S01.E01: Somebody's Dead

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

In the premiere of an adaptation of Liane Moriarty's novel set in a seemingly idyllic seaside California town, a suspicious death at an elementary school fund-raiser exposes rivalries simmering beneath the superficial comity among some of the parents.

Promo:

[Primetimer]

Do you need these desperate housewives on your DVR?

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[krawz555]

I'm sure everyone's gonna get tired of hearing from us "bookworms" claiming "the book is better! The book is better!" cuz, we'll, it usually is. I'll give this a chance though. All of Liane Moriarty's books are set in Australia, as this book was and it was kindergarten, not 1st grade. Don't know why they made that small detail change. The book was pretty spot on about the different types of moms at schools. We'll see how this show plays that out. If your a parent you know those types and what type you fall into!!

[Onfire444]

I read the book and was disappointed the TV show didn't take place in Australia, as the setting was part of the appeal for me. In enjoyed seeing the similarities and differences between Australian and American suburban moms, plus there are soooo many shows and movies in California, an Australian setting would have been fun to watch and listen to!

[mojoween]

I can't relate to any of these people, including Jane, except that I really wish I still had room for a papa-san chair in my house.

However, and it's been long enough since I read the book that this is basically new to me, I did like it.

A review I saw said that the Greek chorus is either funny or annoying and I loved it.  That part of the book I do remember and am glad they kept it.

The teacher staging an inquisition in front of the entire class is a TERRIBLE way to suss out a culprit.

[CleoCaesar]

Other forums I read are overrun with "I can't relate to this show" complaints about "Big Little Lies". I don't get it. Why do people need to "relate" to something to enjoy it? And it seems to be a common criticism of this show in particular. People seem fine with watching stuff like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Westworld, etc. and no one says "I can't relate to this". But when it's upper class mothers and their children and all bets are off.

Love the casting most of all so far, especially Reese Witherspoon. The only reason I can guess for the change from Australia to California is they didn't want non-Aussie actors butchering the accent. It's not a great guess but it's all I have.

[Valny]

Liked what I've seen so far.....and I do enjoy a good murder mystery.  I didn't miss anything did I? They didn't show who died right?

The locale is gorgeous.  I am wondering how can Jane(?) afford to live there? Or is she not living in the same area as Reese and Nicole's characters?

[KenyaJ]

I enjoyed the first episode. It made me want to read the book, but I'll hold off until this is over so I don't spoil myself and don't end up comparing the two.

Monterey County is one of my favorite places on earth, so this is total locale porn to me. I'd watch it for that alone.

[Chaos Theory]

Free HBO is fun especially when you are in a month when nothing much is on.  Downside is HBO has never really had anything that I have really enjoyed.  I WANT to like this.  I adore Nichole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern but again this is not something I would PAY extra to watch.  

I am not sure calling these women unrelatavle is the right word.  Vaugely unlikeable might be a better one.  Reese Witherspoons's character is like a lot of bitter divorced women I know whose teenage children are closer to the step mom who treats them like a friend and father's who are always up for a good time and resents the fact that they are always the bad guy.  I did like Nichole Kidman playing the older woman married to a younger man.  

[Steph01924]

I just read the book a few weeks ago and I really enjoyed it, so I'm looking forward to this mini-series. I was considering waiting, but I think knowing the book gives some of the lines and little looks and scenes a bit more meaning, knowing what's coming. It does feel a bit different since it's not in Australia and everyone has entered this suuuper rich stratosphere, but I think it'll be worthy of watching in its own right. Reese was great as Madeline and so was Laura as Renata. The child actors were particularly spunky, and I look forward to seeing more of them.

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

Other forums I read are overrun with "I can't relate to this show" complaints about "Big Little Lies". I don't get it. Why do people need to "relate" to something to enjoy it? And it seems to be a common criticism of this show in particular. People seem fine with watching stuff like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Westworld, etc. and no one says "I can't relate to this". But when it's upper class mothers and their children and all bets are off.

