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S01.E11: Warriors

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I'm probably going to hell for this, but was anyone else thinking that President Keifer was going to get shot as he waved from the window? 

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50 minutes ago, marinw said:

One more observation before calling it a night:

Earlier today I described this show as  "Earnest".  I stand by that, but I would also describe DS as "Canadian". And not just because it is shot in Toronto and has a Canadian actor in the lead. The show feels Canadian in that it is so darn earnest and the it seems like it was written by a committee checking off the necessary boxes of to satisfy a bureaucratic and rigid set of rules, and that the production values are good but not quite as polished as prestige cable shows.

I think actual Canadian TV is much better than this, and tends not to follow set formulae/rules. I watched X Company right before watching DS last night, and i was so taken by X Company that I couldn't focus on or care about DS for at least the first 20 minutes. Anyways, DS isn't a "prestige cable show" - it's a network show.

Having said that, I did think the episode was an improvement and I'm glad Hannah finally got her meeting with the president so we can move this storyline along.

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20 hours ago, mertensia said:

The VP's wife is going to end up knifing someone, I bet. Probably Natasha McElhone's character.

We can only hope.  If she takes out Leo at the same time, I'm recommending her for a Presidential Medal of Freedom (irony intended). 

 

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

While I guess Kirkman won't be able to can him or anything (not sure how all that works), he does have the power to render him useless, so I really don't see Peter's play here. 

If Peter acted illegally, he can be forced to resign (see Agnew, Spiro T.)  ("pusillanimous pussyfooters" [which had nothing to do with current usage] and "nattering nabobs of negativism" will forever be burned into my memory!)

 

28 minutes ago, dbell1 said:

I'm probably going to hell for this, but was anyone else thinking that President Keifer was going to get shot as he waved from the window? 

Me too!

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4 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Odd for me though, I understand Taylor but not Ashley.

I know two Ashleys - both male.

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On ‎08‎.‎03‎.‎2017 at 8:20 PM, Ashand11 said:

Why didn't Kirkman shut the market before he went in for surgery?

I'm wondering about just how realistic this show is supposed to be - or not. I read last year that there's sort of a fail-safe, that if the market falls too much too fast, then it gets really, really hard for people to sell and they basically are forced to buy.

It seems like this show likes to take a lot of artistic licenses with things that can be found out with a quick Google search. I find that that makes it hard to get into it. It's just so much drama with things that make me roll my eyes because they look like lazy research.

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The one other thing that I really appreciated with this show was the tension, the atmosphere of paranoia and dammit, a la Jack Bauer, a sense of urgency. IMHO all of these aspects were sorely lacking in the previous episodes. An unknown group of people had just nearly wiped out our entire government. Yet, in the earlier shows people just had way too much time to hang out chit chatting in the hallways, staffers making goo goo eyes at each other, and Bauer er Kirkman seeming to have endless hours alone staring out windows or chilling out in the Oval Office by himself. Even when they showed life on the street, people just seemed too damned relaxed which truly was infuriating.

It's not as if the writers didn't have a template for how everyone would have reacted, namely 9/11. I vividly remember that day and all of the emotions that accompanied it. The fear and anxiety were palpable with all kinds of crazy rumors floating around, like there were ten planes unaccounted for headed our way here. The one thing we weren't was relaxed. You really don't need to manufacture bone-headed melodrama and goofy subplots. I hope the writers keep taking the show in the direction this episode depicted.

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Just came here to comment that the NYSE is a private corporation and does not need the government to shut down. Gah. That drove me crazy.

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13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

During the opening credits, words flashed across the screen stating that Ashley Zukerman is a "guest star." Did that happen last season?

You mean earlier in the season.  But yes, I believe he was listed as a guest star.  I think Mykelti Williamson (Hannah's boss who got blackmailed by "Them" into confessing to the murder of the terrorist) was also listed as a guest star.  I remember finding it confusing when the two of them were onscreen more than the actors who play Leo the druggy son and Mike the secret service agent.   We saw what happened with Atwood.  So it would appear to me that McLeish'a downfall/exposure is already certain by the end of this season.

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10 hours ago, secnarf said:

I think actual Canadian TV is much better than this, and tends not to follow set formulae/rules.

I am very impressed with Orphan Black. And Kiefer gave Tatiana her Emmy!

