Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

I agree with what Bill C says.

Overall a good episode, definitely had the L&O feel to it. Case was suspenseful and kept me guessing all the way through, I thought the paramedics were going to turn out to be responsible, although the ending seemed a bit rushed and it was suspicious how no one had noticed the discrepancy before. 

I loved seeing Paul Robinette again, he is a great character and it was great to see him and Ben Stone's son together in court, I loved the references to the mothership and Ben Stone and I liked how the episode ended with Peter Stone calling Ben. I know that there is no shot of Moriarty appearing even though it would be great to see him again but I hope to hear about him again soon, I would like to know what Ben Stone is up to now, and I certainly hope to see Paul Robinette appear again at some point. The main cast is very good and I like all of the characters, particularly Stone and Mark Jeffries. 

The negative part of the episode was that it was intertwined with PD closely. I've said before that this show is more like an L&O show than a Chicago show and it was a bad idea to have the first 2 episodes be so intertwined with PD, it gives the impression that the show is desperate for viewers and that it can't stand on its on. The fact that the defendant was a PD character took away suspense as it was highly doubtful that a main character from PD would be written off and go to prison on a spinoff episode. As a result of its tie to PD, it was biased in favor of the police, there weren't many arguments mentioning how the police do kill innocent black citizens even though that wasn't what happened in this case and it turned it Atwater did nothing wrong but it deserved mention that cops aren't the victims frequently and they are usually above the law.

On L&O, cases involving cops were always balanced and never very biased, and even the police characters did their jobs professionally. Of course, on Chicago PD there is no such thing as doing their job professionally and this show suffered as a result of the tie in. If they wanted to do an episode about a cop accused of killing a black guy as the first episode, it should've been a cop we had never seen not a PD character. Also please get Voight off the screen, that guy is scum and the most unlikable main character ever, made worse by the fact that he's not supposed to be a villain. In real life he would be thrown off the force, he is clearly unstable. Also there was no point in having him appear except to attract PD viewers. Please make the PD connections go away, this show is definitely strong enough to stand on its on without the constant ties to the terrible PD show and Voight. It is very concerning how the first 2 episodes were PD crossovers, this show should be more like L&O and not PD.

And I thought that Dawson did owe Stone an apology, Stone is his boss and Dawson was extremely unprofessional and disrespectful, something he no doubt picked up from his pal Voight. And since Dawson was friends with Atwater, he clearly had a bias and should've been assigned to another investigator, that's how it would be in real life, they just didn't want to pay another actor to be a replacement investigator. 

[paigow]

Why did every important NYC murder happen in the 27th Precinct? CPD Intelligence is supposed to get all the "headline" cases. Instead of Briscoe & Green, we get Voight & Minions to eliminate character exposition overload.

[Xeliou66]

About L&O, the homicide cases naturally went to the Manhattan Homicide squad, which Briscoe and Green were a part of, and the Homicide squad can go anywhere in Manhattan, not just a specific area like a patrol division. We just only saw the cases assigned to those particular cops and DA's but there were others. 

I really hope this show can break away from PD and become a good show on its own, it has lots of promise and I love the ties to L&O.

[Gigglepuff]

I like this show so far and think that it has a lot of potential. It's a welcome break from SVU and it's nice to see a show that has actual intelligent writing. I'm warming up to the characters and I like that there hasn't been one person who's the hero while the rest of the cast fall under his or her shadow, it seems like it's a true ensemble. I hope they keep it that way. 

[Sandman]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I thought that Dawson did owe Stone an apology, Stone is his boss and Dawson was extremely unprofessional and disrespectful, something he no doubt picked up from his pal Voight. And since Dawson was friends with Atwater, he clearly had a bias and should've been assigned to another investigator.

I agree with all of this; I want to like this show, but Antonio's whining is kind of ruining it for me. He should never have been assigned to investigate his former colleague. There are conflict of interest rules in place for just this kind of situation. I also agree with the developing consensus that this show is the Mothership reborn, right down to (in this episode, anyway) its two-part structure ("... the police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders").

