S03.E12: Go Cry Somewhere Else

[starri]

Yeah, but can we talk about Oliver's speckles of gray hair in the scene outside the memorial?  I think Conrad Ricamora is gorgeous, but that made him even hotter.

I wonder who on the music staff is a fan of Zola Jesus.  That's the third time they've used one of her songs to cap an episode.

[Milaxx]

Can we talk about Laurel telling the poor lady at the coroners office, "You're going to hell someday." ? The delivery was the perfect combo of grief, shock and anger. iCackled.

[starri]

Just now, Milaxx said:

Can we talk about Laurel telling the poor lady at the coroners office, "You're going to hell someday." ? The delivery was the perfect combo of grief, shock and anger. iCackled.

Karla Souza is killing it.  Although I like my Laurel cold and calculating.  This spun off her axis and vulnerable thing is fine for now, but while I love Michaela's "The New Annalise" moment, I miss Laurel's turn as "The New Bonnie."

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I wonder about some of the extras. For example they get well know actors like Brett Butler and Esai Morales cast as their parents and barely use them. 

Oh, don't even get me started on this shit,it annoys me to no end, ugh.  Norwalk in magazine interviews talking about delving into Michaela's background, Laurel's and Connor's. Really? "Delving?" I wouldn't use that word for what I got. This is the shortchanged writing that use to go on with every characters back ground on Grey's except Meredith's and it bugged the shit out of me. Norwalk, this too is something that you need to leave on the floor that your mentor Shonda taught you. You need to have family members on recurring status, get it worked out way ahead of time and put in the detail.  ER use to do this extremely well back in the day, extremely well back when Clooney was on it and even after he left they kept it up for all their key characters not just the leads. It was excellent. They had family members in an out of the show every damn season making sense that they showed up when they did.  I don't know how they managed it, but they did, they got those actors back and forth on that show.

So with that, where the fuck is Mrs. Trishelle Pratt? And back in Bayou is not the answer I'm looking for.

 

President Hardgrove, I just have to say that she and Anna have chemistry, it could be friendship, but sometimes I feel like it could be lovers chemistry. They need to keep the actress and use her. It's  good to see her because I personally haven't seen the actress since "Oz" on HBO when she use to go by the name Lauren.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[secnarf]

10 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I think the evidence was the signature on the ME's report authorizing Wes body to be moved.

Yes, in retrospect it sort of makes sense (although I would argue it wasn't Nate who found that signature) but it was just an odd summary.

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Oliver is shady.  SHA.  DY.  He lied so smooth.  I think he was lying to them when he was sweating.  That is how much a liar I think he is.  I loved seeing the look on Connor's face when that realization dawned about how simple it is for Oliver to lie.  And if Annalise hadn't spilled the beans to Connor about the Stanford letter Oliver would have gone on lying (by omission) to Connor about that.

I Oliver in anyone's pool to be Wes' murderer?  That'd be a twist for sure.

Oliver is definitely on my list! Not too high up, but he's definitely there.

At this point, I'd be shocked if it did end up being Nate, just because they are making him look guilty.

Did anyone else catch the comment Annalise made about peach cobbler?

[Keepitmoving]

Just now, secnarf said:

 

Did anyone else catch the comment Annalise made about peach cobbler?

No, what did she say? Who did she say it to?

LOL, is peach cobbler becoming a recurring character?

[Milaxx]

All I got was that she brought some to her father on the porch when she told him about her uncle molesting her.  I didn't pay it any mind other than it's comfort food.

[secnarf]

3 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

All I got was that she brought some to her father on the porch when she told him about her uncle molesting her.  I didn't pay it any mind other than it's comfort food.

It's the same stuff she made for Nate that time - that's why I made note of it. I thought it was a nice callback. I just couldn't remember the context of the comment exactly!

[starri]

Now I want peach cobbler.

[Milaxx]

I caught that, but like I said I thought of it as comfort food. The type of dish you would bring to a repast or potluck. In my family it's banana pudding or cherry cheesecake from scratch.

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Quote

What would be Olivers motive? 

I don't know, like I don't know what his motive was for sabotaging his boyfriend's chances to go to Stanford. If it was so he could keep that feeling of a rush from being part of the Keating-5...if that was his reason, then that's a disturbing reason to screw with your boyfriends future. I mean that's my speculation for why he did that, but did he ever give  reason to Connor for why he did it? I wasn't paying that close attention to their dialogue on the matter. But that was a crazy thing to do to someone you care about/love, that is no joke. So who knows what's going on in Oliver's head. By the way, what do we know about Oliver's background?

