S02.E13: Can Josh Take a Leap of Faith?

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Yeah, it's almost like she chooses men she knows will leave her, at least on a subconscious level. A married man is always a bad choice because the odds are he'll go back to his wife due to financial/legal/social issues, and if he doesn't go back to his wife, there's the fact that he's shown that he's willing to cheat and to leave his wife, so there's a big chance he'll do it again. One of the first things she learned about Greg was that he was unhappy in West Covina and wanted nothing more than to get out of there. Again, a bad choice if you're concerned about someone leaving you. Josh showed serious commitment issues in the way he bounced among women and got inappropriately intimate with Rebecca while planning his wedding to Valencia. It's a pretty big red flag when you're using the plan from what was supposed to be his wedding to someone else for your wedding to him, and it's not even outdated yet. She also didn't help matters where he was concerned by moving up the wedding so quickly. He might have been able to work out his issues more appropriately or else have broken up more appropriately without that time pressure.

Greg doesn't even really count as leaving her, since she was the one who ditched him while they were out together to run off with Josh (Greg was being a jerk who deserved to get ditched, but running off to have sex with his best friend is beyond the kind of ditching he deserved). They weren't actually together when he left town. She just wanted him at that time because she couldn't have him and Josh was being wishy-washy.

Though I have to say, I'm intrigued by this twist of the crazy being literal. I'm a fan of musicals and romantic comedies, but I still have to admit that the heroines often come across as not right in the head, even as their antics are supposedly "cute." It's interesting to see that dealt with honestly, while still having the musical numbers and cuteness.

I don't think it's "almost like" that - I think it IS that, and that's what Dr. Akopian was trying to get across. Rebecca's father leaving wasn't her fault, but the fact that she's still choosing unavailable men and sabotaging her own life (arson?!) is her responsibility to figure out and stop doing. She's deeply, seriously unwell. I think it'll be interesting to see how far Paula goes with this because remember, she doesn't know the depth of Rebecca's mental illness. She'd been good this season about setting boundaries and I can see why literally in the moment when Rebecca looked like she was suicidal, she'd agree to anything, but I think as Rebecca starts to really unravel, Paula will start to fall back. Things are going to get very dark.

Josh won't become a priest. Come on.

Darryl, WTF? You have a hot young boyfriend who loves you and your kid. Why not just be in that relationship?

Unpopular opinion: I didn't like Rebecca's wedding dress. Never did. Not a good shape for her and I hated the bow on the back. Actually, I think most of her clothes are unflattering - she chooses boatnecks and crew necks a lot, which are generally unflattering for women with large busts (speaking from experience). The bridesmaids looked great though. Paula should always wear that color. There was a shot of her in front of a window and the sun made her hair look stunning.

I wondered about the theme song this season because "I can't be held accountable for my actions" is a weird line, but I didn't think they'd go there with it! Well done, show!

[theatremouse]

12 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

I feel like so much happened this episode that I need to rewatch it.  Actually, I'd like to rewatch the whole season and see how it was put together from the beginning now that I know the end.  Anyone know how long it will be before it shows up on Netflix?

S2 will be on Netflix starting the 11th.

I really enjoyed that this show "went there" and, for me, it did it more than just the last scene. It was dark but in a good real way, which I think has always been underlying most of the show.  I love Rachel Bloom. I also, even with a lot of the darkness in this one, laughed outloud about five times. Solid, solid writing.

I don't remember the exchange but everything Josh said right before Rebecca's father said "you mean a conversation?" as he was saying all that my immediate thoughts were "this is most Josh Chan thing Josh Chan has ever said". I loved that moment. And the bribe lady calling out Trent.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think Rebecca is a "bad girl" in the classic soap sense, because she's sabotaging herself. Her actions affect other characters, of course, but she's not out for revenge. (Or hasn't been until the end of this episode.) Rebecca hasn't been trying to right some giant wrong that's been done to her by someone else.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on the 'bad girl.'  The reason I said telenovela over soap operas is because soap operas do have the main 'bad girl.'  Sometimes they are THE lead like Erica Kane or Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald but still, there's usually a 'good' heroine to balance things out. Telenovelas typically have one main female player and she's rarely the one who goes off the deep end like Rebecca does.  And the reason I say villain is because of her "I will get revenge" moment.

8 hours ago, AllyB said:

But again, Paula doesn't know that Rebecca was genuinely contemplating suicide. She knows far, far less about Rebecca than we do. She certainly doesn't know that she's mentally unstable, she adores her as a daughter and also looks up to her on many levels.

I think Paula knows.  Not the extent but she looked very scared for Rebecca at the cliff's edge.  And she was with Rebecca during some of her crazier season 1 moments.  Paula self-checked eventually so I think she realized it was not the greatest.  Ever since Rebecca got engaged, Paula has been more S1 Paula it seems.

