Star Trek: Enterprise - General Discussion

[Meushell]

I think it pretty much is "Star Trek: Enterprise" now. I don't think I would have even thought to look for it under E for Enterprise.

I'm rewatching the series at the moment. Current in season 2, and I'll be in season 3 soon. Season 3 was, imo, when the show really started.

[Pippin]

Meushell, there were some good individual episodes in Seasons 1 and 2 but season 3 was when they decided to try an over-arcing story line.  I didn't care for everything they did (hated what they did to T'Pol's character and I am not a Trip/T'Pol-er at all), but it was a good effort, although of course the echoes of 9/11 were everywhere.  (Couldn't be helped; was part of the zeitgiest). 

I thought that the mini-arcs in Season 4 (always excepting The Abomination That Shall Not Be Named And Is Not Real Anyhow Because It Is Just A $#!! Hologram) were more successful and entertaining.

I've got the DVDs and Hulu and Netflix both have ST:Enterprise.  I haven't watched it yet, simply because I think I'll get annoyed by the series premature cancellation and start writing Les Moonves nasty letters.

Yes, I can hold a grudge that long.  I think I'm part Klingon.  Or cat.  I'm not sure which.

[CoderLady]

I really wanted this show to be a genuine prequel where there would be lots of stories about the origins of stuff established and long taken for granted in the later series. Instead it immediately put politics front and center, with tired generic spy plots and untrustworthy allies at the expense of developing what was probably too many core characters and their relationships. And the damn ship was way too advanced for a pre-TOS Enterprise.

I wasn't looking for anything like TOS, because that show was way too simplistic, but I was disappointed that there wasn't more exploration and discovery. I admit I checked out and didn't come back after the end of the second season, but I followed the discussions in the TWoP forums and it looked like things just continued to get worse and worse. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

I hated the theme song. Never got used to it.

[Kromm]

I really wanted this show to be a genuine prequel where there would be lots of stories about the origins of stuff established and long taken for granted in the later series. Instead it immediately put politics front and center, with tired generic spy plots and untrustworthy allies at the expense of developing what was probably too many core characters and their relationships. And the damn ship was way too advanced for a pre-TOS Enterprise.

I wasn't looking for anything like TOS, because that show was way too simplistic, but I was disappointed that there wasn't more exploration and discovery. I admit I checked out and didn't come back after the end of the second season, but I followed the discussions in the TWoP forums and it looked like things just continued to get worse and worse. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

I hated the theme song. Never got used to it.

What was supposed to be the theme song originally was okay.

Dummied up credits featuring the song and what one person thought it might have looked like if they'd used it:

[CoderLady]

Kromm, that was excellent! I wish they'd used it.

[FormerMod-a1]

I really wanted this show to be a genuine prequel where there would be lots of stories about the origins of stuff established and long taken for granted in the later series. Instead it immediately put politics front and center, with tired generic spy plots and untrustworthy allies at the expense of developing what was probably too many core characters and their relationships. And the damn ship was way too advanced for a pre-TOS Enterprise.

I wasn't looking for anything like TOS, because that show was way too simplistic, but I was disappointed that there wasn't more exploration and discovery. I admit I checked out and didn't come back after the end of the second season, but I followed the discussions in the TWoP forums and it looked like things just continued to get worse and worse. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.

I hated the theme song. Never got used to it.

I agree with all this.  I had such high hopes.  That's part of what I thought made some of the TOS movies so good.  TNG had been on for a while so there was an established future to build to, with many changes from TOS series.  I thought they could do the same with this show.  But they went off on all these other stories and species never seen before.  There were some things like showing the dangers of playing with time, and they did have the whale-species.  I did still end up enjoying this series, for the most part, but it wasn't what I hoped.

[Pippin]

As far as the theme song itself went, I could have taken it or left it, but the I felt the visuals themselves were excellent and unique.  I would go so far as to say they were the best of all the Treks.

Naturally, YMMV.

 

Edited because there's a big difference between a "wen" and "went"...  (must remember to proofread...)

Edited April 19, 2014 by Pippin

[captain1]

I guess I am in the minority but I absolutely love the opening credits and the theme song.  I thought they both perfectly captured the human spirit of adventure and discovery.

I too hated how political the story lines became and would have loved to have seen more of the history of how things that were common in the later series were discovered/invented.

[Pippin]

captain1, I'm in the minority with you.  As I said, I can take or leave the theme song (but it doesn't drive me crazy like it apparently does others) but the opening credit visuals?

 

Stunning.  Amazing.  As you said, they perfectly capture the spirit of human exploration and are so appropriate to this particular series. 

 

Like I said before, I think they're the best opening credits of all the Trek series.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Pippin

[Gilmel]

captain1, I'm in the minority with you.  As I said, I can take or leave the theme song (but it doesn't drive me crazy like it apparently does others) but the opening credit visuals?

 

Stunning.  Amazing.  As you said, they perfectly capture the spirit of human exploration and are so appropriate to this particular series.

 

I agree with you on the visuals. I love them. I just wish the sequence hadn't been ruined by such a crappy song. What even possessed them to have a Trek theme song with lyrics, I ask? "Faith of the Heart" speaks to me of love, not exploration, so for me, that song doesn't capture the spirit of exploration in the least. It rather reminds me of Bryan Adams's "Everything I Do" or Meatloaf's "I Would Do Anything For Love." But the visuals, yes, they are great.

