S15.E02: Richard Haass, Eva Longoria, Grover Norquist, Tim Ryan, John Avlon

[GHScorpiosRule]

 Foreign policy expert Richard Haass, Actress Eva Longoria, Tax-Reform Advocate Grover Norquist, Ohio Rep. Tim Ryan, Journalist John Avlon

UGH. Norquist. I can't remember though, if he's one of the ones who keeps interrupting and talking over other people.

I'm so happy that Eva is on the panel and not the mid-show guest. She's smart, passionate, and intelligent.

[HelenBaby]

Yeah, Norquist loves the smell of his own farts. I probably won't watch until the New Rules portion.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really loathe Norquist. All he could do was blame Obama, and could never complete his sentences, and the sound of his voice is just chalk on blackboards. And his stance that what Trump is doing is "progress" just sickened me. And I appreciated the booing.

Ryan got in a few good shots about Christie and Nosferatu, as well.

I really wish I could have heard more from Eva, though.

Norquist did look as if he were constipated throughout the show. Why does Bill keep asking him to come on the show?

[maraleia]

Bill's last new rule slamming intersectionality and cultural sensitivity and his refusal in bringing up the Muslim ban and halt on refugees that Orange Hitler signed today are what makes me stabby about him.

He's willfully ignorant about a lot of things and I thought I'd give him another chance but he's still the same asshole from before.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, maraleia said:

Bill's last new rule slamming intersectionality and cultural sensitivity and his refusal in bringing up the Muslim ban and halt on refugees that Orange Hitler signed today are what makes me stabby about him.

Agree. I really thought he was saving that for New Rules, but nope. Then I thought he'd address it during Overtime. Nope. Very disappointed.

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Bill's last new rule slamming intersectionality and cultural sensitivity and his refusal in bringing up the Muslim ban and halt on refugees that Orange Hitler signed today are what makes me stabby about him.

Same. I'm not saying that we should walk around looking to be offended all the time, but let's not act as if cultural sensitivity/cultural appropriation is made up. What bugs me further is when white people want to tell POC what to be upset about. I don't think Michael Keaton is racist because he mixed up Fences and Hidden Figures, but I doubt La La Land and Manchester by the Sea would've been conflated. It's just things that make you go hmm.

A better new rule would've been for progressives and Democrats to circle the wagons around their candidates instead of giving likeability purity tests. Republicans irk me, but I'll always give them credit for getting shit done and coming out to vote in strong numbers. Democrats have to be coaxed to vote, not so with Republicans. They get what's at stake. That would've made more sense instead of this overly PC, y'all listening to too much Ralph Tresvant Sensitivity and need to grow some balls rant that he does every season.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Sheenieb

[ruby24]

Plus, it just doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of all the horrifying, sickening things that we're watching happen this week, I really don't think now's the time to make "political correctness" a huge battle that the left has to fight itself on.

[Maherjunkie]

Maybe not good timing, but still truth to power.  I felt the same way about those ridiculous examples he listed.  The truth is there is still not a whole lot of films with huge black casts so it is a reasonable mistake.  Sensitivity is good, but there is such a thing as being hypersensitive.

[maraleia]

If he's so hopped up on PC culture being a problem then I never want to hear him talk about recreational weed ever again. He's the epitome of a limo liberal who refuses to learn new things.

[Maherjunkie]

I'm sure he is all for that but that reaction to Steve Martin was ridiculous.

[Victor the Crab]

1 hour ago, Maherjunkie said:

Maybe not good timing, but still truth to power.  I felt the same way about those ridiculous examples he listed.  The truth is there is still not a whole lot of films with huge black casts so it is a reasonable mistake.  Sensitivity is good, but there is such a thing as being hypersensitive.

 

43 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

I'm sure he is all for that but that reaction to Steve Martin was ridiculous.

FUCK THAT GODDAMN SHIT OUT OF THAT SPHINCTER BILL SAYS IS HIS MOUTH!!!!!

Bill trying to lay blame on Drumph winning the presidency because some disagree with the name Washington Redskins is why he deserves to be seen as a divisive ignorant turd amongst the left no matter how some people pathetically try and parse it down to defend his miserable ass.

Bill, you don't goddamn fucking speak for liberals about being on their side while wanting to say foul, ignorant stuff about certain groups of people, like your shitty reaction to Jim Nabors coming out of the closet, and pathetically excuse all of it in the name of comedy. All you do is give aid and comfort to those on the right who want to freely say shit like "nigger" and "faggot" and who want to make life miserable for those that follow a religion you vehemently oppose, and not have to feel any shame for saying that. Somebody on his panel needs to physically get into his butter face and tell him how huge an unwiped asshole he is about how his arrested adolescent behavior is a detriment to real progressivism.

[Maherjunkie]

I have never heard him say he supports free rein on saying those words.  I think he took exception to the Redskin example because many said they don't care.

[Victor the Crab]

52 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

I have never heard him say he supports free rein on saying those words.  I think he took exception to the Redskin example because many said they don't care.

One survey. One! Fucking! Survey! Bill will find ANYTHING that fits his hypocritical worldview and pimp it to his motherfucking content.

[navelgazer]

Eva Longoria and Tim Ryan were useless lumps.  It was all Norquist until John Avlon, a reporter, showed up.  

Could you do us all a favor, Bill, please?  Never have that bloviating BS spewer on as a panelist again.  First interview, last guest, but not on the panel, 'mkay?  Norquist is famous for saying he wants to get the federal government down small enough so that it can be drowned in a bathtub.  He makes ReThugs sign a pledge of never increasing taxes, so when the Thugs get power, they're perfectly happy to put everything on the credit card.  

I am so sick of living behind the looking glass where nothing is real anymore.  

[Sparger Springs]

6 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

I have never heard him say he supports free rein on saying those words.  I think he took exception to the Redskin example because many said they don't care.

That survey was given to people who said they had Indian blood. Which in my experience is 85% of the American public.

[DollEyes]

7 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

 

FUCK THAT GODDAMN SHIT OUT OF THAT SPHINCTER BILL SAYS IS HIS MOUTH!!!!!

Bill trying to lay blame on Drumph winning the presidency because some disagree with the name Washington Redskins is why he deserves to be seen as a divisive ignorant turd amongst the left no matter how some people pathetically try and parse it down to defend his miserable ass.

Bill, you don't goddamn fucking speak for liberals about being on their side while wanting to say foul, ignorant stuff about certain groups of people, like your shitty reaction to Jim Nabors coming out of the closet, and pathetically excuse all of it in the name of comedy. All you do is give aid and comfort to those on the right who want to freely say shit like "nigger" and "faggot" and who want to make life miserable for those that follow a religion you vehemently oppose, and not have to feel any shame for saying that. Somebody on his panel needs to physically get into his butter face and tell him how huge an unwiped asshole he is about how his arrested adolescent behavior is a detriment to real progressivism.

Bingo. I agree that some liberals are too sensitive about the wrong things sometimes, but not all the time. Now is definitely not the time for liberals and Democrats to be fighting amongst themselves. Contrary to Bill's opinion, it is possible to be both culturally sensitive and disgusted by Trump and his minions at the same time. 

Shut up, Grover Norquist. 

[Mr. R0b0t]

I thought it was borderline reckless to have Norquist on and not mention this quote of his from 2012,

"All we have to do is replace Obama. ...  We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don't need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. ... We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don't need someone to think it up or design it. The leadership now for the modern conservative movement for the next 20 years will be coming out of the House and the Senate. [...]

Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared."

No doubt Trump is awful, but let's not pretend that the things he's done all week aren't straight out of the GOP wet dream playbook. It's sickening....and for what it's worth I would watch the hell outta La La Land by the Sea.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Mr. R0b0t
human

[iMonrey]

I was not aware that 2 million voters were stricken from the voter rolls in Ohio (if Tim Ryan is to be believed). Wow. That could have made all the difference, right there. IMO voter suppression is the number one issue of our time.

What can you say about Grover Norquist or any other Republican who thinks the government is "stealing" our money? Are they willfully ignorant about how taxes work and what they pay for, like schools, roads and police? Or do they think all those things should be privatized? I noticed every time he was asked specifically about Trump he dodged the question and tried to slam Obama or Clinton instead. Typical.

John Avlon rightly pointed out that the whole purpose of the electoral college was to prevent someone like Trump from getting elected. So since it's no longer serving the purpose for which it was created, we need to abolish it.

[attica]

13 hours ago, maraleia said:

his refusal in bringing up the Muslim ban

Another reason to bring up the Muslim ban was that Grover was on the panel! Grover, whom the Breitbart crowd has smeared with the Muslim Brotherhood brush, and who still defends WH policies. Mind boggling.

[Victor the Crab]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What can you say about Grover Norquist or any other Republican who thinks the government is "stealing" our money? Are they willfully ignorant about how taxes work and what they pay for, like schools, roads and police? Or do they think all those things should be privatized? I noticed every time he was asked specifically about Trump he dodged the question and tried to slam Obama or Clinton instead. Typical.

Selfish, greedy fucks who want to control everyone's lives is what they are. And people who vote for them are too dim to see that. But hey, political correctness sez Bill the Fucking Asshole.

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I really loathe Norquist.

Like Bill was saying, there needs to be sane republicans and I would like them to actually come on the show. I know someone like Norquist isn't going to fundamentally agree with Bill; I'll concede that "we're in a facist state can come of as a little much," nevermind that what *elected officials* called Obama and Mrs. Obama for *8* years, but the 30-something year old canard of "cut taxes, deregulate = growth" again and again and again and again. If that's all you're going to do for the next 4 years, then go somewhere else. 

I really don't agree about 'democrats need to go out to rural America' because I'm still banging my fist on the desk that butthurt white dudes are just scared of everything and mad because they think they deserve something because 'that's how it was' or whatever. Going on "Laura Ingram" isn't going to solve anything because she's a condescending hateful person who makes fun of anything that hurts these dudes delicate fee-fees. They voted against their own interests, they have to lie in it. Show them that those coals jobs didn't come back, but you could help them out with some training and they can get one of the many jobs in solar, for example. Make them admit that the potential cabinet is littered with Goldman-Sachs alums. Ask them why they don't have healthcare anymore. I mean, give me a break. We have to genuflect to rural America because they're more American than someone who grew up in San Francisco? I'm sorry your provincial attitude makes you scared to drive more than 50 miles from your house, but people protesting Trump are "snowflakes." Ok. 

The more subtle point about the muslim ban is that the countries 'banned' weren't involved in any terror incidents. The wife of the guy from San Bernadino, for example, is from a country not on the banned list. So the whole thing is stupid. 

"Alternative facts" is now the "I'm entitled to my opinion" when you just want to end an argument when you know you're wrong. They aren't; you aren't. Stop it. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by ganesh

[ganesh]

Voter suppression is nothing short of a scourge on democracy. This whole "investigation" is simply just a con to misdirect attention from the real problem. 

[Uncle Benzene]

17 minutes ago, ganesh said:

there needs to be sane republicans and I would like them to actually come on the show.

Yeah. Needs moar unicorns and leprechauns too. ;)

I do agree with and love the other 99% of your post, ganesh, but I'm afraid the "sane republicans" (to whatever extent they actually existed before then) went extinct the moment Trump got the nomination. One might choose to take them at their word with regard to the #NeverTrump stuff before the convention, but even assuming that was the least bit genuine in the first place, it immediately went by the wayside the minute Trump became the only bullet left in their chamber. They had neither the power nor the will to resist, and instead willingly chose to kneel and kiss the ring. Even if one chooses to believe the current conspiracy theories that once the GOP wrings whatever juice they can out of Trump, they'll immediately turn on him and run him out on a rail themselves, that's only going to result in their installing the kind of guy they REALLY want in the office... Mike Fuckin' Pence. Guh.

At this point "Sane Republicans" are, at best, an extinct species which actually existed on Earth at some point in the not-too-distant past. But they're probably more than anything mythical creatures who exist only in legend.

[ganesh]

Graham actually said "knock it off" about the "illegal votes", so some people are saying something. I actually think Trump is going to have a hard time with Congress because no one knows anything that's going on. I really don't think much is going to get done at all. All these executive orders are open to legal challenges just like with Obama too. Trump doesn't realize that you can't push senators around either to do your bidding. Maybe on appointments, but even then, you only need 4 to vote down. 

And, Grover, stop it with the "We don't know; we should look into it." Yes, we do know. There's more of a chance of being struck by lighting twice than actual voter fraud in all elections over the past 17 years. 

I hate that mealy-mouthed "we don't know" garbage. Hey, we don't really know the extent that Russia was involved in the election. Are we going to look into that too, or does that not fit your delusional narrative? You know what? Let's investigate. Let's also report each week how much money is being spent on this investigation, let's publish the findings, let's get experts to peer review the study to confirm it's legit, and let's record the total spent. Then, when that's all said and done, we will have total conviction that 3 million more people voted for Clinton than Trump and we can say with absolute certainty that the results of the election are in no way a mandate. Because we just don't know, Grover. So is that what you want really really want to do? 

I think a conservative pov should be on the panel each week, but really if they're going to spout the same routine all the time, then Bill should just not have any on until he can find one that's independently minded. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by ganesh

[maraleia]

After what I'm seeing on twitter today it was unconscionable for Maher not to bring up the Muslim ban executive order. He is an asshole and I think we should stop watching so he gets thrown off the air. He is useless unlike Oliver, Bee and Noah who are actually challenging Trump on his horrible actions/behaviors.

[attica]

I'm sure there are sane republicans. I just don't think any of them have any courage. Would that they'd prove me wrong.

[Duke Silver]

Sane Republicans don't get elected, IMO.

Also, the vast majority of them are now Independents or conservative Democrats.

[ganesh]

Grover was right when he said, 'you're not going to win elections by talking about how you're losing them.' However, Grover, Trump 'won a state like North Carolina' because the Voting Rights Act was gutted and allowed for a myriad of voter suppression laws to be passed. 

[b2H]

Well, all these comments have been helpful enough that this episode gets the delete button.  Bill needs to find his game again.  Maybe this election has really messed him up as it has many of us.  He has never really controlled his panel and someone like Norquist will overrun Bill and leave him in the dust.

[Cyranetta]

Quote

And, Grover, stop it with the "We don't know; we should look into it." Yes, we do know. There's more of a chance of being struck by lighting twice than actual voter fraud in all elections over the past 17 years. 

I could wholeheartedly agree with the idea of a thorough investigation of voting "fraud" (since it might, even by accident, lay bare the voting rights abuses) except for two factors: 1st and most importantly) who would be doing the investigating — in this new era of official "alternative facts" it would be too easy just to issue a report of "alternative data" made of of whole cloth, and 2) the likely appalling expense of such a project, probably all siphoned to "alternative" data collection entities. I suspect Grover would overlook that use of taxes.

[ganesh]

32 minutes ago, b2H said:

Well, all these comments have been helpful enough that this episode gets the delete button.

The congressmen was actually good. The first interview and the in panel guest was good too. I'd recommend watching that at least. Bill actually made some good points prior to new rules. Toward the end he let out an exasperated "Grooooverrrrr" which was unintentionally hilarious. 

What would be nice, if Bill can't actually get a 'sane republican' is more actual journalists on the show. For one, we'll get informed opinions, for the other, Bill might learn something. 

