S04.E04: Oathkeeper

[Skywarpgold]

Just popping in to ask everyone to please review the new addition to our Questions and Proclamations thread. Thanks so much!

[Anothermi]

Well,  THAT was tense - especially the Craster Keep section.  Poor Hodor. (and as someone else pointed out...Meera!)

 

- Glad to see Sansa is finally getting a bit suspicious of people like LIttlefinger, BUT, after he laid out how he killed Joffrey and implicated her didn't she say "I don't believe you."  Chip off the old block (Ned in this case, not Catelyn).

 

- I agree with Choc Butterfly that Jaime is protecting Brienne (and Pod on behalf of Tyrion) more than he is protecting Sansa.  At least he is leaning in the right direction.  He is no longer doing what ever it takes to please Cersei.

 

 - I think there must have been an apprentice scar-creator make-up person on this episode because there seemed to be a Westerosi trend to facial scars (on the left hand side cheek).  Jon Snuh (thanks WS) had one as did Jaime & Locke.  I think I'm missing others but I haven't rewatched.  It just struck me how many there were this episode - and all on the same side of the face!

 

Thanks, Skywarpgold, for the link to the rules clarification.  They seem similar to the Boards on Boards rule at TWoP, so I can understand the reasons behind that. Also continued thanks for the WhiteCloak's work assisting our unsullied-ness.

 

[Pallas]

I also can't see how anyone would smuggle Sansa anywhere with plans to marry her to anyone since she's still currently married to Tyrion.  Unless he dies, she's off the marriage market for sure.

 

I think Littlefinger feels pretty good about that prospect right now.  

 

The whole poisoning plot makes me feel like I had too much wine and pie.  I agree that Littlefinger came up with the plot to implicate Sansa via the poison in the jewel (!), but as ChocButterfly and others have noted, Sansa's wearing the necklace can't have been a given, and Olenna's pick-necking the jewel could easily have gone awry.  And Tyrion's involvement -- his acting as cupbearer was another of Joffrey's fabulous improvisations (that threatens to cost another man his head) -- what if Tyrion had otherwise got no closer to Joffrey's wine or pie than the other end of the dais?  Who did the plotters expect to be blamed?  I suppose Tyrion and Sansa would still seem the only likely suspects, since the Tyrells seemed to be presenting a united front in plumping for the marriage, Tywin and Cersei would not suspect themselves or the other, and Tommen...huh.  Well, though in many ways Tommen had the most to gain...

 

Huh.  Tommen, tortured by Joffrey, nearly poisoned by his mother when Joffrey nearly allowed the city to fall, saved by the Tyrells, parted from his beloved sister (stop that!) by Tyrion's decree, and considered by all to be a sweet and harmless child...Well, that would be a hoot.  But no, I really don't get any intimation of Tommen's being the most deceptive player of them all -- Tommen as Prince Pounce.  I don't think.     

 

So it seems Tyrion's being named by Cersei was pure serendipity.  And perhaps, even, Olenna had a vial of her own in reserve if any part of the Sansa-necklace plot had failed.  Sansa is already under suspicion for having fled, with the necklace still undiscovered (for now).  Even her fleeing didn't depend on her wearing the fairy-tale necklace: she didn't know it was loaded; she didn't suspect that at last, she was finally living out a fairy tale...and she fled with Dontos anyway.  

 

Olenna must have agreed with Littlefinger that he would provide the poison and get Sansa to safety, while she murdered Joffrey and then returned to Highgarden to trim the roses.  And this happened...when?  After Littlefinger asked Sansa to come with him to the Vale, was refused by her, and then learned of and gave away Olenna's plan to marry Sansa to Loras?  After Tywin then, also, forced Olenna to agree to the Loras/Cersei match?  Who approached who?  What did Olenna ever need from Littlefinger, in order to off Joffrey?  Or what else does she believe she will gain from an alliance with him?  

