Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
saoirse

S03.E19: A Curious Thing

Recommended Posts

I get that people are skeptical of True Love's kiss working, but losing a heart doesn't prevent one from loving...In all characters we have seen without a heart, it bareley seems to affect them.  Cora ripped out her own heart to stop herself from running off with Rumple, yet she still clearly loved Regina enough to go to great lengths for hope a reconciliation with her daughter. It didn't make her totally unable to love.   Even without Regina's awkward exposition of that fact, we knew that removing one's heart doesn't make one incapable of love or having other emotions... 

 

 

Right, lack of heart might not make feeling absolute impossible, but at least love and maybe other caring emotions are significantly muted, being ripped of the (metaphysical) center of feelings. Which makes me think, that expressing your love to others doesn't work as much as if you had your heart, thus I find the true love's kiss hard to accept in this episode, the whole caring, empathetic, bonding with Snow and falling in love with Robin Regina. Yes, Regina might still love and develop bit of empathy, but she shouldn't be able to convey it that much while without heart, it has to have a price, effects. The writers made it a point that Cora had a surge of feelings when her heart was put back, so that all of a sudden she expressed, having Regina would have been enough - something I didn't quite buy back then and now after what we've seen just recently find even less believable, because I perceived Cora always as a narcissist, pretty much incapable of loving anyone, but the writers wrote it that way. Heart back meant the full amount of feelings back. All I saw over the course of season 2 was a Cora who wanted to be part of Regina's life again because she never did all what she did for Regina, she did it for herself, and of course wanted to glory in her success, reconnecting with her daughter was driven by selfish motivation. It had something very poetic and strong though, to make even a narcissist like Cora feel deeply all of a sudden for someone else by putting her heart back.

 

The writers used losing a heart, breaking a heart, sharing hearts or darkness growing in a heart rather literrally, and I now take them literally. Regina has no heart, so no feelings, or at best a muted version of feelings. If they did all this to just have some nice visualization on screen and a random plot device without much of a meaning, so be it, but it is confusing people. And I call it mediocre writing.

 

 

 

I get both sides of the "using Emma" argument but Zelena's planned time reversal impacts both Emma & Henry. Emma would likely have been raised with her parents in the Enchanted Forest and Henry would never have been born. The only way they found to even get back was to kill Charming so I can understand why they wouldn't have tried something sooner. It wouldn't be a happy reunion if Emma heard they killed her father to get back to her even though they knew she & Henry were living a good life. In Emma's shoes, I would consider that just as selfish but YMMV. I'll fanwank that they discussed missing Emma offscreen.

 

It's the story of the writers and whatever I might be able to fanwank is then my reading into and not their telling of the story. If it had been Charming and Snow being separated I bet there would have been no off-screen dialogue to fanwank but a moment on screen to let them tell, they will always find a way to each other and won't stop looking. That is not the impression I had concerning Emma, that was more: oh, we can't even think of trying to get back or get Emma here, because it is the price we had to pay to safe all our lives, it's sad, but that's how things are now. While I get, that in the first days leaders like Charming and Snow can't show much moments of doubts, I don't get why they didn't do it for example in the episode "The Tower", it would have been great to insert just one or two lines expressing, we're not giving up to get back to Emma either, and not just, that they're going to do everything to not fail their second child as well (maybe I missed something, then I was not the only one). One or two lines would have been enough to avoid the sore taste I now have, something along the lines, that they're going to start to look for ways to cross the realms again to bring all the family together, so their unborn would some day meet her/his great big sister and nephew. Maybe such lines ended up on the cutting floor, but then that was a bad editing decision.

 

Or maybe Snow and Charming just don't care that much.

Edited by katusch
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

It was great to see Baelfire/Neal again, but that scene didn't make sense to me. 1) Why was Baelfire able to separate from Rumple's body? What we had known previously was that Rumple's body would MORPH into Baelfire but still be the same body. AND Baelfire needed Emma to use her magic to separate them, as it was something he was apparently unable to do himself. 2) In that scene, Baelfire was aware of everything that was happening when Rumple was the one "in control". What we'd been shown previously was that Baelfire would "take over" but have no recollection of anything that had happened while Rumple had been in control.

 

When Emma yelled at Henry, was I the only one who thought that was on purpose? The previous scene, it was said that the storybook had appeared when Henry was feeling lost or unloved or something... so I thought Emma was trying to make Henry feel like sh-t so that the book would reappear in this curse. But then Snow was all "you yelled at Henry, that wasn't like you", which blew that theory.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I was afraid that it was going to be some quirk of the curse keeping him alive and that he was going to keel over once it was broken. (No, really, all the way up until the splitting-heart scene, I was on David Collapse Watch.)