[Pippin]

Gilmel!  Hail and well met, fellow traveller!

 

Yes, looking back, it seems there could have been some sort of orchesteral theme that might have been better.  But I refused to get into that particular controversy and I still remember the embarrassment of discovering that fans had picketed Paramount over the #@!! theme song.  (*facepalm*)  Protest whatever you want, it's a free society, but when you think of all the issues that are worthy of a picket sign and a chant -- a television show's theme song???

If I knew how to do so, it would be an interesting YouTube project -- find some public domain music that would match the opening credits. 

 

Heh.  Beethovan just popped into my head.  ♫DUH-DUH-DAH-DAH!♫  (Probably because I've been rewatching Carl Sagan's Cosmos and I used to have the soundtrack; they used classic music from all over the world very effectively.)

[RapBert]

I'm just gonna bump in here and say that the theme song was the least of the show's problems.

 

Enterprise was the first exposure to Star Trek for me, besides some of the movies and the random episode of TNG that was on TV in the afternoon. I remember watching it every week, and I liked most of the episodes. After the first season I kind of lost interest and sight of the show. I only started watching it again in season 4, which for some reason aired early sunday morning instead of on friday at primetime.

 

After that, I started to look at all the other things in the franchise, and Enterrise didn't really hold up to most of it. It was just the same stuff we had for years on TNG and Voyager, only even less thought out and worse. It's no wonder that the show massively improved once it actually started to be about something and used the prequel setting to actually show prequel stories. Too bad that it was already to late at that point.

[Pippin]

RapBert:  Apparently the show suffered excessively from network interference.  (This according to Brannon Braga from interviews on the Blue-Ray release.  I haven't seen said interviews; I'm relaying what I read in reviews of same.) 

According to BB, they (the producers) wanted the first season to be more like "First Flight" -- building Enterprise, the first tenative trips out of the system, and so forth.  I wouldn't have minded that, but the studio nixed the idea, and considering the kvetching fans did about how "different" DS9 was, I can see why.   We should all be grateful, though, that the studio/network didn't insist on some of their other ideas being implemented -- like having a different "boy band" play on the show ever week.  *Whew*!
 
I'm not sure where to put this last bit, but I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a rewatch at sometime?  Right now, there's the DS9 rewatch going on, which I'm enjoying, but I was thinking at some point in time, it might be fun to start an Enterprise rewatch.  Not right now, I think, because DS9 is enough but as I said, maybe later?  Might get more discussions going.

Anyhow, it's an idea I'm putting out here to see what folks think of it.  (What a mangled sentence! When Our head hurts, Our grammar is dreadful.)

[John Potts]

Ah yes, Season 1: The Disappointening (OK, that's not a word!). So much potential and possibly intriguing ideas. Take the Temporal Cold War (TCW). Now playing with time travel is something that Trek always tries (and usually fails) at but hey, they've learned from past episodes what works (City on the Edge of Forever - TOS) and what doesn't (Time's Arrow - TNG, Future's End - Voy). So, like the experienced writers they were they know they need who the sides are in the TCW, what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to do it. Did they? Of course not. Similarly, the whole "Is the transporter safe?" question was kind of blown in the first episode when Archer is beamed out without any trouble - now we know the Captain isn't going to die in the Pilot, but couldn't he have lost a couple of toes ("outside the confinement beam") and had Phlox replace them with an Andorian wombat's? And could Archer learn that perhaps the Vulcans had a point in not handing out their technology to humanity by having Archer hand over some tech to a bunch of primitives and it all blows up in his face (you could even see it leading to the Prime Directive)? But for all his talk about gazelles, you never really got the impression that Captain Archer was in fact learning anything and yet we're meant to see him as right - because he's the hero.

 

(I hope that wasn't too rambly or OT)

[Anna Yolei]

I'm just gonna bump in here and say that the theme song was the least of the show's problems.

Enterprise was the first exposure to Star Trek for me, besides some of the movies and the random episode of TNG that was on TV in the afternoon. I remember watching it every week, and I liked most of the episodes. After the first season I kind of lost interest and sight of the show. I only started watching it again in season 4, which for some reason aired early sunday morning instead of on friday at primetime.

After that, I started to look at all the other things in the franchise, and Enterrise didn't really hold up to most of it. It was just the same stuff we had for years on TNG and Voyager, only even less thought out and worse. It's no wonder that the show massively improved once it actually started to be about something and used the prequel setting to actually show prequel stories. Too bad that it was already to late at that point.

I stuck through the whole of the series, but besides that, this describes me as well. So much wasted potential...and UO time, but I'm including season four as well. Coto brought much needed energy to the show, but it kinda smacked of what DS9 did its first season of jamming as many TNG referrences as possible to grab fans.

But that's expected of a first season trying to find its footing. By season four, Enterprise should've had its own unique stories and own characters that stood out (well, Archer does :/ ) and helped herald the Birth of the Federation. There shouldn't have been cribing from TOS for EVERY damn arc.

Which reminds me, I had a rewatch thread on another site I completely forgot about before typing this I should attend to.

