S04.E08: All I'm Sayin'

[Tara Ariano]

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Daniel envisions what his new life could be and begins to appreciate the progress he's made; and Janet commiserates with a surprising confidante.

[Kathemy]

This will be bittersweet no matter what happens.

[AuntiePam]

The "surprising confidante" has to be Judy Dean.  The writing on this show is so good, I'm really looking forward to how they handle this. 

[HollyG]

It's still 2.5 hours from showing on the west coast. I'm  going crazy waiting. I'm not sure what I want to happen. I believe Daniel's innocent but I have to accept it could go the other way.  Either he's not guilty and he's been horribly wronged, or, he's guilty but didn't get a fair trial. I just hope the ending isn't ambiguous.

[Armchair Critic]

Suck it Trey, Chris, and most of all you Foulkes! This is so good....

[kieyra]

The commercials after every single scene are brutal. This is the only show I'd sit through "live" viewing for.

[Armchair Critic]

Perfect. I could have done without Manic Pixie girl being his end game, but if it makes him happy I'm good. 

[kieyra]

What the what. You guys were right, Tawney and Daniel didn't even get a scene together?

Instead Chloe and her baby are his happily ever after? 

I'm still processing, but much of this felt too neat in a way that was ultimately unsatisfying. Believe me I hate typing these words. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by kieyra

[Ms Lark]

7 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Perfect. I could have done without Manic Pixie girl being his end game, but if it makes him happy I'm good. 

Agreed. They had me until the last 5 min, but it's sort of ok since it was just a daydream. I do wish they had jumped forward 6-12 months to him being completely exonerated for certain and the actual killer convicted. I like closure.

Tawney following her dream is good with me. I can see her doing missionary work of a kind and finding someone with the same ideals.

Well, good bye Rectify, it was a great run while it lasted.

[Primetimer]

Sarah D. Bunting isn't a crackpot; she just isn't sure the final season of this uniquely great show added to its legend.

View the full article

[Armchair Critic]

I also liked this review from Variety http://variety.com/2016/tv/features/rectify-series-finale-recap-aden-young-ray-mckinnon-abigail-spencer-1201942833/

[AuntiePam]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

What the what. You guys were right, Tawney and Daniel didn't even get a scene together?

Instead Chloe and her baby are his happily ever after? 

I'm still processing, but much of this felt too neat in a way that was ultimately unsatisfying. Believe me I hate typing these words. 

I'm still processing too, and will be for awhile.  The finale was full of satisfying moments, so I can accept that last scene as what Daniel hoped for and that he'll be all right even if it doesn't turn out that way.  That said, when I rewatch, I'll stop with Daniel laying on his bed. 

Maybe some of it was too neat, but there were also McKinnon's little touches that have made all the episodes special.  My favorite was Bobby Dean clearing crap out of his back yard so Jared would have a place to sit. 

What I most appreciate about the writing was all the pauses, the quiet parts without dialogue -- those gave us time to think. 

[vixenbynight]

I'm glad that Daniel realizes that it's okay to be hopeful. I don't think that Daniel, Chloe and her baby end up together. It's just Daniel letting himself hope for that possible future.

I loved the dual scenes of Daniel with his roommates sharing a meal, along with his family back in Georgia laughing, joking and enjoying themselves at their dinner. They are all healing.

I never thought that Daniel and Tawney would end up romantically together. They helped each other at a specific moment, but that's in the past. They both have to move on and make their own futures.

Thank you Ray McKinnon and Sundance TV. 

[bmoore4026]

...monkey bread?

[Armchair Critic]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

 

...monkey bread?

 

A girl I used to work with would always bring monkey bread to our work potlucks, it was cinnamon flavored and kind of sticky and you just pull it apart. Pretty good.

Some more random thoughts this morning. What was the book that Chloe gave Daniel to read? It was jarring to see Trey being happy go lucky in 'Sweet Home Alabama' when I was flipping channels the other day.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

...monkey bread?

It was a callback to season one. I guess that's her go-to family gathering dish.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm still sorting out my feelings on this.  There was a whole lot to like even if at times it felt very much like an effort to run out the clock without providing any actual resolutions at all.  Part of me had long suspected we might not get answers to the big questions, and Amantha all but confirmed it early on in telling Jon about her epiphany that no matter how things turned out there would be no rectifying it for Hanna or Lester or the 18-year-old Daniel had been.  So I knew it was a very real likelihood and was mostly okay with the idea that there wouldn't be any pat endings, but I'd also be lying if there wasn't some part of me when the final credits rolled that wasn't muttering at the screen "hey guys, did you maybe forget something?"

