S02.E09: Martial Eagle

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Philip and Elizabeth's long-planned mission turns ugly, impacting each of them in different ways. Stan digs in deeper at work as his personal life continues to unravel.

[AimingforYoko]

Stan may be a crappy husband, but he's a good agent. He doesn't even know how close he is.

[maraleia]

Wow I thought Phillip was going to kill Pastor Tim over Paige going to church and giving away her money. Elizabeth is also cracking under the pressure and I bet both of them are going to spill their guts to their kids really soon. The older they get the more they are going to notice the inconsistencies in their parent's stories so it's only a matter of time before they find out anyway.

As always a stellar episode dripping with tension and doubt.

[picklesprite]

That was a spooky and upsetting episode. Good lord, the scene with Martha was awful. Good, but awful. Poor Martha! Poor Paige! Lucky preacher to still be alive! I kept thinking, no, no, don't play that tape for Martha!! And then when Phillip yelled at his daughter, and when he confronted the preacher--he was the father from hell. This is a gutsy series that goes into interesting emotional, moral, and intellectual territory. Whew. Pardon me, while I go sip some wine and recover!

 

They're all sliding to disaster. Should be a great finale.

[Happy to be here]

Poor Martha.  She actually really really loves Clarke.  I feel really really bad for her.  She is a good woman being used in a really bad way.  Poor poor Martha.

 

Sandra is cheating on Stan.  I'd feel bad for Stan but he's been cheating on Sandra...oh hell and his country for awhile now.  Speaking of...the entire speech with the other guy about betraying his country.  I mean once you hear the words "I will never betray my country."  You can pretty much gaurentee the person is gonna betray their county.  But Stan's  was the perfect reply and perfect for him, "No one ever imagines they will."  

 

Paige continues to act like a unruly teenager.  I liked both her parents responses to the money thing.  I actually thought Phillip was going to kill the Priest their for a minute.  I was surprised at Elizabeth's response.  It was rather....parental of her.

 

Poor Henry is being ignored again.  Maybe he should start breaking into houses as a career choice.  It is the only way he gets any attention.  

[dramachick]

Yay, Sandra!  What's good for the gander...

 

Phillip was all kinds of out of control and taking his pain out on everybody.  The one good thing I can say about religion is that it can provide comfort in a time of crisis.  For a second there I thought he was going to talk to the pastor, which I think would have helped him.

 

Larick is going to be even more dangerous than he was before now that Phillip has killed two Seals.

 

I could probably never get a security clearance because my secrets are none of the government's business.  I'd just lie if I had to. 

 

Paige certainly gives her parents a lot of lip.  She got off easy with just having to clean the kitchen.

 

It seems to me that Gaad's job is gone regardless of whether the Russians stop pressing about Vlad's murder.  Maybe he salvages his career at a lower rank?

 

 

[millahnna]

Everything in the opening scenes was so dark I have exactly zero idea what happened other than Elizabeth and Phillip killing some people when they went to do the truck thing.  And was the truck driver dead when they got back to him?  I seriously couldn't see a thing.

[AlliMo]

Glad I'm not the only one who's confused about what happened to the poor truck driver. Interesting to see the infamous Oliver North get a screen credit.

 

I don't know if Philip's right when he says that Elizabeth finds it easier, but she's certainly much better at it, possibly because she's very, very good at channeling her own personal experiences into whatever character she's posing as. I imagine that could be somewhat therapeutic in a weird way.

 

The scene with the priest=Matthew Rhys' Emmy reel.

[Joystickenvy]

Everything in the opening scenes was so dark I have exactly zero idea what happened other than Elizabeth and Phillip killing some people when they went to do the truck thing.  And was the truck driver dead when they got back to him?  I seriously couldn't see a thing.

I'm not sure exactly what Elizabeth was doing. Phil was taking pictures of the camp, when a youngish guy in a suit caught him and then got Philiminated. A dude in military uniform spotted him and also got Philiminated and then they left. Truck driver guy did appear to be dead.....hypothermia maybe?

It appears Phil is not a fan of Teenage Sunday. He is definitely starting to crack and will probably be lucky if preacher guy doesn't call child services, though I reckon the fleecing a teen out of $600 thing might keep him quiet. He seemed kinda shady in a 80s tele-evangelist sort of way.

I'm not sure the, "you don't know how lucky you have it" speech has ever worked on any kid ever, but nice try Liz.

Not much sympathy for Beeman. I am feeling increasingly bad for Martha, even though her sad sack personality was so hard to empathize with in the beginning. She's gonna end up dead or in jail unless she wises up real quick like.