[Anna Yolei]

Seems about right for Archer. I don't share the sentiment that many in fandom did at the time of airing that he should've been killed of and let Trip run the show; however I've since joined the Navy myself, and if we had a leader like this....well, it'd be swept under the rug cuz he is so connected :/ But it would be hell working for a CO that showed such inappropriate behavior towards his second in command. And that shit has a way of trickling down.

One goid take away from the season was the Andorians. Come to think of it, they're one of the less stereotyped species to come outta Trek in a while. Jeffrey Combs did a great job in the role, and the first Andorian episode is honestly what got me hooked to the show (and by extension, the whole of Trek).

[Kev]

I thought Season 4 was fantastic. Especially when it came to the Vulcans. 

[Pippin]

Well, I don't know why I should, considering all the criticism I'm reading here, but I loved Enterprise right from the get-go.  :)

 

Yes, there were flaws.  Yes, things could have been done better.  (But I humbly submit that that is true of all the Trek series).  But I loved this show and am still pissed that it was cut short due to studio and network stupidity.  (Curse you, UPN!  And CW!  And everyone else involved in that decision!!  Rails uselessly against hard-hearted Hollywood and its machinations.)

 

Perhaps it was the charm of the actors involved.  I don't recall another cast where I liked so many of the actors involved and their characters .  Ironically, the only character I wasn't all that fussy about was the Vulcan and I have been a Vulcan fan since forever, but I blame that more on Bermaga more than I do the actress; I think Ms. Blalock did the best she could with what she was given.  (Nor was I a Trip/T'Poler, but again, that's the writers.)

 

There is currently a fan-run campaign attempting to convince Netflix to resurrect Enterprise much in the same way Jericho was resurrected, and I will say that if it is, I will be happily watching.

[Lebanna]

Unlikely that anyone will be resurrecting it, as obviously Trip is still dead and the actor who played  Archer is on the new NCIS at the moment. Much as I loathed Archer, he was pretty important to the show as a whole. (Also, I imagine that sadly the dog will have passed on by now, or at least be well into retirement, so that role would have to be recast!)

 

I could never get into this show as I really enjoyed the actor in other things but hated Archer so much for his shouting and whining and general lousy attitude. Also because they tried to make out that the character had earned his role as captain, but it was pretty clearly nepotism all the way. My Archer hate made me avoid the show up until I started watching the French dub, where somehow the voice actor seems to bring a dignity and a rather ironic tone to Archer's lines (or maybe everything just sounds better in French). Suddenly there without the irritating fratboy element, the show was watchable and I mainlined all the episodes in a month.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the show got much better as it went on, as is the case with many Star Trek show, except maybe TOS. I wish that they had used characters like Hoshi and Maywhatever better, but the doctor, Trip and T'Pol were all likeable as the show went on. Seasons 3 and 4 were the highlight for me, as the show seemed to be finding its feet and deciding where it was going, while using some of the imagination it had lacked until that point. I now think season 5 could have been actually good, and wish it had come about.

[Pippin]

Trip is not dead, never was!  Seriously, his death can be fixed very easily (if it is canon and there is a great deal of debate whether or not it is; I have been told by those in the know that CBS does not consider TATV to be canon although you will not find any official confirmation of this).  You can fix his death in a whole episode, a scene or two or a single scene; it depends on how much time you want to devote to it.

 

I believe that most fans take my point of view:  the episode was a hologram, programmed to make a point (whatever the f@ck the point was supposed to be) and historical accuracy be damned.  Considering the lack of continuity within the episode itself and the lack of consistency with the characters themselves, I think this explanation works well.

 

The actors have all indicated they would be willing to do the series, and if it was done on Netflix it would probably be a limited series -- not a full 24 episode/year but more like 7 - 10/year (like House of Cards or True Detective).  That's a lot easier to schedule. 

I don't know if it will happen but I can hope.  I've emailed CBS and once they figure out who to snail mail (people who have done so have had their mail returned) I will do that, too.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and as Kirk said, "May fortune favour the bold."

[RapBert]

 

I believe that most fans take my point of view:  the episode was a hologram, programmed to make a point (whatever the f@ck the point was supposed to be) and historical accuracy be damned.  Considering the lack of continuity within the episode itself and the lack of consistency with the characters themselves, I think this explanation works well.

 

In the Enterprise relaunch novels, that's exactly what it is. You should give them a try, they're well written and an excellent continuation of the various plots set in motion throughout season 4.

[Pippin]

I've heard about the relaunch novels, RapBert and I have to say, I don't like the idea of sending Trip off on his own to work for Section 31.  I want my crew together!  And I can't see Trip as a spy.  He's too straightforward to make the questionable moral choices a spy must make.  I'm glad that the novels make an attempt to reset The Abomination and send it off to oblivion where it rightfully belongs, but I don't care for that particular solution.

It's funny; most of the time I don't mind stepping outside the "Trek" box.  But not in this instance.  Like I said, I want my crew together!

[Pippin]

Space currently has STNG and "Voyager" running and right now I'm watching "Arsenal of Freedom" from STNG season one.  I'm posting this for a couple of reasons which will tie back to Enterprise, I promise. 

