High Profile Scientologists: Tom, Travolta, and More!

[Twopper]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:45 AM, Giselle said:

Jumping up and down on the couch wasn't threatening it was laughable and he looked like an idiot.

He did look like an idiot, but someone mentioned to me that he was imitating Miscavage who supposedly jumps up on chairs to intimidate his subordinates.  Not sure if that is true, but it makes sense in a scientological way, not in a normal way.  I have forgotten why he jumped on  the couch.  He has creeped me out ever since I watched part of the ceremony where he gets that award.  His saluting Miscavage and the picture of LRH makes me ill

[italianguy626]

53 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I have forgotten why he jumped on  the couch.

He was on Oprah's old talk show expressing his deep, deep lurve for Katie Holmes. He came off like a total loon. Shortly thereafter was the Matt Lauer interview debacle where he called Matt glib and claimed to know everything about the history of psychiatry and Matt knew nothing.

[Twopper]

2 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

He was on Oprah's old talk show expressing his deep, deep lurve for Katie Holmes. He came off like a total loon. Shortly thereafter was the Matt Lauer interview debacle where he called Matt glib and claimed to know everything about the history of psychiatry and Matt knew nothing.

thanks, I had forgotten.  I do recall his rant against some celeb (Brook Shields?) for taking meds for post natal depression.  He always seems like a total jerk to me.  and not too bright, either

[italianguy626]

19 minutes ago, Twopper said:

thanks, I had forgotten.  I do recall his rant against some celeb (Brook Shields?) for taking meds for post natal depression.  He always seems like a total jerk to me.  and not too bright, either

The rant against Brooke Shields was in the Matt Lauer interview, which led to Tommy’s comments about the history of psychiatry when Lauer started pushing back.

[msrachelj]

On 12/9/2018 at 7:45 PM, MisterBluxom said:

It occurred to me the other day. Is there no legal device that would ensure Shelley would have to appear in some court at some time? Surely many people have been thinking about this for many years now.  Is there just no way to do this at all?

like paying taxes, i r s? her name must be on something , is he forging her signature? has she no family? this is insane.

[LegalParrot81]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

like paying taxes, i r s? her name must be on something , is he forging her signature? has she no family? this is insane.

I wouldn't put it past Miss Cabbage to be forging Shelly's name.  As far as family, I think she was an only child and I believe both her parents are deceased.

[deirdra]

21 hours ago, italianguy626 said:

He was on Oprah's old talk show expressing his deep, deep lurve for Katie Holmes. He came off like a total loon. Shortly thereafter was the Matt Lauer interview debacle where he called Matt glib and claimed to know everything about the history of psychiatry and Matt knew nothing.

I assumed he was trying to counter gay rumours by pretending to be so much in love with a woman that he couldn't control himself.

[juliet73]

4 hours ago, msrachelj said:

like paying taxes, i r s? her name must be on something , is he forging her signature? has she no family? this is insane.

I'm pretty sure members of the sea org don't pay taxes.  As for needing her signature on something, DM probably got power of attorney over Shelly long ago.  If not, I'm sure he does forge it.  Considering every piece of mail, etc gets checked before it's sent and when it's received, I can guarantee Shelly isn't the only member who has had documents falsified without their knowledge.

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, deirdra said:

I assumed he was trying to counter gay rumours by pretending to be so much in love with a woman that he couldn't control himself.

Well, it was that too, IMHO.  Remember when Rosie O'Donnell raved on and on about how Tom Cruise was her girlhood/high school crush?  This was before Rosie came out.  To me it was like a pact the two of them had made to help each other's careers.

[Skycatcher]

5 hours ago, deirdra said:

I assumed he was trying to counter gay rumours by pretending to be so much in love with a woman that he couldn't control himself.

Hmmmmmm.   I wonder if, behind closed doors, Tom and Miss Cabbage..........  They're both soooooo pretty.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Skycatcher

[deirdra]

It was around that time that Scientology, Cruise & Travolta were featured on an episode of South Park called Trapped in the Closet (2005). Cruise got lawyers to stop it being aired in the US for a while, so here in Canada they ran in once or more a week for ages. I wasn't a South Park watcher, but hearing about this made me watch.  It is hilarious and starts with the kids being enticed to watch a video at a Scientology storefront I their town.

