S01.E08: It Still Fits Bitch

[formerlyfreedom]

Letty Raines reverses roles with her mother when she has to bail Estelle out of jail, raising the question of who is better able to raise Jacob. Meanwhile, Jacob's birth father, Sean, shows up uninvited to a major family event.

 

[NorthstarATL]

I cannot believe that I actually kind of like Estelle now. It took this long, and she still is not 'redeemed", but I find her more tragically flawed than villainous now. I sort of wish race didn't enter into the Solomon's Choice thing with Jacob, as there is a viable argument for a boy of his age bonding with a father, regardless of race. But, in Jacob's case, he's actually blacker than either parent, so race does obviously enter into his treatment and the dilemma of where he "belongs". There's a case to be made that in his current environment he is 'special" just as much as "other", and that in his father's world he may need more than color to fit in. But I assume that a court, given both parents' pasts, would at least have Jacob spend part of his time with the Dad. Also, there's the fact that Letty treats Jacob like a possession. The little tug-of-war she and the father had with Jacob showed very little concern over Jacob and his well-being at all. I think Javier showed more concern. Of course, Javier might have to kill the guy now.

  I wonder if MY mother was lying about not knowing who my farther was?

Oh, I almost forgot, because it happened in the beginning, but Letty probably destroyed that waitress' life by stealing all that cash under HER number! I know killing is worse, but she can come down off her high horse when comparing what she and Javier do any time now.

Edited December 28, 2016 by NorthstarATL
Forgot something

[surfer]

"Oh my god. I just realized. You're gonna be my stepdaughter."

Never change Rob.

[gibasi]

37 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

 

Oh, I almost forgot, because it happened in the beginning, but Letty probably destroyed that waitress' life by stealing all that cash under HER number! I know killing is worse, but she can come down off her high horse when comparing what she and Javier do any time now.

Since Letty took the money underneath the tray her theft would not be immediately found out so I was thinking it wouldn't necessarily be connected to the waitress but now realize of course it would.  And yeah that stinks. 

Neither Letty nor Sean is behaving at all with Any concern for Jacob. Have we met Tiffany's daughter Autumn who told Jacob who his father was?  The poor kid naturally is resentful that both his mom and Nana kept his father's identity from him.  It is a wonder he hasn't acted out before now. 

I love all the complexity in the relationship between Letty and Estelle. So true and not portrayed as a simple right and wrong to anything. 

[Glade]

I keep thinking that the reason we heard Letty's mother tell that story about when she got her tubes tied was because the math doesn't make sense (i.e. Letty was born afterwards)--what if Letty was really adopted but has been lied to about it her whole life?  Like what they did to Jacob with his father.  I don't trust Letty's mother, no matter how much they're progressing in their relationship, not at all, and I'm still waiting for the axe in the background to fall. 

I'm glad at least Letty seemed to understand the existance of bisexuality, even if Tiffany didn't.

[magdalene]

I kinda really like Rob, he of the fake penis. Even Estelle I am fond of now.  Those were the perfect wedding vows for them.  And Kyle and Tiffany,  I hope these crazy kids can learn to deal with Kyle's bi-sexuality (I am assuming). 

I ate all the Javier/Letty stuff up with a big shipper spoon.  It's amazing how much I love this bird killer/hitman and him and Letty together.

I didn't take to Sean at all - the role he played in Letty's life doesn't inspire confidence( for all his claims to have changed) and that was a shitty thing to do to crash the wedding and manipulate the needy feelings of a young boy, but I don't want him dead.

Oh, Letty, don't ask Javier to kill Jacob's father, it's not good for you, it's not good for Javier who's already fucked up enough about the killing in his life, and it's not good for your relationship with Javier.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

OK.  I know Choo Choo Charlie was an engineer.  But, who the heck were Mike and Ike?

The restraining order is lifted.  Big whoop.  Letty is in major violation of her parole.  Hugely.  There is no chance she would even allow herself to be served at this point.  But, it's TV.  

I can accept that Javier could scare off Daddio, though.  

