays with her family if she lives in Montreal, which she does at the moment, but she has lived in other cities before and I have a feeling she's willing to do it again. I mean Nick even clarified "So when you're in Montreal on Sundays, you have lunch?" and she said yes. She didn't add that she must be in Montreal every Sunday for the rest of her life. Like someone already said, her "core value" might just be Sunday time with family, whether that means her relatives or her own family with her future husband. And if she'd already made it clear she won't move while in the hot tub, why would they be discussing it again in the evening like it hadn't come up? I guess we'll find out soon enough. If they are engaged then this conversation will probably be moot.

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12 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Was everybody watching the same show I was? I don't understand why everyone thought it was so chopped up, inscrutable and such when it was so plain what she said. Extra footage being deleted? Maybe but I don't see how she could have been any plainer in what we did see and hear her say. And no one to my knowledge every said or insinuated that just because she's a proud Canadian it means she would never move. She did however say, when Nick asked her if there was anything she would never compromise on, yes. Nick looked surprised as if he wasn't expecting that and she says, "you want me to tell you them"? He says yes and she then says, "Sunday dinners with my family". Her words out of her mouth. I even watched it back to see if I missed something. So if she lives in Montreal full time (which obviously she does) and has every Sunday with her family how else is anyone supposed to interpret that? If she would never compromise on it then that's essentially saying Nick would have to move. So technically she never said the words,"I will never move out of Canada", but that's about as close as you can get without actually saying it.

I'm sure we all were and I think many are acknowledging that we likely didn't see a full conversation in its entirety from the start of the date to the end of the date. Would you agree with that? They have been touch and go on the subject of moving and long distance. How do we know that they didn't have one of these conversations earlier where Vanessa said something like "I can't imagine visiting my family and not making time to attend Sunday lunch like I always have'. That certainly insinuates something a bit different than a straight forward indication that she wouldn't move.

Nick gave an interview after the WTA and he said that those conversations were had with Raven and Rachel as well but production chose to only focus on that part of his relationship with Vanessa but he enjoys looking back at it because he's appreciates how much the two of them invested in taking it seriously to see if they could in fact make things work outside of the Bachelor world. Vanessa has had interviews where she's said that she would be willing to move for love. If she's willing to publicly say that, isn't it safe to assume that at some point she's been just as clear with Nick at some point that the option is a possibility for her if she felt it was right?

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I think it's all just wonky editing, it always is. It was the same with Kaitlyn's season; she picked Shawn practically when he stepped out of the limo and her entire season was about her sleeping with Nick. Instead of the Andi approach "feminist rant", do what you want in your relationship, she was slut shamed. 

What I did love on their ATFR, was Shawn saying he wanted to go on specifically to meet Kaitlyn and thought they'd be a great match and texted his friends about it. And Kaitlyn's family saying she was different around Shawn and how he knew a lot about her family before the family visit. We should have seen all the "unseen" conversations between them.

I would love a back to basics Bachelor season where you do believe the love story but it's scrapped for drama. 

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On 3/9/2017 at 6:09 PM, backformore said:

I thought the "traditional vs not"  conversation was choppy, and because Sunday family time was mentioned, I wondered if it was more about religion, but the editors didn't want to go there.  Because it didn't make sense to me, every family has "traditions".  A traditional family, without any other context, usually means a husband-wife,  man is king of castle,  works, woman stays home, cooks,  and raises kids.  Maybe that's what she meant, I have no clue.

I don't think the editors would have minded going there if it were about church, since they didn't have an issue going there with Rachel, since they literally, physically went there! :)

That whole "traditional" thing made no sense to me either.  I take a "traditional" family to be what you have bolded, not Nick's definition of "a family that has traditions".  

Wow, did I ever find blonde Danielle annoying!  That voice!  Her speech is strange too...during the outtake & there was the bug flying around, it sounded like she said "I thought it was going to fly in muh mauth"  She was shrieking during the Corinne/Taylor crap for Taylor...I wonder if she was more pro-Taylor or anti-Corinne.  

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45 minutes ago, ByTor said:

She was shrieking during the Corinne/Taylor crap for Taylor...I wonder if she was more pro-Taylor or anti-Corinne.  

Definitely pro Taylor. My daughter pulled up Danielle's Instagram the other day and had to show me the pics. Apparently her, Vanessa, Taylor, Kristina, and Kristen are all still friends after the show because there were various pics of them together.

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Kristen...she was the virgin who Liz made her "confession" to, right?  

So I guess Vanessa did make some friends in the house.

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Anyone who thinks any of these girls will pass up he opportunity to grin next to Nick at social events in designer gowns forget it.  It has always been clear Nick likes the limelight  and Canada ia not offering that.  Vanessa will be shilling on instgtam or auditioning and smiling at dancing with the stars.  These people get addicted to meeting stars and feeling important and the freebies they get. 

Raven will try to promote sex toys or get a "down home" reality show about mudding on the CMT channel or Bravo.Does everyone get to wish them well tonight including Raven and Rachel?  I am sure by now they realize they had a great escape.

I can onlyimagine the intro packages on DWTS.

I hear Rachel has already "thanked" Nick on the WTA.  I am sure he loved that.

7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Kristen...she was the virgin who Liz made her "confession" to, right?  

So I guess Vanessa did make some friends in the house.

It was obvious she and the blonde with the dead fiance were friends and talking about people.

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