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S08.E06: A Shocking Revelation

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Why all the focus on "Meri needs time to process this, it's not what she expected the future to be like"? It's not like she is super close with her daughter and is now bummed about not having late nights popping popcorn and talking about men. Maybe Meri should stop being bothered by her daughter's sexuality and start being bothered by their shitty distant relationship, and trying to fix it (that's if her narcissism will even allow her to admit that any of the blame lies with her). And too bad for Meri, Mariah is an adult now so just telling her "hey, you're going to stop being mad at me!" ain't going to cut it.

 

As a mother of two boys I wouldn't mind at all if they were gay but I wouldn't be able to sleep if I had the type of relationship with them that Meri has with Mariah.

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49 minutes ago, thebalconyfool said:

I really liked this episode. I didn't get the feeling that the reaction was just for the cameras. Although I do believe they already knew it was coming. (I find it impossible to believe these things are filmed first without the family already knowing.) 

There are a lot of things about kody that drive me nuts, but I do feel he was genuine in everything he said in this episode regarding mariah and about wanting his kids to feel safe. I really don't think that changes when the cameras are off. I also appreciated Robyns thoughts too and her talk with Meri. I thought what she said was spot on in during the kitchen table talk. That said, I can understand Meri feeling conflicted. I'm sure it was also very hard coming at a time when her and mariah are not the best place in their relationship. Where I didn't agree with Robyn was later in show when she said Meri needs to give mariah space and she'll talk when she wants. I think at this point Mariah is starting to hold the catfishing stuff over meri's head. Shes becoming vindictive about it and punishing Meri over and over again.

I had a different feeling about Meri and Mariahs conversation compared to what some are feeling on the board it seems. Yes, Meri was stumbling, and laughing nervously throughout, but I could completely understand and emphasize with her. I felt like she was doing the best she could and considering their relationship is so strained now and mariah is so guarded because of it, it made the conversation particularly difficult. Mariah's attitude was awful during the conversion, imo. I found it hard to watch. Obviously she has a lot of hostility toward meri with the catfishing, but all the same Meri is her mother and I feel she is being consistently disrespectful and unnecessarily cold to her.  While I think it's great that mariah came out and I'm glad that she feels a weight lifted, I'm finding myself liking mariah less and less due to how she is treating her mother. I sympathized with mariah initially, but at this point her attitude is really starting to grate on me. She is acting like a complete brat. She's punished Meri enough and needs to start to. let it go. 

Anyway, overall I was surprised and pleased with how openly this topic was handled on the show. I felt there were a lot of genuine emotion shown in dealing with a topic that (sadly) causes upset and conflict in many families, especially religious families. I definitely gained some respect for the family in this one.

Agree with every word.

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It was like a lightbulb went off when Meri said she always wanted to have a son-in-law so she could have a son. She is projecting all over this Mariah situation - this is closing the final, ultimate door for her and letting her know she will never, EVER be able to give Kody any kind of a male "heir" and she is completely useless in his eyes. So I get it, as sad as it is, not that I condone what she's doing but I see her struggling to come to terms in every possible way with being nothing but dead weight to this man she may be tied to for eternity. Ugh. 

And like everyone else has already mentioned, Robyn (and her lantern jaw) surely gave lip service to all of the correct soundbites. As did Kody. And to his credit, he handled the Caleb-Madi sextuation better than I think I even would, and I'm pretty open-minded. But no on hearing about my children's sex lives please :(

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Meri wanted to talk to Kody, her husband, about their daughter announcing she's gay, and she needed Robyn to help facilitate the talk - WTF?  These two are like strangers to each other.  If you needed further proof that Meri and Kody are no longer husband and wife, this was it.  First the scene from last week's ep. where Kody said he had no interest in working on their relationship, esp. if it wasn't for the cameras (!), and now this.  Poor Meri - if only Sam was real......she'd be outta there!

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6 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

The wedding of Sol and mommy was ... off. It was a bit indulgent perhaps, first I thought it was weird, then it was sorta cute....kind of? But then I went back to feeling weird about it. Don't all those adults and teenagers have iPads and phones to play with? Wtf was that? Go back to solitary iPad existence, while grunting at each other...like at my house! Too much twee whimsy for me. ;)

The wedding of Sol and mommy was ... off. It was a bit indulgent perhaps, first I thought it was weird, then it was sorta cute....kind of? But then I went back to feeling weird about it. Don't all those adults and teenagers have iPads and phones to play with? Wtf was that? Go back to solitary iPad existence, while grunting at each other...like at my house! Too much twee whimsy for me. ;)

Edited by VedaPierce
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10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I totally understand that Meri has to let go of her plans and expectations for Mariah's life. All parents end up with plans in their head for their offsprings life. When those plans are not the reality, parents have to adjust. It could be being gay, career or school choices, military... or God forbid, disabilities that happen.  Meri has the right to need to take time to adjust. In addition, Mariah is her only child. If you don't have children, you won't understand this. 