I will say the show had me believing for a scene or three that Atwater might actually be leaving the (many) series. But, nope, somebody found the Reset Butto-- er, tox screen in time. Whew!

Is "Nobody trusts anything out of the Intelligence Unit" going to be a running theme for this show? If the unit's reputation is that bad, why is Voight still there? (Or anyone else, really?) I don't think there's any realistic chance that the connections to PD are going to fade away; the showrunners have built a shared universe and peopled it with three (now four) interlocking shows. The interconnections are part of the deal.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Sandman

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I agree with what Bill C says.

Overall a good episode, definitely had the L&O feel to it. Case was suspenseful and kept me guessing all the way through, I thought the paramedics were going to turn out to be responsible, although the ending seemed a bit rushed and it was suspicious how no one had noticed the discrepancy before. 

I loved seeing Paul Robinette again, he is a great character and it was great to see him and Ben Stone's son together in court, I loved the references to the mothership and Ben Stone and I liked how the episode ended with Peter Stone calling Ben. I know that there is no shot of Moriarty appearing even though it would be great to see him again but I hope to hear about him again soon, I would like to know what Ben Stone is up to now, and I certainly hope to see Paul Robinette appear again at some point. The main cast is very good and I like all of the characters, particularly Stone and Mark Jeffries. 

The negative part of the episode was that it was intertwined with PD closely. I've said before that this show is more like an L&O show than a Chicago show and it was a bad idea to have the first 2 episodes be so intertwined with PD, it gives the impression that the show is desperate for viewers and that it can't stand on its on. The fact that the defendant was a PD character took away suspense as it was highly doubtful that a main character from PD would be written off and go to prison on a spinoff episode. As a result of its tie to PD, it was biased in favor of the police, there weren't many arguments mentioning how the police do kill innocent black citizens even though that wasn't what happened in this case and it turned it Atwater did nothing wrong but it deserved mention that cops aren't the victims frequently and they are usually above the law.

On L&O, cases involving cops were always balanced and never very biased, and even the police characters did their jobs professionally. Of course, on Chicago PD there is no such thing as doing their job professionally and this show suffered as a result of the tie in. If they wanted to do an episode about a cop accused of killing a black guy as the first episode, it should've been a cop we had never seen not a PD character. Also please get Voight off the screen, that guy is scum and the most unlikable main character ever, made worse by the fact that he's not supposed to be a villain. In real life he would be thrown off the force, he is clearly unstable. Also there was no point in having him appear except to attract PD viewers. Please make the PD connections go away, this show is definitely strong enough to stand on its on without the constant ties to the terrible PD show and Voight. It is very concerning how the first 2 episodes were PD crossovers, this show should be more like L&O and not PD.

And I thought that Dawson did owe Stone an apology, Stone is his boss and Dawson was extremely unprofessional and disrespectful, something he no doubt picked up from his pal Voight. And since Dawson was friends with Atwater, he clearly had a bias and should've been assigned to another investigator, that's how it would be in real life, they just didn't want to pay another actor to be a replacement investigator. 

About the only thing that kept me watching Chicago PD was the theory that Sergeant Voight was based upon Commander Jon Burge But unlike The Shield were Vic Mackey was always the villain but it was politically necessary to let The Strike Force loose because of the politics of the big crime of the day, on PD they made the turn to make Voight the better guy with the occasional torture and murder that the police commanders would pretend not to see. Maybe if NBC gives a head up before the finale of the franchise so we see Voight go down.

 

But as things stand at this moment in time ultimately there is no Justice in Chicago as long as the Intelligence Squad is free.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Raja

[Sandman]

Maybe Mrs. Stone was really tall and beautiful. And tall.

