S04.E07: Happy Unburdening

[raven]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:28 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I think they were important catalysts for each other but it was also painfully obvious much of the time that Tawney had no idea what he was talking about and that he was reacting to her being the first kind woman he'd been around in 20 years he wasn't related to.  Their story has felt finished to me since the hotel room in season 2.

I agree with this.  I think their connection was because their lives were changing and both were searching for something.   I didn't get a real romantic vibe from them and I think this episode showed that Tawney is planning her life on her own.  I would be OK to not see her in the final episode, I find Daniel's, Amantha's and Teddy's statuses more interesting.  To me, it was shown that Ted & Janet will stay together, which was nice to see.  I had to rewind the catch the "I meant Janet" from Ted, which made me a bit sad for Teddy, but showed that Ted pays attention to what Janet wants.  I've always felt somewhat sympathetic to Teddy and that made me wince a bit for him (though I did wonder why it was such a big deal to tell Ted about the divorce?)  I hope Teddy finds his way - Tawney appears to be doing so well - almost thriving - and good for her, Teddy is at loose ends so I want him to find his way too.  I can't say enough about what Clayne Crawford has done with the character, which goes a long way to making me feel this way.

Thanks for the backgrounds on George/Trey/Chris and Amantha's friend everyone!

On 12/9/2016 at 6:10 PM, candall said:

This is going to make you all put me on "Ignore," but I like Daniel with Chloe.  Tawny helped him with what he needed back when he was practically inert, but I loooove seeing Daniel sparked up enough to smile and be a little bit smartass, and that's Chloe's bad pixie influence all the way.

Though Chloe doesn't seem like a "real" person, I do like Daniel with her also, and I'm mostly concerned with him so I go with it.  He seems to be having a little bit of fun with her, which I like too.  Bad Pixie influence, perfect heh!

I was pretty riveted by Perkins' recollections to Jon and Sondra.  This show really delivers with the performances and dialogue - just watching Sondra trying to be professional yet so incredulous - her little comments and questions to keep him going, while she was obviously shocked to hear so plainly about how Daniel was interrogated, alone, for hours - was fascinating to watch. 

On 12/9/2016 at 6:10 PM, candall said:

I was taught the best thing you can do for a friend who was raped is to let her (him) tell you the whole story over and over as many times as she wants, no matter how often or how painful it is to hear. 

I didn't know this, thanks.  I also wondered why Daniel's homework was to listen to his story over and over.  I hope he did go to Pickles' new job celebration. 

One more!  I can't guess where we will end up, if Daniel will be cleared or not enough evidence, I think Chloe will leave town on her own (that dance felt like a goodbye), I think Ted & Janet will be OK together and Teddy & Tawney will be OK separately, with Teddy taking longer to get there but I can't figure out about Daniel.  Even if he is exonerated, he has a long way to go.  I would watch stories about Daniel and his halfway house roommates *sigh* this show has been so good, I trust it to have a good wrap-up.

[rue721]

15 hours ago, raven said:

I had to rewind the catch the "I meant Janet" from Ted, which made me a bit sad for Teddy, but showed that Ted pays attention to what Janet wants.  I've always felt somewhat sympathetic to Teddy and that made me wince a bit for him (though I did wonder why it was such a big deal to tell Ted about the divorce?)

I think it was a big deal for Teddy to tell Ted about the divorce because of that conversation between them in the finale last year, when Ted told Teddy that Margaret leaving was partially his (Ted Sr's) fault, and that Teddy needed to make sure not to ruin his (Teddy's) marriage, too. But Teddy failed to save his marriage after all. I think Teddy felt like he was telling his father about a really big failure. IMO he was ashamed.

I think in Teddy's head, it was basically like, there goes another one, that boy can't keep a woman for the life of him, etc. Ironically, if one of the Talbots is going to be single for life, though, I would guess that it would be Tawney. She seems like she's going off to become a nun (or as close to it as a non-Catholic can be).