While I liked the scenes with the two dinners, it did make me a little sad that they were ending with a big family dinner that Daniel still couldn't be a part of.   He's still missing.   I've really liked a lot of the Nashville scenes, but I also can't disagree with whichever reviewer said separating Daniel from the rest of the cast for almost the entire last season robbed episodes of a lot of those wonderfully intimate scenes of him struggling to reconnect with the people who had waited a half a lifetime for him.  The Nashville cast has done good work coming in so late to the game, but we couldn't possibly be expected to have the same emotional investment in them as someone we'd been watching since the first season.

I would imagine whether the ending of Daniel dreaming of a walking into the sunset with Chloe and her baby works for you depends a least a little on how you felt about her character.  I've never had a problem with her, but either way I think it was more about what it represents than her specifically.  Maybe they'll stay in touch and eventually reconnect and end up together if he's ever exonerated and truly free or probably more likely they won't.   As Pickle pointed in the group scene where Daniel was struggling with the idea of failed expectations, it's a huge thing for him to have expectations or hope in the first place.  He probably hasn't since before death row and it signals a huge sea change from where he's been most of the series: feeling like he couldn't manage even the most mundane sort of living and as he's said repeatedly about two steps away from running back to the prison and begging to be let back in.  The cinematography of it was gorgeous.

Daniel's recounting of Kerwin's final walk was stellar and breathtaking and horrible in forcing you to see it from an angle that usually isn't considered.  I quite liked the panorama of all the various characters seeing the official announcement on TV.  Maybe it was too easy a choice, but it worked in tying every Paulie character involved in the murder investigation together.

Edited December 15, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Kathemy]

Absurdly underwhelming.

[AuntiePam]

21 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

Absurdly underwhelming.

I was underwhelmed at first, but after thinking some more about it, I can't say what I wanted to happen that didn't happen.  Daniel's on his way to becoming part of the world -- considering what he's been through, that's a miracle.

There were no "big" moments but the small moments add up to something very special.

[Kathemy]

If this had been a great finale we would all have known it. Look at Six Feet Under. Look at Friday Night Lights.

This show didn't even get anywhere close to that poetry and conclusion, and it was a far better show than those.

I'm extremely disappointed. The final season made me devalue it from the best television show I had ever seen to the third, possibly.

[Armchair Critic]

23 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

If this had been a great finale we would all have known it. Look at Six Feet Under

I always tell people that Six Feet Under's finale was the best. I did like the ending for Rectify but I don't know if it was the Chloe effect or what but for some weird reason I found Daniel less likable this last season.

[Bcharmer]

Like Six Feet Under, this show actually made me *feel* something throughout its run. I cried a few times during the finale. Sure, it wasn't quite like SFU's finale (nothing compares to that, in my opinion), but I thought it was wonderful, just the same. Daniel and Kerwin "driving" in New York just killed me.  

[nodorothyparker]

Almost a full day later, I'm not completely sure I would consider it a great finale either.  There were things I liked about it a lot but it honestly felt more like a season finale with more story still to come than any kind of finite conclusion.  It's obvious from a couple of interviews with Ray McKinnon I've read that he wasn't at all interested in writing that kind of ending.  That's his prerogative because it's his show, but he had to know that some people really did want to know once and for all who killed Hanna and would Daniel be exonerated after all that pain and suffering, or at least walk away with some concrete idea of forward movement for all of these characters.

[Fisher King]

Sure, some parts felt too neatly wrapped while there wasn't definitive closure on who killed Hanna. My only complaint is having to wait 14 months for the final season. Maybe there was too much time to become dislocated from the moments that initially pulled us in. But there were good moments this season. The poignant elements were still there. Maybe the bar was so high that expectations couldn't possibly be met without the viewers calling bullshit, and I seriously doubt Ray McKinnon would end his creation with anything HE thought was bullshit.

[justmehere]

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I also can't disagree with whichever reviewer said separating Daniel from the rest of the cast for almost the entire last season robbed episodes of a lot of those wonderfully intimate scenes of him struggling to reconnect with the people who had waited a half a lifetime for him.  

I totally see this point. I would have liked scenes of them all together more, but for everyone's recovery, I think the distance was necessary, that there was a major point in him not making those relationships his main priority. Even with re-opening the case, he mentioned that it would be nice to *visit* Paulie; he apparently wasn't interested in moving back. Not at this stage, anyway. Daniel really needed to find himself, away from his family's viewpoints and expectations (not to mention the town's). It was essential for his survival. He couldn't get insights from his family or at all in Paulie like he got from the halfway-house residents or from Chloe. His family is naturally biased and have no reference points for his experience, and the town couldn't look at him objectively.  With him gone and the pressure off of both sides, he could begin to see himself differently, and his family could begin to focus on themselves because there was nothing else they could do for him. He and they are struggling, and all are making sincere progress. But bless Jon for not giving up. He, as an outsider, could continue to push "the town" now that there was a certain relief from Daniel. That might not have been as easy (possible) if he'd been around.