[gingerella]

This whole necklace bullshit is, well, bullshit. Its gotta be one of the dumbest plotlines A Story had given us so far. So many holes in it, it must be Swiss.

As for the rest of the episode, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. For starters, that last WW offering alter scene? A Show, please! That CGI'd nonsense just looks riDICulous. It's as hoakie and lame as the smoke baby crapola. I realize that A Show has magic and thus, some things are not "realistic" in the world as we know it, but come the fuck ON. Really? WWs with devil horns turning babies into what exactly? That stuff comes off to me as gratuitous crap and it makes me not want to continue watching A Show.

Margaery "beginning to seduce" the Boy King, Ser Poof? I think not. That? Was a ridiculous scene too.

Olenna suddenly laying out clearly and in great detail, how Joffs bit the dust? That is so unlike A Show to spoonfeed A Viewer with every.little.detail.

It almost feels like someone else wrote and directed this episode because it felt so off to me.

Brienne and Pod? Love it, but hope we dont lose track of them because I adore them both.

Edited April 29, 2014 by gingerella

[Snowblack]

Olenna must have agreed with Littlefinger that he would provide the poison and get Sansa to safety, while she murdered Joffrey and then returned to Highgarden to trim the roses.  And this happened...when?  After Littlefinger asked Sansa to come with him to the Vale, was refused by her, and then learned of and gave away Olenna's plan to marry Sansa to Loras?  After Tywin then, also, forced Olenna to agree to the Loras/Cersei match?  Who approached who?  What did Olenna ever need from Littlefinger, in order to off Joffrey?  Or what else does she believe she will gain from an alliance with him?  

 

This.  I still can't wrap my head around why Olenna and LF would be behind the poisoning.  Sansa had it right when she said there wasn't sufficient motive.  Yes, I know: chaos is a ladda.  It presents many opportunities for a man like LF.  But LF was already getting what he wanted from Tywin...a marriage to probably the most powerful widow in Westeros.  And Tywin is in charge, regardless of which grandson wears the crown.  If anything, a do-gooder like Tommen on the throne is a detriment to LF.  So why mess with a good thing?

 

And Olenna...the only explanation for her wanting Joffrey dead so badly is that she was truly in fear of what would happen to her granddaughter as Joffrey's wife.  It makes no sense that a woman who has such faith in Margaery's abilities has so little faith in Margaery's abilities.  Either she can handle herself or she can't.  She had Joffrey wrapped around her finger, and once she bore his heir, she was every bit as capable of arranging a hunting accident as Cersei was before her. 

 

It just makes no sense.  The only possibility I can think of is if they also plan to kill Tywin after Margaery marries Tommen.  Then Margaery is essentially the ruler of Westeros.  Is that too far-fetched? 

[Llywela]

Blimey. I assumed Olenna had something to do with the poisoning just because the narrative framing of the episode seemed to be setting her up as a culprit, lots of lingering, shifty shots, plus that direct focus during the 'let no man put them assunder' part of the vows. And then everyone here was looking at screenshots of the infamous necklace grab (which does seem clear on rewatch, one of those details designed to be picked up with hindsight, I guess, modern TV is full of 'em), which seemed to clinch it. But I couldn't see a clear motive. And I still can't.

 

Chalk it up as a contrivance designed to move the plot forward, I guess.

[Pallas]

I do believe Olenna had seen enough of her world and Joffrey to decide that no person would ever be safe with him: especially a female, especially an intimate. She knows an oaf is one thing and a sadist quite another.  She knew Margaery pined to be Queen, but Olenna herself had enough perspective to see what that prospect was worth in itself (not joy galore), and what it was worth when the price was a nasty, brutish and short life with Joffrey.  I believe she was, as ever, ready to take what action was demanded, and prepared to do the deed herself: just as she did when it came to enthralling Mace.  