That was exactly his reason. When he quit his job (It;s the bar scene in one of the episodes near the end of season2) he tried to explain to Connor that he was re-evaluating his life since his diagnosis. It seemed to me Oliver felt like he was always doing what he was told to do/was supposed to do. From his POV Connor & the K5 were living this life of exciting courtroom drama. with the Hapstal case he got a tiny bit of that excitement. Little did he know the true danger side of it. Like any junkie he wanted that thrill and here's Connor trying to take it away. People wonder how crackheads sell their mama's furniture for a high? Look at Oliver. I'm not condoning the action. It was an awful thing to do, but I get why he did it.

[Blue Plastic]

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Until proven otherwise, I am now convinced that Laurel killed Wes. I think it was an accident and the fire was separate. So she accidentally killed him and before she could figure out what to do, the house exploded. I think her grief is over loving him yes but guilt for accidentally killing him and now lying about it. 

This is the only thing that makes sense to me, because otherwise she is grieving as if she had a deep, long-term relationship with Wes.  I would buy it if they had been together longer, but basically they got together two minutes before he died and now she is falling apart as if he was the love of her life and they were going to be together forever.  It's really annoying me at this point.  I know there is the baby and that makes things more emotional for her, but still it seems a little OTT.

So what, Wes had his own version of Eggs 911?  And whoever it was didn't save him, just like Rebecca's emergency contact didn't save her.  We saw Wes a lot so it's kind of hard to believe he had some mystery emergency helper that called him Christophe and we never saw whoever it was before.

Why are they ruining Oliver?  He used to be so innocent.  I really liked him when he first started.

[pennben]

Was Oliver ever really innocent though? As I recall, Connor only got with him because Oliver could hack into whatever it was that Connor needed to be hacked.  Hacking is a crime that can lead to things happening that you didn't expect, but a crime nonetheless.  I don't rewatch any episodes, but wasn't the first time that he hacked into something for Connor the time that the guy killed himself when Connor revealed something he learned from the hack?  Oliver didn't live in a vacuum back then, regardless of whether he knew about that or any further consequences of his actions, he should know that they were illegal and could lead to awful things outside his control.  He loves the danger, he doesn't love the consequences (or, who knows, maybe he doesn't care about the consequences). 

Edited February 11, 2017 by pennben

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, secnarf said:

Did anyone else catch the comment Annalise made about peach cobbler?

I considered that a shout out.

[Milaxx]

The first time he hacked was the premiere episode. The case was proving a secretary didn't give her boss she was having an affair with a fatal dose of aspirin. He got an email proving the guy's partner did it. Connor then slept with him and would ask for small hacks here and there. Of course the hacks got bigger and bigger, but no, Oliver was never innocent.  Finding out Connor slept with Pax is when he broke things off. 

4 minutes ago, doram said:

Did they ever explain why Simon put up those Killer posters around campus? Because the explanation - "that he was jellus" - doesn't hold up to scrutiny (like, let's face it, a lot of things on this show). The posters were up from the first day of class. What time did he have to get jellus about the K-5 getting special treatment? 

I keep asking are we really done with Simon? It seems a waste that that's all he was brought on for. Like Meggy, I don't trust him.

[pennben]

Your recall is astounding! I knew someone would remember the circumstances from S1.

As for Simon being involved in the Wes murder and/or fire that covers it up, I'll be disappointed in that while he was there for a bit, he was dropped for huge chunks of the season, so it doesn't seem fair to viewers playing along as we go. Although as I think about it, if he hated Annalise enough to put up the posters before the semester started, he must be white-hot infuriated with her just decimating him when she brought back his computer and shut him down.  Anyway, it just feels like more 'hiding the true criminal' than I'd like to see.

As for the peach cobbler, I'm showing my age here, but I with all the references to peach cobbler, I can't help but to imagine an Encyclopedia Brown story about this:  Encyclopedia Brown and The Case of the Amazing Peach Cobbler.

[Milaxx]

I'd call it more of an obsession than true recall. When I really like a show I will rewatch over and over. If I get bored I'll marathon the previous season.  Last time I mentioned Simon I brought up the fact that I thought he was going to be the guy either Oliver or Connor dated while they were broken up. Another poster speculated they may have shelved Simon for Thomas. At this point I have no idea what Nowalk & co are doing with the character.