Josh should have told Rebecca to her face.  But, I also feel like his move is mitigated by the fact that Rebecca pretty much took over the wedding and pushed him out from when it was going to take place to the planning. He should have told her but I also get his effort to pull himself out of the mess.  I wonder if the theme of this show is going to be Rebecca falling for men who are also screwed up but who eventually save themselves.

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Though I have to say, I'm intrigued by this twist of the crazy being literal. I'm a fan of musicals and romantic comedies, but I still have to admit that the heroines often come across as not right in the head, even as their antics are supposedly "cute."

So much truth. 

Quote

It cracked me up that Adam Kaufman played another skeezy guy, because I always think of him as Parker from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I remember him from a Hallmark Hall of Fame movie called Loving Leah.  In fact, I'm watching it now because of his appearance yesterday.

Darryl's leap to having a kid was kind of big but I could kind of see where he got that.  White Josh said he didn't understand marriage but did get having kids together. Then he and Madison were cute together and Darryl being Darryl thought this would be a good next step. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Irlandesa

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think Paula knows.  Not the extent but she looked very scared for Rebecca at the cliff's edge.  And she was with Rebecca during some of her crazier season 1 moments.  Paula self-checked eventually so I think she realized it was not the greatest.  Ever since Rebecca got engaged, Paula has been more S1 Paula it seems.

I think Paula definitely knew that Rebecca's suicide consideration was real.  She obviously doesn't know the extent of Rebecca's problems, but she looked frightened when Rebecca was pondering jumping.  I also agree that Paula seems to have lost some of the growth she showed earlier this season.  It's interesting.  Paula is probably the "mom" Rebecca wishes she had, but she clearly is not the mom Rebecca actually needs. 

Quote

That said, I wonder how Hector's relationship with his mother would appear if Hector was a young woman. The friendship shared by many tv mother-daughter pairings, like The Gilmore Girls, are seen as mostly positive. Why can't a mother and son enjoy a close adult friendship in a similar way?

 

 

I think Gilmore Girls occasionally acknowledged that Rory and Lorelai's relationship wasn't the healthiest.   I think parents and children can very much enjoy close adult friendships.  With Hector, it's written as though he and his mother are crutches for one another.  Hector is what, nearly 30, living at home and has his mother still taking care of his needs.  We've seen him bail out of events to hang out with his mom.  His "date" for the wedding is his mother.  That doesn't seem like a good way for either of them to live.  Now that doesn't mean Hector is a bad person, or that he's not an enjoyable character.  It only means he and his mother probably don't have the healthiest set up.       

[Rinaldo]

Obvious thing to say I guess, but what we learned in this episode finally connected some of the dots between a one-summer crush on Josh (plus, of course, her issues with parents) and the 30ish overmedicated miserable workaholic we saw at the start of the series. I so admire how thoroughly this whole series has been planned out.

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, dungeonwriter said:

Could you name some instances in season 1? I'm curious to see an expert's point of view. Because seriously, it no longer makes sense for Rebecca's mum to let her move halfway across the country without thinking she was relapsing badly, and needed another intervention. 

I would never call myself an expert, mostly because I generally work on abstract policy and legal issues. However, I do have to get down to patient level info from time to time. If I had to specify, I'd say season 1 episode 1 because Rebecca's anosognosia is out of control. I'd also add episode 4 and from the moment that Rebecca organizes the bus trip to the beach. Rebecca dumping her medications down the drain is a classic sign of individuals with a serious and persistent mental illness. They feel better and no longer acknowledge that they have a mental illness. Episode 4 is where Rebecca goes out on a date with Greg, but sleeps with that random. And then after the beach, Rebecca spends a ton of money, time, and emotional effort on manipulating Josh into liking her.

[Empress1]

14 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I would never call myself an expert, mostly because I generally work on abstract policy and legal issues. However, I do have to get down to patient level info from time to time. If I had to specify, I'd say season 1 episode 1 because Rebecca's anosognosia is out of control. I'd also add episode 4 and from the moment that Rebecca organizes the bus trip to the beach. Rebecca dumping her medications down the drain is a classic sign of individuals with a serious and persistent mental illness. They feel better and no longer acknowledge that they have a mental illness.

I have a relative with bipolar disorder and he's been in this spiral for literally decades. He started self-medicating with drugs and alcohol in his teens, before he was diagnosed, and slipped into addiction. Once he was diagnosed he got on meds and he's been sober for a very long time, but constantly cycles between taking his meds, feeling good so he thinks he doesn't need his meds anymore, and breaking down without them. (He's put his parents, who are in their 80s now - he's in his 50s - through a LOT.) Rebecca is in that cycle now, I think.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Empress1

[theatremouse]

One thing I'm remembering now that bothered me in the moment was Dr. A. She clearly realizes Rebecca has very very serious issues she has not be able to even remotely scratch the surface of yet...and she's been shown to be clearly frustrated at Rebecca basically foiling both their attempts to help Rebecca deal. And I know before now it was sort of a little bit of comic relief how Rebecca would sort of just...leave abruptly... but it especially stood out to me in this one when Rebecca started to go, Dr. A didn't even get up. I'm not an expect so there may be a very deliberate reason she's being fairly passive, and I'm not saying she ought to have run after Rebecca or grabbed her or anything...but she didn't even stand up. I remember it really struck me in that moment when she was telling her not to go and then the camera stayed on her looking frustrated but I was just like...you did even move an inch to get get to stay.