 

Mariah is a brat. She sits there with a smirk on her face because she's thrown a curve ball to Meri's head. 

All. Of. This.  My friend is dealing with the same situation as we speak.  It doesn't happen overnight.

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Poor Logan and his girlfriend looked so uncomfortable with all the marriage talk. I loved seeing the sibling dinner. For a bunch of kids with really damaged parents, they all seem so grounded. Mariah is much more likeable and seems a million times happier and more comfortable now that she's out. Good for her.

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10 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

As for Robyn, this bitch is playing the game absolutely masterfully.  If I didn't dislike her so much, I would tip my hat to her in reluctant acknowledgment of her skills.  It's fascinating to watch.  When did she become the therapist of the group?  She presents herself during the talking heads like a wise sage, passing down her time-tested marriage tips and nuggets of advice to her lowly non-wives.  Again, how. do. they. not. see. this??!  Her entire stance and demeanor have changed since she was finally able to climb to the top of this festering shitheap.  

I've seen 90 minutes of the 3 hours (sheesh!!!).  The gazebo chat between Robyn and Meri was more or less at this point.  Good grief, Robyn was SO obnoxious, spewing her wisdom!  Why in the world Meri sat there and took it, I have no idea.  I'm not typically violent but I felt the urge to punch Robyn.

10 hours ago, CofCinci said:

No one knew Mariah was gay with that triangle tattoo on her wrist?!!

I wouldn't/don't know what that means either.

10 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

The slightly infuriating part? It is just always about him and how important it is that Mariah was born into HIS family, under HIS care and that it is oh so important that she feels safe with HIM

MY GOD!!! YES!!!  

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10 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

I just really saw tonight how incredibly insecure Meri is. She really can't stand strong and solid on her own two feet. 

I think Meri has had a shit life.  She needs 1:1 therapy.

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6 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

It was all about the things SHE would miss out on. The wedding, the babies, the son-in-law.

But, if Mariah is allowed (even applauded) for having her feelings, it is equally important that Meri be allowed to express hers.  She is not rejecting Mariah, only expressing her own emotions.  That should be okay too.

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5 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

But, if Mariah is allowed (even applauded) for having her feelings, it is equally important that Meri be allowed to express hers.  She is not rejecting Mariah, only expressing her own emotions.  That should be okay too.

Of course it's okay for Meri to have, and express, her own feelings. It's just my personal opinion that that was ALL it was about. I never once got the impression that she was proud of Mariah for coming out. Or concerned with how hard that must have been for her. I don't remember Meri asking Mariah how SHE felt. I really just got the impression that Meri was pissed that she didn't know first, that Mariah didn't consult her every step of the way. It wasn't the shock of Mariah actually BEING gay, but that Meri was the special one who got to find out before all the others. Meri seems, to me, almost completely incapable of empathy and tends to make every situation about her. I just would have liked to see her giving more comfort and appreciation and reassurance TO her daughter, instead of expecting it in return. 

And she seemed REALLY hung up on the "how" of Mariah one day having babies. I found it ridiculous. SHE was considering using a surrogate at one point. What's so hard to understand?

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2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Of course it's okay for Meri to have, and express, her own feelings. It's just my personal opinion that that was ALL it was about. I never once got the impression that she was proud of Mariah for coming out. Or concerned with how hard that must have been for her. I don't remember Meri asking Mariah how SHE felt. I really just got the impression that Meri was pissed that she didn't know first, that Mariah didn't consult her every step of the way. It wasn't the shock of Mariah actually BEING gay, but that Meri was the special one who got to find out before all the others. Meri seems, to me, almost completely incapable of empathy and tends to make every situation about her. I just would have liked to see her giving more comfort and appreciation and reassurance TO her daughter, instead of expecting it in return. 

And she seemed REALLY hung up on the "how" of Mariah one day having babies. I found it ridiculous. SHE was considering using a surrogate at one point. What's so hard to understand?

I would not be at all surprised if empathetic Meri had been edited out.  They have all been cast in roles.  

I did find it odd that Meri couldn't process the sperm donor business.  I think there was stuff there that was left unsaid because she should know the mechanics of it, at least. 

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5 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I would not be at all surprised if empathetic Meri had been edited out.  They have all been cast in roles.  

I realize there is a lot of chicanery that goes on with "reality" shows. I can only speak for myself, but I choose to form opinions based on what I am shown. Because I would otherwise drive myself mad, trying to decide what was scripted, what is real, guess what was edited out and how things were cut and spliced, etc. etc. It would be never-ending. So, for me, I watch it like I would watch a fictional show and I comment on what I see and how I interpret it. I just don't have the time or the energy to try and speculate and pick apart every scene. 