 

BTW- I remember Encyclopedia Brown.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm not convinced anyone killed Wes, because I'm not convinced Wes is dead.  I started thinking this last episode, and I'm feeling it stronger now.  I don't think Wes is sticking it to anyone.  Wes saw he was being followed, panicked, and called into a contact and identified himself as Christophe.  Didn't Annalise only know Wes's true identity because of her knowledge of his mother?  Maybe he's been in protection since his mother's death, and it's related to his father's family.  They have to be involved in something, why introduce the character of his father's wife, and have her give Wes a knowing look?

As cliché as it sounds, people are still put in witness protection.  Maybe they were the ones who changed his name and assigned him with his new family.  Then a plan was enacted to fake his death after Wes triggered the panic button.  Since Nate both signed for Wes's "body" to be moved, and also met with him before the explosion, it would imply that Nate is involved.  Of course that's silly, because who would choose a disgraced former police officer to aid in the plan, but whatever.

So for me, the real question is - does the DA's office know?  Obviously the ME would know.  There does seem to be a fix on for Annalise, but are they framing her for a non-murder?  They seemed shocked about Nate moving the body, etc.  I think Annalise could have easily faked that screeching hysteria at seeing Wes under the sheet, but I don't think she would have continued this broken/grief act through her prison stay.  She really seems to think Wes is dead.

If Wes is alive, they deserve credit for keeping it a secret.  Game of Thrones did a terrible job of it, but book readers and anyone with a brain already knew that particular character was coming back.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 11:08 PM, Keepitmoving said:

Michaela, oh how I love that girl and amen to the head wrap. When she said "that bitch better...."  I died laughing. She and Asher might as well get married, he's farting (he's so gross just like a man) in his sleep and her head is wrapped, I love it, love it. Now this shit is real.

I've been really liking Michaela this second half.  I think it was the bad blood with Laurel, and her connection to the ever insufferable Connor that tainted her for me.  It took me awhile to get over Bonnie/Asher, but I'm rooting for Michaela/Asher.  They balance each other.  She helps ground him, and he encourages her to let loose and give up control for a while.

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 11:09 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Laurel losing her shit was pretty realistic. So was Oliver's panic attack. I was glad to hear him say he chose to get involved with AK & Co. 

Laurel's scene was the best the actress has done so far, IMO.  Oliver, however . . . .  I always find him lackluster as an actor, but this scene was almost laughable.  *Announces to the room*  Guys, I think I'm having a panic attack.  *squats as if preparing for a dump*  

That was beyond unrealistic.  Panic attacks aren't announced, and you damn well know you're having one.  And you don't perform one before a room of people.  That was neither panic, nor an attack. 

11 hours ago, Milaxx said:

 When did Bonnie buy a house? It took me a minute to figure out where they were meeting because when she was dating Asher she lived in an apartment. It's nitpicky, but these things jump out at me.

I love Bonnie's house.  It's so bright and cheery, as compared to all the suppressive darkness in Annalise's old Victorian (or whatever it was).  And I'm pretty sure Bonnie lived in an apartment in prior seasons.  Asher would show up at her apartment door, and he would be standing in the hall.  Unless I imagined that part - but I don't think I did.

Speaking of homes, where in the world were Annalise and her parents after her release?  They were eating dinner in what surely looked like a home, not a hotel.  I thought they must have been in Bonnie's house, because it was so bright and airy.  But clearly they weren't.

[pennben]

31 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Since Nate both signed for Wes's "body" to be moved, and also met with him before the explosion, it would imply that Nate is involved.  Of course that's silly, because who would choose a disgraced former police officer to aid in the plan, but whatever.

Are we supposed to think Nate is involved with moving the body after signing the body out for a move? I thought we, like Nate, were supposed to be stunned that his signature was the one authorizing the body's move.  Nate may make dumb moves in relation to staying with Annalise, but I don't think he is stupid, in the sense that he would authorize a move of the body and then forget about that when he decided to show the body to Laurel.

 

18 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

IMO.  Oliver, however . . . .  I always find him lackluster as an actor, but this scene was almost laughable.  *Announces to the room*  Guys, I think I'm having a panic attack.  *squats as if preparing for a dump*  

That was beyond unrealistic.  Panic attacks aren't announced, and you damn well know you're having one.  And you don't perform one before a room of people.  That was neither panic, nor an attack.

This bears repeating, because I'm still laughing!

