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S03.E07: Episode 7

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Did Helen confiscate Noah's cell phone? If so, was she doing something to it to prevent it from locking her out?

Slightly off-topic: is it that easy to get addicted to painkillers? I have intense back pain, so painkillers seem more and more appealing, but not if addiction seems unavoidable. 

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6 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Slightly off-topic: is it that easy to get addicted to painkillers? I have intense back pain, so painkillers seem more and more appealing, but not if addiction seems unavoidable. 

We don't really know much about Noah's addiction.  They've been very vague on when he started taking the Vicodin, where he got it and from which doctor.  It seemed he had them when he left prison?  For his shoulder, which is somehow still broken?  And then got more after his neck stabbing?  Did he stab himself to get more Vicodin?

As to the broader question, opioid addiction is a huge problem these days, so I'm guessing it is that easy to get addicted. 

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12 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Slightly off-topic: is it that easy to get addicted to painkillers? I have intense back pain, so painkillers seem more and more appealing, but not if addiction seems unavoidable. 

If you take them every day, you'll get addicted pretty soon. If you don't take them every day, and only take them when the pain is bad, you should be fine. (Although there are people with addictive personalities who start out convinced they'll only take them as necessary, and end up taking them every day.)

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Oh, I'll add that, IF you have insurance, you can go to an orthopedist, have them do x-rays and figure out what is causing the back pain (if you haven't done this already), and they have treatments they can try without resorting to pain pills. My fiance is doing this now, and there are two treatments the doc is recommending:  an injection to nerves near the disc where the tissue is worn out to deaden the nerves there to minimize the pain, and the other is an electrode thingie on those same nerves, also to deaded the pain.  Might be worth a try, depending on what your situation is.

Just like Noah could maybe see a doctor about that shoulder, AND about that neck wound.  I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why Helen did not take him straight to an ER rather than taking him home and having Vik look at him.

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Thanks, izabella. Yes, I had the injection to the base of my spine. That alleviated the pain for a couple of days. Oh, well. But best wishes to your fiancé with his treatment. 

Helen sometimes has no more common sense than Whitney. 

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I know this show doesn't do episode titles but I feel like this one should have been entitled: Oh Helen. No honey, no!  And here I thought Alison was the resident victim, pathetic, perpetual sad sack but here we have a new contender for the throne. Her whole segment was embarrassing. 

All four of the mains in this story - Helen, Noah, Alison, Cole. I just want to take all four and yell at them: One of you raise your standards please! One of you please learn to love yourself just one millimeter more. Look at your lives, look at your choices! Damn! 

What kind of episode is this when Vik is the one to root for. I was so damn happy to see him pack his bags and leave and not because I don't like him and want him gone but because even he deserves better than this. 

21 hours ago, chick binewski said:

So, with that I'd like a Vik POV before the end of the season. At least MESF had a somewhat linear, truthful POV. Why not give Vik a shot? Perhaps it will include a lengthy backstory on his attachment to cacti.  

Hell, if Prof So Franch could get one (the point of which was??), why not Vik? Much like the real estate pricing on this show, Vik just never made any kind of sense to me.  Why would a terribly attractive, fit, surgeon in NYC, no less where the odds are heavily in his favor, want to be in a long term relationship with baggage laden, fish mouthed Helen with her rude ass kids and messy ass ex? Half the time, it didn't even appear like she liked his ass. The only way he would make sense to me was if he was some 40-something barrista or shirt folder at The Gap looking for a suga mama and a come up.

Pill popping, hallucination having Noah's is a completely unreliable narrator so I really don't put much credence into any part of his story. 

Noah's OZ experience is the worse part of this deteriorating show. 

That knife purchase at the Gunther hunting store? Oh yeah, somebody's getting stabbed by the end of the season!!!

I was half expecting prison guard's mom to say he died a year ago or something. 

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UNDERSTAND why Helen did not take him straight to an ER

Cause it would make perfect sense to a normal person. ;-)   Noah was originally taken to the hospital after he was attacked. But I have a feeling he doesn't have a regular GP for any kind of follow up.  Oh, and rewatching Noahs POV, Vic does offer to write him a script for the Vicodin, if Noah agrees to get the hell out.

