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Mindhunter

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I wonder if it will resemble that show from years ago that had David Soul in it?  Iirc, episodes were basically lifted from the book. Not sure though

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The music that plays in the trailer (not the teaser) sounds like a creepy screechy string version of "If You Could Read My Mind". That would be a pretty good song choice for this show (aaand I can't believe I've only heard the house music version in the 90s and didn't even know there's an original version that was made in the 70s and soooo muuuuuch better).

So excited for more Jonathan Groff on my TV. The trailer kind of heavily implies his character is going to turn out to be some kind of psycho, though. I hope that's just misdirection and not what actually happens on the show, because I'm not sure I want a repeat of finding the leads in Hannibal attractive and wondering if there's something wrong with me for still finding them attractive after watching them do all kinds of psychotic things. Heh!

Netflix has a couple of clips up now, besides the teaser and the trailer. That "Tense" clip is pretty funny.

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I have been wanting this show since 1995; that's when I bought my copy of John Douglas's book Mindhunter and got it autographed. To have it directed by David Fincher just makes it better than I could have imagined. To have him take Zodiac's attention to detail and applying it to the whole Investigative Support Unit is going to make for some intense viewing.

Edited by Violet Impulse · Reason: Fixing bad HTML code attempt
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The trailer is already doing a hell of a job of making Jonathan Groff look creepy. Maybe I'm reading too much into it because I must have watched that trailer about a dozen times by now, but it sure sounds like his character is going to go off the rails, what with the woman (his girlfriend?) in the trailer saying "what did you do?" to him like he did something bad, and someone (his boss?) telling him "you're developing a pattern of behavior that will not sustain you here." Combine that with a whole bunch of scenes where he kind of has a creepy look on his face, and the way he says "there's no procedural rulebook for how to talk to these people. You want truffles? You gotta get in the dirt with the pigs."

I hope his character doesn't turn out to be a creepy psycho, but I'm sure he has the acting chops to pull off "creepy psycho". I'm only worried he'd be so convincingly creepy that I'd be forever creeped out whenever I see him in anything. That would not be good. Maybe he can just teeter on the edge of psychopathy a little bit without falling off the edge. That would be okay. Hee!

Man, this week needs to go by faster so I can stop overanalysing the trailer.

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Thanks, that makes me feel a bit better! I didn't know his character is supposed to be John Douglas (sort of)! Though Fincher has taken liberties with true stories before (like making stuff up about Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network)... and Holden Ford doesn't even have the same name as John Douglas, so the show can potentially go crazy making stuff up for his character. I hope you're right, though.

Maybe it's mostly the creepy string music making me think everything in that trailer is super duper creepy. Heh.

There's new trailers on Netflix! "Psycho Killers" and "The Opposite of Crazy". Holden definitely comes off more like a guy who has his shit together in the new trailers. The way he looks at Bill like "Can you believe this fucking guy?" when talking to Ed Kemper in "The Opposite of Crazy" cracks me up.

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They are specifically based on John Douglas, Robert Ressler, and Ann Burgess, but fictionalized to free them up for more drama. I doubt the John Douglas character will turn psycho, but I would not be surprised to see him get viral encephalitis and hallucinate that he is being captured and tortured by a serial killer though...

I wonder if this forum will need a Real Life History topic to cover things that might otherwise seem like spoilers. Opinions?

I like the name Holden Ford, though; it reminds me of Blade Runner. Holden was the cop that ran the Voigt-Kampff on Leon in the beginning ("Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.") Ford is, well, Harrison. Probably just coincidence.

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I have been looking forward to this and the first episode was  really good. It's a little weird seeing Jonathan Groff in a serious role but so far so good.  I'm not sure if I'll binge watch this but I'm definitely in. 

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I found the acting a bit wooden and the dialogs stiff, almost theatrical.  But it did keep my interest and it gets better in the second episode.  I’m in.

Edited by sisterspoon · Reason: Typo
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Can’t stand the girlfriend.  I just hate female characters that have witty annoying comebacks to everything.  “There dialogue in bed was so “writer trying to be clever”. So unnatural.  If this was a show about relationships I wouldn’t mind the sex scenes at all but it’s so HBO to throw them in there when it doesn’t have much to do with the plot.