[milner]

I am probably a lone voice  but I don't think this show is very good.  The fellow playing stone isn't a great actor and  neither is his female partner.  But the main problem for me is the writing. The first case was solved via the old trope of the guy breaking down on the stand because they had  no provable case otherwise.  Then in this  weeks case they find information at the last minute that a good investigator would have checked at the outset . In real life Atwater would suffer some fallout from the accusation regardless of the end result. I want to like this show but it needs better writing. Maybe like CSI and L&0 it is one spinoff too many .

[Sake614]

My mistake. I thought I heard Adam. Either way, I like him. I don't think the early seasons of L&O even mentioned families. That aspect didn't come into play until after Moriarty left, and even then it was minimal.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Or short. Michael Moriarty was the tallest cast member on L&O at 6' 4" (I know, deceptive, but you can really see this in old L&O scenes when Stone stood next to Robinette who is just a touch shorter). His "son" Winchester is 6' 1".

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

Maybe Mrs. Stone was really tall and beautiful. And tall.

[Sandman]

Huh. I forgot that Moriarty is so tall. I think of Stone as being kind of dumpy, somehow. Richard Brooks seems slender(er) and thus very tall to me. In conclusion, your honours, I clearly have no clue.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I know, who'd athunk it. Moriarty must have really long legs. But I still liked the character he played in spite of his perceived dumpiness.

[MakeMeLaugh]

So far I'm with you, milner. They are all idiots. And I'm talking about the writers who made them so; there is only ONE cop in all of Chicago who could be indicted for this crime and it is Atwater from a sister show?? Come on. The story would have worked a lot better with someone we DON'T already know, if only because of course Atwater is not going to be convicted, but also because come on, he is the only black cop (and one of the very few black characters in any of the Chicagos), so he's the one you pick? You know that's a thing, writers, that minority characters are always the first to get killed/kicked off the show, etc.? So what, Atwater is now just supposed to return to regular duty, and every single arrest he ever makes now will mean the defendant's attorney can put him on the stand and bring up that he was tried for murdering a suspect and confessed in court before being exonerated. 

The minute Atwater was suspected I turned to Mr MML and said the autopsy is going to show he couldn't have done it. Too bad the goofballs at Justice don't know how to investigate the obvious rather than accidentally realizing what happened. Antonio, you left PD and now you look like an idiot. And for the second of two weeks, Baby Stone looks just as stupid (I am not talking about the actors, but about the characters).

Edited March 6, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[Tetraneutron]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

I loved seeing Paul Robinette again, he is a great character and it was great to see him and Ben Stone's son together in court, I loved the references to the mothership and Ben Stone and I liked how the episode ended with Peter Stone calling Ben. I know that there is no shot of Moriarty appearing even though it would be great to see him again but I hope to hear about him again soon, I would like to know what Ben Stone is up to now, and I certainly hope to see Paul Robinette appear again at some point. The main cast is very good and I like all of the characters, particularly Stone and Mark Jeffries. 

 

When a TV show needs to rely on "Hey, remember that thing that happened in the past with those characters who aren't here?" it's a sign the show is bad. Right now the show is relying very heavily on a character who hasn't been on our screens since 1994 to make us care and that's not a good thing. We should care about Peter Stone, and uh, blonde investigator and Latino investigator and Stone's cute assistant with the great hair and, uh, Carl Weathers. And it's a problem that I can't remember anyone's name. On the original "Law and Order" the characters felt lived-in. Like they had personalities and points of view. A Greevey line was different from a Logan line was different from a Stone line. Now everyone except Peter is interchangeable and just there. Their dialogue only serves to move the plot or be a didactic mouthpiece for a side in a conflict. Especially Carl Weathers. Compare him to Schiff or even Branch. He's a cipher. Does he believe in anything?

3 hours ago, milner said:

I am probably a lone voice  but I don't think this show is very good.   But the main problem for me is the writing. The first case was solved via the old trope of the guy breaking down on the stand because they had  no provable case otherwise.  Then in this  weeks case they find information at the last minute that a good investigator would have checked at the outset .

