S05.E06: Erica's Story

[Ocean Chick]

25 minutes ago, TheVoicesToldMeTo said:

How horrifying!  How is your sister coping?

This may be a different scenario than what happened to Erica.  Your sister's trauma sounds like a person unknown/untrusted in the family, maybe a pedo in the neighborhood - someone  that your sister wouldn't normally associate with tried to assault her.  With Erica, she was 16, perfectly normal dating age, it was her boyfriend who lured her into the gang rape.  It would have been a challenge for the court system at that time to procure probable cause to arrest these boys unless there was traumatic injuries, or a witness heard her screaming, etc.   It's easier to show probable cause for an arrest when you have something like a 50 year old predator trying to lure middle/elementary schooler (who is too young to be sexually active) into a home/basement that kid wouldn't normally be in.

Absolutely - you said it better than I did.  Boyfriend/girlfriend - he said/she said.  Verses stranger luring young girls into basements.  People have always regarded sex by strangers with kids as rape.  Teenaged boy/girlfriend sex?  Not so much, even if she says "no".  The defense lawyers would have painted her as someone so desperate for attention/love/sex that she'd have sex with the entire football team at the same time, given the chance. 

[7788BeaconHighway]

I can't get this show out of my head, and I think it's because of the severity of Erica's addiction. She said she gained 200 lbs. after her mother died 2 1/2 years ago. That's almost 2 lbs. a week. I imagine that means near-constant eating. That's the equivalent of the guy (or gal) who goes into a bar every night, stays until last call, then collapses insensate outside the bar afterwards. Only to do the same thing again every night for two years. If we saw that drunken behavior, we would assume the person was running away from some incredible pain.

Other people featured on the show have said they were addicts. But they had a different attitude. They acknowledged it, recognized it would be there, and they had to fight it. In contrast, it's almost as though Erica identifies with her addiction. I don't get a sense her addiction is "other," some unwanted guest in her life. (The weight yes, not the identity of an addict.) Which goes back to her childhood. Wildly guessing here, she's showing her father she can eat whatever the hell she wants and he can't stop her.  If it weren't food it would be another addictive substance.

She reminded me of someone I knew a while ago who decided to be an alcoholic because it was glamorous, and was one by the age of 16, and continued to be one until her death. I don't think she ever considered stopping drinking. It was part of her identity.

With Erica, that kind of dysfunction goes way way back. Without speculating about her childhood dynamics - which I would hate to read about if I were her - I will say that some of the people on the show have said they are hungry all the time and don't have an appetite regulator. Possibly she had that problem,  which set off a cascade of other problems.

I have to wonder if in a severe case of addiction like this, not only therapy but AA might be helpful, just to start thinking differently.

[Maizie131]

6 hours ago, Kellyee said:

And what is up with the repeated naked body shots????? Does the show force people to do this in order to be on the show? And who would agreed to sit there naked washing themselves while a camera was rolling?

Kellyee - I'm sure I've never seen any women's breasts, nor a man's penis on this program -- they're "blurred."  In my opinion, I think that showing how difficult it is for these people to do even the most mundane of tasks, i.e., taking a shower, is heart-wrenching, which is why they show it.  As for what participant would agree to that?  I'm certain they're told ahead of time that "private parts" will not be shown, and, to be honest, I don't think any one of us knows the amount of money these people are paid for putting their lives on display for the world to see.  I'm guessing it's a tidy amount, but I've really no idea. 

[CouchTater]

58 minutes ago, 7788BeaconHighway said:

I can't get this show out of my head, and I think it's because of the severity of Erica's addiction. She said she gained 200 lbs. after her mother died 2 1/2 years ago. That's almost 2 lbs. a week. I imagine that means near-constant eating. That's the equivalent of the guy (or gal) who goes into a bar every night, stays until last call, then collapses insensate outside the bar afterwards. Only to do the same thing again every night for two years. If we saw that drunken behavior, we would assume the person was running away from some incredible pain.

BeaconHighway, your comments finally allowed me to feel a little bit of empathy for Erica. My brother died 3 months ago, and for 5 days (the days I was off work for bereavement) I was alone most of the time and ate practically nonstop. I couldn't believe or understand it, even as I was in the throes of it. Unlike Erica, I was able to return to normal pretty quickly. I may have gained 2-3 pounds. 

I think about Erica and realize that I may be just 1 bad experince, or 1 rotten parent away from being Erica. Who knows?

Somwthing to think about though: sometimes we are successful/happy/healthy/etc due to circumstances beyond our control, like our families, good genetics, loving household, etc.  Erica, like so many of the folks featured on this show, seem to have gotten the short stick in many areas. 

[Tabbygirl521]

2 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

Absolutely - you said it better than I did.  Boyfriend/girlfriend - he said/she said.  Verses stranger luring young girls into basements.  People have always regarded sex by strangers with kids as rape.  Teenaged boy/girlfriend sex?  Not so much, even if she says "no".  The defense lawyers would have painted her as someone so desperate for attention/love/sex that she'd have sex with the entire football team at the same time, given the chance. 

Right, but my point was meant to be about the parents' response. Even if they decided not to report or seek prosecution, which I can understand, Erica's parents seem to have failed utterly at helping her after the fact in any way. Trying to run someone over with a car may be above and beyond the call ? But seeking counseling and not calling your kid names might be nice. 

[Hockeymom]

1 hour ago, Ocean Chick said:

People have always regarded sex by strangers with kids as rape.  Teenaged boy/girlfriend sex?  Not so much, even if she says "no".  The defense lawyers would have painted her as someone so desperate for attention/love/sex that she'd have sex with the entire football team at the same time, given the chance. 