First off, let's be fair and admit STNG's first season had its fair share of stinkers.  I happen to think "Arsenal of Freedom" is NOT one of them, though. (Love how it's Beverly, who, in exasperation, says turn the damned thing off! and solves the problem).

In fact, all of the "Treks" had their training wheels on for a couple of seasons; I think Enterprise got clobbered because, unlike STNG, which was new and wonderful and the first Trek seen on the tube in ages, Enterprise was the fourth in line.  The red-headed stepchild of the franchise, if you will.  Because I think fans gave STNG stinker episodes a pass the first time out simply because they finally had some Trek on the tube.  I know I did.  I suspect another series might not get beaten into the ground were it to show up on the tube now.

(It's interesting -- I've read a lot of posts w/regards to the Netflix revival campaign that say, in essence, I hated this show when it was on and now I've watched it on Netflix and you know what?  I'm sorry it got cancelled and I wish we'd see more.  And I don't mean one or two posts, I mean lots. And lots.   This attitude runs to about 90% of the comments I've read.  But anyhow. I digress.)

 

The other thing I wanted to say is that in this episode, Geordi is nervous and untested, whereas my man Trip, when handed command, handles it like he was born to the Captain's chair.  Yes, I'm prejudiced, but still... :)

Edited December 3, 2014 by Pippin

[Kev]

You said it much better than I could, Pippin. I actually really enjoy Enterprise and have from the start. 

[Cable Guy]

I guess I am in the minority but I absolutely love the opening credits and the theme song.  I thought they both perfectly captured the human spirit of adventure and discovery.

 

 

Exactly, throughout the show (especially in the early episodes) we're sort of treated to a picture of young, optimistic but naive humanity making it's way to the stars.  This is NOT the mature and established Starfleet we see in 'later' shows.  For me, the song captures this human spirit beautifully.    

 

To be honest, I found the song annoying at first but by the end of the show I had purchased it on iTunes.

[huahaha]

On 2/20/2015 at 8:19 PM, Cable Guy said:

To be honest, I found the song annoying at first but by the end of the show I had purchased it on iTunes.

Watching the show for the first time this year, I thought the theme song was ridiculous.

Now I picture Trip singing it like he's in a Bryan Adams video, and I can't wait to hear it again.

[legaleagle53]

One thing that I think this show did very well was explain how and why certain Federation institutions came to be.

For example, I always hated the rather draconian (in my view) Prime Directive, which prohibited the Federation from interfering in planetary practices that were clearly wrong from a moral standpoint (for example, in the Voyager episode 30 Days, it is discovered that one planet is basically raping a neighboring planet's ecosystem by stealing its oceans.  When Paris disobeys Janeway's direct order not to interfere and tries to destroy the machine that is stealing the oceans, she not only reprimands him, she demotes him and sentences him to 30 days in the brig for trying to save the planet -- and even his fellow officers join in condemning his actions while he's in the brig).  That to me was a prime (no pun intended) example of how hateful the Directive was and why I was glad to be rid of it in Enterprise.

Then the Enterprise episode Cogenitor aired, and it showed exactly what can happen when good intentions combine with wrong impressions to bring about a disaster.  Trip meant well (he thought that it was immoral to keep the third-sex "cogenitors" relegated to the status of mere reproductive aids when they were themselves highly intelligent and capable of learning and thinking for themselves), but his efforts to emancipate one of them ended with the cogenitor committing suicide and destroying a couple's ability to have children in the process, since the participation of a cogenitor was necessary in order to complete the procreation process in that species.

After seeing the kind of catastrophe that unwarranted and uninformed interference in planetary cultural practices actually brought upon a species, I began to appreciate how and why the Prime Directive eventually came into being and why the Federation in later centuries would not only hold it to be sacrosanct but inviolate at all costs as well.

Edited July 3, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Pippin]

On 2016-07-01 at 0:28 AM, huahaha said:

Now I picture Trip singing it like he's in a Bryan Adams video, and I can't wait to hear it again.

I would pay real money to see this.  Seriously.

[huahaha]

14 hours ago, Pippin said:

I would pay real money to see this.  Seriously.

Can't you just see it? Clenched fists shimmying next to his chest as he sings... "I've got FAI-ITH of the HEA-AR-ARRT..."

[Archery]

Been watching the show on Netflix 'cuz my DVD player's broken.  I loved this show hard core back in the day (obviously, see: handle), and I was a bit afraid it wouldn't hold up for me years later.  It does.  I started with the Pilot, and there are surprisingly few episode that I skip or even fast-forward through (although I hit Cogenitor on a particularly bad day and just could not deal with the heartbreaking subject matter.  It's an excellent episode, though.)  It makes a difference, I think, when you can pick up little character beats or plot hints in early episodes that blossom in later ones.  More often than not, I find myself thinking, I'd forgotten how good this episode is, and rewinding scenes to watch again.  I'm heading into the last quarter of Season 3, and even though I know very well how it all turns out, I'm glued to the screen. 

[Danny Franks]

I've been watching it on Netflix too. First time I've ever seen the show, and I have to say, it is far more in keeping with what I want from a show than other iterations of Star Trek.