 

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

it's a huge thing for him to have expectations or hope in the first place.  He probably hasn't since before death row and it signals a huge sea change from where he's been most of the series: feeling like he couldn't manage even the most mundane sort of living

Yes, absolutely. This is the biggest element in the finale, in my opinion. He had hope. I don't know whether he and Chloe will actually get together. What matters is that he had a vision of happiness, of what would make him happy, outside of anyone's expectations. What a huge change for him in, really, only a few months' time. It was a beautiful ending.

 

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

...or at least walk away with some concrete idea of forward movement for all of these characters.

 Here I disagree. I think we clearly got concrete ideas of forward movement for every single one of the characters. Well - of the family. Trey's life is about to get even worse. I was nervous through the whole episode that some other shoe would drop, but I think the tone was sufficiently hopeful, that there was enough momentum and resolution for everyone, that it's a given to me that Daniel will be exonerated. (Edit: I mean that tonally it was the implied direction for me, not that things could only go one way.)

My only slight disappointment was in Teddy's position. He showed such great growth and really tore himself open to do it, but he seems at the lowest point -- including having to follow terms of the agreement for publicly firing the rifle (insult to injury) to avoid jail -- after having already lost basically everything. It's his turning point and he'll move further onward and upward from here (gods, his simultaneous tenderness and heartbreak with Tawney, both in her getting a hug from Ted and in letting her talk to Daniel, after everything - not to mention the mutual apology between him and Daniel - just broke my heart); I just would have liked to see a little more visible happiness on the horizon for him than the muck he still needs to wade through before reaching the point most of the others already seem to have in sight. Still, he's changed a huge amount, and he'll get there.

Of course, my other disappointment is in not being able to spend more time with this family, but I absolutely see them on a positive road, and maybe that's the best place to leave them: looking forward.

(Side note: nodorothyparker: I find your comments very insightful and enjoyable and meant nothing negative by singling them out over others. They just seemed to distill the elements I wanted to comment on in this case.)

Edited December 16, 2016 by justmehere

[Syren]

Just finished it and will have more thoughts when I have time to type them out, but overall, I loved it.
Except the last couple of minutes. I thought we'd said goodbye to Chole so I wasn't thrilled to see her again. I know it was Daniel's daydream of the future and only shows us that he can daydream and hope now, not what actually happens.

I feel like everything was wrapped up, the murder, where everyone is heading, but it was done mostly organically and not forced like most shows have done.
It was very satisfying to me. I'm content and not as sad as I thought I'd be.

More later...

Edited December 16, 2016 by Syren

[kieyra]

23 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Sarah D. Bunting isn't a crackpot; she just isn't sure the final season of this uniquely great show added to its legend.

View the full article

I rarely say this, most likely because I'm not a professional television critic, but this review nailed all the problems I had, down to specific bits of clunky dialogue and exposition. 

I want to make it clear that I didn't need Daniel and Tawney to be romantic soulmates. But the show had built up their connection so deeply, and I expected them to remain friends. Tentative but optimistic friends. 

I found the resolutions too neat where I didn't need them to be (the closing Tire Store scene was as treacly as it gets for this show, and I didn't believe in Hanna's mother's sudden shift back to being a functional person). Then other things were vague when I needed clarity (just tell us what happened that night, it's fine). Chloe and her relationship with Daniel were so underdeveloped. I totally missed that their thing was even romantic for at least one entire episode. 

Ah well. Still an amazing series.

[rue721]

I found it underwhelming, and bizarrely long.

Honestly, I thought closing the tire store was a bummer. The saddest thing in the episode. And IMO one of the most interesting things about the episode was that nobody even mentioned Lester aside from Teddy, and that he asked the Sheriff of all people about him, rather than anyone who actually knew Lester well.

I think that Lester was meant to be Hanna's counterpoint, in a way, since they're both dead and mythologized and/or forgotten. But I'll have to think about that some more to have a real theory.

Agree with everyone saying that a lot plot threads -- ones that didn't need to be tied up at all -- were tied up too neatly. I didn't need to know exactly what was going to become of the ceramic mechanic man.

It's weird to me that Tawney showed up to pack up the store and for family dinner. How awkward must it have been for Teddy to invite her to that? Why would he, in the first place? She works nights -- so you're telling me that she took a day off for it?! I thought she was very out of place.