Personally, I thought she sounded kind of crazy when she was talking about all these big plans that God has for her, but I guess she's always been like that. And at least she sounded happy. It was sad to me that her idea of going off to be a nurse with Doctors Without Borders sounded so much more plausible and realistic than Teddy actually going to see his mom in Florida, though. I guess it seemed like that to me because Tawney really is in nursing school, whereas Teddy hadn't even actually contacted his mom yet. It was sad IMO because it showed how mismatched they are and how doomed their relationship was, but I thought it was mostly sad because it showed how small Teddy's world is (and how much smaller it's getting now that Tawney isn't in it). Now that they're not together, Tawney's world is opening up so big that she's talking about God's plans and saving the world, and Teddy's is shrinking down so small it's confining to even think about it.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that Teddy wanted Janet there when he gave Ted the news. IMO that was because he wanted Ted to literally see Janet and know that he hadn't lost *his* wife. Like, this is Teddy's problem, but Ted doesn't need to take it on, because Ted still has his own wife and home.

I think that the conversation in the garden seemed to both go better than Teddy hoped and IMO not especially well. Ted seemed pretty chilly and distant to me. Like how he said that he had figured this was coming, because nobody who separates gets back together. Or how he said that Teddy shouldn't be alone, but then finished the conversation by walking off without inviting him in, let alone hugging him. And I think it was actually pretty harsh when he said, "I meant Janet" at the very end. You could see both Janet and Teddy deflate. I took that as Ted reminding them of his own failed marriage and that Janet was his SECOND wife, NOT Teddy's (missing) mother, and that Teddy ISN'T her (missing) son. I felt like Teddy asked Janet to be there to remind Ted that his family was still whole, but Ted then turned her presence there into a reminder of Margaret's absence and the ways that the family isn't whole. IMO Ted did that because he saw that Janet and Teddy were bonding, and felt cynical/angry and had an impulse to put a wedge between them.

I guess Ted being at least a little distant and a little salty is to be expected, though. IMO when Teddy rejected the tire store inventory and the idea of getting a new location, and said that he'd only been in the business for his dad anyway, Ted heard that as Teddy saying that he'd sacrificed his life for him and he was done doing that. I don't think that Teddy meant it that way -- to me it just sounded like a bunch of therapy-speak and not actually that useful or even meaningful. But I think that Ted was taken aback, and Teddy is on his shit-list right now. I think Ted is basically thinking that Teddy is an ungrateful brat. Which he can be, but you know.

Edited December 12, 2016 by rue721

[MaryPatShelby]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:18 AM, Armchair Critic said:

I noticed Ted referred to Janet as "your mother" in that scene which was a nice touch.

Except that he ruined it by adding "I meant Janet" as he walked away.  But now, the more I think about it, I believe Ted wanted to make sure Teddy knew it was *Janet* he was referring to by "your mother", and not Margaret.

19 hours ago, raven said:

 I had to rewind the catch the "I meant Janet" from Ted, which made me a bit sad for Teddy, but showed that Ted pays attention to what Janet wants. 

I don't think that this is what Janet wants at all.  She asked Teddy to call her "Janet" instead of "Mom" in the very first episode, when they were going to pick up Daniel at the prison, but I don't think that she necessarily meant forever. She even said, last season I think, that she wished she'd never asked him to call her Janet. 

[Eeksquire]

I read the "I meant Janet" comment differently - I thought it was a throwback to before Daniel was released from prison when Teddy did routinely call Janet 'mom' - he only stopped because she asked him to so that it wouldn't upset Daniel.  That really hurt Teddy and as MaryPatShelby points out, Janet regretted it later.  To me, it's a signal that things are coming full circle - the Talbot family is coming back together having survived the shock of Daniel's return (and re-departure), but it's a little worse for the wear and the cracks that surfaced are going to take some time to heal.

[peeayebee]

Interesting reading everyone's take on "I meant Janet." (I too wasn't sure what he'd said. I had to turn on CC.)

I took it in a positive way, that Ted wanted Teddy to know that Janet is his mom, or at least one of his moms. It's sad that Ted didn't embrace Teddy, but he's one of those men who don't express their emotions easily, who are uncomfortable doing so. I think his awkwardness in the scene is also because he wonders if his own marriage is about to end.

It's a lovely scene in the bathroom when Janet is gently washing his back. She tells him she loves him. When he says the same, his back is to her -- framed to underscore the difficulty he has being emotional. 

[GinnyMars]

On 09/12/2016 at 2:25 AM, Stella said:

Someone pointed out I think on this board but not sure really, that Hannah's bedroom door had a whole slew of locks on the inside of the door. Like at least 5 and when I watched everything again before this season I noticed them in the scene where Jared explores her room. That seems an interesting detail to include for no apparent reason. I'm not ruling out anything yet.