I don't remember having that obvious a moment before where I felt like she actually wasn't really trying to help. Might've just been the edit. Maybe we don't usually have her in frame the whole time. I don't know but it stuck with me.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

This was a pitch perfect, funny, dark, terrifying episode with a great climax and a great promise of what a third season might look like. I didn't actually think they'd go for actual revenge plots with Rebecca, but I am interested in what they will do with it and how they will subvert the "scorned woman" trope.

Yes to all of this.  The metal wedding song Rebecca and Paula did really presaged the tone.  Not a lovely wedding at all, really dark and twisted. 

I will say that the show has never been coy about Rebecca's mental issues.  I think on some level as viewers we push them aside  -- maybe subconsciously --  to concentrate on the comedy because the idea of Rebecca being really unstable just doesn't sit comfortably  in the setting of the show.  So I am not surprised really that it took us there, but then I kinda am. 

Everyone gets kudos to their reaction when they learned Josh wasn't coming, especially Rebecca (who really looked liked she was losing it) and Paula (her whisper threat of taking Josh's husky limbs and tearing them apart was perfect).  I also loved the cut away to Heather's scream. 

The wedding was really beautiful.  The venue is spectacular.  The bridesmaids dresses were really pretty -- good touch having Josh's sisters be bridesmaids along side Heather.  Valencia and Heather make a good comedy duo.  And I loved Hector's mother covering his eyes when it looked like Rebecca was gonna jump.

Very much looking forward to season 3.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

I don't remember having that obvious a moment before where I felt like she actually wasn't really trying to help.

I think not getting up doesn't mean she doesn't want to help.  I think she does want to help Rebecca but therapy is one of those things where the patient is really going to have to want it for it to work.

[MrsR]

The last shot. The one where the helicopter zooms out.  It's Rebecca and Paula holding hands like a bride and groom with their friends standing up for them.

Brilliant.

 

PS: Remember when Josh and Naomi bonded and became buddies? Everyone thought it was adorable.

Edited February 5, 2017 by MrsR

[theatremouse]

32 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think not getting up doesn't mean she doesn't want to help.  I think she does want to help Rebecca but therapy is one of those things where the patient is really going to have to want it for it to work.

Fair, but I wasn't suggesting she didn't want to help. I meant it literally about her not moving an inch. I thought that was an interesting acting choice. I appreciate the patient needs to want it, but it was jarring to me hearing the words and tone of "don't leave" juxtaposed with the body language of sitting still in a chair. That's really what I was trying to get at.

[Trishelle]

I love how Rebecca's dad calls his own daughter crazy and then stalks off disgustedly WITH THE MONEY SHE JUST GAVE HIM. That's some master's-level dirtbaggery.

I don't love how unbalanced Darryl and WhiJo's relationship is. White Josh seems perfectly happy to be dating Darryl, but he seems like he'd be just as happy to be single. I'm not explaining this well, but I just don't get the impression that White Josh is as nearly as into Darryl as Darryl is into him. Darryl deserves someone who's like...excited about him.

[AllyB]

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I have a relative with bipolar disorder and he's been in this spiral for literally decades. He started self-medicating with drugs and alcohol in his teens, before he was diagnosed, and slipped into addiction. Once he was diagnosed he got on meds and he's been sober for a very long time, but constantly cycles between taking his meds, feeling good so he thinks he doesn't need his meds anymore, and breaking down without them. (He's put his parents, who are in their 80s now - he's in his 50s - through a LOT.) Rebecca is in that cycle now, I think.

I have a friend with bipolar disorder and her situation is very similar except that she was diagnosed as soon as she started showing symptoms as her mother also had bipolar which resulted in her suicide. My friend has decent control over her life when she is on her medication but they stunt her emotions and the longer she is on them the more unhappy she becomes. So she comes off them, feels great and if she can't be convinced back on to them, she ends up having the most terrifying manic episodes where she does some very, very scary and dangerous things. She had also developed a very unfortunate cycle where she dates guys who encourage her to come off her meds because they are drug addicts and see her as an easy source of pills.