Edited by Laurie4H
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I was annoyed at John Douglas’ character just announcing he was a Fed at the bar. I’ve been a bit of a badge bunny in the past & no one-federal or local level-discloses their occupation in a bar. 

 

But I love true crime so I liked it. I was sad I knew every killer they mentioned. Read a book not about crime jmcd44. 

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3 hours ago, sisterspoon said:

I found the acting a bit wooden and the dialogs stiff, almost theatrical.  But it did keep my interest and it gets better in the second episode.  I’m in.

Yeah, several of the actors are a bit stiff. The lead is like an alien pretending to be human. I was grumbling about the show aping David Fincher's style until I saw his credit as director and EP. LOL. I had no idea this was his project. Anyway, I like it so far despite the stiff line readings.

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Aw, I thought he was adorkable!

I understand the alien thing, though, 'cause he was so awkward and looked confused for most of the episode, but I think that's just because the character is going through some kind of existential crisis.

I don't get how he got blood (that was blood, right?) on his sleeve, though. Was that from the guy blowing his brains out? How did he get just a bit on the sleeve while the rest of the shirt is clean?

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I pretty much squealed in fear when this gigantic dude moved towards Holden and then I gasped when he had Holden by the neck. Even though I was pretty sure they're not killing off the main character in episode 2.

Of course the prison made Holden sign a waiver. Hee!

Loved that Fly like an Eagle montage. Alka seltzer never looked so slick. And they both look so exhausted. Aw!

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I found the acting a bit wooden and the dialogs stiff, almost theatrical.  But it did keep my interest and it gets better in the second episode.  I’m in.

I'm completely happy because I like procedure in my procedurals; the investigative process is the star of the show for me. I like the actors, most of whom I don't recognize from any particular thing, and although some dialog can be... clunky, I forgive it that.

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Really good series. 

2 hours ago, Bec said:

I don't get how he got blood (that was blood, right?) on his sleeve, though. Was that from the guy blowing his brains out? How did he get just a bit on the sleeve while the rest of the shirt is clean?

Yea, I'm not sure how far blood splatter travels. He may have gone in for a closer look and got some on his sleeve???

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I enjoyed the first episode. I found the lead character (fish out of water, aloof, inexperienced intellectual who butts against the salt-of-the-earth street cops) a little on the nose and trope-ish. The lead actor/ performance has actually grown on me in the second episode and it is helped no end by the more abrasive and direct presence of Tench.  

Edited by Pindrop
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I loved the dark comedy in this episode; it expertly balanced bleak drama and levity. This series is getting good.  

Edited by Pindrop
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11 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Can’t stand the girlfriend.  I just hate female characters that have witty annoying comebacks to everything.  “There dialogue in bed was so “writer trying to be clever”. So unnatural.  If this was a show about relationships I wouldn’t mind the sex scenes at all but it’s so HBO to throw them in there when it doesn’t have much to do with the plot.

Totally agree. I don’t care about the girlfriend character and really don’t care about his home life. 

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Many complaints, and a few questions:

  • Is this assumed to be a continuing series?  Because that's the only way I can justify all the BTK vignettes that never connected to our main characters.
  • Is Holden actually dying, because of something Thickglasses did when he hugged him?  Or is Holden just having a severe attack of My-Theories-Are-All-Wrongitis?
  • Whoever casts the fabulous Lena Olin and then puts her in just a single 3-minute scene should be brought before a tribunal in The Hague.
  • Anna Torv grew on me in Fringe, where, over multiple seasons, characters, and timelines, we got to see behind the default flat affect.  But in this series, we never got behind that.   
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1 hour ago, Clare said:

I hated the Anna Torv character, her and her questionnaire was so annoying. What was the symbolism with the stray cat supposed to be?  That went over my head.

Anvilicious, but I thought it was showing how her scientific methods are not prepared for what wild nature can actually serve up, i.e.,  you can use science to try to help, but in the end, ants = aberrant serial killer behavior that we can't predict or pre-empt.  I could be wrong:  Sometimes a dropped can of tuna teeming with ants is just a dropped can of tuna teeming with ants.

 

1 hour ago, Clare said:

Were we supposed to feel sorry for the tickling principal?  It's weird to me that that would fly even on the 70s.  Evan with the benefit of the doubt that he's not a pedophile, if people are telling you to keep your hands off their kids keep your hands off their kids.  I think we were supposed to see this as a grey area and I really didn't.

