S05.E06: Occurrence Reports

[Deanie87]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 0:44 AM, weyrbunny said:

Susan has been under-served in S5, I think, perhaps even last season, too. So, while her conversations with Nathaniel were moving, her decision to surrender felt inconsistent and rushed. I can see how, as she was convincing Nathaniel, she was supposed to be convincing herself, but I don’t think the scene got there, especially after she had just rescued Connor. Susan has needed reassurance this season from Jackson and Mimi, and has had to face her past actions with Mathilda, so there has been a sense of guilt about her—but the time was spent on exploring Nathaniel’s conscience, not Susan’s, and I think the character suffered for it.

 

Warning - I know that this is the episode thread so spoiler tags aren't really necessary, but there are some BIG ones in my post, so beware!

 

Honestly, I"m trying very hard not to be overly dramatic, but these developments with Susan and having Jackson die offscreen pretty much ruined the finale for me and, quite possibly, the whole series.  At the very least, the rewatches won't be nearly as fun knowing how things end up.  Maybe I will just stop at season 3. Weyrbunny, I completely agree that Susan's turning herself in was completely unearned.  She was literally ready to go moments before Nathaniel showed up and she had no problem killing whoever got in her way, not only for Connor's sake, but for the sake of money and freedom.  Not to mention the machinations that they went through the first time she was in the hangman's noose.  So I simply don't buy that she would willingly turn herself in when she finally had Connor and was finally so close to getting away with everything.  It just made no sense to me at all.  

As far as Jackson, I just don't understand why.  Yes, he died a hero, but so what?  It wasn't poignant, it wasn't earned, and truly the only person who really seemed to care was Mimi.  Not to mention, poor Connor is left alone after everything else.  In my mind, given all that he has seen and the umpteen ways that he has been treated as chattel and lost every single person who ever cared for him, HE will end up a serial killer, but since he is now in America, Reid won't get the chance to hunt him.  Ugh.  I just hate that they did this.  It brought absolutely nothing to the story, IMO.  I know that in the end, this was really Reid's story, but it all rang hollow to me, considering that Rose, Drake, Jackson and Susan (not to mention Thatcher) all got tossed pretty much by the wayside.  I wish I cared more about Mathilda so that I could enjoy her happy ending, but I just don't.

On a positive note, I liked everything to do with Augustus and Nathaniel and thought that both actors did a tremendous job.  I, too, enjoyed Abberline and I liked the way that they brought the show full circle with the Jack the Ripper stuff, but other than that, I was extremely disappointed in the finale and pretty much the season.  I realize that this show isn't one for happy endings, and I didn't expect every character to ride off into the sunset joyously, but I just don't think that the endings that most characters got was earned or made any kind of narrative sense.  

ETA - I thought of one other thing that I enjoyed, namely everything with Jackson's incredulity at the actions of those around him. From Reid not wanting to shoot himself out of jail, to Susan's showing up at the jail and his returning to the morgue, I think he and I had the same "WTF is wrong with everyone?" expression on our faces.  I will miss him most of all!

[radishcake]

Quote

Reid is reinstated as chief inspector. Mathilda is pregnant, marries and moves away, leaving her father behind. Dove is brought to justice, as are his brother Nathaniel and Susan. Instead of going to Susan's execution, Jackson leaves with Connor for the United States. Mimi's Alexandria Theatre opens to the public and on new year's eve 1899 Mimi leaves for a suitor, after getting news of Jackson's heroic death in the US. Reid remains troubled with memories of Jack the Ripper, and attempts to find closure for his failure to solve the case. This proves fruitless, and he continues to police Whitechapel as its sole guardian. Reid spends the turn of the century alone in his office, reading daily occurrence reports. Three lamps glow in his office, for those he has lost.

[weyrbunny]

This finale was… unexpected, unusual—the conclusion was so joyless, like gears grinding to a halt. I didn’t go in expecting a happy ending either, but still... I found the episode thematically fitting, at least. It also struck me as a companion to the season premiere, but unfortunately, much as ep. 5.1 didn’t feel consistent with Ripper Street, neither did this. Looking at it objectively, I can say that I respect the finale, though I didn’t find it fully satisfying.