Comparing her life to Rebecca's I do have to wonder what the hell Naomi was thinking pushing her down the career path she was on. The long, long hours expected of lawyers in her New York office are usually nothing but dangerous for someone with Rebecca's problems. Even her pre-Nathaniel job at Whitefeather and Associates may have been too much for her. And in the real world her attitude toward her job would have gotten her fired as she was always skipping work or leaving early for various schemes. Knowing that Rebecca's perception of events is unreliable (Mrs H has always spoken) I have to wonder how the hearing in That Text Wasn't Meant For Josh really went. Did everyone really stop caring about the case and frantically help her work out what to do, eventually all agreeing that she should break and enter Josh's home just to delete it. I think we have to doubt that now. I can see everyone having a degree of sympathy for the situation and even agreeing to adjourn the hearing (though probably reluctantly) but they are very unlikely to have actually encouraged how she behaved.

[theatremouse]

9 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I love how Rebecca's dad calls his own daughter crazy and then stalks off disgustedly WITH THE MONEY SHE JUST GAVE HIM. That's some master's-level dirtbaggery.

My favourite part of that scene, actually possibly the whole episode was that she agreed with him. I can't recall precisely so there may be dialogue that contradicts this, but I think any episode that had any suggestion of calling Rebecca crazy outloud to her face she either immediately denied or explained it away or laughed it off. So when she acknowledged it straight it felt very game changey to me. It wasn't when she said she was going to destroy Josh that made me think "oh here we go" for S3. It was when her dad called her crazy and she said (I'm pretty sure) "yeah, lil bit". That was an oh shit moment for me. In the best way possible.

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I love how Rebecca's dad calls his own daughter crazy and then stalks off disgustedly WITH THE MONEY SHE JUST GAVE HIM. That's some master's-level dirtbaggery.

I don't love how unbalanced Darryl and WhiJo's relationship is. White Josh seems perfectly happy to be dating Darryl, but he seems like he'd be just as happy to be single. I'm not explaining this well, but I just don't get the impression that White Josh is as nearly as into Darryl as Darryl is into him. Darryl deserves someone who's like...excited about him.

I think it goes to PhD in dirtbaggery when you add in a) he did this knowing his daughter had just been stranded at the altar and b) he expected that he would get a return flight in Nathaniel's private plane. When Summa Cum Laude college graduate dirtbag Nathaniel is like, "Not a chance," you know dad went too far.

I think Darryl is an inherently insecure person, and dating WhiJo is inherently going to play on some of Darryl's insecurities about being older/less hot, about WhiJo having more sexual experience in general and about WhiJo possibly having an old-guy fetish. 

Of the characters in the show, I could see Darryl having a better shot at love with Maya, as two adorkable people. I would also like to see an acquaintanceship begin between WhiJo and Heather, as both have clear vision about things and seem to be unequivocally sane, good, smart, understanding, generally content and loyal. They are probably the only characters on the show I would love to know in the real world.

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, theatremouse said:

but it especially stood out to me in this one when Rebecca started to go, Dr. A didn't even get up.

Dr. Akopian can't force Rebecca to stay in a session. And until Rebecca shows that she might self-harm or hurt others, I don't think there's any Dr. Akopian can do except hope Rebecca decides to get serious about therapy.

11 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I love how Rebecca's dad calls his own daughter crazy and then stalks off disgustedly WITH THE MONEY SHE JUST GAVE HIM. That's some master's-level dirtbaggery.

He's a piece of work, isn't he? It makes me wonder about Naomi's issues with men.

11 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I just don't get the impression that White Josh is as nearly as into Darryl as Darryl is into him. Darryl deserves someone who's like...excited about him.

I think White Josh is as into Darryl as Darryl is into White Josh, but he's not as anxious about their relationship as Darryl is. White Josh also has been out for a lot longer than Darryl, so he feels more secure about things. White Josh has never given any indication he isn't in it for the long haul.

[txhorns79]

Quote

White Josh has never given any indication he isn't in it for the long haul.

I would disagree on to the extent that we've seen White Josh's prior line up of Daryl-like boyfriends.  That suggests to me that Daryl is one of many, not "the one."  And that isn't to say that Josh isn't committed to the current relationship, only that I don't think he is looking for the same kind of relationship Daryl is looking for.  

Quote

but it especially stood out to me in this one when Rebecca started to go, Dr. A didn't even get up.

I was thinking that was more about scene blocking.  It's easier to shoot the scene if Dr. A. remains stationary than to have her chase after Rebecca.  Also, Rebecca has been her patient for a while, so she probably knows running after Rebecca wouldn't help. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by txhorns79

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I don't love how unbalanced Darryl and WhiJo's relationship is. White Josh seems perfectly happy to be dating Darryl, but he seems like he'd be just as happy to be single. I'm not explaining this well, but I just don't get the impression that White Josh is as nearly as into Darryl as Darryl is into him. Darryl deserves someone who's like...excited about him.

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I think White Josh is as into Darryl as Darryl is into White Josh, but he's not as anxious about their relationship as Darryl is. White Josh also has been out for a lot longer than Darryl, so he feels more secure about things. White Josh has never given any indication he isn't in it for the long haul.