[Milaxx]

9 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm not convinced anyone killed Wes, because I'm not convinced Wes is dead.  I started thinking this last episode, and I'm feeling it stronger now.  I don't think Wes is sticking it to anyone.  Wes saw he was being followed, panicked, and called into a contact and identified himself as Christophe.  Didn't Annalise only know Wes's true identity because of her knowledge of his mother?  Maybe he's been in protection since his mother's death, and it's related to his father's family.  They have to be involved in something, why introduce the character of his father's wife, and have her give Wes a knowing look?

As cliché as it sounds, people are still put in witness protection.  Maybe they were the ones who changed his name and assigned him with his new family.  Then a plan was enacted to fake his death after Wes triggered the panic button.  Since Nate both signed for Wes's "body" to be moved, and also met with him before the explosion, it would imply that Nate is involved.  Of course that's silly, because who would choose a disgraced former police officer to aid in the plan, but whatever.

So for me, the real question is - does the DA's office know?  Obviously the ME would know.  There does seem to be a fix on for Annalise, but are they framing her for a non-murder?  They seemed shocked about Nate moving the body, etc.  I think Annalise could have easily faked that screeching hysteria at seeing Wes under the sheet, but I don't think she would have continued this broken/grief act through her prison stay.  She really seems to think Wes is dead.

If Wes is alive, they deserve credit for keeping it a secret.  Game of Thrones did a terrible job of it, but book readers and anyone with a brain already knew that particular character was coming back.

I don't like the fake out that Wes is dead, but the cast made such a big deal telling the people how they all broke down around after filming when they found out Wes was under the sheet. Alfie went on chat shows talking about getting the phone call actors get when they are being fired from a show. I'm sure shows go to a lot of effort to hide spoilers, but if Wes is ony in Witsec and not dead, that's going to come off as pretty lowdown and manipulative. I also posted s picture up thread of the FBI officer young Wes spoke to after Rose killed her self. She's the only other person I know of who knows him as Christophe. 

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

.....

Laurel's scene was the best the actress has done so far, IMO.  Oliver, however . . . .  I always find him lackluster as an actor, but this scene was almost laughable.  *Announces to the room*  Guys, I think I'm having a panic attack.  *squats as if preparing for a dump*  

That was beyond unrealistic.  Panic attacks aren't announced, and you damn well know you're having one.  And you don't perform one before a room of people.  That was neither panic, nor an attack. 

....

I've had panics attacks where I did indeed announce, "I'm having a panic attack and then doubled over." I was doubled over because I couldn't breathe. It was the last thing I said as I started to hyperventilate.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[nutty1]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Speaking of homes, where in the world were Annalise and her parents after her release?  They were eating dinner in what surely looked like a home, not a hotel.  I thought they must have been in Bonnie's house, because it was so bright and airy.  But clearly they weren't.

Maybe the writers forgot they burned her house down??  ;) 

[Milaxx]

35 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

Maybe the writers forgot they burned her house down??  ;) 

I just assumed they were either at Bonnie's or a hotel. It didn't look like AK's house

[wanderingstar]

Quote

And as long as we have Wes in flashbacks, I should continue to point out every week that Alfred Enoch is so incredibly beautiful. It will be a sad day when he stops being a presence on this show.

Oh my sweet Lord - YES! I always thought he was cute, but he looks positively dishy in these flashbacks. 

Quote

I'm wondering if Nowalk is pulling a Jon Snow with Wes.

If he does, I'll be deeply annoyed. I love Wes, and I'm sad he was killed off. But if the show resurrects him after all this, it will be an act of supremely bad faith on the part of the writers.

Quote

Whatever the reveal is, I want Atwood and Benito Martinez's characters brought to their knees.  I want her to be guilty of something and his career to be in shambles based on his railroading of Annalise and obvious abuse of power. 

Yes - THIS! I need those two taken all the way down.

Quote

Yeah, but can we talk about Oliver's speckles of gray hair in the scene outside the memorial?  I think Conrad Ricamora is gorgeous, but that made him even hotter.

So glad I'm not the only one who thinks gray makes someone that much hotter.

Quote

So with that, where the fuck is Mrs. Trishelle Pratt? And back in Bayou is not the answer I'm looking for.

I'm really disappointed we're not getting more of Michaela's family background in 3B. I get that the mystery of who killed Wes is all-consuming, but they introduced Trishelle, and then just basically dropped that story. Maybe they'll pick it up in season 4.