I mostly agree. There are times when the subject matter / characters so turn me off that I don't want to relate, but I don't feel that way about this. Putting aside their first world privileges and problems, I would think many people can relate to how Madeline is feeling about her children (I don't even have children but I could totally sympathize with her long-standing grudge against her ex-husband and how she felt she was losing her daughter to the "fun" parents), how Celeste is obviously in a complicated relationship, and how Jane seems completely lost within her own life. Even how Renata feels attacked about being a working mom. Yeah, we all can't complain about these problems while we stare out at the ocean from our expensive backyards, but the feelings are real and relatable. 

55 minutes ago, Valny said:

I didn't miss anything did I? They didn't show who died right?

The locale is gorgeous.  I am wondering how can Jane(?) afford to live there? Or is she not living in the same area as Reese and Nicole's characters?

No, in the book they don't reveal the murderer / victim until the final few chapters, so I imagine they will be going for the same suspense here. It was quite maddening, in a good way.

46 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I enjoyed the first episode. It made me want to read the book, but I'll hold off until this is over so I don't spoil myself and don't end up comparing the two.

Probably a wise choice! I'm can be an uncontrollable spoiler (for myself only) sometimes, and a book lover first and foremost, so I always feel the urge to read the book and then watch with a critical eye. But sometimes you just need to enjoy the work for what it is!

6 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure calling these women unrelatavle is the right word.  Vaugely unlikeable might be a better one.  Reese Witherspoons's character is like a lot of bitter divorced women I know whose teenage children are closer to the step mom who treats them like a friend and father's who are always up for a good time and resents the fact that they are always the bad guy. 

I can see that. I think the book has an edge, where it does many times, in that you are able to see into the women's' heads and really understand their motivations from the get-go, and that's usually impossible to accomplish right away on screen. Like I began to like Madeline more when you learn more about her divorce, for example, and you begin to understand her particular reactions, which I'm sure they will bring up in future episodes. But with TV I feel people are sometimes less inclined to give the characters the same chances they would while reading a book. 

[Razzberry]

I was hoping I wouldn't like it, but may have to re-up my HBO.   The cast is stellar, the scenery gorgeous, and the murder mystery seems promising.

[CleoCaesar]

43 minutes ago, Steph01924 said:

I mostly agree. There are times when the subject matter / characters so turn me off that I don't want to relate, but I don't feel that way about this. Putting aside their first world privileges and problems, I would think many people can relate to how Madeline is feeling about her children (I don't even have children but I could totally sympathize with her long-standing grudge against her ex-husband and how she felt she was losing her daughter to the "fun" parents), how Celeste is obviously in a complicated relationship, and how Jane seems completely lost within her own life. Even how Renata feels attacked about being a working mom. Yeah, we all can't complain about these problems while we stare out at the ocean from our expensive backyards, but the feelings are real and relatable.

I guess I don't get why "relating" to characters at all is a thing. Is it imagining myself as the characters? That seems pretty pointless to me personally. Is it just sympathizing with the characters? That's more understandable, but some of the best, most complex, most enjoyable characters in literature are irredeemable bastards with no morals or conscience. So I don't need to like the characters in order to enjoy the story. Maybe the issue of relating to characters (what it is and why so many people seem to need it) will have to remain a mystery to me.

Quote

Putting aside their first world privileges and problems

Like murder, domestic violence, social ostracism?

[LoveLeigh]

I can "relate" to these women in some ways because I grew up in the suburbs of Long Island... but that aside I disliked the first episode. It just was boring to me and I was not engaged in the story. It is HBO's version of "Desperate Housewives, 2017." 

I just do not care about any of the characters or their children. 

[chocolatine]

I think the most engaging aspect of Liane Moriarty's writing in general, and Big Little Lies in particular, is how she intersperses funny/snarky and dark. Madeline especially is a hilariously written character. The show, IMO, completely missed the funny - it was all dark and moody. I'll keep watching to see if it gets better, but the first episode missed the mark for me.

[acid burn]

Glad to see Alexander Skarsgard back on my Sunday night TV lineup. Not glad to see he's apparently reprising his roles from that crappy Straw Dogs remake and Gaga's Paparazzi video. 

