S01.E05: An Ordinary Woman

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Second thoughts and other complications accent Victoria and Albert's potential marriage, including whether the queen should promise to obey the foreign prince.

[Meredith Quill]

Please ensure you have read and understand the forum spoiler policy before posting in here.

Thanks.

[Brattinella]

*Swoon* Their love!

[janeta]

Boy, Albert is dull.... Ok so who was that Hilda woman? Did i doze through her in a previous ep?

 

and why did it take me this long to realize Mrs Jenkins is Eve Myles? 

Edited February 6, 2017 by janeta

[Constantinople]

Wait, Albert wrote the first edition of the Joy of Sex?

[Primetimer]

Where does the royal wedding leave everyone else?

View the full article

[attica]

God, with all the whispering Tom Hughes does here, it'd be a marvel if any of his dialogue made it to the recording without looping later.

That said, Jenna Coleman does crazy with the eye-banging. :fans self::

[Pickles]

I will miss Lord M. 

[voiceover]

33 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Wait, Albert wrote the first edition of the Joy of Sex?

Nah.  That was Gretchen.

[skyways]

You guys are hilarious. As for the episode...........give me a few minutes. Lol.

[mmecorday]

Jenna Coleman and Tom Hughes are red hot as Victoria and Albert. I think flames were leaping from my TV at one point. Maybe I should put a call in to a technician to check on that.

The wedding was beautiful and I liked that Victoria opted for the flowers instead of the tiara. What is it that Albert said during his wedding vows that caused a stir? Did he say something in German?

[TaurusRose]

I liked this episode very much.  I love the chemistry between Victoria and Albert and I loved all of their scenes.  It's so sweet how head over heels they are in love with each other.  I thought it was adorable the way neither could wait to be married or that Albert spent a significant amount of time thinking about their honeymoon.  At the same time, I can understand him wanting an identity and purpose aside from being the queen's husband. As always Ernest was entertaining.  The side trip to the "house of ill repute" cracked me up.  I thought Gretchen's amusement was gentle and her treatment of Albert very kind.  The kitchen people continue to be unwelcome filler, but at least the extra dialogue in scenes edited in the UK broadcast help to make the affected scenes coherent.  The Duke of Wellington is a smug jerk and I so wanted Victoria to say something snarky when he suggested Albert might be Catholic.  I liked Rufus Sewell's performance as Lord M immensely in this his final episode.  It must have been bittersweet watching the young queen whose affection and ear he'd held for a time run off to start a new life with her beloved prince.  I guess Leopold didn't mind Albert's reduced income too much when the alternative was to give up his own. I'm liking Tom Hughes as Albert.  He's not replacing Rupert Friend for me, but I can appreciate both performances because when all is said and done, I'm just a mushy romantic at heart. And I can never have too many scenes of Victoria snuggling with Dash.  

Quote

What is it that Albert said during his wedding vows that caused a stir? Did he say something in German?

He pledged his worldly goods to his new bride and Wellington sniggered because Albert comes from a poor German country.  I'm sorry, but the English nobles were insufferably arrogant.

Edited February 6, 2017 by taurusrose

[LittleIggy]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Wait, Albert wrote the first edition of the Joy of Sex?

I could just see him consulting his notes while having sex with Victoria! :-) BTW, Ernst was much hotter than Albert. Albert looked so emo with that hair falling across his forehead.

Please let Uncle Leopold be gone for good! Why the bleep didn't Parliament cut off his allowance when his wife died?

No more Lord M? :-(

[voiceover]

Albert's been growing on me.  I think he won me over when he grinned at Vic as they cut their wedding cake.  

Ice cream in the sun, I was.

[JudyObscure]

I'm all in love with love, now.  Albert can mumble and sulk all he wants, he is just so very handsome in his uniforms that I shallowly forgive everything.

Put me down for hating the trope of young men learning all about sex from the prostitutes. First of all, I think nature set us all up well enough that we don't really need lessons, but if Albert wanted to learn the fine points of how to please a woman, he would have been much better off with an older "lady," rather than young working girls who are only trained in how to please  men. Most importantly, I actually yelled out , "No!" when I saw where this was going because syphilis was rampant and deadly at that time.  Once again, no one around to protect the Queen's physical being.  Not to mention a sword at her throat, but I guess everyone's getting used to the young Prince's playfulness with a blade.