I agree. We learned that White Josh would often come to Darryl's office to visit him. He also showed a little bit of anxiety earlier because he hadn't met Darryl's daughter and they hadn't declared their love for one another.  But they met those relationship milestones so White Josh is comfortable with where they are.  They both were until WhiJo mentioned he didn't really want to get married. That flipped a switch in Darryl in that he suddenly wanted it and if not that, a larger commitment like a baby together. 

They just declared their love for one another.  They aren't even living together from what I can tell. Wanting to get married and have a baby together to me doesn't necessarily mean Darryl is more in love but rather really is more in need of locking him down.

I don't see the fact that WhiJo is a more even-keeled, chill human being in general and Darryl a more effusive and excitable guy as an inbalance in their relationship. 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Dr. Akopian can't force Rebecca to stay in a session. And until Rebecca shows that she might self-harm or hurt others, I don't think there's any Dr. Akopian can do except hope Rebecca decides to get serious about therapy.

Yep, there's nothing Dr. A. can do besides hope and make recommendations. Rebecca is an adult and her therapy isn't court-ordered. People quit therapy against their therapists' advice all the time. And as I've learned from my bipolar relative, having an adult involuntarily committed is very, very, very hard unless they pose a threat to themselves or others. (I wonder if we'd get there with whatever Rebecca plans to do to Josh?)

[AllyB]

And it's also worth remembering that Dr Akopian hasn't a clue of the extent of Rebecca's illness. She knows something is very wrong with her but she doesn't know that she set someone's house on fire and was institutionalised for it. She probably isn't assuming that Rebecca is such a potentially immediate danger to herself and potentially others so she doesn't feel the same urgency to stop/help her as she would if she knew what we now do.

[kitkat343]

Quote

Comparing her life to Rebecca's I do have to wonder what the hell Naomi was thinking pushing her down the career path she was on. The long, long hours expected of lawyers in her New York office are usually nothing but dangerous for someone with Rebecca's problems.

I agree with this completely.  And we need to also add the fact that she still insults Rebecca's father in front of her, and makes passive aggressive (and sometimes just aggressive) comments insulting her frequently.  That's pretty sad behavior if she had a stable child, but knowing that her daughter is dealing with a mental illness and still behaving this way is really awful.

Edited February 6, 2017 by kitkat343

[txhorns79]

Quote

I agree with this completely.  And we need to also add the fact that she still insults Rebecca's father in front of her, and makes passive aggressive (and sometimes just aggressive) comments insulting her frequently.  That's pretty sad behavior if she had a stable child, but knowing that her daughter is dealing with a mental illness and still behaving this way is really awful.

At this point, I don't know how much of the Naomi we see is real or just Rebecca's vision of how she acts.  From what we saw of the flashbacks, Naomi was there for her daughter in court and probably helped save her from jail.  Heck, we also saw Naomi try to cover for Rebecca with Josh when he was asking who Robert was.  We also saw last season Naomi make up a story to spare Rebecca's feelings when she went to visit her dad unexpectedly, and he wanted little to do with her.

As for insulting Rebecca's father in front of her, I'm entirely fine with that.  The guy is a sleazebag, and it's silly to try and protect Rebecca from the reality of how truly awful he is. 

[Nanrad]

On 2/4/2017 at 3:41 PM, AllyB said:

That said, I wonder how Hector's relationship with his mother would appear if Hector was a young woman. The friendship shared by many tv mother-daughter pairings, likeThe Gilmore Girls, are seen as mostly positive. Why can't a mother and son enjoy a close adult friendship in a similar way? Obviously Hector and his mother are played for laughs as minor characters, especially his mother who has only been in two scenes in this one episode. But from what we have seen of her she was open and friendly to Heather and keen to have her to dinner, suggesting she'd be supportive of Hector finding a romantic partner. And Heather, cynical Heather, seemed to genuinely approve of their dynamic. So I think MrsR might be right and Hector and his mother just do have a great, healthy relationship and we are just conditioned to find a mother-son pairing odd if they are so close.

People love Lorelei and Rory, but that's without deeply examining. Many have said, when you examine their dynamic, it's unhealthy. People just don't talk about it as much because their quirky and the show is centered around them.

[kitkat343]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

At this point, I don't know how much of the Naomi we see is real or just Rebecca's vision of how she acts.  From what we saw of the flashbacks, Naomi was there for her daughter in court and probably helped save her from jail.  Heck, we also saw Naomi try to cover for Rebecca with Josh when he was asking who Robert was.  We also saw last season Naomi make up a story to spare Rebecca's feelings when she went to visit her dad unexpectedly, and he wanted little to do with her.