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If Noah is only teaching one class --he's probably an adjunct with no benefits, so he may not have insurance.   Obviously Helen has money and could pay for him to go--no idea if he has any money left from his book, but in his situation, I doubt he has had easy access to regular care, but I am surprised, if he had this much pain that he did not tell them when he was in the hospital for his neck so they could look at it and help him.    I also wonder how or if he can pay for that hospital bill.    

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I'm sick of the John Gunther angle.  Get to the point. 

The whole Helen-is-agonized, Noah-is-in-agony plot has also become tedious.  I don't blame Whitney for getting out of there.  Both of her parents are losers in their own special way.

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Know what I don't understand, how can so many women jump into bed with a man who has just come out of prison. Not one of them as asked him to get tested for HIV and/or another STI. 

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44 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Know what I don't understand, how can so many women jump into bed with a man who has just come out of prison. Not one of them as asked him to get tested for HIV and/or another STI. 

Nobody uses contraception on this show.  Has there been even one condom mention?  But unless you believe Noah was suddenly bi or raped, why would he leave prison with an STI?

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22 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Nobody uses contraception on this show.  Has there been even one condom mention?  But unless you believe Noah was suddenly bi or raped, why would he leave prison with an STI?

Because the uncomfortable fact is that many men have sex with men in prison, consensually and/or by force and there are high rates of STIs among prisoners. I cannot believe that not one of the women jumping on Noah has asked for him to be tested just to be safe. Incredible.

Edited by SimoneS
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40 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Because the uncomfortable fact is that many men have sex with men in prison, consensually and/or by force and there are high rates of STIs among prisoners. I cannot believe that not one of the women jumping on Noah has asked for him to be tested just to be safe. Incredible.

As the show writers pointed out (via 1 of Prof French' students), "because asking is not sexy"    <<rimshot>>>

Edited by DarkRaichu
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At the time Noah was arrested and then sent to prison, he was a famous author with some money -- though maybe he blew it all on that Manhattan apt. and needed Helen to pay for his legal team.

He confessed but it was manslaughter, not something like first-degree murder?  If it was a serious murder charge, he wouldn't have been released in 3 years.

So with no priors and money, maybe he would have been in country club prison and with good behavior, be out in something like 18 months?

He didn't seem to have problems with other inmates but a prison guard gets to brutalize him without any provocation? 

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11 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

All four of the mains in this story - Helen, Noah, Alison, Cole. I just want to take all four and yell at them: One of you raise your standards please! One of you please learn to love yourself just one millimeter more. Look at your lives, look at your choices! Damn! 

What kind of episode is this when Vik is the one to root for. I was so damn happy to see him pack his bags and leave and not because I don't like him and want him gone but because even he deserves better than this.  

Yeah, the four main all hate themselves for various reasons, Vik to some extend may too, but only to some extent and still has boundaries - the other four clearly don't.

While I get the hating themselves in the case of Helen (parents!), Alison (everything!), Cole (family! Alison! dead child!), I'm still curious about how it all started with Noah and why he needed so much someone who would see him as a clean slate.

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58 minutes ago, Tara Ariano said:

This ep made me figure out how to go ahead and cancel Showtime. Really done with this show. Can always read the recaps for the final episodes but I can't stand watching these people anymore. When Whitney makes the most sense, it has all gone wrong.

 

I can't understand why Vic took on Helen and the monster children in the first place, seems like he must be into aggravation and lunacy. 

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I'm starting to wonder if anything was foreshadowed when Noah bought the knife from Gunther's family store. He's keeping it hidden from Helen. Something is going to happen, I think, and it won't be good. 

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On 1/10/2017 at 0:08 PM, izabella said:

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why Helen did not take him straight to an ER rather than taking him home

She wanted him to herself and (ugh) was probably hoping he would see how much he needs her.

I just remembered the guard eating that burger and trying to rub it in Noah's face. LOL and WTF?

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On 1/12/2017 at 3:28 AM, Armchair Critic said:

She wanted him to herself and (ugh) was probably hoping he would see how much he needs her.