And then her standing there for what felt like forever, watching Teddy and Daniel's awkward and IMO pointless phone conversation, waiting to get on the phone herself -- and all to just spout some platitudes? I dunno. That actually makes me happy that she and Daniel didn't get a whole scene together, at least. That phone conversation was so nothing that a whole scene probably would have been horrible.

IMO this episode was trying way too hard (to be profound). Which is strange. IMO this show has a very good track record for not trying too hard.

The scene at the end when Daniel meets up with Chloe and the baby in the long grass reminded me of all those scenes in Gladiator when Maximus remembers his dead wife and child, and imagines them in the Elysian Fields. Which actually kind of makes me laugh, because it's such a goofy comparison.

Honestly, I wish that we had gotten something of a flash forward.

This episode just felt so much clunkier than usual. I guess I'm spoiled. This season actually had a lot of really strong episodes IMO. And I do think that we needed a season of Daniel in the final stage of his transition, out of not just prison, but out of Paulie, and settling into his own identity/life. But this particular episode just didn't work IMO, especially as a finale, but also just in general.

One other little thing that I didn't like -- that the Sheriff rattled off a bunch of embarrassing but probably healthy things that Teddy had to do, but we didn't get to see Teddy do any of them. I would rather have had even a short scene of Teddy leaving an AA meeting or anger management class or whatever else he had to do, just to *see* him being uncomfortable and taking his medicine...rather than hearing about the literal things that he had to do from the Sheriff (not even from Teddy himself). I dunno, I think this whole episode was not enough show and too much tell. Eh.

OK, end of rant ;) It's my own fault, I think my expectations were too high. Opposite problem from Daniel, I guess ;)

[Stella]

8 hours ago, Kathemy said:

If this had been a great finale we would all have known it.

This.

It left me feeling strangely empty. I love the show dearly and I am grateful for the final season even though somehow it never felt fully in sync with the others. I will not rant on Chloe again other than I feel the character did not feel very true to any previous impulse of the show.

I liked that there was a certain amount of closure yet somehow it felt forced.

48 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I want to make it clear that I didn't need Daniel and Tawney to be romantic soulmates. But the show had built up their connection so deeply, and I expected them to remain friends. Tentative but optimistic friends. 

Agree. Tawney is a character that I basically have no experiential connection to - not being at all religious. The show conveyed her purity of belief in a simple yet complex way that I could understand and admire. And her connection with Daniel was amazing, moving and I felt that a continued friendship between them would be important.

58 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I totally missed that their thing was even romantic for at least one entire episode. 

Same.

[justmehere]

8 hours ago, Kathemy said:

If this had been a great finale we would all have known it.

Some of us did. I've seen very positive reactions on other boards and sites. Neither view invalidates the other.

[nodorothyparker]

14 hours ago, justmehere said:

I totally see this point. I would have liked scenes of them all together more, but for everyone's recovery, I think the distance was necessary, that there was a major point in him not making those relationships his main priority. Even with re-opening the case, he mentioned that it would be nice to *visit* Paulie; he apparently wasn't interested in moving back. Not at this stage, anyway. Daniel really needed to find himself, away from his family's viewpoints and expectations (not to mention the town's). It was essential for his survival. He couldn't get insights from his family or at all in Paulie like he got from the halfway-house residents or from Chloe. His family is naturally biased and have no reference points for his experience, and the town couldn't look at him objectively.  With him gone and the pressure off of both sides, he could begin to see himself differently, and his family could begin to focus on themselves because there was nothing else they could do for him. He and they are struggling, and all are making sincere progress. But bless Jon for not giving up. He, as an outsider, could continue to push "the town" now that there was a certain relief from Daniel. That might not have been as easy (possible) if he'd been around.

Oh, I don't disagree with this at all.  I can't remember in which episode thread we talked about it, but I did say that I thought for the character that moving to Nashville was a very good thing largely for the reasons you stated.   I think if the plea deal hadn't forced the issue Daniel might have drifted indefinitely from his mother's house to Amantha's couch to whoever's never really progressing much.  Amantha and Janet especially can't really help wanting to shelter and coddle him and in the long run that really wouldn't have been good for him or them.  Barring a public arrest of another suspect, in Paulie he's always going to be Daniel Holden, that guy who murdered that girl and then got out.  The resources he needs also don't seem to be there.  

None of this however changes the fact that by separating Daniel from the rest of the cast for the entire last season, it sometimes felt like there were two separate shows happening.  A lot of shows have trouble pulling off this concept without the separate locales and the characters in them seeming very disconnected.  And Daniel has largely felt very disconnected from the rest of the family, which while probably necessary for him doesn't change how we as viewers might feel about it.  I know I was really disappointed when Amantha didn't tag along on Jon's trip to Nashville to see Daniel because we haven't seen them together all season.  I've really enjoyed the actors' very believable sibling chemistry, and so much of Amantha's story the first two seasons was about how very hard she worked on Daniel's behalf and how much of herself she had sacrificed along the way.  Yet when the announcement came validating everything she had done, there was no sharing it for them in any meaningful way.  She's still in Paulie and he still can't come home.  A phone call about mostly unrelated things just wasn't the same thing.  