Quote

The first time he hacked was the premiere episode. The case was proving a secretary didn't give her boss she was having an affair with a fatal dose of aspirin. He got an email proving the guy's partner did it. 

Technically, the partner didn't do it. The strong implication at the end of the pilot episode was that Gina (the secretary) had conspired with her boss' wife to poison the boss. The email found in Oliver's hack merely cast suspicion on the boss' partner, which put reasonable doubt on the prosecution's case against the secretary (I may have watched the pilot a few times :-)

[Milaxx]

That's right! They met in the bathroom or I should say Laurel saw them in the bathroom and it felt like they were conspiring together.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Laurel's scene was the best the actress has done so far, IMO.  Oliver, however . . . .  I always find him lackluster as an actor, but this scene was almost laughable.  *Announces to the room*  Guys, I think I'm having a panic attack.  *squats as if preparing for a dump*  

That was beyond unrealistic.  Panic attacks aren't announced, and you damn well know you're having one.  And you don't perform one before a room of people.  That was neither panic, nor an attack. 

Yeah, I didn't buy the panic attack moment either, not because it may not happen that way to people, but because Conrad just didn't act like someone who was having a panic attack. It didn't feel genuine to me. Maybe it's because we have seen Connor have a full out panic attack and that felt more realistic. Either way, I wish I felt more for Oliver, but I just don't. 

I'm now also on the boat of Laurel killing Wes. I think it's a predictable twist for hardcore fans, but one that would actually work really well. They seem to be leading toward this idea. I mean, putting aside the fact that I never got into Laurel/Wes, they were barely together before he died. They had some sexual tension leading up to their sex scene which was less than a month ago, their time. Sure, they've known each other for over two years at that point, but Laurel seems more than sad about his death, and she's the only one reacting to it. Annalise has been too, but we've seen a lot more history with them while Laurel/Wes was first brought up right at the end of season 2. 

As for who set the fire, it would be interesting if Frank was in the house and if he set the fire, all because he knew Laurel killed Wes and was trying to protect her and Annalise in his own way. Not saying that it's going to happen, but it really would be interesting for me. 

I also think there's a possibility of us seeing Simon interacting with Wes at Annalise's before his death. A small possibility, but one nonetheless. 

Alfie really is an attractive man for me, especially with that facial hair. That being said, I think they need to stick with Wes being dead because it would be a cop-out for him to be alive. They're getting me to realize that I'll miss him, but they need to stick to their guns here. 

Obviously Nate didn't move the body. He wouldn't incriminate himself like that. It would be a pretty dumb move. It would have to be someone in the DA's office, or someone posing as a DA, right? 

[darkestboy]

This episode advanced a few things. Who took Wes's body, who else knows him as Christophe and what happened with him and Nate at Annalise's house?

I knew Oliver would've kept Annalise's phone files but the scene where he was laughing in bed with Connor took me by surprise. What's going on there?

Don't blame Laurel for lashing out at the memorial. I have enjoyed her scenes with Michaela though.

Annalise getting herself beaten up to secure bail was smart. Bonnie's been dropping the ball in that regard.

That said, I am looking forward to the Bonnie and Frank scenes in next week's episode now things have gone the way they have.

Not really a lot of good stuff for Asher this week but the scenes with Annalise and her parents were great though, 8/10

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I don't like the fake out that Wes is dead, but the cast made such a big deal telling the people how they all broke down around after filming when they found out Wes was under the sheet. Alfie went on chat shows talking about getting the phone call actors get when they are being fired from a show. I'm sure shows go to a lot of effort to hide spoilers, but if Wes is ony in Witsec and not dead, that's going to come off as pretty lowdown and manipulative. I also posted s picture up thread of the FBI officer young Wes spoke to after Rose killed her self. She's the only other person I know of who knows him as Christophe.

It's very possible the cast didn't know it was a fake-out at the time. Heck, it's possible the writers didn't know at the time either. I could see them doing this and then spinning it as "we found a way to keep Alfred Enoch, isn't that great?" Or even have him secretly in Witsec and off the show, I could still see them doing it. The one thing keeping me from buying this is that we saw his body burned quite clearly. It was obviously Wes, and I don't think I'd be able to believe that that was faked.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

As for who set the fire, it would be interesting if Frank was in the house and if he set the fire, all because he knew Laurel killed Wes and was trying to protect her and Annalise in his own way. Not saying that it's going to happen, but it really would be interesting for me.

I agree!