I guess it was a conscious decision by the writers, because it's a couple of hundred years (I think) before most of what we know as Star Trek, but the characters all feel much looser and relaxed and more... human. Bickering and hanging out, at ease in each other's company. The cold formality of Voyager is nowhere to be seen, except for T'Pol. And her character works so much better than Tuvok did, because she's the only character who has that cool stillness and detachment. She's straight man to the entire crew.

The Vulcans are used in a really interesting way, as stern, parental allies who can almost feel like antagonists at times. They take on the role here that the crews of Enterprise or Voyager would take on for the less advanced races they came across during their adventures.

Yes, Archer is whiny and self-righteous, and Reed is a prick and Tucker is a bit of an oaf, but that all strikes a chord as being more realistic than Tom Paris supposedly being a rebel.

The theme song is corny as hell, but I agree that the credit sequence is fantastic. Gives the show a real gravitas and sense of place and time. It emphasises just how new all this is, which is then reinforced during the episodes when there is a real sense of wonder amongst the characters, whenever they encounter something new.

This is all ancient history now, but I don't know why the show was a comparative failure, because it's a lot of fun. Yes, it has more than its fair share of goofy monster of the week plots, but so do nearly all genre shows.

[SmithW6079]

On 9/25/2016 at 11:48 AM, Danny Franks said:

The theme song is corny as hell, but I agree that the credit sequence is fantastic. Gives the show a real gravitas and sense of place and time. It emphasises just how new all this is, which is then reinforced during the episodes when there is a real sense of wonder amongst the characters, whenever they encounter something new.

I'll grant you that the visuals of the credit sequence are arresting, but the theme song is like the worst '80s power ballad ever. All it's missing is Michael Bolton shitting a watermelon as he groans the lyrics. "Voyager" had the best of all the Trek opening credits.

I watched "Enterprise" its first season, and I might have watched the second, but I gave it up soon after. The trouble with prequels is that you're restrained in some ways by your own future history. "Enterprise" said, "fuck it!" and created their own. I think it's one thing when they're minor changes, but "Enterprise" had the Temporal Cold War and the Xindi and the devastation of Earth with 7 million dead, events that were never ever mentioned in any of the other Treks. The Romulan war could have been a great story line. 

I'm catching the show again on Heroes & Icons, and it's not as bad as I remember, but it's not really good. I just watched "Extinction," in which Archer, Hoshi, and Reed get a virus that changes them into another species, and I was embarrassed watching them. How could they not have been? For a race that acted like little more than savages, how could the Loque'eque have created the monuments and mutagenic virus?

They had break-out characters in Trip and T'Pol, and I think they knew it, because we kept seeing those two together more and more. I like Scott Bakula, and I think he was fine as Archer. Vulcans as slightly sinister, with uncertain motives, was a nice twist and still in line with the Vulcans of later series, and I did like seeing the Andorians. We didn't see enough of them in TOS (I liked that in "Yesteryear" of the animated series, Kirk's first officer in the changed timeline is Andorian).

[Danny Franks]

I can see what they were going for with the theme music, the idea of humanity finally having the wherewithal to journey out into the true unknown. But it's too cheesy for words.

As established, I'm not conversant enough with Star Trek lore to worry about them contradicting the earlier series, but I'm on season 3 at the moment, and I find it very hard to care about the Xindi storyline. Some badly defined, mysterious aliens want to destroy Earth for some reason. Great, but these guys aren't exactly Klingons or Borg, are they? They're not iconic villains, around which to build a long term storyline.

And as for the Temporal Cold War storyline, I feel pretty much the same about time travel as Captain Janeway did:

Yeah. It doesn't do it for me. They should have spent more time in the present, the wonder of the galaxy and meeting other alien races that fans would know and care about. So what if it was a nostalgia trip? The first time the Romulans were mentioned, I had a brief moment where I thought they might be major villains in the series, and that would have been fantastic.

Regarding the characters, I think Hoshi has been underused, and they could have given her more to do than the couple of episodes where she seemed unable to cope with various things. Malcolm just becomes a bigger dick by the episode, and Travis never really becomes anything.

I do like T'Pol and Trip, and I actually like the potential romance between them. Seeing a vulcan fall in love is something new, for me (I don't include the movies, with Spock and Uhura), and Jolene Blalock seems to play the role pretty well, in terms of balancing Vulcan behaviour with the idea that there is a yearning underneath.

As for embarrassing episodes, this show has its fair share. The one where they get turned into primitive aliens is awful, but probably still not as bad as when Paris and Janeway got turned into newts. Both of them are worse than the infamous Jeremiah Crichton, a Farscape episode so bad that the cast and crew just ripped on it non-stop during their DVD commentary.

[AndySmith]

That can be the problem with prequel shows, when they spend so much time focusing on stuff (like the Xindi and the Temporal Cold War) that never, ever, ever, get mentioned on the other shows.

[SmithW6079]

On 9/30/2016 at 0:14 PM, Danny Franks said:

I can see what they were going for with the theme music, the idea of humanity finally having the wherewithal to journey out into the true unknown. But it's too cheesy for words.

As established, I'm not conversant enough with Star Trek lore to worry about them contradicting the earlier series, but I'm on season 3 at the moment, and I find it very hard to care about the Xindi storyline. Some badly defined, mysterious aliens want to destroy Earth for some reason. Great, but these guys aren't exactly Klingons or Borg, are they? They're not iconic villains, around which to build a long term storyline.