That's a really good point.  I hadn't considered this possibility, and it makes a lot of sense.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Songs from this week:

What a Rush to Be a Bride:

Rebecca's Reprise:

[waving feather]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

At this point, I don't know how much of the Naomi we see is real or just Rebecca's vision of how she acts.  From what we saw of the flashbacks, Naomi was there for her daughter in court and probably helped save her from jail.  Heck, we also saw Naomi try to cover for Rebecca with Josh when he was asking who Robert was.  We also saw last season Naomi make up a story to spare Rebecca's feelings when she went to visit her dad unexpectedly, and he wanted little to do with her.

As for insulting Rebecca's father in front of her, I'm entirely fine with that.  The guy is a sleazebag, and it's silly to try and protect Rebecca from the reality of how truly awful he is. 

Regarding Naomi, I have an issue with how she encouraged Josh to propose to her and basically putting that idea in his head. She should know her daughter is not ready for marriage whatsoever and Josh is so easily lead he would do whatever people tell him to do.

[AlliMo]

I don't think that anyone else has brought this up, but we also learned something entirely new about Rebecca that the show has plenty of room to explore - Rebecca has a sibling who's never been mentioned until now, and that divorce was bitter, too.

Edited February 6, 2017 by AlliMo

[holly4755]

I see a different level of Crazy in rebecca. Her being lost in fantasy and believing romances  not being aware of reality seems to be her main problem, I hate to say it, but that almost seems a problem with many women, men have different kind of fantasies they get lost in.  As to the men in the show, I think not only did Greg see the self destructiveness in any relationship with her, he also was the only one who really loved her, but also saw they could not be together without destroying each other, at least for now. 

as to the professor and the arson, I do believed she blocked it out and others thought she got the help she needed.  If you function at work in results, a lot of people think you function completely.  People at work always thought I was sane because I looked the part (stockings, heels, business suits in blue, black, brown or grey). go figure. People at home knew better.  

[Zap]

I'm actually not convinced Naomi in court was first and foremost thinking of Rebecca's wellbeing, or this is the kind of mother who wants everything to be perfect and is both in denial of the gravity of Bec's issues, as well as trying the hardest to safe the family's name.

[Snarklepuss]

On 2/4/2017 at 11:19 PM, DearEvette said:

I will say that the show has never been coy about Rebecca's mental issues.  I think on some level as viewers we push them aside  -- maybe subconsciously --  to concentrate on the comedy because the idea of Rebecca being really unstable just doesn't sit comfortably  in the setting of the show.  So I am not surprised really that it took us there, but then I kinda am.

I agree.  We all knew that Rebecca had mental issues, but the level of darkness to which they have taken it is a bit much for me to accept and still see this as a comedy as opposed to a tragedy (and I don't think it qualifies as a tragicomedy either).  I don't see it as the best direction to go in for the type of show this is.  It's one thing to be unstable enough to want to get back at your ex in quirky, funny self defeating ways, and quite another to burn his house down.  Seeing Rebecca in that light is changing the lighthearted feel of the show into something more sinister and I'm not really loving that.

Speaking of that, how could Rebecca have committed arson, been institutionalized with mental illness and become a lawyer?  The bar exam has questions about that and it can be seen as a liability.  I would think it would be an even bigger liability if the mental illness resulted in something like arson.  Not buying that, really.

Josh is a complete commitment-phobe.  Often when faced with an impending commitment the commitment-phobe will find a way to avoid it by doing something drastic and make a last minute desperate promise to commit to someone/anything else.  That usually doesn't work out either.  I found that to be very realistic and not unlike Josh to do.  I would be very surprised if Josh ever actually became a priest.  I knew this wedding would never take place.  Interesting that it wasn't even Trent that was the cause of that in the end, though.

I'm not as satisfied with the direction the show is going in as some are.  The way this show has been changing its direction practically every episode makes me not trust that they'll even stay with this one very long anyway.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Speaking of that, how could Rebecca have committed arson, been institutionalized with mental illness and become a lawyer?  The bar exam has questions about that and it can be seen as a liability.  I would think it would be an even bigger liability if the mental illness resulted in something like arson.  Not buying that, really.

I think they said that Rebecca's conviction would be expunged from her record, as though it never happened, if she got mental health counseling.  It may be that she never told the examiners based on that idea, and being institutionalized wouldn't be a bar to getting a law license.   

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think they said that Rebecca's conviction would be expunged from her record, as though it never happened, if she got mental health counseling.

That's exactly what they said. I love that the writers knew that point had to be dealt with.

[Snarklepuss]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That's exactly what they said. I love that the writers knew that point had to be dealt with.

Yeah not sure I buy that that would happen IRL, but OK.

[Blakeston]

I don't think the writers were trying to depict Dr. Akopian as a particularly professional therapist. It seems like she pretty much gave up on helping Rebecca. A while back, she accepted that Rebecca only heard what she wanted to hear during their sessions, but she was willing to see her anyway in order to pay for a speedboat.

When Rebecca was close to making a breakthrough, Akopian was thrilled. But that was thwarted by Josh's proposal, and it looked like she gave up again.