I can see that this may have been a concern. But I am still fixated on the fact that nothing was done to help her. Maybe keep the police out of it if the details are ambiguous, but get the girl some help. She was violated, betrayed, humiliated. No adult had her back at all. I'm sure her siblings heard rumors. Everyone at school had to know. Her dad said she was an embarrassment before this happened. I can't imagine him handling this well. And I don't believe for a minute that he didn't know. This incident is a reflection of how her parents handled problems.

I was typing while Tabbygirl was posting!

[TurtlePower]

57 minutes ago, Hockeymom said:

I can see that this may have been a concern. But I am still fixated on the fact that nothing was done to help her. Maybe keep the police out of it if the details are ambiguous, but get the girl some help. She was violated, betrayed, humiliated. No adult had her back at all. I'm sure her siblings heard rumors. Everyone at school had to know. Her dad said she was an embarrassment before this happened. I can't imagine him handling this well. And I don't believe for a minute that he didn't know. This incident is a reflection of how her parents handled problems.

I was typing while Tabbygirl was posting!

This kind of thing also happened before "therapy" was known to everyone. Similar thing happened to me, so I went to a school counselor (and this was in the 90s). She couldn't have been more of an awful bitch (long story, blamed me, blah blah blah). I coped by taking marital arts and boxing.  Next guy who touched me got his arm broken. 

Anyway, now therapy seems to be way more accepted. Willing to bet Erica's parents were of the culture that hid that kind of thing. 

[notyrmomma]

Well, I feel sorry for you 80s/90s teens who had parents who wouldn't go to the mats for you.  I guess my parents were ahead of their times back in those dark ages.

[Hockeymom]

Oh for crying out loud! It was the 80s/90s not the 1800s! Therapy was very much a thing! It was the era of Valium and Quaaludes. Remember Dr. Feelgood? Everyone was in therapy! People were bitching about their mothers and looking for Dr. Fix It to prescribe a magic pill.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, when I was about 11, I was molested. This would have been mid-seventies. There were resources everywhere! Ten minutes on the phone, and my mother had a team. I don't think we had money for an attorney, but we had legal council. We had someone form WAR (Women Against Rape) in the courtroom with us every day. I had a child advocate making sure the attorneys played nice during cross examination. I had a therapist. I had whatever I needed.

 Runnergirl, what happened to you is criminal. Your school counselor was obviously in the wrong line of work.

But I don't think Erica's parents get a pass.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Hockeymom

[TurtlePower]

2 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

Oh for crying out loud! It was the 80s/90s not the 1800s! Therapy was very much a thing! It was the era of Valium and Quaaludes. Remember Dr. Feelgood? Everyone was in therapy! People were bitching about their mothers and looking for Dr. Fix It to prescribe a magic pill.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, when I was about 11, I was molested. This would have been mid-seventies. There were resources everywhere! Ten minutes on the phone, and my mother had a team. I don't think we had money for an attorney, but we had legal council. We had someone form WAR (Women Against Rape) in the courtroom with us every day. I had a child advocate making sure the attorneys played nice during cross examination. I had a therapist. I had whatever I needed.

 Runnergirl, what happened to you is criminal. Your school counselor was obviously in the wrong line of work.

But I don't think Erica's parents get a pass.

She was awful--actually they all were at my school--but some good came out of it. I learned to brawl. And my brawler's attitude saved me a few other times from violence despite me being a lightweight. The only "therapy" I remember at a young age was for anorexia, and even then it was still fairly "new". And they sucked, too. None of them could relate. 

I definitely don't agree with what Erica's parents did. At least be old school and give the guys a beat down.

[Azubah]

3 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

Remember Dr. Feelgood?

That was the late '50s, early '60s, actually. I have to smile sometimes when I'm on these forums and people earnestly insist that "20 years ago they didn't know about heroin addiction!!" (or therapy, or rape, or whatever.) 20 years ago was 1997, and yeah, we did. And also 1977. But it's also true that we haven't made as much progress as we should have, and people STILL blame rape victims. It's a long battle and it hasn't yet been won.

[Hockeymom]

Ha! I got my decades crossed. After the 80s its all a blur anyway!

[maya1959]

On 11/02/2017 at 1:26 AM, ClareWalks said:

I don't think she packed adult diapers, and here's why: there is no way an adult diaper company produces diapers in that size. Or that they'd then come in such a small package, unless that holds only one diaper.

I think the blue package contained baby wipes as Erica said she didn't know if she could fit in a hotel shower. As a nurse I have only seen incontinence aids in xl which struggle to fit 120kg (250lb or so) person.

[cynicat]

I can't add much more to this conversation other than to voice my agreement with all of you who were conflicted.  After a while I didn't care anymore about Erica however I was totally fascinated by the sibling dynamic.  There is clearly a ton of history there.  Yes I felt bad for Erica but I reached a point where I wanted to say "shit or get off the pot" .  Decide one way or another about the weight loss and go for it--or give up.  Watching nearly 2 hours of Erica whining and and only about 5 minutes post-surgery was torture.

[hisbunkie]

17 hours ago, Azubah said:

That was the late '50s, early '60s, actually. I have to smile sometimes when I'm on these forums and people earnestly insist that "20 years ago they didn't know about heroin addiction!!" (or therapy, or rape, or whatever.) 20 years ago was 1997, and yeah, we did. And also 1977. But it's also true that we haven't made as much progress as we should have, and people STILL blame rape victims. It's a long battle and it hasn't yet been won.

