History Talk: The Victorian Era

[maraleia]

Here's the place to post what you've found out about Queen Victoria and the time period named after her. Also, how she impacted the entirety of the European continent including Russia long after her death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_descendants_of_Queen_Victoria_and_King_Christian_IX

http://www.vogue.com/13522266/queen-victoria-royal-wedding-facts-victoria-premiere/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2013/12/20/the-family-relationships-that-couldnt-stop-world-war-i/

[Brn2bwild]

This probably belongs here:

7 Surprising Facts About Queen Victoria: http://www.historyextra.com/article/era/7-facts-you-probably-didn’t-know-about-queen-victoria

[gator12]

This documentary talk about Victoria and the relationship with her children

[LucyHoneychurch]

Longtime reader, infrequent poster....

Can anyone recommend a good biography on Queen Victoria or history on the Victorian age? I realized while watching episode 1 that I don't know a lot about the era, despite my love of Victorian novels. I'm not an avid biography reader, so I'm looking for something "readable" as opposed to getting bogged-down in footnotes and notes.

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, LucyHoneychurch said:

Longtime reader, infrequent poster....

Can anyone recommend a good biography on Queen Victoria or history on the Victorian age? I realized while watching episode 1 that I don't know a lot about the era, despite my love of Victorian novels. I'm not an avid biography reader, so I'm looking for something "readable" as opposed to getting bogged-down in footnotes and notes.

I really liked We Two, by Gillian Gill.

[vibeology]

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I really liked We Two, by Gillian Gill.

I'll second that. I didn't know much about Victoria before I read that book and I'll admit I still have some gaps, but it covers a great deal of her early life and gives some great information about Albert too. You get a strong sense of who they are and what challenges they faced both apart and together.

[maraleia]

Bringing this over from the episode thread http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/haemophilia.html

[anyanka323]

Victoria and Albert were parents who had high expectations for their kids.  Albert's favorite seems to have been their eldest Victoria who was the mother of Wilhelm II.  Edward VII was a disappointment to both of his parents because he wasn't as hard working or serious as they would have liked when he was a young man.  He turned out to be a good ruler despite his mother's refusal to share responsibility with him. 

The part about her being a very controlling mother via letters is very true.  Her daughter Alice, the mother of Tsarina Alexandra, was sincerely interested in nursing, social work, and charity in Darmstadt.  She breastfed most of her children and a cow at Balmoral was named Princess Alice as a result. 

[Badger]

Another interesting thing about Victoria's daughters is that they all knew how to cook.  Albert insisted on it, and they also had a garden they had to tend to themselves.  

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, anyanka323 said:

Victoria and Albert were parents who had high expectations for their kids.  Albert's favorite seems to have been their eldest Victoria who was the mother of Wilhelm II.  Edward VII was a disappointment to both of his parents because he wasn't as hard working or serious as they would have liked when he was a young man.  He turned out to be a good ruler despite his mother's refusal to share responsibility with him. 

The part about her being a very controlling mother via letters is very true.  Her daughter Alice, the mother of Tsarina Alexandra, was sincerely interested in nursing, social work, and charity in Darmstadt.  She breastfed most of her children and a cow at Balmoral was named Princess Alice as a result. 

Didn't she also complain about Edward doing nothing while not giving him anything to do?  And force her youngest daughter to stay and take care of her? Originally, wanting her stay single but Beatrice met someone and had to fight to be allowed to marry.  Then was only allowed to do so if she stayed with her mother? I think she did that with Louise and Helena too. Making sure they stayed near by even after they married. 

[anyanka323]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Didn't she also complain about Edward doing nothing while not giving him anything to do?  And force her youngest daughter to stay and take care of her? Originally, wanting her stay single but Beatrice met someone and had to fight to be allowed to marry.  Then was only allowed to do so if she stayed with her mother? I think she did that with Louise and Helena too. Making sure they stayed near by even after they married. 