Exactly. Remember how Helen was on the phone leaving that message about Noah being at her home to Nina? Helen didn't want her to come up and take Noah (and all his troubles) from her at all. Helen (in her pov in the episode), needed to prove to herself that she could be observant and try to come to Noah's aid/fix him. 

I'm so glad that Vik left her and that her oldest screwed up child sees that her mother really is just miserable, unhappy and cannot let the man that hurt her go.

She continues to bring up the fact that Noah's their kids father. Noah really doesn't give a crap about those kids, those kids don't care about him and Helen (if she was thinking sanely) wouldn't want Noah around them. 

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and that her oldest screwed up child sees that her mother really is just miserable,

Interesting that in Helen's POV, Whitney is dressed and looks quite sophisticated. In Noah's, she looks all of 12 years old.

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What the hell is going on with this show? I hate the whole tone of this season. I loved the first two seasons even with its flaws but season three is a hot mess.

This season is as hard to watch as the confirmation hearings. 

Showtime had something special with this show, but they shit the bed with the prison storyline. What is the point of this? As someone mentioned upthread, it's the bad storytelling that's ruining everything. There is no cohesion between the characters at all. 

I'm thinking back to Noah's original ending of Descent. Two people sitting down to dinner with a huge secret between them. The showrunners should've kept that in mind for this season. They had a lot of options. Not only are Noah and Helen linked forever through their awful kids, but he went to the clink for her. That could've been a great setup for their relationship. It would've been even better if Alison wasn't involved and had no idea why Noah would confess. Take out that whole attempted rape and just have Scott wander out in the street, drunk. 

I didn't expect Noah to be the same after going to jail, but this is too much. I would've preferred a fall from grace storyline instead of this hallucinating addiction one. 

I'll still watch since I've invested all of this time and I want to see the resolution to this dumpster fire of a season. I'm sure it'll be lame, but I'll keep going, begrudgingly. 

I'm not upset that there will be a season 4. Only because it can't end like this. 

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Did anyone else notice that Noah's bandage went from bled-through to pristine white from the time he was talking to Helen in the kitchen to the time they were out on the back porch?  Continuity monkeys asleep at the wheel, say I.

I really don't like any of these characters anymore.  I'm kind of hate-watching this season.

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On 1/10/2017 at 1:32 PM, islandgal140 said:

Why would a terribly attractive, fit, surgeon in NYC, no less where the odds are heavily in his favor, want to be in a long term relationship with baggage laden, fish mouthed Helen with her rude ass kids and messy ass ex?

Remember when they first started - when she ran into him at the bar - he was a dick. He was drinking on the job and Tinder hopping and seemed bitter and troubled. He would have to be messed up to go for all the baggage you listed. Also, something I think that goes missing with observations of Helen as the woman scorned is she's quite bewitching to men and Vik got caught up in the Helen "thing." Her life sure is interesting, :) she's sophisticated and witty and he seemed to fall under the spell of some kind of twisted happily ever after with her. She uses sex to numb her pain just like everyone else on this show and she works it when she wants to. 

I am one of the few people that like this season. OK wait I admit I shut it off and didn't return for two days when they started with the French prof POV, but I appreciate the nerve they had to do it! Early on in the series I was very distracted by the exaggerated reactions of people during their interactions but I would remind myself that it was one-sided perspective. The "training wheels" we had for viewing the last couple of seasons were the omniscient flash forwards (and video footage) that helped give us some of the "truth" along the way. We don't have that this season so the ride is causing some motion sickness (I'm also struggling with the prison guard story line), but I trust the writing and am interested in how this plays out. The acting is fantastic too. Maura Tierney is absolutely unleashed in this role.

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Yes, Noah raped Helen.  I had the closed captioning on, and at first she kept saying "I know you" and he kept saying "You don't know me," with increasing aggression, and it led to Helen crying out, "Hey, wait" and "Noah, enough!"  He didn't stop.  When it was over, she turned away and started crying.