 

What I still don't see is what she needed Littlefinger for, or hopes to gain from him in future.  Did her powers of perception fail her when it comes to a ruthless climber like him, or has her confidence led her astray?  Did she need him as a source of intelligence about the state of the Throne's finances?  Maybe -- she seems well informed -- but that still doesn't tally with her conspiring with him to commit regicide.  

[stillshimpy]

This.  I still can't wrap my head around why Olenna and LF would be behind the poisoning.

 

It's the working with Littlefinger that really is the stumper for me.  Here's why: Everything Sansa said to Littlefinger about what he had gotten from the Lannisters is true.  He's been made the Lord of Harrenhal -- yes, it's a derelict pile but apparently it's a coveted derelict pile -- he's been given a woman in marriage who has another coveted and unassailable property.   The Lannisters have been good to him and if Sansa knows this, so does Olenna.  

 

That's where it becomes a great big "Okay, so we'll just put that down to the contrivance of fiction and the need for this plot catalyst, because it doesn't make a lot of human sense....unless Olenna is slowly losing her mind to mercury poisoning or something" because whereas I can see Olenna deciding "Nope, she'd be better off with the not particularly bright kid than the vicious one who, when he tires of Margaery, will entertain himself by hurting her".  That part makes sense to me.  Working with Littlefinger? Hell. No.  It does not make sense.  Reason being that Littlefinger isn't just betraying the Lannisters in favor of a new alliance with the Martels (the people he keeps calling his New Friends)....he's viciously backstabbing the Lannisters as his opening move to his new alliance.  

 

This was after thwarting Olenna's plan to have Sansa marry Loras, so he's already done damage to the Martels and Olenna isn't a dimwitted woman.  If she can tell that Joffrey will not always be so pliable to Margaery's charms....and she'd know that, understanding men and presumably monsters...then she ought to be able to spot that Littlefinger is forty times more dangerous.  

 

He's murdering the heir of his last alliance to form his new one.  Why would Olenna risk getting into figurative bed with that? 

[MrMicrophone]

If LF planted the idea in Joff's head to Kill Ned Stark (an easy idea to plant) -- then couldn't someone have planted the idea to have a bit of fun at Tyrion's expense?

[Pallas]

Replying in our Speculation thread.  

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Yes, I know: chaos is a ladda.  It presents many opportunities for a man like LF.  But LF was already getting what he wanted from Tywin...a marriage to probably the most powerful widow in Westeros.  And Tywin is in charge, regardless of which grandson wears the crown.  If anything, a do-gooder like Tommen on the throne is a detriment to LF.  So why mess with a good thing?

 

LF pretty clearly said why Joffrey had to go. He was dangerous, unpredictable, and petty. That's like nitroglycerine (or wildfire) Just waiting to go off. YOu might think you have it bottled up but all it takes is one wrong move and you're burning down all of King's Landing. I have to agree with him/Olenna: Joffrey could not be "handled". Not reliably.

[MrMicrophone]

abe,

someone above had advanced the Idea that it wasn't actually rape -- that it was just How They Liked It (maybe Cercei even gets a safeword that isn't kicking Jaime in the balls).

 

Seems like not even mentioning it this ep lends that theory a bit of creedance.

Edited April 29, 2014 by MrMicrophone

[90PercentGravity]

It's possible that Cersei's first sexual experience was being raped by her twin, so it may seem "normal" to her, but that doesn't mean that it is. The victim doesn't have to think it is rape for it to be rape, that's kind of the whole premise of statutory rape laws, in fact.

[ChocButterfly]

She doesn't mention it directly, because, what for? It's not like they're very communicative. But she's clearly even MORE pissed than before. Even Jaimie is all distant, calling her "your Grace".  If it had been consensual, they would both be on better terms by now. It was clearly rape, and they clearly both hate each other now.

[stillshimpy]

Seems like not even mentioning it this ep lends that theory a bit of creedance.

