S05.E31: P.S. I Love You Part 1 / S05.E32: P.S. I Love You Part 2

[Primetimer]

Season 5 closes with Donna deciding whether she loves Ray more than the use of her arm.

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[Primetimer]

But at least it's a dry horror.

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[txhorns79]

So the picture where Donna is "covered up," what is up with the hair of the girl who is sitting next to her?  It is just like there is a giant ball of uncombed mess on that poor girl's head. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by txhorns79

[benteen]

Quote

It's bad to be in the Mob, but this is 100% the right call for Tom to make.

LOL.

The subject matter is not funny but Donna's stuntman going down the stairs will never not be funny.

I'm surprised you didn't have a screencap of Brandon doing the prank calls and then calling Kelly out.

[Princess Sparkle]

I remember that when these episodes aired the first time, I for some reason thought Val was Brandon and Brenda's cousin, as opposed to just "friend of the family" and I was so grossed out when Brandon and Val kissed.  I mean, I'm still grossed out now, but that's because of Brandon's kissing technique.

[gesundheit]

I always hated that they tried to gaslight us the next season on what happened between Val and Brandon. We're told they just kissed and it was bad and awkward and they knew right away it was silly! Nah, that's not what it looks like to me. And I don't believe for a second that after she'd been in heat for him for so long she'd just laugh it off. Not sure what happened between seasons to make them abandon whatever the plan was.

[TeeVee329]

36 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I always hated that they tried to gaslight us the next season on what happened between Val and Brandon. We're told they just kissed and it was bad and awkward and they knew right away it was silly! Nah, that's not what it looks like to me. And I don't believe for a second that after she'd been in heat for him for so long she'd just laugh it off. Not sure what happened between seasons to make them abandon whatever the plan was.

And isn't there a huge retcon about this moment down the line?  I remember something about Valerie and Kelly both having the flu and being stuck hanging around Casa Walsh and it coming out that Kelly stopped by that day and "ruined Val's one chance with Brandon" or some such stupidness.

[TeeVee329]

Congrats to Val (and her boobs) on her Season MVP wins!

And when next we meet...GINGER!!!!!

[MerBearStare]

I think that mobster guy also played Matt's dad on Melrose Place.

I listened to the podcast before I saw the Visual Aids and I knew exactly the kind of plaid top you were describing when talking about Donna's madras outfit. I think that kind of halter top was popular for the rest of the 90's. At least based on what I remember seeing in Seventeen magazine when I was in high school.

I listened to this episode on the bus and I full on snorted when Dave accidentally played all the sounds at once and the girl sitting next to me gave me a nasty look. She moved seats shortly thereafter, so thanks for helping me get a seat to myself.

[MCMLXXVII]

I rather like Kelly's hair this episode since it has a bit of a Marilyn Monroe retro vibe, and her makeup looks good, though her outfits (especially that beige floral business) are bad. 

Steve looks great tanned in the white shirt and blue blazer. They just needed to put him in some decent clothes.

[gesundheit]

  49 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I always hated that they tried to gaslight us the next season on what happened between Val and Brandon. We're told they just kissed and it was bad and awkward and they knew right away it was silly! Nah, that's not what it looks like to me. And I don't believe for a second that after she'd been in heat for him for so long she'd just laugh it off. Not sure what happened between seasons to make them abandon whatever the plan was.

And isn't there a huge retcon about this moment down the line?  I remember something about Valerie and Kelly both having the flu and being stuck hanging around Casa Walsh and it coming out that Kelly stopped by that day and "ruined Val's one chance with Brandon" or some such stupidness.

Yeah, they always had a really hard time being consistent about Val's feelings for Brandon.

[TeeVee329]

20 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Yeah, they always had a really hard time being consistent about Val's feelings for Brandon.

It also didn't make sense as the basis of Kelly and Valerie's feud since they had already been hating each other for close to a year by that point.

[Nanna]

I REALLY hate to side with Brandon, but I kind of have to here. His girlfriend just cheated on him with his best friend, turned down his proposal and walked out on him and now seems to expect to pick up where they left off. If ever there was an excuse to get drunk and be stupid with his even more stupid friends and trying to bang the hottest girl around - this is it. And Kelly dares to act as if he's the one at fault because she was "caught in the middle" or some BS. She chose to be right there in the middle between those two assholes.
I clearly remember one of the scenes that must have been cut: Ray playing his guitar in the hospital which seemed to charm Felice. He played "Obladi-oblada" and David remarks upon it later, something along the lines of "Who knew Felice was such a Beatles fan". I guess they didn't even bother to ask what it would cost to keep that song in the episode.

[CurlyATX]

Does this mean that we'll also have Kelly's 21st birthday Dave Koz concert?  So excited... that means Cokedup!Kelly /Single White Female is coming around the bend.  I hope it's as good as I remember it.  I think that's the height of the soapy goodness. 