I agree on not seeing it as a grey area, but I did think this was an effective depiction of the risks of applying Holden's pre-crime methods.  I think we're supposed to see the principal as possibly skeevy and possibly not; we can't tell what he might do, but he loses his job/career anyway.  (Did people generally know about tickle-fetishes in 1977?)  

Edited by Penman61
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49 minutes ago, Clare said:

Were we supposed to feel sorry for the tickling principal?  It's weird to me that that would fly even on the 70s.  Evan with the benefit of the doubt that he's not a pedophile, if people are telling you to keep your hands off their kids keep your hands off their kids.  I think we were supposed to see this as a grey area and I really didn't.

I don't feel a bit sorry for the principal. He was advised more than once to stop touching kids. He knew he was the subject of the board of supervisors, police, parent groups & the FBI, and he still kept touching kids. If I was a parent, I'd freak the hell out on him!

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Is this assumed to be a continuing series?  Because that's the only way I can justify all the BTK vignettes that never connected to our main characters.

Anna Torv grew on me in Fringe, where, over multiple seasons, characters, and timelines, we got to see behind the default flat affect.  But in this series, we never got behind that.   

Yes, this series has been renewed. Maybe they will flash forward at the end of the series to capture BTK. (15 years after his last known murder) I've always wondered about that myself. Were there more that they didn't know about? Why did he stop?

I did notice Anna Torv's flat affect. I haven't seen her in anything since Fringe, so I thought it was just that character. It's very distracting. 

I thought Holden was just having a panic attack. Who could blame him. 

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It's like god in heaven made a show just for me! I love it already. In fact, I started screaming and yelling about Edmund Kemper when I saw the next-episode preview box on the screen, eliciting a bored "That's nice, dear" from my not-interested-in-crime boyfriend.

Edited by kariyaki · Reason: removed now unnecessary spoiler tag
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I've just finished it. Overall, I thought it was superb.

It is nice to have a well paced and believable character arc over a series; this is so seldom handled well. That said, the final panic attack and the concern over the methods he had been employing was not adequately established for me. 

Like others, I did not see any shades of grey with the principal; he should not have been touching the kids. I realise that times were different when the show was set, but under the lens of now (when we are watching it) it is difficult to have any sympathy for him. 

In terms of the tuna, my sense of it was the following: She was using a carrot (or, more accurately, tuna) to entice out something she expected to be there (in accordance with her pre-conceived notions and confirmation bias); but it turned out that her preconceptions were wrong and all she got was some maggoty tuna (see any parallels?). 

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I loved this series - couldn't stop watching.  Fincher is my favorite director, bar none, and he is so good with dark crime procedurals, and with capturing the look and mood of a particular decade.   Of course, Zodiac comes to mind here.

I think Groff did a really nice job here - started out as a stiff, flatly-affected nerd, and seamlessly evolved into a pseudo self-assured, slightly sleazy, and relatively savvy profiler & interviewer.  I really like Tench as well - not familiar with this actor's work, but he feels like a true world-weary cop who's willing and trying to accept new ideas.

Good stuff - ready for Season 2!

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Even though I was pretty sure they're not killing off the main character in episode 2.

Well, the actual "Holden" is alive so maybe we don't have to worry? Though who knows what twists the dramatization might take, I guess?

I loved the montage!

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I binged on the first seven episodes last night and then finished the season this morning. Overall, it was engrossing and well-executed. The acting was hit or miss for me: Holt McCallany was the VIP by far and gave a real lived-in feel to his character. Anna Torv was a miss with her flat affect and permanently puckered expression. Hannah Gross (Holden's girlfriend) was absolutely horrible on a high school drama club level and I can't believe she managed to snag a role in a Fincher production. He can coax a good performance out of anyone, even Ben Affleck, and that was the very best that she could do? Jonathan Groff was mostly good but I kept wondering how a different actor might have been better. The actors who were cast as the serial killers were excellent. The production design was A+ but sometimes the low-level audio (particularly in the Fincher-directed episodes) had me reaching for the volume button.

I'm looking forward to season two but this didn't blow my mind or anything. It was good, maybe great, but nothing I haven't seen before from other directors in other formats.

Edited by LilaFowler
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I am sort-of interested...watched the first two episodes; hopefully it picks up a little. 

