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High Profile Scientologists: Tom, Travolta, and More!

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On 12/25/2016 at 10:38 AM, hisbunkie said:

What's an interesting common thread among most of these members is how little formal education they have.  Leah's show makes the point that children of members aren't required to attend school, how do they get away with that? 

Lack of a formal education makes it even more difficult when they leave the cult as adults because they can't get jobs.

BTW- Katie's father is a pretty successful attorney. 

I found it pretty weird that Tom told Oprah he called Katie "Katherine". SHUT UP TOM!

I'm sure they are using the religious exemption to mandatory education.

http://education.findlaw.com/education-options/statutory-exemptions-to-compulsory-education.html

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6 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

And count me in as someone who despised the whole "She shall now be known as KATE!" crap from Cruise.  I adore the Royal Family and it still bugs me that Prince William publicly refers to Kate as "Catherine" most of the time.  I certainly don't think he's doing it to be a controlling bastard like Tom, but still.

All I can say is, my name is Catherine and if people called me Kate I would be livid. Maybe that's why he calls her Catherine.

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I appreciate all these stories about Tom and John.  This performance by Tom C. has always blown be away. I'm not sure why.  It's just VERY bizarre to me.  I'm tying to figure out if something like that has to get COS approval.  Check out Katie in the audience.  Especially in the end, she is smiling and clapping wildly.  Hmmmmm........It did bring the house down.  lol 

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6 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

I

And count me in as someone who despised the whole "She shall now be known as KATE!" crap from Cruise.  I adore the Royal Family and it still bugs me that Prince William publicly refers to Kate as "Catherine" most of the time.  I certainly don't think he's doing it to be a controlling bastard like Tom, but still.

I think since becoming a Duchess, Catherine has to go by her formal name publicly per royalty "rules". They probably call each Kate and Billy in private. :) Where as Tom Cruise referred to Katie Holmes as Kate publicly and privately because he's a controlling douche! 

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On 12/19/2016 at 4:12 PM, spiderpig said:

I'd be right behind you in line for Katie's book.  Part of Tommy's divorce settlements must be the demand for absolute silence on anything regarding the marriages - at least for Nicole and Katie.  I guess he was burned by Mimi Rogers.  Remember her (Playboy, I think) interview where she said Tommy lived like a monk and wanted to keep his instrument pure?   Have to find that quote.  OK, here it is from an old Entertainment Weekly item:

The couple was childless, and rumors about Cruise’s fertility ran rampant. It didn’t help when Rogers joked in a 1993 Playboy interview that ”Tom was seriously thinking of becoming a monk…he thought he had to be celibate to maintain the purity of his instrument.” Her own instrument, she added, ”needed tuning.”

(The thing is, she probably wasn't joking.)

I remember reading there is speculation that Katie signed a lot of clauses in her divorce about her behavior post divorce.  One of the clauses that someone mentioned was that she could not publicly date anyone for 5 years.  It's been wildly speculated that she has been dating Jamie Foxx for years, but that is why she never goes anywhere in public with him or ever speaks about a relationship with him.  That could just be TMZ malarkey, but it makes ya go hmm....

On 12/20/2016 at 0:54 AM, spiderpig said:

Interesting about these auditions for Tommy's public consort.  Before they settled on Katie, CO$ reportedly pursued Jennifer Garner, who wanted nothing to do with him.  Then they invited Scarlett Johanssen to a fancy "private" dinner with Tommy, which was to be followed by an auditing in an adjoining room.  Once she realized the set-up, she bolted.

Didn't Nazani, who was already a "church" member, do something in the staged courtship that displeased The Clams and out she went?

smh...

I remember reading an article saying they took a look at Penelope Cruz when Cruise was briefly dating her, but it was decided that she would not bend to Scientology and they moved on to interviewing other candidates.  I think Katie was the perfect choice for the Church.  She saw Cruise as that glowing celebrity too....she was young and probably easy to control.  I don't think they ever thought she get all cloak and dagger and actually get her and her daughter out of there.  Joey Potter has more moxie than they bargained for!

On 12/26/2016 at 3:43 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I don't know about Kirstie's sweetness.  She's always been aggressive and bitchy.  There's the story of how she met her husband.  He's was having dinner with another woman, and Kirstie brazenly approached them and told the woman he would be coming home with her.  I thought she was pretty nasty about mocking Shelley Long when she replaced her on Cheers.  Kirstie is very loud and screechy about defending her "religion", screaming about how unfair it was, and they wouldn't treat Jews this way.  Then there's the fact that she dumped good friend Maks Chmerkovskiy because HIS friend was Leah's dance partner on Dancing with the Stars.  I find her very willfully blind.

There's also Kirstie's weird story about how CO$ got her off cocaine.   She claimed she was a cocaine addict because of a dental experience when she was a child.  Apparently, she had a dental procedure in which she received cocaine hydrochloride as a topical anesthetic.  At some point her beloved grandfather comforted her.  Therefore, she became a coke addict because she loved her grandpa.  So CO$ miraculously cured her.  Yet they can't do a damn thing about the weight struggle she's had for decades.  A total lack of autonomy or responsibility.  The only thing I remotely respect her for, is keeping her children out of the public eye.  But that may have been her ex's choice, because he's a private person.

Kirstie Alley can be a downright cold hearted bitch.  Follow that woman on twitter and wowza.  She's a piece of work.  

And hell to the yeah about her weight issues.  How has Scientology not been able to cure her of her food addiction?  

I also wonder about Kelly Preston and how she justifies the Scientology stance as well.  She has had two children with significant delays, so if she is such a good Scientologist....how does that happen?  I have heard she is much more into it than John is and you would think it would make her question all she knows and believes, etc.  Or did those kids suffer because they weren't able to advance enough into Scientology yet, so their brains weren't able to heal themselves like Tommy's brain healed him of dyslexia.  

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2 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

 She saw Cruise as that glowing celebrity too....she was young and probably easy to control.  I don't think they ever thought she get all cloak and dagger and actually get her and her daughter out of there.  Joey Potter has more moxie than they bargained for!

Call me a cynic but I hugely doubt that Katie Holmes was star struck and went into that marriage as anything other than a business deal.  I think she thought it would help her career which was stalled at generally well regarded indie movie star.

