S02.E08: Series 2 Episode 8

[Cranberry]

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The acclaimed drama concludes. In the aftermath of the Silo tragedy Karen feels she and Sam have no future and takes matters into her own hands. Niska and Astrid prepare to return to Berlin, but can Niska really walk away from her family? Joe leaves Laura shell-shocked with a frank admission. Hester seeks revenge and will stop at nothing to hurt Leo.

[beowoof]

No one has anything to say about this? I thought it was good. I was very happy that Mia, Leo, and Laura are still alive, and I'm glad Hester is dead since her psychopath ways were starting to get tiresome. Now that all synths are conscious, there will be a lot of new issues to cover in the next season. 

[John Potts]

Hadn't got round to seeing this until today - after losing Pete & Odi last week, I thought we might actually lose Mia & Leo this week (I wasn't surprised Hestor died - for a psychopath, death is pretty much inevitable - although oddly enough I was never frightened for Laura). Did think Hestor's horror movie "final scare" was a bit clichéd, but it made narrative sense (if the signal revived Mia it should revive Hestor too). Also liked the fact that Mattie thought really hard about releasing the "upgrade" worldwide which is usually something that the "hero" does unthinkingly - "If it saves X, I don't care about the consequences!" but even though Mattie is undoubtedly pro-Synth (and pro-Mia in particular) she still didn't do it without pause. And nice to see Niska completing her redemption arc - she came back to save Laura (I think), not her "own kind".

Also thought there was a fair amount of humour - loved the scene with Toby and his girlfriend critiquing other Synthies (which I could totally see contemporary teens doing) and I couldn't help Awwing over Karen and her new "kid" (which I guess answers the question that while she can' commit active suicide, she can do so passively - though I thought her coming round to save her "son" was a little cliché). Even Laura's conversation with Hestor was pretty poignant - I loved the fact that even after she realised that Hestor meant to kill her she kept arguing ("You're quoting Ghandi. He lost." "Ghandi died, he didn't lose" - absolutely right, given he attained independence and wasn't murdered by the British but his own people). and recognising that Hestor as a psychopath is in many ways too human.

Somewhat ho-hum over Athena in general, though I did like her finally coming to terms with her daughter's death and I'm not quite sure what Joe was saying (I can see him wanting a Synth free future and so choosing to live in a rural backwater, but as he saying he was moving there even if his family didn't? I thought him seeing family as the most important thing was pretty much his arc tis Season).

Still, can't deny it's DEFINITELY set things up for next Season!

[NorthstarATL]

Now that the holiday is done, I finally caught up on this! Loved the Synth Awakening at the end, and the fact that Mattie was the one to do it. Laura was right to be cautious, given her prior predicament, but Mia "died" saving her, and she, frankly, owed it to her. As much as Hester was flawed, Laura had already seen in the "trial" of Niska that transition was never going to be smooth.

  I don't think Athena was necessary to the series, but her conversation with her daughter's consciousness was a really nice way of demonstrating what some belief systems consider the afterlife, and how difficult it is for us to let go, even though we may be in fact limiting those we are losing.

[EmpressElle]

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Still, can't deny it's DEFINITELY set things up for next Season!

I got the idea that there won't be a next season.  The official description says the "...acclaimed drama concludes..."  and I don't know where another season could go except total dystopia.

Where are all these sentient synths going to go?  They need a place to live, they'll need jobs, they'll need a lower class to do the shit work of keeping them charged.  They'll have to enslave humans, or spread themselves across the working classes.  I guess the struggle amongst them as to how to handle their new lives could be fodder for a third season.

It will probably all depend on how much money AMC thinks it can make!

[John Potts]

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:04 PM, EmpressElle said:

I got the idea that there won't be a next season.  The official description says the "...acclaimed drama concludes..."  and I don't know where another season could go except total dystopia.