I admit I may be a little bitter here that Amantha's ending is apparently managing the dollar store and dating a guy from high school we met maybe three episodes ago in the same small town.  I didn't realize how badly I wanted more for her, whether reconciling with Jon or not, until I realized that's where they were leaving her. 

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(Side note: nodorothyparker: I find your comments very insightful and enjoyable and meant nothing negative by singling them out over others. They just seemed to distill the elements I wanted to comment on in this case.)

I appreciate the compliment.  Thank you.

[candall]

Comparison to Six Feet Under?  That was a show where big, big things happened every week and it had a big, big ending.  This was a quiet show with a quiet ending.

Something I liked:   the fifteen cent raise.  Sometimes the good things trickle in, in dribs and drabs.  The whole episode had some sort of theme of teeny little increments of progress that might seem insignificant, but are still notable in the sense of moving forward.  (I'm still thinking about the boss asking whether Daniel liked him and how that fits in--the question feels odd and irrelevant to the act of the salary increase, but also feels significant to the subtext, in some way I haven't pinned down.  Where's my American lit professor when I need him?)

Something I didn't like:   although we know this isn't the case, in Daniel's place--and in spite of the tentative mutual apology--I would have inferred that Teddy handing the phone to Tawney was his way of letting me know "Haha, the man she's 18 inches away from is ME, not you.  I win."  I was hoping Tawney would mention she was on her way to Doctors Without Borders, and so indicate their juncture had affected her as well as him, that she wasn't back to wifey, but negatory on that.  : (

 

It's true the satisfaction of the end scene depends on whether you liked Chloe. (I did, so I was happy.)  But even as a representation that Daniel's healed enough to daydream, to "hope"--what would have been a better illustration?  Scribbling 'The End' as he finishes his manuscript?   Liking Chloe was the first thing he did that he didn't agonize over--it's natural that's where he'd be most comfortable projecting.

[Bcharmer]

29 minutes ago, candall said:

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Bcharmer
double post

[Bcharmer]

7 hours ago, candall said:

Comparison to Six Feet Under?  That was a show where big, big things happened every week and it had a big, big ending.  This was a quiet show with a quiet ending.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was obsessed with SFU. I've seen each episode several times. There may have been big things about it, but there were also many, many quiet things about it as well. It was mostly about family, and the way the characters related to each other, the dreamy-ness of many of its scenes, the profoundness, the humanity, the emotionality of it, and its dark humor, that I find similar between the two. They both made me *feel* something... where many shows do not.  Few shows will get me to choke up like that. They both felt very real to me, and I mourned the ending of both of them...  I was sad saying goodbye to characters I had come to care about.  Not sure if that's what others meant when they compared the two, but that's what I meant. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Bcharmer

[AuntiePam]

36 minutes ago, candall said:

Something I liked:   the fifteen cent raise.  Sometimes the good things trickle in, in dribs and drabs.  The whole episode had some sort of theme of teeny little increments of progress that might seem insignificant, but are still notable in the sense of moving forward.  (I'm still thinking about the boss asking whether Daniel liked him and how that fits in--the question feels odd and irrelevant to the act of the salary increase, but also feels significant to the subtext, in some way I haven't pinned down.  Where's my American lit professor when I need him?)

I read somewhere -- maybe a comment at the AV Club -- that Daniel's boss was hitting on him.  I didn't get that vibe at all.  What I got was the boss being confused about Daniel in general, that he never got the kind of feedback from Daniel that he might get from less-restrained employees.  The way the boss handled it -- "Daniel, I need to see you in my office" -- in a stern tone.  Most employees would be expecting bad news and would have been all smiles and laughter after hearing the good news.  But Daniel was just Daniel.  Boss didn't get the reaction he expected.

[tennisgurl]

I keep trying to figure out how I feel about this ending, and I think I like it that way. I never thought we were going to get closure on what will happen with Daniel and his family, or find out who really killed Hannah, and I think thats kind of the point. There are no easy answers in life, and no happily ever after, in that life keeps going, and the only ending is the big ending. The best thing you can hope for (especially after everything that these characters have been through) is cautious optimism. As for the death of Hannah, its like Amantha said. Even if they do find out what really happened and exonerate Daniel, it wont rectify what happened, it can only try to clean up with whole mess as best as possible. That being said, I did want to see Daniel get officially exonerated. But it seems like now everyone knows that he probably didn't do it, I can deal with that. 