[Earmuffs Mom]

Allison - And we never saw her again....

[benteen]

Ray's delivery of "That's because you make me mad" is hilarious and still a line I repeat to this day.

Brandon kissed Valerie with his stupid move of keeping his arm like backwards when he kissed women.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Mobster guy was on Melrose, but as the D&D boss, Bruce. Which doesn't mean he wasn't also Matt Sr. but I don't remember that part.

[TeeVee329]

The Bruce of hanging himself over Amanda's desk fame?

[AndySmith]

Mobster guy in this episode was Matt's dad.

Dylan's future father-in-law (aka Toni's dad), the other mobster guy we see in season 6, was also on Melrose Place. He was the one who played Bruce.

Edited January 30, 2017 by AndySmith

[MCMLXXVII]

I only knew of Monika Schnarre as the sorceress on the syndicated "Beastmaster", and found out about her modeling career and 90210 guest spot years later.  I loved all those shows! Even got the "Beastmaster" DVDs because loincloth fetish.

[marceline]

I'm going to assume that the song that got cut for rights was The Heights' "How Do You Talk To an Angel." Weren't they pretty much playing that non-stop in preparation of The Heights series spinoff?

[TeeVee329]

I think "The Heights" had already aired and flopped and thus the role of Ray was created for Jamie Walters, right?

[Lisin]

44 minutes ago, marceline said:

I'm going to assume that the song that got cut for rights was The Heights' "How Do You Talk To an Angel." Weren't they pretty much playing that non-stop in preparation of The Heights series spinoff?

 

42 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

I think "The Heights" had already aired and flopped and thus the role of Ray was created for Jamie Walters, right?

You're right @TeeVee329. The Heights was in 1992. I FLOVED that show and was so sad it got canceled... it's probably terrible though, if I saw it now I mean. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think "The Heights" had already aired and flopped and thus the role of Ray was created for Jamie Walters, right?

The Heights went off the air in November 1992.  Ray didn't show up until the fall of 1994.  However, I'm sure that since The Heights was a Spelling show, it was how Walters eventually got this part.   

Edited January 30, 2017 by txhorns79

[Molly Cule]

I recoil in horror every time I  remember that Muntz has sloe gin fizz in one of those holsters. Has he got a CO2 tank strapped to his back too? Fuck outta here, show.

 

edit: or wait, is that exactly how those things work and I'M the dumbass? Either way, I'm not drinking anything from a squirt gun hanging from someone's crotch. Shut up, show. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Molly Cule

[bethster2000]

I'm still pissed about what they did to the Ray character.  It didn't have to be that way, and the relationship between a Bev Hills princess and a working-class guy could have been so much more.  Instead they just fed into some stupid stereotype.

[StatMom]

Although I hate to give the stupid trans story any more attention, what always bugged me about the big reveal scene is the PREPOSTEROUS voice change at the end. Could Monika not speak low enough to to get it across to us stupid viewers that "THIS WAS TOTES A GUY THAT STEVE WANTED TO BONE, HAR HAR HAR!"? 

[TeslaNewton]

3 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

I only knew of Monika Schnarre as the sorceress on the syndicated "Beastmaster", and found out about her modeling career and 90210 guest spot years later.  I loved all those shows! Even got the "Beastmaster" DVDs because loincloth fetish.

No way! I know her from Friday the 13th: The Series. Until now, I never realized she was on 90210. 

[gpgurl50]

What really gets me is that "I choose me" has become this iconic TV moment. I mean, when someone chooses no one in a love triangle, it's sometimes called pulling a Kelly Taylor. Yet, she fully intended to keep dating Brandon so she wasn't really choosing herself as much as she was choosing Brandon. She phrased 'I'm not ready to marry you' as 'I choose me.'

Val truly was the MVP of the season. It's a shame we didn't get to see Val and Brenda together.

[benteen]

Agreed about Val.  She and Brenda would have been fun together.

[SoupThrower]

Let me get this straight. Kelly dumps Brandon basically but still wants a relationship with him. Then is coy about Allison who no one would care that you're spending time with you. Doesn't tell her roommates at all but then gives mixed signals to Allison who really deserves more than to be in love with Kelly. Then says goodbye to her in the night. Then rocks up to Palm Springs and first thing is she does is act high and mighty over some prank calling. Then doesn't tell when there is something wrong with her best friend who was abused by her boyfriend and then blames Valerie for some reason. Then basically tells Brandon that she's still keen on him and doesn't take responsibility for cheating on him and makes it their fault (well kind of Dylan's too). Then worst of all...she gives a shitty present to Jim and Cindy who have done a lot for her.

Kelly has out worsted Brandon and Dylan together in one go. 