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2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I realize there is a lot of chicanery that goes on with "reality" shows. I can only speak for myself, but I choose to form opinions based on what I am shown. Because I would otherwise drive myself mad, trying to decide what was scripted, what is real, guess what was edited out and how things were cut and spliced, etc. etc. It would be never-ending. So, for me, I watch it like I would watch a fictional show and I comment on what I see and how I interpret it. I just don't have the time or the energy to try and speculate and pick apart every scene. 

Agreed, and  I watch it like a fictional show too and believe we're only shown half of it (to move the plot forward so to speak).

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17 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

But, if Mariah is allowed (even applauded) for having her feelings, it is equally important that Meri be allowed to express hers.  She is not rejecting Mariah, only expressing her own emotions.  That should be okay too.

I agree with this, but also with others who are saying that Meri is making this too much about herself ( at east what was shown in the episode).  Meri does need to work through her feelings on her own--Mariah is not responsible for her mom's feelings about Mariah's sexuality.

On the other hand, Mariah does not get to be judge and jury about her mother's (admittedly screwed up) relationship with her father. She needs to "process" that on her own.

 I have empathy for both of them in this situation, even if I don't particularly like a lot of things about either of them. 

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44 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I think Meri has had a shit life.  She needs 1:1 therapy.

But not with plyg therapist, Nancy.  She needs 1:1 therapy with a REAL therapist who won't coddle her.  

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 Meri got sound advice from Robin and Kody as to how to handle her feelings in regard to Mariah and she didn't take it.  Love her unconditionally and process your feelings with the adults.  Basically keep it light and your heart open so she feels welcome to enter.  I found it impossible to have empathy for Meri on this one. 

Mariah handled herself well; she is a mature young woman. Her older siblings, Kody and other mothers have the right attitude so she has a lot of support. Good for them.  

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9 hours ago, sweet201 said:

I used to think Kody was the biggest narcissist I'd ever seen, but I think Meri may have him beat - or maybe she just seems worse because, despite the bazillion sessions we've seen with Nancy and all of her therapy-speak, she is apparently completely unaware that the world does not revolve around her and her "fillings." Mariah still comes off as a brat, but as the child of two narcissists myself, I can understand why she's so pissed off. Meri always has thought of and treated Mariah as an extension of herself, and is STILL doing so. Meri is just, in everything she does, in every relationship, 100% Meri-focused. She wants to know what Mariah feels...about Meri. She wonders what Mariah is thinking...about Meri. Even my 12 year old son could see this when he walked into the room midway through the porch conversation. Why, why can't Meri?! 

Boy, you hit the nail on the head here.  I'm an introvert myself and someone in my face asking me how I feel until I'm ready to talk makes me really uncomfortable.  Meri didn't want to talk about want to about Mariah anyway.The conversation was tell me how you feel about ME.

Ugh.

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17 minutes ago, Adiba said:

On the other hand, Mariah does not get to be judge and jury about her mother's (admittedly screwed up) relationship with her father. She needs to "process" that on her own.

I think Mariah HAS been trying to process it on her own. Meri seems to be the one who keeps tracking her down (like at college) to talk about it and move on. Meri appears to want people to move on when SHE'S ready. She has little regard for where they are at in the process - same with Kody and their marriage. Meri sent him away, told him not to come to the house, but now she's ready to get back to normal. So he should be as well. 

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13 hours ago, Granny58 said:

What I don't understand is grandma's "awesome" at the big reveal.  Why was it awesome?

I think grandma already knew.  And when Mariah was talking about wanting to live polygamy so that she'd have sister wives and not so much time with a man, my brain started pinging hard - I wonder if that was how Christine's mom felt, too, but couldn't say anything about it.  There have to be many gay women who live polygamy, cannot come out safely within their families, and perhaps feel that sharing a man is actually a "good" thing, in that they only have to pretend once a week or so.

 

13 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Why the hell is Robyn in all of these conversations?

Durrrr!  Because!  In Robyn's mind, she has been with this fam'ly since DAY ONE.  She is an incredible woman - she can re-write history with a single portrait, can speak on events that happened way before she became part of the fam'ly as if she were there, and somehow even knows what Mariah and Mykelti were like as babies!  She is Super Robyn!  Mess with her at YOUR OWN PERIL!

 

12 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

I can understand Meri's need to get answers from Mariah, but she's giving her way too much power, allowing her adult child to speak to her that way.  A mother who wants to operate from a position of strength and confidence does not prostrate herself before her child and beg her for answers and validation . . . about anythingIf I were Meri, I would sit Mariah down one final time and tell her straight-up that: 1) I'd fucked up with the catfish situation, 2) I apologize for having involved her inappropriately, 3) this was our very last conversation about it, and 4) she should feel free to come to me when she was ready to discuss her sexual preference (or not at all).  Meri's constant harping on the logistics of Mariah having babies is getting ridiculous.  All of that being said, Mariah is being a total bitch, but to be fair, her mother created this situation by treating her daughter like a friend or surrogate partner all these years.  I get Meri needing a friend when Kody is off with his other squeezes, but that's not Mariah's job. 