I do think it was a mistake to move Daniel from his family, but it did lead to the other family members getting more of their own plots and getting to interact with each other. And, in reality, I wouldn't mind Daniel leaving his hometown at all by the end of the show, even if he wasn't kicked out of Georgia. Even now that people seem to know he really didn't do it, there is WAY too much baggage there. 

I might have mixed feeling on some aspects of this season, but I loved it all the same. Just a lovely story about average small town people and the complicated lives they lead, about the ideas of justice and redemption, and finding the beauty in the everyday. Its been a great time, and I cant wait to see what everyone involved will do next. 

[Armchair Critic]

1 hour ago, candall said:

I was hoping Tawney would mention she was on her way to Doctors Without Borders, and so indicate their juncture had affected her as well as him, that she wasn't back to wifey, but negatory on that.

I am assuming that Janet or Amantha probably already told Daniel about Tawney and Teddy's divorce.

[peeayebee]

3 hours ago, candall said:

Something I liked:   the fifteen cent raise.  Sometimes the good things trickle in, in dribs and drabs.  The whole episode had some sort of theme of teeny little increments of progress that might seem insignificant, but are still notable in the sense of moving forward. 

Good observation. It reminds me of a line from Pickles: Life is good today. One step at a time.

 

Quote

(I'm still thinking about the boss asking whether Daniel liked him and how that fits in--the question feels odd and irrelevant to the act of the salary increase, but also feels significant to the subtext, in some way I haven't pinned down.  Where's my American lit professor when I need him?)

Like someone else here said, I think the boss just found Daniel to be inscrutable. Daniel didn't act or react like anyone else he knew. I found that whole exchange pretty funny. "Should I be thinking about you?"

 

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It's true the satisfaction of the end scene depends on whether you liked Chloe. (I did, so I was happy.)  But even as a representation that Daniel's healed enough to daydream, to "hope"--what would have been a better illustration?  Scribbling 'The End' as he finishes his manuscript?   Liking Chloe was the first thing he did that he didn't agonize over--it's natural that's where he'd be most comfortable projecting.

I didn't dislike Chloe as some others did, so this daydream didn't bother me. It was all golden light and idealized, which makes perfect sense for a daydream. BTW, I absolutely loved when Daniel and the baby are smiling at each other. 

So anyway, I thought this was a lovely finale. We see all the good people emerging from this nightmare in much better shape than at the beginning of the series. People have healed. It's a very positive ending. Of course we don't know what the outcome of the new investigation will be. We don't know for certain who done it, but that was never what this show was about. It was how such a tragedy affects everyone. I'm very pleased that the show didn't have the real murderer arrested or whatever. That would have felt like a different show. 

My favorite scene was in Hanna's bedroom with Janet and Judy. The actress playing Judy was fantastic. I'm still a little puzzled by her and Bobby's change of attitude, but I can't remember stuff from previous seasons very well.

Ted -- or Theodore -- and Janet look a lot happier together. That was nice to see.

It was also nice seeing Teddy being sincerely pleasant and well-adjusted.

And Daniel. He's going to be ok. That's good.

[nodorothyparker]

2 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I read somewhere -- maybe a comment at the AV Club -- that Daniel's boss was hitting on him.  I didn't get that vibe at all.  What I got was the boss being confused about Daniel in general, that he never got the kind of feedback from Daniel that he might get from less-restrained employees.  The way the boss handled it -- "Daniel, I need to see you in my office" -- in a stern tone.  Most employees would be expecting bad news and would have been all smiles and laughter after hearing the good news.  But Daniel was just Daniel.  Boss didn't get the reaction he expected.

I read it the same way you did.  It was a small thing that seemed fairly extraneous to me until I saw another interpretation somewhere that also might have been the AV Club although I can't remember for sure.

For the past 20 years, Daniel's been under the thumb of authority figures who didn't have to care at all what he thought of them and had a fair amount of leeway in how they treated him while he had no recourse.  Now he's being called into the office in what might be considered an ominous tone only to be told no, it's good news.  Not big good news but still a small bit of good news that indicates they think he's doing a good job, which Daniel acknowledges but says nothing else.  Daniel can be kind of hard to read on a good day, and since the guy seems kind of young and inexperienced as a boss he just comes out and asks.  It's very likely the first time an authority figure has ever bothered to ask him what he thinks about anything.  And it did end up being kind of weird for both them, which I liked that they both acknowledged.

I feel like I missed what exactly prompted the shift in thinking for Judy and Bobby Dean too.  Was it Bobby getting to know Jared?  Bobby finally coming clean about what George told him?  I'm not sure.