 

I disagree entirely.  Cersei is beyond frosty to Jaime.  She treats him like an employee for much of their exchange and then dismisses him as such also.  So the word "rape" was not used, nor was the encounter referred to, but Cersei was drunk -- even for Cersei -- and frostily angry with Jaime.  That really didn't in anyway suggest that "that's just the way they do-the-do" to me. 

[Pallas]

Could Cersei mostly be mourning the end of what she thought was her and Jaime's great love?  Or rather, what she knew as Jaime's great love for her?  She's right that no one can take away from a parent the memory of a child's love, not even the child.  A lover, though, can seem to set a backfire burning through all memory, and scorch the past.

 

Jaime and Cersei have lived their whole lives together in the same houses and so far as we know, spent their first time apart in their 40th year.  Apart, they suffered a good deal more than each other's absence, but they also suffered that.  They are not only twins but partners in two family firms, Lannister and Baratheon. They are also lovers for what seems likely to be nearly 25 years, with three children.  

 

Now they are divorcing, and despairing separately.  Cersei has initiated the rupture, while blaming him for it. Jaime has resisted the rupture, while condemning her. Cersei has also lost the son she realizes only she ever loved, and loved more than she loved anyone.  She has chosen to blame the brother she hates, the one who made no secret of detesting her child.  She blames Tyrion for Joffrey's death in part, I think, because she understands that all her menfolk -- her late husband, her father and her twin, Joffrey's father -- loved him not.  She blames Tyrion because she blames them all.  

 

In these last terrible years, all Cersei's menfolk denied her: Robert, as he always had but more explicitly; Tywin, who assumed the role of Regent in all but name and betrothed her to the brother of her son's fiance; Tyrion, who sent her daughter away and mocked both her and her son; Joffrey himself, who died celebrating leaving her; and finally Jaime, who left her alone with them all, failed to rescue her -- "You took too long" -- and returned less than he was, and bound in some way to a woman as freakish as their brother.

 

Cersei had imagined, with good reason, that Jaime would kill anyone who harmed or threatened her.  Now he's not only unable, he's unwilling.  She watched her father steal her remaining son from her, over the dead body of her other.  She then watched Jaime pledge himself to the living son, while she remained with the body of their firstborn.  When he joined her, she tried asking him to share her grief with her, to feel some grief with her, and he came up empty.  All she asked of him after that was that he kill the man who killed their son, and he demurred.  "He's my brother," he said.  "You're a hateful woman," he said. He cursed his (worthless) love for her, and showed what she was worth to him.  "I don't care," he said.  That you don't want me, that our son is dead, that our brother killed him, that I love him and not you.  I don't care.

 

I don't care.  This is what it comes to.  This is what it always was.  This is all it ever was, our great love.  Our great love that survived everything, that ruined everything.  Our great love was just the war for Cercei's c***.    

[Ariadne]

Awesome post Pallas!

 

I can only agree with everyone about how ridiculous the poisoning plot turned out to be. I based my theory of Olenna trying to poison Cersei on what I saw in the actual episode, there's no way she could have poisoned that cup. It was about 3 metres from her after Margaery put it down, she would have to have thrown it - and what if Margaery hadn't put it near her?. I can only presume it made more sense in the books and it was a poorly directed and edited scene.

 

Praying for Meera, praying for Hodor and I don't think Jojen will live through the season - he's completely surplus to requirements even now and especially when Bran gets to the guy with the tree.

 

Jon and Bran aren't going to meet, no way will the show give us a Stark reunion.

[MrMicrophone]

Pallas,

I think Cercei is mad with Grief. She's... not one to actually be this ... vindictive and stupid.

I mean, Cercei knew that Ned was looking into her children, and she didn't order him killed!

Even IF she did kill Jon Arryn, it was after he had figured out her secret.

 

She's becoming a paranoid drunken sod. (seriously? wanting Sansa's head?)

 

I think Cercei is just as jealous of Brienne as Margaery, and is upset that Jaime found someone to

rely on -- in the capital, she had nothing. 