16 minutes ago, Cyranetta said:

I could wholeheartedly agree with the idea of a thorough investigation of voting "fraud" (since it might, even by accident, lay bare the voting rights abuses) except for two factors: 1st and most importantly) who would be doing the investigating — in this new era of official "alternative facts" it would be too easy just to issue a report of "alternative data" made of of whole cloth, and 2) the likely appalling expense of such a project, probably all siphoned to "alternative" data collection entities. I suspect Grover would overlook that use of taxes.

That's why I added the 'peer review' caveat to address that very real problem. There's just too many people in congress who wouldn't let sketchy data sources slide, plus, as in the case with Clinton, the minority party has the freedom to issue their own report. I honestly don't think any investigation is likely to happen simply because alluding to "something going on" carries more influence on the narrative than anything concrete, precisely because political opponents will have the same resources, hearings would be public, etc. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Another disappointment was Bill not saying there's no such thing as "Alternative Facts." Just call it for what it really is: LIES.

I really wish that Ryan and Eva and Avlon had used the word LIES, instead of saying "alternative facts." I'm sure it was meant to be mocking, but I wanted and needed them to say there is no fucking such thing.  But then again the Crypt Keeper* who coined the phrase is Bill's long time friend, so maybe that's why he didn't say anything.???

*Kelly Ann Conway

[ganesh]

14 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm sure it was meant to be mocking, but I wanted and needed them to say there is no fucking such thing.

And that's the whole problem. How many times have we said that the right controls the narrative so hard? Alternative facts is not a thing. Yes, Bill is a comedian and you makes jokes about it, but shut it down on the panel. There's no such thing as 'fake news' either. Don't normalize this. Call it what it is. Propaganda. 

[maraleia]

After seeing all these protests (wish I could've gone to the one at O'Hare but I'm not feeling well) today about the Muslim ban Bill can go fuck himself even more than usual for not bringing it up. Face it he's Islamaphobic to the core.

People with green cards and visas are getting turned away as well as an Oscar nominated filmmaker from Iran who was set to come here for the awards ceremony.

[attica]

Glad to see the ban stayed so quickly. Yo, yo, ACLU! I see their tip jar is filling up tonight, too, which is good. In the words of Dan Savage, we should donate to them because we're gonna have to lawyer the fuck up a lot in the coming timespan.

There was a moment on the panel that I thought would get more hay made of, but everybody got distracted by something. Grover was just winding up, and he mentioned 'the largest part of the budget is entitlements.' I think the audience thought what I thought, and was preemptively reacting to his lot wanting to do away with them altogether and let all of us live on cat food in the short retirements we'd have (since we'd be so quickly dead without Medicare anyway), but the conversation moved on. And I was denied the opportunity to vent more spleen at my screen. ::shakes fist::

[iMonrey]

Quote

there needs to be sane republicans and I would like them to actually come on the show.

Norquist does not qualify simply because he refuses to address any criticisms of Trump. A "sane" Republican will admit Trump's faults, not dodge the question by slamming Obama.

Quote

Grover was just winding up, and he mentioned 'the largest part of the budget is entitlements.'

Just the use of the term "entitlements" belies an attitude that undeserving people are living large on the government dole. It's such a heavy handed term in place of "social welfare." The sheer cynicism in the idea that the government is "stealing" money from good, hard-working Americans and giving it to lazy people who don't want to work is the basis of the Republican platform. That's the real appeal to those "white working class" voters. Even among those who are receiving some sort of government subsidy themselves. This pervasive, insidious idea that minorities and illegals are being given free money is what convinced so many "white working class" voters to vote for Trump.