The youngest daughter Beatrice did a major disservice to historians when she ruthlessly edited and purged Victoria's diaries of anything that would make her seem like less than a perfect person.  Examples include censoring her descriptions of her and Albert's active sex life, trying to downplay her difficult relationship with the Dutchess of Kent and Sir John Conroy, etc. 

[LaChavalina]

If you're into the history of this period, I'd also suggest reading up on Victoria's cousin, Princess Charlotte of Wales. Her (likely preventable) death in childbirth sparked the succession crisis, and Victoria might never have been born if not for her untimely death.

Charlotte was a fascinating person in her own right. I wouldn't mind seeing a mini-series about her.

[fourPLUSseven]

I didn't know where to post this lovely portrait of young Victoria.

[LiveenLetLive]

12 hours ago, anyanka323 said:

The youngest daughter Beatrice did a major disservice to historians when she ruthlessly edited and purged Victoria's diaries of anything that would make her seem like less than a perfect person.  Examples include censoring her descriptions of her and Albert's active sex life, trying to downplay her difficult relationship with the Dutchess of Kent and Sir John Conroy, etc. 

Beatrice did what so many did in the 19thc (consider Austen's sister) and got rid of anything that they thought would put a "bad light" on the deceased. Fortunately enough diary entries remain that can not hide the passion between Victoria and Albert--just her description of her first sight of Albert when he comes to court her is sizzling with "lust" LOL.

[Brn2bwild]

On 1/20/2017 at 7:35 PM, anyanka323 said:

Victoria and Albert were parents who had high expectations for their kids.  Albert's favorite seems to have been their eldest Victoria who was the mother of Wilhelm II.  Edward VII was a disappointment to both of his parents because he wasn't as hard working or serious as they would have liked when he was a young man.  He turned out to be a good ruler despite his mother's refusal to share responsibility with him. 

The part about her being a very controlling mother via letters is very true.  Her daughter Alice, the mother of Tsarina Alexandra, was sincerely interested in nursing, social work, and charity in Darmstadt.  She breastfed most of her children and a cow at Balmoral was named Princess Alice as a result. 

Not only that, but she was rather hypocritical.  It was fine for her to be melodramatic and hysterical for literally decades, but if one of her daughters got hysterical over, say, losing a child, she was like, "Geez, get over it."  Until she lost her first child, that is...

That said, I think she did show her children love on many occasions, and at the very least was in favor of letting her daughters marry for love rather than purely dynastic purposes.

[kwnyc]

So Uncle Cumberland took a saber to the head fighting against the French Revolution, threw the Brothers Grimm out of their jobs, and there were rumors that he was going to murder Victoria. (He also married his wife after the "sudden death" of her first husband.)

I want to see a darkly comic miniseries about all the machinations of the heirs of George III. (I've already seen/enjoyed a live performance of "The Madness of George III.")

[TaurusRose]

6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Two questions I have:  

1) was this supposed pseudo-romance between Melbourne and Victoria real, or is it being played up for the TV show?  Did he actually suggest to Victoria that he should be her "companion" in the same sense that Leicester was a companion to Elizabeth?  

2) did Prince George of Cambridge really bungle things by saying within Victoria's earshot that he didn't want to marry the m***** and be told what to do?  She obviously didn't like him to begin with but this show is making it seem like that this overheard conversation is what finally doomed his chance.

1)  Have no idea.  I know that Victoria did interfere with Peel (or somebody) trying to set up a government by not allowing a change in her ladies.  But the rest of it is questionable and IMO the product of dramatic license.

2)  See #1.

I quite agree with your comments about focus.  I was drawn to this series because I thought it would be a more detailed dramatization of Victoria's life (read dig in where Young Victoria painted in broad strokes).  They need to remember who this series is about.

[Rosiejuliemom]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:40 PM, LucyHoneychurch said:

Longtime reader, infrequent poster....

Can anyone recommend a good biography on Queen Victoria or history on the Victorian age? I realized while watching episode 1 that I don't know a lot about the era, despite my love of Victorian novels. I'm not an avid biography reader, so I'm looking for something "readable" as opposed to getting bogged-down in footnotes and notes.

I'll add in another vote for We Two. Also, if you want to go a couple of generations up or down the line, I'd recommend Born to Rule, which covers five of Victoria's granddaughters, who became consorts of various rulers, and A Royal Experiment, which is about her grandparents, King George III and Queen Charlotte. 

[andromeda331]

42 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I'll add in another vote for We Two. Also, if you want to go a couple of generations up or down the line, I'd recommend Born to Rule, which covers five of Victoria's granddaughters, who became consorts of various rulers, and A Royal Experiment, which is about her grandparents, King George III and Queen Charlotte. 

Born to Rule was good book.

[LaChavalina]

Quote

Two questions I have:  

1) was this supposed pseudo-romance between Melbourne and Victoria real, or is it being played up for the TV show?  Did he actually suggest to Victoria that he should be her "companion" in the same sense that Leicester was a companion to Elizabeth?  

Quote

1)  Have no idea.  I know that Victoria did interfere with Peel (or somebody) trying to set up a government by not allowing a change in her ladies.  But the rest of it is questionable and IMO the product of dramatic license.

The age difference between them in real life was a full 40 years. So, at this point in time she was 19 and he was 59. Her letters refer to him as a father figure; I think it was true that people sniped about her being "Mrs. Melbourne," but in a rather mean-spirited way.

The show is correct to note that Victoria and Albert had met before she became queen, but the Victoria-Albert/Victoria-Leopold relationship was not as acrimonious as it seemed in Episode 3. You can read one of her letters to Leopold before she became queen here, where she refers to him as her beloved Uncle and thanks him for some unspecified advice. 

[Brn2bwild]

2 hours ago, LaChavalina said:

The age difference between them in real life was a full 40 years. So, at this point in time she was 19 and he was 59. Her letters refer to him as a father figure; I think it was true that people sniped about her being "Mrs. Melbourne," but in a rather mean-spirited way.

The show is correct to note that Victoria and Albert had met before she became queen, but the Victoria-Albert/Victoria-Leopold relationship was not as acrimonious as it seemed in Episode 3. You can read one of her letters to Leopold before she became queen here, where she refers to him as her beloved Uncle and thanks him for some unspecified advice. 

My impression was that in real life, she was quite fond of her Uncle Leopold.

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

My impression was that in real life, she was quite fond of her Uncle Leopold.

True- to the point of calling him 'her only father' since she never forgot that her own father had died in infancy. Yes, she did get tired of his nagging and she made it very clear that she wouldn't let him try to rule through her. However;  Vic would mourn him far more profoundly than his own children would. But then, he had been somewhat neglectful towards them and their own dying mother while he openly lived with a mistress. BTW, he actually insisted on his only daughter by his 2nd wife being named for his late first wife Charlotte. The girl would grow up to marry Emperor Franz-Josef's younger brother and insist he take the gig as Napoleon III's puppet Mexican Emperor in order to try to outshine her cousin. To say the outcome was tragic is an understatement.

[Badger]

Theo Aronson's books are also good if you're interested in finding out more about Victoria and her royal descendants.  I recommend "Grandmama of Europe."  

Regarding Cousin George (later The Duke of Cambridge), he married an actress named Louisa Fairbrother without permission so she was never recognized.  She changed her name to FitzGeorge and their three children also used that name.  

[Quilt Fairy]

Brought over from the Episode 2 thread:
 

Quote

 

Playing TOO fast and loose with protocol...The downstairs help would not so openly show the struggle for power by shaming the household with cheap candles dripping on the royal guests.

Details like that make me sad for this production after years of watching Downton Abbey, we know better.

Bet The Oracle from Downton Abbey is  tsk tsking the story line.

 

Downton Abbey is set 80 years later.  "Downstairs" rules developed over time, like anything else, and I think you'll find that a lot of the formality and procedures followed at Downton were actually established during Victoria's reign.  I don't find it unusual that the senior servants had little scams to get extra money, they were probably paid little enough, and there was no retirement as such.  I think the reason the servants seem so mean and one-dimensional is that they had a mean and one-dimensional life.

I'm no expert on this time period. Would anyone else like to chime in?

[blackwing]

Agree about the candles.  I really think that this small plot element is one of those things that viewers are supposed to find funny and titillating.  Well, it failed with me.  

I just saw the book "Victoria" by Daisy Goodwin in the bookstore today.  Flipped through it.  I was surprised.  I thought it was going to be a biography, and that this Daisy Goodwin adapted her book and produced this show.  I was surprised to find that it was a novel.  Makes me feel that much less warm towards this show.  Basically, it seems to me that this Daisy Goodwin was sitting at home thinking "I want to be the next Julian Fellowes, but I can't have a show set in the same time period.  Oooh, what about Elizabeth?  Well, she's been done to death and they just aired Wolf Hall.  I need to find some other well-known and well-loved figure in British history that I can make lots of money off of.  People loved Downton Abbey so I need to follow that model and show the upstairs and downstairs.  I'm going to include salacious bits that the audience will just LOVE, no matter how improbable they sound, like 5 rats making their way to a big birthday cake in the very middle of the room without any of the 50 people in the room noticing.  I am going to be FAMOUS and RICH!"

The more I think about it, the more this series annoys me.  The next episode, with the introduction of Ugly Albert and the continuation of the thoroughly uninteresting plot line of The Cook, The Maid, The Scammer and The Poor, is really going to make or break it for me.

[Dirtybubble]

Who is the lady that keeps talking to Lord M at these social functions such as balls?  I almost thought it was Victoria's mother but it's not--same age though.  The way she keeps egging him on and hinting at his feelings for her it almost seems like she knows and perhaps is in favor of a relationship between he and the queen.  *shrug*

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Dirtybubble said:

Who is the lady that keeps talking to Lord M at these social functions such as balls?  I almost thought it was Victoria's mother but it's not--same age though.  The way she keeps egging him on and hinting at his feelings for her it almost seems like she knows and perhaps is in favor of a relationship between he and the queen.  *shrug*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Portman,_Viscountess_Portman

[Brn2bwild]

Regarding Tsarevich Alexander and his statement that his father was going to make him marry some "Danish" woman: that was actually his son Alexander III.  Dagmar, daughter of Christian IX of Denmark, was going to marry Alexander III's older brother Nicholas ("Nixa"), but Nixa died, so she married Alexander instead.  Dagmar took the name Marie Feodorovna.  She was the sister of Queen Alexandra, wife of Edward VII, Victoria's son.

Alexander II married Marie of Hesse-Darmstadt, a German principality.  Marie of Hesse-Darmstadt was the great aunt of Alix of Hess-Darmstadt, who later married Tsar Nicholas II and became Alexandra Feodorovna, the last Empress of Russia. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Brn2bwild

[kwnyc]

Quote

She was the daughter of Henry Lascelles, 2nd Earl of Harewood and Henrietta Sebright.

Doesn't surprise me that Emma Portman was a Lascelles...and distantly related to Tommy "The Mustache" Lascelles! Also: 

Quote

She served as Lady of the Bedchamber to Queen Victoria between 1837 and 1851, then an Extra Lady of the Bedchamber between 1851 and 1865.

Also someone, pray tell, what is the difference between a Lady of the Bedchamber and an EXTRA Lady?

[Blergh]

11 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Regarding Tsarevich Alexander and his statement that his father was going to make him marry some "Danish" woman: that was actually his son Alexander III.  Dagmar, daughter of Christian IX of Denmark, was going to marry Alexander III's older brother Nicholas ("Nixa"), but Nixa died, so she married Alexander instead.  Dagmar took the name Marie Feodorovna.  She was the sister of Queen Alexandra, wife of Edward VII, Victoria's son.

Alexander II married Marie of Hesse-Darmstadt, a German principality.  Marie of Hesse-Darmstadt was the great aunt of Alix of Hess-Darmstadt, who later married Tsar Nicholas II and became Alexandra Feodorovna, the last Empress of Russia. 

Hoo boy! In this age of Smartphones, Googling and Wikipedia, it's utterly bogus for the writer/director to have mixed up whom the Tsaverich eventually wed!  I know this is a supposed to be a drama based on Vic's life and NOT any attempt at a documentary but all they'd have had to do was sub sauerkraut for herring re the bride's cuisine and it would have still gotten a catty laugh from at least part of the audience.  Oh, and due to neither of them being allowed to rule if they didn't stick with their nation's dominant faith and both of them wanting to rule, there was zero chance of them considering their dances together to be more than a vague premarital flirtation.

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Hoo boy! In this age of Smartphones, Googling and Wikipedia, it's utterly bogus for the writer/director to have mixed up whom the Tsaverich eventually wed!  I know this is a supposed to be a drama based on Vic's life and NOT any attempt at a documentary but all they'd have had to do was sub sauerkraut for herring re the bride's cuisine and it would have still gotten a catty laugh from at least part of the audience.  Oh, and due to neither of them being allowed to rule if they didn't stick with their nation's dominant faith and both of them wanting to rule, there was zero chance of them considering their dances together to be more than a vague premarital flirtation.

Or they could be taking a page from the Reign playbook and intentionally conflating people and situations for dramatic license.  That series plays fast and loose with all kinds of historical figures and facts.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Oh, and due to neither of them being allowed to rule if they didn't stick with their nation's dominant faith and both of them wanting to rule, there was zero chance of them considering their dances together to be more than a vague premarital flirtation.

Another reason they couldn't wed was that Victoria needed to remain in England, and Alexander, the eventual heir, would have to live in Russia.  It was never a possibility as soon as Victoria became the heir-apparent.  Her uncle Leopold was not King of the Belgians when he married her cousin Charlotte, the then-heir to the throne, although it is possible that the King of the Belgians could split his time between two countries.  Not so the Queen of England or the Czar.

[Constantinople]

33 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Or they could be taking a page from the Reign playbook and intentionally conflating people and situations for dramatic license.  That series plays fast and loose with all kinds of historical figures and facts.

I look forward to Albert discovering Victoria's secret lingerie business

[Dirtybubble]

3 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Also someone, pray tell, what is the difference between a Lady of the Bedchamber and an EXTRA Lady?

I don't know for sure and I tried looking it up but didn't get a clear answer.  The best I can guess an extra lady is maybe a temporary or even an additional Lady of whatever position be it bedchamber, wardrobe, etc.  *shrug*  Please if I'm wrong someone correct me....

[Blergh]

20 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Or they could be taking a page from the Reign playbook and intentionally conflating people and situations for dramatic license.  That series plays fast and loose with all kinds of historical figures and facts.

Possibly, but it doesn't seem the herring joke was really worth the mixup, IMO, BTW, to keep things historic, in spite of Victoria scandalizing certain segments by having the Tsarevich staying under the same roof in Windsor Castle for three days, he didn't have any real interest in her saying that she was 'very short with a bad waist with an uncomely face' yet  admitted she spoke charmingly. It seems kind of silly for folks to have gotten upset since Windsor Castle was by no means a one-room cabin! LOL

[Constantinople]

On 1/25/2017 at 0:29 PM, kwnyc said:

Also someone, pray tell, what is the difference between a Lady of the Bedchamber and an EXTRA Lady?

On the theory that ignorance is bliss, and unencumbered by any actual knowledge of the subject, I'm willing to speculate that an Extra Lady is like a professor emeritus.  Either that or Victoria finally acknowledged that she would have to appoint Ladies to the Bedchamber from another party.  However, she still wanted to keep her friends around, so she moved them over from being Ladies to Extra Ladies.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Constantinople

[peppergal]

On 1/25/2017 at 0:29 PM, kwnyc said:

Also someone, pray tell, what is the difference between a Lady of the Bedchamber and an EXTRA Lady?

The best explanation I could find is:

"There are also two Extra Ladies of the Bedchamber. One of them, The Marchioness of Abergavenny, explains: 'I'm there if I'm wanted, if someone is ill for instance, or if Her Majesty wants me. Recently I was called in to help answer thousands of letters people sent in after the fire at Windsor.'"

[andromeda331]

I have a question with the Ladies, do they lived with Victoria every day year round? Some of them were married when do they see their husbands?  

[ulkis]

Why was Victoria the monarch and not one of her uncles or her male cousins?

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Why was Victoria the monarch and not one of her uncles or her male cousins?

Britain didn't have a law barring women. They went in order with the male line first, and their children but if they had all girls or only child was a girl, she'd become Queen before any uncles younger then her father and their sons. Her older uncles didn't have any legitimate children or no children in the case of Prince Frederick or in George IV's case his only legitimate child had died in childbirth, which lead to Victoria being conceived at all.

[LiveenLetLive]

Sigh...I so want to enjoy this series, but the liberties that they have taken with the truth bug me. I guess that I know too much about the real Victoria and Albert. I despise the Melbourne angle, the ridiculous casting of Sewell rankles, and now this supposed adversarial relationship upon meeting Albert when Victoria's diaries suggest that she was smitten almost immediately. Ironically the real (young) Albert was a bit better looking than Tom Hughes. I do like the chemistry generated in the later part of the current episode between Victoria and Albert...after all, this was a couple who remained pregnant almost the entire time they were married, LOL.

[Blergh]

6 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Sigh...I so want to enjoy this series, but the liberties that they have taken with the truth bug me. I guess that I know too much about the real Victoria and Albert. I despise the Melbourne angle, the ridiculous casting of Sewell rankles, and now this supposed adversarial relationship upon meeting Albert when Victoria's diaries suggest that she was smitten almost immediately. Ironically the real (young) Albert was a bit better looking than Tom Hughes. I do like the chemistry generated in the later part of the current episode between Victoria and Albert...after all, this was a couple who remained pregnant almost the entire time they were married, LOL.

Yes, the Real Life Victoria WAS enthralled with Albert from literally the first moment she laid eyes on him after she'd seen he'd grown up and, even with more cynical and worldly folks calling him that did NOT think him a 'prude'.  Also, he had been raised  and trained from his literal birth to be her eventual consort but before their fateful re-meeting he was considering putting an end that that idea because he was tired of her avoiding him. Essentially, these two only had grudgingly agreed to meet each other again to get their matchmaking parents off their backs but instead found each other quite appealing despite her earlier reluctance.  One thing the  show got right here was how Albert personally DID like 'Aunt Kent' all along and lobbied Vic to open her heart to her again despite how much her mother had burned her (though it seems almost as soon as Vic told him what Conroy's role had been Albert immediately shared her disdain for him and staunchly supported Vic's efforts to keep as much distance between the entire family and Conroy ).Yes, by protocol, Vic had had to be the one to propose to Albert but she did her best to give them as much privacy as possible by having him summoned solo to a 'closet' rather than a grand hall where everyone could spy upon them. Also, Albert came from a rather strapped postage-stamp sized domain so for him rend not one but two shirts  would have been totally out of character.  Still, the series so far has done a fairly good turn showing the contrast to the rather straight-laced future Prince Consort and his more ribald brother and father and I hope they actually will attempt to depict HOW he managed to have such a different character from them despite being raised in an environment where it would be met with constant winks and nudges.

[peppergal]

On 1/27/2017 at 11:33 PM, andromeda331 said:

I have a question with the Ladies, do they lived with Victoria every day year round? Some of them were married when do they see their husbands?  

Apparently they took turns so they were only "waiting" about 2-3 months out of the year and not all in one stint. 

 

This site has some good info:  http://www.avictorian.com/victoria_ladies.html

[Brn2bwild]

I wonder if we're seeing the dissolute downstairs so that we can watch the contrast when Albert implements his strict household system later?  He was the one who apparently insisted servants and any "lesser" stand before the monarch.

[TaurusRose]

15 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Sigh...I so want to enjoy this series, but the liberties that they have taken with the truth bug me. I guess that I know too much about the real Victoria and Albert. I despise the Melbourne angle, the ridiculous casting of Sewell rankles, and now this supposed adversarial relationship upon meeting Albert when Victoria's diaries suggest that she was smitten almost immediately. Ironically the real (young) Albert was a bit better looking than Tom Hughes. I do like the chemistry generated in the later part of the current episode between Victoria and Albert...after all, this was a couple who remained pregnant almost the entire time they were married, LOL.

I agree about the Melbourne angle.  It's a tiresome trope that every couple must be burdened by a third party, moreso when dealing with historical figures when there is no evidence whatsoever to support the tired trope.  IMO, these liberties are only done to engage the female audience to deteriorate into shipping wars.  I hate it.  And I don't know what I hate more--the fact that people allow themselves to be manipulated because they don't know history or the fact that they can't be bothered to research history.  Either way, it sucks.  There are very few real life great love stories.  This was one of them.  Why can't it be enjoyed for what it was without making up drama?  

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

I agree about the Melbourne angle.  It's a tiresome trope that every couple must be burdened by a third party, moreso when dealing with historical figures when there is no evidence whatsoever to support the tired trope.  IMO, these liberties are only done to engage the female audience to deteriorate into shipping wars.  I hate it.  And I don't know what I hate more--the fact that people allow themselves to be manipulated because they don't know history or the fact that they can't be bothered to research history.  Either way, it sucks.  There are very few real life great love stories.  This was one of them.  Why can't it be enjoyed for what it was without making up drama?  

I always wish they would go the route of a father-daughter relationship between Victoria and Melbourne which was more likely the case. It can be just as strong, interesting and even a problem between Victoria and Albert. Until Melbourne, no one ever listened to Victoria. He was her first prime minister and after spending her childhood putting up with Conroy and her mother its easy to see why she would be so fond of Melbourne and reluctant to part with him. 

[LiveenLetLive]

Another thing that annoys the crap out of me is the show acts like Victoria had no German, she was fluent as far as I understand, just a minor detail but it bugs me.

[chitowngirl]

Yes, she and Albert spoke German between themselves.

[TaurusRose]

On 1/24/2017 at 4:57 PM, Dirtybubble said:

Who is the lady that keeps talking to Lord M at these social functions such as balls?  I almost thought it was Victoria's mother but it's not--same age though.  The way she keeps egging him on and hinting at his feelings for her it almost seems like she knows and perhaps is in favor of a relationship between he and the queen.  *shrug*

Lady Emma.  To me she just seems like a gossipy busybody.  I peg her as someone who is bored and has nothing going on in her own life; therefore, she likes to stir the pot (whether or not it's appropriate) to get a rise out of someone else.    

[Dirtybubble]

19 hours ago, taurusrose said:

I agree about the Melbourne angle.  It's a tiresome trope that every couple must be burdened by a third party, moreso when dealing with historical figures when there is no evidence whatsoever to support the tired trope.  IMO, these liberties are only done to engage the female audience to deteriorate into shipping wars.  I hate it.  And I don't know what I hate more--the fact that people allow themselves to be manipulated because they don't know history or the fact that they can't be bothered to research history.  Either way, it sucks.  There are very few real life great love stories.  This was one of them.  Why can't it be enjoyed for what it was without making up drama?  

If this was a serious, educational documentary/movie/TV show then yeah that detail would bug but I think this show has already established itself as a soapy drama so a little fudging of details doesn't bug me that much.  So what if Victoria & Lord M relationship is amped up with lovey dove stuff.  The actors are extremely attractive and the settings are fairy tale perfect.  Enh indulge the fantasy a bit.