Playing the race card infuriates me.  However, I have zero issue with it being introduced in the story.  Score another point for the series going to very dark places (NO pun intended).

Javier being sloppy with taking the Harley is the type of thing that would end Javier.  I thoroughly enjoyed Rob's telling of the insanity!  But, I wish the writers would quickly get us back to the professionally careful Javier.  Yesterday.

[zxy556575]

13 hours ago, surfer said:

Never change Rob.

You be you!

The actor is doing a terrific job making him more than a redneck stereotype. (Also, he's 40 IRL, which surprised me.)

Edited December 28, 2016 by lordonia

[The Solution]

Quote

Nobody likes a sad hit man.

[Nanu160]

Yes! I insist on a JOLLY hitman.

[attica]

It reveals all you need to know about me that I am most upset because there is no comma in the episode title. (And I don't mean the thread title here; there is no comma in the show's listing, either.) Appositive lives matter! ;)

I was pretty moved by the pedicure scene. I'm betting it was intentional to have Estelle kneeling before Letty, ministering to her feet in that halo of light. Where two such flawed women could both find some humility and empathy for each other. And then in the bathroom sharing lipstick. "Usually a threesome means you have to eat pussy." "[Sigh] I know, right?" So, so good.

Kudos to the sound effects folks who put the crunch in that poor fake-bird's neck. I'm still cringing.

Great work by Dockery when Javier came back from the party. The apprehension, fear, attempt at bravado, and then relaxation, acceptance, lust, and love that crossed her face in the pre-coital embrace was a master class.

[Joimiaroxeu]

"Nobody likes a sad hit man." Truer words...

Javier is so fcuking hot. But yikes, I hope that bird was already critically injured when Javier snapped its neck. Poor guy must be jonesing to do some hit man work since it's been a while.

Estelle has had some work done on her face. The cheeks and chin seemed a lot more prominent to me in this episode.

It looks like they only introduced Jacob's dad so Javier can kill him. I'm okay with that.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[slf]

Rob: "I just realized...I'm gonna be your stepdad." Letty: O_o

"I'll be right back. Please don't kill yourself."

This show has such a great sense of humor and the cast always delivers. I kind of love Rob; he's such a harmless, sweet guy who genuinely loves Estelle and thinks his new friend Javier is a badass. His glee when he told the story about the Harley was priceless (as was Estelle's clapping).

"Either you're gay or you're straight." Oh, Tiffany.

12 hours ago, Glade said:

I keep thinking that the reason we heard Letty's mother tell that story about when she got her tubes tied was because the math doesn't make sense (i.e. Letty was born afterwards)--what if Letty was really adopted but has been lied to about it her whole life?

I read an interview with Lusia Strus, the actress that plays Estelle, and she said that Estelle and Letty are only fifteen years apart. So Estelle was 15 when she had her daughter, then got her tubes tied at 19. 

[magdalene]

No Christian for the second episode in a row. This particular time bomb to explode in the season finale?

I think the the bird was probably injured, how else was Javier able to touch it in the first place.  I don't know what it says about me but the killing of the bird upset me more than any of Javier's human killings.  Which is kind of silly considering lots of chickens get killed every day in this manner, and then we eat them.

[WInterfalls]

I really loved the tension on Letty's face as Rob told the Harley story.  Rob and Estelle are like oh what a funny story and Letty is just like please don't have killed anyone.  Javier in the background just looks bored by it all. 

I wonder if Sean did more than get Letty hooked on drugs.  Her reaction to me was more that of rape victim than someone who just thought he was a bad influence.  I wonder if perhaps he raped her or since they said he was a porn producer had her raped for a movie. It just looked to me like there was a lot of fear there.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I think the the bird was probably injured, how else was Javier able to touch it in the first place.  I don't know what it says about me but the killing of the bird upset me more than any of Javier's human killings.  Which is kind of silly considering lots of chickens get killed every day in this manner, and then we eat them.