[millahnna]

I'm not sure the, "you don't know how lucky you have it" speech has ever worked on any kid ever, but nice try Liz.

 

 

Ranks right up there with "starving kids in wherever".  Give it to them, then.

[Happy to be here]

I am feeling increasingly bad for Martha, even though her sad sack personality was so hard to empathize with in the beginning

 

 

I am not sure why her personality came off as annoying at first but now it comes off as sympathetic.  She is one of the few truly good people on the show.  One of the few people without a secondary agenda.  She loves Clarke .  She wants Clarke to be happy and she doesn't understand why he isn't.  I am actually finding their storyline incredibly fascinating.

[NitneLiun]

The producers must have gotten a great bargain on late 80s desert camo uniforms. Both Elizabeth and Larrick were wearing them in this episode. I was in the Army in the 80s and 90s and know that these particular uniforms weren't introduced until the late 80s. When Larrick was shown wearing the desert camo in Nicaragua, I had to laugh. In the early 80s, he would have been wearing woodland pattern battle dress uniform (BDU) or tropical OD green in a jungle environment like Nicaragua. There is no way he would have been wearing desert camo, especially since they didn't exist in the early 80s when this episode took place. 

[Tara Ariano]

My post on the episode!

[Boundary]

Philip is cracking and it was hard to watch. The beauty about it is that we've seen it all season long without somebody beating us over the head with it. But now it seems he's really unravelling, and it's just the little hints. Just before going to church, just before Martha walked in, at the seafront and of course at the the end with the pastor. He still has enough in him to jolt himself and do what's required but he's dying on the inside. This season should result in Matthew's Emmy glory.

 

I couldn't watch Martha's scene with Clarke, I just fast forwarded it since I could get the gist. But I really like her when she's at the office, she's smart and allowed Stan to connect the dots to the Connors. When Stan finally figures it all out, he's going to connect Emmett to Fred, which will crack the case open, I'll credit Martha with the breakthrough.

[Dagny]

I think making Paige (hey, they didn't sell her after all) do housework will have more of an impact than "You don't know how lucky you are".

Wow, the pastor really needed a hair cut. I'd thought that he would have that slick big hair, part on the right style. Now he just looks like a hippy. 

ETA: Every time I read the title of the episode I think of the Vikings "Blood Eagle". Similarities: Blood-yes, Killing-yes, Silence-yes, Treachery-yes, Rats-no, Cracking the ribs open & pulling out the lungs to rest on the shoulders-Nope.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dagny

[attica]

Let me give props to the music for this ep. With so much tension, you don't expect a score of mournful violins. Lovely.

 

Pro Tip: When a homeless dude at the beach asks if you're ok, you're not ok.

 

Loved Sandra's hairdo. She reminded me of all those Lauren Hutton ads from the 80s with that tossable mane.

[BetyBee]

Phillip was absolutely terrifying in this episode. I was certain he would kill the pastor. It especially creeped me out because my son-in-law is a pastor and he works alone in the church at night. I even spotted a wedding ring on the pastor's hand and thought about the loss to his family. I guess Phillip decided that the pastor's beliefs are sincere, which is why he let him live. But now there is one person who cares about Paige and has an idea what at least one of her parents is like. Speaking of which, I feel that Elizabeth's anger towards Paige is kind of unfair, since she and Phillip chose to give Paige and Henry an easy life. I do think Paige deserves punishment for sneaking around in the first place, and for giving away her savings without consulting her parents, but it isn't her fault that her childhood has been easier than her parents'. 

 

Kudos to Martha for connecting Emmett and LeeAnne's murders to the big meeting.  She doesn't deserve what is probably ahead for her.

 

It's so odd to find yourself rooting for P&E, knowing that they are murderous monsters. If their kids ever find out what they are capable of, the fallout will be tragic. 

[Loandbehold]

 

Wow I thought Phillip was going to kill Pastor Tim over Paige going to church and giving away her money.

That was a fantastic scene. I have to give Pastor Tim credit for not backing down to Phillip. It looked like no matter where he went, he was soon going to be in Phil's blind side, and that never ends well.

 

Elizabeth shot that one guy on the mission, but I don't remember who he was. Was that their mission, along with getting photos of the camp? I think the driver did die of hypothermia, which is a much worse way to go then just allowing Elizabeth to have shot him instead.

 

I know they film in NY, which really hit home with the boardwalk scene. It actually looked like it was filmed near where I used to live. Do they have boardwalks in Virginia or Maryland?

 

I loved this episode, but there better not be anymore that don't have at least one Nina scene. Now that Mrs. Beemon has left, I look forward to seeing Nina's reacting when Stan tells her at their next rendezvous.