[Pallas]

I based my theory of Olenna trying to poison Cersei on what I saw in the actual episode, there's no way she could have poisoned that cup. It was about 3 metres from her after Margaery put it down, she would have to have thrown it - and what if Margaery hadn't put it near her? 

 

Thanks. Ariadne, and I agree: it looks like we have to assume the poison was concealed in or on the jewel -- and after that, we need to further assume that Olenna eased her way to the goblet when Joffrey was cutting the pie, and perhaps stood briefly behind Margaery as she did the deed.  Not that we saw her do so, mind you, or saw her do more than rise and sit back down as (most of) the doves escaped, but.  She was at least closer to the goblet than she ever was to the real pie.

 

My best guess is that something undetected in the taping of the scene fouled up a number of takes and the editor finally had to shrug and say,  "Look, that's the best we can do.  They're not supposed to see who did it, anyway."   

 

I agree that while Jaime has been given a boost by Brienne onto the 11:59 out of Hell, Cersei has gone 'round the bend.  Grief for Joffrey and jealousy of Brienne: in Cersei's mind, the reborn Jaime's new nurserymate.  Cersei knows him.  She probably feels she is him, as Catherine Earnshaw declared.  Long ago, Jaime sought to be the pure knight that Brienne has become, at far longer odds. Cersei know what Jaime sees in Brienne: himself; his best self.  As shimpy put it, Brienne is "the keeper of his better nature." Like Tywin, Cersei never had much use for his better nature, and especially not now.  She wishes it were dead instead of Joffrey. Along with Sansa -- who didn't even have the guts to watch him die! -- and everyone who did.  

 

But meanwhile, Tyrion has to be wrong sometime, and I think he may be wrong about Cersei's priors.  Cersei may always have relied on knowing she had but to say the word, and Jaime...She may have preferred to caress that threat, rather than unleash it. Cersei seethes and frets; she isn't reckless: it's the first thing we learn about her, in that first conversation with Jaime, near another body (in the same Sept?).  I think it's possible that like Sansa -- her other twin -- Cersei isn't a killer, yet.

[DemosthenesKey]

Had a maid beaten until her eyes fell out of her sockets, maybe, but no killer.

[Pallas]

Ordering the beating of a servant take nothing but money and malice.  Cersei's always had plenty of both.  Murdering a peer requires a little audacity, and that's what I think Cersei may lack.  When she's sober, anyway, and until now.   

[stillshimpy]

I think it's possible that like Sansa -- her other twin -- Cersei isn't a killer, yet.

 

Disturbing relationships with siblings aside, thank goodness, I think it's the other way around in terms of which character might be mirroring the other. I've pretty much got no doubt in my mind that Cersei has had people killed for the sake of expediency.  I've no doubt on Jon Arryn, although in keeping with a nearly Lostian motif , A Show hardly ever provides clear answers.  However, that's the only thing I'm putting that down to "yeah, they hardly ever have a character answer directly, in part because people in life frequently don't directly answer questions", also a lot of the scenes surrounding Cersei and Jaime don't bother to have them perform exposition-fairy-duty.  

 

Like Jaime and Cersei standing by Jon Arryn's corpse.  Sure, neither came  directly out and said "Whew, we friggin' killed him in the nick-o-time.  What a relief, as he had just found out about our treasonous and incestuous love!"  "Yes indeed, good apothecary, thy poison was swift...it was poison, was it not, Twin Sister of mine?"  "Indeed it was, Twin Brother of Mine." 

 

Instead of having characters address one another with information that fills everyone in, they talk to each other as two people who actually already know what they've both done....which is fitting.  So much drama relies on people talking in such a stilted, manufactured way.  Most people seem to speak to each other in some kind of Assumption Shorthand, both in life and definitely in close relationships.  

