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The Sounds of Our Lives (formerly General Music Discussion)

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On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 1:25 AM, Cranberry said:

A little late to the party but this is interesting as I would have been 33 in 1998 and I stopped listening to new music around 1993.  Close enough.  I even remember writing to Rolling Stone magazine to tell them why I was cancelling my subscription in that I didn't think the crap they were featuring as cover stories in the early/mid 1990's would have the staying power of the bands I loved such as the Beatles and Led Zeppelin.

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On 9/18/2017 at 9:18 AM, vibeology said:

The reason people write articles defending someone like Taylor is because there are hundreds of articles going after her not for being unprofessional or a criminal but just for being someone who wrote a whiny song. (And it is a whiny song and she needs to grow up and get out of her own ass. Her fame cannot just be about her own persona. That will always collapse in on itself - look at Gaga before her.) The scrutiny women in the industry deal with is on a whole other level than the men. It's not even close. Like, I do not like Taylor so I'm not the best person to take up her defense and I do think her choices warrant some dragging but the idea that women have it easier is a joke to me. Being a white male is living life on the easiest setting there is - the "chick card" or the "race card" are bs words white men (almost exclusively) use to try to play victim of a system designed for their own success.

A whiny song?

Back however long ago when it was revealed that Swift was dating Tom Hiddleston, the first question from many people was "What will their breakup song be like?" That doesn't happen in a vacuum, not when pretty much her entire career before this most recent CD has been based on "We broke up and now I hate you, unless I miss you because I treated you badly." I think that Taylor is an expert at playing the PR game, which is why now she's reinventing herself a little bit with Look What You Made Me Do. But I also think that she's a bad breaker-upper - (TM) Seinfeld - and that's reflected in a lot of her early music. No one would be inclined to let it slide if Bieber had a single called You Belong With Me, nor should they, and I don't see why Swift shouldn't be called out for being kind of a Nice Girl just because she's blonde and moderately pretty.

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1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

A whiny song?

Back however long ago when it was revealed that Swift was dating Tom Hiddleston, the first question from many people was "What will their breakup song be like?" That doesn't happen in a vacuum, not when pretty much her entire career before this most recent CD has been based on "We broke up and now I hate you, unless I miss you because I treated you badly." 

But you never hear anybody say things like this about Adele, whose almost every song is a dirge about failed love. It just so happens that her failed relationships weren't with someone famous, & that's the only reason people are interested in Taylor's "break up" songs.

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Just now, GaT said:

But you never hear anybody say things like this about Adele, whose almost every song is a dirge about failed love. It just so happens that her failed relationships weren't with someone famous, & that's the only reason people are interested in Taylor's "break up" songs.

Adele doesn't blame the guy for all of her breakups, though, nor does she whine about how non-relationship people are mean to her.

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37 minutes ago, GaT said:

But you never hear anybody say things like this about Adele, whose almost every song is a dirge about failed love. It just so happens that her failed relationships weren't with someone famous, & that's the only reason people are interested in Taylor's "break up" songs.

 

36 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Adele doesn't blame the guy for all of her breakups, though, nor does she whine about how non-relationship people are mean to her.

Not to mention that Adele's songs about her relationship was about ONE relationship. The entire 21 album was about ONE relationship that lasted for more than two years. And the relationship songs on 19, Adele's first album was about the same guy she wrote about on 21, who she was in the relationship with at the time she did 19 and after it was released and her fame grew. Swift supporters have been trying that argument for awhile now. "But Adele sings about relationships and no one talks about her like they do Taylor". 

Yes, Adele's ex wasn't famous (or he could be and people just don't know. Like how it's famously believed that Alanis Morrisette's Jagged Little Pill album was about Dave Coulier since the relationship happened before Alanis was famous) but that's not the reason Adele doesn't get the judgement Taylor gets. For starters, all of Adele's music isn't all about how wronged she was and how awful every single guy was to her, like she herself has no culpability ever.

