S04.E03: The Final Problem

[ElleMo]

6 hours ago, TomServo said:

I'm happy to assume there was a set of bolt cutters attached to the end of the rope they tossed down the well, but what I don't understand is how Eurus can control Moriarty after five minutes with him, can control Sherlock after about the same amount of time, yet John has a pretty decent ability to resist her when the plot needs advancing.  Sure, he started texting her at first, but came to his senses and broke it off.  She had to keep repeating her fake therapist questions because he wouldn't answer to her satisfaction, and then he caught her making a mistake by letting him know she already knew about the secret sibling. 

 

I don't think she controlled Sherlock or Moriarity at all.  Moriarity had already toyed with Sherlock before they even met.  Everything Euros & Moriarty did was just more fun for him.  And he gave his opinion of what was going on.  She mentioned that Moriarty knew Sherlock would choose Watson and he was very excited by that. No control necessary.

Sherlock made the choice to do things that she asked -- stepped closer so she would answer the question about how she got out and gave Mycroft, then Watson the gun to save other lives etc. -- but he wasn't controlled in the same sense like the one psychiatrist they mention who was compelled to kill his family and then himself.  Or the director who allowed her to take over the prison.

Also, John is a lot smarter than everyone gives him credit for.  He figured out that Euros was controlling the prison and in previous ep he figured out that Irene Adler was alive and it was Sherlock's birthday from one text alert and that there was a secret sibling from offhand comments from Mycroft. It's only because Mycroft and Sherlock are so brilliant, compared to them he seems ordinary.  But he is pretty astute in his own right.

[tanita]

It's not that he is just astute, Watson sees what they only observe. While they connect the noncollectable to the naked eye, Watson sees the simple things that minds like theirs overlook. Just by listening he figured out that it was the governors voice and what that meant for the prison.

What I like about this episode is that it basically showed that Sherlock was a normal bright sociable child. His sociopathic tendecies were in direct result of trauma that stunted his emotional growth.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[ElleMo]

Three things that really bugged me

• They assumed because of Euros comments that the little boy drowned, yet no one checked the well??!!??
• Watson, a physician, didn't recognize human bones right away until he saw the skull? They were pretty big bones that he held in his hands, not fragments, so they should have obviously been human. (that had no real impact on the plot, but still it bugged me)
• Also, where did Sherlock grow up?  Did they go to another town far away after the home was set on fire? I can believe that the family was so scarred by the experience that they crossed the child out of her life, hid away any pictures and never mentioned her (at least around Sherlock once they realized she forget her), but a missing child would have been the talk of the town for years, especially since he had never been found. And Sherlock never heard about this kid?

Edited January 16, 2017 by ElleMo

[ForeverAlone]

I found this episode to be very frustrating, because it had so much potential, but it fell flat to me. I think the biggest disappointment was that the story just didn't seem grounded in reality with all those intricate little games. I don't think those games really pushed the story forward, or really revealed deep character moments (or at least they didn't dig deep enough, or could have been achieved via more realistic means. 

I really liked the idea of a psychopathic, super genius sister and if the story had been grounded more, I think it could have worked very well. But it was more about Rube Goldberg type of traps and required too much suspension of disbelief. I just didn't buy that Euros had the ability to bewitch nearly everyone by just speaking to them and was able to basically come and go from Sherrinford as she pleased, and she was able to convince all those people to put together all those little traps for her (I mean, someone had to go abduct the governor's wife and those three brothers and set them into position), and then get Sherlock and John from Sherrinford to the Holmes estate. I just think the story could have been better if it was more intimate and psychological  rather than some criminal mastermind story. 

[TexasGal]

12 minutes ago, festivus said:

I can handwave a lot in Sherlock but I had a problem with that explosion. At the very least there should have been some broken bones. Also, why would Eurus do that? I thought the whole point is that she wanted Sherlock to play her game and he could have easily died in that explosion. 