As for the realism of Rebecca being accepted to Yale Law, and (presumably) the New York Bar, after committing a major act of arson? I have my doubts. Even if it was expunged from her record, a Harvard student being arrested for burning down a professor's home would have to have made the papers. And they check on applicants' backgrounds quite seriously.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think they said that Rebecca's conviction would be expunged from her record, as though it never happened, if she got mental health counseling.  It may be that she never told the examiners based on that idea, and being institutionalized wouldn't be a bar to getting a law license.   

They do background checks, but I can easily believe that a court and Harvard would be supportive of having her arson expunged from her record. She's a young white woman of decent means in her early twenties in a relationship with an older married professor. I'm sure this was her first brush with the criminal justice system. The professor knew that he shouldn't have been in a relationship with Rebecca. Realize that Rebecca is in his home and in his bedroom. She's not in his office, a car, or a hotel room. She's in his home, indicating that the relationship is sufficiently intimate that he's brought her to his home (or he's lazy, cheap, and indiscrete). Functionally, this is just as much a disaster for Harvard as it is for Rebecca. I'm sure they stepped in to recommend treatment over incarceration. The professor might have been censured or fired.

I feel for Dr. Akopian. I don't know that she has Rebecca's full medical history. It seems like she has Rebecca's medical records from NYC, but perhaps not from Massachusetts or Connecticut. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Blakeston]

59 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

They do background checks, but I can easily believe that a court and Harvard would be supportive of having her arson expunged from her record. She's a young white woman of decent means in her early twenties in a relationship with an older married professor. I'm sure this was her first brush with the criminal justice system. The professor knew that he shouldn't have been in a relationship with Rebecca. Realize that Rebecca is in his home and in his bedroom. She's not in his office, a car, or a hotel room. She's in his home, indicating that the relationship is sufficiently intimate that he's brought her to his home (or he's lazy, cheap, and indiscrete). Functionally, this is just as much a disaster for Harvard as it is for Rebecca. I'm sure they stepped in to recommend treatment over incarceration. The professor might have been censured or fired.

I absolutely think Harvard would have wanted to deal with the issue quietly. But from what we saw, Rebecca must have been arrested, and once it's been reported that you were arrested for arson, it's pretty tough to get into Yale Law School, or be admitted to the New York Bar (unless you can prove that nothing ever came of the arrest).

[HunterHunted]

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

I absolutely think Harvard would have wanted to deal with the issue quietly. But from what we saw, Rebecca must have been arrested, and once it's been reported that you were arrested for arson, it's pretty tough to get into Yale Law School, or be admitted to the New York Bar (unless you can prove that nothing ever came of the arrest).

It's not available in every state, but quite a few allow you to pend criminal charges while a defendant enters involuntary mental health treatment. After in patient treatment followed by a transition to outpatient treatment, those jurisdictions often drops the criminal charges. It's basically designed for people with their first psychiatric episode. I don't know how that may or may not be reported in Massachusetts or reported to the New York Bar, but it might be one of those that falls into somewhat negative but allowable.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Puts Herself First

The event we've been building to all season is finally here. It's like the big finale to a musical or something!

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

being arrested for burning down a professor's home would have to have made the papers.

Can someone clarify for me, I recall seeing her dropping a match on a pile of stuff, and I recall seeing her in the courtroom. I don't recall anything confirming she burned down the house? Certainly she set a fire in the house, and if it weren't put out promptly, it would have spread, but did the judge say specifically the house burned down or were severely damaged? Given it apparently was something the judge considered expunging if she got treatment, I got the impression, yes arson and yes stuff got burned, but not, like...major structural damage to the dwelling as a whole. I assumed the fire got put out before it turned into a full on rager given the consequences we were presented with. But it's totally possible I missed something in the episode that was more explicit about the extent of the fire.

[vixenbynight]

When Rebecca was close to making a breakthrough, Akopian was thrilled. But that was thwarted by Josh's proposal, and it looked like she gave up again.

I don't feel like Dr. Akopian "gave up again". I believe that she physically expressed her frustration in how close Rebecca was in actually letting herself be able to verbalize that by getting involved with all of these men, that revealed themselves to be unattainble, that she would always continue to be hurt, only to witness that potential breakthrough be yanked away by Josh proposing to Rebecca. 

I also believe that Dr. Akopian has no idea about the full extent of Rebecca's issues, her past incident with Robert or her expulsion from Harvard due to her breakdown. A part of Rebecca's mind had made the chose to forget about that incident.

I hope that Dr. Akopian is featured in season three, because Rebecca needs more help than what Paula, Heather and Valencia might be able to do for her. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Can someone clarify for me, I recall seeing her dropping a match on a pile of stuff, and I recall seeing her in the courtroom. I don't recall anything confirming she burned down the house? Certainly she set a fire in the house, and if it weren't put out promptly, it would have spread, but did the judge say specifically the house burned down or were severely damaged

I think she was charged with three counts of attempted(?) arson.  I guess she set or tried to set multiple fires?  It's not entirely clear if she actually burned anything down, but we do see flames (and not those on the side of her face) so she definitely had a fire going in his bedroom.   