[JaggedLilPill]

I'm sure towards the end of season 4, Brenda also thought the gang were a bunch of "avocado heads," so her and Val would have gotten along splendidly. 

[Jax7917]

Though Brenda got treated like **** the last season she was on the show, they did a pretty good job of casually making her grow apart from the group. After kelly betrayed her, that friendship was over then and there.. but once college started, Brenda was just done with that group. I found it pretty realistic that she would want to get away from beverly hills and move on with her life and meet different people. After the way they all treated her, I would have wanted out too. I do wonder what it would have been like with her staying on the show another few seasons. I definitely think her and dylan would have been endgame if the circumstances fit.

[Jax7917]

yeah I really don't understand how you're gonna "choose me" and then the next day tell the guy you dumped for "me" that you still want a relationship with him. Kelly really is the  worst ever.

Even at the end of the show you would think she would learn to practice what she preaches about improving her reputation, yet cheats with dylan in mexico ( even though her boyfriend was married) while gina is with him. This girl never learns and that's fine, but for the love of anything.. stop talking about wanting to change your reputation followed by cheating on every guy you're with

[CurlyATX]

I hated the talk between Dylan and Brandon on the bus ride home.  Why isn't Brandon upset that his girlfriend was making out (or, if he doesn't know it, giving "signals") to Dylan??  They both are like "yup, we got conned by this gal- what to do?"

Is Val now done with lusting after these losers?

[CurlyATX]

Ah... but for Kelly, things are "complicated" and cheating isn't "that simple".  She and Dylan have "a connection" that honestly seems to be purely sexual.  They hate each other but love to bone.  She also spins her reputation quite a bit.  Later on, the rep came because of Ross Webber who wrote mean things in the bathroom (not because Kelly was swimming naked on the first date).  She even tells Donna that she (Kelly) can't even imagine having sex with someone she wasn't in love with (when Donna wants to cheat on Noah). 

Brandon has always been jealous of Dylan- remember way back when Cheryl came to visit?  Later on, Brandon is mad that Dylan saves the Peach Pit.  I think that's why the wedding never really happened... because after Brandon "won" Kelly the second time and they get engaged, he realized that she really isn't a big prize.  Don't they cancel the wedding because they realize they have zero chemistry together? This harkens back to the first season where Brandon says he thinks of Kelly like a sister. 

[AndySmith]

I dunno, as much as she drifted from the group, she was still friends with them mostly, even if she an Kelly were on-again off-again friends. And I never saw what they all did as a collective that was so bad. I mean, it isn't like they were all constantly plotting to ditch her whenever they could or make plans without her or whatever. She did seem to leave BH on good terms with just about everyone, once she went to London, even Kelly.

To a certain extent, all of them seemed to move away from each other that season, a little bit. In one episode, I think Steve even discusses it with either Kelly or Donna.

I do wonder what they would have done had SD not been booted off the show. Another season of the Brenda/Dylan/Kelly triangle? Keep Kelly moving onto Brandon, while Dylan and Brenda reunite? Would Dylan have been scammed and lost his money and goInsert other media ne on his downward spiral had Brenda stayed? Who knows, but it would have at been interesting to see where things would have gone with Brenda around.

Edited January 31, 2017 by AndySmith

[TeeVee329]

12 hours ago, gpgurl50 said:

What really gets me is that "I choose me" has become this iconic TV moment. I mean, when someone chooses no one in a love triangle, it's sometimes called pulling a Kelly Taylor. Yet, she fully intended to keep dating Brandon so she wasn't really choosing herself as much as she was choosing Brandon. She phrased 'I'm not ready to marry you' as 'I choose me.'

And let's not forget - for all her "I choose me!" and her saying at the end of this episode that she's not gonna give up on Brandon that easily, when we rejoin everyone after the summer, Dylan and Brandon are still single, but Kelly's the one who's already in a new relationship, one that's serious enough that the guy follows her across the country.

[ZeroDiscipline]

I always hated that they tried to gaslight us the next season on what happened between Val and Brandon. We're told they just kissed and it was bad and awkward and they knew right away it was silly! Nah, that's not what it looks like to me. And I don't believe for a second that after she'd been in heat for him for so long she'd just laugh it off. Not sure what happened between seasons to make them abandon whatever the plan was.

AGREE! No way would Brandon walk away from Val in that moment.

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, AndySmith said:

I dunno, as much as she drifted from the group, she was still friends with them mostly, even if she an Kelly were on-again off-again friends. And I never saw what they all did as a collective that was so bad. I mean, it isn't like they were all constantly plotting to ditch her whenever they could or make plans without her or whatever. She did seem to leave BH on good terms with just about everyone, once she went to London, even Kelly.

To a certain extent, all of them seemed to move away from each other that season, a little bit. In one episode, I think Steve even discusses it with either Kelly or Donna.