 

OMG, this!!!!  It was like they just wanted to have a big explosion so came up with a way.  And not even as an excuse for a new TARDIS design, oops I mean remodelling of 221B since they redid it exactly the same.

So she's locked up in Azkhaban and Mycroft has given orders for no one to talk to her, the first psychiatrist they send in kills his family and then himself after talking to her - but they just keep sending more people in to chat with her?  

[Mari]

Plus, what she was talking Sherlock into was closer to his nature; he is insatiably curious, and supremely confident in his observational skills.  It was really just talking him into doing stuff he really wanted to do, deep down--answer his questions about her, and the past, and current problems.

With John, it ran contrary to his nature.  He's been shown as someone who enjoys having a female in his life, but he's never been disloyal.  In fact, in the very first episode, much is made of his loyalty. It's supposed to be impossible to hypnotize someone into doing something that is against their basic beliefs/self.  It would make sense that he'd break out of the spell.

[zxy556575]

I liked chubby child Mycroft, so there's that.

[zxy556575]

double post

Edited January 16, 2017 by lordonia

[Mama No Life]

6 hours ago, TomServo said:

I didn't particularly care for this episode, BUT I thought the plot holes in the Hound episode were worse, so I suppose there's that?

The whole story line with the flashback to the dog reminded me of the M*A*S*H episode where the woman on the bus kills a "chicken" in Hawkeye's memory, but in reality she had killed her own baby trying to keep it quiet.  Only M*A*S*H got the story over with in half an hour instead of an hour and a half.

I'm happy to assume there was a set of bolt cutters attached to the end of the rope they tossed down the well, but what I don't understand is how Eurus can control Moriarty after five minutes with him, can control Sherlock after about the same amount of time, yet John has a pretty decent ability to resist her when the plot needs advancing.  Sure, he started texting her at first, but came to his senses and broke it off.  She had to keep repeating her fake therapist questions because he wouldn't answer to her satisfaction, and then he caught her making a mistake by letting him know she already knew about the secret sibling. 

Not trying to be THAT person, but they actually didn't resolve the MASH chicken thing in one half hour episode...it was the series finale, either 90 or 120 minutes (i can't remember off-hand) and the fact that Hawkeye couldn't deal with the tragedy put him in a mental hospital for much of the episode.   So closer than you even realized. :)

[Primetimer]

In the season (series?) finale, Eurus makes our boys jump through some pretty messed-up hoops, and the truth behind Redbeard is revealed.

View the full article

[tanita]

I don't think Watson could see the bones clearly, the moonlight wasn't very bright and grabbing an arm or a leg bone can hardly be indicative, plus it was a very stressful situation. When he found a small human skull it all made sense.

[tanita]

As for the family, if they moved far away, I could totally see them just ignoring the fact that they had a daughter. She supposedly died in a fire at psych-hospital while she was still a child, and if they noticed that Sherlock was suppressing the memories of her, ignoring her name or existence and started refusing to acknowledge Redbeard as anything other then a dog, it was probably a discussion between the parents and a young adult Mycroft to not mention her in front of him, remove all photographs and alike to diminish further emotional trauma.

As for the boy, I would assume that nobody paid any mind to her earlier allusions of locking Redbeard up (she was a 6-yo, no matter how bright) and after she burned down the ancestral home they moved away. I don't doubt that there was talk of a missing child, but as they moved away Sherlock would have no memory of it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[tankgirl73]

From the article: "...and as far as Mr. & Mrs. Holmes know, Eurus herself died in that fire...but she actually didn't! Uncle Rudy (who presumably had the same kind of shadowy government job Mycroft now holds) stepped in and shipped Eurus off to a place that was deemed suitable for her particular needs. "

No, she was taken away to a hospital, which she also burned down, and THAT's where the parents thought she died.

The article writer also mistakenly interpreted it to mean Victor was a brother rather than a friend. I made that mistake but soon accepted the correction.