[Milaxx]

Quote

Yeah, I didn't buy the panic attack moment either, not because it may not happen that way to people, but because Conrad just didn't act like someone who was having a panic attack. It didn't feel genuine to me. Maybe it's because we have seen Connor have a full out panic attack and that felt more realistic. Either way, I wish I felt more for Oliver, but I just don't. 

Different people react differently. Comparing Oilver's to Connor's is the same as Asher telling Micheala she doesn't "look" sad. I used to have panic attacks in my 20's. Mine probably looked more like Olivier's than Connor 's .  In addition to the external reactions you also get internal ones like rapid heart beat, shortness of breath. Ironically my worse one was accompanied by hyperventilation where I was able to croak out," I can't breathe." ( something else many think is impossible until it happens). 

As for Laurel killing Wes, that would not surprise me.

AK getting herself beat up to get out of prison reminds me of what she did to Nate after she framed him for Sam's murder. Only Nate ended up being put in solitary instead.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[jhlipton]

Just now, Neurochick said:

 I don't think Tyler Perry wrote this, but even if he did, his movies and shows make $$, so there is that.

Tyler Perry is a hack.  There's enough people who like hacks, so he's very successful, but he's a hack, nonetheless.

 

Just now, pennben said:

I can't help but to imagine an Encyclopedia Brown story about this:  Encyclopedia Brown and The Case of the Amazing Peach Cobbler.

"The 1st Battle of Manassas"  (there was a similar case with a coin stamped with "BC", as I recall.)

[starri]

13 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Tyler Perry is a hack.  There's enough people who like hacks, so he's very successful, but he's a hack, nonetheless.

On the other hand, he's also one of the few people who writes parts for women of color, especially for women of color over 35.

I don't think he's a particularly good filmmaker, nor do I agree with his moralizing, but I'm also not his target audience and I cannot hate on him for giving parts to women who are ordinarily extra-invisible in Hollywood.

[RedheadZombie]

21 minutes ago, starri said:

On the other hand, he's also one of the few people who writes parts for women of color, especially for women of color over 35.

I don't think he's a particularly good filmmaker, nor do I agree with his moralizing, but I'm also not his target audience and I cannot hate on him for giving parts to women who are ordinarily extra-invisible in Hollywood.

There seems to be pretty strong views about his work in the black community.  Some fall into the Spike Lee camp, and say his characters tend toward buffoonish stereotypes.   Whereas Tyler Perry says his characters are based on actual people he knew growing up.  And his supporters point out he's a prolific writer, and he keeps a large number of black actors in prominent, main character roles.  

[RedheadZombie]

I wouldn't be angry if Wes is alive.  I've always been interested in Christophe's story, and felt the Mahoney SL was left unfinished.  If Wes is in protection, I think it makes sense with Wes's story up to this point.  It makes the "who did it" even more fascinating for me. 

If Nate is involved, it would make sense that he check on the makeup job performed for "dead" Wes.  He and the ME could be in on it.   Nate would then be pissed about the changed cause of death, because it changes the pre-ordained cover story. 

I find it just as likely that Wes's death was faked, as another of the remaining K5 being involved in another murder.  They already over stepped, IMO, and while I'm hanging on at this point, I'm not sure I can continue to root for a group that's added another murder. 

Also, I think VD's best scenes are with Bonnie, Frank, and Wes, so I want to see her reaction if he's alive.  

[jhlipton]

Just now, starri said:

I cannot hate on him for giving parts to women who are ordinarily extra-invisible in Hollywood.

This is true.

Just now, RedheadZombie said:

There seems to be pretty strong views about his work in the black community.  Some fall into the Spike Lee camp, and say his characters tend toward buffoonish stereotypes.  

I wouldn't say they're all buffoonish (although there's a lot of that) but they certainly do fit into stereotypes.  For what it's worth, my (black) wife loves them.

[Dejana]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I wouldn't be angry if Wes is alive.  I've always been interested in Christophe's story, and felt the Mahoney SL was left unfinished.  If Wes is in protection, I think it makes sense with Wes's story up to this point.  It makes the "who did it" even more fascinating for me. 

If Nate is involved, it would make sense that he check on the makeup job performed for "dead" Wes.  He and the ME could be in on it.   Nate would then be pissed about the changed cause of death, because it changes the pre-ordained cover story. 

I find it just as likely that Wes's death was faked, as another of the remaining K5 being involved in another murder.  They already over stepped, IMO, and while I'm hanging on at this point, I'm not sure I can continue to root for a group that's added another murder. 