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9 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

The one other thing that I really appreciated with this show was the tension, the atmosphere of paranoia and dammit, a la Jack Bauer, a sense of urgency. IMHO all of these aspects were sorely lacking in the previous episodes. An unknown group of people had just nearly wiped out our entire government. Yet, in the earlier shows people just had way too much time to hang out chit chatting in the hallways, staffers making goo goo eyes at each other, and Bauer er Kirkman seeming to have endless hours alone staring out windows or chilling out in the Oval Office by himself. Even when they showed life on the street, people just seemed too damned relaxed which truly was infuriating.

Agreed. You could see they tried to shift the tone. Same with the Kirkman kids. In the previous episodes, I'd expect the son to barge in the hospital and demand answers, asking why he wasn't told etc etc. Now, he was shown for 1 minute and he even made a fun joke about The Revenant. I can only imagine the writers wanted to leave him out completely, but they had to include him because, well, his dad had gotten shot. I'm sure that shift we all want won't happen within one or two episodes, but it's clear the writers trying. That's good.

20 hours ago, blackwing said:

I disagree with others that think this actor is doing a great job.  I think McLeish is coming across as extremely shady and completely unbelievable.  I can't wait to see Kirkman's reaction when he finds out that instead of capturing the shooter alive and questioning him, McLeish had him killed.  It seems like Hannah is going to tell Kirkman that McLeish and the shooter were in the same squad.

Because at this point, she doesn't trust anybody.  She doesn't know who is on her side and who is going to try and kill her.  She knew that the FBI Director guy was listening in on everything she was saying.  But I don't understand why she wouldn't have asked for Hookstraten.  Hannah was on her way to see her and Hookstraten has some degree of power and would have been able to have gotten in to talk with her.

Re: MacLeish, you can see the actor's performance shift as soon as we find out the truth about him. In the early episodes, he seemed earnest and possibly a victim (there was mention of his child going "missing" for a few minutes etc). Then, we figure out he's a war criminal and his entire goal was to become the VP. Now that we know, the actor has shifted from a "is he a good guy or a bad guy?" ambivalent performance to another type of ambivalence, to "he's a bad guy, but is he enjoying it or is he trapped?" I think he's doing a great job.

He's much more blatantly shady now, because both us (the audience) and several characters (Hookstraten, Hannah, even the POTUS) suspect him openly (and have accused him to his face, at times) but I still can't put my finger on him. I credit the actor. I could even buy that he didn't act like a douche just because he felt like it, as the temporary POTUS, or even because it was the plan. I think, especially when it comes to the order to kill Catalan, he acted out of panic. It seems that Mrs. MacLeish is more into the mission, and he's more into saving his own ass (a twisted version of Philip and Elizabeth from The Americans, perhaps, and I apologize for even mentioning that amazing show in a thread for Designated Survivor, heh).

Re: Hannah, I totally agree. She could have asked for Hookstraten immediately, and that's what I thought she was going to do. Maybe she didn't want to directly implicate Hookstraten? Are their communications known to the others? To the FBI? Kirkman and Mike know, but does Reed Diamond? Maybe Hannah was protecting Hookstraten? Who knows.

Edited by Princess Lucky
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So, I am not au fait on the subject, so perhaps someone can say:  Now that the President is aware of MacLeish's war criminal past, and his involvement in a massive terrorist attack, the murder of a president (and his entire government), plus the attempted murder of another president... can he (the VP) be fired? If not stood up against a wall in the Whitehouse basement 99 Zulu and summarily shot?

ETA:  Or failing that, can he be sent on a 10-year long, fact-finding mission to the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station?

Edited by Netfoot
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2 hours ago, blackwing said:

You mean earlier in the season.  But yes, I believe he was listed as a guest star.  I think Mykelti Williamson (Hannah's boss who got blackmailed by "Them" into confessing to the murder of the terrorist) was also listed as a guest star.  I remember finding it confusing when the two of them were onscreen more than the actors who play Leo the druggy son and Mike the secret service agent.   We saw what happened with Atwood.  So it would appear to me that McLeish'a downfall/exposure is already certain by the end of this season.

Wrong actor. You meant Malick Yorba from New York Undercover not Mykelti Williamson of The Righteous Apples and many movies from Forrest Gump to recently playing the brain injured veteran and uncle in Fences 

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1 hour ago, Raja said:

Wrong actor. You meant Malick Yorba from New York Undercover not Mykelti Williamson of The Righteous Apples and many movies from Forrest Gump to recently playing the brain injured veteran and uncle in Fences 

Ah, my bad, thanks for the correction.  I got the actors confused.  Mykelti Williamson is indeed on the show, but he plays the new Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (the one who replaced the guy who plays Judge Woodhull on "Turn").  Malik Yoba is Jason Atwood.  I knew Atwood was played by a semi-"name" actor.