[b2H]

I suspect the sword at her throat was to get her attention as to his seriousness about his issues.  I can't imagine (and history bears this out) that he would harm a hair on her head. 

I also believe that it was Victoria that started the tradition of a white dress for a wedding.

http://time.com/3698249/white-weddings/

[kirinan]

9 hours ago, taurusrose said:

I liked Rufus Sewell's performance as Lord M immensely in this his final episode.  It must have been bittersweet watching the young queen whose affection and ear he'd held for a time run off to start a new life with her beloved prince. 

Wait, wait, wait--I haven't watched this one yet--I was going to check it out tonight--but it's his final episode? Really? Oh, man, I have to be honest, I don't care enough about any of the other characters to keep watching it if he's gone. However, I wouldn't mind having an hour of my week back...

[dixiemama]

What did Victoria's dressing maid say about the way her life turned out?  She was whispering and I only caught half of it, she traded lives with someone? 

[MV713]

I watch this show with captions on - it helps tremendously.

Ok this is just being nitpicky BUT - If the wedding was Feb 10, and when Victoria said goodbye to Albert for 6 weeks, it would have been around Christmas time. Cold in England, no? But yet no one wore any cover-ups, coats, etc and Victoria had an off the shoulder dress on!  Plus the pathway they always walk down had trees that looked seasoned for Fall.

this kind of thing puts a damper on my wanting it to be real :)

I am in love with this show though!

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, b2H said:

I suspect the sword at her throat was to get her attention as to his seriousness about his issues.  I can't imagine (and history bears this out) that he would harm a hair on her head. 

I agree, that's why I called his sword-at-throat playful, but if Victoria had her version of the Secret Service to watch over her, it really wouldn't be proper for them to make the call about how serious his intentions were and, of course, they didn't have history to look at.  They barely knew him at this point.  If the First Lady playfully put a gun to her husband's head, I'll bet his guards would disarm her in a heartbeat.  Still, I don't know just what sort of protection she had.

[Mindthinkr]

44 minutes ago, dixiemama said:

What did Victoria's dressing maid say about the way her life turned out?  She was whispering and I only caught half of it, she traded lives with someone? 

I'm with you about that conversation and will have to take MV17's suggestion and watch with closed captioning. I heard something about her coming from a nunnery. I'll have to rewatch with CC on. 

[attica]

It's a well known aspect of English life that the discussion of money is unspeakably vulgar, a subject to be avoided, etc. And yet, that's all these aristos/lesser royals seem to do. (I'm thinking of Austen and Dickens. too, where income is always important to plot.) And I suspect it's not the last we'll hear of Allowances!

[jumper sage]

When Albert was in the house of ill repute:  I was screaming at the tv, "NO, NO, NO!"  Loved when he took notes.  Phew!

This coming from a history buff.  Also loved how she ran to her wedding night.

Spoiler

Just found this.  YIKES.  Oh good Lord here is a better link.  You can see the dueling links for historical accuracy.

Edited February 6, 2017 by jumper sage

[Kathira]

3 hours ago, b2H said:

I also believe that it was Victoria that started the tradition of a white dress for a wedding.

http://time.com/3698249/white-weddings/

Yes, her wedding was hugely influential stylistically. The white dress, the flowers and simple veil, the young girls as bridesmaids, and especially the gorgeous white cake. Just about everything that we think of as wedding traditions were started by Victoria. Even having it in the morning, followed by a brunch was new, rather than the traditional evening ceremony, followed by the "bedding." She was what we would consider today to be a "style icon" of the highest order.

[AuntiePam]

I'm not feeling any chemistry between these two, so unless they move from the romance to governing and social change, I'm out.  I might feel differently if I wasn't comparing Victoria-Albert to Victoria-Lord M -- their scenes crackle with sexual tension. 

I did like Penge cleaning up for his long-lost love -- Hilda.  I assume there was a prior connection in Germany, or in a German household -- ??

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

4 hours ago, dixiemama said:

What did Victoria's dressing maid say about the way her life turned out?  She was whispering and I only caught half of it, she traded lives with someone? 

I'm with you about that conversation and will have to take MV17's suggestion and watch with closed captioning. I heard something about her coming from a nunnery. I'll have to rewatch with CC on. 