Thank you Azubah, retired mental health professional here who began practicing in early 80's .  Some like to refer to those times as ' When Sex Abuse Was Discovered' -that was almost 40 years ago.  Many families then and now decline services for their children because they want to just forget it. Parents will fight in Court to make the decision to NOT provide mental health services for their children who have been sexually victimized- interestingly the same parents who were victims themselves. It can be a tough legal fight to win. 

And Runnergirl,what your school counselor did was unprofessional and illegal, there are laws in place that make her/him a mandated reporter. She needed to have made a report to the police and gotten you services. The 90's were not that long ago, sweetie, I was very much in the field.  I hope you are doing well.

Edited February 12, 2017 by hisbunkie
And another point

[notyrmomma]

One last thing on the criminalization of rape - remember, the 80s and 90s were also they heyday for "repressed memory" therapy.  People, including family members, were going to jail for sexual abuse that a person "repressed" and sometimes didn't even really happen.

[hisbunkie]

1 hour ago, notyrmomma said:

One last thing on the criminalization of rape - remember, the 80s and 90s were also they heyday for "repressed memory" therapy.  People, including family members, were going to jail for sexual abuse that a person "repressed" and sometimes didn't even really happen.

Very true. However, know that a very small number of cases ever went (or presently go) to prosecution. Prosecutors will only take cases to trial that that have a better than blood case to win.  Incest and child sex abuse cases are notoriously under prosecuted.  BTW it's the county or state that brings the charges not the victim in most cases.  

[Maggienolia]

Watching this again (I know, masochistic of me) and I'm just wondering if there are hoarding issues there too. When you see shots of her apartment there appears to be crap stacked up and filling the living room (maybe why she could only be in the kitchen or the bedroom?). 

Like most here have already expressed: I feel sorry for her but also totally understand that her siblings are over her whining, complaining, do-nothing-but-eat attitude. I wonder if she's actually manage to lose the weight. I don't think she will. 

[notyrmomma]

1 minute ago, Maggienolia said:

Watching this again (I know, masochistic of me) and I'm just wondering if there are hoarding issues there too. When you see shots of her apartment there appears to be crap stacked up and filling the living room (maybe why she could only be in the kitchen or the bedroom?). 

Like most here have already expressed: I feel sorry for her but also totally understand that her siblings are over her whining, complaining, do-nothing-but-eat attitude. I wonder if she's actually manage to lose the weight. I don't think she will. 

Do you watch any of the hoarder shows?  Most of them are obese.  They should do a crossover show.

[Armchair Critic]

On 2/10/2017 at 3:48 PM, Miss Ruth said:

I just have to wonder, however, why the person who did her pedicures didn’t take the time to put lotion on at least her big leg?

I was thinking maybe because she had infection on her legs? If she had something like staph infection lotion may not be good for it?

[flappa1016]

13 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I was thinking maybe because she had infection on her legs? If she had something like staph infection lotion may not be good for it?

I'm hoping it was her niece that painted her toes. The last thing a salon owner would want is someone with ANY kind of infection using their equipment and tools. I'm gagging just thinking that I may be the next customer in line for a pedicure after that leg was lifted from the tub. 

[Aw my lahgs]

7 hours ago, flappa1016 said:

I'm hoping it was her niece that painted her toes. The last thing a salon owner would want is someone with ANY kind of infection using their equipment and tools. I'm gagging just thinking that I may be the next customer in line for a pedicure after that leg was lifted from the tub. 

If you go to a quality salon, they'll use a plastic bag in the water and sterilize their tools so in theory it doesn't matter. But her feet were really gross.

I've noticed a lot of the 600 pounder ladies always have their nails on point (hi, Marla!). Their life is falling apart, they're at the brink of death, they're broke but their nails are done.

[Azubah]

21 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

If she had something like staph infection lotion may not be good for it?

Dr. Now said it was cellulitis, which isn't contagious.

[Brooklynista]

1 hour ago, Azubah said:

Dr. Now said it was cellulitis, which isn't contagious.

Yeahhhh but you don't know that when you're the next in line for that nail  chair to open up.

[gonecrackers]

I couldn't see Erica going to a nail salon. Besides most likely not fitting in the chair, she didn't go anywhere, & even sent her niece for food. When she spoke of having a PCA in TX, she mentioned not being comfortable meeting new people, so it seems like she might have had social anxiety.

[Elizabeth9]

Ok, I might have to stop watching, because this is becoming negligent.

Why. Was. That. Woman. Not. In. Therapy. After. She. First. Met. With. Dr. Now????????

No, they just let her go back to CA (in itself questionable) with nothing- lose 50 lbs!  Christ, he could have told her that on Skype and saved her the agonizing (and potentially fatal) plane ride.

SEVERE trauma history- NEVER dealt with in 20-25 years in any other way besides eating.  Anyone who was the victim of a violent sexual assault needs therapy, period.  She's clearly not over the loss of her mother.  And her whole attitude about food- she's literally telling Dr Now "hey- I'm an addict!  I cannot stop myself!"  Instead of finding her help, he lectures her about how it is a CHOICE (hey Now- I think once we've reached the naked shower on TV point, it's no longer a choice...)

Food addicts, like all addicts, have NO coping skills.  When the shit hits the fan, they will eat.  The thing that's different about FA is that, unlike alcohol or drugs where you're 14 or 21 or 35 when you start, depending on your parents- you could be a FA YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.  Which means she may have NEVER learned this stuff.  EVER.  Yet you expect to send her out into the world with a one page meal plan and say, have at it- and if you fail, that's a choice?