You said "one final time."  The problem is, Meri's never done this, not even once.  I do not recall Meri EVER taking accountability for her actions with Mariah.  Now, Kody did - Kody talked with Mariah about how lonely Meri was, hence her finding twu lurve on the interwebz, and hooking up with the "bad peoples."  Granted, we don't get to see everything these people do or say, but Mariah's demeanor with Meri suggests to me that Meri still has not taken responsibility for involving Mariah in her mess.  My take is - Mariah is keeping her distance from Meri, and unless and until Meri finally gets honest, Mariah will continue to turn to her other moms and leave Meri out in the cold.  This is totally on Meri.  Her therapy sessions, her cowed demeanor around Kody, her giggle-fits with Cheryl when talking about Sam, her constant blathering about how her relationship with Mariah is not good - is all on Meri at this point.  And I was one who tended to be sympathetic towards Meri, but not anymore.  If she actually sat down and said those exact bolded words above to her daughter, things might slowly get better.  But as long as Meri dances around the truth with everyone in her entire family, it ain't gonna happen.  Because I whole-heartedly believe that if Sam had been real, Meri would be gone, and Mariah knows it.

 

9 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

If I had a dollar for every time Meri said  "I want"  or  "I fill"  or  "I thought"...

We could buy our own island, a personal jet for each of us, and fly in to have Sister Wives drinking parties!

 

Other notes:

Truly owns this show.  I adore that it took her "hours" to reel in that fishie.

Caleb calling Paedon "BFG" was everything!!

If Tony knows how to cook, how could he not know that one does not place a cookie sheet on top of a stove?  Didn't the big black burn marks tip him off?

Shut up, Robyn.

Edited by laurakaye
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1 minute ago, ghoulina said:

I think Mariah HAS been trying to process it on her own. Meri seems to be the one who keeps tracking her down (like at college) to talk about it and move on. Meri appears to want people to move on when SHE'S ready. She has little regard for where they are at in the process - same with Kody and their marriage. Meri sent him away, told him not to come to the house, but now she's ready to get back to normal. So he should be as well. 

Yeah, to a certain extent-- Mariah has been either trying to deal with this on her own or shutting her mother out. Meri does need to respect Mariah's space. And Mariah needs a little more empathy for mom, imo.  Meri is flawed, no doubt ( many posters have outlined them, and I agree with many), but Meri is her mother-- have a little sympathy for a woman who was raised in a polygamous culture and has tried to live that life, only to be miserable because she needs to accept that she is at heart a monogamist.

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12 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

I believe the kids of my lesbian friends would say it was no big deal that they didn't have a father. And I never knew it was a child's right to have one parent or the other. Robyn was absolutely correct in saying it doesn't matter who contributes the sperm, there will be two loving moms in Mariah's family.

I've been thinking about this.  I am not saying 2 moms wouldn't be loving....I am sure they would absolutely be.  But I am also sure that it is a normal human need to know your roots (not 100% of people because people are never 100% of anything).  I am looking for somebody who was adopted out of our family decades ago.  Through this I have found various search websites and learned of peoples' stories.  They desperately YEARN to know who their bio parents are and to know if they have any half siblings.  They want the biological connection.  People use Ancestry DNA matches to try to track down any biological link.   My husband's father died when my husband was very, very young and he has felt that loss to this day...even though he had a stepfather.  If your friends' children are young, then they don't think about it yet.  If they are teens, they may feel uncomfortable and ungrateful expressing their wishes to their moms.  When one finally marries and has children of their own, things take on a different perspective.  Are they that old yet?  If we wish to expand the boundaries of what we consider acceptable, then we should keep the needs of the children at the forefront.   With this in mind, having a sperm donor who will remain connected to the family (as it seems Melissa Etheridge/David Crosby have done) seems, to me, the kindest path.  

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7 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

But I am also sure that it is a normal human need to know your roots (not 100% of people because people are never 100% of anything).

My friends used a sperm bank that allows the exchange of donor information. The kids have the same donor so they are full siblings and they were told all the pertinent info when they were old enough to understand. They also have wonderful male influences in the family. So far, so good.

I was side-eyeing Meri's lack of knowledge about "how it is done" considering she was debating IVF and possible surrogacy with Robyn.

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3 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

I was side-eyeing Meri's lack of knowledge about "how it is done" considering she was debating IVF and possible surrogacy with Robyn.