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1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

I don't know of any Ashley male in Canada :xD so is it mostly in UK and Australia?

Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I believe Ashley is still seen occasionally on boys in the UK.  It is particularly uncommon these days for boys in the U.S.  Nowadays, if parents want to get the "Ash" nickname for their boy, they are likely to use Ashton or Asher.  Ashley became very popular on American girls in the 1980s, and I'm pretty sure it was because of pop culture.  Somebody once told me that Ashley became popular for girls because of Ashley Abbott on "The Young and the Restless".  (Like how Madison became a very popular girl's name after the character played by Daryl Hannah on "Splash".)  Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

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Shallow observation: Kiefer looked handsome and adorable in that flashback scene

Edited by marinw
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Kind of surprised that some people didn't like it ; I loved it. Of course, it's easy to love a show in it's 1st season, especially when Keifer S. and Maggie Q are the leads. I loved  The Blacklist the first season also ; now I just watch because I hate to drop a show after that long.

 

I do agree, though, on some bad plot points, for example, I think that the stock market would have shut down long before it needed White House intervention. The Wall Street guys don't need that to act. Just like after 9/11, it would be foolhardy to not shut down. As we saw in the episode, tons of money was lost and it shouldn't have happened.

The name McLeish always makes me think of the old Dallas show. That was the name of the brothers to whom Bobby sold his oil drilling rights when he & JR were fighting for control of Ewing Oil. Man, am I old or what ?

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1 hour ago, willco said:

As we saw in the episode, tons of money was lost and it shouldn't have happened.

I am somewhat ambivalent about this concept.  In order for someone to sell stocks, someone has to buy them, and, of course, vice versa.  Tons of money was transferred, to be sure, but nothing was forcing the shareholders to sell.  True, people who don't engage in the rapid sell off lose some value to their shares as they decline, but if they hold on, it will come back.  The stock market will recover, as history has shown. Only those who are in the great game of buy low, sell high will be the losers, at least in the short run.  That's just my opinion; I'm no Jim Cramer.

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10 hours ago, Netfoot said:

So, I am not au fait on the subject, so perhaps someone can say:  Now that the President is aware of MacLeish's war criminal past, and his involvement in a massive terrorist attack, the murder of a president (and his entire government), plus the attempted murder of another president... can he (the VP) be fired? If not stood up against a wall in the Whitehouse basement 99 Zulu and summarily shot?

ETA:  Or failing that, can he be sent on a 10-year long, fact-finding mission to the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station?

See my post above..  He can be forced to resign if he broke the law.  He could, I think, be impeached, as well.

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12 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

See my post above..  He can be forced to resign if he broke the law.  He could, I think, be impeached, as well.

I was curious so I looked this up.  The VP can be impeached by the House, and he can resign (cough, cough....be "persuaded" to resign) but the President cannot fire him.  It is apparently the only position in the executive branch where the President cannot fire whoever holds it.

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1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I was curious so I looked this up.  The VP can be impeached by the House, and he can resign (cough, cough....be "persuaded" to resign) but the President cannot fire him.  It is apparently the only position in the executive branch where the President cannot fire whoever holds it.

Thanks for the info.

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On 03/09/2017 at 7:47 PM, Moose135 said:

 

I didn't notice - who conducted the raid? Was it police/FBI?  It's hard to tell the way everyone gears up these days, but it almost looked like military - which gets into Posse Comitatus issues of the military conducting civilian law enforcement.

 

I saw "FBI" on the backs of several people in the scene, so it was probably the FBI SRT (or is it HRT?).  FBI version of SWAT.  Maybe with local LEOs assisting.  They seemed to be in tactical gear, which would give a military look.

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11 minutes ago, transitfan said:

I saw "FBI" on the backs of several people in the scene, so it was probably the FBI SRT (or is it HRT?).  FBI version of SWAT.  Maybe with local LEOs assisting.  They seemed to be in tactical gear, which would give a military look.