I don't see why. Change will be disruptive just like Reconstruction was in the USA, though at least there has been no Civil War in this scenario. Synths will presumably have to be paid for what they now do for nothing (and presumably Syntec will go bust if most of its assets have walked out the door), but change doesn't HAVE to be dystopic (if it is, it will be as much about how humans react to "Free Synths" as Synth terrorists like Hestor).

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:04 PM, EmpressElle said:

It will probably all depend on how much money AMC thinks it can make!

...though I totally agree on that!

[scrb]

Hester's response to being mistreated is to become murderous, even against those who should be her allies.

As Laura said, that is a human response.  Westworld hosts also become murderous but they band together, not turn against each other as Hester did.

There must have been something going on other than Hester doing manual labor in a factory.  Otherwise, all those other synths who were doing menial jobs, even being domestic servants, may go on the same paths as Hester.

Rather than awaken all the synths in the world, why couldn't they just replace the synth hardware in Mia and then reload the code?  It's unlikely that when synths are mass produced, they have unique hardware for their "minds" so the chips damaged by the Qualia chip should be replaceable.  For that matter, mass-produced synths may look alike, to drive down costs and make it more affordable for people.  Only the hand-built "bespoke" ones that Elster first made should be unique.

[scrb]

On 12/27/2016 at 0:04 PM, EmpressElle said:

I got the idea that there won't be a next season.  The official description says the "...acclaimed drama concludes..."  and I don't know where another season could go except total dystopia.

Where are all these sentient synths going to go?  They need a place to live, they'll need jobs, they'll need a lower class to do the shit work of keeping them charged.  They'll have to enslave humans, or spread themselves across the working classes.  I guess the struggle amongst them as to how to handle their new lives could be fodder for a third season.

It will probably all depend on how much money AMC thinks it can make!

I think the disruption would have first occurred when all these synths were mass produced and they were bought by consumers and deployed by businesses for all sorts of labor that humans wanted to be free of.

The series didn't really delve into the issue of synths displacing human workers from jobs.  Obviously Joe is a victim of it but they didn't make it a big part of the plot.  Instead, the family seems to have no great money worries.  In the opening credit montage, there is one headline about human workers losing jobs to synths.  Of course we're facing that now with factory jobs being lost to increasing automation.  Some of the proposals for dealing with this kind of disruption is to provide a universal basic income to everyone, as more and more people lose jobs to automation.

In this alternate world, there would have to be some accommodation of this kind or there would be a lot of social unrest about robots taking over more and more jobs.  Perhaps the synth workers are so much more productive that companies generate more profits, and hence more taxes, to compensate human workers who've lost jobs.

The synths would mainly need just power source, no food or other high costs like health care.  So they wouldn't need jobs per se, but they'd have to discover a purpose for living, which Odi failed to do.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 3:23 AM, scrb said:

 Westworld hosts also become murderous but they band together, not turn against each other as Hester did.

Actually there was that one in the bar massacre who shot everyone who had 'killed' him previously.

[thuganomics85]

Figured Hester was going to be a goner, but didn't predict it would be at Niska's hands.  Fitting since Hester had pretty said she thought Niska was "weak" after her "use to be strong" line, so getting taken out by her is a nice touch.  And Niska even gave her another chance, but she wouldn't take it.  She truly was broken.

Of course, she still managed to succeed in really fucking up Leo.  Niska said that he won't die, but it likely will screw up his brain, so I'm curious to see what will come out of this.

The Synths have been unleashed!  I understand Laura's concerns, but it was bound to happen one way or another.  Granted, for me, I agreed with it simply because it was the only way to save Mia, and for her/Gemma Chan, any sacrifice is worth it!

The Hawkins are at it again, since Joe apparently wants to move the family to one of those non-Synth places, but Laura disagrees.  That family can never agree on anything for too long, huh?

Not sure how significant Athena really ended up being to the story, but Carrie Ann-Moss was great as always.

Curious to see what will happen with Karen and the boy.