And as for the Temporal Cold War storyline, I feel pretty much the same about time travel as Captain Janeway did:

 

Yeah. It doesn't do it for me. They should have spent more time in the present, the wonder of the galaxy and meeting other alien races that fans would know and care about. So what if it was a nostalgia trip? The first time the Romulans were mentioned, I had a brief moment where I thought they might be major villains in the series, and that would have been fantastic.

Regarding the characters, I think Hoshi has been underused, and they could have given her more to do than the couple of episodes where she seemed unable to cope with various things. Malcolm just becomes a bigger dick by the episode, and Travis never really becomes anything.

I do like T'Pol and Trip, and I actually like the potential romance between them. Seeing a vulcan fall in love is something new, for me (I don't include the movies, with Spock and Uhura), and Jolene Blalock seems to play the role pretty well, in terms of balancing Vulcan behaviour with the idea that there is a yearning underneath.

As for embarrassing episodes, this show has its fair share. The one where they get turned into primitive aliens is awful, but probably still not as bad as when Paris and Janeway got turned into newts. Both of them are worse than the infamous Jeremiah Crichton, a Farscape episode so bad that the cast and crew just ripped on it non-stop during their DVD commentary.

As much as I despise Enterprise for fucking its own future history, if I ignore that it's supposed to be Trek, then I have to admit that I am kind of enjoying the Xindi storyline. Not so much the Xindi themselves, but the Enterprise crew's quest to discover them and the revenge factor in it all. As much as I do love TOS and Roddenberry's belief that the goodness of humans will outweigh the bad, I'm liking that this Enterprise crew is not always lovey-dovey.

That said, I agree that about the embarrassing episodes. In addition to the one where they turn into the primitive aliens (yet who were sophisticated enough to create a virus that turns aliens into their own species), there was one that was one H&I just the other day -- the one with, for lack of a better phrase, zombie Vulcans. Yes, let's repeat that -- zombie Vulcans. Another truly awful episode.

I never cared for Hoshi. Maybe it was the youth of the actress (I think I read she was only 23 when she got the role), but she never had the gravitas that Nichelle Nichols brought to Uhura.

I liked T'Pol and Trip, but even well into season 3, it seemed like they were still trying to pair up Archer and T'Pol, as evidenced by the episode where Archer contracts some kind of temporal virus that erases his short-term memory, humanity is all by destroyed by the Xindi, and T'Pol becomes his caregiver for 14 years.

As for Malcolm, I have no real opinion of him. I thought he was supposed to have been the first openly gay Trek character, but apparently that was Trek apocrypha.

Unlike Janeway, I do love a good time travel and/or alternate history story :-) One of the best Voyager's is "Year of Hell," and the mirror universe stories in TOS, DS9 (although they went to the well too often with that), and Enterprise.  

Edited October 3, 2016 by SmithW6079
Deleted Janeway's photo

[supposebly]

Well, I finished my first-time watch of this Trek. I actually think it's the better one after DS9 (which I watched in more detail). I admit I only watch the higher ranked/reviewed episodes, there is just otherwise so much boring stuff with very little follow-up. I liked the last two seasons better than the first two. 

I never warmed up to Archer. Him being so obnoxious made a lot of sense at the beginning but later, I think it was mainly Bakula. He never seemed to be able to dial it down. He so often seemed to be overacting to the point of ridiculousness. The posturing and the chin raising and the ponderous walking, he was often terrible. Which surprised me because he was quite good on Chuck. That's the only other time I remember seeing him. 

Since there seems to be an obligatory element on every Trek series about some oddball becoming human (Voyager and Borg girl, Data, Spock, maybe Odo?), I liked how that particular Trek trope was handled with T'Pol. Within her own Vulcan limitations and ideas. Still, why do they have to put these women in these skin tight clothes? I hate that. I stopped watching Voyager after a while because of that.

Overall, I liked her and Trip the best. Their relationship was interesting the way it developed. It made a lot of sense considering the times and circumstances. Vulcan neuropressure. Hah! Phlox so knew this was gonna happen! 

I was particular to Hoshi since I'm a linguist myself. Hoshi was fun when she was always so afraid at the beginning. Not military. A scientist that felt out of place in that environment. I liked that perspective. It felt genuine and realistic. And then she took over in the mirror universe. That was even more fun. Too bad she had to do it with her clothes off most of the time.

I even started to like Travis when he got an ex-girlfriend. And then the show ended. Damn.

Malcolm can go and be boring somewhere else. They really didn't seem to know what to do with him after the first season or so. At the very end they gave him a back story that put him in some conflict. Oh well.

I loved Shran and that odd relationship he developed with Archer. It was never easy but I liked it.

I also really liked Phlox. He seemed so genuinely nice and even-headed, I guess you learn that if your family relations are so complex. You stop sweating the small stuff.

I don't really care about continuity since I can barely remember one show after another and I've only just recently watched the original series' first two seasons intermittently, so I don't really care all that much. Still, didn't Kirk encounter the Romulans the first time and thought they were Vulcan? Even I noticed because that was one of the episodes that I remembered.