Also, I think VD's best scenes are with Bonnie, Frank, and Wes, so I want to see her reaction if he's alive.  

I can already picture Nowalk spinning the whole ruse as, "Well, I told you Wes died but I never said anything about Christophe..." 

[stonehaven]

This show has always had a soapy guilty pleasure aura for me but I am noticing this season...the emotional heft behind the plots...it seems intensely personal to all of them..Rebecca and other were outliers to most emotions..except Wes who harbored all the anger about her gong missing...but this season continues to bring it.

As others have said, Michela is awesome..I loved her "I will kill you if you're alive"....there were moments I was confused with police legalities....like how long would the DA request the full body? Usually they take plenty of pics..tons of bone and tissue samples and be done with it..Can you imagine not being able to properly bury your loved one..as they are only viewed as evidence?

Also, how long before Wes' apartment would be kept a crime scene..when it really isn't..as the "murder" happened at Annalise...and now with Annalise out...where is she staying now that she has no home?

I loved Connor's "I'll get the paper towels" comment after pouring the booze...and loved Oliver's ease in lying...and also telling off Simon at the funeral..

I do wonder if Laurel killed Wes but blocked it out...only three episodes left? Gonna be a long summer...

[Milaxx]

Wes didn't even remember he was Christophe until his memories were triggered by him shooting AK. I can buy young Wes being placed in WitSec to hide him away from the Mahoney's but I need to see how he contacted someone from that period of his life and what the connection is/was that made that person his emergency contact or person to help him disappear.

[truthaboutluv]

15 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Wes didn't even remember he was Christophe until his memories were triggered by him shooting AK.

I don't remember there being any suggestion that Wes didn't know or remember who he was until Annalise said his name. His shock was over Annalise calling him by his original name because until that point he had no indication that she knew who he was. In the first season, there was a scene of Wes talking about his mother's death to Rebecca. Also, when the show returned after the reveal of who shot Annalise, he specifically confronted her about the fact that she called him Christophe and wanted to know how she knew his name.

Edited February 11, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[secnarf]

15 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Wes didn't even remember he was Christophe until his memories were triggered by him shooting AK. I can buy young Wes being placed in WitSec to hide him away from the Mahoney's but I need to see how he contacted someone from that period of his life and what the connection is/was that made that person his emergency contact or person to help him disappear.

I disagree. They only showed Wes being shocked to hear AK call him Christophe. Maybe you interpreted it as him forgetting he was Christophe, but my interpretation was that he was just shocked that AK knew that name. He was 12 when his mother died, to me it seems very unlikely that he wouldn't remember.

[Milaxx]

Perhaps. I may need to rewatch. I do recall him saying they said changed his name when he went into fostercare. Maybe this should continue in the speculation thread since it's moving away from being episode specific.  I still think making Wes not dead would be a low blow by Nowalk, but it would be an interesting twist. Perhaps we can build a workable theory.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[weathered1]

As far as the Wes is not really dead theory goes, they already set a precedent for messing with the fans this season, i.e., the watch every week to see who's not under the sheet. They tried to back away from that/explain it away after the fact, but they definitely made the decision to trick viewers, imo. Would they do that again with the same story? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. 

In terms of the cast's reactions to the character's deaths, this was already covered, but I'd also think it was entirely possible that when those scripts went out, the cast was not privy to how the story would (possibly) end, so their reactions at the time were real. re: Wes's body being burned - if the death was faked, they would have to do a good enough job re: noticeable injuries to convince certain parties that he was most sincerely dead. Would Wes be okay with framing Annalise? I don't think so. I'd tend to think that his mindset would be that she has the necessary skills and intellect to get out of the charges. 

Just some thoughts. I'm not sure if they'd really go in this direction, but I wouldn't be surprised. 

Moving on: I think Karla Souza is doing some really great work in this story, and I'm glad that they're finally giving Aja Naomi King good material that's led to Michaela being so fierce and entertaining. Sidenote: I was not on the Asher/Michaela train. At all. Now, though, I actually kind of enjoy them together. 

As far as Oliver goes, I liked him initially, but the more focus that he's gotten, the less that's held true. 

And, finally, I've just totally run out of words to describe how mesmerizing Viola Davis is an actress. She's just on another level entirely, and the scenes with Cicely Tyson . . . I mean . . . all the superlatives apply. All of them.