Me too! But then when Regina magically woke up, I thought we'd just seen a "everything I was dreaming about while I was unconscious" Regina-dream. The whole thing was a little weird-- there was something about the scenes showing Snowing enacting the dark curse that just felt like it wasn't going to end up being real, so it took me a while to catch up.

Edited by 3dog

Share this post


Link to post

I'm going to assume it happens via the same mechanics that allow Regina to pump blood through her system even though Zelena has her heart.

 

Finally, a thought I had throughout the episode: why hasn't anyone tried to throw water on Zelena?  Belle, with her book-knowledge, is pseudo-genre savvy, and both she and Emma should know about that if they know the OZ stories. I began wondering if there was some reference I missed in the last few episodes, indicating that water is not her weakness (my damn wiener kids often keep me from catching everything that happens on this show), or whether they were saving it for the finale.  But in the previews, we see Dorothy and the water scene, so I guess they have not forgotten it; it's just not a permanent solution, apparently.

Grumpy asked which witch she was.  When asked why he wanted to know, he said that to kill one, you needed to throw water on her and to kill the other, you needed a building to fall on her.  So the answer has always been available to them on how to get rid of her.  From Grumpy no less!

Share this post


Link to post

I think my favorite part was probably when Snow was on the ground, pleading with Regina to split her heart between herself and Charming, with Regina telling her it was too dangerous. It was almost the loving mother-daughter relationship they didn't get to have.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I am thinking that the flying monkeys disappear in sparkles just before they're shot, and that they are really just beaming back into a Great Flying Monkey Catacomb, as part of the flying monkey curse. Otherwise the Captain Swan-ings Family would be realizing they might have already killed a hideous number of friends, and Zelena wouold have rubbed it in.

I love Hook. He is enough of a pirate and drunk to settle on leaving town as The Way to save Emma, but enough of the New Hook to take Henry with him to try to protect him.

And of course Henry watched "Peter Pan" in New York. They allow single mothers to rent DVDs.:)

Edited by mindbird
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Did anyone else get creeped-out by seeing the upcoming scenes for next week?  They have Henry in a wig playing Dorothy---I had to replay it several times to make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing.

 

Actually,

that's not Henry in a wig.  It's a girl whose name escapes me at the moment.

When Emma yelled at Henry, was I the only one who thought that was on purpose? The previous scene, it was said that the storybook had appeared when Henry was feeling lost or unloved or something... so I thought Emma was trying to make Henry feel like sh-t so that the book would reappear in this curse. But then Snow was all "you yelled at Henry, that wasn't like you", which blew that theory.

 

She was trying to keep Henry out of harm's way, and Henry was having none of it because she wouldn't answer his direct questions.  Because there wasn't really any time to debate the issue, Emma had no choice but to play the parental "because I'm your mother and I said so!" card.

Edited by legaleagle53

Share this post


Link to post

She was trying to keep Henry out of harm's way, and Henry was having none of it because she wouldn't answer his direct questions. Because there wasn't really any time to debate the issue, Emma had no choice but to play the parental "because I'm your mother and I said so!" card.

Yeah I know, but at the time I thought it was planned for her to act like that so the storybook would be in Snow's closet. Maybe it wouldn't have been there otherwise, since it originally didn't show up until Henry felt like crap.

Edited by TexanGal

Share this post


Link to post

Loving this season's Regina.  The writers are doing the right thing there by not letting her become one-dimensional.  Love the pairing of Regina and Robin Hood, and Henry's reaction when he met him.

 

What the hell is going on with the wigs on this show?  For a show with amazing costumes, I'd think they'd appreciate a good wig to go with it.  Snow White looks like a wookie with that thing on her head.  Anybody -- everybody -- on RuPaul's Drag Race would put her to shame.

 

Speaking of wigs: I didn't think that Dorothy is Henry in a wig, but maybe I didn't look closely enough.

 

If we're going to get Dorothy, I wonder if there will be more of the Oz crew with her.  I vote they cast Gary Busey as the Cowardly Lion.  Come on, who wouldn't want to see that?

Share this post


Link to post

Jared does have a twin sister. Maybe it is her as Dorothy. LOL

Seriously? *Looks it up* Wow he does. But whoever is Dorothy looks more like him than his fraternal twin sister, who it seems does not act.

