S08.E11: Sarge & Pea

[Artsda]

Quote

Jay, Claire and Mitch attend a family wedding and unexpectedly run into Dede at the reception.  

Edited January 12, 2017 by Artsda

[voiceover]

Finally.  FINALLY!!!

An episode I could get behind.  The boys -- no; the Cam/girls sl was okayyy.  But Dede and Jay?  Utterly charming.  And I was touched by their apology to their children (I admit I was holding my breath that it would end sweetly, and not with a blow-up).

Is it that Shelley and Ed are old pros at this -- and that's why their time together felt seamless and perfect?  I cannot praise them enough.

[AnnaRose]

39 minutes ago, voiceover said:

But Dede and Jay?  Utterly charming.  And I was touched by their apology to their children (I admit I was holding my breath that it would end sweetly, and not with a blow-up).

Yeah, I was holding my breath too, and hoping they wouldn't turn hostile.  It was so nice to see them getting along.

[indeed]

If Cam was nice to the lady - especially after what she said about her son - instead of being an ass, she probably would've shared the video.  But no, better to be an ass.  Ugh.

Edited January 12, 2017 by indeed

[MadyGirl1987]

So is Alex officially a college dropout now? I know they said she was taking a semester off because of the mono but wouldn't the new semester be starting already? Also, the line about how last year she was at CalTech and now is a Barista...

Loved the Jay and Dede part. You can tell O'Neil and Long are old pros.

[Michel]

Jay, Claire, Mitchell, and Dede probably had the best storyline of the episode.  While there were some titter-worthy moments from Phil, Gloria, Luke, and Manny's storyline, I just couldn't with the storyline as a whole.  Though at least Phil and Gloria realized that they were making the whole thing about themselves.  Ditto Luke and Manny realizing that they were doing the same thing.

Cam, Haley, and Alex just worked so well together on-screen.  But I agree that Cam should've been nicer to Ana, even though I completely understood why he was angry with her.  I'm no parent, but if I were, and I'd missed that because of her rudeness, I'd be pissed off, too.  But at least he did admit that he understood her actions a bit more by the end.  So . . . silver lining, at least.

No Lily or Joe tonight.  Did anyone even see Lily on that stage?  I sure didn't.

[DrSpaceman73]

Not the funniest episode. 

 

DeDe and Jay story was nice, but not real funny. 

Cam is just irritating.  The way he acted is not excused by what the woman did.  Tried to break into her Ipad, faked being her blind date, berated her even after she explained about her son.  He is such a self centered narcissist. 

Luke and Manny story, ehhh......not much there.  Just a set up to get them into the same college together. 

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

Is it that Shelley and Ed are old pros at this -- and that's why their time together felt seamless and perfect?  I cannot praise them enough.

Who would have thought Diane Chambers and Al Bundy would have made a good couple?

[luna1122]

This was my fave episode in awhile. It felt like an older episode, which is a good thing.  DeDe and Jay have always been so ugly with, and about, one another that their being polite, even kind, even sentimental with each other was really sweet. And I do love the different dynamics it brought...Clare and Mitchell without their respective partners, Jay away from Gloria and Cam, Haley and Alex scheming together. Fun.

I'm still a little worried about that completely adorable tiny pig-a-let tho. What became of it?

[tennisgurl]

I liked that they got some interesting pairings this episode, with Claire and Mitchell with Dede and Jay, Gloria and Phil, and Cam/Alex/Haley. 

I really liked the DeDe and Jay stuff, and their apology to Claire and Mitchell and their issues being aired in an actual low key way was really nice. Not really hilarious, but really nice to see. 

I am not sure about Cam taking down the rude mom. He did kind of come off as petty and ridiculous spending all this time on a fake date with this woman who annoyed him and was rude, but she really did seem rude, both at the recital and to Alex. But she didn't seem so awful that she fully deserved a take down. 

[indeed]

He did kind of come off as petty and ridiculous

Kind of? As the "wronged" parent, the priority should have been getting the lady to show him/share the video.  He could have easily done that nicely and then, if he had to, taken her down - and maybe regret a little more that he did that after hearing about her son.  End with her being rude to Alex so Cam is "justified" and doesn't learn his lesson AGAIN...but that wouldn't have been funny.

i did like the combo of Haley/Alex/Cam, just not what the writers chose to do there.

Did anyone even see Lily on that stage?

It must have been the shortest solo ever.  Within like three seconds he missed it.  (And there goes Cam spending an extreme amount of money without Mitchell knowing...again.)