"Nunnery" = whorehouse, where she worked, possibly in the laundry, possibly not.   The real Eliza Skerrett became pregnant (she met a person who was a --- it was an unusual profession/hobby that I can't recall) so couldn't take the job in Victoria's household that she had apparently earned, and trained the fake "Eliza" to do hair well enough that she passed as Eliza. I actually believe her about working in the laundry, because she seems to have good sewing skills.

ETA:  in exchange for being able to take the real Eliza's place, "Eliza" is giving her money/lace collars when she can to help support her and her child.

Edited February 6, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

I did like Penge cleaning up for his long-lost love -- Hilda.  I assume there was a prior connection in Germany, or in a German household -- ??

There was a comment about meeting at a previous wedding.  It's probably created for the show, but, remember that Victoria's mother is Albert's aunt, and also came over from Coburg to marry Victoria's father 22 years ago.

[snarktini]

19 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

"Nunnery" = whorehouse, where she worked, possibly in the laundry, possibly not.   The real Eliza Skerrett became pregnant (she met a person who was a --- it was an unusual profession/hobby that I can't recall) so couldn't take the job in Victoria's household that she had apparently earned, and trained the fake "Eliza" to do hair well enough that she passed as Eliza. I actually believe her about working in the laundry, because she seems to have good sewing skills.

Right, she worked in the Nunnery (the name of a local whorehouse) and I also believe her story about being in the laundry there.  The real Eliza met a trumpet player (something like that, maybe trombone?) and got pregnant. We learned last episode she chose to keep the baby rather than give the baby up to an orphanage and take the palace job. Our Eliza took her place. She said sometimes she thinks she's the lucky one, sometimes she doesn't.

She said she never wanted to get married last episode, now I wonder if that's truly what she wants (fine by me, more power to her) or if she feels she can't have a life of her own because she's living a lie and can't afford to be caught out.

The chef skeeves me out. The way he skulks around Eliza feels menacing. It feels so classically like a man who fancies himself a suave white knight but in reality following her around after dark, staring at her, and making sure she knows he knows her secret is actually really creepy.

[Nidratime]

Quote

Right, she worked in the Nunnery (the name of a local whorehouse) and I also believe her story about being in the laundry there.  The real Eliza met a trumpet player (something like that, maybe trombone?) and got pregnant. We learned last episode she chose to keep the baby rather than give the baby up to an orphanage and take the palace job. Our Eliza took her place. She said sometimes she thinks she's the lucky one, sometimes she doesn't.

Thanks for spelling that out. I was having a hard time understanding this subplot, probably because they speak so low sometimes. (I actually thought that other woman was her sister or something.)

[LittleIggy]

"Nunnery" was a generic euphemism for a house of ill-repute, not a specific bordello. When Hamlet tells Ophelia to "get thee to a nunnery," he is not telling her to go into a religious order. So I've read.

Edited February 6, 2017 by LittleIggy

[Constantinople]

I don't know if this is Lord M's last episode or not, but now that Victoria & Albert are married, it's time for Uncle Leopold to sod off back to Belgium.

I don't need to see a budding romance between DoublePlusUnCarson and Frau Blücher.

I'm starting to think Albert's brother and Victoria's chef are the same person.

[poeticlicensed]

I saw Victoria's dress on display at Kensington Palace and she was tiny. I mean TINY. 

[TaurusRose]

10 hours ago, b2H said:

I suspect the sword at her throat was to get her attention as to his seriousness about his issues.  I can't imagine (and history bears this out) that he would harm a hair on her head. 

I also believe that it was Victoria that started the tradition of a white dress for a wedding.

http://time.com/3698249/white-weddings/

Plus the tip of the blade had a little nub on the end to prevent injuring your dueling partner.  I liked everything about Victoria's wedding.  She ignored convention and looked every bit the young, romantic, radiant bride that she was.

6 hours ago, snarktini said:

Right, she worked in the Nunnery (the name of a local whorehouse) and I also believe her story about being in the laundry there.  The real Eliza met a trumpet player (something like that, maybe trombone?) and got pregnant. We learned last episode she chose to keep the baby rather than give the baby up to an orphanage and take the palace job. Our Eliza took her place. She said sometimes she thinks she's the lucky one, sometimes she doesn't.

She said she never wanted to get married last episode, now I wonder if that's truly what she wants (fine by me, more power to her) or if she feels she can't have a life of her own because she's living a lie and can't afford to be caught out.