[wknt3]

FFS Bill. I don't understand how someone who clearly understands the importance of organizing, of state and local elections, of Supreme Court appointments, and compromising when necessary is so willing to worry about PC and elitism and not follow up on that line of thought. Yes more Americans agree with us. So why do we lose? Because the other side is better organized! You were just talking about this! When are you going to start talking about this in depth instead of bringing it up and then moving on to whining about being called on for your sexist nonsense? When are you going to talk about Obama was a brilliant practical politician and organizer? Or if you think it's all about talking to the middle class and selling better maybe stop bashing Bill Clinton who is the master of the approach you're advocating? I would add that if he's going to talk trash about shallow reflexive liberalism it might not be the week to start in pushing his usual nonsense about food, medicine, etc. I mean if you want to talk about how groupthink has turned a reasonable principle into something that alienates the real Murrica maybe you need to walk the walk too?

Edited January 29, 2017 by wknt3

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

That's the real appeal to those "white working class" voters. Even among those who are receiving some sort of government subsidy themselves. This pervasive, insidious idea that minorities and illegals are being given free money is what convinced so many "white working class" voters to vote for Trump.

Butthurt white dudes whining about 'why am i not getting mine?!'

[Broderbits]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

Butthurt white dudes whining about 'why am i not getting mine?!'

And too dumb to realize that with trump, Ryan & McConnell, they are NEVER going to get "theirs".

[ganesh]

Well, at least Trump isn't using an android phone for unsecured emails.

[sistermagpie]

On 1/28/2017 at 8:48 AM, Sparger Springs said:

That survey was given to people who said they had Indian blood. Which in my experience is 85% of the American public.

Exactly.

What's also annoying is that there could have been a good argument there if instead of acting like it didn't matter that there was a football team with a name that's a slur (honestly, I agree that football team names aren't that important so why don't they just CHANGE THE NAME THAT'S A SLUR? It's not the Native Americans who are being stubborn and selfish there), he had stuck to what he summed up with, saying "While you were policing the language at the kids' choice awards a fascist was elected president." The important thing isn't that people shouldn't be politically correct but that you shouldn't be ready to yell at Steve Martin on the Internet for saying the first thing he noticed about Carrie Fisher was that she was pretty and then not vote to keep the Fascist out of office. That's where it gets stupid, where those people let people down.

On 1/28/2017 at 2:09 PM, ganesh said:

And, Grover, stop it with the "We don't know; we should look into it." Yes, we do know. There's more of a chance of being struck by lighting twice than actual voter fraud in all elections over the past 17 years. 

By framing it that way he acts as if the argument is whether there is a ton of voting fraud or none (trap--there were like maybe four votes!) so we need to investigate. In reality the argument is over whether or not it's okay to disenfranchise Democratic voters with ID laws etc. and justify it with voter fraud. 

[Drumpf1737]

Is the show on this Friday? I can't wait to hear Bill's reaction to a muslim ban. Can't wait for him to thread the needle of not being like Trump but fully supporting a ban. I'm sure there will be virulent right wingers on the panel to agree with him that Trump just did what had to be done.

[b2H]

I'm not seeing any kind of guest listing, officially.  The one way I know to tell is when they run the scroll at the end of the episode - they'll generally list out who has already committed to be on the show, but it may not be a complete list and changes could occur during the week.

Anyhow, I didn't watch the last episode, so I don't know.  I assume it is.

[IndianPaintbrush]

3 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Is the show on this Friday? I can't wait to hear Bill's reaction to a muslim ban. Can't wait for him to thread the needle of not being like Trump but fully supporting a ban. I'm sure there will be virulent right wingers on the panel to agree with him that Trump just did what had to be done.

Bill will focus on how terribly the order was implemented, along with the fact that countries containing Trump's business interests were not on the list.  That's about all I expect from him.

[Victor the Crab]

I noticed on the crawl list of Friday's guest that Tomi Lahren will be on, so I assume whatever possible bullshit Bill has to say about the Muslim travel ban (and/or the gunning down of a half dozem Muslims at a Quebec City mosque by a white Drumph supporter), TomiGirl will hang on his every word.

[Hanahope]

moved to other thread.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Hanahope