Clearly the article writer doesn't read the forum comments. Or watch the episode more than once before writing?

[Mama No Life]

From an article on buzzfeed about the finale.  When I look at it through this lens, it helps me be a bit more forgiving...

 

Quote

“What we think has happened, and it is entirely accidental, is that our original intention with this series was to go back to the beginning and see themselves as younger men,” says Gatiss. “And start on the first meeting which is never done and restore to its factory settings and see where we got to. But I think what has actually happened is that we have now done the story of how Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson you’ve always known became those men.

“And it’s actually weirdly a backstory. We never intended it to be but the reason we leave it at Rathbone Place is that if that actually we do come back and we would love to come back, we could absolutely very easily start it with the knock on the door and Sherlock saying to John, ‘Do you want to come out and play?’

“They have become the heroes we always knew them to be and we’ve accidentally done their backstory.”

[tankgirl73]

Quote

...and as far as Mr. & Mrs. Holmes know, Eurus herself died in that fire...but she actually didn't! Uncle Rudy (who presumably had the same kind of shadowy government job Mycroft now holds) stepped in and shipped Eurus off to a place that was deemed suitable for her particular needs.

From the article. Which is incorrect. She was shipped off to a mental hospital and the parents knew. She then burned down that hospital and THAT is where the parents think she died.

The article also has the mistaken interpretation of Victor being another brother rather than a best friend. I made the same mistake (and I see this as vindication that I'm not alone in the error) but quickly accepted the correction and realized my error.

So I guess the article writer doesn't read this forum... or watch the episode more than once before writing?

[marceline]

90 minutes of plot holes and torture porn. They don't ever need to make another episode.

[Eneya]

Tbh, I liked one quote from this episode.
"Which one is pain?"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On a shallow note, when Mycroft explained about the drone bomb, all I could think was no, don't blow up Sherlock's awesome place! Glad to see that the fancy grenade barely did any damage. All they had to do was slap on a fresh coat of paint, throw away the debris, and voila, good as new!

[teddysmom]

These last 2 episodes have not been up to par. Last week was god awful. That whole "let me inject you with this serum" BS. Seriously? And now the "your sister that you forgot is kept in a prison but she's got a hyno wheel and can make people do what she wants". Come on Gattis & Moffat! We don't wait years for this nonsense.

[Tardislass]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

On a shallow note, when Mycroft explained about the drone bomb, all I could think was no, don't blow up Sherlock's awesome place! Glad to see that the fancy grenade barely did any damage. All they had to do was slap on a fresh coat of paint, throw away the debris, and voila, good as new!

Sorry but that killed me-although after the fiction of the whole episode it didn't seem as crazy.

Sadly, I almost wish now that we could have another series since it finally seems like Sherlock and Watson are like Doyle's characters and solving crime. 

[Arnella]

Quote

Honestly, we wait years and get one better-than-average episode, and two full of self-indulgent wanking over 'how cute we all are, aren't we?' and I don't care for it.

If this is what's in store for season 5, end it. Just end it now. You've gone on one season too many at this point, would be better to bow out now that you've shown you can't do it anymore, than try and force more cash out of the stone. Jesus, they're going to turn this into Dexter before it's all over and be proud of it. Just end it.

Let it die.

I have to agree... unless they want to make a spin off movie about Mrs. Hudson - I am all onboard for THAT!

This had all the earmarks of a series finale and they keep saying how hard it is to get the cast back so just let it stand.  I thought bringing Mary back again was too much but she gave the perfect epilog.  We can imagine them having adventures without the writers giving us more psychological/emotional torture porn.