[Quando]

When Stan was interviewing all those Stealth tech guys, I just kept thinking that now Stan is going to know all of these guys deepest, darkest secrets and weak points . . . so now he will end up giving them all to the Russians when they blackmail Stan with photos of him handing over the surveillance information to Oleg by the pinball machine.  Because he has been compromised, Stan's investigation is making the Have Blue program less, not more secure.

 

Also, when Phillip walked into the church, for some reason I thought he was going to burn it down.

[Scamp]

Everything in the opening scenes was so dark I have exactly zero idea what happened other than Elizabeth and Phillip killing some people when they went to do the truck thing.  And was the truck driver dead when they got back to him?  I seriously couldn't see a thing.

 

If you can adjust your contrast and brightness settings, that will help. 

[millahnna]

First thing I treid.  Yeah that was a bad plan... washed out everything else.  Just a poorly lit scene on a lower end lcd screen.  It happens.

[Happywatcher]

 

I could probably never get a security clearance because my secrets are none of the government's business.  I'd just lie if I had to. 

 

 

If it isn't murder or theft, they just want to know. You can't be blackmailed for being gay or smoking pot if the government already knows.

[Helena Dax]

Wow, such a great episode! Philip's totally burnt out; I wonder if there were holidays for spies, especially spies that work as hard as Philip and Elizabeth. I agree that his scenes at the kitchen and the church were very intense. I'm not sure he was planning to kill the pastor, but it could have happened anyway if the pastor hadn't said the right things. I think Philip took comfort at the idea that someone really believed that he still could be saved/redeemed. 

 

Poor Martha...

 

I had to laugh at Stan's face when Sandra told him what was going on. I can't believe he was really surprised. At least he didn't try to deny he was having an affair, that would have been too much. Otoh, his investigation can save him or be his downfall. He knows things that the Russian would want to know  so the hole he's in could become deeper but if he discovered Philip and Elizabeth's real job, he'd be a hero.

[stillshimpy]

That was a spooky and upsetting episode. Good lord, the scene with Martha was awful. Good, but awful. Poor Martha!

What made it worse for me was realizing that when and if Martha won't do what Clarke/Phil wants, he's almost certainly going to kill her.  It's particularly hard to watch when both Phillip and Elizabeth keep talking about the dead Soviet Sailors and nearly being moved to tears by the callousness of the Americans planning to kill their "boys" and to think of those "boys" and meanwhile, Phillip and Elizabeth are just laying waste to all sorts of people too.  

 

Particularly watching Phillip menace the pastor with the goofy hair, who didn't back down or in anyway reveal some kind of justifying hypocrisy.  I do think he was telling the truth about the money, they clearly did think Paige's parents knew, seeing as their the ones that told Phillip and Elizabeth about Paige's generous donation in action.  

 

 

Poor Paige!

Indeed.  She knows her parents lie to her all the time.  They can't ever be home on a regular basis.  Yet, I thought Elizabeth backed up her point about Paige having no idea how easy she had it, by making things less pleasant for Paige, less cushy.  It went beyond the lecture and into action, although I was flinching on Paige's behalf.  I'm not a big fan of religion (and that's an understatement), but Paige is just lonely and looking for a foothold in life. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Joystickenvy]

 

Also, when Phillip walked into the church, for some reason I thought he was going to burn it down.

I had that thought as well, though mostly I think because I remember church burnings being in the news a lot when I was a kid, though I think that may have been mid to late 80s. Around the same time the media was trying to convince suburban parents that Dungeons & Dragons would turn their kids into devil worshipers.

[Haleth]

Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell knocked it out of the park.  Fantastic acting by both of them.  Philip and Elizabeth are speeding toward a bad, bad place.  Yeah, I thought Tim was toast.  So sad the poor septic worker guy died.

 

I hope Stan isn't going to turn all the info he is getting about the scientists over to the Russians.  Will he stumble over who killed Emmett and LeeAnn?  Maybe it was Fred?  Wouldn't that be an interesting revelation?  (Or do we know for sure it was Larrick?)

 

Loved the coffee break with Arkady and Gaad.  When Gaad was packing up I kept waiting for him to drop the pen in the box or at least look at it like he was wondering where it came from.

 

Poor Martha.

[90PercentGravity]

MR was so amazing this episode. Wow.

 

Something that stood out to me was that Martha was giving Clark the kind of support that Elizabeth never has for Phillip. I have a feeling that when the time comes to take care of Martha, Phillip won't be able to do it.

 

So, how did Emmett and Leanne figure out that Larick was gay? I have a feeling the relationship with Emmett and the bald agent guy was more than friendly (I've thought so since he was first introduced, he was way too broken up), and that will become an issue at some point in the new future.