I've been in treatment for addiction and eating disorders.  In my ED treatment, it was meal plans and skills from day one.  How are you going to function in the world witnhout the disorder?  Because, unlike other addictions, you can't avoid food.  You have to learn to live with it.  Treatment was intense, but it really helped me long-term.  

Its just crazy, coming from that perspective, that these people not only don't get intensive treatment, but don't even get referred to therapists until later on in the game, usually after they try and fail?  Maybe not everyone needs intensive treatment.  But this woman was laying it all on the table- I have an addiction, I cannot stop.  She was clearly deeply depressed and needed some kind of intervention.  To not do so was, in my opinion, a deriliction of duty. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Elizabeth9

[swankie]

Re-watched this also.  When Erica's sister and her husband were loading up the car to take her back to Houston for the surgery, Erica playfully said to her brother-in-law, "Do you love me today?" and he shot back in a mean voice, "Get your ass in the chair.", I about lost it.  It's one thing for my own flesh and blood to ridicule me and make me feel like shit, but I'll be damned if an in-law will talk to me that way.  I know they have probably been through it with her, but she's still family.  This girl's spirit has already been broken in so many ways over the years and the only person besides her niece who seemed to love her is dead.  I just can't help feeling really bad for her.

[Elizabeth9]

Ok, I'm not done being mad over this.

If overeating is a choice, Now, close the clinic!  Send everyone home, lock the doors, turn off the lights.  Post a sign on the door telling everyone to make better choices, leave the number for a nutritionist and the address of a Planet fitness and call it a day.  The end!

Why is this guy doing surgeries- and making a significant profit off of them- if all of this is a choice?  

[TurtlePower]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth9 said:

Ok, I'm not done being mad over this.

If overeating is a choice, Now, close the clinic!  Send everyone home, lock the doors, turn off the lights.  Post a sign on the door telling everyone to make better choices, leave the number for a nutritionist and the address of a Planet fitness and call it a day.  The end!

Why is this guy doing surgeries- and making a significant profit off of them- if all of this is a choice?  

I agree they all need therapy and treatment IMMEDIATELY, not just after their surgery. 

[bubbly]

When her sister said she was "an embarrassment and I hope that she gets the help that she needs so she can be a part of our family again."....

Yall.  There have been very few times I've had fire run through me in reaction to something someone on this show said; if I would have been standing there and heard that I'd have been hard pressed not to slap the color out of that woman's hair.  Why does she have to look a certain way to be a part of their family?  The real embarrassment is that they treat her the way they do with zero self awareness that they ain't exactly Mr or Ms Universe themselves.  

Sorry, had to vent.

**after watching more of the episode, I can see she wasn't an angel either in the way she treated them.  She wasn't likable and was downright unreasonable at times, and I can understand why they would be fed up with her overall.   The embarrassment her sister spoke of was still a lousy thing to say regardless.

Edited February 14, 2017 by bubbly
Watched more of the episode. She's a pill.

[Miss Chevious]

1 minute ago, bubbly said:

When her sister said she was "an embarrassment and I hope that she gets the help that she needs so she can be a part of our family again."....

Yall.  There have been very few times I've had fire run through me in reaction to something someone on this show said; if I would have been standing there and heard that I'd have been hard pressed not to slap the color out of that woman's hair.  Why does she have to look a certain way to be a part of their family?  The real embarrassment is that they treat her the way they do with zero self awareness that they ain't exactly Mr or Ms Universe themselves.  

Sorry, had to vent.

Yes, her sister(Molly?) made it sound like her family was an exclusive club and you have to be the right type of person to get in, which in her eyes, Erica clearly wasn't. I was appalled at the way she looked down her nose at Erica and her interactions with her on national TV were downright mean. You'd think she would've toned it down a bit for the camera. 

I realize Erica's family were frustrated with her and had been for a long time, but it was clear that they thought it was Erica's problem, not theirs. It must've never occurred to them that they were part of the problem as well. Had they ever suggested therapy or taken her to a therapist? Erica was so helpless, she couldn't even go out to buy her own groceries, why didn't her family stop buying the cakes, etc. and just bring her healthy foods. Sure, Erica would've had a meltdown, but so what. She couldn't DO anything about it, she would've eaten healthier if there was no other alternative. They were flat-out enabling her, but never acknowledged that. And no one addressed that in the show.

Ultimately we are all responsible for our own actions, but Erica's family was a contributing factor in her all-around miserable lifestyle before she got help from Dr. Now.

[Ocean Chick]

15 minutes ago, Miss Chevious said:

I realize Erica's family were frustrated with her and had been for a long time, but it was clear that they thought it was Erica's problem, not theirs. It must've never occurred to them that they were part of the problem as well. Had they ever suggested therapy or taken her to a therapist? Erica was so helpless, she couldn't even go out to buy her own groceries, why didn't her family stop buying the cakes, etc. and just bring her healthy foods. Sure, Erica would've had a meltdown, but so what. She couldn't DO anything about it, she would've eaten healthier if there was no other alternative. They were flat-out enabling her, but never acknowledged that. And no one addressed that in the show.

The brother and sister weren't buying ANY food for Erica by the time we "met" her - her niece was doing the food buying.  But we also saw that Erica had food establishments on speed dial and got food delivered to her.  We saw that after she got back home and the niece had cleaned out all the unhealthy food from her apartment - Erica just got on her phone and ordered crap.  Same thing after the nutritionist cleaned out her hoard of crap - Erica was crowing about how she was just going to order MORE crap.  So there was nothing the family could possibly do to stop crap from being delivered to Erica.  If Erica wanted to eat crap, should would eat crap and NO ONE could stop her.