[Morrigan2575]

10 hours ago, deirdra said:

It was around that time that Scientology, Cruise & Travolta were featured on an episode of South Park called Trapped in the Closet (2005). Cruise got lawyers to stop it being aired in the US for a while, so here in Canada they ran in once or more a week for ages. I wasn't a South Park watcher, but hearing about this made me watch.  It is hilarious and starts with the kids being enticed to watch a video at a Scientology storefront I their town.

Issac Hayes (Chef) supposedly quit the show after that episode because he was a Scientologist. At least that was what was released at the time.

I Just read an interview with his son who said his father had just suffered a stroke in 2006 and that someone in Scientology who was working with/for Hayes quit South Park for him (without his knowledge/consent).

[2727]

Out of pure spite, I'm glad that Elisabeth Moss lost the SAG award for Handmaid's Tale and hope that streak continues.

[Rlb8031]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:01 PM, juliet73 said:

I'm pretty sure members of the sea org don't pay taxes.  As for needing her signature on something, DM probably got power of attorney over Shelly long ago.  If not, I'm sure he does forge it.  Considering every piece of mail, etc gets checked before it's sent and when it's received, I can guarantee Shelly isn't the only member who has had documents falsified without their knowledge.

If everything we are hearing is correct, only a small number would need to pay taxes (mostly the registrars who are paid commissions on everything they collect). One of the graphics in the episode with the woman who's mother lost her inheritance said that the mother had earned somewhere between $2-3k PER YEAR!. Mike noted that they were taking out somewhere around fifty cents per paycheck in withholding. At those levels even if you have to file, the IRS isn't looking too closely at your return.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Since most taxes are electronically, there is no physical signature required.     I suspect if a power of attorney was needed for something with Shelley's signature, then one would magically appear. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[libgirl2]

On 1/27/2019 at 11:00 PM, 2727 said:

Out of pure spite, I'm glad that Elisabeth Moss lost the SAG award for Handmaid's Tale and hope that streak continues.

So was I! 

[MamaMax]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 4:08 PM, Twopper said:

He did look like an idiot, but someone mentioned to me that he was imitating Miscavage who supposedly jumps up on chairs to intimidate his subordinates.  Not sure if that is true, but it makes sense in a scientological way, not in a normal way.  I have forgotten why he jumped on  the couch.  He has creeped me out ever since I watched part of the ceremony where he gets that award.  His saluting Miscavage and the picture of LRH makes me ill

Ooooooh, he's an ANGRY elf

Edited January 30, 2019 by MamaMax

[DrSparkles]

On 1/25/2019 at 8:43 PM, Skycatcher said:

Hmmmmmm.   I wonder if, behind closed doors, Tom and Miss Cabbage..........  They're both soooooo pretty.

They are?

[kicotan]

“...Police charged the driver with misdemeanor marijuana possession, DUI and failure to yield. Nemeth took her to jail.

It probably seemed a routine arrest. But the woman was Denise Gentile, and in her world, this was anything but routine.

Gentile, of Clearwater, is a well-known Scientologist and the twin sister of the church's worldwide leader, David Miscavige...”

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/twin-sister-of-scientology-leader-miscavige-arrested-for-marijuana/2129224

ETA

“...Denise Gentile, a sister of David Miscavige, chairman of the church's Board of Religious Technology Center, did not appear at Monday's hearing in Pinellas County, the Tampa Bay Times reported. The plea bargain calls for her to undergo an alcohol evaluation, attend classes for drunk drivers, pay $800 in court costs and meet with victims of drunk driving...”

https://www.upi.com/Sister-of-Scientology-head-spared-drug-DUI-conviction/45101373399564/

Edited January 31, 2019 by kicotan
More info

[Rlb8031]

I thought drugs were strictly a no-no for Co$ members???

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I thought drugs were strictly a no-no for Co$ members???

Yeah but Leah was saying something in an interview (with Joe Rogan) that alot of them do drugs or drink) and then go in some type of sauna to sweat it out or detox to get it out of their system. 

[Sew Sumi]

I'd guess that she was smoking pot for medical reasons, but CO$ frowns upon medical interventions. So, no, it appears that sis is a pothead.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Rlb8031]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'd guess that she was smoking pot for medical reasons, but CO$ frowns upon medical interventions. So, no, it appears that sis is a pothead.