Holy Hell, the flashbacks to Jack the Ripper were gruesome! They were needed though, because they gave weight to the reminders of how the show began: in the horror and frustration of not being able to catch a serial killer. And so Nathaniel’s story brought the show full-circle, but with the opposite resolution: Reid was finally able to see a serial killer brought to justice. Or, serial killers, if you include Dove and Susan.

I have mixed feelings about Reid’s many crimes being ignored, though. Was it consistent with the show’s portrait of police corruption? Certainly. DI Shine was a fucking nightmare of police brutality who overdosed in a drug den, for example, but when Dove and the higher-ups eulogized him to the press, he was a paragon to be mourned (ep. 5.5.). Ms. Costello and the press had also seemed oddly surprised that the police would suggest executing Reid, like it was something they’d never done to one of their own before. And in fact, they wouldn’t do it to Dove, so she was right. Also, Dove’s actions may have always been personal, but he still embodied a corrupt institution. It was no surprise then that the corrupt institution protected itself by burying Dove and overlooking Reid’s crimes, for appearances-sake. But it was dissatisfying that Reid didn’t face some consequence—besides the existential—and too convenient that Jackson was provided as an excuse.

On 1/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, Deanie87 said:

On a positive note, I liked everything to do with Augustus and Nathaniel and thought that both actors did a tremendous job. 

They really were the best part of Series 5, and the focus they received this season may have even added depth to Series 4.

BTW, the straw on the floor made Dove’s cell look like a zoo enclosure. How deeply ironic that he was now the caged “beast of prey” instead of Nathaniel.

I really wanted someone to check on Mimi, after learning that she had scarlet fever. (I still associate scarlet fever with Little Women and expect the worst.) But, they were too busy with their hasty hostage crisis/forensics…

The manufactured melodrama like that is my least favorite aspect of S5. The angst from manipulating Drummond into betrayal seems like a waste of time, especially. If Dove or Shine had simply targeted Reid’s house... he was checking the window nightly! They didn’t even need to light the candle. And I’ve since realized that Leonard, the handyman, was “fridged” to provide Susan with guilt. One every season, I guess.

On 1/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, Deanie87 said:

 I know that in the end, this was really Reid's story, but it all rang hollow to me, considering that Rose, Drake, Jackson and Susan (not to mention Thatcher) all got tossed pretty much by the wayside.

The finale’s conclusion did help to re-frame Drake’s death, and even Rose’s resigned departure, I think. My theory: the unifying theme of S5 is about leaving Whitechapel, or trying to, all as contrast to Reid. Ripper Street was dispassionate about Drake and Rose as foreshadowing I suspect, because they were simply the first to go. I saw echoes of their exits with Jackson, Mathilda, Mimi, Deborah, maybe even Thatcher. Dove and Nathaniel also spent the season trying to leave Whitechapel for Hackney, literally and figuratively. And, of course, Susan, who’s been trying to escape since last season.

When Mathilda said, “He won’t come. He won’t ever. He cannot.” about Reid never visiting them, I found it very sad. His pragmatic daughter sees him for what he is, but it seemed like a curse, like she was denying him hope.

I appreciated Abberline’s directive to Reid: “Then work, Edmund. Fight!” It recalled Drake’s last words from the season premiere—“No, my friend, I won’t fight.”—bringing season 5 full-circle and giving further meaning to the show's last image of Reid simply setting about his work.

On 1/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, Deanie87 said:

Maybe I will just stop at season 3.

The S3 finale is pretty perfect, and more satisfying than this episode, certainly. But I think ep. 5.3, "All the Glittering Blades", is also stellar, and I would miss rewatching it.

Edited January 15, 2017 by weyrbunny

[weyrbunny]

I just read through Den of Geek's Series 5 reviews. They have a high opinion of this last season, praising its storytelling. Some of what they say is thought-provoking.

I'm now wondering if I would appreciate the series finale more if I rewatched season 1, or at least the pilot.

[voiceover]

I haven't seen most of Season 5 (let me lay some of the blame on BBCAmerica, since I didn't even know the series was back on until Week 2! Not to mention: no reruns.  Of any of it!).   I've been sifting through the entries here, but can't find how Drake died (my poor Bennett! It was Rose's fault, wasn't it), or why Jackson left, or what happened with Edmund's sex life.  Wikipedia was not useful.