The best part was Sarge and Pea.  I usually like the sibling stuff with Claire and Mitch, but that was a bit annoying.  The Gloria, Phil, and boys scenario was a little flat (and come on, trying to have a conversation by bells?!).  I enjoyed Haley's and Alex's college visits more.

[VCRTracking]

The Jay and Dede stuff story was great. I could never picture young Al Bundy-era Ed O'Neil and Diane Chambers-era Shelly Long of the 80s together but now I can.

The Cam stuff recently hadn't bothered me until now. Now I do think it's too much.

Edited January 12, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Scott]

4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I'm still a little worried about that completely adorable tiny pig-a-let tho. What became of it?

Breakfast, I presume.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I would be more upset about the mom yelling at Alex about her ipad if not for the the fact that they DID actually move and try to break into her ipad, though they didn't steal it.  And Alex works at the store.  As an employee I would think that is an offense that would get you fired if you get caught. So they/she kind of deserved it, she was just yelling at her for the wrong reason. 

[MaryMitch]

43 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I would be more upset about the mom yelling at Alex about her ipad if not for the the fact that they DID actually move and try to break into her ipad, though they didn't steal it.  And Alex works at the store.  As an employee I would think that is an offense that would get you fired if you get caught. So they/she kind of deserved it, she was just yelling at her for the wrong reason. 

Why was it Alex's job to watch that lady's iPad?  What kind of idiot leaves an expensive item on a table to go to the restroom in a restaurant?

[cpcathy]

Fun fact: Ed O'Neill was briefly considered for the part of Sam on Cheers, back when the character was supposed to be a football player.

[DarkRaichu]

51 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

Why was it Alex's job to watch that lady's iPad?  What kind of idiot leaves an expensive item on a table to go to the restroom in a restaurant?

She also left her OPEN hand bag on the chair, just so Alex could drop the iPad in there...   :P 

Edited January 12, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, MaryMitch said:

Why was it Alex's job to watch that lady's iPad?  What kind of idiot leaves an expensive item on a table to go to the restroom in a restaurant?

its not her job to watch her IPad. 

But Alex should also not be trying to help break into the iPad of customers at the store where she works, especially for such a petty and stupid reason, right out in the open where everyone can see her doing it, which is what she did. 

Which is why I say the lady yelling at her was justified, she was just doing it for the wrong reason. 

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I'm still a little worried about that completely adorable tiny pig-a-let tho. What became of it?

As soon as you wrote pig-a-let...I smiled.

Does anyone think Hailey should have gone for the blind date who was so into her (after of course letting him know her real age, name, and that she knew nothing about earthquakes or birds)?

He was younger then Ranier Shine and better looking then Andy.  He would probably talked about how pretty she was all day.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

17 hours ago, Michel said:

Did anyone even see Lily on that stage?  I sure didn't.

I also didn't see a boy on stage. Where was the iPad lady's son? Did he run on and then off? Was he dressed in a tutu? I don't think that was what they were implying.

[maraleia]

I hate that they have Alex working as a barista and not at Cal Tech. I want to know why they chose to keep her character at home this year because it's a stupid story idea.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

33 minutes ago, maraleia said:

I hate that they have Alex working as a barista and not at Cal Tech. I want to know why they chose to keep her character at home this year because it's a stupid story idea.

The Middle has two characters at a college close to their home.  They return home a lot, but the show also spends a fair amount of time at their college.  However, they represent 2/5 or 40% of the main cast.  Modern Family has 6 adults and 4 teenagers in their main cast, so Alex's character is only 10% of the cast (even less if you count Lily or Joe.)  The writers can't afford to spend too much separate time on only 10% of the cast, so they brought her home. When Haley was at college, they tried to keep her in the storyline by having her Skype in.  Then they had her drop out in order to be more fully integrated into the storyline.  They couldn't do that again for Alex, so they gave her mono so that she would have to take a leave of absence.  It's either that, have her missing from most episodes.

[biakbiak]

11 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The writers can't afford to spend too much separate time on only 10% of the cast, so they brought her home. When Haley was at college, they tried to keep her in the storyline by having her Skype in. 

They did that with Alex as well.

Edited January 13, 2017 by biakbiak

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The writers can't afford to spend too much separate time on only 10% of the cast, so they brought her home. When Haley was at college, they tried to keep her in the storyline by having her Skype in. 

They did that with Alex as well.

You're right, they did, but I guess they felt they couldn't realistically sustain it.

Does anyone recall any sitcoms where characters who grew up and went to college were successfully still integrated into the show? The Cosby Show spun off A Different World so that Denise could be followed once she went to college (and so they could have a second successful show) and Family Ties manufactured a reason for Alex P. Keaton to live at home and commute to college, but I can't recall how any other shows besides The Middle, which I mentioned above, have handled the college situation.  Blackish will be dealing with this issue very soon, and I'm betting that eldest child Zoey will not be attending Brown like her in-show mother, unless the actress attends college in real life and needs to spend time away from the show.