[rubyred]

I don't know if this was a continuity error or a big ole red flag, but...when Laurel was melting down at Wes' memorial and mentioned his mother dying of suicide when he was 12, we didn't see Meggy's reaction to that. Because didn't he tell her and her dad that his mother died of cancer? (I always thought that one of the reasons why it was so easy for Wes to transfer his affection to Laurel was that she was someone he didn't have to lie to, so I bought their connection.)

I so look forward to seeing ADA Atwood getting ground under Annaliese's heel. While I'm sure the DA's office has a huge hate on for AK making them look like idiots for years, STILL they underestimate her by putting her in GenPop. It was obvious to me that as soon as AK started thinking again, instead of wallowing, she would find a way to get her ass out of there and it's the DA's fault for making that a possibility. I'm just hoping that we won't lose L Scott Caldwell, I want to know more about her -- what's her crime, man? And AK needs another ally other than Bonnie and Frank, even if it's just someone she can talk to and be real with, like she could with Eve.

I don't think Frank killed Wes, but I also don't think I'm clear as to why he killed Mahoney? What was the purpose of that? I mean yeah he was jealous about Laurel but he IMO was always jealous of AK's seeming preference for Wes -- what was killing Wes' birth father in aid of? Is it just that Frank is cray?

[starri]

6 minutes ago, rubyred said:

I'm just hoping that we won't lose L Scott Caldwell, I want to know more about her -- what's her crime, man?

If they wrap up the part of the story with Annalise being guilty before the end of the season, we had better see her as a client of the clinic.

[Milaxx]

57 minutes ago, rubyred said:

I don't know if this was a continuity error or a big ole red flag, but...when Laurel was melting down at Wes' memorial and mentioned his mother dying of suicide when he was 12, we didn't see Meggy's reaction to that. Because didn't he tell her and her dad that his mother died of cancer? (I always thought that one of the reasons why it was so easy for Wes to transfer his affection to Laurel was that she was someone he didn't have to lie to, so I bought their connection.)

I so look forward to seeing ADA Atwood getting ground under Annaliese's heel. While I'm sure the DA's office has a huge hate on for AK making them look like idiots for years, STILL they underestimate her by putting her in GenPop. It was obvious to me that as soon as AK started thinking again, instead of wallowing, she would find a way to get her ass out of there and it's the DA's fault for making that a possibility. I'm just hoping that we won't lose L Scott Caldwell, I want to know more about her -- what's her crime, man? And AK needs another ally other than Bonnie and Frank, even if it's just someone she can talk to and be real with, like she could with Eve.

I don't think Frank killed Wes, but I also don't think I'm clear as to why he killed Mahoney? What was the purpose of that? I mean yeah he was jealous about Laurel but he IMO was always jealous of AK's seeming preference for Wes -- what was killing Wes' birth father in aid of? Is it just that Frank is cray?

I don't think it matters because Meggy already assumed Wes dumped her for Laurel. At this point she could just chalk it up to another lie he told her.

I'm still wondering if L. Scott was a plant to get AK to talk while she was in prison. I hope she won't turn out to be another seemingly useless bit of casting along with Brett Butler and Esai Morales.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Milaxx

[secnarf]

Was Meggy even at the memorial? It seemed to be mostly law students.

[dgpolo]

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Was Meggy even at the memorial? It seemed to be mostly law students.

Definitely. They showed a great camera shot of her during Laurel's rant.

[Aquarius97]

16 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Was Meggy even at the memorial? It seemed to be mostly law students.

Yes, she was

[Milaxx]

49 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Was Meggy even at the memorial? It seemed to be mostly law students.

She was. We see her smile back at Laurel when she gets up to speak & they show her and Simon as the camera pans to the pews when Laurel starts lashing out and breaking down. After the service Oliver asked why they weren't talking to Meggy and Connor says it's because she's asking too many questions.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Milaxx

[possibilities]

Frank killed Mahoney to punish him for ordering the car accident that wound up killing Annalise's pregnancy. I don't know why he did it in front of Wes, though. That seemed crazy.

[Happytobehere]

1 hour ago, rubyred said:

I don't think Frank killed Wes, but I also don't think I'm clear as to why he killed Mahoney? What was the purpose of that? I mean yeah he was jealous about Laurel but he IMO was always jealous of AK's seeming preference for Wes -- what was killing Wes' birth father in aid of? Is it just that Frank is cray?

Laurel and Wes were not a thing when Frank killed Mahoney.  That was all about what happened with Annalise and most likely his jealousy over Wes' place in Annalise's life.