In summary, stop playing abusive dickholes, A.Skars! It makes it very hard for me to objectify you. I mean, I'll still *do* it, obviously, but I'm probably gonna feel a little bit dirty about it.

[Artsda]

I enjoyed it, interested to see the mystery unravel. 

[PerPlexied]

I can suspend disbelief for most things-- but am I seriously supposed to go along with Reese Witherspoon's character needing a ride and abandoning her car for rolling her ankle?! That's some real sketchy writing. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by PerPlexied

[Minneapple]

Moriarty's descriptions of the Aussie town and school are so cute that I missed them on the show.

The first episode disappointed me a bit. I dunno, the humor was missing? Something off about the character of Madeline? But I'll probably stay with it.

Yes, yes, another reader blabbing on about how great the book is vs. the show. Sorry. I will try to refrain.

[dmc]

something about the writing was off during the first episode...maybe it will get better for the second...
also who choked the little girl?

[veronicamers]

I enjoyed it and the performances. I feel like this is the role Reese has been building up to her entire career. She was really good. I found a lot of small moments very relateable. I have elementary age kids. They go to a public school in a pretty well-to-do neighborhood. Maddy's line "It's like private school at public school price!" was just spot on. My husband and I are not wealthy, but we happen to have a living situation that allows us to be in this school district. And there is a feeling of a visible dividing line along classes at times. I'm hoping there is a little more to Adam Scott's "consolation prize" character. I adore him.

Edited February 20, 2017 by veronicamers

[Eyes High]

Do moms nowadays really let their teen daughters talk to them the way Abigail was talking to Madeline in this episode? Is that a thing? Because if I had tried that shit with my mother not so many years ago, I don't think I would have lived to regret it.

I was watching this episode with my husband, who was like "Why is Reese Witherspoon's character married to someone 20 years younger?" When I told him that Adam Scott is in fact older than Reese Witherspoon, he couldn't believe it. 

I was pleased to see that a Quebecois director is directing all seven episodes. Canadians represent!...Although I wasn't loving the camerawork in certain shots, so there is that.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Eyes High

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I read the book a few years ago and I will watch just about anything that's set in a beach town because I miss living in San Diego, so I was looking forward to this show starting. All the gorgeous shots of the ocean from their various decks/backyards would have made the whole episode worthwhile for me.

The biggest reaction I had to this episode was that I am SO glad I don't have kids because dealing with the politics with other parents would be enough to make me want to home school my kids (and of course, then I'd be like, "GET OUT OF THE HOUSE, KIDS! I NEED SOME QUIET!").

It's been a while since I read this book so off the top of my head, I couldn't even remember any of the characters' names before the episode started. Some of the plot started to come back to me pretty quickly though so things felt familiar (but still new since the people who were cast look nothing like the way I pictured the characters in my head). I don't remember all of the dirty little secrets, so it will be fun to rediscover the book through the show.

The Greek chorus doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I like that they provide additional points of view about the main characters. I can see how some of the characters can come off as unlikable because we aren't getting their inner monologues so we don't understand them quite as well (at least not yet), but I think the pilot did a decent job showing us some of the emotional issues that Madeline, Jane, Celeste, and Renata have so that we can understand them a little better.

I'm used to Maddie being a brat on Nashville, but Abigail is up there too. What a pill. At least Chloe is still a positive kid to be around. Poor Madeline. It's bad enough to have to see your ex and his new younger wife around town all the time, but to have their kids in the same first grade class? Despite Bonnie spouting hippie whatever after yoga, at least she had the balls to tell Madeline she had signed that petition before she knew Madeline was involved. Nathan, the little shit, clearly would have been fine never telling Madeline. Hiding behind his kid and snickering when he saw Bonnie was about to tell Madeline sealed the deal: the principal was right about Nathan being a dick!

Even though I'm not divorced with kids, I can understand why Madeline is so resentful - her husband divorced her and married a younger woman, leaving Madeline to be the disciplinarian while he gets to be the fun parent. And on top of all that, Abigail LIKES Bonnie so she isn't just losing Abigail to being a snarky pain in the ass teenager who doesn't want to be around her mom. Now she's also losing her daughter to her ex's cool new wife. That must be so frustrating and painful.