Two, she didn't build a reputation of making thinly veiled jabs in her songs about people and proudly and smugly admitting it and declaring that if guys don't want her to write about them then they shouldn't do bad things. She didn't have a parade of multiple two minute relationships with famous people and then proceed to write multiple songs about said relationship like it was some epic love story. And finally, when Adele is asked about her past relationship that she chose to write an entire album about, she doesn't act like people are being rude, anti-feminists and slut shaming her for sticking to a narrative that she helped create. That's the difference. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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26 minutes ago, GaT said:

But you never hear anybody say things like this about Adele, whose almost every song is a dirge about failed love. It just so happens that her failed relationships weren't with someone famous, & that's the only reason people are interested in Taylor's "break up" songs.

I've seen the Adele comparison before, and on a superficial level you're correct. But you could say the same about a dozen other female singers. Christina Perri's Jar of Hearts sounds exactly like something Taylor would sing - "Who do you think you are? Running 'round leaving scars? Collecting your jar of hearts,  and tearing love apart?" But there's a way where Taylor seems particularly manipulative about it, and I can't accurately describe it because it's so subjective. And if I can just make an observation, there's a way where criticizing her somehow turns into criticizing all women, as if the acknowledged existence of sexism means we shouldn't differentiate.

Edited by Cobalt Stargazer

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Almost every singer/musician has songs about relationships. As the old saying goes, the two greatest themes of art, are love and death. It's like 90 percent of what every movie, song, art, dance, etc. is about. So really we can point to any singer and find songs they've done about a relationship, whether good or bad. The difference again is that Taylor helped shape and create a narrative around herself that she takes no responsibility for. That's the problem.

Okay, she was young when she started and maybe made some choices with her songs and image that she regrets, which is fine. The problem is that well into her mid-20's she was still doing the, "my latest celebrity fling ended, ooh, time to write song about said guy while not mentioning his name but everyone will know it's about him" and then she later tries to put on some feminist cape and accuse people of slut shaming when they focus on and call out the narrative she helped create. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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22 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

A whiny song?

I know. I meant this album cycle. I know there's another song out but I haven't heard it and the articles and backlash in the past few weeks are mainly a reaction to LWYMMD as a song and video.

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I'm not going to pretend I know either Taylor Swift's or Adele's entire oeuvre, but the first thing I think of when the lyrics of the two are compared is that Adele doesn't spend half of the time comparing herself to other people.

Not to mention Adele isn't contradictory/hypocritical within her songs (cf. "Mean," in which Taylor says some pretty mean things, and "Shake it Off," whose mere existence is a demonstration of her not shaking it off).

Edited by janie jones
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On 9/20/2017 at 11:30 AM, vibeology said:

I know. I meant this album cycle. I know there's another song out but I haven't heard it and the articles and backlash in the past few weeks are mainly a reaction to LWYMMD as a song and video.

General question, because I don't know the answer and I would like to - why does it only seem to be Taylor Swift who gets people lunging to her defense, regardless of if they actually like her or her music or not?

Granted, it's more of a celebrity-related peeve, but the conversation started here, so. People who call Miley Cyrus a twerking skank get less heat than people who call Taylor an often manipulative wench, and I would think that the former would be the greater offense, even if Miley Cyrus is a twerking skank. I don't really like Miley, but I think the way she grew up is part of what's wrong, that like many child actors in the past she had to mature too fast in addition to apparently being the breadwinner of the family. Does her dad even record these days? Taylor doesn't seem to have that issue, or if she does I'm not aware of it. Being well-adjusted is certainly not a crime, but I don't get why there's such a passion to protect her from any and all criticism.

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22 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

General question, because I don't know the answer and I would like to - why does it only seem to be Taylor Swift who gets people lunging to her defense, regardless of if they actually like her or her music or not?

 

Kanye West. What he did was such a dick move that it pretty much put everyone into "defend Taylor" mode & they stayed there. 

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45 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

General question, because I don't know the answer and I would like to - why does it only seem to be Taylor Swift who gets people lunging to her defense, regardless of if they actually like her or her music or not?