Agreed. The episode was a mess. They spend 50 minutes getting into ethical issues and racial justice and police brutality and relevant news stories and then at the last minute, oops! That had nothing to do with anything! It was all some dumb scumbag who had nothing to do with any important institution! Isn't that a fun way of getting rid of any ethical tension? It has the side effect of making everyone look like an idiot. Robinette had to do all this risky legal maneuvering when he could have made the whole thing go away by having an ME examine the victim. Same with the prosecutors. And what a dumb Encyclopedia Brown twist it turned out to be. The witness was lying because he said an obvious lie. 

Also, every time they've brought back Robinette he's been a completely different character. The first time it was to defend a black woman against her son being transracially adopted. Then it was to defend a doctor sterilizing poor women without their consent. Then defending a Muslim accused of terrorism. Now we're supposed to believe he has a reputation for defending cops? What's the point? It's an attempt to mine nostalgia by having us feel affection for the character when it's just a guy with the same name played by the same actor. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Tetraneutron said:

When a TV show needs to rely on "Hey, remember that thing that happened in the past with those characters who aren't here?" it's a sign the show is bad. Right now the show is relying very heavily on a character who hasn't been on our screens since 1994 to make us care and that's not a good thing. We should care about Peter Stone, and uh, blonde investigator and Latino investigator and Stone's cute assistant with the great hair and, uh, Carl Weathers. And it's a problem that I can't remember anyone's name. On the original "Law and Order" the characters felt lived-in. Like they had personalities and points of view. A Greevey line was different from a Logan line was different from a Stone line. Now everyone except Peter is interchangeable and just there. Their dialogue only serves to move the plot or be a didactic mouthpiece for a side in a conflict. Especially Carl Weathers. Compare him to Schiff or even Branch. He's a cipher. Does he believe in anything?

Agreed. The episode was a mess. They spend 50 minutes getting into ethical issues and racial justice and police brutality and relevant news stories and then at the last minute, oops! That had nothing to do with anything! It was all some dumb scumbag who had nothing to do with any important institution! Isn't that a fun way of getting rid of any ethical tension? It has the side effect of making everyone look like an idiot. Robinette had to do all this risky legal maneuvering when he could have made the whole thing go away by having an ME examine the victim. Same with the prosecutors. And what a dumb Encyclopedia Brown twist it turned out to be. The witness was lying because he said an obvious lie. 

Also, every time they've brought back Robinette he's been a completely different character. The first time it was to defend a black woman against her son being transracially adopted. Then it was to defend a doctor sterilizing poor women without their consent. Then defending a Muslim accused of terrorism. Now we're supposed to believe he has a reputation for defending cops? What's the point? It's an attempt to mine nostalgia by having us feel affection for the character when it's just a guy with the same name played by the same actor. 

Apollo Creed as the State's Attorney does remind me of McCoy as the last New York County DA in only believing he should hold the office. As for Robinette I think they were turning him into the late Johnny Cochran whose firm, which still bears his name, would seem to be on many social/political sides. I underside in the OJ case why a speedy trail was pushed forward but in this politically charged case with Father Pfleger leading the charge you don't let that happen.

[Waterston Fan]

I liked this episode but I admit, when Mark got the phones, I was thinking, Robinette is going to ask how the phones came to play and all that stuff. I hope they don't do the past too much because not everyone has seen Law & Order, especially when Ben was on. 

I have never heard of an EMT going to another incident while having a victim with them. 

Dawson, I think it was a bit like in some L&O episodes with maybe Briscoe or Green or someone realizing something and doing something about it. 

I'm glad Dawson apologized but he should have been taken off the case. 

I am confused. New episode Tuesday or is that Chicago Fire they were promoting? I know there is a new episode on Sunday. 

[Waterston Fan]

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

This show is now on Sundays. Chicago Fire airs Tuesdays, Chicago PD airs Wednesdays, and Chicago Med airs Thursdays.