Actually, according to that article, she and her husband own a trap house!!!

[Skycatcher]

I had to Google it.....

"A drug house, also known as a trap house, bando, jugg house, or crack house....."

 Sounds like "do as I say not as I do."  Oh, well, as long as it brings in enough money to keep buying those classes, books, and packages, I guess anything goes, right?

Edited February 1, 2019 by Skycatcher

[TexasGal]

21 hours ago, kicotan said:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/twin-sister-of-scientology-leader-miscavige-arrested-for-marijuana/2129224

 

Jeez - from that article

Quote

Denise thought Kyle may have gotten hooked on street drugs. Brennan and Denise phoned Kyle's mother and urged her to send him to Narconon, the drug treatment program affiliated with the church. Kyle's mother refused. (All of this was later recounted in sworn testimony from Denise and Brennan.)

Thomas Brennan locked Kyle's antidepressant medication, Lexapro, in his car trunk. Brennan later found Kyle dead of a gunshot wound in his apartment.

I wish the show would spotlight this.

[Mrs peel]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:05 PM, msrachelj said:

like paying taxes, i r s? her name must be on something , is he forging her signature? has she no family? this is insane.

They could be filing separately, and if she has no reportable income, no reason for the IRS to notice.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Even if she files with Miss Cabbage, with electronic signatures there is no manual signature, and if they were audited, then it would be the tax attorney that went to see the IRS.

[SailorGirl]

Its a nice thought that Shelly might still be alive to possibly escape and testify and bring the whole shit show down, but realistically, she probably is not. Given that the last time she was seen in public was what -- ten years ago at a hardware store -- and the person said she looked really frail and weak then, what are the chances she is still alive. We know how poorly people are treated, she was isolated for years and in poor health. The reality is, she is more likely dead than not and her body long disposed of. 

[Mrs peel]

21 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Its a nice thought that Shelly might still be alive to possibly escape and testify and bring the whole shit show down, but realistically, she probably is not. Given that the last time she was seen in public was what -- ten years ago at a hardware store -- and the person said she looked really frail and weak then, what are the chances she is still alive. We know how poorly people are treated, she was isolated for years and in poor health. The reality is, she is more likely dead than not and her body long disposed of. 

A death certificate needs to be filed with the county.  Yeah, of course they could fail to do it and just bury her.  But if he has a tame doctor, why not just announce she died of natural causes?  They announced hubbard’s Death.

[SailorGirl]

1 hour ago, Mrs peel said:

A death certificate needs to be filed with the county.  Yeah, of course they could fail to do it and just bury her.  But if he has a tame doctor, why not just announce she died of natural causes?  They announced hubbard’s Death.

Because filing a death certificate and/or announcing her death will cause even more questions and shine an even harsher spotlight on them. There's lots of things that "need" to happen that they just don't do.

This show is definitely doing some damage -- you think the pressure from both Leah and the public wouldn't increase by a factor of 100 if Shelly's death were formally announced or filed? Especially if she died a couple of years ago and no certificate was filed? 

As long as there's no definitive proof, they have nothing (formal or legal) to answer for . . . 

LRH's death was a completely different situation and announcing it enabled Miss Cabbage to complete his takeover and elevate LRH to become a conquering hero, abandoning this body to achieve even greater levels of knowledge that he would return and share with the faithful. LRH's life -- and death -- is a thing to be celebrated and praised!! Isn't there video from one of the dog and pony shows of them singing happy birthday to him with a cake and everything?

Edited February 4, 2019 by SailorGirl

[LilWharveyGal]

Tom Cruise is movin' on up!

[cynicat]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:45 PM, LilWharveyGal said:

Tom Cruise is movin' on up!

For a brief instant, I thought this was going to be a link about Tom Cruise doing a remake of The Jeffersons.  As I said, it was a very brief instant...

[CrystalBlue]

On 2/14/2019 at 5:57 AM, cynicat said:

For a brief instant, I thought this was going to be a link about Tom Cruise doing a remake of The Jeffersons.  As I said, it was a very brief instant...

I thought of the exact same thing!  Now I want to know if Tiny Tom is on the east side of Clearwater.  I also wonder if C0$ chose that city because of Clear in the name, as in Going Clear.