[Miss Chevious]

Jessie is still part of the family but to be totally correct, I should have said Jessie was doing the food buying. And of course Erica could order in unhealthy food choices but that would've been all on her. She still would've eaten less crap if Jessie hadn't brought in more.

[okerry]

2 hours ago, bubbly said:

When her sister said she was "an embarrassment and I hope that she gets the help that she needs so she can be a part of our family again."....

I don't think they were talking only about Erica's appearance. They could easily have said the same thing about a family member who was a 120-pound drug addict. Addicts are miserable, bullying, hugely disruptive people to live with no matter what their drug of choice might be. You can't just allow them to destroy the rest of the family in the name of being "nice."

The sister did end her statement with, " . . . and I hope that she gets the help that she needs so she can be a part of our family again." That's more than a lot of addicts get, especially one as destructive and disruptive as Erica.

[flappa1016]

11 hours ago, Elizabeth9 said:

Ok, I might have to stop watching, because this is becoming negligent.

Why. Was. That. Woman. Not. In. Therapy. After. She. First. Met. With. Dr. Now????????

No, they just let her go back to CA (in itself questionable) with nothing- lose 50 lbs!  Christ, he could have told her that on Skype and saved her the agonizing (and potentially fatal) plane ride.

SEVERE trauma history- NEVER dealt with in 20-25 years in any other way besides eating.  Anyone who was the victim of a violent sexual assault needs therapy, period.  She's clearly not over the loss of her mother.  And her whole attitude about food- she's literally telling Dr Now "hey- I'm an addict!  I cannot stop myself!"  Instead of finding her help, he lectures her about how it is a CHOICE (hey Now- I think once we've reached the naked shower on TV point, it's no longer a choice...)

Food addicts, like all addicts, have NO coping skills.  When the shit hits the fan, they will eat.  The thing that's different about FA is that, unlike alcohol or drugs where you're 14 or 21 or 35 when you start, depending on your parents- you could be a FA YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.  Which means she may have NEVER learned this stuff.  EVER.  Yet you expect to send her out into the world with a one page meal plan and say, have at it- and if you fail, that's a choice?

I've been in treatment for addiction and eating disorders.  In my ED treatment, it was meal plans and skills from day one.  How are you going to function in the world witnhout the disorder?  Because, unlike other addictions, you can't avoid food.  You have to learn to live with it.  Treatment was intense, but it really helped me long-term.  

Its just crazy, coming from that perspective, that these people not only don't get intensive treatment, but don't even get referred to therapists until later on in the game, usually after they try and fail?  Maybe not everyone needs intensive treatment.  But this woman was laying it all on the table- I have an addiction, I cannot stop.  She was clearly deeply depressed and needed some kind of intervention.  To not do so was, in my opinion, a deriliction of duty. 

Spot on Elizabeth!  You said it much more eloquently than I was able to do. Choice my ass . . .

[flappa1016]

2 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

The brother and sister weren't buying ANY food for Erica by the time we "met" her - her niece was doing the food buying.  But we also saw that Erica had food establishments on speed dial and got food delivered to her.  We saw that after she got back home and the niece had cleaned out all the unhealthy food from her apartment - Erica just got on her phone and ordered crap.  Same thing after the nutritionist cleaned out her hoard of crap - Erica was crowing about how she was just going to order MORE crap.  So there was nothing the family could possibly do to stop crap from being delivered to Erica.  If Erica wanted to eat crap, should would eat crap and NO ONE could stop her.

And as someone upthread mentioned, in the supersize episode it was revealed that the siblings had no idea Jessie had been doing anything at all for Erica, and they were so mad at her they threatened disowning Jessie. 

[gonecrackers]

I felt bad for Jessie being threatened like that - no reason for that & immaturity of the parents showing. She was sincerely concerned about her aunt since everyone else had shunned her so she was trying to help but was too young & unaware of addict behavior so Erica clearly just took advantage of that. They could have explained that to Jessie & how her way of 'helping' isn't helping instead of over reacting & threatening to cut off Jessie as well.

[notyrmomma]

On 2/14/2017 at 1:59 AM, Elizabeth9 said:

Ok, I might have to stop watching, because this is becoming negligent.

Why. Was. That. Woman. Not. In. Therapy. After. She. First. Met. With. Dr. Now????????

No, they just let her go back to CA (in itself questionable) with nothing- lose 50 lbs!  Christ, he could have told her that on Skype and saved her the agonizing (and potentially fatal) plane ride.

SEVERE trauma history- NEVER dealt with in 20-25 years in any other way besides eating.  Anyone who was the victim of a violent sexual assault needs therapy, period.  She's clearly not over the loss of her mother.  And her whole attitude about food- she's literally telling Dr Now "hey- I'm an addict!  I cannot stop myself!"  Instead of finding her help, he lectures her about how it is a CHOICE (hey Now- I think once we've reached the naked shower on TV point, it's no longer a choice...)

Food addicts, like all addicts, have NO coping skills.  When the shit hits the fan, they will eat.  The thing that's different about FA is that, unlike alcohol or drugs where you're 14 or 21 or 35 when you start, depending on your parents- you could be a FA YOUR ENTIRE LIFE.  Which means she may have NEVER learned this stuff.  EVER.  Yet you expect to send her out into the world with a one page meal plan and say, have at it- and if you fail, that's a choice?

I've been in treatment for addiction and eating disorders.  In my ED treatment, it was meal plans and skills from day one.  How are you going to function in the world witnhout the disorder?  Because, unlike other addictions, you can't avoid food.  You have to learn to live with it.  Treatment was intense, but it really helped me long-term.  