This reminds me of Criminal Minds which I liked very much in the beginning until it turned into a show about how much they all LUUUVVV each other and whinging about their personal problems.  If that's all Gatiss and Moffatt have left, just do something else now.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Arnella

[Tardislass]

Watching it reminded me of my college days, watching The Prisoner at 2am and thinking how trippy it was, and for my friends telling how deep the storyline was. Uh-huh. I really wanted to like it since I liked Ep.2 and there were parts to enjoy. It just felt like something for the kids with the horror-Saw references and the fanfic element. But we'll always have Season1-2 and for that I'm grateful.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

Sorry but that killed me-although after the fiction of the whole episode it didn't seem as crazy.

Sadly, I almost wish now that we could have another series since it finally seems like Sherlock and Watson are like Doyle's characters and solving crime. 

Heh apparently I forgot to use my sarcasm font for the last part of my post. I was shaking my head at the idea that a grenade could go off and cause only cosmetic damage but no structural damage.

[Tardislass]

Quote

 I thought bringing Mary back again was too much but she gave the perfect epilog.  We can imagine them having adventures without the writers giving us more psychological/emotional torture porn.

This. I know people hated the DVD Mary, but it was the best of last night. A fitting epilogue that spouted the true essence of the characters. End it now. Please.

[tanita]

If anything the bomb part is the most unbelievable part of the story - how are non of them hurt. Man, I got knocked of my bike by a car about 18 months ago and broke both my arm, leg and had a massive blue-eye. They got blown up and went out of a first/second story window and nothing. Now that is some first rate syfy.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Once I knew about the secret sister's existence, I thought they were going to go the Rain Man/Pretty Little Liars route of the secret sibling accidentally putting one of the main characters in danger when they were kids and then being institutionalized, but damn, Eurus actually killed another kid. That's pretty fucked up. She looked pretty young in the flashbacks, so she was already a genius when she was, what, six years old? And somehow being a locked up genius gave her magical powers that allowed her to hypnotize anyone who came into contact with her for a few minutes to do her bidding.

All I could think after Sherlock's phone call to Molly was wait, did he just hang up on her after that? I was imagining her saying, "Hello? Hello? Sherlock? Did that wanker just get me to admit I love him and then hang up on me? Fuck you, Sherlock!"

[tanita]

He is a royal dick anyway. Frankly Molly, love yourself girl. His ass ain't worthy of you.

[beadgirl]

Oh my gosh, that was awful.  First of all, I am heartily tired of the amazing supervillian who can't be contained or defeated at all, until she can because it's the end of the story.  While I can buy her manipulating particularly weak or susceptible people over months of conversations, I can't believe she was able to mind-control everyone she ever spoke with.  While I'm at it, I've also had it with the pretentious, juvenile, pseudo-intellectual garbage the writers, excuse me, I mean supervillians, spout about morality.  And the idea that the more intelligent a person is the less capable she is of human decency is also overplayed and not factually supportable.

And I hate torture -- psychological, emotional, physical, you name it -- I hate it and I find it uninteresting and I don't enjoy watching it at all, certainly not for 90 minutes. 

Many of you have already addressed the plausibility issues with the explosions and Sherlock's repression not only of the horrible incident (perfectly believable) but of the existence of his sister (couldn't the same effect have been achieved if he only thought, as everyone else did, that she was dead?). 

Poor Molly, she's treated awfully by both Sherlock and the writers (although Sherlock at least seems to be learning his lesson) and not allowed to have any dignity.  A woman's life doesn't have to revolve around a man's, Moffat.

The only bit I liked was the ending, even if I'm not happy about Mary's fate (interesting people can be happily married, Moffat).  Can't we just have Sherlock and Watson solve intricate crimes?  Does every tv show have to be overly-complicated in the interests of being dark and twisty?

Edited January 16, 2017 by beadgirl

[Mama No Life]

I did enjoy the call back to the emergency code of "Vatican Cameos". 

Sherlock's sweet nod to Mrs. Hudson to leave the room and both his and John's smile when she told Mycroft to make his own tea.

The John stays because he's family line.

The fact that Sherlock first went to Mycroft to kill the governor. 

Well, a lot of the personal moments.  Just found the story too convoluted.  And why did their family home have tombstones with the wrong dates?