Hostage Rescue Team is the national level tier one team they can be supported by local field office SWAT Teams and "Enhanced SWAT teams" which sort of act like the Army Rangers supporting the first tier Delta Force

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7 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I was curious so I looked this up.  The VP can be impeached by the House, and he can resign (cough, cough....be "persuaded" to resign) but the President cannot fire him.  It is apparently the only position in the executive branch where the President cannot fire whoever holds it.

Doesn't the President though have a lot of leeway in respect of how much responsibility he gives to the VP?

MacLeish could be easily sidelined once Kirkman is back on his feet. 

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Quote

Doesn't the President though have a lot of leeway in respect of how much responsibility he gives to the VP?

Yes. POTUS could limit VPOTUS to cutting ribbons and playing celebrity golf.  Lyndon Johnson did something like this to his VP, Hubert Humphrey.  Tom Lehrer's song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnHZAUR6hE

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39 minutes ago, Driad said:

Yes. POTUS could limit VPOTUS to cutting ribbons and playing celebrity golf.  Lyndon Johnson did something like this to his VP, Hubert Humphrey.  Tom Lehrer's song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnHZAUR6hE

It was the set up for that Sharon Stone series Agent X. Basically saying you don't really believe the VP was actually created to do almost nothing,. On that show the VP had her own Black Operations force. Sort of like the President's team on the series version of Taken.

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On 3/10/2017 at 1:02 PM, blackwing said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I believe Ashley is still seen occasionally on boys in the UK.  

Is Ashley Madison a dude???? 

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In my mind, I was calling the VP's wife Mrs. Iselin.  She's no Angela Lansbury, although I wouldn't mind a similar end to her character.

In real  life, I certainly hope that the temporary President being so adamant about the alleged assassin being taken out would set off all kinds of bells & whistles.  There was no one to say listen dumbbell, we want to take this guy alive to see what we can learn from him, if he was acting alone or part of a larger conspiracy, or at the behest of a foreign nation?   No one gets suspicious when he orders the death of the person who is perhaps the best hope of getting some answers?

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It occured to me that the last time Kiefer was shot throuht the upper chest was in the last episode of Day 8 of 24, when Jack goads Chloe into shooting him. Then, as now, the bullet passes right through without hitting any organs due to Chloe delibrate aim. Being Jack, he was able to escape custody in about fifteen minutes.

DS is a silly show, but this time TPTB are taking the implications of a gunshot wound more seriously, largely to milk it for the medical drama.

Edited by marinw

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On 3/10/2017 at 0:02 PM, blackwing said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I believe Ashley is still seen occasionally on boys in the UK.  It is particularly uncommon these days for boys in the U.S.  Nowadays, if parents want to get the "Ash" nickname for their boy, they are likely to use Ashton or Asher.  Ashley became very popular on American girls in the 1980s, and I'm pretty sure it was because of pop culture.  Somebody once told me that Ashley became popular for girls because of Ashley Abbott on "The Young and the Restless".  (Like how Madison became a very popular girl's name after the character played by Daryl Hannah on "Splash".)  Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

The mayor of my city is named Ashton.  And he used to be a model.  His wife still is, for Chico's ladies apparel.  He was a few years behind me in high school.  I feel old.  *sigh*

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1 hour ago, Calvada said:

In real  life, I certainly hope that the temporary President being so adamant about the alleged assassin being taken out would set off all kinds of bells & whistles.  There was no one to say listen dumbbell, we want to take this guy alive to see what we can learn from him, if he was acting alone or part of a larger conspiracy, or at the behest of a foreign nation?   No one gets suspicious when he orders the death of the person who is perhaps the best hope of getting some answers?

Hmmmm. . . We haven't seen the body, have we? I think they said the "target" was "neutralized." Does that always mean killed? And, even if it does, maybe there was a consensus that killing the assasin before intel could be gathered would jeopardize the life of the soon to be again POTUS, and protecting him was the higher mandate — or something like that. And is it only on scifi shows that not seeing the body means no one is dead?

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30 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is it only on scifi shows that not seeing the body means no one is dead?

Nope. It's how Gotham hid that Fish Mooney wasn't actually dead, as did The Blacklist with Elizabeth Keen (much to my and the fandom's chagrin, but that's not for this thread).

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On 3/9/2017 at 2:57 PM, akr said:

[example: Ashley Wilkes in Gone with the Wind]

Played by Leslie Howard.

Use of names by different genders changed over the decades.

Edited by buckboard
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15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Hmmmm. . . We haven't seen the body, have we? I think they said the "target" was "neutralized." Does that always mean killed?