Its just crazy, coming from that perspective, that these people not only don't get intensive treatment, but don't even get referred to therapists until later on in the game, usually after they try and fail?  Maybe not everyone needs intensive treatment.  But this woman was laying it all on the table- I have an addiction, I cannot stop.  She was clearly deeply depressed and needed some kind of intervention.  To not do so was, in my opinion, a deriliction of duty. 

He's perpetuating stereotypes of the obese this season pretty badly (it gets worse every season).  You do realize, in the first season he didn't make them (Melissa, Ashley, etc.) lose any weight to "prove" to him that they could lose weight--and they were all at around the 600 pound mark.  I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have to try their own or don't need an intensive amount of therapy--THEY DEFINITELY DO!  But what Dr. Now did, in just the first season anyway, was to take care of the acute problem first, give them weight loss surgery, without the games.  The thing is that these people are in big trouble health wise and every day they live through at 600 + pounds is a miracle.  Therapy doesn't work on a dead person.  First things first, start getting the weight down as quick as possible (if they aren't healthy enough to survive surgery, absolutely admit them to the hospital so they can be put on a very strict and monitored diet), THEN, make sure they are regularly working with a therapist.  The whole "go home and lose 50 pounds to show me you are serious" is just drama for the camera, and is very dangerous.  Seriously, go watch the first season again and you'll see what I mean.

[IvySpice]

Well, I hated and pitied everyone in the family except Jessie, who only gets pity for her naive enabling. It didn't look to me like there was any love in either direction between Erica and her siblings. Erica was childish, entitled, and self-pitying. Her siblings were mean and self-righteous. The sister in particular didn't give off a vibe of healthy boundaries -- she seemed to find a nasty enjoyment in saying hurtful things to Erica. Meanwhile, Erica was ridiculous even to ASK her brother to move to Houston with her. IMHO, a married parent who's the household breadwinner has no business giving up his livelihood to look after a sibling. I might think he was crazy/codependent if he did.

Quote

The whole "go home and lose 50 pounds to show me you are serious" is just drama for the camera

Do we know that this wasn't a revised protocol? Treatment practices do change over the years. The procedure/anesthesia carries a serious risk of death in the immediate term. It makes sense to me to withhold it until there's reason to think the long-term benefits outweigh the risks.

[Marilee]

11 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

 Seriously, go watch the first season again and you'll see what I mean.

I caught Ashley and Henry's episodes this afternoon, I've had the marathon on all day kind of in the background as I've been doing other stuff, but thinking about it now you're absolutely right! I really like the format of the first season much better. And is it just me or are the first season participants so much more likeable? Or could it be that, like NOTYRMOMMA said, things from the second season till now are edited differently (tantrums, whining, blatant failure to comply w/Dr. Now's orders etc..) to play up the drama?

Edited February 16, 2017 by Marilee
Clarification

[Jeeves]

1 hour ago, IvySpice said:

Do we know that this [the "lose 50 pounds"] wasn't a revised protocol? Treatment practices do change over the years. The procedure/anesthesia carries a serious risk of death in the immediate term. It makes sense to me to withhold it until there's reason to think the long-term benefits outweigh the risks.

^^That's what I thought. 

One problem I've always had with this show is that - on camera anyway - Dr. Now speaks so cryptically to and about his patients. By comparison, I've watched a few seasons of a similar British TV show "Fat Doctor", on YouTube. And the bariatric surgeons there - who treat morbidly obese patients - are articulate and informative not only about what they are doing but why. I learned from that show, and from reading newspaper articles, that a pre-surgery weight loss diet shrinks the patient's liver, which makes the bariatric surgery safer and easier. Also, on the later season(s) of "Fat Doctor," at least one surgeon was removing the patient's gallbladder when doing the bariatric surgery. They had adopted this protocol based on experience: they'd had many of these super-obese patients develop gallbladder problems post-surgery and end up having to go back under the knife to have their gallbladder removed, so they got proactive to prevent the suffering and additional surgery from gallbladder problems. 

So, I wish this show had more explanation of the why's and more details about the overall course of treatment of the patients. And how the protocols have evolved over time based on experience and improved information/procedures.

I'm not going to demonize Dr. Now. He takes on cases that few - if any - other surgeons will touch. These people are in horrible physical condition and AFAIK at high risk for death, probably in the not so distant future. Of course these cases are not as simple as "eating is a choice," and I don't believe that Dr. Now thinks that. But. However troubled they may be by life traumas/mental illness/addictions, a 700 pound person must understand that bariatric surgery is not a magic pill. They must be told (probably repeatedly) that after the surgery, for the rest of their life, they MUST make certain decisions about what and when they eat, if they are to lose weight and improve their health.

I've come to really hate the editing of this show. Ramps up the drah-mah and leaves out so much useful information/explanations.

[notyrmomma]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

^^That's what I thought. 

One problem I've always had with this show is that - on camera anyway - Dr. Now speaks so cryptically to and about his patients. By comparison, I've watched a few seasons of a similar British TV show "Fat Doctor", on YouTube. And the bariatric surgeons there - who treat morbidly obese patients - are articulate and informative not only about what they are doing but why. I learned from that show, and from reading newspaper articles, that a pre-surgery weight loss diet shrinks the patient's liver, which makes the bariatric surgery safer and easier. Also, on the later season(s) of "Fat Doctor," at least one surgeon was removing the patient's gallbladder when doing the bariatric surgery. They had adopted this protocol based on experience: they'd had many of these super-obese patients develop gallbladder problems post-surgery and end up having to go back under the knife to have their gallbladder removed, so they got proactive to prevent the suffering and additional surgery from gallbladder problems. 