 

Anyway, that's what I put "Do we actually know if Cerse has killed anyone?" with her own hands?  No, but who do you think ordered Micah -- the unfortunate butcher's boy -- run down and killed?  It seems unlikely to me that Cersei just talks about a whole lot about people being killed (she flat-out told Ned that she killed her enemies, or was it destroyed?  )   

 

I think it Sansa who reflects what Cersei might have been, for about thirteen minutes in her extreme youth.  Someone who wanted to believe in pretty tales and happy endings.  Life very quickly taught her otherwise, and unlike Sansa, I don't think it took Cersei many years to adapt.  Like the time she prayed for her mother to return?  I don't think she then pined for years, hoping.  Maybe, at a hugely generous estimate, she pined for a fortnight and then proceeded swiftly into "God-almighty-pissed-off that she hadn't been given what she wanted and proceeded to blame the gods themselves and Tyrion in particular."  

 

I think the only way Cersei is actually innocent of murder is on the extreme technicality that she's never used her own hands.  

Edited May 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[MrMicrophone]

shimpy,

Betcha five will get you ten Cersei didn't order Micah run down and killed. "Find the butcher's boy" was what she said, I'll bet you doughnuts.

 

Because Cersei? She wanted executions, wanted something public. She couldn't have known that Sansa would lie -- but she could browbeat the butcher's boy into a confession...

[WhiteStumbler]

I think Micah was Joffrey. Micah and Arya witnessed his humiliation (so sweet) next to the river on The Kingsroad. He couldn't kill Arya, so...

The only death (& it's a big one) I lay directly at Cersei's feet is Lady. Maybe J Arryn, but def Lady.

ETA Mr. Mic: Cersei & public execution. I can see it, just think more likely Joffrey.

Edited May 2, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[stillshimpy]

Robert was still alive when Micah was killed.  I don't think anyone was following Joffrey's orders, at least solely Joffrey's orders.  I think those were Lannister orders and likely Cersei's, but we don't know for sure. 

 

I just sort of doubt that Cersei is just misunderstood and just TALKS about having people killed, to the extent that even Tyrion believes it. 

[Pallas]

I wouldn't say Cersei's misunderstood as much as over-estimated.  Yes, I think even Tyrion retains a fear of her, and a belief in the efficacy of her malice, from when they were children and she could do whatever she liked to do him -- and no doubt did, at least when Jaime's back was turned.  I see the adult Cersei as being paralyzed by depression and anxiety: maimed, in a way.  A half-woman.  

 

I don't think Cersei ever completely recovered the ego-blow of Robert's complete apathy toward her, his real lack of desire or interest in any aspect of her -- apathy that probably only became hatred because he was nonetheless yoked to her and her pain and his guilt.  Most of all, I don't think she really survived the ongoing threat of discovery of her affair with Jaime and what that would mean to her and her children.  I think the secret undid her.  I think it has left her trapped, panicked into paralysis, unstrung into inertia broken by fits of booze and bad behavior, that may never yet have crossed the line into murdering who might hurt her first.   

 

Torturing servants, allowing Joffrey his way with the butcher's boy...she risked nothing.  Not only because the servant and Micah were lowborn, but also because they didn't touch upon her great vulnerability: the affair.  (Or maybe the servant "saw" -- I don't remember what we heard -- but if so, Cersei still left her alive.)  Of course she might have had Jon Arryn poisoned if he found her out. We know she wasn't sure he knew.  I think she also might have frozen in fear, unable to make any move at all, until she was certain that he knew -- and even then...I think she might have done what she did when she knew Ned was closing in on the secret: nothing; she waited it out, sneering and japing but unmoving.  Frozen like a prey animal.     

 

All we know is that when she knew Ned had found her out, she didn't order him gutted, or have him arrested (until Robert died) and dispatched after that. Yes: Robert was as good as dead and she felt safer -- but she still wasn't safe, because that secret can never leave her safe, nor any of their children.  Yet even after Ned took action against her, she was content to have him falsely confess and be banished to the Wall.  Absolutely, there were politic reasons for sparing Ned, and I don't think she did so out of kindness or mercy.  Maybe a little pity, for another prey animal. 