 

I think a lot of it has to do with people (either young women who grew up listening to her, or more old-fashioned parents who liked that she "kept her clothes on") wanting to hold on to the image she started with--the idea that she was a wholesome, modest Everygirl who sang country music (or pop country music), and wrote and sang about simple things like having crushes on boys at school who didn't seem to notice you, even though that's all but gone now (and had signs of not being all that genuine even early on). By contrast, Britney Spears, even when she was 16-17 and had only one album out, was more openly provocative, even as her own sweet personality shined through. And I'm sure Britney's breakdown occurring right as Taylor was starting to find success played a factor, too--the idea that this young woman (Taylor) had her head on straight, and wouldn't lose her way like they felt Britney did.

 

Now, of course, a lot of this is up for debate, but these are my main impressions. 

Edited by UYI

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57 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

General question, because I don't know the answer and I would like to - why does it only seem to be Taylor Swift who gets people lunging to her defense, regardless of if they actually like her or her music or not?

Granted, it's more of a celebrity-related peeve, but the conversation started here, so. People who call Miley Cyrus a twerking skank get less heat than people who call Taylor an often manipulative wench, and I would think that the former would be the greater offense, even if Miley Cyrus is a twerking skank. I don't really like Miley, but I think the way she grew up is part of what's wrong, that like many child actors in the past she had to mature too fast in addition to apparently being the breadwinner of the family. Does her dad even record these days? Taylor doesn't seem to have that issue, or if she does I'm not aware of it. Being well-adjusted is certainly not a crime, but I don't get why there's such a passion to protect her from any and all criticism.

Speaking for myself, I got annoyed with that stuff with Miley, too, for the very reasons you mention. I think anyone who starts out as a teen pop star tends to have a rough road ahead of them because of all the contradictory demands people make of them and their image, and they're in an industry where skeezy people can and do take advantage of them in all sorts of ways, and so people really shouldn't be all that shocked when they go through their "wild" periods as a result. Society's seen this story play out so many times, you'd think we would've learned how to better respond to all of it by now. 

Plus, I'm just really uncomfortable with the whole "skanky"/"slutty" terminology for women in general anyway, and the whole thing of judging women for how they dress or how sexual they are. The "growing up too fast" concerns are completely valid, but calling a teenage girl a "skank" or a "slut" doesn't exactly seem like a reasonable response to those concerns. And if the teenage girl's parents haven't enforced any sorts of boundaries for her, then she's probably not going to respond well to the criticisms of adults who aren't her parents, either. 

Edited by Annber03
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10 hours ago, GaT said:

Kanye West. What he did was such a dick move that it pretty much put everyone into "defend Taylor" mode & they stayed there. 

Can I just say that the thing I love about the Kanye West thing at the VMAs is that although I've heard a lot of people talk about how rude, etc. that was of him, I myself have never once heard someone disagree with him.  Which I think is funny.  (Well, I mean, poor Taylor, because I'm sure it was mortifying, but still.)

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1 minute ago, janie jones said:

because I'm sure it was mortifying

What I can't understand is why you never hear anybody talk about how mortifying it must have been for Beyonce. Can you imagine what she must have thought when Kanye suddenly dragged her into that? She handled it gracefully I thought, but still, she must have been horrified. All because Kanye was a drunk asshole.

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Well, probably because Beyonce wasn't in the middle of attempting to give an acceptance speech on the award in question when it happened, and then still had to give it immediately after it happened.  And it wasn't Beyonce who was being insulted.

Not that I don't agree that it must have been awful for Beyonce.

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If you watch the clip, when he says it, Beyonce kind of smiles in disbelief and says, "Oh, Kanye." It was probably an awkward smile because she was embarrassed and didn't know how else to react. She did give Taylor the mic to finish her speech when Beyonce wound up winning Video of the Year (the big award, as opposed to Best Female Video, which Taylor beat her for--you should have been more patient, Kanye!), something I'm sure she felt some pressure to do so she wouldn't look even worse because of Kanye. 