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It's not available in every state, but quite a few allow you to pend criminal charges while a defendant enters involuntary mental health treatment. After in patient treatment followed by a transition to outpatient treatment, those jurisdictions often drops the criminal charges. It's basically designed for people with their first psychiatric episode.

People who have been through that typically still have to deal with the record of their arrest appearing in print. I guess there might be enough Rebecca Bunches in the world that it wouldn't be easily searchable, but it doesn't strike me as all that common a name.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

those on the side of her face

Amazing reference. A+.

Also, with respect to the bar exam, even if you've had something expunged, you are still supposed to disclose it to the bar examiners.  If you don't, you run the risk of them finding out about it (or one of your references referring to it) and then, as with so many things, the real issue becomes not the issue itself, but the cover-up and the lie about the issue itself.

A very good friend of mine had an incident during his younger years and it triggered a tremendous amount of scrutiny.

That said, I am willing to hand wave all of that, because I don't expect hyper-realism in my tv shows... especially one where people routinely break into song.

[dubbel zout]

If you have to disclose the record, what's the point of it being expunged in the first place? 

[Trishelle]

I wonder if the show's ever going to give us more backstory on Josh's time in New York. The more we learn about him, the more out of character a cross-country move without any of his friends or girlfriend looks.

And after watching him join the priesthood in response to the wedding pressure/anxiety, I almost suspect the writers are gonna make the NY move his way of escaping some other majorly stressful event.

[Black Knight]

On 2/4/2017 at 4:24 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My biggest regret about Rebecca's father is that she let him keep the check. I would have told he could leave as soon as he gave the check back.

(snip)

 

Legally, it does give you additional rights (a tax break, eligibility for health insurance, etc) but if those things aren't a concern then I understand not getting married. But that doesn't mean you have to trade one lifelong commitment for another. Can't Darryl and White Josh just be happily unmarried without a new kid? Darryl's kid is awesome and White Josh obviously adores her, so why isn't that enough? And realistically, how long have Darryl and White Josh been dating? A few months? I know they started dating at the end of S1, but I don't think a year has passed in the show's timeline. Slow your roll, Darryl!

I know Rebecca is focused on destroying Josh Chan, but hopefully she takes a minute away from that agenda to call her bank and stop the check.

As for Darryl, I can understand. He's older and has been married before. Someone like that, often when they meet someone they like, they want to settle down ASAP. They're not interested in just dating for a while. But Darryl should have recognized that White Josh is not in that same place.

Josh behaved horribly, but the one thing I did like was that he chose not to read Rebecca's file. I don't know if he actually thought this all out in his head, given that he's not the brightest, but at least subconsciously he understood that the file contains Rebecca's secrets and if she didn't tell him, she obviously doesn't want him to know. And if he wants to know and reading the file is the only way he can find out, then the relationship's not worth holding onto in the first place and so he doesn't actually need to know. As such, he was correct to leave the file unread and break up with Rebecca; of course, the way he actually went about the latter was inexcusable, cowardly, and maximized Rebecca's pain and humiliation.

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

If you have to disclose the record, what's the point of it being expunged in the first place? 

Having it expunged means that the average person won't know that it exists. Having to disclose the record to the bar examiners is meant to show that you are honest and complete with your background and therefore are likely to be honest and complete in your dealings with clients, judges and other attorneys. The question on most background reports is something like, "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" rather than "Have you ever been convicted of a crime that has not been expunged from your record?"

15 hours ago, Trishelle said:

I wonder if the show's ever going to give us more backstory on Josh's time in New York. The more we learn about him, the more out of character a cross-country move without any of his friends or girlfriend looks.

And after watching him join the priesthood in response to the wedding pressure/anxiety, I almost suspect the writers are gonna make the NY move his way of escaping some other majorly stressful event.

I thought it was pretty simple: he was vacationing in NY and happened to run into Becks. It's been a long time since I watched the pilot, so maybe there was something more to it that I missed.

[dubbel zout]

43 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Having it expunged means that the average person won't know that it exists. Having to disclose the record to the bar examiners is meant to show that you are honest and complete with your background and therefore are likely to be honest and complete in your dealings with clients, judges and other attorneys.

That makes sense, though I wonder if the expunged offense is held against you. That was my real question (which wasn't explicitly asked).

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think someone upstream said what I think to be true: it would be a case where the perceived coverup would be worse than the crime in some bar examiner's eyes. If someone said, "I had a lapse of judgment that led me to set my lover's home on fire, pleaded guilty to a felony and learned and grew as a result" that might very well seem more reasonable than "Nope, never convicted. THAT YOU CAN PROVE."