I found Meri and Robyn's discussion of this highly inappropriate, especially since both women were getting a laugh from it.  I get that Robyn was trying to lighten the mood, but Mariah is going to see these shows.  I'm tired of Meri pretending that she's some wide-eyed innocent.  She's 45 years old.  And yet, she hadn't ever heard of a "catfish," and now she acts like she can't figure out how her daughter can have children of her own.  Give me a break.

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10 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

My friends used a sperm bank that allows the exchange of donor information. The kids have the same donor so they are full siblings and they were told all the pertinent info when they were old enough to understand. They also have wonderful male influences in the family. So far, so good.

I was side-eyeing Meri's lack of knowledge about "how it is done" considering she was debating IVF and possible surrogacy with Robyn.

Great!  So glad to hear it.  The sperm bank providing access to that information really acknowledges the "need to know."  

I think she was trying to get Mariah to state what she was intending.  how could Meri NOT know how things are done?

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Mariah may want an apology from Meri but I don't think it would in any way change the way Mariah acts about it or treats Meri. She doesn't want to understand or have a resolution. She wants to blame and punish Meri as much as possible. She refused to even entertain Kody's comment that his behavior contributed to her unhappiness. She is loving lording this over her mom with a great big 'I told you so'. 

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I agree with many of the observations upthread about how Meri just can't seem to get out of her own head.  I've been pretty critical of her, but, last night, I caught a glimpse of someone that I really do believe is CLUELESS.  The way she just can't seem to wrap her brain around things....I've always thought that she was pretending to be that way.  And how she's not able to process things.  She says that a lot.  Well, I think it's TRUE!  She really doesn't seem to be able to get it.  It's like her mind is stuck somewhere in 1969.  Yes, it's her daughter who has announced she is gay, but, her sentiments reminded me of a devoutly religious person, who lives in a isolated region of the country, (never met a gay couple)  and who was born before 1932. (No offense to those seniors over the age of 85.)  Has her head been in the sand since her daughter was born?  

If she was really honest and had no idea that Mariah was gay, then why did others in the family who hadn't even known Mariah for that long know? 

And when Meri used the term "weird," in her conversation with Mariah, I do believe that she meant that the idea of Mariah being gay was weird.  I don't buy that turnaround excuse she used about her meaning that her own reaction was weird.  She tried to backtrack, but, I don't buy it. 

When Meri said that she didn't know how to react to the news, well, there were 4 other women in the room who's reactions she could have mimicked if she really didn't know what to do.  I call it BS.  

As this season has provided so much focus on Meri, it has dawned on me that she would a very difficult person to contend with and tolerate.  I get how Kody is over it.  I really do. 

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1 minute ago, laurakaye said:

You said "one final time."  The problem is, Meri's never done this, not even once!  I do not recall Meri EVER taking accountability for her actions with Mariah.  Now, Kody did - Kody talked with Mariah about how lonely Meri was, hence her finding twu lurve on the interwebz, and hooking up with the "bad peoples."  Granted, we don't get to see everything these people do or say, but Mariah's demeanor with Meri suggests to me that Meri still has not taken responsibility for involving Mariah in her mess.  My take is - Mariah is keeping her distance from Meri, and unless and until Meri finally gets honest, Mariah will continue to turn to her other moms and leave Meri out in the cold.  This is totally on Meri.  Her therapy sessions, her cowed demeanor around Kody, her giggle-fits with Cheryl when talking about Sam, her constant blathering about how her relationship with Mariah is not good - is all on Meri at this point.  And I was one who tended to be sympathetic towards Meri, but not anymore.  If she actually sat down and said those exact bolded words above to her daughter, and then left her alone, things might slowly get better.  But as long as Meri dances around the truth with everyone in her entire family, it ain't gonna happen.  Because I whole-heatedly believe that if Sam had been real, Meri would be gone, and Mariah knows it.

I think Mariah has lost all respect for Meri and I can't say that I blame her.  Meri never should have discussed the catfishing crap or her marital issues with Mariah in the first place.  I'm sitting here trying to envision seeing racy pictures of my mother suggestively eating a banana all over the Internet; it would definitely make me think differently about her, at the very least.  Regardless of whether Meri's marriage to Kody was legal or not, they view it as a real, binding relationship, so, yes, Meri was attempting to cheat on her "husband."  Mariah knows this.  I've been close to my mother my entire life and somehow skipped over the whole "my mom is my enemy" phase as a teenager.  Now, at the age of 40, I view her as my best friend.  That being said, my mom has always maintained healthy boundaries surrounding her marriage to my father.  She has never bitched to me about my dad, much less confided in me about another man she was cozying up to.  Meri has undermined herself by treating Mariah as a friend, confidant, and replacement partner practically from day one.  For Meri to take full responsibility for her broken relationship with Mariah (and begin the work to repair it) would require a degree of introspection that I'm afraid Meri just isn't capable of.  The dysfunction in this family on every conceivable level is just jaw-dropping.