Share this post


Link to post

Shut up, Henry! I hate how this show continuously lets him act badly and then wants to make the adults in the wrong for telling him off. Too bad the monkeys didn't get him.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

There's so much to hate about this one.

I didn't feel like Emma believed in season one because of the book. Something magical did happen because of the book, but she looked at the book because she was believing, ever since Henry collapsed after eating the tart. It seems like a copout that they had Henry get his memories back just from touching the book when he wasn't believing before he touched it. Even after he saw the flying monkeys, he wasn't saying he believed in magic. It would have been such a better story if he'd figured it out for himself from the clues around town and then maybe found the book on his own. Or else he shouldn't ever have got all his memories back, since supposedly losing him was the price Regina had to pay, and he should have just learned about magic separately from that. Henry getting his memories back just by touching a magic book was probably the dullest way they could have resolved things.

Then there was the TLK between Regina and Henry that broke the memory spell. This is where they really retconned their relationship. They'd barely reconciled before the curse reverse. Henry hadn't lived with Regina in ages. They'd never talked about Henry's day or his school work other than whether he'd done his homework. If there'd been any doubt that the show had totally tilted in a Regina direction, this would have ended that doubt.

We had another wacky weather day. When Hook is talking to Henry by the Bug, it's a bright, sunny day. There are a few bits of snow up against the buildings, and you can see melting snow dripping in some of the shots. Then they walk across town to the docks, and it's dark and cloudy with snow coming down furiously and several inches of snow on the ground.

If Henry needed to steal a car to drive to the bus station to leave Storybrooke, then how did he get out of town in the pilot?

Has anyone done a count of the number of episodes that began with someone riding furiously on horseback?

I bet they all feel a bit silly after learning

Spoiler

that Regina can cast the curse at any time with her blood after she made the initial sacrifice.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

What is going on with Emma lately? She is being written really weirdly the last few episodes, but its hard to put my finger on what is exactly going on with her. Maybe its because her constant going on about how awesome New York is has started to become not only old, but its looking increasingly insensitive to her family who she seems excited to leave behind to get back to their "real" life. I know that the Charmings have done the same thing to Emma before, but I guess I expect more from her. Of course, some of that is her being a victim of lame plotting. 

I mean, the book was the thing that made her believe? No, show. The book gave her context, but what made her believe was when Henry went into a magic coma after eating the apple turnover of death that Regina made her, and, you know, fighting a freaking dragon! Chuck a sword at Henry and send him to fight a dragon somewhere, then he can totally believe! It wasn't about just holding a stupid book, he didnt even read the damn thing! And dont get me started on Henry and Regina getting True Loves Kiss this time around. The never ending fawning of Regina gets worse and worse every day, and the retcon of Regina and Henry as the best mother/son team ever is just so lame. I wish they would have spent more time with them building their relationship up again, instead of just pushing the "healthy parenting!" button with them. 

Gee, Hook and his cursed lips sure did serve so much of a point, other than creating another roadblock for Captain Swan to finally just hook up. So much of a point...it was so pointy...

The flashbacks actually have some nice Snowing stuff (like Charming giving Snow a flower on their mission) but Glinda was as useless as every good magic user is in this universe (until the last episode and someones jazz hands will save the day) and while the door to nowhere was kind of cool, the "lets do the dark curse" idea is all kinds of stupid. They really had no other ideas? Really? They even mentioned the beans and Jefferson's hat, but with a hardly explained "Oh no, that wont work! Because of reasons!" they now have to change the rules of this universe and the dark curse yet again! Why can they just change the rules like this?!? And why does Zelena know freaking everything? This is when the villain of the show is in full on Villain Sue mode, who knows everything and is five steps ahead of the heroes, because they're omniscient and the heroes are idiots and just react to things and stand around looking like morons half the time. 

Also, I love how half assed Aurora and Philips fates are. They told Zelena information she probably knew anyway, then instantly told the truth, and were turned into monkeys, and no one cared or reacted to any of it. I mean, no reaction to your friends being turned into monkey slaves of the villain? I mean, thats pretty consistent with their treatment of Regina's victims, but you would think they could at least throw in a sentence or two at this new villain. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe its because her constant going on about how awesome New York is has started to become not only old, but its looking increasingly insensitive to her family who she seems excited to leave behind to get back to their "real" life.

I found it amusing that Henry used the exact same phrasing to talk about his New York life that Emma has been repeating when he and Regina had their catching up conversation (which was entirely unlike any interaction Regina and Henry have ever had before). It's like the writers had a macro. Even now, when I hear someone talk about living in New York, I hear "It was good, really good" in my head.