I remember how I adored Season 1; how every ep was a thrill ride, and how the chemistry of the three leads was off the charts.

Should've stopped there, I guess.  Much like my Musketeers experience.

*sound of yowling & glass breaking*

[raven]

After being annoyed with this season, I was actually satisfied with this episode.   Except for the oddity of Susan's sudden willingness to give up her son, her husband, her freedom and her life; it really came out of nowhere, as if the writers originally planned maybe a Jackson death and Susan leaving with Connor but then remembered that Susan was responsible for a lot more deaths.  Or maybe they just wanted her to appear noble.  It was also odd that while they were both in prison, neither she nor Jackson mentioned Connor; I guess they were both assuming he was OK with Mimi?  There's probably a scene about it that BBCA cut.

Though I never bought their relationship, MyAnna Buring and Adam Rothenberg sold the hell out of the goodbye scene before Susan is driven off.   Her final scene with Nathaniel was also moving.

Still, Jackson, as much as I like him, was annoying me with his constant hectoring of Dove at the boy's autopsy.   Not that Dove didn't deserve it and more, but because Jackson had earlier just wanted to leave the body where it was at the river.   I suppose he's in character in both scenes but it was one of the things that didn't work for me; the supposed indifference was not that long ago; too close to the judgmental anger shown here.  

Whitechapel really devoured everyone.  Rose is gone and Drake is dead; Susan and Jackson dead; Abberline haunts the streets similar to how Reid does.  For our group, there is no happiness in Whitechapel; Mathilda knew she had to leave to find it and so did Mimi.  Unfortunately for Reid that means leaving him as well.  There can be some hope with Mathilda, she is still in letter writing contact and may soften her no visiting stance someday.   It seemed that BBCA cut out Reid's toast at her wedding which I would have liked to hear.

Jackson dying to save others doesn't exactly seem like something he would do, what with him being the only one to raise Connor (the child who never speaks).  Then again, he did tell Susan he would do the opposite of how they were raised.  To further contradict myself, I can't see him standing by while children drown; I think what I'm saying is that his will to survive and raise his son would have been stronger. Though Connor is provided for financially, it leaves him to be raised by governesses and lawyers. 

I liked the flashbacks; the Ripper case really broke Reid and he never fully recovered.  He was able to let it go but that failure permanently scarred him.  Seeing Drake again was so much awww, especially how loyal he was to Reid.   I really liked the interaction of the three of them at the bar - the chemistry is there even in that brief scene.

I was hoping we would get a look at Fred Best and we did!  I wouldn't have minded seeing Hobbs again either.   Poor doomed characters.

Matthew McFayden in a top hat and tails was very nice.  Seeing Reid in his dress outfit, working alone at the new year, was poignant and melancholy.  After all that's happened, I'm OK with that.  He'll have the enormous portrait of Drake watching over him.  Mimi said it - Reid's gift is being the one left behind. 

18 hours ago, voiceover said:

I remember how I adored Season 1; how every ep was a thrill ride, and how the chemistry of the three leads was off the charts.

I loved it as well.  It's been years since I saw it and think I may re-watch.   My brain will just leave everyone at the end of S3; that's probably as happy as could be expected for everyone.

[voiceover]

You're right about that "as happy as could be expected", raven.  I guess I was so caught up in the "CSI: Victoriana" aspect early on, I assumed we'd just potter on happily with our boys as they solved crime after crime.

But then the showrunners seem to embrace the Big Villain/Big Story motif that (IMO) wrecked Doctor Who.  Pbbbbttttttt.  Me, I prefer to dwell in that magical Season 1/Ep 1 moment where the three were hiding behind that half-wall, trying to blast their way out of something or other (I need a rewatch).  Jackson was mocking Reid, Drake was supporting him (& telling Jackson to STFU), and Reid was trying to figure it all out.  He did.  And thus that sensational saucy dynamic was born.

*hustles off to watch Season 1 again*

[Paradigm14]

I don't have a TV, but was able to buy the season on Amazon. Not ready for it to end.