Laura Dern is making Renata as annoying as I remember her being in the book. The way she refers to her daughter as "my Amabella" makes my eyes roll. One thing I appreciate about Madeline is how quickly she became loyal to Jane. She just met her that day and she was already defending her from Renata's obnoxious assumption that Jane was a nanny.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[CofCinci]

I'm confused....  Haven't read the book.  Can someone illuminate me?  Madeline's daughter entering first grade.  Is that her kid with her first husband or second husband?

The house porn on this series is amazing.

[walnutqueen]

Liked it - a lot, and am intrigued by the story slowly unfolding.

I'm not fond of book talk permeating the episode threads of ANY show I watch, though.  :-(

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

I'm confused....  Haven't read the book.  Can someone illuminate me?  Madeline's daughter entering first grade.  Is that her kid with her first husband or second husband?

Second husband. Abigail (the teenager) is Madeline and Nathan's daughter, Chloe (the first-grader) is Madeline and Ed's daughter, and Skye (also a first-grader) is Nathan and Bonnie's daughter.

[stagmania]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

I'm confused....  Haven't read the book.  Can someone illuminate me?  Madeline's daughter entering first grade.  Is that her kid with her first husband or second husband?

The house porn on this series is amazing.

Second husband-thus the whole bit of business where the ex tried to claim his younger child as her half sister, which Madeline pointed out isn't actually the case. Madeline's older daughter is his daughter's half sister; Madeline's youngest isn't, but the two share a sibling.

I'm in on this show. Great actresses, great scenery, a mystery and bonus Adam Scott. What more could you need?

[film noire]

13 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

 some of the best, most complex, most enjoyable characters in literature are irredeemable bastards with no morals or conscience.

I agree. I also don't need characters to be "likeable" to invest in them. As long as they're compelling (which often comes alongside "unlikeable" - Betty Draper, Livia Soprano, Francis Urquhart) I'll end up caring.   

3 hours ago, veronicamers said:

 I feel like this is the role Reese has been building up to her entire career. She was really good. 

I've liked her work well enough over the years, but I agree, she was excellent in this episode - keeping dozens of plates spinning, both storywise (driving the narrative, which I assume the character does in the book) but also personifying the school/town culture without slipping into too comic or too brittle -- Laura Dern also nailed that line for me ( I've met that woman. Many times). And Jean-Marc Vallée's direction was great.  Shailene Woodley disappeared for me, but it's hard to play a cipher when the character is also not meant to be a charisma machine and as the story (presumably) reveals more about her, she might pop more.

The kid playing her son, Ziggy, is adorable.

Edited February 20, 2017 by film noire

[iMonrey]

Quote

Other forums I read are overrun with "I can't relate to this show" complaints about "Big Little Lies". I don't get it. Why do people need to "relate" to something to enjoy it?

I don't have to relate to the characters if they are interesting. At this point, I'm not sure how interesting I find these characters. And a lot of that is because . . . I can't relate to them. I'm not a suburban mom with a kid going to a posh school. I'm not especially inclined to care about such people as a result. Therefore, these characters and/or their story needs to grab my attention somehow - I need to find something to care about, or why should I watch? That's where relatability comes into play. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have never had a kid but I loved the book.  I really liked it, but it may be me anticipating what's to come.  I thought the music - the opening song - was sensational.  

Adam Scott is so welcome on my TV screen.  I agree, the humour of Madeleine was somewhat lost, but I think it's really hard to strike the tone of the book which had goofy humour but also dark themes.  

I love how the first episode unfolds just as the beginning of the book does.  I'm really impressed.

The detective's obsession with the lighter, I thought, was so silly.  

To me, the Greek chorus is stupid.  Not necessary, and annoying.  And, mostly because

 

Nothing of what is said by them in this first episode so far actually ends up being remotely relevant to the murder.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Brookside]

This reminded me way too much of The Affair, which was boring and irritating by minute 5 of the second episode.  I'll try the next episode of this one, but don't hold high hopes.