But WTF was that final episode? I was never a fan of TNG and Riker the least of all. Yuck. I really didn't need that. They could have ended with the previous episode and it would have been fine. Not great but ok. This was an abomination. And they killed Trip! Bastards!

So I guess there were really no Xindi until this show made them up. Oh well, they did create a good thorough storyline, so I don't have much of a problem.

ETA: OMG that awful music! I skipped past it after I listened to it once. This is why I despise Micheal Bolton and his ilk. I lived through that time when power ballads were all the rage. I'm still traumatized.

Edited October 31, 2016 by supposebly

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, supposebly said:

But WTF was that final episode? I was never a fan of TNG and Riker the least of all. Yuck. I really didn't need that. They could have ended with the previous episode and it would have been fine. Not great but ok. This was an abomination. And they killed Trip! Bastards!

Agreed -- there was no need to add Riker into this finale.  Some writer likely thought that 'this would be oh so clever' but it just came across as lame.  But killing Trip was the biggest FU to the fans.  It was completely unnecessary, there was no real good reason for his death, and it added nothing to the finale.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But killing Trip was the biggest FU to the fans.  It was completely unnecessary, there was no real good reason for his death, and it added nothing to the finale.

And the fans have never forgiven the producers for doing it, either.

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, supposebly said:

But WTF was that final episode? I was never a fan of TNG and Riker the least of all. Yuck. I really didn't need that. They could have ended with the previous episode and it would have been fine. Not great but ok. This was an abomination. And they killed Trip! Bastards!

 

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Agreed -- there was no need to add Riker into this finale.  Some writer likely thought that 'this would be oh so clever' but it just came across as lame.  But killing Trip was the biggest FU to the fans.  It was completely unnecessary, there was no real good reason for his death, and it added nothing to the finale.

Well to be fair to the writers and producers Scott Bakula does have it in his contract that any series finale he appears in has to be a huge disappointment. His agent insists on it, along with a special clause that if it's a sci-fi show it must feel like a giant middle finger to the fans as well. We should count ourselves lucky that it didn't end with a title card saying "The crew of the Enterpris never returned home"...

Edited October 31, 2016 by wknt3
correct grammar

[AndySmith]

Quote

Agreed -- there was no need to add Riker into this finale.  Some writer likely thought that 'this would be oh so clever' but it just came across as lame.  

It also somehow made the TNG episode "Pegasus", which was a really good episode, a little more lame by association.

[mattie0808]

A little? ;)

The last episode...just wasn't good. I didn't even like Brent Spiner's voice cameo as Data, because Data wouldn't be confusing colloquial phrases or whatever like that at that point in time (that was a nice nod/joke to Data's development in "All Good Things"). Everything on both the ENT and TNG side of things was just off. Or bad.

Edited October 31, 2016 by mattie0808

[blueray]

Count me in the I hated the finale group. I actually didn't make it all away through it, gave up in the middle of the episode. I of course read what happened afterwards. How dare they kill Trip off :(. And I didn't like how it was on the holodeck of TNG.  I like to forget that episode and pretend it ended with the episode before it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, blueray said:

Count me in the I hated the finale group. I actually didn't make it all away through it, gave up in the middle of the episode. I of course read what happened afterwards. How dare they kill Trip off :(. And I didn't like how it was on the holodeck of TNG.  I like to forget that episode and pretend it ended with the episode before it.

I'm still pissed they killed Trip -- I refuse to re-watch the finale because it will just tick me off again.  Totally agree that they should have stopped at the previous episode instead of the piece of crap that was the finale.  And there was absolutely no reason for the TNG portion of the finale other than padding to fill out the episode -- that was all it did.

[friendperidot]

to me the best thing about this show is the dog. I love that there is a dog on a star ship. Other than that, I like Phlox, he's such an interesting character. The actor was on NYPD Blue which I started watching for the first time ever this year. H&I and no satellite have brought some interesting programs to me in the past year. I don't usually watch tv very closely, listen & glance at the screen occasionally is my viewing style. So I heard this voice on NYPD Blue and thought, I know that voice, who is he? Then I knew. 

This may be sacrilege, but I even like the theme song. I know many people don't. But it's different and I can tell it from all the others.

[dwmarch]

Wow, I'm surprised there's been no love for this season going on three years now... Season 4 of Enterprise was my favorite and had so much good stuff in it. Off the top of my head:

The mini-arcs were fun and allowed for better storytelling.

"Observer Effect" is the absolute essence of Star Trek and made great use of every character and the existing lore. IaMD was good for the same reason plus "shoot the first one that stops clapping" (which was apparently a deleted scene but I remember seeing it).

The reveal of the Romulan involvement in Babel One was incredible with that long pulling-back shot of a window that becomes a building that becomes part of the skyline on Romulus.

Affliction/Divergence had some gold too, particularly Trip getting from Columbia to Enterprise on a wire and the Klingons admitting that they had tried to abduct Dr. Soong but he was under heavy guard.

Terra Prime should have been the finale. My only issue with the episode is that you aren't going to invoke humanity's xenophobic urges by menacing them with an adorable baby. Other than that, Peter Weller was as good of a villain as Star Trek has ever had (much better than his turn as Admiral Evil in Into Darkness), the action was intense and there were some absolute standout moments like Hoshi's almost-in-tears "standing by" and Trip mourning for Elizabeth.