[ZoqFotPik]

15 hours ago, raven said:

There can be some hope with Mathilda, she is still in letter writing contact and may soften her no visiting stance someday.

I interpreted this differently. It's not that she is forbidding him from visiting, it's that she knows his job and H division are such an all consuming part of his existence that he cannot leave it for any amount of time. Especially now that he feels that this is his punishment for his crimes.

I thought the wrap up of the Dove case was wrapped up a little too quickly. It seems like that could have been done last week, although I don't know if I could take more of Reid mopping around Whitechapel. I kind of expected a fairly grim ending. I'm going to miss this show.

[CoderLady]

49 minutes ago, ZoqFotPik said:

I interpreted this differently. It's not that she is forbidding him from visiting, it's that she knows his job and H division are such an all consuming part of his existence that he cannot leave it for any amount of time. Especially now that he feels that this is his punishment for his crimes.

That's also what I saw. She said he wouldn't visit and that he couldn't, not as a warning to him but because she knew him so well. That she knew it and accepted it was one more sad thing that happened in the finale. I imagine that with all the horrors that had occurred in Whitechapel Mathilda and her new family would be disinclined to visit her father, but I also imagine that she would bring them back at least once in Reid's remaining lifetime so he could meet his granddaughter.

Edited April 14, 2017 by CoderLady

[Carolina Girl]

I found it touching that when Reid goes backstage to protest the signing of "A Violet from Mother's Grave" as the last song Mary Jane Kelly sang before being murdered, the player says "yes - why do you think we SING it?"  Ten years on, the folk remember.

Reid's description of the atrocities inflicted on Mary Kelly are enough to turn your stomach.  The photographs of the carnage, if you have not seem them, are the stuff of nightmares.  

[pezgirl7]

I just found this last episode so depressing. I really don't understand why they had to kill Jackson. It didn't seem to serve any purpose to the story, except to maybe leave Reid even more alone in the world. I don't even understand why he couldn't take a few days off to visit his daughter and grandchild. And then he had to put their photo in his desk drawer at the end to not even be reminded of them. And then the only main character left, Mimi, decides to leave her theater and marry some rich, old guy. Which also sounds depressing and against her independent nature. I going to pretend this last season never happened, because other for a few shining moments, these were not the characters I fell in love with.

Probably the only thing I liked from this episode was seeing some of the past characters in the flashbacks. And wow, a shave and some hair coloring really made Adam look like a young Jackson again!

[raven]

18 hours ago, voiceover said:

 I guess I was so caught up in the "CSI: Victoriana" aspect early on, I assumed we'd just potter on happily with our boys as they solved crime after crime.

This would have been my preference!  I don't know why they decided to have the guys go down paths they couldn't recover from.  Boo.

I didn't consider the interpretation that Mathilda was assuming Reid wouldn't visit.  To me it seemed like Drummond was making a friendly offer and Mathilda shuts it down before Reid gets a chance to reply,  She was just so definitive it seemed like her decision.  In my thinking she writes and sends the picture but doesn't want the in person contact; she doesn't want Whitechapel brought to them; like Drummond didn't want the baby born there. 

I'll be optimistic and think that Reid does see his grandchild and maybe retires close by so he can visit often.

So I stopped by the library to get the S1 DVDs and the library was closed today.  Nuts.

[lidarose9]

I watched episode 5.1 and then decided to skip the rest of this season cuz it was so excessively dark -- but my DVR continued to record them and so I decided to watch the final episode just to see how it ends. I fast-forwarded through all the rigamarole during the first half cuz I frankly don't give a shit about Dove and Shine and Nathaniel and all that crap. 

The higher-ups' decision to hush it all up to avoid bad PR was fine with me. Exchanging Jackson's freedom for Reid's cooperation was OK with me too. Initially I was let down by Reid's end, so joyless, so sad. But upon reflection it seems to me that Reid believed this was his sentence: to toil in Whitechapel for the rest of his life for the public good, the same as if he'd been in prison serving out his time. He would never leave, even for a brief vacation, because you don't take a vacation from prison. It was a life sentence. He would do this until he died. He would not be able to live with himself otherwise. Reid was an intensely moral person. I found this end for him to be satisfying in that it was consistent with his character and backstory, however sad. 

