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Well, That Wouldn't Work Now: Things From Movies That Are Outdated or No Longer Politically Correct

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On 11/24/2017 at 4:36 PM, Ohwell said:

Anyway, I shudder to think about the names would be called for doing that today, especially in light of all the sexual harassment stories.

I still think it would fly today.  In fact, a lot of things that wouldn't fly in "real life" work in "reel life" because the actions are used as short hands to evoke certain feelings and emotions or represent them on film.  Like smoking is still used more than I would have expected ten years ago to represent coolness, being a rebel and even great sex.

So sure, some might take issue with it but the woman's reaction is perfectly within the writer and director's control.  And if she doesn't have a problem with it, then I think very few in the audience will. 

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4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Like smoking is still used more than I would have expected ten years ago to represent coolness, being a rebel and even great sex.

Conversely, the MPAA has started to include smoking as one of the things they warn about in movies, right up there with adult situations and rude humor, and I'm not sure when that came into play. So it might still be portrayed as cool or whatever, but the 'need' to warn people that it's even present in the movie strikes me as the equivalent of "don't try this at home".

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I finally got around to seeing Goldie Hawn's magnum opus, Private Benjamin. It was pretty funny, but four things stuck out to me while watching it with my modern-day eyes:

1.) They never redeem Captain Lewis. I think a modern movie would have tried to make her more sympathetic, like what happens with Miranda and Andie at the end of The Devil Wears Prada. If the movie was made now, there would be a point in the movie where Captain Lewis admits she's actually fond of Judy, and she's proud of her. I expected it to happen, and it didn't and I was kind of shocked.

2.) The slut-shaming of P.J. Soles' character, who's discovered having sex with Craig T. Nielsen's character and publicly humiliated for it. It's seen as a funny comeuppance for her because she's...not very friendly to Judy? Kind of a brown-noser to Captain Lewis?

3.) Judy gets sexually assaulted by her commanding officer, and she uses that to blackmail him into giving her a better post assignment. It's also played for laughs. Like, no way in hell would that be accepted in a movie now. Especially with the way the environment is now.

4.) The Communist stuff. I don't think that would work now given that the Cold War is over.

    Also, in general, Judy as a character makes sense for the 1970's/1980's, when women who were raised to be dutiful wives were getting out into the work environment and learning they could control their own destinies. I don't know if that message is as powerful now, because girls aren't raised to be stay-at-home housewives like they were back then. However, there are still girls like Judy who were raised to think that the most important thing is to look pretty, so I'd tweak the character backstory a bit. I'd make Judy an Instagram wannabee model, who goes through a bad breakup. (I don't think I'd kill off Judy's second husband here mainly because I think something like Private Benjamin would go for a PG-13 rating  now and his death scene is definitely very R.) She then decides to give the army a try after an army recruiter tells her about all the cool places she'll travel to. I also think the army recruiter would be a hot young dude instead of a middle-aged guy like Harry Dean Stanton was. Not because they're making him a love interest, mind you, but just because.

Edited by methodwriter85
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On 1/13/2018 at 10:39 AM, methodwriter85 said:

They never redeem Captain Lewis. I think a modern movie would have tried to make her more sympathetic, like what happens with Miranda and Andie at the end of The Devil Wears Prada. If the movie was made now, there would be a point in the movie where Captain Lewis admits she's actually fond of Judy, and she's proud of her. I expected it to happen, and it didn't and I was kind of shocked.

This didn't bother me because there are lines drawn.  Your superiors are not your friend/family.  There are (unfortunately) no shortage of jerks in the military and you tend to find more of them in charge of you than not.  "Redeeming"   Lewis , if anything, would not ring true.

 

On 1/13/2018 at 10:39 AM, methodwriter85 said:

The slut-shaming of P.J. Soles' character, who's discovered having sex with Craig T. Nielsen's character and publicly humiliated for it. It's seen as a funny comeuppance for her because she's...not very friendly to Judy? Kind of a brown-noser to Captain Lewis?