Thanks. They probably were promoting the Fire show and I just wasn't paying close attention. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

27 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

Thanks. They probably were promoting the Fire show and I just wasn't paying close attention. 

no, you were right, there is a Chicago Justice episode scheduled for this Tuesday, 3/7.  Fire is taking a three week break til 3/21. I think :)

Edited March 6, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[kassygreene]

PD is taking a three week break until 3/21.  Don't know about Fire, I only watch it during some crossovers.

It seemed to me that Winchester watched some of the first five years of the Mothership; his courtroom mannerisms seemed to be Moriarty-ish. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

no, you were right, there is a Chicago Justice episode scheduled for this Tuesday, 3/7.  Fire is taking a three week break til 3/21. I think :)

Huh, this is going to confuse the hell out of me (in terms of episode threads!). Thanks for the heads up. Will put the episode thread up. I did know about the Chicago Fire break as I also handle the other Chicago forums. PD is on break, too, for 3 weeks.

[MakeMeLaugh]

And a great job you do with them, WendyCR72!

[paigow]

When Stone Jr calls all defendants "Sir" during cross-examination and if he gets offended when dirtbags address him as "Peter" instead of "Mr. Stone", then he will be doing the "Full Moriarty"

[WendyCR72]

12 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

And a great job you do with them, WendyCR72!

Aww thanks, @MakeMeLaugh. I try!

[Waterston Fan]

50 minutes ago, paigow said:

When Stone Jr calls all defendants "Sir" during cross-examination and if he gets offended when dirtbags address him as "Peter" instead of "Mr. Stone", then he will be doing the "Full Moriarty"

I didn't see much of L&O when Moriarty was on but that comment made me laugh. 
LOL

[CheshireCat]

I thought it was an odd choice to have new characters go after established characters in only the second episode. I find it kind of hard to have sympathy for the new Justice characters who are willing to throw an established and well-liked characters under the bus just because they want to make a case. The video tapes didn't show any use of excessive force on Atwater's part and yet, the moment they launch an official investigation, it's on Atwater's record and it won't go away. Stone's choice didn't exactly make me root for him. Made me perceive him as foe rather than friend, too. As I said, odd choice.

[paigow]

42 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

The video tapes didn't show any use of excessive force on Atwater's part 

They were going for the Baltimore angle...Atwater may or may not have safely buckled the prisoner during transport. A few hard stops would throw his chest into the dashboard.

[CheshireCat]

58 minutes ago, paigow said:

They were going for the Baltimore angle...Atwater may or may not have safely buckled the prisoner during transport. A few hard stops would throw his chest into the dashboard.

It's still only assumption and they were still willing to throw Atwater under the bus and for what, really?

I might have seen things differently and I might have seen it Justice's way if I hadn't been watching PD from the start. But I have, so I'm biased against Stone's and his boss' choice, I see it as politically motivated. That is why I said that I find it an odd choice to have new characters go for an established one, especially with no evidence. It's not how I would choose to make viewers of a franchise interested in the newest member of the franchise.

But hey, for once I was totally and completely in Antonio's corner, so there's that ;-)

Edited March 7, 2017 by CheshireCat

[paigow]

1 minute ago, CheshireCat said:

It's still only assumption and they were still willing to throw Atwater under the bus for the sake of their case.

At the basketball court, Atwater admitted to Antonio that some procedural irregularities might have occurred. Stone Sr and McCoy never shied away from a purely circumstantial case. 

[Enigma X]

I watched the pilot and this episode, and this is a keeper for me.

[Crs97]

The problem is that we know Voight is shady, and everyone knows their methods are corrupt.  What did they say in the pilot?  Any confession from Voight's team is side-eyed at best.  Now Stone and company go after them the one time the arrest was okay and fail; now Voight will feel untouchable.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Crs97

[Xeliou66]

It is clearly a problem how intertwined this is with PD, I'm looking forward to seeing an episode with no PD characters, where the show can thrive on its on. PD is a joke, Voight would never get away with his actions in real life and he would never be let back on the force after being locked up, and yeah everyone knows he is corrupt and untrustworthy. It is hard to blend a show that supports justice like this one with a show that is nothing more than pro police state propaganda like PD, it's a shame that Dick Wolf, after he doing the brilliant and groundbreaking L&O franchise, created something so biased and propaganda like such as PD.