Edited January 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[paulvdb]

On most family sitcoms kids live at home when they go to college. Sometimes they'll get their own semi-independent living situation like Will and Carlton on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air where they moved into the pool house. Or they'll spend a lot of time at home like Axl and Sue on The Middle. It's very rare for kids on family sitcoms to go to college far away from their home town. It only happens when the actor leaves the show.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Manny should not choose a college just because Luke is going there. College is the time to meet new people who don't have preconceived notions concerning who you are. That is true for both of them. This is the chance for Luke to shed his "dumb" label and for Manny to meet people who won't find him effete. That's hard to do when you're hanging out with your childhood "homey" (for want of a better word.)

[qtpye]

23 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Manny should not choose a college just because Luke is going there. College is the time to meet new people who don't have preconceived notions concerning who you are. That is true for both of them. This is the chance for Luke to shed his "dumb" label and for Manny to meet people who won't find him effete. That's hard to do when you're hanging out with your childhood "homey" (for want of a better word.)

It is even more stupid when you consider that Manny and Luke are not even that close and they do not have similar interests.

Manny would choose a school with a strong writing program and Luke would probably love a party school (though both could be at the same college).

It is obvious that neither child has grown into being a good actor, so the writers are probably going to try to pair them in an "odd couple" type of way.  Maybe they will make them roommates?

Luke will be the dumb lovable scamp that is always getting into trouble, and Manny will the uptight anal one who just needs to loosen up.

[readster]

The problem has been with all the kids on the show when college has been an obstacle for the show is they choose some very poor ways to keep them on the show. Problem with Hailey is she seriously got kicked out of college for very, and I do mean very stupid reasons. You could tell she fell out of the window and the cop just happened to be there. Also, nothing stopped Phil and Claire from saying: "Go to a community college, otherwise find your own place." Things with Alex has been: "College, is so big and I'm so small, I can't do this, Sanjai doesn't love me, I can't fit in here either... waha!" Um... this is Alex who couldn't wait to break out of home, get into a place where she could grow or know she wouldn't be the odd one out. Now, she couldn't handle the pressure, mono is the excuse and now works at a local coffee bar? Ummm... who is this? Now, with Luke him basically telling Phil to stop being his cheerleader, he knows he isn't smart and Phil realizing that he maybe needs to scale back and let his kids realize they aren't perfect. Yet, them trying to have it now that Manny is going to hate going to college because it might be "too fun"? Ummm... this is too much. 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

It is even more stupid when you consider that Manny and Luke are not even that close and they do not have similar interests.

Manny would choose a school with a strong writing program and Luke would probably love a party school (though both could be at the same college).

It is obvious that neither child has grown into being a good actor, so the writers are probably going to try to pair them in an "odd couple" type of way.  Maybe they will make them roommates?

Luke will be the dumb lovable scamp that is always getting into trouble, and Manny will the uptight anal one who just needs to loosen up.

I don't buy for a second that Manny would choose his safety school just to be with Luke. That's the exact opposite of his personality.

I really wish the show would just stop using those characters after they graduate high school, except for when they're home for holidays or special occasions.

[vibeology]

I think the reason the college thing bugs me so much (with Alex and now Manny and Luke since I do think Haley getting in was a long shot and not making it makes sense) is that I don't know why the show feels the need to worry about this too much. Claire runs a business and yet she's around all the time for shenanigans. Before Jay retired that was true of him too. Mitch should be busy with work and depending on what job Cam has held at various points you'd think he wouldn't have so much free time either. Phil has the most flexible job of the lot so I get why he seems to be around more often but my bigger point is we don't explain it away with the adults, why even bother with the kids. Caltech is close to home. There are so many school in southern California for Manny and Luke. Just send them to school nearby and use them as often as you do now. Have school be a plot occasionally the way Phil or Claire's jobs are but don't center the show around it. People have weekends and days off and weird class schedules and other things. The show spend barely any time explaining why the adults are always available for plots; I don't understand why they think they need to spend any more time on the kids.

[indeed]

The two boys are close - they're practically inseparable...in scenes.  Unfortunately, I doubt that way leads to them being partially written off next year.  (Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and the actors will want to go to college in real life.). Really, they get too much screen time together already and the Manny actor in particular (IMO) is not very good.  I can see wanting to keep Haley and Alex in the mix, but occasional appearances by the guys wouldn't be a bad thing.  

