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S06.E03: Fates Worse Than Death

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So.. Tom did it? Maybe? I mean it's not surprising, but also even if this is still a guessing game.. I don't even really care? 

So Micheal is the most forgiving faux husband ever? 

And ww.. I'm sorry but if we're saying Tom is really the killer and he did it all for his love for Cyrus.. why?!?! I don't get it? Also what was tom hoping to get out of this? If Frankie was dead, Cyrus became president, he was probably still going to stay with Micheal.. was tom going to be happy being a side piece still? Wasn't he somewhat upset about that in the finale last year? I swear he said he would kill Micheal for Cyrus last finale and they could be together. Was he going to play that card again? 

I don't know why I'm putting thought into this. They will probably find a way to not make it tom by the end of next week. Just so we can circle back to our different usual suspects.

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This show is getting really stupid and boring.

Way too much Cyrus is this episode. He breathes so loud all the time too. It got really annoying. I guess I really don't care about this show when I'm commenting on someone's breathing lol but nothing is intriguing me.

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Can someone explain how a VP-elect can somehow evade round the clock Secret Service protection to meet someone in a dark park?

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

If Frankie was dead, Cyrus became president, he was probably still going to stay with Micheal.. was tom going to be happy being a side piece still?

Like Fitz, like Cyrus.

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5 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Can someone explain how a VP-elect can somehow evade round the clock Secret Service protection to meet someone in a dark park?

Like Fitz, like Cyrus.

Yup. Cyrus is a hypocrite. But I don't believe Tom would have settled for that. But once again.. why all this for Cyrus?!!! Forget who killed Frankie, this is the big mystery !

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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Liv's smugness at the end made me want someone to smack her. And of course after she's ruined Cyrus's life and put someone not elected to President in power she'll NOW question Cyrus's guilt. Oh please. She and Fitz can go away any time now. 

Loved Abby & Cyrus calling Fitz out on who really was calling the shots. 

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52 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup. Cyrus is a hypocrite. But I don't believe Tom would have settled for that. But once again.. why all this for Cyrus?!!! Forget who killed Frankie, this is the big mystery !

I think the biggest problem I had with this story is that Tom and Cyrus sort of just, "got together." I remember it coming out of nowhere and it never really made sense. It's not even the age difference, it's just that there wasn't a whole lot of them "building" to any kind of a relationship at all. It was more like, "BOOM!" This is a thing that we are doing!

So now we have crazy Tom giving Cyrus everything he wants. Cyrus isn't stupid. He knew Tom was out of his mind. So him even giving Tom the slightest idea that he wanted to be President knowing what Tom is capable of is damning. On the other hand, I'm happy the character is going down. I haven't liked him since he almost sent Quinn's boyfriend to kill James but called it off at the last minute.

Also I don't believe for a second that Tom would have stopped at making Cyrus, president. I wouldn't have put it past him to go against Cyrus' wishes and kill Michael as well.  It's like they wanted to do a fatal attraction thing here but they didn't really focus on the early part of the story nor did we know a lot about Tom at all. 

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1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup. Cyrus is a hypocrite. But I don't believe Tom would have settled for that. But once again.. why all this for Cyrus?!!! Forget who killed Frankie, this is the big mystery !

This x1000.  What kind of magic mojo is Cyrus working that he's constantly able to attract, keep, and inspire such devotion from good looking, intelligent, and younger men?

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3 hours ago, quirkygal said:

This x1000.  What kind of magic mojo is Cyrus working that he's constantly able to attract, keep, and inspire such devotion from good looking, intelligent, and younger men?

I was wondering this the entire time I was watching the episode. And that doesn't say much for the episode.

Too much Cyrus and too much Tom. The problem with that is I never bought Cyrus and Tom the way I was willing to suspend my disbelief for Cyrus and Michael. So to showcase their relationship this way made the ridiculousness of it really stand out for me. I wasn't even trying to figure out the convoluted plot because I was distracted by Tom's weird attraction and devotion to Cyrus. WTF?