I do wonder what they would have done had SD not been booted off the show. Another season of the Brenda/Dylan/Kelly triangle? Keep Kelly moving onto Brandon, while Dylan and Brenda reunite? Would Dylan have been scammed and lost his money and goInsert other media ne on his downward spiral had Brenda stayed? Who knows, but it would have at been interesting to see where things would have gone with Brenda around.

Her and kelly didn't seem to be friends in college, Every scene kelly was with a friend was when she was with donna. Every time brenda and kelly were together, kelly was jealous over dylan. I love how she stole brenda's boyfriend and yet wanted dylan to drop brenda like a hot potato. Serves her right.

I feel like Kelly's face is the most stank face i've ever seen. Even though she thought kevin and suzanne were scammers, she was so nasty to erica. Fast forward to a scene where brenda was with erica and she was so sweet to her. Then kelly meets ray and automatically doesn't like him for no reason. She is always just being nasty to everyone. How all these guys want her and the girls want to be friends with her is beyond me.

Even though brenda got booted and I liked her character, the show did need a val. Val played her part really well. Gina was such an annoying version of her.

[AndySmith]

I never felt like she wanted Dylan to drop Brenda outright. Just not go running to her every time something happened, or least, not prioritize her over Kelly.

As far as "Every scene kelly was with a friend was when she was with donna"...I'm not sure that is completely accurate.

Hey, at least Kelly was right when it came to Suzanne and Kevin and Ray lol

Quote

Val played her part really well. Gina was such an annoying version of her.

On that, I will agree with you. Granted, the writing was so bad by the time Gina came along.

[TeeVee329]

15 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Val played her part really well. Gina was such an annoying version of her.

It didn't help that they basically Xeroxed Val's entrance storyline - Gina is brought into the gang as a relative/family friend of a character, she seems nice on the surface, but is really scheme-y underneath, she zeroes in on Dylan, blah blah blah.

Man it's gonna be something to hear Tara and Sarah talk about her, and Matt, and Noah.

[Earmuffs Mom]

2 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Man it's gonna be something to hear Tara and Sarah talk about her, and Matt, and Noah.

They were all equally awful.  Gina is a poor man's Val.  Noah is a poor man's Dylan.  Matt is a poor man's Brandon.  They should have just ended the show with the wedding in Season 8 and let Brandon and Kelly ride off into the sunset together.  The recycling of characters and storylines gets very tedious after they graduate from college.

[AndySmith]

Quote

Man it's gonna be something to hear Tara and Sarah talk about her, and Matt, and Noah.

Assuming they can stay awake long enough to finish each episode.

[TeeVee329]

9 minutes ago, Earmuffs Mom said:

They were all equally awful.  Gina is a poor man's Val.  Noah is a poor man's Dylan.  Matt is a poor man's Brandon. 

I have a teeny soft spot for Matt.  Maybe because I've subsequently really liked Daniel Cosgrove whenever he pops up?  Or because I felt bad that Matt had to put up with suuuch snotty behavior from Kelly, who was constantly issuing moral judgments about him and his cases?

[JaggedLilPill]

3 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

Ah... but for Kelly, things are "complicated" and cheating isn't "that simple".  She and Dylan have "a connection" that honestly seems to be purely sexual. 

"Remember when we first cheated on Brenda?"

WTF? Who honestly says a sentence like that? But when Matt and Brandon cheat on her, Kelly gets all high and mighty.

I'll never understand the 'connection' they had. Their connection was mainly used to justify their actions in screwing people over while they were literally screwing each other. GAG.

On 1/30/2017 at 11:52 AM, TeeVee329 said:

And isn't there a huge retcon about this moment down the line?  I remember something about Valerie and Kelly both having the flu and being stuck hanging around Casa Walsh and it coming out that Kelly stopped by that day and "ruined Val's one chance with Brandon" or some such stupidness.

Yep!

Way to change the story yet again. Val did everything apparently to get Brandon to sleep with her, but it didn't work.

Then again, I guess I can't fault the writers too much in forgetting what happened a few seasons earlier since they can't even keep track of what happens in the same season re: Val's family. She goes from having younger siblings to no siblings. 

[AndySmith]

The problem with Matt was that I never saw him as his own character. He just felt like a plot device to keep Kelly and Dylan apart.

[Jax7917]

I liked matt actually, and loved that he initially was interested in donna and NOT kelly. Should've stuck to his guns.

Gina was beautiful and was fine as an actress, but what an annoying character she had to play.

Noah was blah.. Him and donna as a couple just dragged on foreverrrrrr

[Jax7917]

I would have loved for brandon to say to kelly when he cheated... "cheating isn't that simple, kel". It's complicated". Would've loved too see kelly be understanding about that

[TeeVee329]

Eh, I remember Brandon being a huge ass when he got caught cheating with that reporter chick.