[CoderLady]

What was sad and creepy about what Karen was trying to do was that the person she was modeled on, Beatrice Elster, had died in a submerged car with her son Leo the way she was trying to do with Sam. I wonder if that was deliberate or just the best she could do under the circumstances. Before Pete died (sob! I loved Pete!) she had been planning to disappear under a new assumed identity but now no longer wanted to live after that. I do like that she changed her mind when she recognized that she was about to kill not just herself but a conscious, frightened little boy. A bit of Beatrice-redemption.

I'll miss Pete next series but I'm looking forward to seeing Karen continue to have relationships. She's managed to appear human and emotionally stable enough to work as a police detective, got into a loving sexual relationship with Pete, wants a child and wants to actually be human. None of the others have gone that far. And I wonder how much of Beatrice Elster's emotional torment drives her even now.

[Clanstarling]

On 12/27/2016 at 0:04 PM, EmpressElle said:

I got the idea that there won't be a next season.  The official description says the "...acclaimed drama concludes..."  and I don't know where another season could go except total dystopia.

This show reminds me of The 4400 - ever season finale had them pretty much up-ending the status quo. They (almost) always had interesting takes on how that impacted society. This show is a bit more thoughtful, so I'm guessing they could have more to say.

On 3/21/2017 at 1:23 AM, scrb said:

Rather than awaken all the synths in the world, why couldn't they just replace the synth hardware in Mia and then reload the code?  It's unlikely that when synths are mass produced, they have unique hardware for their "minds" so the chips damaged by the Qualia chip should be replaceable.  For that matter, mass-produced synths may look alike, to drive down costs and make it more affordable for people.  Only the hand-built "bespoke" ones that Elster first made should be unique.

They didn't have the time, for one. IIRC, it was two minutes at best before she was completely fried, with no hardware on hand. If you mean later - I don't think they have any of that available to them - hardware or software. They have the code Elster's synths could use to bring consciousness to others, but not their individual specific coding, which was, well, bespoke - creating specific emotional strengths for each of them.

On 3/28/2017 at 10:45 AM, CoderLady said:

What was sad and creepy about what Karen was trying to do was that the person she was modeled on, Beatrice Elster, had died in a submerged car with her son Leo the way she was trying to do with Sam. I wonder if that was deliberate or just the best she could do under the circumstances. Before Pete died (sob! I loved Pete!) she had been planning to disappear under a new assumed identity but now no longer wanted to live after that. I do like that she changed her mind when she recognized that she was about to kill not just herself but a conscious, frightened little boy. A bit of Beatrice-redemption.

I loved that call back. Elster made Karen to replace Beatrice, and clearly put some elements of her depressive personality. Though it seemed predictable that she would stop when the boy became conscious - if they'd gone darker, she could have continued with her baseline and repeated Beatrice's actions. But I loved that she didn't.

Also, douche billionaire actually looked happy when the "children" awoke. So maybe there's more to him that it looks like on the surface.

I liked that Athena finally understood that the synths were actually conscious - took a grief stricken synth to hammer that home to her, unfortunately. The parting with V was touching.

Ah Joe. Just when I start thinking you're maybe okay - then you threaten to split up because you want to hide your head in the sand. At least I could understand, if not agree with, his motivations. But he's a problematic one, that Joe.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Clanstarling

[WatchrTina]

On 12/23/2016 at 4:19 PM, John Potts said:

I'm not quite sure what Joe was saying (I can see him wanting a Synth free future and so choosing to live in a rural backwater, but as he saying he was moving there even if his family didn't?

Yep.  I thought he said something about the kids splitting their time between the two homes.  So I assume he's planning to separate from Laura so he can live in a synth-free community.  I ironic, isn't it?  I seem to recall that he was the one who brought Mia home in season one, against the wishes of his wife.  I also thought it was unrealistic that they could afford two homes given Joe's recent demotion and the fact that all of Laura's billable hours seemed to be eaten up with a hopeless pro-bono case.

On 3/21/2017 at 3:31 AM, scrb said:

The series didn't really delve into the issue of synths displacing human workers from jobs.  Obviously Joe is a victim of it but they didn't make it a big part of the plot.