[atlantaloves]

I could only take 15 minutes of this dreck, the dialogue was so horrible. I am already done done done to a crisp, and I was so looking forward to it.  Oh well. Rich people problems do not interest me.  

[Kiss my mutt]

They need to get Kidman a better wig as usual. I'm surprised at how off her American accent is here. She usually does better. 

[stagmania]

5 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

They need to get Kidman a better wig as usual. I'm surprised at how off her American accent is here. She usually does better. 

Is she trying to do an American accent? I thought her natural accent was clear in her first scene and assumed she wasn't doing one. Admittedly, I don't have the best ear for that stuff.

[chocolatine]

7 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

I also love that Laura Dern played Reese Witherspoon's mother in Wild, and now they are being portrayed as having kids the same age (with Witherspoon actually having one much older.)  I know people can have kids at wildly varying ages, but Dern definitely seems much more, ahem, mature than Witherspoon, Kidman, etc.  I have no idea any of these actresses age IRL and am too lazy to look it up, but it seems odd.     

I thought the same thing about Laura Dern and Reese Witherspoon. I think Renata is supposed to be older than Madeline, since Madeline made that jab "[Jane]'s young. You know, like you used to be." But Laura Dern and Nicole Kidman are the same age IRL.

[mojoween]

I thought some of the directing choices were odd too (I can't remember who said it above).

Like Laura talking to her husband, then turning to the ocean, then turning her head, then back to the ocean ad infinitum.  Just turn around and have a conversation for cod's sack!

And when the detective was doing her press conference and for some reason they focused on her eyeball and then panned out.

Also, during Reese's family dinner, the camera was very shaky and it was unsettling.

[numbnut]

A cinematic and gossipy whodunnit with a great cast. It's not campy like Desperate Housewives so I'm into it.

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

Is she trying to do an American accent? I thought her natural accent was clear in her first scene and assumed she wasn't doing one. Admittedly, I don't have the best ear for that stuff.

Lol. Maybe she isn't and that's why she sounds Australian?!

[Razzberry]

17 hours ago, acid burn said:

Glad to see Alexander Skarsgard back on my Sunday night TV lineup. Not glad to see he's apparently reprising his roles from that crappy Straw Dogs remake and Gaga's Paparazzi video. 

In summary, stop playing abusive dickholes, A.Skars! It makes it very hard for me to objectify you. I mean, I'll still *do* it, obviously, but I'm probably gonna feel a little bit dirty about it.

At first I thought Perry was too good to be true.  Constantly mackin on Nicole (Celeste?), his interactions with the kids, the belching bedtime stories...then his dark side came out.  

[Gem 10]

19 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

I enjoyed the first episode. It made me want to read the book, but I'll hold off until this is over so I don't spoil myself and don't end up comparing the two.

Monterey County is one of my favorite places on earth, so this is total locale porn to me. I'd watch it for that alone.

Ditto for me also about not reading the book.  I live on the East coast .. Not too far from where "The Affair" was filmed.  I was thrilled that this show is being filmed on the west coast.   Hope they show some nice towns and scenery.   Had to watch this episode twice to get a handle on it.

[RealityCreator]

I thought Kidman was using her natural accent rather than an American one.  I'll have to listen more closely next episode.  

I liked it.  I'm in.  

[Negritude]

Just read the NYT review of this and the writer made a great point about the Monterey setting being questionable. I was just in Monterey for Labor Day and granted I didn't see all of it, what I did see definitely was not as fabolous as what's depicted here lol. No shade to Monterey, it's cute, just saying. If anyone on the board lives/has lived there please chime in. 

20 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Other forums I read are overrun with "I can't relate to this show" complaints about "Big Little Lies". I don't get it. Why do people need to "relate" to something to enjoy it? And it seems to be a common criticism of this show in particular. People seem fine with watching stuff like Game of Thrones, House of Cards, Westworld, etc. and no one says "I can't relate to this". But when it's upper class mothers and their children and all bets are off.

So agree with this! I consume media for all sorts of reasons, relatability and escapism so that argument irks me as well.

[HeyThere83]

I really enjoyed this and now I wish I had HBO. I was only able to watch because of a free preview. I really want to see what happens next. Darn. Reese was great!