The chef skeeves me out. The way he skulks around Eliza feels menacing. It feels so classically like a man who fancies himself a suave white knight but in reality following her around after dark, staring at her, and making sure she knows he knows her secret is actually really creepy.

I watch practically everything with closed caption on.  I'm not hard of hearing, I just find the sound for dialogue is awful on a lot of shows.  Everything explained here was completely edited out of the U.K. version, so I couldn't really figure out what the deal was with Nancy aka Eliza until now.  I don't know why that decision was made, but when I bought the season pass from iTunes, I discovered they are selling the U.K. version. Since I want what is being broadcast here, I asked for and received a refund. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by taurusrose

[snarktini]

27 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

I watch practically everything with closed caption on.  I'm not hard of hearing, I just find the sound for dialogue is awful on a lot of shows.  Everything explained here was completely edited out the U.K. version, so I couldn't really figure out what the deal was with Nancy aka Eliza until now.  I don't know why that decision was made, but when I bought the season pass from iTunes, I discovered they are selling the U.K. version.  Since I want what is being broadcast here, I asked for and received a refund.

What a pain! PBS is running full episodes, so maybe you don't need to pay anyway? I, too, run CC even though my hearing is fantastic. I don't like a loud TV (partly because my hearing is too good in high ranges) and that means sometimes dialogue is low.

FWIW, they're being cryptic with this story. It wasn't laid out clearly and I've had to stitch together bits from several conversations (and some other commenters' thoughts) to get that synopsis. Which is in stark contrast to how they are beating.us.over.the.head with the dialogue between V&A.

Edited February 6, 2017 by snarktini

[Kierstyn]

I am loving how well they are handling the jewelry on the show. That sapphire brooch Victoria is wearing in the big picture at the top of this article, is a great replica of the actual sapphire jewel that Albert gave Victoria the day before their wedding. Queen Elizabeth still wears it, regularly.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 minutes ago, Kierstyn said:

I am loving how well they are handling the jewelry on the show. That sapphire brooch Victoria is wearing in the big picture at the top of this article, is a great replica of the actual sapphire jewel that Albert gave Victoria the day before their wedding. Queen Elizabeth still wears it, regularly.

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/02/sunday-brooch-prince-alberts-sapphire.html

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

"Nunnery" was a generic euphemism for a house of ill-repute, not a specific bordello. When Hamlet tells Ophelia to "get thee to a nunnery," he is not telling her to go into a religious order. So I've read.

True. The way creepy chef said he recognized her from the nunnery made it sound like a specific one to me, but it could also have been generic.

[Mindthinkr]

15 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/02/sunday-brooch-prince-alberts-sapphire.html

Looking at it I wonder that it inspired Prince Charles to use (have custom made) a similar sapphire and diamond engagement ring when he proposed to Princess Diana. That ring is currently being worn by Prince William's wife Kate Middleton. Thank you for the clickable link. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

32 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/02/sunday-brooch-prince-alberts-sapphire.html

Looking at it I wonder that it inspired Prince Charles to use (have custom made) a similar sapphire and diamond engagement ring when he proposed to Princess Diana. That ring is currently being worn by Prince William's wife Kate Middleton. Thank you for the clickable link. 

It's from a great website.

[TaurusRose]

3 hours ago, snarktini said:

FWIW, they're being cryptic with this story. It wasn't laid out clearly and I've had to stitch together bits from several conversations (and some other commenters' thoughts) to get that synopsis. Which is in stark contrast to how they are beating.us.over.the.head with the dialogue between V&A.

Yeah, it kind of sucks.  PBS shows the episodes for free for a limited time.  After that, you can subscribe to their OD service.  I want to add the series to my collection 'cause I'm graspy like that. LOL  

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/02/sunday-brooch-prince-alberts-sapphire.html

Blue is my favorite color and I've long been in love with blue sapphires.  I think it's really pretty wonderful that the royal family has so many heirloom pieces to treasure.  Just think how amazing it would be to wear a piece of jewelry that Albert had given Victoria.

Edited February 6, 2017 by taurusrose

[Brattinella]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2012/02/sunday-brooch-prince-alberts-sapphire.html

Thanks so much for this!  It is a wonderful site.