I liked the flashbacks that showed us Reid's struggles in the past. He had walked a very thin line with his sanity. The circumstances of his life combined to nearly break him in half - and now we know why he was always so buttoned up and repressed. Poor fellow. Yes, it all fit, but as a viewer, this was one of the more downbeat, depressing, sad endings I can remember. And yes, I suppose this shouldn't be a surprise. Ripper Street was pretty much always a show about unhappy people being miserable in one way or another. But what a parade of broken hearts. Nobody got a happy ending, not even close, except maybe Matilda but somehow I doubt that too. I much prefer the conclusion from Season 3, for the sake of my own heart. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by lidarose9

[Dowel Jones]

16 hours ago, raven said:

I'll be optimistic and think that Reid does see his grandchild and maybe retires close by so he can visit often.

In real life Edmund Reid did retire to the "cottage by the sea" in 1896.  He eventually died in 1917 at 71 years of age.

[WatchrTina]

On 1/14/2017 at 11:30 PM, weyrbunny said:

But it was dissatisfying that Reid didn’t face some consequence—besides the existential

Oh but he did.  Read on.

On 1/14/2017 at 11:30 PM, weyrbunny said:

When Mathilda said, “He won’t come. He won’t ever. He cannot.” about Reid never visiting them, I found it very sad. His pragmatic daughter sees him for what he is, but it seemed like a curse, like she was denying him hope.

I was confused by that line too but I think people here have explained it to me.  Read on.

On 4/14/2017 at 11:51 AM, ZoqFotPik said:

I interpreted this differently. It's not that she is forbidding him from visiting, it's that she knows his job and H division are such an all consuming part of his existence that he cannot leave it for any amount of time. Especially now that he feels that this is his punishment for his crimes.

 

14 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

upon reflection it seems to me that Reid believed this was his sentence: to toil in Whitechapel for the rest of his life for the public good, the same as if he'd been in prison serving out his time. He would never leave, even for a brief vacation, because you don't take a vacation from prison. It was a life sentence.

Thank you both.  That makes much more sense to me.  Mathilda loves her father and he will always be welcome in her home -- but she knows he will not come to visit and she has made peace with it because she, of all people, knows what demons haunt him.

Yeah, as series finales go, this one was a bummer.  But somehow that seems fitting.  It's called "Ripper Street" and in the end they took us all the back to the beginning, to the crimes that give the show its name -- crimes that were never solved despite all their best efforts.  Edmund Reid's "end" -- to continue to toil as the guardian of Whitechapel, forever haunted by it most awful crime, echoes the bitter lack of an ending the Jack the Ripper's story.

[Snarklepuss]

On 4/14/2017 at 0:53 AM, voiceover said:

You're right about that "as happy as could be expected", raven.  I guess I was so caught up in the "CSI: Victoriana" aspect early on, I assumed we'd just potter on happily with our boys as they solved crime after crime.

But then the showrunners seem to embrace the Big Villain/Big Story motif that (IMO) wrecked Doctor Who.  Pbbbbttttttt.  Me, I prefer to dwell in that magical Season 1/Ep 1 moment where the three were hiding behind that half-wall, trying to blast their way out of something or other (I need a rewatch).  Jackson was mocking Reid, Drake was supporting him (& telling Jackson to STFU), and Reid was trying to figure it all out.  He did.  And thus that sensational saucy dynamic was born.

*hustles off to watch Season 1 again*

I agree, word for word.  I think the show really started to change when Amazon got involved.  It went down an unnecessarily dark and depressing route starting with the train crash.  I didn't notice specifically but it was almost like the producers and the writers changed completely.  The original cast had such fantastic chemistry and after the first couple of seasons it was like the show was determined to ruin all of them and their relationships pretty much in the end.  I think the audience would have preferred a semi-happy ending, not something so hard to watch that even my husband, who can watch pretty much anything without batting an eye told me this season was just too much for him.  I said in an earlier episode thread this season that I felt like a madman had taken over the script writing that hated the original characters and wanted to put them through an agonizing on-screen humiliation over several episodes by replacing anything decent about the show with gratuitous violence surrounding hideous, evil new characters the audience didn't care about.