[mochamajesty]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Liked it - a lot, and am intrigued by the story slowly unfolding.

I'm not fond of book talk permeating the episode threads of ANY show I watch, though.  :-(

 

Neither am I.  I wish it were against TOS to talk about the book, but I guess I will deal with it.

 

I am liking this series.  It does remind me of a more serious Desperate Housewives -which I sorely miss.

Reese has the spoiled rich girl attitude down pat. 

I am very surprised that more people did not comment on the teacher's unorthodox method of sniffing out the culprit.

I think I said, "Really??!", right along with Madeline.

I am sure that wouldn't be allowed anywhere.

I believe Ziggy - for now.  But,  what was with that flashback Jane had when she woke up with Ziggy looming over her?  Was that to cast doubt on Ziggy's innocence?

And is Ziggy portrayed by the same kid who played MJ Delfino? 

 

[chocolatine]

20 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Neither am I.  I wish it were against TOS to talk about the book, but I guess I will deal with it.

Well, it's what happens when a show/movie is based on a book. A large portion of the audience will have read the book and will want to discuss parallels and differences. As long as we're not spoiling what happens in future episodes, we're not breaking any forum rules.

15 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

I believe Ziggy - for now.  But,  what was with that flashback Jane had when she woke up with Ziggy looming over her?  Was that to cast doubt on Ziggy's innocence?

It wasn't a flashback. He was just sleepwalking.

16 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

And is Ziggy portrayed by the same kid who played MJ Delfino? 

No, that boy is much older now.

[riverheightsnancy]

Big issue that I have, teachers would never have the entire group of kids and parents present and ask the harmed child to point out who hurt her. This would be done in the privacy of the principal's office with the nurse or police. She had a visible bruise on her neck. This is not one kid taking another kid's pencil. This is much more serious and child protective services might be called as well and the district Child Psychologist, if the child who choked another was determined to have some type of issue, he/she would be removed from school at that point. This was not realistic at all with what would happen today at decent schools. Since this school was deemed to be as a good as a private school, I would expect even higher standards. The Principal would absolutely be involved.  Really liking Reese in this. I have never read the book and I know nothing about it, but I think that the twist will be that the dead person is male, but I could be wrong as I often am on these types of things  ;).

[HeyThere83]

I was thinking there might be more to that scene with Ziggy because of when it was first showed during the discussion about the girl being hurt at school. And then they showed it again later...

[walnutqueen]

3 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Well, it's what happens when a show/movie is based on a book. A large portion of the audience will have read the book and will want to discuss parallels and differences. As long as we're not spoiling what happens in future episodes, we're not breaking any forum rules.

It wasn't a flashback. He was just sleepwalking.

No, that boy is much older now.

Actually, book talk does "spoil" it for us TeeVee watchers, which is why there is a special thread for all that book talk.  And "a large portion" is relative - I'd posit a large portion of non-bookwalkers would appreciate enjoying the show for whatt is shown, and only what is shown.  If we want a comparison to the original content, we know where and how to find it right here in this forum - in it's own thread. [/soapbox] 

@riverheightsnancy - a California school tteacher who pulled that stunt would make the evening news in a hot minute!  ;=_)

Apologies for the spelling - my keyboard delete function is on  hunger strike, or protesting some perceived transgression my backspace key also accuses me of!

[WhosThatGirl]

I didn't read the book for this show but I enjoyed this episode a lot. It was something I haven't seen in a long time and yes some of it felt very vintage desperate housewives but also more darker.

[mochamajesty]

6 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Actually, book talk does "spoil" it for us TeeVee watchers, which is why there is a special thread for all that book talk.  And "a large portion" is relative - I'd posit a large portion of non-bookwalkers would appreciate enjoying the show for whatt is shown, and only what is shown.  If we want a comparison to the original content, we know where and how to find it right here in this forum - in it's own thread. [/soapbox] 

 

4

Perfect response.  I should not have to wade through posts of how TVMadeline compares to BookMadeline, or how this or that did or did not happen in the book.

Discuss it in one thread, please.  :)