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I thought the 72 ounce steak eating contest was gross.  What a waste of food. I know they took the meat home, but still, the whole thing was gross.

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14 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Mariah may want an apology from Meri but I don't think it would in any way change the way Mariah acts about it or treats Meri. She doesn't want to understand or have a resolution. She wants to blame and punish Meri as much as possible. She refused to even entertain Kody's comment that his behavior contributed to her unhappiness. She is loving lording this over her mom with a great big 'I told you so'. 

I see it a little bit differently.  I agree that Mariah wants to blame and punish Meri, but that's because Meri simply will not take responsibility for her actions.  She keeps saying she was "targeted" by the catfisher.  But she wouldn't have been targeted if she hadn't been looking.  And while I completely sympathize that Meri is literally stuck in her marriage to Kody (in her own mind, anyway), and that she is clearly miserable, Meri involved Mariah in her online shenanigans and even brought her on a road trip to meet her fake friends, if I recall correctly.  Furthermore, Meri asked Kody to stay away, and Kody and Mariah clearly have a great father/daughter relationship.  She conveniently states that it was because she was afraid that her house was being bugged, but I don't buy it.  She wanted Kody to stay away so she could play with her new online boyfriend.  

If someone I trusted screwed up, continually refused to own up to their part in it, played the innocent victim, revised the timelines to make themselves look good, and yet constantly asked for forgiveness, I'd withhold it, too.  Because Meri is not apologizing, she's strategizing.

Edited by laurakaye
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1 minute ago, SuzyLee said:

I think Mariah has lost all respect for Meri and I can't say that I blame her.  Meri never should have discussed the catfishing crap or her marital issues with Mariah in the first place.  I'm sitting here trying to envision seeing racy pictures of my mother suggestively eating a banana all over the Internet; it would definitely make me think differently about her, at the very least.  Regardless of whether Meri's marriage to Kody was legal or not, they view it as a real, binding relationship, so, yes, Meri was attempting to cheat on her "husband."  Mariah knows this.  I've been close to my mother my entire life and somehow skipped over the whole "my mom is my enemy" phase as a teenager.  Now, at the age of 40, I view her as my best friend.  That being said, my mom has always maintained healthy boundaries surrounding her marriage to my father.  She has never bitched to me about my dad, much less confided in me about another man she was cozying up to.  Meri has undermined herself by treating Mariah as a friend, confidant, and replacement partner practically from day one.  For Meri to take full responsibility for her broken relationship with Mariah (and begin the work to repair it) would require a degree of introspection that I'm afraid Meri just isn't capable of.  The dysfunction in this family on every conceivable level is just jaw-dropping.

I partly agree with this, but I also think Mariah is being mean at this point. 

1 minute ago, laurakaye said:

I see it a little bit differently.  I agree that Mariah wants to blame and punish Meri, but that's because Meri simply will not take responsibility for her actions.  She keeps saying she was "targeted" by the catfisher.  But she wouldn't have been targeted if she hadn't been looking.  And while I completely sympathize that Meri is literally stuck in her marriage to Kody (in her own mind, anyway), and that she is clearly miserable, Meri involved Mariah in her online shenanigans and even brought her on a road trip to meet her fake friends, if I recall correctly.  Furthermore, Meri asked Kody to stay away, and Kody and Mariah clearly have a great father/daughter relationship.  She conveniently states that it was because she was afraid that her house was being bugged, but I don't buy it.  She wanted Kody to stay away so she could play with her new online boyfriend.  

If someone I trusted screwed up, continually refused to own up to their part in it, played the innocent victim, revised the timelines to make themselves look good, and yet constantly asked for forgiveness, I'd withhold it, too.  Because Meri is not apologizing, she's strategizing.

And she keeps saying that about the house being "bugged"!  That bugs me.

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Why all the focus on "Meri needs time to process this, it's not what she expected the future to be like"? It's not like she is super close with her daughter and is now bummed about not having late nights popping popcorn and talking about men. Maybe Meri should stop being bothered by her daughter's sexuality and start being bothered by their shitty distant relationship

I think a lot of why Meri is unsettled by Mariah's coming out is that is completely exposes how broken their mother-daughter relationship is for everyone to see. It makes Meri realize that she does not know her own daughter. Mariah didn't tell her first, and used a whole crowd of supportive co-parents in order to cushion herself from the cold reaction that she knew she was going to get from Meri. It's all interlinked. Now that her relationship with Kody has fallen apart, and she never pursued a relationship with her sister wives other than Robyn, Mariah was Meri's only chance at having a close family member. And the fact that Meri could be so blind to something fundamental about her daughter makes it clear that the mother-daughter relationship is no longer what she hoped it would be.

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1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

P.S.Kody, the reason you're not good at fishing is because you can barely move your arms in those tight blouses you wear.)