My father used to tell me how the men in the barracks would give "blanket parties" for the guy who cost the others their weekend passes.  Women are far more devious in their quest for revenge.

On 1/13/2018 at 10:39 AM, methodwriter85 said:

Judy gets sexually assaulted by her commanding officer, and she uses that to blackmail him into giving her a better post assignment. It's also played for laughs. Like, no way in hell would that be accepted in a movie now. Especially with the way the environment is now.

True - although even in 1980 Judy could have reported the incident.  Today no one would doubt her story and her attacker would be punished - or transferred.  Of course, if they want to do a twist, how about a woman who lies about being assaulted?   Heaven knows that happens too in military and civilian life. (J'accuse!!)

On 1/13/2018 at 10:39 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I'd make Judy an Instagram wannabee model, who goes through a bad breakup. (I don't think I'd kill off Judy's second husband here mainly because I think something like Private Benjamin would go for a PG-13 rating  now and his death scene is definitely very R.) She then decides to give the army a try after an army recruiter tells her about all the cool places she'll travel to.

Don't think this would work because people travel more than they did in decades past so one doesn't have to join the military to "see the world".  Plus she'd probably muster out before basic training was over.  

 

What might be more interesting would be seeing the cliquishness that happens in the upper ranks of the military.  You'd be surprised how much like HS it can be - you don't get that deserved promotion because you (or your spouse) aren't likely to "fit in" with their group.    

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1 hour ago, magicdog said:

This didn't bother me because there are lines drawn.  Your superiors are not your friend/family.  There are (unfortunately) no shortage of jerks in the military and you tend to find more of them in charge of you than not.  "Redeeming"   Lewis , if anything, would not ring true.

Right, but I think that would totally happen if you tried to make the movie now.

Maybe Judy is a vlogger who goes to a recruiting office to make a video and then really buys into the idea of togetherness and finding a purpose? And then it basically plays out like Mean Girls: Military.

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20 hours ago, magicdog said:

True - although even in 1980 Judy could have reported the incident.  Today no one would doubt her story and her attacker would be punished - or transferred.  Of course, if they want to do a twist, how about a woman who lies about being assaulted?   Heaven knows that happens too in military and civilian life. (J'accuse!!)

That might be a bit of an overstatement.

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If you think it's an overstatement that no one would doubt a rape accusation [in today's current climate], I must respectfully disagree.  All it takes to ruin a career and/or a reputation is a report (even if it turns out to be unsubstantiated) to lose everything one worked for.

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1 minute ago, magicdog said:

If you think it's an overstatement that no one would doubt a rape accusation [in today's current climate], I must respectfully disagree.  All it takes to ruin a career and/or a reputation is a report (even if it turns out to be unsubstantiated) to lose everything one worked for.

For a celebrity, in public, maybe. For the average workplace or the rank & file of the army, no.

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5 hours ago, magicdog said:

If you think it's an overstatement that no one would doubt a rape accusation [in today's current climate], I must respectfully disagree.  All it takes to ruin a career and/or a reputation is a report (even if it turns out to be unsubstantiated) to lose everything one worked for.

I highly recommend Twitter any time a new allegation comes out.  It's not uncommon to see both opinions being expressed and yes, there are plenty of doubters. .  There already have been rape accusations that are just vanishing in the wind.  So far, the people facing consequences are mostly people with multiple accusers.

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On 1/14/2018 at 3:34 PM, magicdog said:

Today no one would doubt her story and her attacker would be punished - or transferred.  

This is not the case. Senator  Kirsten Gillibrand has devoted years to reforming how the military handles sexual abuse cases and there has be little progress.