Yes, I posted a screencap here. At the time, I was thinking maybe Hannah's father, who has never even been mentioned as far as I can remember, might have killed her. Now I don't know if I'm leaning more towards Chris or Trey. I so want Trey to go down... Trey needs to go down.

On 10/12/2016 at 9:56 AM, candall said:

That was a long, long callback to Amantha's friend.  Too bad--she seems like rich character material.   I would have enjoyed spending more time on Amantha's lost potential

Agreed. It feels like she's been the only character who didn't have her own storyline in this last season, which makes me sad. I've always loved her, and would have liked more screentime for her, especially in the past few episodes... Where does she go from here? I just can't believe that she keeps working at Thrifty Town in Paulie.

So much is up in the air, and I have no idea where everyone will land... I kinda hope we're getting a time-jump, so we can see these people settled/settling into new, happier lives.

Edited December 13, 2016 by GinnyMars

[nodorothyparker]

I can't imagine Amantha being content to live the rest of her life as a Thrifty Town manager in Paulie either.

Rewatching some of the first season recently, I was struck by the fact that she hasn't had a single scene with Daniel in forever.  So much of her story the first two seasons was about how much of her life she had sacrificed to try to get Daniel freed and she's kind of been floundering about ever since he took the plea deal and left town.  If we do finally get resolution that someone else definitely killed Hanna and Daniel was innocent all along, I'd like to see her share in that with him somehow to see that she was right all along.  That she was clearly struggling after his plea deal with the idea that she had wasted all of those years fighting for him was kind of heartbreaking.

Edited December 14, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[raven]

12 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

 But now, the more I think about it, I believe Ted wanted to make sure Teddy knew it was *Janet* he was referring to by "your mother", and not Margaret.

This is an interesting take, I hadn't thought of it.  I remembered Janet asking Teddy to call her "Janet" but I didn't remember her saying she regretted it, so I was assuming Ted was correcting a slip of the tongue.   Whatever he calls her, it does appear that Teddy still values her presence by asking her to be there when he talked to Ted.  I think their relationship will be OK (Teddy and Janet).

 

17 hours ago, rue721 said:

I think it was a big deal for Teddy to tell Ted about the divorce because of that conversation between them in the finale last year, when Ted told Teddy that Margaret leaving was partially his (Ted Sr's) fault, and that Teddy needed to make sure not to ruin his (Teddy's) marriage, too. But Teddy failed to save his marriage after all. I think Teddy felt like he was telling his father about a really big failure. IMO he was ashamed.

I figured Teddy was ashamed but couldn't figure out why he was SO ashamed or didn't want to disappoint Ted - I forgot about the finale that you mention (I guess I forget everything) so that does make sense.   I thought Teddy did come off as kind of harsh when turning down Ted's offer of a new store as well so he could be feeling guilt over that. 

I'm also curious about Amantha so I hope the last episode does have her spending time with Daniel - I'm comfortable with where the show has left the various Talbots so if the last episode focuses on the crime, Amantha and Daniel and their possible futures, it would work for me.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Rectify Prepares To Cross Over

Images of purgatory and death as new beginning in the show's penultimate episode.

[rue721]

On 12/11/2016 at 10:59 AM, raven said:

I also wondered why Daniel's homework was to listen to his story over and over.

I think the idea was that Daniel started out (in the first season) listening to that tape that Hannah made, and imagining the night she was gang raped, and now he's listening to a tape he made himself, and imagining the night when he himself was gang raped. I guess that's growth?!

[Syren]

On 12/9/2016 at 3:19 PM, AuntiePam said:

There wasn't anything in George and Trey's conversation about G being in love with anyone, or protecting anyone.  It was just "Now they know what they didn't know" and "We were just kids" and "Did you kill her?" and "What are you gonna do?"  George comes off as someone who truly doesn't know who killed Hannah. 

I just rewatched the episode with Trey and Daniel at George's trailer.  Trey "confesses" that he let George "suck him off" a few times.  I do remember a scene where George's dad is unsympathetic about George but I don't remember if he was specific as to why. 

Thanks, AuntiePam. I knew nothing was explicitly said between George and Trey but I thought there was some subtext that made me think that Trey was covering for someone because he had feelings for them. Maybe I conflated what was said at the trailer and the scene with George's dad along with some theorizing in my own head and thought there was something in that earlier scene with G and T that actually wasn't.