So, I wish this show had more explanation of the why's and more details about the overall course of treatment of the patients. And how the protocols have evolved over time based on experience and improved information/procedures.

I'm not going to demonize Dr. Now. He takes on cases that few - if any - other surgeons will touch. These people are in horrible physical condition and AFAIK at high risk for death, probably in the not so distant future. Of course these cases are not as simple as "eating is a choice," and I don't believe that Dr. Now thinks that. But. However troubled they may be by life traumas/mental illness/addictions, a 700 pound person must understand that bariatric surgery is not a magic pill. They must be told (probably repeatedly) that after the surgery, for the rest of their life, they MUST make certain decisions about what and when they eat, if they are to lose weight and improve their health.

I've come to really hate the editing of this show. Ramps up the drah-mah and leaves out so much useful information/explanations.

I had the gastric sleeve performed on me in September 2014 and I have been at my goal weight of 150 for about a year and a half now.  This is an anecdotal story, but  I consulted with two different surgeons, one had his own practice the other had a larger practice at the Cleveland Clinic.  Granted, I was "only" 318 pounds (HA!) at the time the consultation, but neither doctor required any weight loss before being "approved" for surgery.  Really, the only "approval" process you have to go through is if you are using health insurance and my sister who paid cash for her surgery had no hoops to jump through, only to pass the standard tests to make sure she could survive anesthesia. The liver shrinking diet was required by both doctors and consisted of eating only protein shakes and other calorie free liquids for around 800 calories a day (any brand of shakes) two weeks before surgery.  Naturally, anyone would lose a ton of weight from that (I lost about 15 pounds), but the point is to remove as much fat from the liver as possible.

As far as the gallbladder goes, any rapid weight loss can cause gall stones which could lead to the person having to get their gallbladder removed.  There is medication you can take to prevent this, but I never took it because the pills were too big, and so far, my gallbladder is A-OK.  I had another friend who had gastric bypass and she ended up having to get her gallbladder removed a year after surgery.  I guess it just varies person to person.

And I'm going to say something very controversial, but the surgery is kind of a magic pill, at least during the first year, for NORMAL people (Penny is not a normal person).  I've said this over and over again here, but weight loss surgery is  really is a diet you can't cheat on.  The weight loss isn't always steady, weight loss never is, but over time, the weight does come off.  I didn't do anything special to get down to 150 and now I eat pretty much anything I want (Of course, many things still make me sick!), but I still can't eat more than a couple of bites at a time.  I guess I could eat a couple bites of food every few hours and gain weight that way, but I'm too busy to be eating all day.  I also didn't do any herculean effort to exercise - right now I'm just walking 30-45 minutes 5 times a week and occasionally I do something fun like an exercise belly dancing DVD.  Nothing special - no HIIT or Orange theory or anything like that.  Sorry, it's all just drama for the TV so we will watch (and buy the crap that they are advertising).  

[dahling]

20 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

And I'm going to say something very controversial, but the surgery is kind of a magic pill, at least during the first year, for NORMAL people (Penny is not a normal person).  I've said this over and over again here, but weight loss surgery is  really is a diet you can't cheat on.  The weight loss isn't always steady, weight loss never is, but over time, the weight does come off.  I didn't do anything special to get down to 150 and now I eat pretty much anything I want (Of course, many things still make me sick!), but I still can't eat more than a couple of bites at a time.  I guess I could eat a couple bites of food every few hours and gain weight that way, but I'm too busy to be eating all day.  I also didn't do any herculean effort to exercise - right now I'm just walking 30-45 minutes 5 times a week and occasionally I do something fun like an exercise belly dancing DVD.  Nothing special - no HIIT or Orange theory or anything like that.  Sorry, it's all just drama for the TV so we will watch (and buy the crap that they are advertising).

My neighbor had the surgery and tells me the same thing: she can eat whatever she wants, just a couple bites at a time. She did lose ~130 pounds.  But, she also almost died from surgery complications in the first 6-8 weeks. So that does put a slight damper on the "magic" claim.

Edited February 16, 2017 by dahling

[Ocean Chick]

I worked with a woman who had the surgery.  And she did really well for a while.  But after a year or two she started gaining the weight back.  I left that job soon after that, so I don't know if she gained it all back, but it was pretty sad how much she weighed when I left.

[55Unicorns]

I can completely relate to Erica's sister, having lived with an alcoholic for a number of years.  BUT, as a survivor of sexual abuse myself, I can also relate to Erica herself.  I believe her experience of rape stunted her emotional growth; and she processes life through a 16 year old eyes.  That might explain her immature "I will do as I want" attitude, and her resentment of the "rest of the world can eat that" mentality.  From what I understand, no one but her mother knew of the attack, and since her father was already down on her for being overweight, the rest of the children followed their father's lead.  Sad when families believe that "we don't talk about those things".

[55Unicorns]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:15 AM, silverspoons said:

I am an only child who has had to take care of my mother who is an alcoholic and has mental illness since my dad died 20 years ago, I can understand the family member's frustrations. Unlike almost all the other people on this show Erika did not have parents, kids or a spouse to help. It has been 25 years of her siblings to take care of her.

This is the one person, I just do not get how she could afford to live and eat so much including delivery food? Even if she was on disability , not only would the amount of money be low, if she was not seeing a doctor how would she pass reviews? SS requires reviews every 1-3 years and you need to show you have been going to a doctor.  She somehow is able to have a 2 bedroom apartment, bills paid, all the food she wanted plus a hoard of items. 