[tankgirl73]

Here's another horrible thing that just occurred to me...

All the psychological torture that our boys endured was in order to save the girl on the airplane -- or, even more accurately, save the people on the ground that she was going to crash into. Mycroft made the point, and the others seemed to eventually agree, they had to convince her that they could save her in order that she crash the plane into the water instead of the city. She would die but it would save countless others. Which was already a horrible decision to have to make. But then in order to accomplish that, they had to make several other decisions that led to needless deaths. There was no way through the situation without death, so they were trying to at least minimize it, again for the sake of saving the people from a plane crash which would be even worse.

But... the plane was never real. However weird that whole aspect of the plot might be, the fact is, it didn't exist. Never did.

So... they didn't have to do ANY of the stuff they did.

Watson recognized the dude's voice on the recording right away. If only he'd recognized just as easily that it was always Eurus talking as the girl, they would have been spared ALL OF IT. They'd just refuse to play. Maybe she'd kill them, but that would be it. Or they'd just leave the room without doing her challenges, secure in the knowledge that it doesn't matter what happens to the three hanging guys, she's going to kill them no matter what, so they may as well try to find her and stop her sooner rather than later -- *that* would be the right way to minimize the deaths.

But all the psychological torture.... "I need to do this horrible thing in order to save this plane"... needless. Pointless. It would not have made a difference if they didn't do it at all.

And if that's not bad enough... the show didn't even acknowledge that. The reveal that she was the girl all along was played like a victory - this was how they finally found her, reached her, rescued her, yay everything's great now.

Where was anyone (maybe John) saying "wait... you mean... there was no plane? Everything we did to try to save the plane... all those deaths... and there was NO PLANE? Sherlock this girl is NUTS why are you hugging her??!?"

Edited January 16, 2017 by tankgirl73

[tanita]

I found it interesting that Sherlock actually thought his brother was that cold-hearted - it's clear that while Mycroft has no problem being the chess-master, he doesn't have the gall to pull the trigger himself, in this case literary.

I don't think that Eurus's intelligence has anything to do with her pathology - she is clearly a born sociopath (rare but not unheard of) that went into full psychopathy in the development stages of infancy. Her intelligence facilitated her ability to hide the truth from adults but even that wasn't unlimited as her parents found her cutting herself and being very emotionless about it - she was to young to understand the need to hide such thoughts.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[Charlesman]

So anyone who spends five minutes alone with Eurus should be considered compromised, yet, no one questions the motivation of Watson, who has voluntarily subjected himself to unknown hours of psychological manipulation by her? OK. 

[Arnella]

We didn't get enough of Molly and Greg this time around but the fan-service of Sherlock telling her ILY and remembering Greg's name was another good indicator of a final goodbye for the series.

Let me give a shout out to Molly's scene - that was some excellent acting.  I hope this leads to the actress getting some good work and recognition. 

Finally, I am SO glad that Moriarty stayed dead (although I LOVED the flashback).  Him surviving his head being blown off would have ruined everything for me.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Arnella

[kmm49]

They ruined the best two characters with movie-cliche craziness. I feel sorry for Cumberbatch/Freeman. They did what they possibly could with the mess this show became after Mary became a full-time character. It went downhill from there. It got away from mysteries to babies and relationships I could care less about and James Bond nonsense.

If these actors ever return to maybe doing these characters every now and then in TV specials they need a total reboot.

[Tardislass]

19 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

 

Where was anyone (maybe John) saying "wait... you mean... there was no plane? Everything we did to try to save the plane... all those deaths... and there was NO PLANE? Sherlock this girl is NUTS why are you hugging her??!?"

It reminds me of those disaster movies when at the end after half the population has been killed but the girl and guy live and the finale is Happily Ever After, and you sit there thinking that half the population is killed, the city is destroyed yet no one cares anymore. 