Quote

“After reviewing yet another year’s worth of sexual assault case files at four of the biggest military bases in the country, I was appalled to see that sexual assault in our military is still as pervasive as ever: levels of civilian survivors remain high, overall prosecution rates of military sexual assault cases remain flat, and my office received no retaliation cases from the DoD despite six out of 10 survivors reporting that they had been retaliated against last year,” 

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I watched one of my all-time favorites, Jumping Jack Flash yesterday. There is a lot that makes me cringe, especially the scene where the security guy watches the cameras in the women's washroom, zooming in on a woman dressing being played for laughs.

What also wouldn't exist now is Terry trying to figure out the lyrics of Jumping Jack Flash from a cassette tape. I love the whole sequence but, well, today, you just google it.

And that wig she wears at the ball at the consulate, well that never worked, not then, not now.

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On 4/22/2018 at 1:00 PM, raezen said:

Pissed me off enough seeing it in the trailer that I've never once watched Bruce Almighty.

It's weird looking at stuff that came out only a decade to a decade and a half ago and realizing how much things have changed even since then.

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I watched Mrs. Doubtfire with the kids yesterday, funny that this is the movie that kicks off this thread.
I wonder if it would even get made today.  There are a few lines that come off as transphobic and of course, there's the whole we have the Internet today thing and the mom would instantly do a search of her new nanny's background. I had totally forgotten about the conversation at the end between Mrs. Doubtfire and Pierce Brosnan's character, where Mrs. Doubtfire is rattling off all these euphemisms for sex and then says he might not be able to compete with her vibrator (!!!). Glad that all went over the kids's heads.

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12 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I watched Mrs. Doubtfire with the kids yesterday, funny that this is the movie that kicks off this thread.
I wonder if it would even get made today.  There are a few lines that come off as transphobic and of course, there's the whole we have the Internet today thing and the mom would instantly do a search of her new nanny's background.

The term "hermaphrodite" was bleeped in the Logo airing of this movie, which is where I thought, "Oh yeah, that's now considered an outdated and offensive term." And yeah, there are some pretty transphobic lines throughout the movie. That's what made me kick off this thread.

The cross-dressing comedy gene seems to have died for the most part in the United States. It still occurs (Zac Efron wearing a dress in Baywatch) but it's not the entire focus of the movie, like in Tootsie, Just One of the Guys, Mrs. Doubtfire, etc etc. I feel like with the exception of mid-budget movies like Tootsie and Doubtfire, most of those crossdressing comedies from the 80's and 90's were basically direct-to-video type stuff and that market basically died with streaming.

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Same with Some Like It Hot.  It's so outdated I don't even consider it that offensive.  It's just not funny anymore.

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3 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Same with Some Like It Hot.  It's so outdated I don't even consider it that offensive.  It's just not funny anymore.

Of course, Some Like It Hot was set in the 1920's but yeah.

Honestly, I think most of the humor was from the idea of seeing a hearthrob like Tony Perkins and a big strapping comedian like Jack Lemmon in drag around a beautiful woman for the contrast. It's aged pretty horribly.

That kind of humor just doesn't seem to translate well now.

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11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Of course, Some Like It Hot was set in the 1920's but yeah.

Honestly, I think most of the humor was from the idea of seeing a hearthrob like Tony Perkins and a big strapping comedian like Jack Lemmon in drag around a beautiful woman for the contrast. It's aged pretty horribly.

That kind of humor just doesn't seem to translate well now.

Tony Curtis, Anthony Perkins played Norman Bates in Psycho

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On 4/24/2018 at 4:16 AM, methodwriter85 said:

It's weird looking at stuff that came out only a decade to a decade and a half ago and realizing how much things have changed even since then.

It may have more to do with how we acknowledge publicly that things make us uncomfortable. There are many movies from the 90s that I didn't like (fratboy "humour", bodily functions, casual objectifying of women, etc.) that were huge box office draws. I was scratching my head at the time, thinking I was the only one who did not find those funny.  

17 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Same with Some Like It Hot.  It's so outdated I don't even consider it that offensive.  It's just not funny anymore.