Ghoulina, I agree with everything you've been saying on this topic, but I just had to mention that the idea of Kody wearing "tight blouses" just cracked me up.  It's such an apt description though!

Meri was so cringeworthy during this episode. I get that her expectations have been altered by this revelation, but she really wasn't listening to the advice (from Robyn and Kody of all people) to work this out in her head on her own time and with her own support system and not to burden Mariah with her process.  I think she has an idea (and some people on this board seem to agree) that her struggles or feelings about this are valid and need to be heard by Mariah.  I think that while she can't help but feel how she feels, it's extremely tone-deaf and self indulgent to think that Mariah is a an appropriate sounding board for her feelings about who Mariah NATURALLY and INHERENTLY is.  I get having to shift expectations and how scary it is, but Mariah is not the person for Meri to go to for a discussion about her disappointment that she will never have a son-in-law.  I think that's what her sister wives and husband and friends are (supposed to be) for.

Also, I totally agree with many of you who can't believe that Meri is so dense that she can't wrap her head around the logistics of how gay people get married and have kids (all the time!) in 2017!

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10 minutes ago, JoannKB said:

I think a lot of why Meri is unsettled by Mariah's coming out is that is completely exposes how broken their mother-daughter relationship is for everyone to see.

I think in Meri's mind not only could she not birth 8 million babies for Kody, but the only one she managed to have is now not perfect in her eyes.  Everything is a reflection of Meri and exists only to please her or to make her the victim so that she can get sympathy.  She pushes people away and cries that they leave.  She refuses to be truthful and tells people to get over it.  I find her exhausting and reprehensible.  I am sad that she is not capable of being supportive to anyone other than herself, including her own daughter.  But of course anyone who questions her horrible behavior is mean.  She said not to call her a victim, but she sure loves playing the role. 

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4 minutes ago, AudreyHorne said:

Ghoulina, I agree with everything you've been saying on this topic, but I just had to mention that the idea of Kody wearing "tight blouses" just cracked me up.  It's such an apt description though!

Meri was so cringeworthy during this episode. I get that her expectations have been altered by this revelation, but she really wasn't listening to the advice (from Robyn and Kody of all people) to work this out in her head on her own time and with her own support system and not to burden Mariah with her process.  I think she has an idea (and some people on this board seem to agree) that her struggles or feelings about this are valid and need to be heard by Mariah.  I think that while she can't help but feel how she feels, it's extremely tone-deaf and self indulgent to think that Mariah is a an appropriate sounding board for her feelings about who Mariah NATURALLY and INHERENTLY is.  I get having to shift expectations and how scary it is, but Mariah is not the person for Meri to go to for a discussion about her disappointment that she will never have a son-in-law.  I think that's what her sister wives and husband and friends are (supposed to be) for.

Also, I totally agree with many of you who can't believe that Meri is so dense that she can't wrap her head around the logistics of how gay people get married and have kids (all the time!) in 2017!

A parent should never burden their child with feelings of "disappointment" unless their kid is a criminal douche and winds up in prison. 

And as others have said, the thing that bugs me about Meri is how supposedly "unaware" she appears to be. Hadn't heard of a "catfish"? Doesn't know how her daughter could have a child? It's like it's an act.

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23 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

If someone I trusted screwed up, continually refused to own up to their part in it, played the innocent victim, revised the timelines to make themselves look good, and yet constantly asked for forgiveness, I'd withhold it, too.  Because Meri is not apologizing, she's strategizing.

This is everything anyone needs to know to understand why Mariah continues to hold the cat-fishing thing against Meri. Has nothing to do with lording it over her. Instead, it has everything to do with holding Meri to account for all of  Meri's lies and bullshit. You can only be forgiven for something once you take responsibility for your transgressions. Meri refuses to take responsibility; Mariah refuses to grant forgiveness. The two things are inextricably linked. It's as simple as that.

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21 minutes ago, Runnergirl said:

And she keeps saying that about the house being "bugged"!  That bugs me.

It's annoying but understandable.  They lived (inappropriately) in secrecy and fear for nearly 2 decades. Every unknown car driving down their street was cause for suspicion and alarm.  If a phone book was left on their doorstep, they probably burned it. Look at how they ran off to Vegas!  These are paranoid peeps.  Jackie was probably using the Find Friends feature on her phone and Meri's phone. "You're at Hobby Lobby now.  I've got people watching you.  Don't mess with me!!"

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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

If Tony knows how to cook, how could he not know that one does not place a cookie sheet on top of a stove?  Didn't the big black burn marks tip him off?

That scene was truly frightening. When Christine I'm-Afraid-of-Toasters Brown is correcting you in the kitchen, you know it's bad. 