30 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

All I could think after Sherlock's phone call to Molly was wait, did he just hang up on her after that? I was imagining her saying, "Hello? Hello? Sherlock? Did that wanker just get me to admit I love him and then hang up on me? Fuck you, Sherlock!"

I'm almost hoping Molly called back and when Sherlock answered, she said "Wanker!" and hung up. With all the buildup to how strong Molly was and how she was the only one to see Sherlock's BS, her scene was disappointing. I love Lou B but man Molly was a doormat. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Tardislass

[MisterGlass]

Reading reviews has reminded me that Mycroft had a sword umbrella, and I did love that little bit of fan service.

[tanita]

Not just an umbrella sword, but an umbrella sword that turns into a gun. I've always loved that, when people put slim swords into umbrella's or canes. When I have the means, I'm getting one.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[Winter Rose]

I hope that was the series finale and I say that because it felt like one. I can't see what would be bigger for Sherlock and John to go through after what they did this year. With Moriarty really being dead, every time a new villain comes along, calling them the "worst ever" loses its punch. Sherlock actually knows Lestrade's name now. Everyone came together at the end, topped off with Sherlock being allowed near Rosie again. Not to mention Ben and Martin probably have even less time for filming than ever before.

It also just wouldn't be the same for me without Moriarty but I'm at least glad that when he died, it was on his terms so he didn't really allow Sherlock and Mycroft to fool him because he had never intended to leave that rooftop alive. Eurus let his game continue but his game with Sherlock was still his. But despite the big bravado, he was still human and I think outside of Sherlock, Moriarty had a very empty life. It's a tragic character arc but one that makes sense and I just wanted his humanity intact.

I liked the touch that the first thing Sherlock thinks to play is Bach, like he had when it was Moriarty coming to see him, and then the next thing was Irene's theme. And even in the end with both Sherlock and Eurus playing violin, I like that he didn't give up on her. I do think, in his own way, Sherlock loves back all the people who love him.

I'm also relieved Mycroft survived the season. And I felt the c**** in his Ice Man facade in trying to goad Sherlock into killing him, so Sherlock wouldn't really have to "choose" to kill him or John. To me, the only person who even remotely affects Mycroft emotionally is Sherlock. To the point where he lied to Sherlock and enabled repressing his memories but ultimately Mycroft just wants to look out for his brother.

[Mama No Life]

The decision by the boys to convince the girl on the plane that they could save her when they were actually dooming her and saving others was mirrored in the final bedroom scene when Sherlock convinced Eurus he could help her this time only to have her toted away to Sherringford again when John was safe.

[John Potts]

24 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

So anyone who spends five minutes alone with Eurus should be considered compromised, yet, no one questions the motivation of Watson

I particularly liked the way Mycroft ordered the staff that "ABSOLUTELY NOBODY IS TO TALK TO HER" and then went in for a chat himself AND brings characters he KNOWS are psychotic (Moriarty) as "treats". I get he's meant to be so arrogant he believes she can't possibly get to him, but you'd think he'd draw the line somewhere.

Not that I'm entirely convinced of Mycroft's genius, since after the Governor shot himself he joined in the "Thank God he did that and we didn't have to!" because I immediately went, "But the condition to save Mrs Governor was that Watson or one of the Holmeses shoot him which they didn't, so she'll now shoot the wife" - which she did. Now I don't have a problem that nobody could execute the Governor (though given the way Mycroft spoke about the Governor, you'd think he'd be able to, at least to save another life) since I would imagine it's pretty traumatic to murder somebody, but I certainly wouldn't be celebrating in that situation.

I really am glad that some folk enjoyed the episode, but the more I think about it, the worse I think it is!

[festivus]

One thing I did love is that Mycroft is afraid of clowns. How cliche, lol.

 

I'm fine with it if this is the end of the series, but if they do make more I want to see Harry. Let's have some of John's family drama for once.