[AuntiePam]

23 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I feel like I missed what exactly prompted the shift in thinking for Judy and Bobby Dean too.  Was it Bobby getting to know Jared?  Bobby finally coming clean about what George told him?  I'm not sure.

George's death and Trey's arrest might have been the catalyst  for Judy and Bobby, and for the rest of the town as well  None of them seemed too shocked at Person's announcement.  It's easy to change your mind when you're not bucking the crowd.

Trey probably told anyone who would listen about Chris Nelms and the bite on his hand.  He was just a motor-mouth there at the end with Daggett.  Let him talk a bit more and we'll know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried.

I did wish Janet would have gently suggested to Judy that she pay some attention to her living child, but that's not the kind of thing this show does.  The responses so often are "I understand" and "Of course", like they're afraid of confrontation, or tired of fighting, or are too tired to care.

[nodorothyparker]

Well, Janet did basically admit that she did the same thing where her remaining child was concerned in her conversation with Amantha.  

[NeenerNeener]

I liked this finale, mainly because Daniel lived through it. I fully expected him to be murdered because Christ figures in dramas exist to be sacrificed. 

[rue721]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I feel like I missed what exactly prompted the shift in thinking for Judy and Bobby Dean too.  Was it Bobby getting to know Jared?  Bobby finally coming clean about what George told him?  I'm not sure.

I think the catalyst for the change was Bobby beating up Daniel, and Daniel refusing to name him as the culprit. I don't think that Bobby expected to feel so bad about beating up Daniel, and I don't think that he expected Daniel to forgive him and to essentially give him a second chance. IMO it prompted a lot of soul searching and a lot of change for him.

I think Judy's shift in thinking was meant to have been spurred on by Bobby's. But TBH I thought her lucidity in this episode was kind of unbelievable.

[FictionIsntReal]

I'm puzzled by some TV critics, who talk about the show being ambiguous about Daniel's guilt. While it started out that way, by the end it was clearly pointing away from him and toward Chris. I see that some commenters were disappointed that it wasn't more explicit about what really happened or what's going to happen to these characters, but this is really as much as you can expect (and more than I had expected) from this show.

Regarding Bobby & Judy Dean, the sheriff came by to tell them about new developments in the case.

Edited December 17, 2016 by FictionIsntReal
Added note about the Dean family

[vixenbynight]

Notdorothyparker wrote:

"Well, Janet did basically admit that she did the same thing where her remaining child was concerned in her conversation with Amantha."

Janet understood exactly how and why Judy let herself be trapped in the "comfort and sadness" of keeping Hanna's room the way that she had it decades after her death. Janet had Amantha, who became a warrior for her and their family, Ted fell in love with her, brought his son Teddy into their blended lives and they both had another son to raise. Judy didn't have those things to focus on and sadly, her living child Bobby was going through his sadness and anger over the loss of his sister and the friendship he had with one of the guys, that may be ultimately revealed to be Hanna's killer.

Rue721 wrote:

"I think Judy's shift in thinking was meant to have been spurred on by Bobby's. But TBH I thought her lucidity in this episode was kind of unbelievable."

I don't think that Judy's lucidity was unbelievable at all. She knows that nothing is ever going to bring back the daughter that was taken from her decades ago. She acknowledges that she's kept herself trapped in the "comfort and sadness" of holding onto Hanna's room. She knows that Bobby is desperately trying to help Judy and himself to move past all that hurt, because now with the case being opened up again, they'll have to experience all the horrible details and find the strength to survive it.

I like that she reached out to the one person that could understand exactly what Judy has felt and what she will probably have to face in the future.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I thought Hannah's room was Judy's death row cell. At one point, Daniel found comfort and sadness in the memories of his windowless box. He called it a cocoon at the end of S3. Judy is safe in her cocoon, but she is also stagnating and she knows it.

This wasn't my favorite episode of the series but it had some of my favorite moments. Kerwin, the drive, his belief in Daniel, recounting how all the inmates are one on an execution day. Ripped my heart out. Again.

Also, "expectations are the trickier cousin of hope"? OMFG. I'm gonna miss the writing most of all.

Edited December 18, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[peeayebee]

36 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I thought Hannah's room was Judy's death row cell.

I hadn't thought of that. Wow. So true. That's the prison she chooses to live in, full of sadness and comfort.

 

Quote

Also, "expectations are the trickier cousin of hope"? OMFG. I'm gonna miss the writing most of all.

I can't remember any now, but so many lines were just poetic. Yes, the writing is superb. I'll look forward to McKinnon's next project.

[Syren]

And so it ends.