So the evil conspiracy spawned a treasonous - albeit patriotic - counter conspiracy that pretended to kill Catalan??? Twisty!!

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On 3/9/2017 at 8:54 PM, dbell1 said:

I'm probably going to hell for this, but was anyone else thinking that President Keifer was going to get shot as he waved from the window? 

I sure did! Was glad it didn't happen.

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On 3/10/2017 at 1:02 PM, blackwing said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, I believe Ashley is still seen occasionally on boys in the UK.  It is particularly uncommon these days for boys in the U.S.  Nowadays, if parents want to get the "Ash" nickname for their boy, they are likely to use Ashton or Asher.  Ashley became very popular on American girls in the 1980s, and I'm pretty sure it was because of pop culture.  Somebody once told me that Ashley became popular for girls because of Ashley Abbott on "The Young and the Restless".  (Like how Madison became a very popular girl's name after the character played by Daryl Hannah on "Splash".)  Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

There's a long running character on the popular UK soap Emmerdale named Ashley but he is to expire soon from early onset dementia! There was also a very popular character on Coronation Street with the same name.

Anyway, forget Ashley, the actor who plays Mike is named LaMonica? Uhhhh...OK.

Random thought: considering all the Aussies, Brits, Kiwis and Canadians Kiefer has gone out of his way to get hired on both 24 and this one he should get SOMETHING from the Queen for contributions to the Commonwealth.

One nitpick: Italia Ricci's crying/acting was really, REALLY poor. It was so bad it even made me think Emily wasn't genuinely upset.

My theory that Alex is actually a baddie involved in the conspiracy to make hubby POTUS continues to dance around inside my head. I paid special attention to her in the hospital room scene alone with unconscious hubby to detect any clues and it's possible to glean from it Natascha McElhone played it in a neutral manner. I came away thinking if she ever is unmasked than you can't say they "cheated" with her in her previous scenes. I don't think McElhone signed on merely to play "supportive wife." I do think one of the cliffhanger twists of S1 will be the reveal of Alex' crucial participation in everything going on.

Edited by TimWil
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On March 8, 2017 at 9:28 PM, DC Gal in VA said:

Have to say, after the very frustrating and maddening previous episodes, this one is my absolute favorite.

All of the crappy writing and plot twists that drove me and others here batty like the who-the-baby-daddy stuff, Hannah Wells' boss not assigning tons of security around his family after the mass murder of most of the government which made him open to being blackmailed into confessing that he killed the architect of the terrorist attack, Kirkman allowing himself to be bullied by the governors and so on, this episode was a relief!

Thanks Designated Survivor for not pissing me off on my birthday!

To be fair though that would probably happen.  Without a full government to back him up and the backing of the American people by being an elected official he would be pretty susceptible to that type of pressure. 

On March 8, 2017 at 11:21 PM, shapeshifter said:

Anyone else get from the doctor's stilted announcement of the bullet fragments that the doc was in cahoots with the bad guys and about to nick an artery accidentally on purpose during surgery? I guess it was from School of Red Herring 101 acting class.

It looks like Mr. and Mrs. MacCleish are being blackmailed, but maybe not.

Thats exactly what i thought was happening lol. 

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On March 9, 2017 at 1:05 PM, blackwing said:

I'm confused about the whole plot.  "They" (I'm assuming that includes the Mysterious Lady in the park who threatened Mykelti Williamson's son) wanted to install McLeish as Vice President so they could be close to the power.  "They" also appears to include Lady Macbeth McLeish.  So the 25th is invoked, McLeish becomes President for some small amount of time.  Why didn't he try and use that time more to "their" advantage and do something?  Instead, we had Lady McLeish telling him to just wait until the President comes back and then they'll be in the clear.  Huh?!  Why wouldn't they have tried to further their goals to the best of their ability?  

I disagree with others that think this actor is doing a great job.  I think McLeish is coming across as extremely shady and completely unbelievable.  I can't wait to see Kirkman's reaction when he finds out that instead of capturing the shooter alive and questioning him, McLeish had him killed.  It seems like Hannah is going to tell Kirkman that McLeish and the shooter were in the same squad.

 

Because at this point, she doesn't trust anybody.  She doesn't know who is on her side and who is going to try and kill her.  She knew that the FBI Director guy was listening in on everything she was saying.  But I don't understand why she wouldn't have asked for Hookstraten.  Hannah was on her way to see her and Hookstraten has some degree of power and would have been able to have gotten in to talk with her.