Edited by UYI
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On 9/22/2017 at 9:34 AM, UYI said:

If you watch the clip, when he says it, Beyonce kind of smiles in disbelief and says, "Oh, Kanye." It was probably an awkward smile because she was embarrassed and didn't know how else to react. She did give Taylor the mic to finish her speech when Beyonce wound up winning Video of the Year (the big award, as opposed to Best Female Video, which Taylor beat her for--you should have been more patient, Kanye!), something I'm sure she felt some pressure to do so she wouldn't look even worse because of Kanye. 

The annoying part was it was completely obvious to sober people that of COURSE Beyoncé was going to win video of the year so of course they would give best female to someone else. VMAs don't do that one person wins all the awards thing

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On 9/18/2017 at 5:23 PM, dr. gailey said:

It wasn't Believer so I am still looking.

Did you ever find out the song?

On 9/19/2017 at 3:03 PM, GaT said:

But you never hear anybody say things like this about Adele, whose almost every song is a dirge about failed love. It just so happens that her failed relationships weren't with someone famous, & that's the only reason people are interested in Taylor's "break up" songs.

This is a decent point, but Adele has a great voice to just enjoy to where what she's singing is kind of secondary. Taylor's a fair-to-middling singer -- she sings like a songwriter -- which makes her break-up songs sound less romantic and performative. Taylor's writing reminds me of a Dane Cook bit where he says when guys break up with women, they just walk around their apartments naked and then somehow wind up on the floor doing little rhythms with their hands. He says those turn into awful songs about their exes like, "someone's a big fat biiiiitch ... I see your cellulite-lite ..."

On 9/19/2017 at 3:45 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Almost every singer/musician has songs about relationships. As the old saying goes, the two greatest themes of art, are love and death. It's like 90 percent of what every movie, song, art, dance, etc. is about. So really we can point to any singer and find songs they've done about a relationship, whether good or bad. The difference again is that Taylor helped shape and create a narrative around herself that she takes no responsibility for. That's the problem.

Sidebar: this is why I like Pink. She's amassed a bunch of hits without always singing about love in the amorous sense. I'm tired of those love songs.

On 9/21/2017 at 2:45 PM, Annber03 said:

Speaking for myself, I got annoyed with that stuff with Miley, too, for the very reasons you mention. I think anyone who starts out as a teen pop star tends to have a rough road ahead of them because of all the contradictory demands people make of them and their image, and they're in an industry where skeezy people can and do take advantage of them in all sorts of ways, and so people really shouldn't be all that shocked when they go through their "wild" periods as a result. Society's seen this story play out so many times, you'd think we would've learned how to better respond to all of it by now. 

Plus, I'm just really uncomfortable with the whole "skanky"/"slutty" terminology for women in general anyway, and the whole thing of judging women for how they dress or how sexual they are. The "growing up too fast" concerns are completely valid, but calling a teenage girl a "skank" or a "slut" doesn't exactly seem like a reasonable response to those concerns. And if the teenage girl's parents haven't enforced any sorts of boundaries for her, then she's probably not going to respond well to the criticisms of adults who aren't her parents, either. 

Eh. I can't really give Miley the same benefit of the doubt. I think this idea of young women growing up in the spotlight and sort of "acting out" was A Thing back with Christina and Britney just because of where we were culturally. Miley's acting out phase seemed way too calculated and overdetermined. It seemed more embarrassing than anything else. And I think a lot of people wanted Miley to go the more adult contemporary/pop-rock route like Kelly Clarkson and the aforementioned Pink, or even Country.

I'm not quick on the draw with calling women skanky or slutty, but I do think those terms are used when a female is being a little too obvious about trying to be sexual. I don't think most people are going to call any female a slut because she has on a short skirt or her midriff is showing. The other reason is that sometimes young female artists try to sex up non-sexy songs. "Wrecking Ball" -- bad production aside -- was a song about ruining a relationship because you're doing too much. It's not a sexy song at all, but Miley had to writhe around on a literal wrecking ball naked. I didn't think she was slutty, but that is the kind of thing people would consider slutty.