I wasn't paying enough attention to see what kind of bird it was but if it was a pigeon I'm fine with Javier snapping its neck. The ones around my area will stand in the middle of the street and stare you down while several thousand pounds of steel is heading right at them. You pretty much have to swerve around them because they will not move (and who knows what kind of damage bird guts and feathers would do to your car's engine and such). I'd hire Javier to kill them all.

[formerlyfreedom]

When I lived and worked in Chicago, I was walking down the street in an area that had a heavily Asian population. A sweet looking woman grabbed a pigeon on the sidewalk, snapped it's neck, and carried it away. I have never recovered from that.

Letty and Javier were so hot in this episode. That scene when he came back on the motorcycle (except we didn't know it)...WOW.

Man, I love this show so much. PLEASE, TNT, renew it!

[NorthstarATL]

6 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

I wonder if Sean did more than get Letty hooked on drugs.  Her reaction to me was more that of rape victim than someone who just thought he was a bad influence.  I wonder if perhaps he raped her or since they said he was a porn producer had her raped for a movie. It just looked to me like there was a lot of fear there.  

If she feels that he destroyed her life and her free will by getting her addicted to drugs, etc., that should be enough to illicit the major fear she was experiencing, especially as regards Jacob, because I doubt she would assume rape would be involved for him. Though how much another person can really force you to do anything as regards drugs, etc., is arguable. Blaming another person is pretty common among addicts, but Letty may have good reason that we don't know yet. Tiffany mentioned that she introduced Letty and Sean, and that Letty was "into black guys". I wonder if she wasn't maybe using Sean to rebel against Estelle? That seems a pretty common trope in stories based in the South. OTOH, you may be absolutely correct and there's some other trauma as well.

[Glade]

~slf, that's good to know about Lettie/Estelle's ages. 

-

I was also disturbed by Javier killing the bird.  Apparently it flew right into the glass window of their hotel room in the vague opening shot, and so was injured...but from my experience, if birds survive that, they are usually just stunned for a few minutes before they recover and fly away.  So I'm not sure why he felt the need to intervene by breaking the birds neck so quickly.

[helenamonster]

On 12/27/2016 at 10:19 PM, NorthstarATL said:

Oh, I almost forgot, because it happened in the beginning, but Letty probably destroyed that waitress' life by stealing all that cash under HER number! I know killing is worse, but she can come down off her high horse when comparing what she and Javier do any time now.

I was thinking the same thing. I have a weird fondness for Letty's disregard for other people but as a waitress myself this really stung.

I love Rob so much, and I love any kind of show that allows his type of character to be the most unsullied of the bunch.

Damn, that ending was fire. I was waiting for Letty's Jacob problems and Javier's career choice to dovetail. Really looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. Not sure how I feel about Sean yet. On the one hand I can understand Letty's issues with him (and why she's struggling to believe he's gone straight) and why she'd want Jacob away from him, but she is far from a model parent and definitely would not provide a safe home for Jacob. Hopefully we learn more about him before Javier potentially offs him.

[slf]

W/r/t Sean and Letty, and specifically what their past might've been:

"All I did was introduce you to Sean 'cause you like black guys. How was I supposed to know that he was gonna turn out to be some meth-head porn-star freak who was..."

Courtesy of Tiffany, who went on to say she didn't "feel guilty" about whatever happened. Addicts do like to blame others for their decision to do drugs, so it's entirely possible that's the source of Letty's (and Estelle's) hatred for Sean. Another possibility is that he either forced drugs on Letty or coaxed her into doing something that ultimately led to her seeking out drugs as self-medication. 

I'm glad the show isn't sweeping Jacob's race under the table. He is a black kid, the only black kid which must be hard enough, in a town full of "BUILD A WALL" racists. His grandmother and mother may love him very much but they can't provide him with everything he needs. It's thorny situation: Letty might've become involved with Sean because she fetishized black men and Sean may have abused Letty, and none of that changes the fact that Jacob has very real issues and needs that haven't even really been acknowledged by his family much less dealt with.