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Gee, Hook and his cursed lips sure did serve so much of a point, other than creating another roadblock for Captain Swan to finally just hook up. So much of a point...it was so pointy...

And meanwhile, the other things that did exist that might have been obstacles for them were more or less ignored. Like the fact that less than a week ago, she was on the verge of getting engaged to someone else. Yeah, he turned out to be a flying monkey, but she still apparently had serious feelings for him. Then there's the fact that this would give her a seriously gun-shy track record. She's had two serious relationships in her life. One of those guys got her sent to jail and vanished on her and one turned out to be a flying monkey spying on her for a villain. That's bound to make her stay entirely away from getting involved with anyone else, with or without a kiss curse, and especially not with a (former) pirate who's only just started turning his life around. And, come to think of it both of those things happened in the "real" world, even if they involved fairytale world people. So why the urge to go back to New York to get away from the weirdness? It seems like Storybrooke's been the one place she's been emotionally safe and has any kind of support system in case another lover screws her over. Meanwhile, Neal just died a day or so ago, and both Hook and Emma are mourning that. It makes Zelena's curse really silly because it's not as though they were likely to have been kissing anytime soon, what with recent events and having to deal with Zelena, and all. One of the other conflicts is that Emma hasn't seen Hook in a year and wasn't thinking about him (because she didn't remember him) all that time, but he spent that time thinking of her and using her as his motivation to do better. They're totally out of sync, and that could have made for some good stuff, some with deep emotional potential and some with comic potential.

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

And why does Zelena know freaking everything? This is when the villain of the show is in full on Villain Sue mode, who knows everything and is five steps ahead of the heroes, because they're omniscient and the heroes are idiots and just react to things and stand around looking like morons half the time. 

We still don't know how Zelena knew all these things. Were Philip and Aurora dumb enough to report to Zelena about Snow's pregnancy? Come to think of it, how did Zelena even know that Regina returning to the Enchanted Forest was a possibility so that she would have set up Philip and Aurora as unwilling spies in the first place? We never saw her using the magical iPad away from the Emerald City. Did she bring it with her to the Enchanted Forest? Is it in Storybrooke? How does she communicate with the flying monkeys when they're spying? She talks to them, but how do they let her know what they've seen? Does she turn them back into humans to report? If so, if they retain any free will as humans, why would they report honestly? Does she read their minds? How long was Zelena in Regina's castle? When the curse is reversed, it's probably only been a couple of months (at most) since Snow and Emma were in the Enchanted Forest, and only about a week since Neal was there, and there were no signs of flying monkeys then, and Philip and Aurora were okay then. If you're going to make your villain so omniscient that she's privy to things that were discussed in private, you have to show how she does it. One glimpse of her using some kind of magical observation device in the farmhouse or Rumple's castle would have done the trick, but they have her just knowing everything at random.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I didn't feel like Emma believed in season one because of the book. Something magical did happen because of the book, but she looked at the book because she was believing, ever since Henry collapsed after eating the tart. It seems like a copout that they had Henry get his memories back just from touching the book when he wasn't believing before he touched it. Even after he saw the flying monkeys, he wasn't saying he believed in magic. It would have been such a better story if he'd figured it out for himself from the clues around town and then maybe found the book on his own. Or else he shouldn't ever have got all his memories back, since supposedly losing him was the price Regina had to pay, and he should have just learned about magic separately from that. Henry getting his memories back just by touching a magic book was probably the dullest way they could have resolved things.

 

That was what I was expecting during 3B.  It would have been interesting and rather humorous if we kept seeing Henry walk in on strange situations that everyone would try to cover up.  Having him figure it out himself would have been a contrast to Season 1 with Emma.  Maybe he could have been the one to encounter Neal and helped to figure out that Zelena was the Wicked Witch.  

The mythology of The Book hadn't been truly explored yet but its random appearance felt like a deus ex machina rather than giving us something new and intriguing about that vital object which propelled the whole story from the beginning.

Quote

Or else he shouldn't ever have got all his memories back, since supposedly losing him was the price Regina had to pay, and he should have just learned about magic separately from that. Henry getting his memories back just by touching a magic book was probably the dullest way they could have resolved things.

Yes, that made the whole return of Henry's memories fall flat, with no satisfaction or payoff, even if I had wanted it to happen (which I didn't).  