These Are the Voyages is obviously a holo-novel heavy on the drama and light on the reality. Sorry Riker, none of it happened that way.

[stillshimpy]

Okay, I've only seen two episodes of this series so far and I really only have one thing I can say with conviction:  who thought that theme song was a good idea because that person was pretty much the definition of wrong on every conceivable level.   It's sounds like something that ought to be the theme song for a family drama, set on a ranch, headlining CMT's schedule.   Holy shit, I've got faith...of the heart....?   

I've never been mortified on behalf of a show about their credit song before.  Is that what it really was in the original run?  I'm so hoping someone will say they had something better, lost the rights, or something because there has to be a reason they chose something that awful.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, stillshimpy said:

Okay, I've only seen two episodes of this series so far and I really only have one thing I can say with conviction:  who thought that theme song was a good idea because that person was pretty much the definition of wrong on every conceivable level.   It's sounds like something that ought to be the theme song for a family drama, set on a ranch, headlining CMT's schedule.   Holy shit, I've got faith...of the heart....?   

I've never been mortified on behalf of a show about their credit song before.  Is that what it really was in the original run?  I'm so hoping someone will say they had something better, lost the rights, or something because there has to be a reason they chose something that awful.  

You are not alone -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_of_the_Heart#Reception_3 

I've got no idea if there was ever an alternative theme song considered.

Edited January 9, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[Maverick]

 I never loved t he song, but didn't hate it either.  The theme song was far the biggest problems of this show.

[stillshimpy]

Quote

 

You are not alone -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_of_the_Heart#Reception_3 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the answer, ottoDbusdriver.  At least I know I'm not the only one to have had a "....?" moment or eight from the choice.  

 

I've certainly gotten that impression, Maverick, seeing as almost every Trek fan I've talked to about it told me some version of, "It's not really necessary to watch it and it might actually negatively impact how much you like the other shows" but I thought that had to do with -- even I know this just from legend -- the whole series ends with some kind of "we just fucked with the entire timeline of the canon, for fun!  Enjoy the illogical choices! Bye!" 

The song is just drippy and belongs to a different genre entirely.  It's a thematically dissonant choice.   Although, it did make me laugh a little because was Roddenberry dead by the time this series was under way?  I had a bunch of false starts trying to watch the Treks but when I finally did plunge into TNG about 6 years ago, I was genuinely surprised by how friggin' obnoxious Captain Picard could be about other people having any kind of faith.   It was just strange, "We must not interfere because of the prime directive, we can't risk changing your society before you are ready to advance, you understand.  By the way?  Poo.  Poo on the gods you worship.  Invisible sky bullies, you're like a bunch of children.  Sorry about attacking one of the cornerstones of your society, peace out" which while frequently at least amusing was really pretty far into the "Interfering.  Well, what is interfering, really?  I can't give you this technology, you're not ready for it, so instead let me just try to disassemble one of the foundations of your lives" territory.  

So the first time I heard the song I felt as if it was the kind of choice that would have made Gene Roddenberry choke on a sandwich.  It just so strongly  implies religion when the word faith is brought up even though they are not interchangeable words.  I kind of envisioned a writers' room worth of writers dancing around the "because we finally can! Wooooo! Freedom, sweet freedom!!" bonfire.  

I know, DS9 actually already broke that seal by having the Bajorans practicing a religion and Worf had a sort of belief system, I just thought having the theme song yell "faith of the...." multiple times was funny in the first episode.   Then, by the third episode, it's just so...wrong.   Not because of the lyrics but because there's zero space-exploration-is-our-jam type of vibe to it.  

Also, thus far, Archer really sucks and I want Laura Roslin to pop up in a tiny cameo and throw him in a BSG-style airlock.  I know the Federation is not a gig yet, in this premise, but my god, command structure was a known and practiced thing.   I guess they just wanted a wild-wild-west type of feeling and one way to get there was to pretend that ....gosh, pretty much anything he's done so far when it comes to interacting with his crew....Archer was just earning his command wings or something. 

Kind of a weird series, so far, to be honest.  The extended scene of T'Pol and Connor in their undies practically yelling, "As close as we could get to gratuitous nudity, enjoy, folks!  Seven-of-Nine isn't the only one with a smokin' bod!"  although I was in stitches laughing over the "I will spread this anti-contaminant all-over-person sanitizer exactly one finger joint length down into my underwear because that somehow makes sense!  Also, let's pretend that Vulcan's are so inflexible that they can't reach their own lower backs. "

Thus far the series has been primarily comedic.   "Oh, you have claustrophobia and panic attacks?  We used OSHA guidelines to test the transporter.  They didn't survive, sad to say for you, haul your panic attack ass over into the deadville alien ship and if you start wiggin'?  I'll scream helpfully at you.  I'm your captain! "

Unless I'm just reading this all wrong and the next episode is all about how Archer has to see the ship's doctor for a mood stabilizer.  

Edited January 9, 2017 by stillshimpy

[friendperidot]

T'Pol sure does spend a lot of time mostly naked in that blue light chamber, doesn't she?