With the marriage, the career she used to have fizzled away.  Then she realized how bad a deal it was and how damaging to her child it was who was now a person rather than an idea and she wasn't getting anything out of it so she bailed with some sort of settlement which probably has her set for life.

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Regarding the stories of many Scientology staff members being sent to work for Cruise to clean his house, care for his children, be his personal assistants, repair his motorcycles, etc. -- doesn't the man have enough money to hire someone to install pavers in his stupid driveway? Gawd.

Scientology gives public awards to people who have donated millions. But I've never see any photos of Cruise getting one. Or Travolta. Do they donate privately? Tony Ortega's site has an article that says Cruise was recognized in 2005 for giving $2.5M, but hasn't been mentioned since.

Would Miscavige the Money Hungry Troll let Cruise freeload these days because of his PR worth?

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23 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Regarding the stories of many Scientology staff members being sent to work for Cruise to clean his house, care for his children, be his personal assistants, repair his motorcycles, etc. -- doesn't the man have enough money to hire someone to install pavers in his stupid driveway? Gawd.

Scientology gives public awards to people who have donated millions. But I've never see any photos of Cruise getting one. Or Travolta. Do they donate privately? Tony Ortega's site has an article that says Cruise was recognized in 2005 for giving $2.5M, but hasn't been mentioned since.

Would Miscavige the Money Hungry Troll let Cruise freeload these days because of his PR worth?

The way I understand the sea org staff came to work for Tom was that he told Miscavige he admired how things were done in his home and asked how he got his staff to do things exactly how he (*Miss Cabbage, that is) liked them.  Next thing you know there's customized airplane hangars, burl pens, and many a ride has been pimped out by almost slaves.   Man, it can't be said enough:  Tom Cruise KNOWS what's happening to those poor people.  He's just a diminutive monster with zero conscience and does not care.  I loathe that little pipsqueak....and he has a tooth dead center in his face and it bugs me sooooooooooooo baaaaaaaaad.

*not a typo, that's what I call him cause I know he'd just hate it

Now that I think about it, what better way to manipulate/control/spy on Tom could he have given David?  No wonder DM jumped on it so quickly!

Edited by bubbly
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On 12/26/2016 at 0:46 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I have always liked John T. too!  To me, he grew as an actor, but, I also liked him as a person or what he put out there as himself.  His connection with COS is also quite bizarre to me.  I wish I knew more.  

I remember hearing once that it was when Travolta was making The Devil's Rain that he was first introduced to Scientology.  He had a bad cold or some illness like that and actress Joan Prather taught him how he could cure himself with Scientology. 

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30 minutes ago, Josette said:

I remember hearing once that it was when Travolta was making The Devil's Rain that he was first introduced to Scientology.  He had a bad cold or some illness like that and actress Joan Prather taught him how he could cure himself with Scientology. 

Oh my.....well...do they also believe in Jesus Christ? I mean, can you still be Catholic or Jewish and be a member of the COS?

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For better or worse Tom Cruise is an amazing actor but even he has done some bombs.  However with the Sea Orgs backing him and being required to watch his movies and review them favorably even his worst movie comes off looking like an academy award winning gem.  Tommy has zero reason for even looking sideways at Miscavige.   

Hiring him for a movie you are unsure of at least guarantees you a captive audience.

Its actually kinda fun to read reviews of some of his bad movies that more then likely came from Sea Org members.   

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I saw a very brief clip of Tom Cruise introducing Miscavige at one of the COS gatherings, and watching Cruise clap for Miscavige was disturbing in and of itself...Cruise was slamming his hands together in bone-shattering applause while staring at Miscavige with a look of intense adoration.  So bizarre.

Someday, Katie will (hopefully) write that book and she will tell us everything we wanted to know about her marriage to Cruise.  What I really wonder about is how her parents felt about Cruise, when did they know Katie was way in over her head, and how terrified they were as they began the process of extricating her from his grip?  Did her parents know before she married Tom that something was amiss?  Did they try to talk her out of it?  If so, was Tom encouraging her to disconnect from them?  There had to have been so many red flags, yes?

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2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

For better or worse Tom Cruise is an amazing actor but even he has done some bombs.  However with the Sea Orgs backing him and being required to watch his movies and review them favorably even his worst movie comes off looking like an academy award winning gem.  Tommy has zero reason for even looking sideways at Miscavige.   

Hiring him for a movie you are unsure of at least guarantees you a captive audience.

Its actually kinda fun to read reviews of some of his bad movies that more then likely came from Sea Org members.   

I guess this is a case of mileage varying - I think that TC in the vast majority of his roles is significantly less than stellar.  I can't think of a role I've seen him in where I thought "Wow, he's good!"

An interesting note about TC, in his earlier days, specifically during the filming of Taps, from IMDb (yes, I know: take with a grain of salt):

Quote

Prior to the production of the film, the key actors -Timothy Hutton, Sean Penn, Tom Cruise and others - were required to participate in a 45-day-long period of orientation with the students of Valley Forge Military Academy. They were given uniforms, borrowed from their real life counterparts at the school and given authentic military haircuts. They slept in campus barracks and were subjected to the same rigors and hardship that all Valley Forge cadets went through. While most of the actors enjoyed and excelled at their orientation, Cruise opted to leave the training for the comforts of a nearby hotel until filming began.

 

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I think Cruise is basically a psychopath, so I do kind of revel in the joy that he has done movies and had roles that were nominated for an Oscar, but always been denied the prize.  It seems like an award he is desperate to put on his mantle.  How come he hasn't been able to use his ever so awesome Scientology powers to get that done, oh Tommy boy!!!  

Edited by shelley1005
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12 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

I think Cruise is basically a psychopath, so I do kind of revel in the joy that he has done movies and had roles that were nominated for an Oscar, but always been denied the prize.  It seems like an award he is desperate to put on his mantle.  How come he hasn't been able to use his ever so awesome Scientology powers to get that done, oh Tommy boy!!!  

Scientology can put you on the ballot but they can't make you drink?

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56 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I saw a very brief clip of Tom Cruise introducing Miscavige at one of the COS gatherings, and watching Cruise clap for Miscavige was disturbing in and of itself...Cruise was slamming his hands together in bone-shattering applause while staring at Miscavige with a look of intense adoration.  So bizarre.

Someday, Katie will (hopefully) write that book and she will tell us everything we wanted to know about her marriage to Cruise.  What I really wonder about is how her parents felt about Cruise, when did they know Katie was way in over her head, and how terrified they were as they began the process of extricating her from his grip?  Did her parents know before she married Tom that something was amiss?  Did they try to talk her out of it?  If so, was Tom encouraging her to disconnect from them?  There had to have been so many red flags, yes?

Her father knew enough to write a prenup that filled 15  (forgotten exact number)  banker boxes.  

That clapping was creepy. Earlier in that video, Tom greeting David when callled on stage to accept his metal, was worse.  Tom was taking things so seriously and David only saw money, the reason Tom got the stupid made up metal in the first place!  

He is a megalomaniac and cannot see outside of his own assumed power.  

http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/m/megalomania/symptoms.htm 

Edited by wings707
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I remember reading somewhere that Katie Holmes had to use burner phones to contact her divorce lawyers. Now, you know it's bad when planning to file divorce from your spouse has to conducted like an episode of The Wire!

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Oh wow, speaking of "Taps," I was kind of obsessed with that movie when it first came out, and I remember Tom Cruise being a major reason why.  I haven't seen the movie in years, but I vividly remember his very intense and frightening performance as a cadet who goes off the rails...putting his machine gun in an open window and shooting randomly, while yelling "it's beautiful, man!!"

I hope I can sleep tonight.

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3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I saw a very brief clip of Tom Cruise introducing Miscavige at one of the COS gatherings, and watching Cruise clap for Miscavige was disturbing in and of itself...Cruise was slamming his hands together in bone-shattering applause while staring at Miscavige with a look of intense adoration.  So bizarre.

Someday, Katie will (hopefully) write that book and she will tell us everything we wanted to know about her marriage to Cruise.  What I really wonder about is how her parents felt about Cruise, when did they know Katie was way in over her head, and how terrified they were as they began the process of extricating her from his grip?  Did her parents know before she married Tom that something was amiss?  Did they try to talk her out of it?  If so, was Tom encouraging her to disconnect from them?  There had to have been so many red flags, yes?

I'm pretty sure we will never get that book. From what I know she signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement and can never talk about Scientology and her experiences publicly, she was more then happy to do it so that she got what she wanted, which was fully custody of Suri. She also gave up all monies that she was entitled to according to their prenuptial agreement for custody of Suri. All he pays her is Child Support.  They weren't joking around, it was all done and settled within a few weeks. 

My guess is she would of talked if he didn't agree to her terms. 

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Vielen Dank, @Dirndl ! Ich werde es morgen sehen ! (hoping that my German is not too rotten, lol !)

EDIT : presently watching now. Super interesting, but hard to follow, as if my English is better than my German, "my" language, is French, so it's really challenging for my brain to chose his preferred language, between the verbal German, and the written English, because I can't directly "switch" from German to English without using the French in-between

#brainTraining

Edited by Diane Mars · Reason: EDIT #2 : watched, @Dirndl. A good one. Of course, a lot of shortcuts, but's a good one.
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1 hour ago, Dirndl said:

As a German I find this show and this discussion really fascinating. Excuse me if I jump in here and answer this question. Germany doesn't acknowledge Scientology as a religion but as a commercial enterprise and treats it accordingly.

As a fact in my state (Bavaria) everyone who wants to work in the public sector has to answer the following questions:

So, if you write "yes" on any of these questions you are deemed unsuitable for such a job. I had to answer these questions when I worked for a pension fund and later as a teacher at public schools.

Scientology is also a topic in our obligatory school curriculum. In the religion education classes students learn about the danger of cults and Scientology is taken as an example. It's fascinating for me because I know not one German celebrity who is a Scientologist. It's considered a dangerous cult here and still Tom Cruise gets lots of positive attention, awards and acclaim.

BTW there is a really good German movie about Scientology based on a true story. It's called "Until nothing remains" (Bis nichts mehr bleibt) and you can watch it on youtube with English subtitles.

Thank you for this information, and yay Germany for calling out a dangerous cult as a dangerous cult.

US (wimp) government, please take note.

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On 12/19/2016 at 3:12 PM, spiderpig said:

I'd be right behind you in line for Katie's book.  Part of Tommy's divorce settlements must be the demand for absolute silence on anything regarding the marriages - at least for Nicole and Katie.  I guess he was burned by Mimi Rogers.  Remember her (Playboy, I think) interview where she said Tommy lived like a monk and wanted to keep his instrument pure?   Have to find that quote.  OK, here it is from an old Entertainment Weekly item:

The couple was childless, and rumors about Cruise’s fertility ran rampant. It didn’t help when Rogers joked in a 1993 Playboy interview that ”Tom was seriously thinking of becoming a monk…he thought he had to be celibate to maintain the purity of his instrument.” Her own instrument, she added, ”needed tuning.”

(The thing is, she probably wasn't joking.)

I can't remember...was Mimi Rogers a Scientologist also? Was she the one that introduced Tommy Boy to it?

On 12/21/2016 at 7:11 AM, GenL said:

What?!?!?!  Noooooooooooooooo!!!  *sobbing*  I love(d) Beck.

Beck is married to Marissa Ribisi. From teh google: "Marissa and Giovanni Ribisi were delivered by Beck's mother, Bibbe Hansen.  Beck has self-identified both as Jewish and as a Scientologist.

11 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh my.....well...do they also believe in Jesus Christ? I mean, can you still be Catholic or Jewish and be a member of the COS?

See above. I guess you can, although I thought Leah said you couldn't?

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45 minutes ago, Cranky One said:

I can't remember...was Mimi Rogers a Scientologist also? Was she the one that introduced Tommy Boy to it?

Yes.  She was second generation and her father was a pal of L Ron's.

He was made a Suppressive person around the time David Miscavige started cpming into power. 

She is now a former member supposedly because she dislikes David Miscavige.

She had an auditing practice at one point and audited both Sonny Bono and Tom Cruise and her pal Kristie Alley.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh my.....well...do they also believe in Jesus Christ? I mean, can you still be Catholic or Jewish and be a member of the COS?

I have seen it said that you can but it doesn't seem possible to me, at least from a Christian perspective. Putting aside the cruelty, money grabbing, etc. even the supposed beliefs of  Scientology that revolve around training yourself to heal with your mind etc are really not compatible with Christian beliefs. And while I'm no expert, they don't seem that compatible with Judaism either. 

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26 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Yes.  She was second generation and her father was a pal of L Ron's.

He was made a Suppressive person around the time David Miscavige started cpming into power. 

She is now a former member supposedly because she dislikes David Miscavige.

She had an auditing practice at one point and audited both Sonny Bono and Tom Cruise and her pal Kristie Alley.

Thanks for the info!

BTW, I posted in the Media thread how CO$ is all butthurt that A&E pulled the KKK show, but not Leah's.

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 1:02 PM, FlowerofCarnage said:

I remember reading somewhere that Katie Holmes had to use burner phones to contact her divorce lawyers. Now, you know it's bad when planning to file divorce from your spouse has to conducted like an episode of The Wire!

That's what abused wives resort to too, along with packing an escape bag, when they want to leave.

Edited by dirtydi · Reason: too/to
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9 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Thank you for this information, and yay Germany for calling out a dangerous cult as a dangerous cult.

US (wimp) government, please take note.

The US government (and american celebrities) did a number on Germany for that at that time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_Germany#Criticism_of_Germany.27s_stance

I remember it well, the US position on Scientology was seen as baffling in my country (France) and the comparaison celebrities did with nazi Germany shocked the fuck out of me. 
I hope the next big thing http://amma.org/meeting-amma/north-america is exposed sooner than that. Received by all our world leaders, praised by world's celebrities and shit... She has ties with nationalists in her country, strange disparitions of people who talked about her like the phony she is, the situations of her dear little helpers are exactly the same as the poor chaps caught in scientology, around her is an empire of schools, hospitals and other pseudos accomplisments that poor can't access despite paying for it with their donations etc... And yet, she's celebrated, movies are made about her, she's treated like a saint... We never learn. 

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On 12/27/2016 at 5:22 PM, shelley1005 said:

I remember reading there is speculation that Katie signed a lot of clauses in her divorce about her behavior post divorce.  One of the clauses that someone mentioned was that she could not publicly date anyone for 5 years.  It's been wildly speculated that she has been dating Jamie Foxx for years, but that is why she never goes anywhere in public with him or ever speaks about a relationship with him.  That could just be TMZ malarkey, but it makes ya go hmm....

I remember reading an article saying they took a look at Penelope Cruz when Cruise was briefly dating her, but it was decided that she would not bend to Scientology and they moved on to interviewing other candidates.  I think Katie was the perfect choice for the Church.  She saw Cruise as that glowing celebrity too....she was young and probably easy to control.  I don't think they ever thought she get all cloak and dagger and actually get her and her daughter out of there.  Joey Potter has more moxie than they bargained for!

I also wonder about Kelly Preston and how she justifies the Scientology stance as well.  She has had two children with significant delays, so if she is such a good Scientologist....how does that happen?  I have heard she is much more into it than John is and you would think it would make her question all she knows and believes, etc.  Or did those kids suffer because they weren't able to advance enough into Scientology yet, so their brains weren't able to heal themselves like Tommy's brain healed him of dyslexia.  

There's no way a prohibition on dating is enforceable. Katie's dad is an attorney. He wouldn't let her agree to that and even if he did, he'd tell her it's not enforceable. I think she's been discreet about her relationships post divorce because she did not enjoy the media circus while she was married to Tom. She knows that publicly dating someone is just going to invite that same level of media attention.

I've always suspected that Kelly Preston was so traumatized by her relationship with Charlie Sheen that she overcorrected with Scientology.

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8 hours ago, Pollock said:

And yet, she's celebrated, movies are made about her, she's treated like a saint... We never learn. 

Holy shit some lady talked about this to my husband for several hours on a plane once and he was totally interested in it. I was furious he was paying so much attention to another woman, but now I feel vindicated! She was a nut. 

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2 hours ago, AndreaK1041 said:

Holy shit some lady talked about this to my husband for several hours on a plane once and he was totally interested in it. I was furious he was paying so much attention to another woman, but now I feel vindicated! She was a nut. 

From everything I know of her and from people I know that have met her she is anything but a nut.  I think we have to be careful about labeling anyone who is not "mainstream" as instantly in the Scientology hopper.  This is as dangerous as being taken in by a cult imho.  You don't make an instant judgement of anyone on one person's say so etc.

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On 12/19/2016 at 7:30 AM, laurakaye said:

It's his eyes.  There's something dark and unsettling behind them.  I think it was Leah who talked about how when Tom looks at you, it's like laser beams staring into your soul or something (total paraphrasing, mind you).  I find him one heartbeat away from becoming unhinged.

I would stand in line in the rain at midnight for a chance to grab a book written by Katie Holmes about her experiences with Cruise.  I doubt she'd ever do that because of her daughter, and because she's afraid of what Cruise would do.  Maybe someday she'll be able to tell her story.

I know someone who worked for Tommy at one point.  It was not unheard of for certain people to be told NEVER to look Mr. Cruise directly in the eye and do not speak unless he speaks to you first.  While he was nice to the person I know, he was never less than "intense."  And certainly never chummy.

In contrast with John Travolta, who was friendly, chummy and very appreciative of people who helped him/worked with him. 

On 12/21/2016 at 0:39 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I'll never forget this one interview that I saw with John T.  on the Charlie Rose interview show. (PBS) (But, I think there was a fill-in for Charlie. I can't recall who it was right now.  It was a big name though. Anyone recall?) He was trying to convince us that meds were not the answer and that his son was fine. This was before Jett's death.  It seems like it might have been around 2008.  I don't think it was the one from 1999.  He really was adamant and I recall wondering what was really going on with Jett. 

 

On 12/22/2016 at 9:50 AM, tljgator said:

I really thought he might leave the church over everything that went down with Jett's death. The Travoltas live near here and John was pretty regularly seen out and about with Jett and it was quietly accepted that Jett was autistic (likely among other things, as well) -- there was a lovely interview in the local paper after his death with the waitress at the IHOP that served them regularly about how much Jett loved pancakes and how John would bring him in to celebrate things and whatnot.  I think it was a big deal to John that he wasn't really allowed by COS to use the term 'autistic' (probably now expunged from all public records, but I recall him doing so at least once publicly) and the issue with wanting to let the kid take meds was a big one for him later on (a big switch from the interview you mention and, again, probably now expunged since he's back in the COS full-tilt).

Anyhoo, he had those tabloid-y scandals soon after and stayed in the church, and then funded the building of a big ol' COS center in the nearest 'big' town to where he lives and they ignored all that went down with Jett.  Fascinatingly strange, the whole thing.

From someone I know, both John and Kelly knew full well that Jett was autistic.  They kept it on the downlow because the CO$ would consider Jett "defective" and brought autism on himself.  The CO$ also would not support or agree with traditional therapies and treatments, which they were getting for Jett. 

I have never doubted that both John and Kelly loved their son.

On 12/22/2016 at 10:26 AM, hatchetgirl said:

 

I'm just shocked Katie got away.  How was that possible? 

 

On 12/22/2016 at 1:33 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I remember that Suri always wore summer dresses, often princess-like, refused to wear coats in the dead of New York winters, had to be carried and wore high heeled shoes.   She was always in the company of adults, had no type of schooling, and was constantly traumatized by the pap strolls Cruise forced on them.

Now - Suri is infrequently seen.  But when she's seen, she's often in the company of other children, appropriately dressed for the weather, wearing flats, and walking.  I remember thinking that the first things Katie did after leaving Cruise were - ditch the multiple "minders", trash Suri's ridiculous wardrobe and kitten heels, put Suri in a coat, and set her on her own two feet.  She also stayed in NYC where it would be difficult for the "church" to kidnap her, and ditched Xenu for Catholic school.

People may not remember, but Katie was deliberately (or otherwise) setting up how miserable she was.   She did frequent pap strolls dressed like a bag lady, her unwashed and unbrushed hair with long gray streaks.  She definitely gave the impression she was broken and profoundly depressed.  Meanwhile, her brilliant father was setting up the burner phones, secretly rented apartment, and an iron-clad divorce agreement with enough blackmail material that Cruise immediately signed.  They were divorced in days.

I applaud all of this.  But I'm still feeling slightly bitter toward Katie because I believe she helped alienate Connor and Isabella.  One event is burned into my brain.  Nicole gave an interview stating her children call her Nicole, and that bothers her a little.  Soon after, Katie gave an interview bragging about how Nicole's kids call Katie "mom".   Total bitch move, IMO.  I've also never gotten the impression that after making herself their mom, she tried to reach out to the kids after the divorce.  I also remember that poor Isabella always acted as Suri and Katie's personal assistant.  Isabella would trail behind, carrying their purses, and the stupid blanket that covered Suri because she refused to wear coats.  

I got the impression Isabella and Connor both resented Suri, and how she was treated as the miracle CO$ child, that may or may not be the reincarnation of LRH.   

The person I mentioned above who worked with Tommy said that Katie Holmes was one of the biggest bitches on the planet.

That said, I have never cared for her.  She's a fairly shit actress and she hooked up with Tommy to speed up her career.  (How did that work for you, Katie?)  She had an idea what she was getting into.  She signed a contract and both she and Cruise knew full well that she was outta there when the contract was up.  I think she blindsided him in that she went outside their agreed upon script to "leave."  

As far as Suri goes, she knew that child was going to be paraded around and used like a prop.  No surprise there.

I have heard that Cruise cannot have bio kids; Suri is not biologically his and that's why he did not fight for custody.  Again, whatever is in the contract.  

I think Katie was chosen in part because her Dawson's Creek following would bring a younger audience to the Cruise fan base and because she could have a child.  Whether she was pregnant when they got together (and fudged Suri's birthdate) or got pregnant via AI is a mystery.  I do believe that Suri was born before her official birthdate.

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On 12/28/2016 at 9:30 AM, shelley1005 said:

I think Cruise is basically a psychopath, so I do kind of revel in the joy that he has done movies and had roles that were nominated for an Oscar, but always been denied the prize.  It seems like an award he is desperate to put on his mantle.  How come he hasn't been able to use his ever so awesome Scientology powers to get that done, oh Tommy boy!!!  

I think that he has been so mindfucked by the CO$ and acting his entire life that he really can't function as a normal human being without a script. 

I thought he gave excellent performances in "Rain Man", "Born on the Fourth of July" and "Collateral," but he always seems to go back to the action films.  And since he unleashed his crazy during his TomKat period, it's very difficult for a lot of people to separate the CO$ crazy from the role.  He really did shoot himself in the foot with that one. 

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 9:19 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Call me a cynic but I hugely doubt that Katie Holmes was star struck and went into that marriage as anything other than a business deal.  I think she thought it would help her career which was stalled at generally well regarded indie movie star.

With the marriage, the career she used to have fizzled away.  Then she realized how bad a deal it was and how damaging to her child it was who was now a person rather than an idea and she wasn't getting anything out of it so she bailed with some sort of settlement which probably has her set for life.

I think she was star struck, and not so very bright.  She had given an interview, before meeting Tom, that he was her teenaged crush and she had a poster of him in her locker.  I think CO$ was striking out big time with the auditions, and their attempts to find someone in house.  They found this article, set up the introduction, and Cruise love bombed her.  She still comes off as rather naïve and childish, even though she's pushing forty.  She just ended things with her fiancé, and here's the world's biggest star, and it's not yet common knowledge that he's nuts.  In her interviews leading up to the marriage, it was quite obvious that she was already brainwashed, and quite possibly willingly so.  I think she smiled and fantasized her way through the courtship and marriage, and probably paid little attention to the details of her pre-nup. 

At least she seems strong enough to have refused to be separated from her family, which you know they wanted after her father made things difficult.   I truly believe that if not for her father, Katie would still be wondering the streets of NYC, looking like a bag lady zombie.  And I don't believe Sure would have been sacrificed to Sea Org - Tom's other children weren't.  I think their intentions for Suri were far more sinister.

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 9:25 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh my.....well...do they also believe in Jesus Christ? I mean, can you still be Catholic or Jewish and be a member of the COS?

In an interview, Tom lied and said one could be a scientologist and a Catholic, but that Katie was only a scientologist.  Katie grinned like a moron throughout his explanation.  It's a lie, and multiple ex-scientologists have said so.

21 hours ago, Cranky One said:

Beck is married to Marissa Ribisi. From teh google: "Marissa and Giovanni Ribisi were delivered by Beck's mother, Bibbe Hansen.  Beck has self-identified both as Jewish and as a Scientologist.

It's possible that Beck identifies as Jewish culturally, but scientologist religiously.  Many Jews only identify with the culture, and not the religious aspect.

15 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

The person I mentioned above who worked with Tommy said that Katie Holmes was one of the biggest bitches on the planet.

That said, I have never cared for her.  She's a fairly shit actress and she hooked up with Tommy to speed up her career.  (How did that work for you, Katie?)  She had an idea what she was getting into.  She signed a contract and both she and Cruise knew full well that she was outta there when the contract was up.  I think she blindsided him in that she went outside their agreed upon script to "leave."  

As far as Suri goes, she knew that child was going to be paraded around and used like a prop.  No surprise there.

I have heard that Cruise cannot have bio kids; Suri is not biologically his and that's why he did not fight for custody.  Again, whatever is in the contract.  

I think Katie was chosen in part because her Dawson's Creek following would bring a younger audience to the Cruise fan base and because she could have a child.  Whether she was pregnant when they got together (and fudged Suri's birthdate) or got pregnant via AI is a mystery.  I do believe that Suri was born before her official birthdate.

I've only gotten an inherent sweetness from Katie Holmes, but that doesn't make me a fan.  I think she was very active in the continued alienation of Nicole's kids, as I've mentioned previously.  I think that both Katie and Tom thought they were in love with each other, but Katie's father negotiated with CO$ on the pre-nup.  I've never quite believed in the contract, but I've never quite disbelieved it either.  I really think Katie thought she was in a genuine relationship, and it's likely Tom finds it difficult to live without a script, and his script was to be happily married to Katie.

Tom isn't unable to father a child.  Nicole miscarried after he dumped her, and a DNA test was done to prove Tom was the biological father.  I think Suri looks more and more like Tom as she grows up.  It was difficult to see at first, because Tom and Katie look much alike.  But Suri's nose is pure Tom's and is a Mapother trait - as seen on his cousin William Mapother.

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18 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think she was star struck, and not so very bright.  She had given an interview, before meeting Tom, that he was her teenaged crush and she had a poster of him in her locker.  I think CO$ was striking out big time with the auditions, and their attempts to find someone in house.  They found this article, set up the introduction, and Cruise love bombed her.  She still comes off as rather naïve and childish, even though she's pushing forty.  She just ended things with her fiancé, and here's the world's biggest star, and it's not yet common knowledge that he's nuts.  In her interviews leading up to the marriage, it was quite obvious that she was already brainwashed, and quite possibly willingly so.  I think she smiled and fantasized her way through the courtship and marriage, and probably paid little attention to the details of her pre-nup. 

At least she seems strong enough to have refused to be separated from her family, which you know they wanted after her father made things difficult.   I truly believe that if not for her father, Katie would still be wondering the streets of NYC, looking like a bag lady zombie.  And I don't believe Sure would have been sacrificed to Sea Org - Tom's other children weren't.  I think their intentions for Suri were far more sinister.

In an interview, Tom lied and said one could be a scientologist and a Catholic, but that Katie was only a scientologist.  Katie grinned like a moron throughout his explanation.  It's a lie, and multiple ex-scientologists have said so.

 

I totally agree.  I think Katie has the personality of a wet noodle so she was probably easy to mold into what TC wanted.  I also think Katie was in love with "Tom Cruise"; the man she saw in the movies, not the real life Tom Cruise. Also, she was in love with the IDEA of being Mrs. "Tom Cruise". In the beginning of their relationship, you can see that she enjoyed being "Kate" - morphing from her girl next door look into a way more sophisticated Hollywood glam look, being submissive to TC, being with him at all his press junkets, etc.  As time went on, she came to know the real Tom Cruise and didn't like/love him.  By this point, she probably realized she completely gave up being herself to become what TC wanted in every way, shape and form and it wasn't worth it...at all.

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Just catching up here.  Beck's mother, Bibbe Hansen, was a Scientologist and he was raised in it, but loosely.  He didn't practice it as an adult, until he got together with Marissa Ribisi, who is a hard-core Scientologist.  Suddenly, Beck was into it and into it zealously.  He started giving his mother a really hard time because she wasn't doing her courses and "moving up the chain".  Bibbe told Beck that she never tried to force Scientology on him when he was a kid, and he shouldn't force it on her.  She is now declared and Beck has disconnected from her.   This is all according to Bibbe, who of course is very sad that she lost her son.

Beck, to my knowledge, still will not admit that he's a Scientologist.  He lied about it for years.  I think in recent years his denials have been less explicit and more cagey.  When asked about Scientology, he'll just say something about how people shouldn't discriminate against such a great religion that helps so many people.

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2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I know someone who worked for Tommy at one point.  It was not unheard of for certain people to be told NEVER to look Mr. Cruise directly in the eye and do not speak unless he speaks to you first.  While he was nice to the person I know, he was never less than "intense."  And certainly never chummy.

In contrast with John Travolta, who was friendly, chummy and very appreciative of people who helped him/worked with him. 

 

From someone I know, both John and Kelly knew full well that Jett was autistic.  They kept it on the downlow because the CO$ would consider Jett "defective" and brought autism on himself.  The CO$ also would not support or agree with traditional therapies and treatments, which they were getting for Jett. 

I have never doubted that both John and Kelly loved their son.

 

The person I mentioned above who worked with Tommy said that Katie Holmes was one of the biggest bitches on the planet.

That said, I have never cared for her.  She's a fairly shit actress and she hooked up with Tommy to speed up her career.  (How did that work for you, Katie?)  She had an idea what she was getting into.  She signed a contract and both she and Cruise knew full well that she was outta there when the contract was up.  I think she blindsided him in that she went outside their agreed upon script to "leave."  

As far as Suri goes, she knew that child was going to be paraded around and used like a prop.  No surprise there.

I have heard that Cruise cannot have bio kids; Suri is not biologically his and that's why he did not fight for custody.  Again, whatever is in the contract.  

I think Katie was chosen in part because her Dawson's Creek following would bring a younger audience to the Cruise fan base and because she could have a child.  Whether she was pregnant when they got together (and fudged Suri's birthdate) or got pregnant via AI is a mystery.  I do believe that Suri was born before her official birthdate.

OMG!  Now, I'll have to slowly digest this info. I've never heard this before. lol

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3 hours ago, Bitsy said:

Beck, to my knowledge, still will not admit that he's a Scientologist.  He lied about it for years.  I think in recent years his denials have been less explicit and more cagey.  When asked about Scientology, he'll just say something about how people shouldn't discriminate against such a great religion that helps so many people.

Still dismayed by this. I had such respect for him as a musician. I have about 5 of his albums in my music library  I was LIVID when Kanye West said he didn't deserve the Grammy and Beyoncé did.  

For a long time I was able to separate the person's professional work from the fact that they were a Scientologist.  I thought that I could enjoy their work and not worry about their personal beliefs. I could recognize TC was a lunatic but still enjoy his movies.  I even watched the latest Mission Impossible movie about a month ago.  But, since Leah's show has aired, I have also gone far down into the rabbit hole and no longer can do that. To me, the loss of Tom a Cruise movies doesn't faze me. The loss of Beck's music is still causing me distress. 

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7 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I know someone who worked for Tommy at one point.  It was not unheard of for certain people to be told NEVER to look Mr. Cruise directly in the eye and do not speak unless he speaks to you first.  While he was nice to the person I know, he was never less than "intense."  And certainly never chummy.

In contrast with John Travolta, who was friendly, chummy and very appreciative of people who helped him/worked with him. 

 

From someone I know, both John and Kelly knew full well that Jett was autistic.  They kept it on the downlow because the CO$ would consider Jett "defective" and brought autism on himself.  The CO$ also would not support or agree with traditional therapies and treatments, which they were getting for Jett. 

I have never doubted that both John and Kelly loved their son.

 

The person I mentioned above who worked with Tommy said that Katie Holmes was one of the biggest bitches on the planet.

That said, I have never cared for her.  She's a fairly shit actress and she hooked up with Tommy to speed up her career.  (How did that work for you, Katie?)  She had an idea what she was getting into.  She signed a contract and both she and Cruise knew full well that she was outta there when the contract was up.  I think she blindsided him in that she went outside their agreed upon script to "leave."  

As far as Suri goes, she knew that child was going to be paraded around and used like a prop.  No surprise there.

I have heard that Cruise cannot have bio kids; Suri is not biologically his and that's why he did not fight for custody.  Again, whatever is in the contract.  

I think Katie was chosen in part because her Dawson's Creek following would bring a younger audience to the Cruise fan base and because she could have a child.  Whether she was pregnant when they got together (and fudged Suri's birthdate) or got pregnant via AI is a mystery.  I do believe that Suri was born before her official birthdate.

A friend of mine is good friends with Katie and from what I've been told most of what you said above isn't the case at all. 

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I spent far too much time thinking about Tom Cruise back in the day.  I disliked him well before it was trendy to do so.  Anyway, my take when Tom married Katie was that he was so obsessed with himself that he looked all over Hollywood for the female celebrity who looked most like him and then married her.  Of course he was crazy (and I use the word deliberately) about her--she was his female doppelganger!

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And what's up with the silent labor and delivery? No drugs? I remember hearing that they bought an ultrasound. That was kinda cool.  Tommie was shouting from the couch boasting about a silent birth made  my dusty uterus slam shut.

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12 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I know someone who worked for Tommy at one point.  It was not unheard of for certain people to be told NEVER to look Mr. Cruise directly in the eye and do not speak unless he speaks to you first.  While he was nice to the person I know, he was never less than "intense."  And certainly never chummy.

In contrast with John Travolta, who was friendly, chummy and very appreciative of people who helped him/worked with him. 

 

From someone I know, both John and Kelly knew full well that Jett was autistic.  They kept it on the downlow because the CO$ would consider Jett "defective" and brought autism on himself.  The CO$ also would not support or agree with traditional therapies and treatments, which they were getting for Jett. 

I have never doubted that both John and Kelly loved their son.

 

The person I mentioned above who worked with Tommy said that Katie Holmes was one of the biggest bitches on the planet.

That said, I have never cared for her.  She's a fairly shit actress and she hooked up with Tommy to speed up her career.  (How did that work for you, Katie?)  She had an idea what she was getting into.  She signed a contract and both she and Cruise knew full well that she was outta there when the contract was up.  I think she blindsided him in that she went outside their agreed upon script to "leave."  

As far as Suri goes, she knew that child was going to be paraded around and used like a prop.  No surprise there.

I have heard that Cruise cannot have bio kids; Suri is not biologically his and that's why he did not fight for custody.  Again, whatever is in the contract.  

I think Katie was chosen in part because her Dawson's Creek following would bring a younger audience to the Cruise fan base and because she could have a child.  Whether she was pregnant when they got together (and fudged Suri's birthdate) or got pregnant via AI is a mystery.  I do believe that Suri was born before her official birthdate.

A lot of this seems pretty cray cray.     

And Suri looks quit a  bit like Tom and looks more so as she continues to grow up.  

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17 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I totally agree.  I think Katie has the personality of a wet noodle so she was probably easy to mold into what TC wanted.  I also think Katie was in love with "Tom Cruise"; the man she saw in the movies, not the real life Tom Cruise. Also, she was in love with the IDEA of being Mrs. "Tom Cruise". In the beginning of their relationship, you can see that she enjoyed being "Kate" - morphing from her girl next door look into a way more sophisticated Hollywood glam look, being submissive to TC, being with him at all his press junkets, etc.  As time went on, she came to know the real Tom Cruise and didn't like/love him.  By this point, she probably realized she completely gave up being herself to become what TC wanted in every way, shape and form and it wasn't worth it...at all.

I was in an accelerated undergrad and graduate degree program with 3 girls who were in Katie's graduating class in high school. These were 3 very smart women. They're all MDs now. Katie's grades were competitive with them in high school. I think she's got the intellect, but who knows if the relative idiocy of Hollywood stifled her ability to use her brain. I can't recall any of the women, I went to school with, saying anything about her personality.

I've always thought that her decision to marry Tom was one born of a profound cynicism. I think she saw that she was an actress in her late 20s with a middling career and no heat. She'd been in a relationship with Chris Klein who also had a floundering career and an issue with sobriety. It was all too much work. I think she was regretting not going to college because it's not like she had really delivered any truly notable performances during the time when she would be in school. She'd met Cruise, thought he was attractive, and they got along OK. Most importantly, I think she recognized the career bounce Nicole got post divorce. I believe she thought it was a win win situation. Her increased celebrity might get her betters roles in the relationship or after a break up. I don't think she had any clue of all of the issues with Scientology. 