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Were Philip and Aurora dumb enough to report to Zelena about Snow's pregnancy? Come to think of it, how did Zelena even know that Regina returning to the Enchanted Forest was a possibility so that she would have set up Philip and Aurora as unwilling spies in the first place?

This bothered me on first watch too.  There's no way anyone would be expecting Snowing returning to the Enchanted Forest, so why would Zelena be asking Philip and Aurora to tell them when they came back?  If they are going to throw a bunch of former heroes under the bus as they did Philip and Aurora, at least give us the complete story instead of using it as a convenient plot point via cameo.

On 4/27/2014 at 9:41 PM, Camera One said:

Though I really liked Regina throughout the flashback

I need to enact a time travel spell to go back and slap myself.  If anyone has a baby I can borrow along with a figurative brain, a literal heart and a sword handle, I'll be eternally grateful. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

For me, heartless Regina TLK with the kid who previously went to such extremes to escape her and find his bio mum, was vomit inducing..

Spoiler

..nice lead in to her to suddenly having powerful Light magic rendering dragging Emma back, pointless for defeating Zelena.

Once again (!) the writers missed an op to explain Killian's dilemma. There was a great fan fic that had Zelena put a geis on him which physically prevented him from telling, writing or attempting to communicate that he had been cursed. They could have some amazing gut wrenching scenes with him trying to get around it ...but writers always went for cheap, shalllow angst.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

There was a great fan fic that had Zelena put a geis on him which physically prevented him from telling, writing or attempting to communicate that he had been cursed.

If this is the one I think it is, it's still going on, and it's wonderful. It's everything I wish 3B had been. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

There was a great fan fic that had Zelena put a geis on him which physically prevented him from telling, writing or attempting to communicate that he had been cursed.

Yeah, I keep getting mixed up which is the actual series and which is the fanfic when I think about this arc because the fanfic is more logical and has fewer plot holes. While watching the episode, when Emma started griping at Hook for not telling her, I was thinking, "But he couldn't because Zelena put a spell on him," then remembered that was the fanfic. Which makes you wonder why Zelena didn't make it part of the spell. She's all-seeing and all-knowing, super-powerful, and can do anything with the wave of a hand, but she couldn't put a spell on Hook to keep him from being able to tell Emma what was going on? She was just going to rely on a vague threat to keep him quiet?

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

The mythology of The Book hadn't been truly explored yet but its random appearance felt like a deus ex machina rather than giving us something new and intriguing about that vital object which propelled the whole story from the beginning.

It was way too easy a way to resolve the memory curse -- just hand Henry a book, and then once he believes, magic TLK! Even without his Storybrooke memories, you'd think Henry would still be the kind of kid who'd come up with something like Operation Cobra. He wouldn't just be sulking around with video games. If he got curious or suspicious about what Emma was up to, he'd investigate. He'd sneak around to watch things, which would make him see magical stuff. He'd do research. If we're going by the way things seemed to work in season one, he might have stumbled across the book on his own, and it wouldn't be just touching it that would make him believe. It would be like season one, where he'd match what was in the book to the people he saw in town, and he'd figure it out like he did the first time around. It wasn't touching a magic book then. He figured it out from reading the book and observing.

They had a talent for choosing the least interesting way of doing just about anything.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

GLINDA:  I'm sorry.  My magic is not powerful enough to defeat Zelena.  It never has been.

So is light magic weaker than dark magic?  What about the power of love and all that?  

Quote

CHARMING: You know her?

Why would Charming ask that question?  It's an example of how characters say stuff to evoke answers that the Writers want the viewer to know and nothing more.

Quote

GLINDA: We were friends.  A long time ago.  When things were different.

I'm so intrigued by this.  I wonder how close they were.  

Quote

GLINDA: She was born with great power.  Long ago, I gave her a pendant to focus it.  Her magic has resided inside it ever since.

Snowing forgot to ask her why she was so stupid to give her the pendant in the first place.

Quote

GLINDA: But only a purveyor of the strongest light magic will be able to accomplish such a feat.

But you don't have it, right Glinda?

Quote

SNOW: Light magic.

Oh Snow, are you looking for a textbook definition?

Quote

GLINDA: If [Emma]'s as pure and powerful as you say, then yes, she and only she can defeat Zelena.

Spoiler

Uh, Glinda didn't know that everyone and their dog can TLK and bring about a baby borne of true love and that there are multiple Saviors running around and even Regina could toss out light magic even though she was barred from going through the door to Glinda?  I love the contradictions on this show.  It makes things as muddled as the puddle in Eeyore's backyard.

Edited by Camera One
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×