Thanks for clarifying this. I finally got all caught up on the episodes I missed and I thought that was what I was watching but couldn't believe that was what was actually happening. So I thought I was wrong. Wow...okay then. Even with the ambiguous scene with Alison last season and being disturbed by the whole thing, I still gave Noah the benefit of the doubt. But the writers just took him to a really, really unforgivable, fucked up place there. 

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After the sex/rape scene, I want Noah to OD on a mix of alcohol and pain killers and die from choking on his own vomit.

Damn, tell us how you really feel, lol...

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But it didn't seem like rape in Helen's POV.  Or at least they didn't show as much of the sex in her POV.

We only saw the start in Helen's POV and saw the entire act in Noah's POV. And his did align with her leading him inside and initiating the contact. It's after things got heated that it took a very disturbing part. 

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All four of the mains in this story - Helen, Noah, Alison, Cole. I just want to take all four and yell at them: One of you raise your standards please! One of you please learn to love yourself just one millimeter more. Look at your lives, look at your choices! Damn! 

Yup, basically

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On 1/14/2017 at 5:13 PM, lazylou said:

Someone upstream asked what Noah's prison time was for....try leaving the scene of an accident and vehicular homicide.

Plus: paying $10K to the car repair guy to cover up the car's damage.  The car repair guy taped the conversation and gave it to the police. And, concealing the fact that he brought the car to Max' house to wash off the accident detritus (to which Max testified). And his biggest crime?  Writing a book that spelled out everything that happened with minor name changes.  Geez!

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On 01/10/2017 at 9:48 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did Helen confiscate Noah's cell phone? If so, was she doing something to it to prevent it from locking her out?

Slightly off-topic: is it that easy to get addicted to painkillers? I have intense back pain, so painkillers seem more and more appealing, but not if addiction seems unavoidable. 

Yes, opiod addiction is a huge problem, but you never hear about the many chronic pain patients who do not become addicted.  I had years of experience with pain meds, and had no problem quitting them the  minute I quit my job that was exacerbating my pain.  I found a reputable spine surgeon who was also a pain management specialist; avoided experimental surgery and took Vicodin and Oxycontin daily.  Everybody's different.

Topic?  Never look back, Vik.

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Jesus Christ.  

I think there is no question that Noah raped Helen.  It was violent and she was telling him to stop.  

Noah is clearly ill, however he is also one of the most fucking selfish characters I have seen on screen in a long time.  I want bad things to happen to Noah.  

I'd say maybe now Helen will stop carrying around that guilt of Noah going to prison for her, but alas...knowing Helen, she'll find a way to still be there following Noah around like a puppy dog.  

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I don't think Helen was raped.  This is a woman who has been going to prison, going to the hospital, following Noah to Pennsylania twice, getting abused by his sister,  everybody wondering why she was at the fathers funeral, asking Max about Noah, being told by her daughter she is obsessed, being told by Vic she is obsessed, and still always sticking up for Noah - in all these scenes Noah has pulled away his hand, been reluctant and basically just caved to her bossy I have to take care of you ways because he is such a vortex of bad happenings he always needs help.  Her point of view of the her not wanting the sex is just her own rationalization of see I am not the biggest needy sucker sap walking the face of the earth.  Noah truly fucked himself when he slept with her 

It is really truly painful to watch someone want someone else that badly that does not want them. 

I saw Brendan Fraser on Kelly Rippa?  IDK one of those and he was just as creepy in real life as he is in the show.  

If that shoulder was broken in 3 places in prison it was most likely poorly set and attended to and I wouldn't be surprised that they just throw vicodin at the problem.  So I'm assuming he became hooked in prison.  Who knows, maybe they send prisoners out the gate with one 90 day refill

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Two year old thread, but I’m going for it!  

The main characters in this show have literally made the same mistakes and bad choices over and over and over.  More importantly, no one learns anything or shows any growth or improvement from their mistakes.  The solution to every problem is to have sex - 50% of which is not with your current significant other.  I don’t expect a TV show to completely reflect real life, but come on... And why did the writers ruin Helen’s character?

This is the last episode I’ll be watching - I only watched the last two or three episodes hoping it would get better. It didn’t - the show is terrible and depressing.  

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