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Cardi B ("Bodak Yellow") is officially the first female rapper to have a solo number one hit on the Billboard Hot 100 since Lauryn Hill ("Doo Wop (That Thing)")19 years ago!

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Lin Manuel Miranda's new music video/single to raise money for Puerto Rico.

 

With Marc Anthony, Ruben Blades, Camila Cabello, Pedro Capo, Dessa, Gloria Estefan, Fat Joe, Luis Fonsi, Juan Luis Guerra, Alex Lacamoire, John Leguizamo, Jennifer Lopez, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Rita Moreno, Ednita Nazario, Joell Ortiz, Anthony Ramos, Gina Rodriguez, Gilberto Santa Rosa, PJ Sin Suela, Tommy Torres, Ana Villafañe.

 

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Okay people I have found the song I was looking for. True story, I was in Walgreen's standing in the pharmacy line. This is the first place I heard the song ever. So I was thinking to myself, what if it plays again. As soon as I paid for my order, the song came on. I heard the whole thing this time. Went home and googled the lyrics.

Nick and Vinz-In Your Arms

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14 hours ago, dr. gailey said:

Okay people I have found the song I was looking for. True story, I was in Walgreen's standing in the pharmacy line. This is the first place I heard the song ever. So I was thinking to myself, what if it plays again. As soon as I paid for my order, the song came on. I heard the whole thing this time. Went home and googled the lyrics.

Nick and Vinz-In Your Arms

I  love Nico and Vinz!  I play their cd all the time.

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On 7/20/2016 at 8:10 PM, PatternRec said:

Look at how many classic blues songs have the same rhythm and bass line as the pop atrocity I Want Candy

That's Bo Diddly's signature beat right there.

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So, on Rolling Stone's site, a truly strange article has an oral history. Of what, you wonder?

Why, an oral history of that most cheesetastic tune from 1992, Right Said Fred's "I'm Too Sexy". Yes, I said an oral history about Right Said Fred and "I'm Too Sexy".

Our lives are now complete, people!

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I need to start this off by saying I do not, in general, like rap music (though there are exceptions), and I don't know any of Young Thug's music, but his bit in Camila Cabello's "Havana" fits in perfectly (even though I don't understand a thing he's saying, other than "Jeffrey").

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Posting this here because I couldn't find a video thread. So 50s, I love the bubble gum colors and how the story in the clip is about a life that really is not the typical 50s (or is it 60s?).  And Channing Tatum features, of course. And the credits are awesome.

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Any other fans?

I absolutely love her. I wish she had had more success with the singles from The Weight of These Wings, but in a weird way that lack of chart success may actually lead to more creative freedom for her in the long run.

These are four of my favorite songs of hers:

Alright, fine, here are two more favorites.

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19 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Todd just came out with his top ten of the year.  And his number one just left me scratching my head.

Really? I predicted it all along. I was THRILLED! 

But YMMV, of course. :)

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On 10/24/2017 at 1:07 AM, Sandman87 said:

That's Bo Diddly's signature beat right there.

David Bowie (on my musical Mount Rushmore) used a salsa variation of the "Bo Diddley" beat on his incredible "Panic in Detroit" from Aladdin Sane:  

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Stevie Nicks' impromptu sing along to "Wild Heart" during a makeup session for a Rolling Stone photo shoot is just heart melting.  What a beautiful and talented woman.

 

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Sorry for three posts in a row, last one for the night.  Just wanted to share a beautiful Joni Mitchell track "Edith and the Kingpin" from one of her many outstanding albums "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" (1975).  Such a lush and sultry 70s vibe, with that beautiful creamy guitar tone from one of my favorites Larry Carlton on his ES-335.

 

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Beautiful song (written by Leon Russell) performed by one of the greatest soul vocalists ever (and an exceptional pianist/keyboard arranger as well) -- Donny Hathaway.  "A Song For You"

 

And a great live performance from another soul legend:

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