[iMonrey]

The "downstairs" characters simply aren't compelling enough to merit their own story. I'm fine with seeing them in snippets, so they can gossip about life "upstairs," but beyond that, they just aren't working the way the writers clearly want them to: as counterparts for the Downton Abbey servants. Part of the problem might be casting, but I think the larger part of the problem is that Queen Victoria, Prince Albert, Lord M, etc., are so much more important than the fictional Crawleys that there is too much of a disconnect between their own lives and that of humble servants. The fictional life of Lady Mary, for example, sort of pales in comparison to the importance of the Queen of England. So it was easier to find interest in Mary's servants than it is in Victoria's.

That's probably my main complaint because otherwise I find the show fascinating, even if I do feel like Victoria and Albert's courtship was rushed. That might be a result of having too much story to cover in eight episodes. 

And as a lifelong fan of  Britcoms, it somewhat pains me to see Peter Bowles looking so old. To me, he will always be Richard DeVere of To The Manor Born.

[Brattinella]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

And as a lifelong fan of  Britcoms, it somewhat pains me to see Peter Bowles looking so old. To me, he will always be Richard DeVere of To The Manor Born.

Agreed.  Sometimes our local PBS plays To The Manor Born, and I hate that he looks so old now.

[TaurusRose]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The "downstairs" characters simply aren't compelling enough to merit their own story. I'm fine with seeing them in snippets, so they can gossip about life "upstairs," but beyond that, they just aren't working the way the writers clearly want them to: as counterparts for the Downton Abbey servants. Part of the problem might be casting, but I think the larger part of the problem is that Queen Victoria, Prince Albert, Lord M, etc., are so much more important than the fictional Crawleys that there is too much of a disconnect between their own lives and that of humble servants. The fictional life of Lady Mary, for example, sort of pales in comparison to the importance of the Queen of England. So it was easier to find interest in Mary's servants than it is in Victoria's.

That's probably my main complaint because otherwise I find the show fascinating, even if I do feel like Victoria and Albert's courtship was rushed. That might be a result of having too much story to cover in eight episodes. 

And as a lifelong fan of  Britcoms, it somewhat pains me to see Peter Bowles looking so old. To me, he will always be Richard DeVere of To The Manor Born.

Excellent points about the downstairs crew.  I didn't watch Downtown Abbey, so I have nothing to compare them with, but they are fodder.  Don't care.  Go away.  Peter Bowles is 80 years old. Sadly, we can't hang on to youth.  I can't believe my face when compared to a picture of myself at 25 or so.  Now, I'm crying.  LOL

Edited February 6, 2017 by taurusrose

[AuntiePam]

My problem with the downstairs crew is that there aren't enough of them.  That huge place is so sparsely populated -- unless there's an event -- that it doesn't feel realistic. 

[Brattinella]

22 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

My problem with the downstairs crew is that there aren't enough of them.  That huge place is so sparsely populated -- unless there's an event -- that it doesn't feel realistic. 

Exactly so.  While watching another Henry VIII drama, it was remarked that 800 couriers followed him around from castle to castle.  Plus 200 or more cooks and staff in the kitchen.

[maraleia]

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I saw Victoria's dress on display at Kensington Palace and she was tiny. I mean TINY. 

Yeah look at Kristen Chenowith's height and that's how tiny Victoria was.

[PJ123]

Still using the fast forward for downstairs and it appears from the comments I'm not missing much.  I loved Eve Myles in Torchwood so it does pain me to miss her performance but I just cant stand the story lines shoehorned into this series.

Oh my Peter Bowles!  To The Manor Born is one of my favorite BritComs.

PBS seems to make these weird cuts on the British import programs.  Call The Midwife is one that comes to mind.  Its been mentioned it was for "time" or "content".  All I see is that is for PBS to promote its own shows and I think by watching these shows we are more sophisticated to handle any "content".  I wish they would stop it.

[proserpina65]

Well, that was Rufus Sewell's last episode, so I might be out.  Because I don't really care about the rest of these people.  Although I would gladly watch a show about Prince Ernst's merry adventures in Coburg.

[proserpina65]

28 minutes ago, PJ123 said:

PBS seems to make these weird cuts on the British import programs.  Call The Midwife is one that comes to mind.  Its been mentioned it was for "time" or "content".  All I see is that is for PBS to promote its own shows and I think by watching these shows we are more sophisticated to handle any "content".  I wish they would stop it.

From what I gather up thread, PBS isn't actually making cuts to Victoria, and is airing more than what aired in the UK.  That is, if I'm correctly understanding what Taurusrose and Snarktini said.