The actor who plays the nutcase/murderer in prison who had sex with his mother's head?  Thought he was fantastic.  Scary but pulls you in with his ordinary-ness.  Liked how the lead actor was bonding with him over women problems.

  Speaking of...

Maybe it is my age(70) but I am certainly no prude.  I found the some of the sex scenes between the lead and his annoying girlfriend a little gratuitous.  I don't need to actually see a guy struggling to please his lover via oral sex.  Kind of wish they would just stick to the procedural stuff which is way more interesting.  Just me?  

Edited by kariyaki · Reason: Removed now unnecessary spoiler tag
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Very odd show. It was ploddingly slow and uneventful but somehow still kept my interest. I was intrigued by all the characters, particularly Holden and Dr. Carr. I'm always curious about excessively buttoned-up, emotionless protagonists and generally find their naive single-mindedness a bit endearing. I liked that the 70s wasn't presented in a kitschy or nostalgic manner, but just there.

The actor who played Kemper was fantastic; he really nailed the actual killer's mannerisms and look.

In the end, I'm not sure what I was supposed to get out of this. If the intent was to show how the FBI developed their criminal profiling/behavioral sciences unit, that could have been done in a 90 minute movie. If it's meant as a character study, okay, but I honestly would have liked it better without the focus on the three leads' personal lives that ultimately went nowhere. If it was meant as an indictment of police procedures and gender attitudes of the past ... nah, that wasn't it.

So I did like it but am not sure why. It's getting generally positive critical and user reviews from what I've seen.

Edited by 2727
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After about 10 minutes into this I knew I was going to love it. Surprised at some of the discension, but that’s ok. I’m all in. Loved Jonathan Groff in this. Totally binging this over the weekend. 

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I'll third that on the montage. Best one I've seen lately, outside of the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul shows. I backed it up and watched it two more times. I am a fan of the "why" of these types of crimes. I find the psychology fascinating. And I love the dark comedy, too. Yep, this one is right up my alley.... came along just when I was looking for something new, and good, to watch. Off to watch episode three.

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The overly nice, fumbly detective Ocasek reminded me so much of Morgan Spurlock that I kept picturing him eating Big Macs.

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I was so excited to watch this, as I'm a huge David Fincher fan, but sadly I'm not on board so far. Really hoping it gets better, or I'm going to have to throw in the towel.

I'm normally very patient with slow-burning drama, and I LOVE investigative procedurals, but this is just deadly boring. After a promising (shocking) start, it just slowed to a crawl. I'm not finding the lead remotely interesting - there's nothing compelling about his character. Not sure if it's the actor, or the way he's written, or both. A running gag in the show is that people assume he's a Mormon because of his conservative dress. I'm starting to think his character would be more interesting if he WERE a Mormon. I also hate the girlfriend character - their dialogue is so stiff and awkward, not the way actual people speak at all. Not sensing any spark, and their sex scenes seem oddly tossed in and gratuitous.

The biggest problem I'm seeing with this show, is that there is no dramatic tension whatsoever. I get that it's about the early beginnings of profiling, but so far, It's basically like sitting in a  series of criminology lectures. There are no stakes, it's just people discussing theories.

Silence of the Lambs worked because the Feds were interviewing a criminal and racing against the clock to catch a killer. Zodiac had a ton of scenes with guys sitting around in rooms talking, but it worked because there was an overarching plot which was insanely gripping, mixed with a few genuinely hair-raising set-pieces. It was an incredibly well-mondulated film, and I was expecting more of the same.

So far this is just guys sitting around in rooms talking. You disappoint me David Fincher.

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Still not sold on the series, but I like the partner, and that montage sequence was most excellent.

The actor who played the coed killer was also very good - extremely creepy. However the rest is still leaving me cold. Hoping we see less of the girlfriend, and more casework.

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It was a bit talky for a pilot episode, basically an introduction  to Criminal Psychology. I hope it picks up the pace in further episodes though.

I found Holden a bit of a doofus, but an interesting doofus in comparison with his partner. They meshed nicely.

Yes, I know they are in SMALL TOWN AMERICA or QUANTICO. No need to shout that loudly. My retinas are still burning.

I am neither hot or cold on the girlfriend. I thought she made a nice foil to the dry main character.

Main reason I am watching this is because I haven't seen Anna Torv in anything in ages, so I hope she shows up soon enough.

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