[Hanahope]

So, the person that killed the Conners was a DoJ bodyguard (and the DoJ isn't sharing info with the FBI that the Connors could be or were Russian spies)?  Or perhaps a corporate bodyguard/security person for Fred's company that thought the Connors were corporate spys for another defense contractor?  I love how the pieces to that mystery are slowly falling into place.

 

The killing really is getting to Phillip, but good for the priest to give him some little light of hope.  Definitely did save the priest's butt from a major whomping.  I had thought Phillip wasn't going to play the tape for Martha, but maybe he still had to push her a bit more for the new intel and it made him feel slightly better.

 

Elizabeth is affected by it too, but she just has the ability to compartementalize it better.  I wonder if that's because she was raped when she was younger and was able to/had to close it off in a box in order to get past it.  So when she has to do other unpleasant things (and somehow I doubt she's loves having to use her body all the time) she just adds more to the box.

[Carrie Ann]

So, how did Emmett and Leanne figure out that Larick was gay? I have a feeling the relationship with Emmett and the bald agent guy was more than friendly (I've thought so since he was first introduced, he was way too broken up), and that will become an issue at some point in the new future.

Well, we've seen Larick in the alley of a gay bar, so I'm guessing it didn't take long for anyone surveilling him to figure it out. 

[Catherinewriter]

When Philip donned the gloves, I really thought he was either going to kill or beat the crap out of the pastor. When he didn't I sighed with relief but still wondered why he was so angry. Was it because he thought the church folks were conning the kids into give them money (which is not far off the tract with many churches)?

Martha becomes more likeable as a character each week. I have to hope that she'll be allowed a way out, maybe not one that she cooks up, but one that spirals out of the chaos of what the hell's going on. Wonder if she will call her "sister-in-law" Elizabeth again out of her concern for Clarke.

Arkady is a very good actor and dresser. Just sayin'.

Where are Nina and Oleg?

[beeble]

Philip is clearly at a breaking point (and the sad cello music certainly underscored that rather heavily); Matthew Rhys is doing excellent work here.  But I found Elizabeth's reaction of (paraphrase) "You think its easy for me?" to be very interesting as well. Someone mentioned how she can compartmentalize much better but I wonder if she has a breaking point as well. She is rock solid in her ideology, but she is clearly thinking of communism in its most idealized form. Definitely the poverty and inequality in America sicken her, but she can't possibly think that her upbringing in post-war Soviet poverty was a good thing. She's generally quite happy that Paige and Henry are able to have the comfort that they have. It's only when her kids don't listen that she brings up the "I never had anything nice" argument. Kudos to Keri Russell for providing such strong characterization for a very complicated character. 

 

I love how P/E make bad parenting decisions. This will soooo bite them in the ass. I found Elizabeth's behavior towards Paige to be over the top. Paige has always been a good kid, and her punishment was not warranted.  The money was hers to spend. She made a decision, and while it wasn't her parents' first choice, it was clear that they were mad that she spent money on something churchy, not on a trip to Europe.  They run a freaking travel agency, for Pete's sake, so they could get her a discounted trip anyway, if it was that important to them.  Paige is getting very mixed signals, and considering what she could be getting into in the early 80's,  I'm surprised she's not countering with "I do my homework, I don't do drugs, I don't sleep around, I haven't dyed my hair purple, I dress exactly like my mother, I do everyone's laundry - even when you don't ask me to - what is your deal??" Since they've provided her with very little identity beyond their nuclear unit of four punctuated with an ambiguous "be grateful you don't have our childhood," their all-American girl is going to slip from their grasp soon.  Shoot, I'm sure any of us could have shown Elizabeth what it meant to have an actual rebellious teenager.  

 

I was very happy to see Martha essentially crack open the case for Stan. She is very good at her job.  I keep thinking she should have some residual spidey-sense of Clark not being all that he says he is, but then I remember Nina's monologue about Cops vs. Spies.  Still, since Martha is working with classified stuff all the time in Counter-Intelligence, wouldn't higher-ups know to occasionally check and recheck the staff? Maybe I'm thinking of The Good Wife where we saw NSA contractors get weekly lie-detector tests.  I have no idea what the FBI protocol was or is, but they usually run a very tight ship. 

 

Gaad packed the pen-microphone.  Either it stays in the box in his attic or he'll reach in needing to sign for a UPS package and lightbulbs will go off. In any case, I think his "my problem is now your problem" went of very well with Arkady. Arkady isn't going to fold easily, so he upped and left before he could start twitching or giving some equivalent of a tell.  Arkady has a big problem now. They're all playing the same game.