The kids aren't always in the episodes, so they should be able to come up with ways to keep Alex at Cal Tech and Luke and Manny in school.  I really don't care to follow Luke and Manny at college and all of those standalone scenes with only them *yawn, cringe* .  

Edited January 13, 2017 by indeed

[DarkRaichu]

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I also didn't see a boy on stage. Where was the iPad lady's son? Did he run on and then off? Was he dressed in a tutu? I don't think that was what they were implying.

I thought that was exactly what she was implying.

All I saw was kids with tutu on stage.  I did not bother to rewind and do frame by frame analysis though :P

[needschocolate]

Oh, Cam. Always having to take anything that doesn't go his way as a personal affront.  Yes, she was rude to stand up and block his view, but he could have just walked up to her after the recital and said "I noticed that you taped the dance my daughter was is, could you send me the video?" if she objected (and I can't imagine why she would), then he could point out that he missed it because she was blocking his view.  Or, if she sends him the video and he is still annoyed, he could mention to her that if she wants to tape it on a large ipad, she should stand off to the side.  

However, unfortunately, the character of Cam is not unrealistic - I have known people who take every opportunity to be offended and then blather on and on about it.  It is annoying to be around, and being a tv character doesn't make it any better.  Cam is annoying.

On 1/12/2017 at 5:02 AM, qtpye said:

Who would have thought Diane Chambers and Al Bundy would have made a good couple?

I have been working from home a lot lately and have been streaming Cheers as background noise.  I am nearing the end of the series and there was a scene where Diane appears on TV.  Then, a few hours later, Didi pops up on Modern Family.  

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, indeed said:

Unfortunately, I doubt that way leads to them being partially written off next year.  (Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and the actors will want to go to college in real life.). Really, they get too much screen time together already and the Manny actor in particular (IMO) is not very good.  I can see wanting to keep Haley and Alex in the mix, but occasional appearances by the guys wouldn't be a bad thing.  

One of the things that is interesting is the girls, Alex and Hailey, have really grown into their characters.  You could see either of the two actresses being cast into the roles, at the present age of the characters.

The actors playing Luke and Manny were quite cute when they were younger.  However, they do not have natural skills and now have cringe worthy line readings.  If we were casting for "teenage Luke or Manny" neither of these two would make the cut.  Lily and Joe are still too young to make an assessment about their abilities.

[JMarie99]

Cam certainly didn't handle it well, but I can definitely understand his annoyance at the woman blocking his view with her giant iPad. At my daughter's wedding a few years ago, a woman did exactly that - stood up and started recording with a large iPad and blocking the view of those behind her. I was sitting on the other side of the church, but I could see the people behind her trying to squeeze over and craning their necks to try to see the ceremony. There were plenty of comments afterward but of course no one said anything to her. So yes, Cam could have handled it differently, but he had every right to be annoyed in my opinion. 

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

One of the things that is interesting is the girls, Alex and Hailey, have really grown into their characters.  You could see either of the two actresses being cast into the roles, at the present age of the characters.

The actors playing Luke and Manny were quite cute when they were younger.  However, they do not have natural skills and now have cringe worthy line readings.  If we were casting for "teenage Luke or Manny" neither of these two would make the cut.  Lily and Joe are still too young to make an assessment about their abilities.

Manny was a cute little butterball when he was young but was never a very good actor, but I always thought Luke WAS, when he was little. I didn't think he merely relied on cute, tho he definitely was. Can you become UNtalented, if you once were, or am I just overestimating how good he was before? His little kid line reads used to strike me as pretty inspired sometimes.

[maraleia]

I think it's time to retire this show because they clearly have no idea what to do with the kids at this point and Cam and Mitch constantly fighting is getting old.

I mean it's been eight seasons.

[CleoCaesar]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

Manny would choose a school with a strong writing program and Luke would probably love a party school (though both could be at the same college).

I don't think Luke belongs in college anymore than Haley did. They both hate school, aren't smart or academically engaged at all, and could put their parents' money (literally hundreds of thousands of dollars!) and their own time to better pursuits.

People pushing apathetic students into college just adds to the perception that college is necessary for everyone (it's not), that there is no worth in trades (there is), and that college is always a good investment (it's not). I adored college and soaked up the classes and academic environment but don't think it's for everyone and that is completely fine.

[Lone Wolf]

After careful consideration, I have determined that the only thing cuter than a French Bulldog is a Teacup peeg-o-lit.

If they ever breed one that stays little, I shall pay exorbitant sums for same.

Thank you.