He knew there wasn't much he could accomplish in 24 hours.

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On March 9, 2017 at 11:36 PM, DC Gal in VA said:

The one other thing that I really appreciated with this show was the tension, the atmosphere of paranoia and dammit, a la Jack Bauer, a sense of urgency. IMHO all of these aspects were sorely lacking in the previous episodes. An unknown group of people had just nearly wiped out our entire government. Yet, in the earlier shows people just had way too much time to hang out chit chatting in the hallways, staffers making goo goo eyes at each other, and Bauer er Kirkman seeming to have endless hours alone staring out windows or chilling out in the Oval Office by himself. Even when they showed life on the street, people just seemed too damned relaxed which truly was infuriating.

It's not as if the writers didn't have a template for how everyone would have reacted, namely 9/11. I vividly remember that day and all of the emotions that accompanied it. The fear and anxiety were palpable with all kinds of crazy rumors floating around, like there were ten planes unaccounted for headed our way here. The one thing we weren't was relaxed. You really don't need to manufacture bone-headed melodrama and goofy subplots. I hope the writers keep taking the show in the direction this episode depicted.

Sorry when has the show ever shown the civilians as relaxed? There were Mulsims being stopped and beaten up in the street and neighbours not lingering to talk to each other.

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On March 11, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Calvada said:

In my mind, I was calling the VP's wife Mrs. Iselin.  She's no Angela Lansbury, although I wouldn't mind a similar end to her character.

In real  life, I certainly hope that the temporary President being so adamant about the alleged assassin being taken out would set off all kinds of bells & whistles.  There was no one to say listen dumbbell, we want to take this guy alive to see what we can learn from him, if he was acting alone or part of a larger conspiracy, or at the behest of a foreign nation?   No one gets suspicious when he orders the death of the person who is perhaps the best hope of getting some answers?

No doubt. They know the person who benefits most from the presidents death is him so how does that not set of all sort of suspicion?It clearly did from some people but Im not sure what the procedure would be in that case.

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On 3/9/2017 at 8:40 PM, marinw said:

You do bring up a good point: Do Politicans wear Kevlar or something under thier coats where they public can't see them?

Bush famously wore a Kevlar vest when throwing out the first pitch at the Yankees game after 9/11. I don't know about whether the president usually wears kevlar at open events.

For the posters wondering about the stock market drop, the show did mention the stock market circuit breakers but that people could still lose a boatload and the show got that right.  I just checked and you get a 15 minute halt in trading at the 7% and 13% loss level and it doesn't close for the day until 20% is lost. 

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18 hours ago, TimWil said:

I do think one of the cliffhanger twists of S1 will be the reveal of Alex' crucial participation in everything going on.

Interesting. Never thought of that. It'd be an interesting twist for sure.

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On 3/10/2017 at 8:32 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I am somewhat ambivalent about this concept.  In order for someone to sell stocks, someone has to buy them, and, of course, vice versa.  Tons of money was transferred, to be sure, but nothing was forcing the shareholders to sell.  True, people who don't engage in the rapid sell off lose some value to their shares as they decline, but if they hold on, it will come back.  The stock market will recover, as history has shown. Only those who are in the great game of buy low, sell high will be the losers, at least in the short run.  That's just my opinion; I'm no Jim Cramer.

I don't want to get too off topic here, so if I am the mods can delete my post, but in theory I agree with you. The problem is, today most anyone who has a retirement plan, 401 K, whatever is in the stock market. Lots of people count on that money as income. Yeah, the stock will reclaim their value, but in what time frame ?  I guarantee you, 3o seconds after the 2nd tower was hit on 9-11, maybe even the first tower, as repulsive as it is, there were people shorting stocks, until trading was halted. I don't really care about the big boys on Wall Street, it's their game and they know the risks. But, as always, it's the little guy, the average Joe, that gets hurt. By the way, Jim Cramer is a smart guy, but since he has to make a good show, he's wrong about as much as he is right. But when he's right, he's really right.

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On ‎9‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 4:01 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I think it didn't occur to them that MacLeish would want to proceed as normal. I can believe that, actually. I agree with the other posters, his behavior while he was acting President was totally and blatantly shady. He pulled quite a few stunts, and while some of the damage is lasting (like the death of Catalan), I also think his own reputation was damaged. Now he's probably seen as either incompetent or too aggressive or just plain wrong for the job.