 

We are meant to suspect her; other characters suspect her; other characters have told us to suspect her.  I think Cersei's a lot worse than "no better than she needs to be."  She has done more damage to the people she loved, than to her enemies. That may be all she can claim.

[gingerella]

I am surprised so many of you think Cersei is incapable, or has not "killed" before. She is a vindictive, spiteful, mean, bitch who is becoming almost as mentally fucked in the noggin as her demented offspring was. In a nutshell, she is batshit crazy. To me, she posesses all the star qualities of a sociopath.

[Pallas]

I hear you, gingerella!  Replying in the Cersei thread.  

[WhiteStumbler]

stillshimpy:

"I don't think anyone was following Joffrey's orders" (at the time Micah was killed).

What about The Hound? In Dondarrion's cave he was asked about killing Micah and said "Not my place to question princes." That one was Joffrey. Cersei directly lead to the death of Lady, and maybe J Arryn. That is all.

Indirectly, sure, thousands. I think she is capable of it, but Cersei hasn't been shown to have killed any human.

ETA copied to Cersei thread

Edited May 4, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[DirewolfPup]

Upon re-watching this episode a few days ago, I've concluded that this is my least favorite episode of the season. Because I love lists:

 

Good Things that Happened

• Brienne and Jamie scenes
• Tyrion with Jamie
• Jon Snow's leadership is taking shape

 

Good &/or Bad

• Littlefinger w/ Sansa
• Jewelry-gate exposition
• Dany takes Maureen - we all love a good Dany conquer, but lots of death and screaming puts a damper on the celebrations

 

Bad

• Crasters Keep - so much gratuitous rape. even in the skull drinking dialogue scenes, there was rape in the background.
• Bran captured by the NW mutineers. Just great.
• Babies turned into WW. That was way way too long to hear sad, crying babies. I got lumps in my chest watching that poor baby.
• Dead slave children

 

My tagline after watching the episode: "Game of Thrones: Come for the crying babies, stay for the rape..."

Basically the last 15 minutes of the show were deeply gross, sad, and depressing. It doesn't sit well with me when I'm supposed to sleep later.

[stillshimpy]

See, this is one I have steadfastly chosen to let one viewing suffice.   Almost anything that involves Craster's Camp for Incest and Infantcicle Production comes a bit too close to being genuinely offensive, vs. merely truly upsetting.  

 

Plus, wow, I just can't even stand anything having to do with the sword Tywin had made from the Stark family sword.  Plus The Affair of the Necklace still makes me alternately sneer at the sheer stupidity of the entire plot to kill Joffrey.  I can only imagine that it was less....cartoonish, James-Bond-and-a-swimming-pool-of-sharks on a page.  Since I'm never going to know one way or the other, I laugh alternately because, for real, that ends up being closer to Get Smart than James Bond.  

[WhiteStumbler]

I love the fact that at least past of Eddard's sword is in the hands of Brienne, who is trying to find and protect Sansa (and so will probably end up dead). I wish that Brienne had POINTED THAT OUT when she met up with Arya + The Hound in S4E10, instead of saying "Jaime Lannister gave me this sword."

WRONG. ANSWER.

[Anothermi]

I love the fact that at least past of Eddard's sword is in the hands of Brienne, who is trying to find and protect Sansa (and so will probably end up dead). I wish that Brienne had POINTED THAT OUT when she met up with Arya + The Hound in S4E10, instead of saying "Jaime Lannister gave me this sword."

WRONG. ANSWER.

I can't help but think there would have been no RIGHT answer in that circumstance. Did Brienne even know the sword Jaime gave her was once Ned's Sword? It wouldn't matter if she did and said so because Arya wouldn't have waited to have the nuances explained - "My sword was made from part of your father's legendary sword by the dastardly Tywin Lannister, but I will use it for ..."  

 

I think for Arya it would be a symbolic revisiting of her father's beheading and reason enough to vow death to anyone associated with it.