[penguinnj]

I really do think I liked it.  Initial viewing literally had me on the edge of my seat, but now I've had some time to digest and rewatch.  I just think you have to view the entire series in pieces.  For those who liked the detective stories, season 1 and part of 2 is for you.  If you watch for  character development then the rest of the series is going to be more to your taste.  Irene said she liked "detective stories and detectives" and that, for me, is the difference.

I have a hard time watching movies like Saw without a Rifftrack and a drink, so this was tough in areas and I will admit I almost lost it when the little boy is in the well- that seemed gratuitous.  I can mostly get around the plot holes with hand waving, and if I just replace Euros with Hannibal I can kind of get around the magic mind control although her displaying these abilities at 6 is a long stretch.  I was actually happy that most of the questions I would have asked after the episode were actually answered :)  I would have spent days wondering if Mycroft and Sherlock told their parents the truth and those sorts of scenes never seem to play out.  And I thought Mrs. Holmes nailed the reaction- despite everything Mycroft lied about her daughter being DEAD.  But, as I said, this may not, legitimately, be why you watch Sherlock.  

I also wonder if Sherlock's obsession with the boy swimmer Moriarty killed can be linked to the death of Redbeard - is that what the emphasis on Deep Water was all about?

Wonderful acting all around- Gatiss in particular was outstanding.  And I am a Mary fan so I was happy to see her again.

[Peace 47]

8 hours ago, tankgirl73 said:

But all the psychological torture.... "I need to do this horrible thing in order to save this plane"... needless. Pointless. It would not have made a difference if they didn't do it at all.

I like your whole post, agree with it, and want to take it on a bit of a tangent.  I feel like this is symptomatic of everything (that I view as) wrong with this show:  there are few real consequences, and when no action has consequences, and no decision affects any other, how are we to remain invested in what happens to these characters? 

I take issue with the cheap ending of the last episode when John appeared to be in danger.  I don't recall if it was upthread or a review that I was reading last night that said Eurus specifically said in "The Lying Detective" that she was going to "put a hole" in John, and we saw a gunshot (not a tranquilizer gun) go off.  But that was cheaply exited from at the top of this episode.

Many in the thread last week were speculating about why there was a scene of Lady Smallwood trying to romantically connect with Mycroft.  Was she a plant?  Mycroft had obliquely talked to her about Eurus as far back as S3:  how was she going to be important this episode?  Well, she wasn't even mentioned.

Eurus can exit and enter her ultra high security prison at will, apparently.  Why did she ever bother going back once she was free?  Why did she wait a year after planting the "Miss Me?" Moriarty video stunt to do anything else?  (It was about a year in the show's time between that video and when Eurus showed up again.)  How did Eurus knock out Sherlock, John and Mycroft at the prison and force her hypnotized prison staff to transport them all to the old family estate, and construct a set at the estate all within a matter of hours?  How does she hypnotize people into doing awful things just by looking at/talking to them?

I actually think that the writers do not want us to pay attention to any details but focus only on the very particular feelings that they try to invoke through the characters at any given moment.  They just cut away or use a time jump every time that there would be an inconvenient emotion that they no longer want to address or logical inconsistency standing in the way of their next exploitation of a new emotion.  This has been a problem since "The Empty Hearse" brushed off most of the heartfelt emotion and logical follow-through of "The Reichenbach Fall," but I feel like it was dialed up tenfold in this season.

So yes, at the end of the episode, I was emotionally spent from having to watch Sherlock, John and Mycroft endure psychological torture from which there was no escape (and which their detective skills could not extricate themselves from--lovely for a detective show), but there's no consequence to this--it was an emotional set piece, meant to be forgotten.  Everyone worried about Molly need not care:  she showed up happy in the ending montage (still hopelessly in love with Sherlock, I'm sure).  It's very disheartening.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Peace 47
Spelling

[Driad]

Now the fanfic writers will be busy explaining how Euros masterminded the whole series.