I like this show, it has a good premise and good cast and I like all the L&O tie ins, but the show really needs to get away from PD. I undertstand kicking the show off with a big crossover, but the last episode wasn't good as a technical first episode because it was so closely tied to PD and it was doubtful that they would write off a PD a character on a spinoff show so it took away most of the suspense. Hopefully the future episodes will let the show stand on its on. 

[WendyCR72]

Since this show had a backdoor pilot on CPD and Med had a backdoor pilot on Fire, I think, like it or not, all these Chicago shows will remain connected on some level.

Sure, it sucks for those who don't like the other shows, but IMO, it comes down to how well this show goes so one can at least tolerate the rest. Because I don't see it separating from the rest of the franchise. Its promotion even mentions the franchise, so...

And while it was a lot more subtle, the L&O franchise was connected with the Mothership, CI, SVU, and the failed Trial By Jury and Los Angeles. It is what it is.

[sockii]

Overall I am intrigued by the first two episodes, especially this second one. It hit a lot of the notes I miss from original L&O (and earlier seasons of SVU), with more of an emphasis on legal maneuvering, twisty plots, and courtroom drama mixed with investigation. I want to see the new characters more developed but I really enjoy the idea of Peter as Ben Stone's son and I just LOVED seeing Robinette again. I really hope we see more courtroom battles between the son and the former-associate-of-the-father. Yes, please. And I found Antonio more interesting here than on PD, sort of made me think more of Seda's role as Falsone on Homicide.

I sometimes watch PD but it's the only other Chicago franchise I'm into. I don't mind a level of crossover with it, in fact I like the idea of the SA's special investigators having to clean up the messes created by Voight's unit. It sort of showcases some of the problems there, just like the mothership could have drama between the DA's office and how the detectives sometimes operated.

[Enigma X]

I don't watch PD anymore, although I like it. I have not watched since season 2. Honestly in both episodes, I don't see how the pd characters took away from understanding the plot. 

[FnkyChkn34]

I thought this episode was good, but nothing super fantastic.  I'll give it a few more weeks.  The star of this episode, in my opinion, was the actor who plays Atwater - LaRoyce Hawkins.  He nailed it.  The scene in the locker room with Antonio, and then again on the basketball court were really good.

[Gigglepuff]

I'm officially a fan of this show. It's so refreshing. 

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I don't watch PD anymore, although I like it. I have not watched since season 2. Honestly in both episodes, I don't see how the pd characters took away from understanding the plot. 

The way I see it PD characters and their unlawful behavior, which seem to be known by the State's Attorney Office leaves a bad case of why isn't ASA Stone and Apollo Creed doing their job and trying to lock up Sergeant Voight.

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

The way I see it PD characters and their unlawful behavior, which seem to be known by the State's Attorney Office leaves a bad case of why isn't ASA Stone and Apollo Creed doing their job and trying to lock up Sergeant Voight.

Internal Affairs has to build a case against Voight and bring it to Stone. 

[Xeliou66]

Best episode so far. Loved the courtroom scenes, very good trial, the case was very reminiscent to me of an original L&O episode called Patriot, if anyone remembers it I'm sure you noticed the similarities, about a defendant who kills a Muslim guy who is apparently a terrorist. The closing argument from McCoy in that one  was very similar to Stone's in this one. Very strong episode overall, I liked the defense lawyer a lot as well, he was entertaining and very good. I was in suspense the whole way through, and I was unsure of whether I wanted the defendant to be found guilty or not. Very good, unbiased writing IMO, it took a good look at issues surrounding Muslims and political correctness and terrorism that are prominent issues today but without being preachy or picking a side really, the original L&O was always great at that and this episode was as well. 

Of course we still got a Voight appearance, which was totally unnecessary, but it least there was no tie in to PD and it was just pretrial hearing testimony. Hopefully this will be the end of PD appearances for a while, this show can definitely stand on its own. 

I would like a little more of the head DA, he is good but I would like more characterization and scenes with him, he doesn't quite have the personality of his counterparts from L&O but I hope we get more of him. 

[sockii]

I really liked it, definitely the best episode so far and also the most like classic Law & Order in style and structure (with a touch of Trial by Jury as well, I thought). The plot kept me guessing and I too think it did a good job of tackling controversial subjects without being either preachy or sensationalist.

The main characters are starting to come into their own, too, and making for an interesting team. The only one I'm not really keen on yet at all is Anna; she's a little too cardboard pretty assistant, like they want her to be a Claire or Abbie and I don't see any personality there yet for it (the next episode looks like it focuses more on her, so, I guess that will be the test for me.

Overall this show has me excited right now. It satisfies that jones I get for a good police/legal procedural like L&O, and is certainly outshining the current state of SVU in the writing department.

[Eolivet]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:09 PM, Tetraneutron said:

When a TV show needs to rely on "Hey, remember that thing that happened in the past with those characters who aren't here?" it's a sign the show is bad. Right now the show is relying very heavily on a character who hasn't been on our screens since 1994 to make us care and that's not a good thing. We should care about Peter Stone, and uh, blonde investigator and Latino investigator and Stone's cute assistant with the great hair and, uh, Carl Weathers. And it's a problem that I can't remember anyone's name. On the original "Law and Order" the characters felt lived-in. Like they had personalities and points of view. A Greevey line was different from a Logan line was different from a Stone line. Now everyone except Peter is interchangeable and just there. Their dialogue only serves to move the plot or be a didactic mouthpiece for a side in a conflict. Especially Carl Weathers. Compare him to Schiff or even Branch. He's a cipher. Does he believe in anything?

This. So. Much. I want to like this show -- desperately -- I miss old Law & Order. But I don't think the acting is very good. And it bothers me that they're basically trolling the old L&O audience by naming the character Stone -- at this point, I wonder if they are in some kind of secret negotiations with Michael Moriarty because it's too weird otherwise. I also don't think this actor is half the actor Moriarty was (though my favorite lines of the show have been the ones related to Stone: "one foot in heaven," that was a good line).

I don't watch Chicago PD, so this just played to me as "the police who investigate crime." It would kind of be weird to have no police on a L&O-type show, even if it's slanted towards the District Attorney's perspective. But it's interesting they didn't go out and cast new characters, and instead borrowed them from an existing show.

I can't watch SVU because the crimes bother me too much, so it was great to see "ripped-from-the-headlines" cases again. I just wish they had better actors to pull it off. The very best L&O always felt like great theater. To me, this feels like OK television.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Internal Affairs has to build a case against Voight and bring it to Stone. 

Actually I would expect the FBI and Justice Department to do it since the Chicago PD decided not to and the State's Attorney didn't run its own investigation because of Chicago City politics

[paigow]

1 hour ago, sockii said:

 The only one I'm not really keen on yet at all is Anna; she's a little too cardboard pretty assistant, like they want her to be a Claire or Abbie and I don't see any personality there yet for it (the next episode looks like it focuses more on her, so, I guess that will be the test for me.

The "inexperienced padewan" anvil has been dropped a few times so her "growth" should be gradual...Hopefully, Stone Jr is not a spiritual son of McCoy and avoids "getting involved" with subordinates....

[Guildford]

On 3/5/2017 at 9:43 PM, Sake614 said:

 

Serious question: do kids (Does anyone?) really accept friend requests from people they don't know??? I was stunned when that girl said she has over 1000 FB friends and doesn't know them all. I don't have anywhere near that many but I can say for certain that I know every single one of them.

Yes, sadly they do. It astounds me too. I mean who else is going to reply to your 'Today is the worst day EVA......' posts. 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Eolivet said:

. . . But it's interesting they didn't go out and cast new characters, and instead borrowed them from an existing show.

Well, that's the point of all of these Dick Wolf shows.  They all exist in the same "reality" so they all can cross over with each other.  Avid watchers, like myself, would have thought it strange if they had gone out and found random new characters and actors.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, sockii said:

I really liked it, definitely the best episode so far and also the most like classic Law & Order in style and structure (with a touch of Trial by Jury as well, I thought). The plot kept me guessing and I too think it did a good job of tackling controversial subjects without being either preachy or sensationalist.

The main characters are starting to come into their own, too, and making for an interesting team. The only one I'm not really keen on yet at all is Anna; she's a little too cardboard pretty assistant, like they want her to be a Claire or Abbie and I don't see any personality there yet for it (the next episode looks like it focuses more on her, so, I guess that will be the test for me.

Overall this show has me excited right now. It satisfies that jones I get for a good police/legal procedural like L&O, and is certainly outshining the current state of SVU in the writing department.

I totally agree.  I was a bit on the fence after the first 2 episodes, but this one was very good.  I liked that they got political, but it was still subtle, and addresses tough issues in a way that made me go, "huh... they have a point here..."  

I'm not too keen on either of the two women right now, but they aren't bad.  They just don't stand out in any way.  I'm sure they'll get better stories soon.

[Misslindsey]

50 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Well, that's the point of all of these Dick Wolf shows.  They all exist in the same "reality" so they all can cross over with each other.  Avid watchers, like myself, would have thought it strange if they had gone out and found random new characters and actors.

I agree. It does not bother me. Back when I did not watch all the Chicago shows, like I do now, I just treated the crossover characters as recurring characters that other shows have as well. Sometimes they do not add much to the plot like a paramedic popping up on Med, bartending at Molly's and sometimes they do. If they add more to the plot there are usually some throwaway lines about a character's background and other stuff. I imagine part of the reason of the crossover characters are for people who watch the other Chicago shows to tune in to this one.

[Sake614]

2 hours ago, Guildford said:

who else is going to reply to your 'Today is the worst day EVA......' posts.

Um, my actual friends? LOL!

[Xantar]

I'm not really sure why there has to be two investigators for the State's Attorney's office. We know from The Good Wife that one sufficiently badass investigator can solve a case all on his or her own. :-)

But seriously, I care about Antonio because I know him from Chicago PD. I've got no sense at all on the female investigator.

If I had it my way, this show wouldn't just be about murder all the time just like Chicago Med isn't all about traumatic injuries or Chicago Fire isn't all about fires. There are a lot of things that the State's Attorney's office does besides murder. The story surrounding the Baltimore City Detention Center would make an excellent episode.

But this isn't my show, so I'll just have to get used to the idea that every case is going to be a murder case. And as such things go, I thought it was pretty good. I don't know what a Muslim would have thought upon seeing it. The writers definitely went out on a limb and took on risky, controversial subjects. I have to do a lot of thinking before I decide whether or not they did it well, but I would rather have a show that takes risks than have one that plays it safe all the time.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Not there yet for me. The two crack SA investigators couldn't find evidence on the victim before the trial that he was a budding terrorist vs the award-winning student that someone did manage to dig up, so obviously the victim had been investigated (or defendant lied about that and Baby Stone just dropped it vs refute it? What?). IMO third fail in a row. I don't really want this show to be L&O: Chicago--I can watch the original and the best several hours a week (just last night I saw the Holocaust insurance scam episode--everyone so good, the writing amazing). Personally I would much prefer the focus to be only on the legal system and ditch the SA investigators--they aren't going to get any good story lines as the writers will send the crime-solving fun to PD. 

Plus 1000 on Anna's weak character, but at least I won't be upset that she never gets her own cases, as I was with the L&O women--I think Abby got to argue before the judge in her first episode (sick adopted Russian orphan baby) and then had a very long stretch before that happened again.

I do hope this show makes it, though.