On 12/9/2016 at 5:28 PM, nodorothyparker said:

George's dad told Daggett after George's body was found that he didn't believe George would have shot himself because he was weak and easily led and "didn't have any backbone."  He also pointed Daggett in Trey's direction as possibly having something to do with it.  I keep thinking there was another scene where Trey was talking about George's dad thinking he was gay and thus disapproving of it but I can't for the life of me figure out when it would have been.  I may have to go back and look further.

Ah, thank you, NoDorothyParker. I could remember the gist of the scene but that was all.

On 12/9/2016 at 5:28 PM, nodorothyparker said:

 

Amantha tells the story about Jenny early in the first season.  They had been best friends until a couple of years after the murder when she clued Amantha in that all the other kids were going out to the woods where Hanna had been killed and making Daniel the bogeyman.  I think Amantha was upset that everybody knew but her and took it out on her and ended the friendship.  Kerwin was Daniel's friend on death row.  We saw the memory of his walk to his execution at the end of the first season.

 I did not even remember that Jenny had been mentioned before. I just thought we were supposed to know she was an old friend who was dropped due to all that Amantha was dealing with after Daniel's arrest.

Quote

 

And I can't get rid of that quote box.

On 12/9/2016 at 7:47 PM, Ilovecomputers said:

 

I hope to see Kerwin in the final episode too. Maybe after Daniel is finally exonerated he could appear to Daniel and tell him he wouldn't need to watch over Daniel anymore. I know I'll be bawling my eyes out next Wednesday no matter how it ends. 

I hope to see Kerwin, too. And I fully expect I'll be crying no matter what happens.

[justmehere]

3 hours ago, Syren said:

I fully expect I'll be crying no matter what happens.

Me too. I am nervous about this finale. In part it's the general regret about the show ending; of course I don't want it to. More, it's that I freakin' love this family so much, they are so real, and there have been so many beautiful, painful, human moments, I just want them all to live happily ever after, relatively speaking, or at least be on their way there, having found some measure of peace and reconciliation. I'm afraid of it being bad-painful because I won't get to see them work through to their relative happiness in another season (I also don't want to lose anyone in some tragic twist). I already miss them all and am sad that I won't have an ongoing window into their lives. 

It's crazy to think that there will be only 30 episodes in total after the finale. That's epic storytelling.

[MaryPatShelby]

15 hours ago, rue721 said:

I think the idea was that Daniel started out (in the first season) listening to that tape that Hannah made, and imagining the night she was gang raped, and now he's listening to a tape he made himself, and imagining the night when he himself was gang raped. I guess that's growth?!

I thought it was specifically mentioned that therapeutically he was to listen to the tape over and over until the story of what happened didn't pack an emotional punch any more.  Or maybe I read that somewhere else? 

[The Mighty Peanut]

I hope he sees Kerwin and they're both in street clothes instead of DR uniforms. I think it would be a nice way to impart they're both finally off the row and free.

[rue721]

11 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I thought it was specifically mentioned that therapeutically he was to listen to the tape over and over until the story of what happened didn't pack an emotional punch any more.  Or maybe I read that somewhere else? 

Yeah, I think you're right that the therapist did tell him that.

In a meta way, though, I also thought it was interesting that he started out listening to Hannah's tape, and that his and Hannah's tapes were sort of mirror images of each other, and that his and Hannah's experiences were sort of mirror images of each other, too.

Hearing Daniel's account and thinking of Trey, George, and Chris doing the same thing to Hannah really makes me want to see all three of them rot in hell, too. I don't even care if they killed her. I mean damn. That poor girl.

[The Mighty Peanut]

18 hours ago, rue721 said:

Yeah, I think you're right that the therapist did tell him that.

In a meta way, though, I also thought it was interesting that he started out listening to Hannah's tape, and that his and Hannah's tapes were sort of mirror images of each other, and that his and Hannah's experiences were sort of mirror images of each other, too.

Hearing Daniel's account and thinking of Trey, George, and Chris doing the same thing to Hannah really makes me want to see all three of them rot in hell, too. I don't even care if they killed her. I mean damn. That poor girl.

It's true. Hannah went to a stupid high school party to get high and be a rebel--who knew it would mean she'd spend the last moments of her life in terror as she was brutalized and strangled to death by her own peers? Fuck those guys. It really is true that the victims get lost in the aftermath of their murders. Once she was dead Hannah's murder became about everyone except for Hannah.

Edited December 15, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Ilovecomputers]

On 12/14/2016 at 2:00 AM, rue721 said:

In a meta way, though, I also thought it was interesting that he started out listening to Hannah's tape, and that his and Hannah's tapes were sort of mirror images of each other, and that his and Hannah's experiences were sort of mirror images of each other, too.

I hadn't thought of this, Rue721--very insightful of you. 

I wanted Tawny and Daniel to be together in the end. 

Was it ever explained who sent Daniel the letter?  I'm assuming it was his mom because he didn't always take her calls.

Spoiler

I'm glad Ted and Janet will stay together.  I think Amantha will regret letting John go.  The scene where Teddy gave the phone to Tawny was huge for him.  Almost made me cry; you could see his inner turmoil.

 

A friend of mine just started watching Rectify and asked me to explain the episode with the goats.  I can't.  Was he just tripping on something?  He did have money when it was all over, but the guy wasn't hauling a trailer anymore. 

All in all, tied up very nicely. 

[AuntiePam]

4 hours ago, Ilovecomputers said:

A friend of mine just started watching Rectify and asked me to explain the episode with the goats.  I can't.  Was he just tripping on something?  He did have money when it was all over, but the guy wasn't hauling a trailer anymore. 

 

He was tripping but I think the goats were real.  There was no trailer when Goat Man dropped Daniel off, but I thought that might have been a continuity error.  Or maybe he unhooked the trailer when he took Daniel back to town.

When I rewatched, in the episode where Daniel is baptized, he's talking to Tawney about his experience with the Goat Man and the headless statute and all of that -- it was all real to Daniel but Tawney seems to be taking it as a religious experience, with the goat representing the Devil.  I'm gonna watch again -- it's something I didn't pick up on the first time but it jumped right out the second time.  Daniel's telling her something that really happened and she's seeing it as a sign from God.

[Ilovecomputers]

There seemed to be so much made about Tawny wanting to help her patient get his certificate of appreciation that I thought the old man was going to call his attorney and change his will to leave everything to her. 

On a side note, I want to say that I have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments on these episodes; they have shown a lot of insight and intelligence. Many times some of you have pointed out symbolism I didn't pick up on or perspectives I hadn't thought of. I will miss reading these as much as the show. 

[raven]

Whoops - posted in wrong thread.

Edited December 18, 2016 by raven

[radishcake]

Guys keep an eye on what episode you are posting in. Refer to the spoiler policy regarding episodes. Thanks. 

[Anela]

I started crying when they started to dance, and Daniel looked *happy*. That song always makes me cry, though - and it reminds me of my mum, who had the UB40 album when I was a kid. 

I didn't mind Chloe in this episode, for the most part. I tried to turn on CC, when I couldn't make out what Ted said, but my DVR is messed up, and it wouldn't show the words, even though it said that it was on. 

[ketose]

What occurred to me is that Daniel sees something in Chloe and to a lesser extent, Tawney, that he saw in Hanna. Chloe is not quite a full person (manic pixie) and seems to find something comforting in Daniel's manner. This time, Daniel has decided that he can't be responsible for someone else they way he felt responsible for Hanna's death. In that way, I think Chloe's presence in Season 4 was important to Daniel's growth.

[Guest]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:25 PM, Stella said:

LOL it maddens me that I have watched the entire series at least 3 times (except the current one) and I am constantly forgetting details I should know.

I too have thought Trey was a bit too obvious. Someone pointed out I think on this board but not sure really, that Hannah's bedroom door had a whole slew of locks on the inside of the door. Like at least 5 and when I watched everything again before this season I noticed them in the scene where Jared explores her room. That seems an interesting detail to include for no apparent reason. I'm not ruling out anything yet.

And I'm confused about the DNA too but I know the sheriff told Trey his wasn't found. Not sure about George's - another detail poorly remembered.

No one probably cares six months later, but I think in season one, Trey mentioned twice that some uncle had been abusing Hanna from a much earlier age.  I think he mentions it in the pilot to someone and then later to the sheriff.  I think Trey said he (Trey) was Hanna's first sexual partner at age 13, excepting the uncle who'd been molesting her even before that. I figured the three slide/post locks were put on by Hanna to deter the uncle but who knows.  

Not that I expect all mothers to know all things but that fact always made me feel less sympathetic for Hanna's mother.  And even her grief level felt a little overdone to me.  Where was that hyper-focus when her daughter needed it?  20 years is a long time to keep a shrine.