I would like to see or read more about Mrs. Hudson.

Since the series is apparently ending, kudos to whoever found or made the amazingly ghastly wallpaper for 221B and some other sets.

[PaulaO]

One of the few things I liked about the episode was Mycroft smoking in his private screening room.  He does have his weakness..... and I wonder what movie he was watching (if it were a real movie).  He has watched it several times because he was mouthing the dialogue.

[jeansheridan]

Quote

Watson recognized the dude's voice on the recording right away. If only he'd recognized just as easily that it was always Eurus talking as the girl, they would have been spared ALL OF IT. They'd just refuse to play. Maybe she'd kill them, but that would be it. Or they'd just leave the room without doing her challenges, secure in the knowledge that it doesn't matter what happens to the three hanging guys, she's going to kill them no matter what, so they may as well try to find her and stop her sooner rather than later -- *that* would be the right way to minimize the deaths.

I wouldn't like John Watson or Sherlock if they didn't at least TRY to save those men.  It's the trying that always matters. It's what separates them from Moriarty and possibly Mary before she met John Watson.

If there had been more time  and I hope some fanfic writers follow up on this (hint hint) but I would love to explore the possibility that John Watson changed Euros.  We've seen him change Sherlock AND Mary due to his essential John-ness.  Euros spent some serious time with him.  Why shouldn't she be altered?  Even a sociopath can be influenced.  

I loved Euros.  She's a very good actress and I can't wait to rewatch her scenes with Sherlock from ep 2.  Tons of chemistry between those two.  I didn't love the games so much, but if I can have Watson/Mycroft/Sherlock in the same room for an extended time, I'm good.  Do I wish some of John's qualities had saved the day more?  Yeah, I did.  I love it when John's physicality and practical knowledge are useful.  But Sherlock will always be the lead so he needed to solve it.

Also regarding so consequences.  This series is based on hundreds of short stories in which Sherlock Holmes and Company improbably survive.  That's the source material.  ACD didn't kill off his golden goose and when he tried to, he brought him back.  I'm not going to knock the writers for not killing off their characters.  I mean, they could have killed Molly.  She's not cannon.  Would that be enough consequence?  I just think Mary's death was enough this season.  And they actually did kill off Moriarty despite all the hints and callbacks.  Andrew Scott was perfect in that five minutes. I was happy to see him for a few minutes.   

 And yes, horrifyingly, I"m happy a child died and not a dog.  Because I'm sick.

[tanita]

It looked like a cheesy film noir to me - a detective and a femme fatalle. If Mycroft is into that sort of thing, setting up Sherlock against The Woman must have given him tons of secret pleasure.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[Chaos Theory]

I  am fine with this if it is the end.  This whole season (with killing of Mary _ yes I am bitter and plan to remain so thank you very much my favorite episode still is His Last Vow - don't judge me.) felt like a final season to me.  This last episode felt like a finale as well.  Especially with Sherlock gaining some emotional insight and remembering Lastrade's first name without prompting.  

It all felt very final.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, Charlesman said:

So anyone who spends five minutes alone with Eurus should be considered compromised, yet, no one questions the motivation of Watson, who has voluntarily subjected himself to unknown hours of psychological manipulation by her? OK. 

An excellent point and  as I mentioned above, what about Watson influencing HER?  Clearly he has some quality that throws off the Holmes family,  Even Mycroft who seems puzzled by John but can't bother to spend any mental power on him.  

In my world, John would have freed himself from that well and showed up at Euros' bedroom door just as Sherlock was hugging her.  I think John is the sort of guy who could save himself and it would have been quite satisfying to see Euros startled.  There's a big difference between a small scared boy and a soldier/doctor with years of lock picking training.  I wouldn't have found it all incredible he could rescue himself.  

[AimingforYoko]

24 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

And yes, horrifyingly, I"m happy a child died and not a dog.  Because I'm sick.

Well, off to Sherrinford with you.