[LilWharveyGal]

Here's Tony Ortega's take on Beck's probability of leaving the Co$ now that he's divorcing Marissa Ribisi.

And wow, I'd never recognize Marissa without her big red Dazed And Confused 'do.

[libgirl2]

On 2/18/2019 at 3:37 PM, LilWharveyGal said:

Here's Tony Ortega's take on Beck's probability of leaving the Co$ now that he's divorcing Marissa Ribisi.

And wow, I'd never recognize Marissa without her big red Dazed And Confused 'do.

I hope so. I used to like his music then I found out he was in this cult and stopped listening. 

[Whimsy]

On 2/18/2019 at 4:37 PM, LilWharveyGal said:

Here's Tony Ortega's take on Beck's probability of leaving the Co$ now that he's divorcing Marissa Ribisi.

And wow, I'd never recognize Marissa without her big red Dazed And Confused 'do.

I am so happy to read this. I love Beck. As soon as I heard he was in Scientology I’ve been avoiding his music and would feel sad when I did hear it. To hear how “light” he was makes me feel somewhat better and can’t wait until he gets fully out. I would like to see him be an advocate against it, but he probably won’t for his children. 

[summitsw]

How Tom Cruise’s kids are rock stars in the Scientology World

Kidman and Cruise’s kids step up in Scientology

Not surprising but still sad, Katie did the right thing getting Suri the hell out of there. 

[KHenry14]

On 4/6/2019 at 12:57 PM, summitsw said:

How Tom Cruise’s kids are rock stars in the Scientology World

Kidman and Cruise’s kids step up in Scientology

Not surprising but still sad, Katie did the right thing getting Suri the hell out of there. 

Irony is that the Enquirer's lead story this week is how badly Bella wants to get out of $cientology

[2727]

Elisabeth Moss on how The Handmaid's Tale aligns with her Scientology beliefs: "It's a complicated thing."

To save everyone the trouble of clicking, it's a bunch of evasive, self-serving BS. She doesn't say that both are works of fiction.

[libgirl2]

On 4/9/2019 at 10:50 PM, 2727 said:

Elisabeth Moss on how The Handmaid's Tale aligns with her Scientology beliefs: "It's a complicated thing."

To save everyone the trouble of clicking, it's a bunch of evasive, self-serving BS. She doesn't say that both are works of fiction.

And that's why I don't watch Handmaid's Tale. 

[galaxychaser]

I feel sorry for Bella and Connor. At least they are rich so no sea org or jail for them. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940003/Scientology-Poster-Girl-Bella-Cruise-mentored-churchs-hottest-babe.html

[ramble]

12 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6940003/Scientology-Poster-Girl-Bella-Cruise-mentored-churchs-hottest-babe.html

One of the pics in the above linked article shows a woman holding a huge certificate that reads “Super Power.” Here is the caption:

Evelina Mirceska, Natasha's mother, completed the Super Power course in September 2017, at the same time as Tom Cruise, and therefore is believed to have attained superhuman powers

This stuff never fails to make me laugh out loud at the sheer lunacy  if I get a big certificate with a gold seal that says “Magic Money” will money suddenly start appearing in my purse? Superhuman powers guys! We could have it all. Who has gold foil for the label maker? 

[alexvillage]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:33 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I remember that Suri always wore summer dresses, often princess-like, refused to wear coats in the dead of New York winters, had to be carried and wore high heeled shoes.   She was always in the company of adults, had no type of schooling, and was constantly traumatized by the pap strolls Cruise forced on them.

Now - Suri is infrequently seen.  But when she's seen, she's often in the company of other children, appropriately dressed for the weather, wearing flats, and walking.  I remember thinking that the first things Katie did after leaving Cruise were - ditch the multiple "minders", trash Suri's ridiculous wardrobe and kitten heels, put Suri in a coat, and set her on her own two feet.  She also stayed in NYC where it would be difficult for the "church" to kidnap her, and ditched Xenu for Catholic school.

People may not remember, but Katie was deliberately (or otherwise) setting up how miserable she was.   She did frequent pap strolls dressed like a bag lady, her unwashed and unbrushed hair with long gray streaks.  She definitely gave the impression she was broken and profoundly depressed.  Meanwhile, her brilliant father was setting up the burner phones, secretly rented apartment, and an iron-clad divorce agreement with enough blackmail material that Cruise immediately signed.  They were divorced in days.

I applaud all of this.  But I'm still feeling slightly bitter toward Katie because I believe she helped alienate Connor and Isabella.  One event is burned into my brain.  Nicole gave an interview stating her children call her Nicole, and that bothers her a little.  Soon after, Katie gave an interview bragging about how Nicole's kids call Katie "mom".   Total bitch move, IMO.  I've also never gotten the impression that after making herself their mom, she tried to reach out to the kids after the divorce.  I also remember that poor Isabella always acted as Suri and Katie's personal assistant.  Isabella would trail behind, carrying their purses, and the stupid blanket that covered Suri because she refused to wear coats.  

I got the impression Isabella and Connor both resented Suri, and how she was treated as the miracle CO$ child, that may or may not be the reincarnation of LRH.   

Quoting this just now because I started watching the show yesterday, am reading the thread for the first time. 

Even before I knew what scientology was, I was somewhat harassed by someone in the streets of New York (that was 1986, I was visiting, I grew up in another country), was given a short lecture on it but my spoken english wasn't good, so they gave up, I guess. I kept the literature in some box, and when the internet came full force and I started reading about it, being disgusted by it.

All this is to say that I do read things that mention it and I don't buy, for a second, that Katie Holmes was a victim of Tom Cruise's entitled self. I think she wanted to advance her career and she played well, maybe with the encouragement/help of her father.

I also don't think that dressing Suri like a mini-mom was a scientology thing. I did read something where KH said Suri picked her own clothes, inferring that the heels and diva-like dressing was encouraged by Katie (it was post divorce). Apparently, spending a lot of money on clothes not really suited for a young child (imo, a fur coat and exclusive dresses are not must-haves pieces of a kid's wardrobe) was a favorite mother-daughter event.

The paparazzi thing is also not a scientology privilege. It is a known Hollywood PR stunt: agents call them and tell them where their client is going to be. How the actor appears, depends on what they need at that moment in time. 

Having said that, anytime a child is pulled from the cult it is a win, so Suri is better off away from it, even if she has been "used" by her mother/mother's agents as well.

[alexvillage]

On 12/27/2016 at 9:19 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Call me a cynic but I hugely doubt that Katie Holmes was star struck and went into that marriage as anything other than a business deal.  I think she thought it would help her career which was stalled at generally well regarded indie movie star.

With the marriage, the career she used to have fizzled away.  Then she realized how bad a deal it was and how damaging to her child it was who was now a person rather than an idea and she wasn't getting anything out of it so she bailed with some sort of settlement which probably has her set for life.

Exactly.

and I will go further. Watching what Leah is doing and what others have been doing to expose the church, I find Katie and Nicole Kidman assholes. Katie doesn’t have family in the church, her daughter - if reports are true - doesn’t have a relationship with her father yet Katie is silent because the money that buys the lush life is more important than standing up to the abuses people are going through. 

Fuck her. 

[CrystalBlue]

19 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Exactly.

and I will go further. Watching what Leah is doing and what others have been doing to expose the church, I find Katie and Nicole Kidman assholes. Katie doesn’t have family in the church, her daughter - if reports are true - doesn’t have a relationship with her father yet Katie is silent because the money that buys the lush life is more important than standing up to the abuses people are going through. 

Fuck her. 

ITA.  As for NK, the only time she says anything relating to Co$ is when the whines that she's lost contact with her children.

[alexvillage]

On 1/8/2017 at 11:04 PM, CofCinci said:

No, there are several evidence-based assessment for Autism Spectrum Disorders.

No, there isn't. Autism is not a disease, and one is born and dies autistic. There is ABA, which is conversion therapy, created by the same asshat who decided that "feminine boys" should be training into being "not gay". It is torture, it denies the autistic person the right to be themselves. It trains the autistic to act like non-autistic, to fake, and to never say "no" - which is dangerous. And it is not really evidence based, it is lobby-proved, and also very expensive.

I don't know if Travolta's son was autistic but he died after a seizure, so the seizure was the cause of death (or led to the official cause, I think he hit his head after falling?) If he was't getting medication because of scientology, then it was neglect. The parents might claim "religious freedom" just like anti-vaxxers claim it, and then children die. 

I hope one day the government (when we have one that doesn't side with the anti-vaxxers) will crack down on this neglect that actually kills people, just like some places are telling parents who don't vaccinate their kids to fuck off. 

Conclusion: scientology kills, and it killed Jett.

[sigmaforce86]

On 5/20/2019 at 8:27 PM, alexvillage said:

Exactly.

and I will go further. Watching what Leah is doing and what others have been doing to expose the church, I find Katie and Nicole Kidman assholes. Katie doesn’t have family in the church, her daughter - if reports are true - doesn’t have a relationship with her father yet Katie is silent because the money that buys the lush life is more important than standing up to the abuses people are going through. 

Fuck her. 

 This might be true - I don't think we'll ever know the full real story but I've always believed that Katie is silent not because the money buys her a good life but that the money and divorce bought her silence.  Again we can never know for sure but I think part of the divorce was she had stuff on Tom but Tom had the full CO$ goon squad and lawyers behind him so it was a pretty equal standoff and came down to I won't say anything about you, you don't say anything about me, we both sign the papers now and walk away quietly.  I really, really think that divorce decree or a separate agreement has a clause that Tom and CO$ will leave her alone, no surveillance, no fair gaming etc and in exchange Katie will not publicly speak about Tom, specifically about his relationship with CO$ or about her experiences with CO$.  And it likely states if she does speak out at all they will come after her big time.   Could she have just been a money grabber who doesn't care about those left behind in the CO$ and those who left but need help..maybe.  But I still lean toward her having been threatened and bought into silence as the price she had to pay to get out with her daughter and her freedom intact.

[alexvillage]

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

 This might be true - I don't think we'll ever know the full real story but I've always believed that Katie is silent not because the money buys her a good life but that the money and divorce bought her silence.  Again we can never know for sure but I think part of the divorce was she had stuff on Tom but Tom had the full CO$ goon squad and lawyers behind him so it was a pretty equal standoff and came down to I won't say anything about you, you don't say anything about me, we both sign the papers now and walk away quietly.  I really, really think that divorce decree or a separate agreement has a clause that Tom and CO$ will leave her alone, no surveillance, no fair gaming etc and in exchange Katie will not publicly speak about Tom, specifically about his relationship with CO$ or about her experiences with CO$.  And it likely states if she does speak out at all they will come after her big time.   Could she have just been a money grabber who doesn't care about those left behind in the CO$ and those who left but need help..maybe.  But I still lean toward her having been threatened and bought into silence as the price she had to pay to get out with her daughter and her freedom intact.

That's fair. I am somewhat biased because I never liked her very much. Being silent because she is afraid of the repercussions, or because she just does't want to personally deal with all the shit is a fair enough reason, I guess. I still think that it is a bit selfish, when one considers the level of abuse in every level but abuses do happen in other religions and people still stay silent (priests, Duggars, some Orthodox Jewish groups, etc). Besides, she sees to be well loved by fans, seen as a unwilling victim even, and would likely have support. But choices.

My theory based on nothing in particular, is that she got involved with Tom due to a mix of immaturity ("OMG, my prince!") and ambition ("now I can get better parts"), and that maybe she sees the money as a way to redeem herself and try to compensate for not achieving the professional level she hoped for by marrying Tom.

[Skycatcher]

On 5/25/2019 at 11:05 AM, alexvillage said:

 Being silent because she is afraid of the repercussions, or because she just does't want to personally deal with all the shit is a fair enough reason, I guess. I still think that it is a bit selfish....

Surprising how ready we are to give someone else's ALL for our causes (judgements).  We have no real idea what happened, but it's just so easy say (type out) what someone we don't even know "should" do.

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Skycatcher said:

Surprising how ready we are to give someone else's ALL for our causes (judgements).  We have no real idea what happened, but it's just so easy say (type out) what someone we don't even know "should" do.

Yes, I am judging her. We all judge people, we judge the "good" of people too, and that's ok. I stand by what I said, that I believe it is a selfish position to take. Would I have the same opinion if I knew all that happened? I don't know. I wouldn't say any of this to her face either, that's what places like this site are for, among other things. I just have an opinion and it is as valid as anyone else's. Opinions that someone is "nice" is also a judgement, and it is also valid.