I didn't expect to get so many beautiful little moments but I should've had more faith in McKinnon and company. So much to love in just about every minute of this finale.
A list that's not complete because I'd just write down almost everything that did and didn't happen:

"You're my hero, young lady."
Daniel's dad was loquacious while Daniel speaks the barest minimum of words.
Teddy taking his medicine gladly, hopefully because he realizes anger management might be good for him.
"We're giving you a raise."
"Your letters now are special because I'm the only one who reads them." That entire call was just lovely, I thought.
Jon Stern, being eternally badass in the way that matters in the real world: by being a good man willing to fight for what's right. His scene with Daniel was wonderful. I wish he and Amantha would work it out but oddly, she seems to be okay with where her life is right now so I'm okay with it as well.
"It felt like we were all being taken to our date with the executioner." Just chills in this scene and its description of Kerwin's last day. How many writers would've even thought of this perspective?
KERWIN! Daniel and Kerwin taking a fictional drive.  "Because I know ya."
Judy Dean and Janet was the real surprise of the finale for me. Did not expect that scene and was once again amazed at the casting on this show. Judy may never escape her "cell" (great observation, The Mighty Peanut!) but I feel like she might, once the real killer is prosecuted.
And I absolutely feel the show was telling us that Chris did it and was going down for it.
Sondra looking right out at us at the end of the presser and telling us her office would do everything to rectify Daniel's situation were he proved innocent was proof to me that he would be.
Melvin! Always glad to see Melvin.
Daniel enjoying his friends' company and waiting to talk to Janet later.
Daniel smiling. More than once.
"I'm cautiously optimistic."

As for me, I'm content. Their lives are going to go on without me watching and worrying about them and I feel like I can let go of Paulie and Daniel with no sadness, just a little wistfulness, which is really wonderful and a sign of great writing, in my opinion.
Tied up loose ends, but not too tight and not in a pretty bow. A little vague here and there, a little messy, a little disappointment, just like real lives.

Aden Young was a wonder to watch and McKinnon's writing was just sublime. I was a fan of his when he played the preacher on Deadwood but who knew how talented he really was when he switched to behind the camera. I cannot wait for what he gives us next.
All the actors were pretty much spot on. Again, the casting was possibly the best I've seen. I hope to see all these actors in long and successful careers.
I wish I could personally thank every single person who brought this show to life.
It was poetry on screen and I'm so glad it exists. So glad to have been along for the ride of Daniel's journey.

And so glad to have had you wonderful people to talk with about it. Your insights and comments enhanced my viewing experience every week. It has been a real pleasure.
Thank y'all.


 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Syren

[Eeksquire]

Quote

As for me, I'm content. Their lives are going to go on without me watching and worrying about them and I feel like I can let go of Paulie and Daniel with no sadness, just a little wistfulness, which is really wonderful and a sign of great writing, in my opinion.
Tied up loose ends, but not too tight and certainly not in a pretty bow. A little vague here and there, a little messy, a little disappointment, just like real lives.

This better sums up my feelings about the finale than anything else.  There were parts that were a little "on the nose" compared to the rest of the series, but all in all, I liked the way it ended.

I think the plot point that I appreciated most is that, even if Chris and Trey can't be tried for rape because of the statute of limitations, it's likely that everyone will know about it, one way or another, when the results of the investigation come out.  It may not be justice in the legal sense of the word, but there's no doubt that it will turn their world's upside down, which is deserved, even if it can't compare to how much Daniel's life was harmed.

[The Mighty Peanut]

@Syren, when I first started watching Rectify I found myself falling I'm a morbid but fascinating capital punishment rabbit hole. I'm positive the writers watched some of the same documentaries I did and that's where they got some of their inspiration/perspective.

I don't remember hearing anything about footsteps, but one thing all the death rows throughout the US had in common was that they are all virtually silent on execution days (which is saying something as prisons are notoriously loud). Inmates with execution dates are housed in a separate "death watch" section and its small enough that they can hear people being shackled and taken from their cell for the last time. Everyone is seeing their own future. When an execution is about to begin the inmates all bang their cell doors as a show of respect. 

I got the feeling Death Row in reality is a lot like the one on TV. You have your Wendalls whose crimes make you want to personally give them a lethal injection. You have your Kerwins who had great potential that was wasted because they killed innocent people due to getting mixed up in gang/drug bullshit. And in rare cases you have your Daniels who aren't even guilty. 

I highly recommend this episode of 48 hours. It's about a guy who was sentenced to death for the murder of six kids and an elderly woman; he was fully exonerated and paid something like 1.7 million dollars by the state of Texas in compensation. He was in jail for close to 20 years and had two execution dates (stayed due to appeals): 

Edited December 18, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut