Favorites and Least Favorite Lists: Everything Except Pies

[Nick24]

Well, I decided to come back to this thread, use some sections added by @roamyn (thank you for ideas!) and add some new ones too:

Favorite soundtrack: ''Lonely Is The Night" in 4.02, ''Man In The Wilderness'' in 8.01, ''Long Black Road'' in 10.10

Favorite mytharc: the Mark of Cain             Least favorite mytharc: Jack's issues, ''Leader''!Sam, Chuck!God losing his mind 

Favorite minor storyline: Demon!Dean, Purgatory flashbacks   

Favorite mid-season finale: A Very Supernatural Christmas, Abandon All Hope, Appointment in Samarra (Dean!Death), Citizen Fang (Dean/Benny)                                   

Least favorite mid-season finale: 12.08, 13.09, 15.08

Favorite mid-season opener:  Scarecrow and The Hunter Games; Maybe I'd also say Nihilism, but we all know how that story ended      

Least favorite mid-season opener: 11.10, 12.09, 13.10, 15.09

Favorite Dean's death: in Do You Believe In Miracles       Least favorite: 15.20

Favorite Sam's death: in AHBL1                                         Least favorite: 15.20

Favorite Villain: Azazel                      Least favorite Villain: Chuck!God, Lucifer

Favorite Demon: Demon!Dean 😉      Least favorite Demon: Belphegor and Asmodeus

Favorite Angel: Joshua & Alfie             Least favorite Angel: Dabb's Castiel 

Favorite Reaper: Tessa                        Least favorite Reaper: Billie (too much smugness)

Favorite Monster: Benny                   Least favorite Monster: Amy Pond

Favorite Relative: Henry Winchester              Least Favorite Relative: Resurrected Mary 

Favorite Friend: Benny                                Least favorite Friend: Castiel

Favorite Frenemy: Crowley

Favorite Fight: Dean's fight in Cain's house in 9.11 and Dean/Cain fight in 10.14    Least Favorite Fight: 14.01 slow-mo and 15.20 barn

Favorite Possession: Dean!Michael (because of wonderful Jensen's acting)     Least favorite Possession: Gadreel!Sam

Favorite Realm: Purgatory              Least favorite Realm: Heaven

The most shocking thing: sending Dean to Hell

The scariest moment: Hellhound killing Dean, Dean screaming in Hell and then after the blackout (3.16)

''Never saw it coming'' moment: Dean breaking the first seal

Edited June 12, 2022 by Nick24

[Katy M]

Favorite mytharc: Season 5, I guess             Least favorite mytharc:  Season 15 with God and his stupid AUs and the whole stupid thing

Favorite mid-season finale: I don't know how to choose, but I'm going with Appointment in Samarra. Ask me another day I'm sure it will be different.           

Least favorite mid-season finale: Whatever season 15's was.  I can not express my hatred for the final season enough.

Favorite mid-season opener:  Hunted?  I don't know. These are hard.    

Least favorite mid-season opener: Family Remains and whatever Season 15 was

Favorite Dean's death: No Rest for the Wicked.  That was so emotional       Least favorite: Do You Believe in Miracles.

Favorite Sam's death: in AHBL1                                         Least favorite: 15.20

Favorite Villain: Ruby or Gordon                      Least favorite Villain: Chuck!God

Favorite Demon: Ruby     Least favorite Demon: Asmodeus

Favorite Angel: Balthazar, maybe            Least favorite Angel: Zachariah maybe

Favorite Reaper: the reaper in Death's Door                        Least favorite Reaper: Billie 

Favorite Monster: the shapeshifter in Skin                  Least favorite Monster: Chuck

Favorite Relative: Henry Winchester, or Mark Campbell (I don'tknow why I really liekd him)             Least Favorite Relative: Season 6 Samuel 

Favorite Friend: Bobby                               Least favorite Friend: Benny, maybe

Favorite Frenemy: Crowley

Favorite Possession: the khan worm of Bobby in And Then there WEre none     Least favorite Possession: Gadreel!Sam

Favorite Realm: other than normal(?) The French Mistake              Least favorite Realm: The AU with New Michael and where Mary went

The most shocking thing: sending Dean to Hell

The scariest moment: I don't know if this couts but I thought the teaser to Jump the Shark was the best Jump Scare of the series. Too bad I didn't like the epi as a whole

''Never saw it coming'' moment: Chuck being God being the big Bad.  How many times can I somplain about that on one thread?  As many times as I can fit in.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Katy M

[Nick24]

Last time I forgot:

Favorite weapon: The First Blade. Dean's Purgatory knife was cool too. 

Least favorite weapon: Chuck's gun in 14.20 and S15.

[roamyn]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:31 AM, Nick24 said:

Well, I decided to come back to this thread, use some sections added by @roamyn (thank you for ideas!) and add some new ones too:

Favorite Possession: Dean!Michael (because of wonderful Jensen's acting)     Least favorite Possession: Gadreel!Sam

Favorite Realm: Purgatory              Least favorite Realm: Heaven

The scariest moment: Hellhound killing Dean, Dean screaming in Hell and then after the blackout (3.16)

YW

can I ask why you don’t like the Gadreel!Sam storyline?  I think it went on too long, but Jared did a wonderful job.  In fact, even tho I think Jensen is the better actor, I didn’t see Michael (as portrayed by Christian) in Dean, like I saw Gadreel (as portrayed by Tamoah) in Sam.  One of the rare cases I think Jared out acted Jensen.

I do agree that Heaven was boring, but I would put later Hell on there, too.  It just wasn’t scary, like in 03.16.

[ahrtee]

28 minutes ago, roamyn said:

YW

can I ask why you don’t like the Gadreel!Sam storyline?  I think it went on too long, but Jared did a wonderful job.  In fact, even tho I think Jensen is the better actor, I didn’t see Michael (as portrayed by Christian) in Dean, like I saw Gadreel (as portrayed by Tamoah) in Sam.  One of the rare cases I think Jared out acted Jensen.

I do agree that Heaven was boring, but I would put later Hell on there, too.  It just wasn’t scary, like in 03.16.

Not saying that one is the better actor, but I think the difference is that Jared created the Gadreel character, and Tamoh played it the way he set it up (and Sam was not part of that character).  I think Jensen was putting his "Dean" touches on the character Christian set up, since Dean was still in there fighting.  (Jared/Tamoh were playing Gadreel; Jensen was playing Michael/Dean.  Does that make sense?)  

ETA: Having said that, Jared did an excellent job switching back and forth between Sam and Gadreel.  We could see they were two completely different characters, with no bleed between them.

Edited June 16, 2022 by ahrtee

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

YW

can I ask why you don’t like the Gadreel!Sam storyline?  I think it went on too long, but Jared did a wonderful job.  In fact, even tho I think Jensen is the better actor, I didn’t see Michael (as portrayed by Christian) in Dean, like I saw Gadreel (as portrayed by Tamoah) in Sam.  One of the rare cases I think Jared out acted Jensen.

I do agree that Heaven was boring, but I would put later Hell on there, too.  It just wasn’t scary, like in 03.16.

Taking to B vs J thread. 

[roamyn]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:13 PM, ahrtee said:

Not saying that one is the better actor, but I think the difference is that Jared created the Gadreel character, and Tamoh played it the way he set it up (and Sam was not part of that character).  I think Jensen was putting his "Dean" touches on the character Christian set up, since Dean was still in there fighting.  (Jared/Tamoh were playing Gadreel; Jensen was playing Michael/Dean.  Does that make sense?)  

Good point.  I do recall Tamoah mentioning that JP actually created the Gadreel character and he was imitating Jared's performance.

I still think that SL went on too long.  It got frustrating & boring.  Compare thst w/the MoC SL, which was 1-1/2 seasons, yet Jensen made it and Dean interesting in that you never knew which Dean was going to show up.  Sometimes you could tell how deeply he was being affected, by Jensen's facial expressions or body movements. 

[FlickChick]

17 hours ago, roamyn said:

Good point.  I do recall Tamoah mentioning that JP actually created the Gadreel character and he was imitating Jared's performance.

I still think that SL went on too long.  It got frustrating & boring.  Compare thst w/the MoC SL, which was 1-1/2 seasons, yet Jensen made it and Dean interesting in that you never knew which Dean was going to show up.  Sometimes you could tell how deeply he was being affected, by Jensen's facial expressions or body movements. 

Re: bolded. This is, IMO, something Jensen brought into the storyline all on his own. I feel very certain that there was nothing in any script that said: "Dean: feeling the effects of the MoC, lashes out..." Jared acts what's written on the page with little to no additions to fit Sam's character. One of the reasons that Dean Winchester is such an iconic character is precisely because Jensen knows the character and imbues the character with every emotion possible in context with the scene. By doing that, we get into Dean's head and heart - which I believe is the reason the character is so loved by so many.

[DeeDee79]

Favorite Mytharc: Mark of Cain; Least Favorite: Psychic! Sam

Favorite Mid Season Finale: Death's Door; Least Favorite: Anything after season 11

Favorite Season Opener: Lazarus Rising; Least Favorite: Anything after season 11

Favorite Dean's Death: Mystery Spot ("Do these tacos taste funny to you?"); Least Favorite: Carry On

Favorite Sam's Death: All Hell Breaks Loose; Least Favorite: Carry On

Favorite Villain: Abaddon; Least Favorite: Lucifer

Favorite Demon: Crowley; Least Favorite: Asmodeus

Favorite Angel: Balthazar; Least Favorite: Anna

Favorite Reaper: Don't have one; Least Favorite: Don't have one

Favorite Monster: Rugaru from Metamorphosis; Least Favorite: Dick Roman

Favorite Relative: Henry Winchester; Least Favorite: All of the Campbells

Favorite Friend: Benny; Least Favorite: Garth

Favorite Frenemy: Henriksen; Least Favorite: Ketch

Favorite Possession: Meg!Sam; Least Favorite: Gadreel!Sam

Favorite Realm: Purgatory; Least Favorite: The Empty

Most Shocking: Metatron casting out the Angels from Heaven

Scariest Moment: Most of The Benders

Never Saw It Coming: Dean going to Hell 

[roamyn]

18 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Least Favorite: Garth

How can you not like Garth?!  He’s an odd, screwball character that actually knew how to hunt and to give lore.  (“Got a flamethrower?   No?  Then you need a good pair of tennis shoes, cause you need to run.”  Or something like it.)

What is it abt Garth that you don’t like?

Quote

18 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

Least Favorite: Dick Roman

I can understand this.  The Leviathan’s were a poorly drawn myth arch.  But James Patrick Stuart was amazing.  I thought only his & Edgar’s characters were fleshed out.  The rest were so generic, tho the ‘Mensa Monster’ in the basement of Rufus’s cabin was pretty funny.

[DeeDee79]

40 minutes ago, roamyn said:

How can you not like Garth?!  He’s an odd, screwball character that actually knew how to hunt and to give lore.  (“Got a flamethrower?   No?  Then you need a good pair of tennis shoes, cause you need to run.”  Or something like it.)

What is it abt Garth that you don’t like?

I can understand this.  The Leviathan’s were a poorly drawn myth arch.  But James Patrick Stuart was amazing.  I thought only his & Edgar’s characters were fleshed out.  The rest were so generic, tho the ‘Mensa Monster’ in the basement of Rufus’s cabin was pretty funny.

Garth always irritated me and I wasn’t crazy about the Leviathan storyline.

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Garth always irritated me and I wasn’t crazy about the Leviathan storyline.

And he named his kids after Sam and Castiel. Cancelled,  immediately. 

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

What is it abt Garth that you don’t like?

I know you haven't asked me, but I did not like Garth either. He seemed to be the writer's mouthpiece. Southern Comfort was the best example.

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And he named his kids after Sam and Castiel. Cancelled,  immediately. 

THIS!!! He had no reason to name his kid after Castiel. We'd never even seen Garth and Castiel together IIRC. That was another Dabb's Dean Hate Fest. God, how I loathe this ''writer''. He was petty enough to insult Dean using such ridiculous ways.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Nick24

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And he named his kids after Sam and Castiel. Cancelled,  immediately. 

I know the reasoning behind this, is because the writers already had plans for Dean’s name.

BUT....

1) the name ‘Castiel’ when he barely even knew who Cas was, was stupid;

2) Garth was always closer to Dean than Sam, so that was a slap in my he face.

BUT...

I don’t blame Garth or Bess.  I blame that nasty Andrew Dabb and his team.

Speaking of, what’s that slob doing lately?  See What Jensen’s been up to lately Dabb?

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

I don’t blame Garth or Bess.  I blame that nasty Andrew Dabb and his team.

I agree that we should blame Dabb, but if the character of Garth was written that way, how am I supposed to like him? 

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

Speaking of, what’s that slob doing lately?  See What Jensen’s been up to lately Dabb?

You mean Dabb? I don't want to disappoint anyone, but he's been working on Netflix. He'll release in July a show based on some computer game and also is developing some other show based on comics. Nothing original then. IMO he just has no his own ideas, that is why only ''based on...''. But the critics seem to love him (bleh), so apparently he's doing well.

[FlickChick]

On 6/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, Nick24 said:

But the critics seem to love him (bleh), so apparently he's doing well.

I simply don't understand this. He has zero talent IMO, and how can they love the man that sunk the unsinkable, longest running genre show in America? Makes me think twice about any so-called "critics". 👿

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

I simply don't understand this. He has zero talent IMO, and how can they love the man that sunk the unsinkable, longest running genre show in America? Makes me think twice about any so-called "critics". 👿

IA. I almost got a heart attack reading those ''critics'' praising for 15.20 and S15 as a whole.  Well, I guess reading anything positive about that S15 causes me both mental and physical pain.

And at the same time those ''critics'' seemed to dislike Carver, who at least wasn't ruining the show, which btw didn't belong to either of them. 

But the ''critics'' seem to love imo the worst episodes of the show. I have no idea, what's wrong with them.

As for Dabb's talent (Berens as well), they really don't have it at all. I still don't understand, how 10.02, 10.14, 10.17, 10.19 and 10.22 happened to be written by Dabb or Berens. I'm just wondering now, how much of that goodness was actually on those two and how much on Carver or someone else in the writers room.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Nick24

[roamyn]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:34 PM, Nick24 said:

As for Dabb's talent (Berens as well), they really don't have it at all. I still don't understand, how 10.02, 10.14, 10.17, 10.19 and 10.22 happened to be written by Dabb or Berens. I'm just wondering now, how much of that goodness was actually on those two and how much on Carver or someone else in the writers room.

Ghost writers.  Or they did an Edison and stole others’ ideas.

And it’s MO that alt of critics don’t actually watch entire series o get a feel for characters, background, mood, etc... of a show.

BTW, there’s nothing wrong with someone saying they like a specific episode, even if you don’t.  I happed to like 15.20, and most reactors on YouTube do as well.  After all, those reactors are just fans, like you & me.  We like what we like.  And it doesn’t mean that’s a bad episode, because you don’t.  Vice versa.  I’ve seen several reactors that actually like ‘Bugs’.  

Now if someone said they like ‘Bloodlines’, then they must be brain dead.  LOL

[Nick24]

1 minute ago, roamyn said:

BTW, there’s nothing wrong with someone saying they like a specific episode, even if you don’t.  

I never said, that there was something wrong. I've just stated my own feelings about that. 

4 minutes ago, roamyn said:

 I’ve seen several reactors that actually like ‘Bugs’.  

Oh, I never hated Bugs, btw. I didn't like it either. But I don't think that it was that horrible.

5 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Now if someone said they like ‘Bloodlines’, then they must be brain dead.  LOL

IMO 15.20 wasn't any better than Bloodlines. At least I can ignore Bloodlines. 15.20? Not so much.

[roamyn]

4 hours ago, Nick24 said:

I never said, that there was something wrong. I've just stated my own feelings about that. 

Oh, I never hated Bugs, btw. I didn't like it either. But I don't think that it was that horrible.

IMO 15.20 wasn't any better than Bloodlines. At least I can ignore Bloodlines. 15.20? Not so much.

Me, I don’t like ‘Bugs’.  At all.  It’s just in front of ‘Bloodlines’to me.

I like 15.20 because it focuses on the guys.  Would I have changed a few things?  Yes.  I think the impact of Dean’s death was lessened because we saw him in Heaven 15 min later.  I know people will criticize, but I would’ve liked to see more of Sam’s life.  Did he still hunt?  Did he introduce Dean Jr to the MoL bunker or hunting?  WHO DID HE MARRY?

I dislike Cas fans whining abt Misha not being there, even tho Misha himself said he wanted Cas to go out the way he did.  The show started w/Sam & Dean, and that’s how it should’ve ended.  

Dean was always going to die on a hunt.  Always.  Did the vamps look stupid w/those mime masks?  Yes, but chalk that up to COVID.  Same w/everyone not being available to meet the guys up in Heaven.  They did the best they could under the circumstances.  The lines weren’t the best, but I can live with them.

[Nick24]

32 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Me, I don’t like ‘Bugs’.  At all.  It’s just in front of ‘Bloodlines’to me.

I like 15.20 because it focuses on the guys.  Would I have changed a few things?  Yes.  I think the impact of Dean’s death was lessened because we saw him in Heaven 15 min later.  I know people will criticize, but I would’ve liked to see more of Sam’s life.  Did he still hunt?  Did he introduce Dean Jr to the MoL bunker or hunting?  WHO DID HE MARRY?

I dislike Cas fans whining abt Misha not being there, even tho Misha himself said he wanted Cas to go out the way he did.  The show started w/Sam & Dean, and that’s how it should’ve ended.  

Dean was always going to die on a hunt.  Always.  Did the vamps look stupid w/those mime masks?  Yes, but chalk that up to COVID.  Same w/everyone not being available to meet the guys up in Heaven.  They did the best they could under the circumstances.  The lines weren’t the best, but I can live with them.

Answering to the writers thread.

[Scout Finch]

I didn't the first time but this time around am either muting or, like I'm doing now in S12, fast-forwarding through any scenes with scenery-consuming Mark Pellegrino's one-note Lucifer. Is he ever NOT sardonic? As much as I dislike Metatron, he's a lot less annoying. At the end of S12 and now I have three seasons of wishing I didn't know Jack [shit].

[roamyn]

8 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

I didn't the first time but this time around am either muting or, like I'm doing now in S12, fast-forwarding through any scenes with scenery-consuming Mark Pellegrino's one-note Lucifer. Is he ever NOT sardonic? As much as I dislike Metatron, he's a lot less annoying. At the end of S12 and now I have three seasons of wishing I didn't know Jack [shit].

Yeah, as good an actor as MP is, by the 11th season the character had become one note.  He started off charming, like a snake with a golden tongue, but then devolved into trying to be Crowley-sarcastic.  Which isn’t the right note for the character on SPN.  Plus, TPTB kept bringing him back!  

As much as I hated Metatron, Curtis Armstrong is such a good actor, that he was fun to hate.  

[Nick24]

8 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

I didn't the first time but this time around am either muting or, like I'm doing now in S12, fast-forwarding through any scenes with scenery-consuming Mark Pellegrino's one-note Lucifer. Is he ever NOT sardonic? 

5 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Yeah, as good an actor as MP is, by the 11th season the character had become one note.

It seems to me that the writers (probably the Duo?) in S11-13 wanted him to be like S7 Hallucifer. S11-13 Lucifer didn't have much in common with S5 Lucifer IMO. 

[roamyn]

6 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

It seems to me that the writers (probably the Duo?) in S11-13 wanted him to be like S7 Hallucifer. S11-13 Lucifer didn't have much in common with S5 Lucifer IMO. 

And then, with no logic and an unrealistic explanation. They brought back Nick.

While I did think MP played Nick differently than Lucifer, by that time the fans were f*g sick and tired of seeing him on the screen and eating up so much of S14.

if the writers had eliminated Nick, and spent more time developing Jack and the Diechal storline, I don’t think parts of the fan base would be so against the Nephilimn character.

Edited July 17, 2022 by roamyn

[Nick24]

1 minute ago, roamyn said:

And then, with no logic and an unrealistic explanation. They brought back Nick.

Dabb and logic? Are you serious? 😁

3 minutes ago, roamyn said:

While I did think MP played Nick differently than Lucifer, by that time the fans were f*g sick and tired of seeing him on the screen and eating up so much of S14.

True! IMO They should have never brought either Lucifer in S11 or Nick back. 

[ahrtee]

30 minutes ago, roamyn said:

if the writers had eliminated Nick, and spent more time developing Jack and the Diechal storline, I don’t think parts of the fan base would be so against the Nephilimn character.

No,  I'd still be against Jack, mostly because he "sucked the air" out of the rest of the story, and the rest of the characters.  Maybe he might have developed more of his own fan base like Misha did, but Castiel was supporting the Winchesters, not becoming the lead on his own.  There would always be many who resented him for taking over the story, especially if the writers spent *more* time on him.

ETA: It felt very "Cousin Oliver" to me.  The leads were now 15 years older than when they started, and TPTB wanted to appeal to a younger audience.

Edited July 17, 2022 by ahrtee

[roamyn]

32 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

ETA: It felt very "Cousin Oliver" to me.  The leads were now 15 years older than when they started, and TPTB wanted to appeal to a younger audience

Not completely true.  All three leads wanted more time with their families.  The twins were still toddlers and that’s a lot to put on one person.  Running a household, three children - including twins, and setting up Chaos Productions - which the Ackles were getting started towards the end of the series.

I didn’t like Jack, but by S14 I was okay with Alex being part of the team, as it was better to add a new character than burn out your existing cast.

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, roamyn said:

Not completely true.  All three leads wanted more time with their families.  The twins were still toddlers and that’s a lot to put on one person.  Running a household, three children - including twins, and setting up Chaos Productions - which the Ackles were getting started towards the end of the series.

I didn’t like Jack, but by S14 I was okay with Alex being part of the team, as it was better to add a new character than burn out your existing cast.

There are other (and better) ways to give the leads time off than adding a new character who takes over.  The fact that he was so much younger seemed particularly pointed.  But I wouldn't have minded him being "part of the team;" it was the focus being on him at the expense of the others (who became merely support/cheerleaders) that annoyed me.  

[Scout Finch]

When he wasn't onscreen, they'd still refer to him all the time, "Where's Jack? Is he still sleeping? Here's his sippy cup. I wonder if his mood will be good or planet-disrupting today? Did he have a BM yesterday?"

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, Scout Finch said:

When he wasn't onscreen, they'd still refer to him all the time, "Where's Jack? Is he still sleeping? Here's his sippy cup. I wonder if his mood will be good or planet-disrupting today? Did he have a BM yesterday?"

They did the same for Cas.

”Where is Cas?  “Why hasn’t he checked in?”  “Something’s going on with Cas.”  Calling him when they could.  “Your one job is to heal.”  “Step away from the Netflix?”

Heck Dean referred to and worried over Sam when he wasn’t in a scene with him.

I’d say that sadly, rarely did they worry over Dean, except when he was demonized, during the MoC, and when Michael had taken him over.  

Edited July 17, 2022 by roamyn

[Nick24]

2 hours ago, roamyn said:

I’d say that sadly, rarely did they worry over Dean, except when he was demonized, during the MoC, and when Michael had taken him over.  

IMO They were more worried about what Demon!Dean/MoC!Dean could do to them/other people, than they were about Dean himself. Heck, both Sam and Castiel were ready to kill Dean in 10.03. As for Michael!Dean, I didn't see anyone who missed Dean in 14.01.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Nick24

[ahrtee]

10 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

As for Michael!Dean, I didn't see anyone who missed Dean in 14.01.

How could you forget Sam's Grief Beard! 😀

[Nick24]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

How could you forget Sam's Grief Beard! 😀

Oh, I haven't! Probably that Grief Beard itself were worried about Dean, but its host didn't know that.😄

[roamyn]

6 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Heck, both Sam and Castiel were ready to kill Dean in 10.03

They weren’t ready to kill Dean, but Cas did state that he might have to.  There’s a difference in stating you might have to kill someone to save the world, then by wanting to do it.

When Sam had the demon blade to Deanmon’s throat, he couldn’t do it.

6 hours ago, Nick24 said:

IMO They were more worried about what Demon!Dean/MoC!Dean could do to them/other people, than they were about Dean himself.

Boy you’re watching a completely different show.

In S10 Sam expressly says he’s trying to save his brother.  There’s nothing that says he’s trying to save the world.

WHERE DOES ALL THIS SAM HATE COME FROM?!  I’m getting sick of it, and I’m not necessarily a Sam fan.

[ahrtee]

55 minutes ago, roamyn said:

WHERE DOES ALL THIS SAM HATE COME FROM?!  I’m getting sick of it, and I’m not necessarily a Sam fan.

I'll admit to Jack hate.  (He was boring and yet put up on a writer's pedestal for no reason I could see except he was a new and shiny pet.  They kept saying how wonderful he was and how everyone loved him--or should love him--without showing why.)

Sam is more...dislike, coupled with extreme annoyance.  It didn't start that way for me, but grew over the years, watching his interactions (mostly with Dean, but often with others.)  I gained more sympathy for Dean over the years, and more impatient with Sam.  IDK if that was the way they wrote him (what the writers thought showed "growth") or the way he was played.  What happened was that I didn't want to watch him.  

ETA: About watching a different show--it's way too common.  People can watch the exact same thing and see  something completely different, depending on where their sympathies lie.  

Edited July 18, 2022 by ahrtee

[Nick24]

7 hours ago, roamyn said:

They weren’t ready to kill Dean, but Cas did state that he might have to.  There’s a difference in stating you might have to kill someone to save the world, then by wanting to do it.

When Sam had the demon blade to Deanmon’s throat, he couldn’t do it.

The cure could've been killing Dean. They kept going, so IMO they were ready to do it. I wasn't talking about the blade. 

7 hours ago, roamyn said:

In S10 Sam expressly says he’s trying to save his brother.  There’s nothing that says he’s trying to save the world.

Save him from what? Demon!Dean did nothing horrible. MoC!Dean was doing more or less OK (until 10.22-10.23). Sam said very interesting words in 10.18:

Quote

SAM: Until I watch you become a demon again? Until then? I can’t do that. I won’t do that

Sam once again made it about himself. It wasn't about Dean turning into his worst nightmare but about Sam having to watch it. The same for Castiel:

Quote

CASTIEL:  I'm the one who will have to watch you murder the world.

If the writers wanted to show Sam/Castiel being worried about Dean, they should have tried harder.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Also the issue can be the way Jared was playing Sam. Mostly he couldn't convince me in Sam being worried about Dean even when I realized, that the writer had written ''Sam is really worried about Dean". But there are a few episodes, where I was convinced - 1.12, 2.01, 3.16, 11.23, 12.11. And I liked Sam in those episodes. That's a shame, that we didn't have many of them.

As for Sam ''hate'', that is mostly annoyance of the way he was written. Well, people make mistakes. Sometimes people learn nothing from it. I can live with that. But every time it was ''Sam is right no matter what, Dean is wrong''.

BTW, I've said some nice things about Sam (and Castiel) talking about 11.23, because I do think it finally gave them some character growth and I really warmed up to both of them. But then Dabb and Co. ruined everything.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Nick24

[gonzosgirrl]

That's what we have the Bitch vs Jerk thread for. ;)  

[MAK]

12 hours ago, roamyn said:

WHERE DOES ALL THIS SAM HATE COME FROM?!  

IA with others, it's not hate, unless it's towards the writers.

I stand with those who say that SPN would not be what it was if it was only one lead. It lasted, succeeded,  whatever, because of them both. Or rather all four, Dean, Sam, Jensen, and Jared. 

But most people will have a preference.

Edited July 18, 2022 by MAK
Spelling