I also didn't think this finale did anything to help the series at all whatsoever.  It felt like it was slapped together by an intern or something as if no one else wanted to do it.  It just felt like the writer(s) had given up on the show already and were just writing anything to fill in the time.  The flashbacks to earlier times that we may or may not have seen in Season 1 did not do anything to help tie everything together, in fact they left us scratching our heads.  The fact that there were only 6 episodes also makes me think it was wrapped up hastily like they just wanted to get it over with.  Very sad, because the show started out with such promise and great talent.  I KNOW that if I were to watch Season 1 again it would only reconfirm how disappointed I am about the ending.

[Neurochick]

I was really into this show in season 1 and 2 and sort of into it in season 3.  Season 4 I lost interest and watched off and on in season 5.  

On April 17, 2017 at 0:21 AM, Snarklepuss said:

I agree, word for word.  I think the show really started to change when Amazon got involved.  It went down an unnecessarily dark and depressing route starting with the train crash. 

I completely agree with this.  The first two seasons were like "CSI 1890's" and I thought it was interesting; the chemistry between the three leads was wonderful.  I really enjoyed those first two seasons.  Unfortunately, this show went the way of too many shows on TV today.  Some people think it's not "art" unless the show is depressing and sad.  This is one of the reasons, I think, why "This is Us" is such as hit.  Folks are tired of the dark, depressing shit.

As I remember from season 2; Jackson lost Susan's money and I think that drove her into getting into that bizarre deal with the train crash/stealing from her father storyline of season 3.  

I think Jackson dying off screen in the finale was kind of shitty; but it wasn't a suicide mission, as he died of a heart attack because the water was freezing and we know Jackson wouldn't let children drown.  I think the point of his dying was to drive home that Reid really didn't have anyone left; Mimi just wanted to escape the easiest way she knew how.  

I'm not even sure it was a sad ending for Reid; he's the type who'd never retire, never leave, never take a holiday.  It ended with him doing what he does best, going over case files, he kind of became Abberline in that way.   I don't get the comment, "everybody moves on with their life but Reid is still there," I don't get it because THAT is Reid's life, that's what he does.  The scene that got me was at the end when Reid walked up the steps, past Bennet's portrait.  I realized something then, that Reid outlived both Bennet and Jackson, something I really didn't think was going to happen.

[weyrbunny]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:41 PM, raven said:

Whitechapel really devoured everyone.

Making Whitechapel a wolf or THE wolf... thanks for phrasing it like that, @raven, because it makes Ripper Street's ending even more thematically consistent for me.

On 4/14/2017 at 11:26 PM, lidarose9 said:

But upon reflection it seems to me that Reid believed this was his sentence: to toil in Whitechapel for the rest of his life for the public good, the same as if he'd been in prison serving out his time. He would never leave, even for a brief vacation, because you don't take a vacation from prison. It was a life sentence. He would do this until he died. He would not be able to live with himself otherwise. Reid was an intensely moral person. I found this end for him to be satisfying in that it was consistent with his character and backstory, however sad.

Thanks for re-framing Reid's outcome for me, as well—your reading of it is excellent!

I'm trotting off to All Episodes Talk to disagree about which seasons of Ripper Street are best...

[ganesh]

I'm not quite clear on Susan's overwhelming desire to get the son back only to just turn herself in afterwards. I get that she sees she's guilty of nearly ruining Reid's relationship with his daughter, and she hasn't been so great a person, but the remorse, ok, but "I deserve to die?" I don't get it. I also don't get the need to just kill off Jackson in a fishing accident or whatever. Why? Although I guess Susan deserved some justice for the train robbery. 

I don't think it was smart to ship him off in the first place. The man is a medical genius. Linking the scarlet fever to Dove was brilliant. They can't be closing as many cases now. 

On 1/14/2017 at 10:30 PM, weyrbunny said:

I have mixed feelings about Reid’s many crimes being ignored, though.

Without a Drake or a Jackson around, I wonder how effective Reid is. Fred is still obsessed with the Ripper, so there's not any mitigating presence. 

I do like Reid sitting at the desk at the end.