 

Oliver North. What a fucking cockroach. (Um Clive Bundy - want to see a real example of gov't overreach? Just google this guy.) Otherwise, an awesome episode.

[Joystickenvy]

 

I love how P/E make bad parenting decisions. This will soooo bite them in the ass. I found Elizabeth's behavior towards Paige to be over the top. Paige has always been a good kid, and her punishment was not warranted.  The money was hers to spend. She made a decision, and while it wasn't her parents' first choice, it was clear that they were mad that she spent money on something churchy, not on a trip to Europe.  They run a freaking travel agency, for Pete's sake, so they could get her a discounted trip anyway, if it was that important to them.  Paige is getting very mixed signals, and considering what she could be getting into in the early 80's,  I'm surprised she's not countering with "I do my homework, I don't do drugs, I don't sleep around, I haven't dyed my hair purple, I dress exactly like my mother, I do everyone's laundry - even when you don't ask me to - what is your deal??" Since they've provided her with very little identity beyond their nuclear unit of four punctuated with an ambiguous "be grateful you don't have our childhood," their all-American girl is going to slip from their grasp soon.  Shoot, I'm sure any of us could have shown Elizabeth what it meant to have an actual rebellious teenager.  

 

.

I agree that the parental reaction was OTT and probably ineffective, but it was also probably somewhat realistic. I hardly ever got into any real trouble as a teen. I didn't drink, do drugs, sneak out of the house, shop lift, skip school or any of the myriad things a lot of my friends did. My freshman year of high school, I let one of my friends fake a note saying I could get off the school bus at my friend's house, instead of my own stop and got caught. My parents flipped the fuck out because I lied to them and forged their name to something. They didn't make me get up in the middle of the night to do chores, but there was plenty of screaming and guilt tripping. Ironically, they couldn't really ground me from much, because I spent most my free time reading books and doing homework. End result, I quit trying so hard to walk the straight and narrow, cuz I figured I'd catch hell for something anyway and I started being much more sneaky, because I didn't want to get caught. By the end of my high school career I skipped 50something days (memorable because I was one more skipped day short of not graduating due to attendance) and turned in a faked excuse slip for every one of em and my grades went from straight As to Bs & Cs because I stayed out so late every night I couldn't stay awake in school. So, no.....not terribly effective. Of course maybe my teen rebellion just kicked in late.

I guess in a way, parents reaction to "good kids" getting in relatively mild trouble vs parents of more stereotypically rebellious teenagers getting into mild trouble may be similar to the differing reactions an A student and a C student gets to receiving a B.

What was kind of odd to me was their reaction to Henry vs Paige. I guess part of it is that Paige has already been schooled for lying, plus their anti-church sentiment & Phil's mental state, but I'm pretty sure my parents would have been much more upset about breaking into the neighbor's house than giving money to the church, unless I stole it or something. I suppose the "trip to Europe" might have been something they were invested in as exposing Paige to her true heritage, depending on where she was supposed to go.

[Number6]

It's so odd to find yourself rooting for P&E, knowing that they are murderous monsters. If their kids ever find out what they are capable of, the fallout will be tragic. 

I rather have the opposite feeling. I am hoping for everything to be exposed and P&E get jailed and Paige + Henry learn all the truths. Or even better, P&E getting done in by thier own KGB overlords.

[picklesprite]

This episode has  stayed with me. I keep thinking of that terrifying closeup of Phillip when he was yelling at his daughter. What must that have been like for Paige to take the force of it? I think it must have been like seeing your beloved dad turn into a monster. He looked, in that moment, as if he hated her. We know he was hating himself at a deep level, but she wouldn't' know that; she'll only know he came at her like a dragon's head and breathed fiery hatred at her. Really, it was awful, from a parental/child point of view, albeit amazing from a dramatic one. Then her mother gives her not one ounce of sympathy or understanding, and then later also comes at her shockingly. On the surface Paige seemed to take it all calmly, but beneath the surface, things must be roiling inside of her. I just want to tell her, "Honey, it's not you. Your parents are stone killers and fucking crazy right now."

 

I know it's been suggested that maybe Phillip is developing love for Martha, and maybe he is, but I have a hard time believing he didn't do that tape reveal partly out of sheer meanness. Right now, he seems to want to distribute pain, maybe in order to dillute his own.

 

What a fabulous script and matching performances.

 

 

[Hal25]

I know it's been suggested that maybe Phillip is developing love for Martha, and maybe he is, but I have a hard time believing he didn't do that tape reveal partly out of sheer meanness. Right now, he seems to want to distribute pain, maybe in order to dillute his own.