They also never really addressed the fact that the decision to fire Joe seemed to have been made entirely by artificial intelligence communicating by e-mails and not by a human.  I gathered that that was a bit of a scandal and that's why they offered him a (lower-ranking) replacement job but no one ever really addressed HOW a bunch of AI-powered e-mail addresses were making firing decisions.  That was some Skynet-level skullduggery and yet we never heard anything more about that.

On 3/25/2017 at 2:01 AM, thuganomics85 said:

she still managed to succeed in really fucking up Leo.  Niska said that he won't die, but it likely will screw up his brain

Yeah, I want to be a fly on the wall when Leo arrives at the emergency room with cyborg-bits in his brain.  Other than putting his functional body on permanent life-support, what can they do?  The only person qualified to repair him was his father and he's dead.

On 3/28/2017 at 0:45 PM, CoderLady said:

What was sad and creepy about what Karen was trying to do was that the person she was modeled on, Beatrice Elster, had died in a submerged car with her son Leo the way she was trying to do with Sam.

Oooooh, I had forgotten that.  Nice catch.

This show feels like it's over but if so, they sure went to a lot of effort to save the lead (Mia).  That suggests that they are planning another season.  My guess is that there will have to be a big leap forward in time and we'll spend the first episode of season 3 learning how society has reacted and adjusted to the "awakening" of their slave-class.

ETA:  The last scene shows a traffic jam forming presumably due to newly-awakened cab drivers and bus drivers and ambulance drivers abandoned their posts.  I saw Mia take something out of the ambulance and go to Leo's body but seriously -- without their being able to get him to a hospital quickly, it seems completely unlikely that Leo's brain is going to survive.

Edited April 2, 2017 by WatchrTina

[lidarose9]

Belatedly watching... Well, to me, that episode had all the hallmarks of a Series Finale, one where they find out the show isn't being renewed at the last moment and have to do their best to wrap up all the storylines in the last 2 episodes. But apparently I am wrong, because wikipedia says:  "A third series was commissioned in March 2017 and is set to premiere in 2018." I thought it felt awkwardly compressed. Why did Joe have to take Sophie to the birthday party? Why did we even bring Odi back to life? Why drop Joe's storyline about losing his job to a synth conspiracy? Why did we even have the Carrie Ann Moss storyline at all? So we could have a mad genius geeky uber-capitalist schmuck to use as a villain? Why can Mattie write code that the world's experts can't? When Laura and Hester talked about how shitty it is to have feelings, it was just a rehash of the relationship between Niska and William Hurt last season. Hester was just Niska 2.0. I feel like this show relies too much on tired tropes -- and it bit off more than it could chew, had too many storylines to develop characters adequately or up the ante in conflict. I like this show, but it takes the easy way out. 

[BakerStreet]

Humans is getting a 3rd season.

[Clanstarling]

Yay!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Man, if Joe already wanted to move to a synth free town, he is REALLY going to want to go there now that all of the synths are conscious! Having all of the synths become conscious at the same time reminded me of the series finale of Buffy.

And, like Buffy, the fate of the world was put into the hands of a teenager (I mean the early years of Buffy when she was still in high school). Poor Mattie was put in a position that she knew could be life changing for the thousands of existing synths (is that correct? I have no idea how many synths actually exist in the world) as well as all the humans on the planet. I think that if the choice had come up at the end of S1 or the beginning of S2, she would have leaned more quickly towards pushing the button because the conscious synths she knew were good. But after dealing with Hester, she had to hesitate knowing that some of the other synths could be angry/murdering/psychopaths.

Plotwise, it was just a matter of time before the other synths were made conscious so I'm okay with it happening in order to save Mia. Even though she didn't have the most compelling storyline this season, I would hate to have her gone from the show.

Even though Leo says he has always identified with his synth siblings, his decision to try to get through to Hester was very human. And he got stabbed for all his efforts!