[TaraS1]

The exchange between Letty and Sean where he says he was a porn director and Letty specifically mentions "anal-centric porn," made me wonder if he has her doing something on film when she was high that he's going to blackmail her with when they go to court. 

And please forgive my shallow complaining, because I truly did adore every second of this episode, but why was that love scene so short?! These people are too hot and we have too few episodes left to be doling out 15 second sex scenes lol.

And are we to assume that was the first time they'd had sex since the hotel scene in episode two? Letty says the next morning that she's never having sex with him again, and even though we see them sharing a bed at the end of that episode and again at the beginning of this one (and can assume they shared one at Ava's hotel), the weight of this week's scene definitely felt like a really significant moment of (re)connection between them. 

In other news, Rob is the bomb dot com. Which I feel like is a phrase Rob would approve of and use himself. 

[thesupremediva1]

I had too many feelings about this episode to post immediately. I've rewatched twice and now feel I can say something coherent.

"Nobody likes a sad hitman." The cut from Javier putting on the sunglasses to the theme song was sheer perfection. I could watch that cut all day long.

"Who are you right now?" This is the type of line you usually hear during some petty spout between two people fighting over a boat or car purchase, or a wife who wants a boob job. I just adore how these two interact. This was a genuine question that came from a place of curiosity and caring. He's keeping her in the dark and she wants to be let in. There was so much honesty and vulnerability in those few moments.

Javier's return home was glorious. That scene felt like a Fincher film to me. And again, sweet Lord, Juan Diego Botto talking about how his father made him believe he was evil - just give the man an Emmy. Every facial expression was exquisite emotional torture. In a lesser show, Letty would have crawled on top of him and declared her undying love. Blech. Not here! I love that Letty just listened in the stillness and accepted with few words. She gave him space to share his story, which was all he needed. 

I really adored watching the two of them at the wedding. Javier had this wry little smile on his face the whole way through the vows, while Letty waited until the end to crack a smile. The dynamic is so easy with them, and that really extends to Jacob. I love how comfortable Javier is with Jacob - he's the only character not using that kid as a pawn or demanding some sort of emotional attachment from him. Kids pick up on that stuff.

Loved the first-time-story sharing hour during the dance, but geez that was some trite dialogue. It stood out like a sore thumb because the show usually avoids that so adeptly. 

Javier shoving Sean against the wall was one of those moments where I just lost my breath. JDB goes from sensitive to deadly in no time flat. I love how he then corralled Letty into calming the eff down so as not to cause a scene that would get them all arrested. 

I don't necessarily agree with Letty in her feelings toward Sean. I sympathize that she doesn't want to lose Jacob, but she barely knows the kid and she's treating him like a possession instead of a person. She's cavorting with a (perfectly wonderful) hitman, how does she think she can raise a child? This would be Estelle's battle to fight, since the restraining order was lifted so recently. 

If anyone should be able to understand that someone can change, it's Letty. I'm a little shocked that she is SO SURE Sean is still a meth-dealing POS, but I suppose she has to hold on to that belief to defeat the guy who's trying to take her son away for good. 

I had a feeling we'd eventually get around to Letty asking Javier for his services. I actually really hope he refuses. Javier clearly explained that, even when he stopped asking questions about whether someone deserved to die, he did his job because he knew the victims were toast anyway. This would be new territory where someone was going down simply because Javier was available to an injured party. Sean is in no danger of dying if Javier says no. I don't think Letty is going in search of a lesser hitman. She's desperate but I hope Javier's cooler head prevails.

I kind of adore how Javier is welcomed into Letty's messed up clan. They're a rag-tag bunch of misfits, but they'll accept just about anyone who demonstrates decency towards them. I doubt they'd excommunicate Javier even if they knew he was a hitman, and that warms my heart.

The note in next week's ep is already giving me too many feels.

Edited December 29, 2016 by thesupremediva1

[palmaire]

Aside from Letty wanting to get Sean out of the way, shouldn't Javier be getting another job offer soon? I'm interested in the nuts and bolts of how he runs his business -- how much he charges, how often he gets jobs, how clients get a hold of him, if he ever leaves the South, etc. We know he's fairly efficient at killing but crap at covering his tracks.