 

I think she wants people to feel bad for her and wanted to keep up the lonely victim. She kept saying how no one came by or called. She said how lonely she was. Why wasn't she using the computer to talk to people? There are plenty of weight loss forums and groups, she could have made friends with or lets say she didn't want to talk about weight, why not play an app like words with friends, there are always so many people (I know some are weirdos, but some are just lonely or like to chat) wanting to chat and play the "with friends" games.

 

I hope she does well but I have a feeling when and if we see her in a follow up she will not be a success story. She has a much tougher road then some, with her legs and she will need skin surgery. I just cant see her keeping up the diet and making it to the surgeries she will need to remove the lympodemias and skin.

Well, when you feel like you aren't worth a plugged nickel, its difficult to extend a hand.

[DC Gal in VA]

On 2/9/2017 at 1:37 PM, flappa1016 said:

 

 

Quote

I'm usually gung ho on Dr. Now's tough love attitude with his patients, but he really missed me off when he acknowledged she had an addiction but then in the next breath said it was a choice. Would he say the same thing to an alcoholic or a drug addict?  I somehow doubt it. Sure, deciding to try that drug for the first time is a choice, or drinking to the point of inebriation every time you drink is a choice, but once you are heavily into the addiction, compulsion takes over and choice goes out the window. As has been discussed in these weight-related show forums in the past is that a person can live without drugs or alcohol being a part of their life, but a food addict must face their drug of choice daily and must learn to moderate that drug - they can't just eliminate it from their life entirely. Add deep depression to the mix and it's like a deep black hole that seems too deep to get out of. The only choice Erica had at that point was to accept the medical and therapeutic help offered to her and hope for the best. I imagine that would be extremely difficult for Erica, as she came off as the most hopeless filled person I've ever seen. I turned off the tv after watching her show and I felt super depressed myself. 

Love, love, love the therapist.

Been meaning to post a response to your comments flappa1016. Thanks for highlighting what Dr. Now said. I remember that when I heard his comments my heart just sank. It was as I had always suspected; he just doesn't believe in food addiction. Actually what he said explains a lot like when he talks about his patients' "eating habit/bad eating habit." Heh heh, I always get a chuckle when he uses those phrases. To be clear I am a big fan of Dr. Now for taking on patients no other surgeons would go near. But for someone in his position to not believe in food addiction baffles me somewhat. My guess is that maybe since most of his patients are able to go home and lose the 40 or 50 pounds he requires, perhaps that proves to him that it's not an addiction? Or maybe he fears that if he acknowledges that they are food addicts they will use that as an excuse to not make the effort to follow his instructions? I really don't know. Just wondering what you all think.

Just to be clear, I personally do believe in food addiction--especially sugar/carb addiction--and completely disagree with Dr. Now's bad habit conclusion. To me a bad habit is whipping out a toothpick at the dinner table and flicking food bits out of your teeth. Now that's a bad habit! My apologies to anyone who may have been eating as you read that, LOL! Eating yourself into full blown disability, pain, and complete dependency on others is a food addiction IMHO.

Edited to add that I definitely loved that therapist as you do. I think continuing to receive therapy from her will absolutely be crucial to Erica's efforts to lose and maintain her weight loss.

Edited February 19, 2017 by DC Gal in VA
To add additional comments and fix typos.

[TheVoicesToldMeTo]

The big problem I have with this show (other than the exploitation of people in their most vulnerable state) is that over a 2 hour block they barely even scratch the surface of how the subjects got to this state. 

Glossed over:  most of the subjects grew up/currently live in border-line poverty in inner cities or rural areas.  Take a few generations of family who are barely employed (and employment opportunities constantly evaporating), poor education, playing musical chairs with parenting and guardianship, that chaos inviting in molesters and abusers, guardians who can't afford family perks like vacations or Christmas presents, compensating with tons of buffet style comfort food meals for the minors in their care....each generation getting fatter and fatter.  I can only recall one episode where a subject showed up for a Dr Now appt - it was a woman and her husband, mother, maybe a few other family members showed up, all obese but not to the 600 lb level - and Dr asked for a raise of hands of who is employed.  None of them.  All living on disability. 

The way the subjects are portrayed is that they got this large in a vacuum, or only had a few triggering events.  There is an epidemic of obesity in these communities that is not about laziness or one traumatic event.  There's a reason Dr Now has his practice in Houston - there's a huge concentration of obese Americans in rural TX, OK, AL, MS. 

[DNR]

Tho I'm no expert , I agree just just like alcohol , drugs , food addiction is real. If ttheres sex & gambling addiction , why wouldn't food be addictive ? Sugar , carbs have a physiological effect . Just my opinion .  Also . I'm over the shower scenes ... Why are they necessary ? We get it - being 600lbs makes self care close to and sometimes impossible. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by DNR
Ninja edit

[okerry]

5 hours ago, DNR said:

Tho I'm no expert , I agree just just like alcohol , drugs , food addiction is real. If ttheres sex & gambling addiction , why wouldn't food be addictive ? Sugar , carbs have a physiological effect . Just my opinion .  

***I absolutely agree that food addiction is very real. I also think hoarding is a form of addiction.

Also . I'm over the shower scenes ... Why are they necessary ? We get it - being 600lbs makes self care close to and sometimes impossible. 

Even though they're hard to watch, I can understand why the shower scenes are included. It's to make sure the audience understands that these people are not just larger-than-average size, but have seriously damaged their bodies to the point that they're really undergoing a slow and painful death. Just seeing them hobbling around in long shirts or (especially) lying in bed will not show the extent of the destruction.