I've always thought it was a mistake to give Tom a bigger role on the show. He's creepy and doesn't deliver the Scandal-dialogue well. Now he's obsessed with an older, out-of-shape man because....? Is the sex that good? Is he looking for a father-figure? Are we going to find out that all of Rowan's boys are psychopaths with daddy issues and just need love from the first person who shows them the kind of affection that doesn't include daily beatings? That doesn't bode well for the Jake and Olivia relationship either.

I still think Rowan is behind Frankie's assassination, but that also seems too obvious now.

ETA: If we find out Tom isn't the killer in a few episodes, what was the point of this episode?

Edited by slade3
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4 hours ago, quirkygal said:

This x1000.  What kind of magic mojo is Cyrus working that he's constantly able to attract, keep, and inspire such devotion from good looking, intelligent, and younger men?

THIS! What kind of whip appeal is Cyrus putting down? Micheal was hired as a gigolo and fell for him. Married him out of convenience and fell for him again? Enough that he got upset over Cy's affair with Tom last season and ran away with Ella. Now side piece Tom is going extra murder-y over Cy's magical peen? Is Cy Magic Mike?

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I almost forgot - I really liked the very brief VP debate scene. I liked seeing Jake thrown (and a little nervous?). It was a nice touch.

What I'm sure not to like is Olivia's inevitable verbal abuse toward Jake if we ever get to see a post-VP-debate flashback in the future. 

I hope the writers change things up and Olivia is actually gentle and supportive about Jake's bad performance, and able to inspire him to do better during the campaign. Now that would be a twist.

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6 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Can someone explain how a VP-elect can somehow evade round the clock Secret Service protection to meet someone in a dark park?

Like Fitz, like Cyrus.

Right? That bugged me.

6 hours ago, Artsda said:

Liv's smugness at the end made me want someone to smack her. And of course after she's ruined Cyrus's life and put someone not elected to President in power she'll NOW question Cyrus's guilt. Oh please. She and Fitz can go away any time now. 

Loved Abby & Cyrus calling Fitz out on who really was calling the shots. 

Luv is the worst. I can't stand her anymore.

Tom is just.... crazy. Remember the good old days when he was Fitz' buddy Secret Service agent? They've ruined the character like they've ruined the rest of the show.

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10 minutes ago, doram said:

For what it's worth, I like the running theme on Shonda shows that older people (Annalise, Richard Weber, and now Cyrus) still have game. 

I've always appreciated this about Shonda, but it gets to a point when it's distracting. I loved that James was into Cyrus, and I really loved that moment when Olivia realized Michael had real feelings for Cyrus. But Tom being this into Cyrus? I don't believe it.

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The problem with this entire story for me is that as much as Cyrus is a murdering bastard, he is a smart murdering bastard.  Amanda Tanner, almost James, the guy they set up to up Vargas' national profile, and on and on.  He never commits such an obvious crime and would not do so in a way that would link so directly back to him, knowing that eyes would be upon him.

Al this storyline is serving to remind me of is how vile and self-serving a character Olivia is.  She couldn't care less about Vargas or who killed him, just so long as she gets her way.  As noted upthread, once she has destroyed Cyrus, she'll decide he isn't the culprit and then set her up to be his savior; all the while ingnoring that she orchestrated Cyrus' downfall.

Fitz is just the absolute worst.  Just when I think I couldn't despise his character any more than I already did, he does something to make me hate him more.

What amazes me is that in this era of wondering how so many people drank the Trump kool-aid, Shonda's ability to make people drink the Mellie kool-aid is unbelievable. Mellie is not deserving of the presidency because she lost a child and decided that she wants it.  If Cyrus is out, the status quo should remain and a new election should be held, but ever since Shonda decided she was whitewashing Mellie's history to prop her up, everyone is supposed top fall in line with this pro-Mellie BS. I have not and will not forget Mellie was an active participant in the fake Fitz presidency; she knew about and co-signed on Fitz and Olivia because it served her sense of entitlement and desire to be in the White House, and just like Cyrus, Mellie's evil goes on and on and on; if people say he is not worthy, well neither is she. However, given the Shonda factor and her hard-on for the Mellie character (or perhaps the actress) wasn't the outcome of this storyline all but obvious from day one.

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Apparently I'm in the minority as a Cyrus fan. I loved the first half of the episode - after not getting anything from his perspective the previous two eps, it was nice to finally have that balanced out.

Before it all went to shit.

It's counter-intuitive to say this after an episode in which he made probably his dumbest moves so far in this show's run, but before this, he was a smart and strategic character, arguably the most so on the cast. I wanted to see that guy be president. Hell, maybe this could have turned into a show that focused on thought-provoking political issues, rather than an incessant drama factory. Particularly in that context, his monologue at the end was sad, and rubbed salt even deeper into that potential. Ditto his reaction upon being asked to be VP.

Still, if this ends with him getting drummed out of the cast, that's an extra hour freed up for me every week, who couldn't use that?

Also: unless I'm misremembering (which is certainly possible), Tom is the one who killed Fitz and Mellie's son, right? So her reaction being all 'I can has president now!!!' and no 'Wait, that guy is still running around shooting people???' doesn't do much for her character.

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Here I thought that Cyrus was crafty enough to get Vargas to make him the VP candidate last season. Nope. It was just Vargas making that decision on his own.

I did love that Vargas did not cheat with that girl. And Liv's gut is once again wrong.  I don't think her gut hasn't worked since the 1st season. 

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It didn't make me sorry for him because he did manipulate the whole damn thing. When he was offering up David Rosen as a running mate, he was deliberately scrapping the bottom of the barrel so Frankie would think he (Cyrus) was a good , if not  the only option. Frankie was kind of dim.  Cy wound up Tom, again deliberately, to beat that girl and told him that he wanted to be president, Then wound him up further by cruelly dumping him. Plausible deniability and all.  Cy is a political monster and has not forgotten for an instant who Tom really works for. That being Daddy Pope. Nothing winds up Liv better than getting her to think her Daddy played her. Again.  Cy will come out of this smelling like a rose with the sheen of righteous innocence. He really is a genius.

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So the Secret Service has had their hours reduced to part-time then? Because that is the only explanation for how Cyrus was able to move around like that. Bad enough that the press was able to camp literally outside his door, or that Lizzie was able to sneak up to the house like that, but the whopper was Cyrus meeting with Tom in the park. I get why Cyrus would not want the Secret Service at that meeting (he was going to kill Tom, which seriously, WTF?), but what he wants and what actually happens are not even in the same zip code. I know people would argue that Fitz got away from the Secret Service for clandestine meetings, with Liv, or Rowan or whoever, but point in fact he did not. The Secret Service may not have been privy to what went on in those meetings, but they were there (or nearby) and were aware of where the idiot man-child Fitz was, at all times.

Of course that is not even the biggest problem with Cyrus. Evidently, the Scandal Extended Universe's version of Karl Rove has really wanted to be FDR all along. Seriously, gimme a break (I sure deserve it).

And yeah, Liv and Mellie can feel free to go fuck themselves.

But Mellie especially, because this...

Quote

Shonda's ability to make people drink the Mellie kool-aid is unbelievable. Mellie is not deserving of the presidency because she lost a child and decided that she wants it.  If Cyrus is out, the status quo should remain and a new election should be held, but ever since Shonda decided she was whitewashing Mellie's history to prop her up, everyone is supposed top fall in line with this pro-Mellie BS. I have not and will not forget Mellie was an active participant in the fake Fitz presidency; she knew about and co-signed on Fitz and Olivia because it served her sense of entitlement and desire to be in the White House, and just like Cyrus, Mellie's evil goes on and on and on; if people say he is not worthy, well neither is she.

...is spot on.

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Do they make Telenovas in English  on Primetime in the US? Thats what it felt like I was watching.  So much drama! Cyrus is giving Papa Pope a run for title of Head Bloviator in Chief. It took them 9 months to come up with this dreck?

Edited by WhineandCheez
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Yeah.. I don't get Cyrus appeal that he was able to get these three men to fall so deeply in love with him. Like his husband.. I would have given a pass if then they didn't have Micheal being a hooker who they had to have marry him to save it from the press and make it a grand love affair that it wasn't and then Micheal actually did fall in love with him.. huh? And then Cyrus and Tom have started an affair and Tom loves him so much, he's now killing for him? I.. what? I'm sorry I can't compute this information. 

I'm not honestly surprised with how ridiculous this show has become. I think we veered off sense when you know Liv killed someone with a chair, but still.. 

I agree that this layer to the Tom character makes no sense. Tom essentially was a killing machine robot. Answering his orders to murder when needed. Having him hook up with Cyrus and develop feelings to the point where he's now murdering for love is a big wtf moment, but at this point this show seems to be a game of goldfish you play at a carnival but instead of fish, the bowls have sharks and above the bowls are crazy story ideas. 

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The only thing that would make this dreck interesting for me is if it turns out Olivia is behind the whole thing.  Complete the whole circle of her turning into her parents.

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5 hours ago, nilyank said:

Here I thought that Cyrus was crafty enough to get Vargas to make him the VP candidate last season. Nope. It was just Vargas making that decision on his own.

I did love that Vargas did not cheat with that girl. And Liv's gut is once again wrong.  I don't think her gut hasn't worked since the 1st season. 

We have never seen Liv's gut at work. She was wrong about Amanda Tanner, didn't get the obvious play when Cyrus had Charlie kill her, and these are just the most obvious two.  We keep hearing about Olivia's gut, but IMHO, we have never really seen the Olivia that created the legend of The Olivia Pope.  We have always and only seen a broken shell of a woman and a fixer.  She is often propped out by Huck, Harrison, Stephen, and even Cyrus

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4 hours ago, doram said:

@Emma9 I've never been a big Cyrus fan --- I didn't hate him and I admired his moments of awesome but I never went hard for him. But this episode was crafted to make my heart bleed for the guy and it worked. The "twist" of his VP ticket actually being genuinely offered - and not something he tricked or manipulated - was the kicker. 

Worth noting too is that Cyrus is also the only person besides the late President-Elect's wife that ever showed grief for Frankie Vargas' death. While everyone else was busy scrambling thinking about how to take advantage of what this means for their political career or the stability of the country, Cyrus is the only non-family person who mourned the death of the man himself.

And this grief was real even though he clearly knew Vargas was going to oust him, and potentially destroy his career and life.

PS -- Just thinking about Tom and his confession that implicated Cyrus.  Remember the last time Tom confessed to a murder, he was doing so because of Poppa Pope.  The same Poppa Pope who pointed Liv in Cyrus's direction in the first place.  The same Poppa Pope who pulls Jake's strings.  The same Jake who got punked by Cyrus in the debate, and remains unaccounted for during the Vargas and Jennifer killings (and I say this as someone who vastly prefers Jake to Fitz and think that if she is to be with one in the end, I want it to be him), I mean come on people.

I buy Liv and or Mellie being behind all of this before I will believe that Cyrus is the culprit.  Hell, I wouldn't put it past Fitz.

Edited by Happytobehere
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10 hours ago, Milaxx said:

THIS! What kind of whip appeal is Cyrus putting down? Micheal was hired as a gigolo and fell for him. Married him out of convenience and fell for him again? Enough that he got upset over Cy's affair with Tom last season and ran away with Ella. Now side piece Tom is going extra murder-y over Cy's magical peen? Is Cy Magic Mike?

Don't forget his first husband. I actually liked him, but he seemed too good for Cyrus as well.

8 hours ago, Emma9 said:

Also: unless I'm misremembering (which is certainly possible), Tom is the one who killed Fitz and Mellie's son, right? So her reaction being all 'I can has president now!!!' and no 'Wait, that guy is still running around shooting people???' doesn't do much for her character.

I was waiting for some kind of outburst like that. He is the one who killed their son. How did he get out of prison again? Wasn't he in prison?

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I thought Tom got out of prison at the same time as Rowan? Didn't they show up in the tunnel with Mellie to meet Olivia? It had something to do with Senate hearings, and then all of the Senators received compromising pictures (provided by Mellie, Rowan and Tom), so they dropped the hearing and Olivia didn't have to testify. Soon after, Jake's wife was killed by Rowan and he blamed Olivia. And then Olivia was arrested and Fitz visited her in the room that Jake had previously been kept in - he was devastated she helped her father and Tom escape, but didn't break up with her. It's all vague to me, even though I just recently rewatched it!

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1 hour ago, slade3 said:

I thought Tom got out of prison at the same time as Rowan? Didn't they show up in the tunnel with Mellie to meet Olivia? It had something to do with Senate hearings, and then all of the Senators received compromising pictures (provided by Mellie, Rowan and Tom), so they dropped the hearing and Olivia didn't have to testify. Soon after, Jake's wife was killed by Rowan and he blamed Olivia. And then Olivia was arrested and Fitz visited her in the room that Jake had previously been kept in - he was devastated she helped her father and Tom escape, but didn't break up with her. It's all vague to me, even though I just recently rewatched it!

All of Scandal tends to blur together for me as well. 

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3 hours ago, deaja said:

The only thing that would make this dreck interesting for me is if it turns out Olivia is behind the whole thing.  Complete the whole circle of her turning into her parents.

You know, as I was watching this garbage heap of a show last night, that's what I thought: the one and only thing that would be even the slightest bit surprising is if Olivia did this. She has not been a "white hat" or even a decent human being for a very long time now (if ever), so all that's left is for the show to drop the pretense that she's anything even remotely resembling a good person. 

It also struck me that I like the actors, but all of the characters are totally devoid of any good qualities. I never bought the whitewashing of Mellie, and her spiel last week about how she's fought so hard, sacrificed so much, and "deserves" the presidency just made me roll my eyes in disgusted disbelief. Abby has ceded the last of her humanity so that she can have some measure of power. Fitz is an easily led moron who hasn't made decisions with his actual brain in so long that I'm not sure it's even still functioning. Rosen is spineless. The less said about Huck, Quinn, Rowan, and Jake the better.

As for Cyrus . . .  I can buy that he's a mastermind of umpteen nefarious plots, but making him into some sort of middle aged personification of Spanish Fly to the point where young, eligible man lose their damn minds over him is just. . .  no. We've never, ever seen anything that would address why that is the case, so seeing it times two in one episode just made it all the more asinine. 

It also struck me that the last truly good character (other than Susan Ross) was Vargas - and I echo the sentiments expressed above that I loved it that he didn't turn out to be a cliche cheating bastard - so of course he had to die a horrible death. 

Making matters worse is that the show has committed a grievous sin - it's boring. When every week is a plodding story about which terrible person will do the next awful, irredeemable thing, that's a problem. This show used to be fun and entertaining. What the hell happened?

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Also, wouldn't Tom's confession be swept under the rug so that the country doesn't realize that the man who KILLED THE PRESIDENT'S SON was released to kill some more?

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18 hours ago, quirkygal said:

What kind of magic mojo is Cyrus working that he's constantly able to attract, keep, and inspire such devotion from good looking, intelligent, and younger men?

 

12 hours ago, doram said:

For what it's worth, I like the running theme on Shonda shows that older people (Annalise, Richard Weber, and now Cyrus) still have game. 

I agree with both points here. I am so over the Magical Genitalia trope (see: Olivia Pope, Noah Solloway, Carrie Mathison). In a TV drama I don't find it interesting to watch adults repeatedly drawn together like they're delivering pizza in a porn movie. I do like that the 45 y/o plus adults don't have to put their sexuality in a drawer, but all I could think during the Tom scenes is that Jeff Perry deserves so much better (script-wise)! I waited during the park bench scene (yeah, OK) for the gun to just go *click*, thinking no way would Cy think he could kill black ops Tom.  

I understand many years of GA has bought Shonda a lot of good will at ABC but frankly I'm finding everything unwatchable. I haven't been able to sit through Grey's much since season 10 and I dropped Scandal for a while after the kidnapping. I loved the fix of the week that the show started with and hate that they're going out of their way to keep the presidency in the forefront. Fitz and Olivia are awful and both have murdered with their own hands, and I feel like the producers are committing character assassination on everyone else (keeping Abby and Mellie set to shrill for example) in order to make the star couple look good by comparison.

Slightly off-topic: Kim questioned the whereabouts of the director, Scott Foley. Apparently if you check his Instagram you can see he's been putting peanut butter on his scrambled eggs. From what I understand the internet has responded with the proper amount of outrage.        

Edited by chick binewski · Reason: making sense is a good thing
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11 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

What amazes me is that in this era of wondering how so many people drank the Trump kool-aid, Shonda's ability to make people drink the Mellie kool-aid is unbelievable. Mellie is not deserving of the presidency because she lost a child and decided that she wants it.  If Cyrus is out, the status quo should remain and a new election should be held, but ever since Shonda decided she was whitewashing Mellie's history to prop her up, everyone is supposed top fall in line with this pro-Mellie BS. I have not and will not forget Mellie was an active participant in the fake Fitz presidency; she knew about and co-signed on Fitz and Olivia because it served her sense of entitlement and desire to be in the White House, and just like Cyrus, Mellie's evil goes on and on and on; if people say he is not worthy, well neither is she. However, given the Shonda factor and her hard-on for the Mellie character (or perhaps the actress) wasn't the outcome of this storyline all but obvious from day one.

THIS!!!!!!!!! Let's not forget the Olivia/Mellie new BFF status ... which is utterly bullshit 

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Of all the clowns in this week's car, the one somewhat lustrous moment, in my opinion, belonged to the usually fingernails-on-the-chalkboard personality of Abby, when she went into the Oval Office to confront Fitz.  She laid into him and he responded with "Watch yourself, Abby", to which she responded with "You're being played, Mr. President."  Properly underpinned with a tone of "Go ahead and fire me. You don't have enough Ajax to clean your collar, dicknose."  (Sorry, Carrie Underwood)

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3 hours ago, slade3 said:

I thought Tom got out of prison at the same time as Rowan? Didn't they show up in the tunnel with Mellie to meet Olivia? It had something to do with Senate hearings, and then all of the Senators received compromising pictures (provided by Mellie, Rowan and Tom), so they dropped the hearing and Olivia didn't have to testify. Soon after, Jake's wife was killed by Rowan and he blamed Olivia. And then Olivia was arrested and Fitz visited her in the room that Jake had previously been kept in - he was devastated she helped her father and Tom escape, but didn't break up with her. It's all vague to me, even though I just recently rewatched it!

Wow, I didn't even remember that half those things happened until I saw your post. The show really does blend together.

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I guess I'm in the minority of really enjoying this episodes. I have to give it to Shonda, she made me feel bad for Cyrus. I loved his speech about what he wanted to do in his first 100 days. The use of Wade in the Water during that scene gave me chills. I like the twist that Cyrus truly did love and care for Frankie, and was devestated by his death.

I really enjoyed the trio of Huck, Quinn, and Charlie tonight (then again, I've actually always like all 3 characters). Huck's line about how annoying workplace affairs made me chuckle. 

Oh, I really want Liz Norths wardrobe. I need those palazzo pants in my life! 

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I had forgotten Liz North existed til this episode.

I did feel bad for Cyrus at points but the episode went far too long. I remember season 2 when he was telling James all the reasons he would never be president only to be so close- but to be close for a different party than the one he worked for his whole life is just too weird.

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9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Wow, I didn't even remember that half those things happened until I saw your post. The show really does blend together.

I barely remember them and I just rewatched. I find that even though I'm rewatching the episodes in order, I still can't remember which seasons certain things happen. For example, the times Jake was beaten or nearly killed. It took 2 rewatches for me to retain that the first time Jake recuperates in Olivia's bedroom is because he was beaten repeatedly by Rowan's men and kept in a hole. I still can't remember if that happened in season 2 or 3, and I vaguely remember it happened because Jake killed a B613 agent sent to kill Olivia. Olivia agreed to Sunday night dinners with her father, so he released Jake to her care. Later, Jake is beaten to a pulp by Fitz after being accused of killing Fitz's son. This has to be season 4 because Fitz's refusal to believe Jake is innocent stems from Jake being on the island with Olivia. Jake thinks he's going to be executed but Olivia saves him. And then Jake is stabbed nearly to death by a B613 agent. This time he recuperates in Olivia's guest bedroom as Huck tortures the agent in the next apartment, but I just can't remember why the agent was sent to kill him and I already don't know if that was season 4 or 5, even though I just watched it last week. I'm sorry for the OT.

9 hours ago, LeeLeePanda said:

I guess I'm in the minority of really enjoying this episodes. I have to give it to Shonda, she made me feel bad for Cyrus. I loved his speech about what he wanted to do in his first 100 days. The use of Wade in the Water during that scene gave me chills. I like the twist that Cyrus truly did love and care for Frankie, and was devestated by his death.

I really enjoyed the trio of Huck, Quinn, and Charlie tonight (then again, I've actually always like all 3 characters). Huck's line about how annoying workplace affairs made me chuckle. 

Oh, I really want Liz Norths wardrobe. I need those palazzo pants in my life! 

I'm really glad people are still enjoying the show. I feel genuinely disappointed that I'm so frustrated with it. I was reading comments on another site after their review and I was surprised that all of the early comments were very positive. I haven't been back to see if later comments were negative, but most people seemed pleased by the episode and felt this new season was better than the last. I want to like Olivia and I hope the show does something to make me willingly forget the things I've started hating about her.

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I would've been impressed if Shonda had actually let Tom kill Cyrus.

Alas, Cyrus finally flew too close to the sun. Still though, he's got so much dirt on Fitz, Mellie, Olivia, and David that I don't see this mess even making it through jury selection.

Quote

Also, wouldn't Tom's confession be swept under the rug so that the country doesn't realize that the man who KILLED THE PRESIDENT'S SON was released to kill some more?

This. Probably both Cyrus and Tom will be freed before the season's over. Heck, Cyrus will probably have a high-profile job in Mellie's administration.

Quote

Is Olivia a practicing attorney?  If so, maybe she will be his defender in court.  Ha.

Hey, if it works for Annalise...

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I'm assuming Jake is still Mellie"s VP.

Papa Pope's "son" is a heartbeat away from the presidency.

so yeah,I still think Pop's behind it.

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I'll admit that they got me to feel a little bad for Cyrus. The end with Michael taking his daughter away so she wouldn't see him get arrested got to me. But then I remembered how horrible every person in this show is, and I got over it.

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What kind of magic mojo is Cyrus working that he's constantly able to attract, keep, and inspire such devotion from good looking, intelligent, and younger men?

As Henry Kissinger (who was getting plenty of action despite "only" being Secretary of State) famously said, power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

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On 2/11/2017 at 3:33 PM, Oblique Angle said:

Alas, Cyrus finally flew too close to the sun. Still though, he's got so much dirt on Fitz, Mellie, Olivia, and David that I don't see this mess even making it through jury selection.

This is what I don't get... Cyrus knows so much about the others, he has been involved in so much with them (namely Mellie and Olivia) so why do they think that he will quietly go to prison while they take over the White House? 

All Cyrus has to do is mention Defiance, or Sally's murder cover-up, or the dead jurors, or even the fact that Tom was only free to kill Vargas because Mellie and Liv got him released from prison so that Liv wouldn't have to testify during the impeachment hearings... There is no way that he will go down without taking them down with him.

Edited by PrincessTT
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On 2/10/2017 at 5:43 AM, doram said:

For what it's worth, I like the running theme on Shonda shows that older people (Annalise, Richard Weber, and now Cyrus) still have game. 

I think it's a sign of my getting older that my first reaction on reading this was, "Annalise? Older? Really? Is that what we're saying? Naaahhhh..."

But, yeah. I guess she is. It's just that I am, too!

ETA - I also still don't understand why Tom (or whoever) didn't just wait until after the inauguration to off Vargas, if the point was making Cyrus president.

Edited by auntiemel

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There is no way that he will go down without taking them down with him.

Whether Cyrus goes to prison or not doesn't feel like that dramatic a question considering that for him, the worst has already happened. Not only has he lost the presidency, he's doubtless guilty in the public eye, and will probably remain so even if he's exonerated. He used to be afraid no one would ever recognize or remember his name...now they certainly will, but for all the wrong reasons.

I don't know if he'll bother dragging Fitz & Co through the mud to try and get out of jail. If they'd gone the route of having him be guilty, this would make sense as his next step, but the narrative doesn't seem to be going in that direction. (If he thought there was a way he could retain the presidency, that's another story, but see above re: indelible public opinion.)

On the other hand, Cyrus being found guilty would in itself be pretty damning for everybody else - even, posthumously, Vargas, but certainly Fitz, who held him as his most trusted advisor for nearly eight years and endorsed him as president just days ago - by association alone.

 

I also still don't understand why Tom (or whoever) didn't just wait until after the inauguration to off Vargas, if the point was making Cyrus president.

The flashback structure makes it hard to be sure, but my impression was that by the time of the election, Tom and Cyrus had already had their fight, thus Tom's motive wasn't making him president at all, but kicking off exactly the controversy and eventual disgrace that did ensue.

(Which is convoluted enough that I won't be remotely surprised if Papa Pope was in on it too, but then again, who's ever surprised if he's behind anything anymore?)

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4 hours ago, Emma9 said:

I don't know if he'll bother dragging Fitz & Co through the mud to try and get out of jail. If they'd gone the route of having him be guilty, this would make sense as his next step, but the narrative doesn't seem to be going in that direction. (If he thought there was a way he could retain the presidency, that's another story, but see above re: indelible public opinion.)

I agree with you about the worst having already happened to Cyrus, and I don't necessarily think he would drag them through the mud in order to get out of jail... But given that he's lost the presidency, I can't see him allowing Mellie (his partner in so many crimes) to get her hands on it. 

And even if Cyrus doesn't talk now that he's been arrested, I don't buy Liv / Mellie / Fitz being confident enough of that to even bother going after him to begin with. Would they really risk it in the first place.

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:45 AM, Emma9 said:

Apparently I'm in the minority as a Cyrus fan. I loved the first half of the episode - after not getting anything from his perspective the previous two eps, it was nice to finally have that balanced out.

I mean . . . I don't love Cyrus, but I like him more than a good number of the other characters on the show.  Certainly more than Fitz, Mellie, Olivia, Rowan, Jake, and Elizabeth.  Less, though, than Quinn, Huck, David, Abby, and Marcus.

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:50 AM, doram said:

@Emma9 I've never been a big Cyrus fan --- I didn't hate him and I admired his moments of awesome but I never went hard for him. But this episode was crafted to make my heart bleed for the guy and it worked. The "twist" of his VP ticket actually being genuinely offered - and not something he tricked or manipulated - was the kicker. 

Worth noting too is that Cyrus is also the only person besides the late President-Elect's wife that ever showed grief for Frankie Vargas' death. While everyone else was busy scrambling thinking about how to take advantage of what this means for their political career or the stability of the country, Cyrus is the only non-family person who mourned the death of the man himself.

 

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:09 PM, LeeLeePanda said:

I guess I'm in the minority of really enjoying this episodes. I have to give it to Shonda, she made me feel bad for Cyrus. I loved his speech about what he wanted to do in his first 100 days. The use of Wade in the Water during that scene gave me chills. I like the twist that Cyrus truly did love and care for Frankie, and was devestated by his death.

 

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 5:59 AM, deaja said:

I did feel bad for Cyrus at points but the episode went far too long.

Agreed with all of you.  To an extent, I did feel sorry for Cyrus.  He was genuinely touched to be asked to be put on the ticket, and to find out that Vargas actually, genuinely believed in him and thought he was a good person (even though we all know otherwise), and that part of him really did want to change as a result of that.

The problem is, I then remember all of the bad things he has done up to now, and it turns into a case of his chickens coming home to roost, AFAIC.

I don't know.  The characters have wildly changed, but I still enjoy the show for what it is, for the most part.  It's frustrating to see how many people don't try to do the same -- simply try and just enjoy it for what it is.

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