 

I can't see anything we've seen that even allows me room to think Philip is developing love for Martha. Not even vague romantic inclinations. I don't think he wants to hurt her, but it's clear the whole thing is one big con. The act he put on at her apartment was designed to lessen her attachment to Gaad and get her willing to go in deeper spy-wise for him and Elizabeth. He needed to ask her to start poking around for information on the Stealth project, and given how she's been reluctant even to keep up with the bug, there was no way she was going to go for it unless he made her feel Gaad wasn't on her side and he (Clark) was super loyal and sympathetic. It's a cruel thing to do, but then I also don't see meanness in it either. I think he may be resigned to the fact that his job just results in him being a monster who hurts people, but his actions seem not like "I'm hurting so I'll hurt everyone around me" (he actually has been trying hard NOT to hurt people--not playing the tape until he had to, not wanting to kill Lewis) but rather "I'm just inherently a monster. Even when I try not to hurt people, I still wind up hurting them because I'm just inherently awful." Philip's going through a pretty awful time. Hurting others makes him feel worse, not better.

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess I'm just surprised that Philip is not more careful with bringing attention and a possible police investigation upon himself.  His behavior at the church was way over the top and he should not be surprised to have police contact him about it.  Lapses in judgment like that are dangerous.  Man, I shudder to think what he might do if Paige was caught with drugs or got pregnant.

 

I've always loved Martha. She's my favorite character.  I am surprised that she didn't immediately tell Philip about how she made a suggestion to Stan at work about those terrible murders and got positive reinforcement.  (Before he played the tape.)

 

I still don't understand why Philip and Elizabeth have never shown much interest in the fact Stan is having an affair.  I would think they would be all over that.  It's great ammo to have in case they need it.

[lucindabelle]

I don't know, saying it's her money and hers to spend doesn't wash with me. $600 even today is something that has to be declared on taxes, and in 1982 it was a HELL of a lot of money. NO upstanding religious organization should ever accept that kind of income from a minor without all kinds of written documents and calling the paernts. "We thought you knew?" Yeah, you did so much due diligence. What's one phone call?

Seriously, that would not hold up in any court of law. Minors do not have the same legal rights as adults and it would be easy to make a case that Paige was lured into giving away her entire savings. I can't imagine how Paige thought they wouldn't find out-- except that she's a teenager-- and that the church thought it was fine, without checking, kind of underscores that the church is not the innocent place it seemed. Kind of a shame because you can see Philip wants some kind of salvation and feels bad about the four deaths on the mission.

But taking money from children is not the way to go.

 

I was scared for the preacher but firmly on Philip's side. That preacher and that church are not good people.

[Joystickenvy]

I definitely agree that the church people should have talked to the parents first. That much money from a kid not old enough to have a job should at least throw up flags about just where the money came from......college fund? Snatched the rent money? At the very least, they should be checking if the parents want a receipt for tax purposes.

OTOH, if they were being totally Tammy Faye talking grannies out of their life savings sneaky, why mention the donations to the parents at all? I'm not sure what we're supposed to think. Shady preacher talking kids out of their savings or hippy dippy naive?

What makes me lean toward shady is I'd think an up and up church would apologize more sincerely and refund the money without a fuss, instead of being all....oh really? You're gonna beat me up over $600? but then again, Phil didn't come to him like a reasonable adult, so maybe that put his back up.

[90PercentGravity]

I don't think Phillip is in love with Martha, but I do think he has developed some affection for it. He probably doesn't even realize it. She gives him comfort and support in a way that Elizabeth does not.

[sistermagpie]

Elizabeth is affected by it too, but she just has the ability to compartementalize it better.  I wonder if that's because she was raped when she was younger and was able to/had to close it off in a box in order to get past it.  So when she has to do other unpleasant things (and somehow I doubt she's loves having to use her body all the time) she just adds more to the box.

 

I don't think she compartmentalizes at all, actually. I think what puts her in a better place about this specific issue is that she believes that she's ultimately doing good with whatever she does. She sees the truck driver as a casualty in a just war while Philip has started taking more personal responsibility, questioning what specific good came out of whatever action he took. Elizabeth is much more of a whole person most of the time, I think, where she always knows who she really is and the lies are more superficial.

 

What was kind of odd to me was their reaction to Henry vs Paige. I guess part of it is that Paige has already been schooled for lying, plus their anti-church sentiment & Phil's mental state, but I'm pretty sure my parents would have been much more upset about breaking into the neighbor's house than giving money to the church, unless I stole it or something. I suppose the "trip to Europe" might have been something they were invested in as exposing Paige to her true heritage, depending on where she was supposed to go.