I don't think a person who was as besotted, submissive, and naive as she appeared to be insists that her father negotiate the prenup that he did. This is a situation where a smart, opportunistic, cynical woman challenged a ruthless and opportunistic organization and they both fucked each other over--big time.

And to a certain extent, I think that it was a smart-ish decision. Had Katie never been involved with Cruise, I think we'd all be in a different topic right now posting about the terrible Lifetime and Hallmark channel movies she would be staring in. "Oh girl, I loved Katie in A Gift for Christmas, Forever Love, and How Could I Know."

Edited by HunterHunted
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I personally think marrying Cruise limited her career.  She worked less because only one was allowed to work at a time.  She also said she was selecting different types of roles.  I remember the dumb movie with Queen Latifah as an example.  

Now that she is on her own, she has gone back to independent films that are much more interesting and where her career was going anyways.  She didn't have to be pigeon holed by Dawson's Creek (Michelle Williams sure wasn't).  And now she just recently directed a movie that looks quite interesting about the struggles of motherhood.  

ETA: The movie Katie just directed (and starred in) is All We Had.  I haven't seen it, but when she was on a promo tour for it....I thought I'd like to when it comes out on DVD.  

Edited by shelley1005
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This article is pure speculation of course, but Tony Ortega asked a "source" inside the Celebrity Centre to rank the top 20 biggest stars in order of the likelihood that they would defect.

Edited by lordonia
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21 hours ago, GenL said:

For a long time I was able to separate the person's professional work from the fact that they were a Scientologist.  I thought that I could enjoy their work and not worry about their personal beliefs. I could recognize TC was a lunatic but still enjoy his movies.  I even watched the latest Mission Impossible movie about a month ago.  But, since Leah's show has aired, I have also gone far down into the rabbit hole and no longer can do that. To me, the loss of Tom a Cruise movies doesn't faze me. The loss of Beck's music is still causing me distress. 

One of my favorite musicians, Billy Sheehan is a Scieno.  I have second row tickets to see one of my favorite bands that he's in, Mr. Big, next June.  I'll overlook his beliefs for a night of damn good music.

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On 12/25/2016 at 8:38 AM, hisbunkie said:

I found it pretty weird that Tom told Oprah he called Katie "Katherine". SHUT UP TOM!

This always stuck out to me too. Because it drove me crazy that he shortened Nicole to Nic in such an aggressive way.

Remember PREMIERE magazine? They did a profile of Kidman right when her career was really taking off. Tom kept popping up during her interview (the reporter kept noting it in the article) and taking over. It was to "surprise" her and show how romantic he was but in the middle of a particularly moving share on her part he popped up from behind a tree. They were in a park. Neither she or the interviewer seemed to appreciate it.

I was a teenager when I read that interview and I never forgot it.

I expected Cruise to come out of the Mission movie engaged to Rebecca Ferguson. That was based on nothing but the fact that he was looking at the time, she was beautiful and foreign and not a huge star yet. Frankly, though, I have been surprised it's taken so long for him to remarry. All that said, though, I like him. (I know, I know). But I've seen him out in public several times and he's always so polite and kind to the people he encounters. I don't mean fans but waitstaff, valets, assistants, etc.

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On 12/28/2016 at 9:30 AM, shelley1005 said:

I think Cruise is basically a psychopath, so I do kind of revel in the joy that he has done movies and had roles that were nominated for an Oscar, but always been denied the prize.  It seems like an award he is desperate to put on his mantle.  How come he hasn't been able to use his ever so awesome Scientology powers to get that done, oh Tommy boy!!!  

 

I've read previously that winning the Oscar can be the kiss of death to one's career. In other words, some of those who win are so disliked by their colleagues that they're not hired for the big roles anymore.

Oh, to have been a fly on the wall when Tom Cruise had to watch his ex-wife Nicole Kidman accepting HER Oscar from 50 feet away in the front row...

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On 12/29/2016 at 5:58 PM, Bitsy said:

Just catching up here.  Beck's mother, Bibbe Hansen, was a Scientologist and he was raised in it, but loosely.  He didn't practice it as an adult, until he got together with Marissa Ribisi, who is a hard-core Scientologist.  Suddenly, Beck was into it and into it zealously.  He started giving his mother a really hard time because she wasn't doing her courses and "moving up the chain".  Bibbe told Beck that she never tried to force Scientology on him when he was a kid, and he shouldn't force it on her.  She is now declared and Beck has disconnected from her.   This is all according to Bibbe, who of course is very sad that she lost her son.

Beck, to my knowledge, still will not admit that he's a Scientologist.  He lied about it for years.  I think in recent years his denials have been less explicit and more cagey.  When asked about Scientology, he'll just say something about how people shouldn't discriminate against such a great religion that helps so many people.

On 12/29/2016 at 9:20 PM, GenL said:

Still dismayed by this. I had such respect for him as a musician. I have about 5 of his albums in my music library  I was LIVID when Kanye West said he didn't deserve the Grammy and Beyoncé did.  

For a long time I was able to separate the person's professional work from the fact that they were a Scientologist.  I thought that I could enjoy their work and not worry about their personal beliefs. I could recognize TC was a lunatic but still enjoy his movies.  I even watched the latest Mission Impossible movie about a month ago.  But, since Leah's show has aired, I have also gone far down into the rabbit hole and no longer can do that. To me, the loss of Tom a Cruise movies doesn't faze me. The loss of Beck's music is still causing me distress. 

 

Steve Jobs was a brilliant guy with such an easy intuition about how people could interact with computers. He's made a huge impact on the planet. He was also an enormous asshole. He named a computer after his daughter, but denied paternity and let her live on welfare for years. When he came back to Apple, he famously halted any of the company'said charitable giving. Even after Jobs' death when Tim Cook and Jobs' widow revealed that Apple and Jobs' had donated money to charity, the amounts were cartoonishly small relative to the wealth of Jobs and Apple. ExxonMobil gave more to charitable organizations than Apple. It's possible to admire the work of someone who has other aspects of their life that are problematic.

Beck is probably a lot like Leah was, clueless about some things and fearful of losing his family. He doesn't seem to be malicious. Beck isn't like Tom Cruise. He doesn't have a compound of Sea Org slaves catering to his every whim. Cruise has a situationally acquired narcissism. That's just from the celebrity and fame. It doesn't help that he's part of a religion that teaches its adherents that they will be able to control the molecules around them. Cruise is a lost cause.

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