True for the main plot, but it's still a good watch for Marilyn Monroe's performance. But I see it as a bittersweet movie, not as a comedy.

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On 8/19/2018 at 11:33 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Mr. Mom wouldn’t translate well in today’s culture.

Except that was basically the plot of The Incredibles 2...

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I was reminded of this when posting about Soapdish, a movie I otherwise really like, where we get the final act reveal that the bad guy is a trans woman.  It's uncomfortable, but not quite as tasteless as the same "joke" in Ace Ventura.

Neither would happen today, thank goodness.

And you couldn't remake Soapdish, since there are very few soaps left on the air.

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On 8/25/2018 at 1:24 PM, starri said:

And you couldn't remake Soapdish, since there are very few soaps left on the air.

You might, just in the context of prime time soaps, or even online soaps. 

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There's shows like Gossip Girl and Dynasty (the remake) to reference, both on Netflix, but yeah, even Gossip Girl is not a current reference anymore.  I grew up with Days of our Lives and it's a miracle to me it's still going.  The kids today who watch "Friends" on Netflix would understand what that is, even if they haven't seen DOOL.  I've met people around the age of 20 who are starting to get into Friends these days.

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A bigger issue may be that Sally Field was more or less playing a fictional version of Susan Lucci.  There's never been a soap actor before or since that seeped into the public consciousness like Susan did.

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I loved the movie Soapdish, personally, and I was very young and ignorant of Susan Lucci.  I think Sally's performance is great and I think the movie works well regardless of the reference.

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On 8/31/2018 at 6:00 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

There's shows like Gossip Girl and Dynasty (the remake) to reference, both on Netflix, but yeah, even Gossip Girl is not a current reference anymore.  I grew up with Days of our Lives and it's a miracle to me it's still going.  The kids today who watch "Friends" on Netflix would understand what that is, even if they haven't seen DOOL.  I've met people around the age of 20 who are starting to get into Friends these days.

I got hooked on Days in the 90s during the summer of 1993 when I was a teenager and I still remember the crazy plotlines. Recently I was watching some episodes of the early 70s supernatural show "Night Gallery" from Rod Serling and went "Vivian!" when I saw Louise Sorel was in the episode "Dead Man"!

12646cb52b570481fc3415d10b5f8bae.jpg

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On 8/25/2018 at 1:24 PM, starri said:

I was reminded of this when posting about Soapdish, a movie I otherwise really like, where we get the final act reveal that the bad guy is a trans woman.  It's uncomfortable, but not quite as tasteless as the same "joke" in Ace Ventura.

Neither would happen today, thank goodness.

And you couldn't remake Soapdish, since there are very few soaps left on the air.

You sure as hell can't do Silence of the Lambs and keep the Buffalo Bill part intact. I can't see a transgender villain going down well today. It'd get skewered in the media. Pretty Little Liars did it three years ago and caught a lot of flack, although the show was nearing the last bit of seasons and I think it got away with it in the end for that reason. Also, even compared to 2015 things have changed a lot.

The Zoolander 2 sequel also ran into some problems because they decided to make it a running gag to have Benedict Cumberbatch play an androgynous character with "It's Pat!" jokes running throughout. Nobody would have batted an eye if they had done that back in 2001 in the original movie, but yeah, things changed.

Edited by methodwriter85
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5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

You sure as hell can't do Silence of the Lambs and keep the Buffalo Bill part intact. I can't see a transgender villain going down well today. It'd get skewered in the media

I'm surprised the Hannibal series was able to thread the needle, but I think a lot of it was due to them leaning into the homoeroticism.  I think Harris would have trouble getting his novels published these days, because a lot his writing is homo-/transphobic AF.  The actual Hannibal novel is even worse.

SotL is a phenomenal movie, but one does need to grit his/her teeth to get through those parts.

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15 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

You sure as hell can't do Silence of the Lambs and keep the Buffalo Bill part intact. I can't see a transgender villain going down well today.

 

 

9 hours ago, starri said:

I'm surprised the Hannibal series was able to thread the needle, but I think a lot of it was due to them leaning into the homoeroticism.  I think Harris would have trouble getting his novels published these days, because a lot his writing is homo-/transphobic AF.  The actual Hannibal novel is even worse.

But, I thought the whole clue to the case in SOTL was that he wasn't transgender and that's one of the ways they were able to narrow down their search:

Clarice Starling: There's no correlation in the literature between transsexualism and violence. Transsexuals are very passive.

Hannibal Lecter: ...Billy is not a real transsexual. There are three major centers for transsexual surgery... I wouldn't be surprised if Billy had applied for sex reassignment at one or all of them and been rejected... Billy hates his own identity you see, and he thinks that makes him a transsexual.

Hannibal Lecter: Look for severe childhood disturbances associated with violence. Our Billy wasn't born a criminal, Clarice. He was made one through years of systematic abuse. Billy hates his own identity, you see, and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But his pathology is a thousand times more savage and more terrifying.

Edited by Shannon L.
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57 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

But, I thought the whole clue to the case in SOTL was that he wasn't transgendered and that's one of the ways they were able to narrow down their search:

True, but I think that point is too subtle for a lot of the general audience and also for the traditional Twitter outrage machine.  And even beyond that, even if Bill isn't actually trans ("transgender," not 'transgendered" BTW) I think that's a bit of a distinction without a difference.

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In Blake Edward's 1991 farce Switch a sexist womanizer is killed and God(goaded by the devil) decide to bring him back as a beautiful woman(Ellen Barkin) to teach him a lesson. Rest of the synopsis here. Suffice it to say if Jimmy Smits(who did not know Amanda is really his best friend) did take advantage of her when she was drunk, why is it okay their child is being raised by him after Amanda dies during childbirth?

In 2007 there was an Argentina comedy telenovella called "Lalola" and it's like the producers saw "Switch" and thought Edwards chickened out! In "Lalola" the disgruntled ex-girlfriend of the protagonist, macho ladies man "Lalo" she pays a witch to curse him and he wakes up one morning in a beautiful woman's body. In the course of the 150 episodes, he learns how hard it is to be a woman and all the sexism they deal with in the workplace. He also falls in love with a male co-worker, a hunky nice guy raising a young daughter by himself!

Trailer:

It was popular and remade in many countries. There was a pilot made for an American version called "Eva Adams" starring Rhea Seehorn(who's now on Better Caul Saul) and James Van Der Beek but wasn't picked up. I think a man basically becoming gay, even in a woman's body is still too much for the States. A successful American version would have the man-in-a-woman's body fall in love with a woman and be a lesbian. It would have appeased Christians(cuz it's still technically a man) and LGBTs because you would have seen two women onscreen together.

Edited by VCRTracking
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I was having a discussion about One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest yesterday.  I have many, many, many issues with this film but even if they only changed one thing to get it remade today it would have to be that the reason for McMurphy's arrest/imprisonment was statutory rape.  There is no way he'd been seen as a sympathetic figure today with that on his most recent record. 

Edited by kiddo82

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4 hours ago, starri said:

True, but I think that point is too subtle for a lot of the general audience and also for the traditional Twitter outrage machine.  And even beyond that, even if Bill isn't actually trans ("transgender," not 'transgendered" BTW) I think that's a bit of a distinction without a difference.

Sorry about that.  I'll go back and fix it.

Sad to think that it would be too subtle today, especially considering that the lead in is Clarice specifically stating that transsexuals are very passive.  Sounds like the Hannibal series was able to make it work, though.  That's good.

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15 hours ago, starri said:

True, but I think that point is too subtle for a lot of the general audience and also for the traditional Twitter outrage machine.  And even beyond that, even if Bill isn't actually trans ("transgender," not 'transgendered" BTW) I think that's a bit of a distinction without a difference.

I honestly think that if you tried to add in that exchange in a modern adaption, it would get decried as transphobic gatekeeping. Saying someone just thinks they're transgender without actually being transgender is considered equal to saying that someone just thinks they're gay without really being gay. The mods over at the "I Am Jazz" threads have been pretty clear in this regard to the speculation that Jazz Jennings isn't really transgender but has been pushed into it by the mom who wanted another daughter.

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I cant imagine Wedding Crashers, or a lot of the early-mid 00s "Frat Pack" movies being made now, or if they were made, there would be some definite tweaks. I cant imagine a movie where two guys lie to (often drunk) women to get them to have sex with them would fly as a comedy, even if they do kind of learn a lesson. I loved that movie in high school, and I still think a lot of its hilarious (Will Ferrells cameo, Bradley Cooper as the most evil romantic rivals in comedy), but the very premise is something that I think a lot of people would complain about. And thats not even counting the gay jokes, and Isla Fisher raping Vince Vaughn and the whole thing being played for laughs, there is just a lot of early to mid 00s cringe in there. 

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22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I cant imagine Wedding Crashers, or a lot of the early-mid 00s "Frat Pack" movies being made now, or if they were made, there would be some definite tweaks. I cant imagine a movie where two guys lie to (often drunk) women to get them to have sex with them would fly as a comedy, even if they do kind of learn a lesson. I loved that movie in high school, and I still think a lot of its hilarious (Will Ferrells cameo, Bradley Cooper as the most evil romantic rivals in comedy), but the very premise is something that I think a lot of people would complain about. And thats not even counting the gay jokes, and Isla Fisher raping Vince Vaughn and the whole thing being played for laughs, there is just a lot of early to mid 00s cringe in there. 

Some of the politics of that movie are so disgusting, which really saddens me, because Vince and Owen are just so gorgeous and charming and funny in it.  The DVD commentary of them just bantering with each other is also adorable.

The way they treat Isla and Rachel's brother in the film is really strange and homophobic.  He's gay, so of course he'd attempt to rape Vince's character?  Ummmmmmm NO.

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And didn't Isla's character basically rape Vince's character and it was played for laughs?  Although, while I'd love to believe we've become more sensitive to the fact that men can be sexually assaulted too and therefore it's not really a laugh riot, who am I kidding? 

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Not that they even got away with it in 1986 (both Howell and Chong received a lot of flak over this), but damn, I can't even imagine this getting greenlight now.

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I was watching a movie that plays "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" from Sound of Music in a scene.

In hindsight, that song is kind of creepy.

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5 hours ago, starri said:

I was watching a movie that plays "Sixteen Going on Seventeen" from Sound of Music in a scene.

In hindsight, that song is kind of creepy.

Well, stalker-wise, I guess I could see it, but it explicitly says in the lyrics that the boy is 17 and the girl is 16, so age-wise, not at all.

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I always thought Sixteen Going on Seventeen was designed to make the audience roll their eyes at him because he’s acting like a “know it all” and is still a kid himself.  I thought it was mocking paternalism.  

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I really don't think you could make either Flashdance or Pretty Women now in the Me Too era. In the former, an 18-year old girl who works as a stripper who embarks on a relationship with the 30-something boss of a plant that she also works at isn't going to do down well. In the latter, I can see it being decried as a glorification of sex work.

I'm half/half on if I think Never Been Kissed could be done now. On one hand, it's kind of icky that he thinks she's really a student. On the other hand, Pretty Little Liars was pretty recent and it treated the teacher/actual 16-year old student as a beautiful love story complete with marriage bells at the end, so...maybe? It might still get a pass because she's really a 25-year old.

J. Lo's The Resume is kind of addressing the whole social media/internet presence question in fake identity movies by also mocking those up.

I guess a Mrs. Doubtfire movie could also do that. They'd also have to do with for Josie in a modern Never Been Kissed movie. It would be absolutely strange for a 17-year old girl not to have a social media profile, especially one trying to be popular.

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