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

And are we to assume that was the first time they'd had sex since the hotel scene in episode two? Letty says the next morning that she's never having sex with him again, and even though we see them sharing a bed at the end of that episode and again at the beginning of this one (and can assume they shared one at Ava's hotel), the weight of this week's scene definitely felt like a really significant moment of (re)connection between them. 

I was under the impression that they were having sex ever since Letty called Javier and asked him to come get her.  There was that kiss Letty initiated and they had been traveling together and sharing bed rooms.  However, I think the sex stopped after the dinner party from hell drove Javier into a depressive funk, and making love in her mother's house was them re-connecting more intimately than ever.  Until the writers say otherwise that would be my guess.

[Nanu160]

Absolutely loved the Redneck wedding!

[TaraS1]

21 hours ago, magdalene said:

I was under the impression that they were having sex ever since Letty called Javier and asked him to come get her.  There was that kiss Letty initiated and they had been traveling together and sharing bed rooms.  However, I think the sex stopped after the dinner party from hell drove Javier into a depressive funk, and making love in her mother's house was them re-connecting more intimately than ever.  Until the writers say otherwise that would be my guess.

I think that's a much better guess than mine @magdalene! 

[gibasi]

And don't forget that Sean did not know he had a kid until Jacob called him.  If Sean really has turned his life around he is probably double mad thinking about Estelle raising Jacob when Sean could have been.

[Irlandesa]

On 12/29/2016 at 11:07 AM, TaraS1 said:

Are we to assume that was the first time they'd had sex since the hotel scene in episode two? Letty says the next morning that she's never having sex with him again, and even though we see them sharing a bed at the end of that episode and again at the beginning of this one (and can assume they shared one at Ava's hotel), the weight of this week's scene definitely felt like a really significant moment of (re)connection between them.

It was significant because he was coming to her out of need but  I think they've been having sex ever since she called him to pick her up.  Go back to watch the kiss she initiated at the drive-in.  The camera then pans out to the empty parking lot where we can see the car and a waitress bringing them food.  It's small but it really looked like the waitress got to the car, stopped and turned around without giving them their food.  The impression I got was that they were doing a lot more than kissing which is why the waitress turned around.

Quote

The exchange between Letty and Sean where he says he was a porn director and Letty specifically mentions "anal-centric porn," made me wonder if he has her doing something on film when she was high that he's going to blackmail her with when they go to court. 

While I know women often are seen with a more judgmental lense when it comes to sex but I don't think his position would be helped if he were the director of the said film. But Letty starring in the films is a good guess, especially after what her mother implies about Letty's sex life when Letty rolled her eyes at the idea that Rob and Estelle were sleeping together.

On 12/30/2016 at 8:31 PM, gibasi said:

And don't forget that Sean did not know he had a kid until Jacob called him.  If Sean really has turned his life around he is probably double mad thinking about Estelle raising Jacob when Sean could have been.

I'm a little surprised that Jacob was so into the idea of being raised by a stranger and Sean so into the idea of assuming a child he didn't know about for over ten years.  But I don't think Letty's fear of Sean had anything to do with him maybe raping her in the past.  Nor do I think her fear was from thinking he was still the same guy.  I think the absolute terror she expressed was because she was afraid that he might burst the little fantasy bubble she had created to justify her choices for 10 years by maybe actually having turned his life around.  And if that were the case, he holds the stronger position when it comes to custody.  Letty never told him that he was the father.  She likely has no idea what his life is like.  She blames him for introducing her to drugs which is fair but the choice to take them ultimately rests with her.  The choice to steal, which is what got her sent to prison, has absolutely nothing to do with him since she started young.  And the fact that her life is still messed up is a largely a choice she makes. She creates the facts of circumstances to justify her choices which means that the Sean of Hardbody Myrtle Beach must be the same Sean who was messed up ten years ago.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Irlandesa