 

 

Henry was already upset about what he'd done and clearly understood what the problem was. Paige, perhaps because of her age and probably also her personality, has consistently reacted to her parents this season by rolling her eyes and being dismissive of them. Not only did she not care about their opinions, she considered herself and the pastor morally superior.

 

RE: the church, I think they're supposed to be basically on the up and up but I agree that accepting the money was simply wrong. It was wrong whether they assumed her parents knew or not. I don't think they're supposed to be conning everyone, but I think they're basically focused on grabbing as many kids and others as converts as possible and it never occurs to them to think anything else has to matter. Everybody needs to come to Jesus by any means necessary.

[lucindabelle]

Even if they believe that everbody needs to be saved, they should understand that that doesn't include taking everybody's money. A decent organization should have checked everything out in advance, a kid with that much money that new to the organization whose parents they never met-- that should raise all kinds of red flags (for all they know, she's selling drugs to get it).

[ShellSeeker]

I can't see anything we've seen that even allows me room to think Philip is developing love for Martha. Not even vague romantic inclinations. I don't think he wants to hurt her, but it's clear the whole thing is one big con. 

 

I agree. I do think that he cares about her, and he can see that she's an inherently decent person. While I don't think he could ever love her, I do think he feels badly for what he's doing to her. I think even Elizabeth feels badly too, because in the scene in the basement where Phillip first played the doctored tape for her, I could see that she thought it was a very cruel thing to do, even though it was necessary to get Martha to turn against Gaad. 

 

Phillip ripping pages out of the Bible and yelling at Paige was some seriously scary shit. 

[Hal25]

I don't think Phillip is in love with Martha, but I do think he has developed some affection for it. He probably doesn't even realize it. She gives him comfort and support in a way that Elizabeth does not.

 

I think it's important to discern that actually, she does not. She gives comfort and support never to Philip, always to a fake person Philip is pretending to be. Philip is not on the receiving end of good feelings, loving gestures, kind words... that's all a fake person he really isn't. Does anyone really think that if Philip walked up to Martha and said, "Martha, I am a KGB spy who is using you for information. My real wife (who I am very much in love with) and I picked you out because you were desperate and gullible enough to fall for our lies. We manipulated you and got you to believe I cared about you so you would feed us FBI intelligence and we could pass it on to the KGB. I killed Chris Amador after he followed me from your apartment. I doctored this tape to make you feel bad about yourself and alienate you from Gaad. I will continue using you and making you think I love you until you are useless, and then I will dispose of you"... that Martha would still be saying those things? Of course she wouldn't. She doesn't love the "real" Philip. She loves a fake lie. Elizabeth knows all the things Philip does and still loves him. That's a HUGE thing. Philip wouldn't get any good feelings from Martha being gushy over Clark. If anything, it would make him feel worse about who he really is, every time.

 

This isn't to say Philip actively hates Martha. I'm sure he doesn't. She annoys him at times. He thinks she's a decent person at others. But I don't think he's sitting around getting good feelings from anything she says either.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Hal25

[fastiller]

Did they tell us whether Paige gave the $600 in one donation?  How long has she been attending the church (it's hard for me to tell time-spans on this show)?  Is it possible that it was donated over weeks/months?  I do think that even a $50 donation should have tipped them off, but if the donations were in small sums, it better explains why they didn't ask P&E.

[Milburn Stone]

I tend to think it was a lump sum. My main evidence is the ready knowledge of the exact dollar figure. If Paige had been giving the money in dribs and drabs over the weeks, I think the pastor would have said something like, "we're grateful for the donations Paige has made to the church." Having "$600" at the tip of his fingers tells me there was a check or lump cash sum in that amount. 

[90PercentGravity]

Did the pastor say $600? I think they got that info from Paige off camera.

[Milburn Stone]

Did the pastor say $600? I think they got that info from Paige off camera.

 

Not sure, but I think the pastor said the figure in the confrontation. (I suppose Philip could have said it first, though.) 

[Orbert]

I don't think that Philip is necessarily developing feelings for Martha, but when they were sitting there together, and he was all messed up (Philip because everything seems to be going to shit lately, but ostensibly Clark because he has some really disturbing stuff on tape about Martha), Martha was very sympathetic and very comforting.  There was just a moment where Philip reacted to that comfort.  Even if it was for Clark and not Philip, it felt good, and was a comfort that (as others have pointed out) he never gets from Elizabeth.  And then Philip seemed to realize what was happening, or got confused, and decided to get the hell out of there, either way.