[Shermie]

Yes, think of the tiny strips of bacon! :)

I hated the Phil and Gloria plot because it was typical helicopter parents trying to micromanage their almost grown kids' lives unnecessarily. Gloria wants Manny to be able to take pranks, but she never pranks him at home (and really, that's not a parents job). You get pranked, or you don't. You learn to take it, or you don't. That's life. Phil tried to make Luke a mini version of himself. Again, leave him alone and stop hovering over his future college experience. Ugh. 

As for Alex, yeah, she could easily be at college and still be home on some weekends. A lot of the show seems to be set outside the workday/schoolday anyway, given how often we see Claire and Mitch and Lily and the boys at home. And Hailey needs to something besides preen. 

Cam and the iPad lady (yet another Apple plug, I see). He could have stalked various blond women, looking for the footage. I'm sure good writers could have mined some humour there and not made Cam insufferable again.

I liked the Jay and Dede plot best because everyone acted like normal people and there was still humour. That's good sitcom writing and acting.

[DarkRaichu]

On 1/13/2017 at 2:07 PM, luna1122 said:

Manny was a cute little butterball when he was young but was never a very good actor, but I always thought Luke WAS, when he was little. I didn't think he merely relied on cute, tho he definitely was. Can you become UNtalented, if you once were, or am I just overestimating how good he was before? His little kid line reads used to strike me as pretty inspired sometimes.

The actor is probably bored by this role.  I read the boy is very bright (member of Mensa?).  He most likely stays around out of solidarity.

[readster]

9 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

The actor is probably bored by this role.  I read the boy is very bright (member of Mensa?).  He most likely stays around out of solidarity.

Yes and same with Gould who plays Luke. In fact, he graduated high school two years early. I do know in one interview, he said Modern Family is a hobby that pays for school. They basically just do it for a paycheck now, but not the first child actors to do that. I remember that Mayim Bialik took her money from Blossom and went on to finish her PhD from the money, but went back to acting because she missed it. Same with Avery Brooks who after getting money from Spencer for Hire and A man Named Hawk went back to school and completed his Masters. 

[mansonlamps]

5 hours ago, readster said:

Yes and same with Gould who plays Luke. In fact, he graduated high school two years early. I do know in one interview, he said Modern Family is a hobby that pays for school. They basically just do it for a paycheck now, but not the first child actors to do that. I remember that Mayim Bialik took her money from Blossom and went on to finish her PhD from the money, but went back to acting because she missed it. Same with Avery Brooks who after getting money from Spencer for Hire and A man Named Hawk went back to school and completed his Masters. 

I'm pretty sure the original post was talking about Gould, not Rico Rodriguez.  It's pretty well known that Gould is a Mensa member.

[snuffles]

I saw Rico Rodriguez guest star on a Disney show. It took my awhile to figure out this wasn't a Modern Family-Austin&Ally cross over with Manny because Rico essentially played the same character. Spoiled, high maintenance, misunderstood kid. He definitely has no depth or range in his acting.

Agree Cam is a self centered drama queen who is lucky to have Mitchell put up with all his crap.

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, snuffles said:

Agree Cam is a self centered drama queen who is lucky to have Mitchell put up with all his crap.

He is worse...he is a manipulative drama queen.  Remember, among the thousand things he had done, it includes forcing his father to do a unflattering soap carving for the top of the cake, so he could control wedding arrangements and using all the Hawaii money for that stupid petting zoo Thanksgiving.

[kat165]

I loathe Cam. He ruins the show.

[CleoCaesar]

My dislike of Cam began back in season 1 during the flashmob scene. Mitchell learned the dance steps after work and adorably said it was his love letter to Cam (aww). Instead of being touched and pleased, Cam threw a massive hissy fit and accused Mitchell on "cheating on him with choreography".

And he's only gone downhill since then.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/13/2017 at 1:17 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does anyone recall any sitcoms where characters who grew up and went to college were successfully still integrated into the show? The Cosby Show spun off A Different World so that Denise could be followed once she went to college (and so they could have a second successful show) and Family Ties manufactured a reason for Alex P. Keaton to live at home and commute to college, but I can't recall how any other shows besides The Middle, which I mentioned above, have handled the college situation.  Blackish will be dealing with this issue very soon, and I'm betting that eldest child Zoey will not be attending Brown like her in-show mother, unless the actress attends college in real life and needs to spend time away from the show.

I just found the answer: http://tvline.com/2017/01/19/blackish-spinoff-yara-shahidi-zoey-college-abc/

[stcroix]

Did this show take a two week break or something?!  It's not showing up on my amazon list. 

[kat165]

Yes, stcroix, I think it did. From what I can recall most ABC sitcoms this wk (at least on Tues & Wed) have been repeats.