Maybe if the the group behind him are people who benefit of the falling share prieces because they had already sold their shares (as they knew beforehand Kirkland's assassination and how MacLeish would acrt) and could now buy cheap? (In that case, if they are suoperrich, they could be easily identified.)

However, that kind of situation could be arranged later. Why on earth MacLeish wanted to destroy his reputation as hero when it wasn't necessary, unlike killing of Catalan. But maybe he is only stupid?

As for killing Catalan, even without Hannah Wells, an order to kill the assasin straightway rises doubts about motives. It doesn't matter how many lives would have lost (after all, it's their job), capturing him alive would be worth it, in order to prevent any theories of conspiray that would ultimately undermine the credibility of the government.   

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On ‎10‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 0:22 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Aaron figures out Emily is looking into him and easily figures out that she and Kirkman are suspicious of him.  That has to put a dent in their relationship!  Still think he won't be the mole, since he's just the obvious frontrunner now.  Seth would probably be the most surprising choice.

No, the mole has to be someone who had the power and possibility to prevent the general from having the sketch how to destroy Capitol. But I haven't excluded the general although he denied it.

On ‎10‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 2:34 AM, Dowel Jones said:

I was watching officers of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on a talk show one time, and they indicated that the President doesn't have absolute authority to order executions at will, at least by the military.  They said there are military attorneys that clear executive actions.  Not saying that it's not possible, as procedure can be twisted.  However, giving civilian authorities an order to kill a suspect on sight is a blatant violation of Constitutional protections, in my humble opinion.  And he did it in the presence of several people, so it can't be covered up.  The police at scene should have balked at that order in the first Place.

A good point. It astonished me but as it would impossible here (the assasin woul be is only a suspect until he would be tried in the court), but I don't know the USA so well. 

Edited by Roseanna

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On ‎10‎.‎3‎.‎2017 at 4:29 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I think, especially when it comes to the order to kill Catalan, he acted out of panic. It seems that Mrs. MacLeish is more into the mission, and he's more into saving his own ass (a twisted version of Philip and Elizabeth from The Americans, perhaps, and I apologize for even mentioning that amazing show in a thread for Designated Survivor, heh).

Re: Hannah, I totally agree. She could have asked for Hookstraten immediately, and that's what I thought she was going to do. Maybe she didn't want to directly implicate Hookstraten? Are their communications known to the others? To the FBI? Kirkman and Mike know, but does Reed Diamond? Maybe Hannah was protecting Hookstraten? Who knows.

Having thougt more about Catalan, I think the writers treated his plot badly. The members of the conspiracy would have stupid if they hadn't planned escape routes and safe house for him. And then, even if POTUS had been killed, someone Catalan would have trusted would have killed him. They would never have dared to leave to the chance that Peter would have ordered to kill him, because there would always have been a chance he would captured before that. It was too dangerous to let him live.

Regarding Hannah, how could she know that she could trust Hookstraten? She could doubt that it was Hookrstaten who had ordered the car accident.

POTUS was the only one Hannah could talk. (Earlier, she was stupid not to take photos about the secret file with her mobile phone and send them to Hookstraten, the boy who helps her and newspapers.)  

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2 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Having thougt more about Catalan, I think the writers treated his plot badly. The members of the conspiracy would have stupid if they hadn't planned escape routes and safe house for him. And then, even if POTUS had been killed, someone Catalan would have trusted would have killed him. They would never have dared to leave to the chance that Peter would have ordered to kill him, because there would always have been a chance he would captured before that. It was too dangerous to let him live.

Regarding Hannah, how could she know that she could trust Hookstraten? She could doubt that it was Hookrstaten who had ordered the car accident.

POTUS was the only one Hannah could talk. (Earlier, she was stupid not to take photos about the secret file with her mobile phone and send them to Hookstraten, the boy who helps her and newspapers.)  

I agree. But even if Catalan is dead, the US goverment has his body. Won't they identify him? As having been part of the same regiment(?) as MacLeish? Does the VP have the authority to intercept that body?

Of course none of that (likely) matters, because Hannah will tell Kirkman all about it, but still.

That's true about Hannah possibly not trusting Hookstraten, not entirely. And I also agree on making copies of the evidence, but this show is literally built around dumb decisions like that, so I guess plot dictated that the one and only secret file was taken.

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