 

1 hour ago, Adiba said:

Yeah, to a certain extent-- Mariah has been either trying to deal with this on her own or shutting her mother out. Meri does need to respect Mariah's space. And Mariah needs a little more empathy for mom, imo.  Meri is flawed, no doubt ( many posters have outlined them, and I agree with many), but Meri is her mother-- have a little sympathy for a woman who was raised in a polygamous culture and has tried to live that life, only to be miserable because she needs to accept that she is at heart a monogamist.

I think Mariah probably did have sympathy for that. Mariah seems to have always been close to her mother, and she was trying to warn her mother away from the Catfishing situation. I think what Mariah doesn't have sympathy for is the charade. Meri is still pretending like she was just looking for FRIENDS on the internet and this is no reflection on her marriage, etc. etc. Her denial of the truth is annoying as hell to ME, so I can see how Mariah would be totally over it. Meri pulled her into her drama and now wants to act like something totally different happened. If Meri owned up to it all and truly apologized, and Mariah was STILL being standoffish, then I'd tire of her attitude. But right now I fully understand it. 

I think between her experiences away from home and the Catfish scandal, Mariah had a bit of a Come to Jesus moment about who her mother is, and I don't know if they'll ever be able to come back from it entirely. 

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Tony got just a teensy bit attractive because he can cook delicious mexican food.  That looked so good!  And the poor guy looked a little stressed out over it.  

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Between being distracted the entire show by everyone's bad eyebrows - Meri, Robyn and Janelle, including the kids now too! and hearing "fill" "fillings" "dill and "dillings", I couldn't pay attention to anything.

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11 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

It's annoying but understandable.  They lived (inappropriately) in secrecy and fear for nearly 2 decades.  Look at how they ran off to Vegas!  

I agree to an extent, but I've always thought that the family's fear in high-tailing it to Vegas was way overblown and exaggerated, just as I think Meri's revisionist history regarding her "fear" of the catfish is complete bullshit.  Her teary story from last week about how scared she was during the car ride with the catfish had me rolling in the aisles.  

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2 minutes ago, MV713 said:

Between being distracted the entire show by everyone's bad eyebrows - Meri, Robyn and Janelle, including the kids now too! and hearing "fill" "fillings" "dill and "dillings", I couldn't pay attention to anything.

I so agree with you!  LOL  And I have to add, "somethink", "goink", "believink" and all their words that end in "G" to the list of distractions.  OMG, I kept saying outloud: weren't these people ever taught the sounds of letters of the alphabet?  It's enough to drive this viewer up the wall.  LOL  

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9 minutes ago, gunderda said:

Tony got just a teensy bit attractive because he can cook delicious mexican food.  That looked so good!  And the poor guy looked a little stressed out over it.  

I can't imagine the stress he was under with the 4 'mothers' in the kitchen and a dozen kids all asking him questions, plus the pressure cooking for 20+ people would be enough to give any new fiance', especially one who hadn't yet been accepted by the family, a heart attack.  Thank goodness his food was good!  lol  Poor guy.  

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17 minutes ago, MV713 said:

Between being distracted the entire show by everyone's bad eyebrows - Meri, Robyn and Janelle, including the kids now too! and hearing "fill" "fillings" "dill and "dillings", I couldn't pay attention to anything.

I know, now I'm kind of bummed that I didn't even notice the food Tony made!

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14 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

... I've always thought that the family's fear in high-tailing it to Vegas was way overblown and exaggerated...

My wife and I are not sure this is true. My wife and I think the prosecutor and the State of Utah were positively salivating over the opportunity to crucify this family and make an example of them. They obviously haven't cared enough to do anything about what's going on at Short Creek, but the Browns provided them the perfect opportunity to say "See? We are doing something about those wicked, bad, naughty, evil polygamists!" After all, if Utah actually cared about this, there's a whole community right on their southern border where they knew polygamists were "hiding in plain sight" the whole time. They could have done something about polygamy (and a truly evilly-practiced form of it at that!) any time they wanted to. It was only when the Browns went public and made the state and the LDS church look bad nationally that they decided they had to do something about it. Even the situation at Short Creek is the same in that regard: It's only once national attention began to focus on them that the State (really, the LDS church, since they're in control of government there from the state level to the local level) started to do anything about them. Provided the Browns weren't manipulating any of the social support systems (food stamps, etc), the state and the LDS church should have simply continued ignoring them. Nothing good could have come from jailing the Brown family primaries or inflicting any punishments or penalties upon the family.

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56 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

I agree to an extent, but I've always thought that the family's fear in high-tailing it to Vegas was way overblown and exaggerated, just as I think Meri's revisionist history regarding her "fear" of the catfish is complete bullshit.  Her teary story from last week about how scared she was during the car ride with the catfish had me rolling in the aisles.  

Yeah and that I'm bolting any minute Alaska dinner scene where the catfish story line started was an interesting touch on tlc' s part.  Every time she revises the whole I was such a victim, waa, waa, tlc reruns that scene.  I laugh every time they do that.  Well done, tlc, well done.

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