 

Philip has always been very good at keeping his Clark persona separate from himself.  Unlike his "one-off" characters, this one's a long con, so he has to.  I wonder if Elizabeth's failed "be Clark for me" experiment, which forced him to break down the separation he'd so carefully built up, even if only briefly, has had some kind of repercussions.  He was mentally and physically exhausted, he'd had a REALLY crappy day, and whether he knew it or not, the guy needed a hug.  Here it was, and it felt good, even if it wasn't "really" for him.

[Hal25]

Even if it was for Clark and not Philip, it felt good, and was a comfort that (as others have pointed out) he never gets from Elizabeth.  And then Philip seemed to realize what was happening, or got confused, and decided to get the hell out of there, either way.

 

He was mentally and physically exhausted, he'd had a REALLY crappy day, and whether he knew it or not, the guy needed a hug.  Here it was, and it felt good, even if it wasn't "really" for him.

 

I actually disagree that he never gets that from Elizabeth. Elizabeth has been shown to be quite loving with him this season. She's not prone to gushing her heart out but then, neither is the real Philip (you always have to remember the way he acts as "Clark" is a big con.) They tend to share their true emotions with one another in more reserved and personal ways, sometimes in emotional times fully saying how they feel, and more often they have an understood, wordless way of comforting each other that shows how well in touch they are. Elizabeth is in some ways more freely giving with emotion than Philip. He's the only one who's said "I love you" but as a general pattern, she tends to offer truer slices of herself to him.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one because I don't feel that false hugs offered to a man who isn't him actually feel "good" to Philip--I think they feel the opposite and that's why he stays carefully in "Clark's" head the whole time and doesn't let Martha anywhere near the real man. Philip is feeling so awful because of the horrible things he's forced to do. Not only the murdering, but the horrible thing he's doing to Martha. Having Martha be all gushy and demonstrative as he's having to do something horrible that will wind up destroying her in the end is about like if he knows he has to kill some kid and it's this sweet, innocent child who smiles up at him, takes his hand and says he's a nice man and she trusts him. That won't make the murder easier to commit. It won't make him smile inside and feel great about himself and have a good warm feeling for a minute that this sweet little kid he's about to murder thought he was a good man. It would make him feel a thousand times worse. And what he's doing to Martha is really no different.

 

The show is playing at obvious parallels with things Elizabeth doesn't do in a relationship and things Martha does in the fake one, just like it plays with all things in that manner (Philip is the family man who protects her relationship with her kids while Gregory is the guy who tells her to run off on her kids and that she should be willing to sacrifice them for the cause) but I see the way they're doing it with Martha as merely highlighting the sadness of the whole thing for both Elizabeth and Philip. Elizabeth gets to feel in control of her honey traps because she hates every last one of them as a rape survivor. Philip hears false words of love for the false men he portrays from Martha because he was always the one who wanted to be loved by Elizabeth in the years it wasn't reciprocated. But that doesn't mean Elizabeth is loving the sex she's having with random marks for work and it doesn't mean Philip is enjoying the fake-love the women he's fooling are throwing at his alter-egos.

[John Potts]

A lot of nice moments but overall kinda meh*. It didn't help that I wasn't sure exactly what Philizabeth were trying to achieve and that when their plan was enacted, it was almost impossible to see what was going on (I get that it was night and that they were being covert, but that's why films show "The Plan" (so we know what's meant to happen and when things are going wrong).

 

But despite "The Raid" being a bit dull, there were a lot of vignettes that I loved. I thought Arkady was brilliant in the diner scene with Gaad - now there's a guy who knows how to keep a poker face (which you'd expect as a top spy). I also liked how Philip used his anger at the mission being less than a stirring success (and his subsequent anger with Paige) to fuel his anger when "clueing in" Martha, who at least got one moment of brilliance when she connected the "Big Meet" with the murders of Emmet and LeAnne.  But seriously, when you're an FBI employee who can't see that there's something wrong with her marriage but Sandra can, I'm going to think you an idiot.

 

Loandbehold I have to give Pastor Tim credit for not backing down to Phillip.

 

I thought the Pastor came off well in that confrontation. I do love the way that Philizabeth, despite attempting to portray the "All American Family" are so aggressively anti-religion. But I thought the Pastor had a great "Passing through Gethsemene" vibe - ready to face whatever trials his beliefs brought him (though he definitely should have asked more questions when Paige donated $600).

 

Dagny I think making Paige (hey, they didn't sell her after all) do housework will have more of an impact than "You don't know how lucky you are".

 

I agree that it's likely to have more impact, even if it was more about Elizabeth working out her frustrations on her daughter (and I assume you meant to add anther word after "sell her" because I'm pretty sure that selling your daughter has been illegal for a couple of centuries).

 

* I love the fact that spellcheck objects to "kinda" but accepts "meh" as correct!