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S03.E04: Episode 4


AmandaPanda
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23 hours ago, Thinbalina said:

I agree and I feel bad that I want them back together.

Me too... and it gets worse,  I think I have a freaking crush on Cole Lockhart  ?

Edited by mcmrdh
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1 hour ago, Noelle87 said:

We all sin differently, doesn't mean some people can be forgiven and some don't. As she said, she left her child with her father and went and voluntarily sought treatment for her mental health. That was a brave and wise choice. She is trying to break a cycle of mother daughter abandonment, all while dealing with her own trauma and mental illness.

 Her daughter needs her. She should be in her life, in some capacity. 

This is where the writing, the storytelling, bothers me.  It was a brave and wise choice, one of the few and maybe the only brave and wise choice Allison has made.  But did we get to see it?  No.  Skipped right past it.  So it's really hard to have sympathy for her when we never saw her making that choice, and never saw her do something for someone else's benefit.  So NOW, all we see is the same Allison whining about getting custody back before she's actually ready - she's thinking of herself and not of Joanie.

Cole and Luisa are not preventing Allison from being in Joanie's life. Cole brought her over soon after Allison asked to see her.  And there are court-ordered, supervised visits now.  And Joanie has a legal advocate.  They are all giving Allison an opportunity to be with Joanie and to show that she is healthy enough to care for her.  And, with her melt-downs every time Joanie is in "danger," Allison knows she's not really ready to be with Joanie on her own, but is ignoring that truth because she wants her so much.  As Joanie's legal guy said, everyone else isn't the problem here.  Allison can't get out of the institution simply cured and poof, she gets Joanie back.  

I never saw selfless and wise Allison, so I only know her as messed-up, perpetual victim, Allison.  So I'm having a hard time rooting for her on the Joanie part, especially since it seems to have been forgotten that Allison kept Cole from Joanie for two years without a word.  The writers are a big fail for me this season.

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11 hours ago, grumpypanda said:

Yep Alison you're a slut and you should feel like shit for sleeping with Cole.

There's a lot of vitriol toward Alison in this thread for her and Cole having sex, but both of them willingly engaged in the act. It was shown in both points of view, so we know it happened. They are both "guilty".

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5 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Does anyone really think that Luisa is the raging bitch that Alison point of view paints her to be? She's like a movie villain or something. That scene where Alison waves to her and she gives her the mean girl look and pulls Cole close to her... Like seriously?

Again with my Luisa issues and not knowing what the show wants to tell it bothers me every time she's onscreen. I've never really been interested in her story, she slept with Scotty, she might have been in this for citizenship...maybe it's the POVs but if she just walked off the show I'd be fine with that.  

5 hours ago, Lemons said:

There is no way a drastic change in looks would happen from being a baby to preschool age.  I wonder why they did that.  I can't believe there's a shortage of blue eyed kids in Hollywood.

I love the different clothing choices with the different perceptions.   With Cole, Luisa was dressed down in Jeans and a top.  With Alison, she's wearing an expensive looking outfit.  Alison always looks dowdy but even worse in Cole's version. 

I keep waiting for the show to have a Scotty's Baby reveal. Also, I do love the fashion choices. Especially noting the differences with Noah in season 1. Alison's POV would have her in a slinky sundress to meet him, Noah's POV had her in jeans & a tee that he'd just rip off of her. Then Noah would always dress Helen up nicer in his head.

4 hours ago, grommit2 said:

BTW...why are the Livingston, New Jersey police investigating Noah's attack?  This is supposed to be a New Jersey college. Noah lived within walking distance of the college campus.  The French professor also walked to Noah's apartment.  Thus, the college campus has to be in or near Livingston.  But, there are NO colleges in, or near, Livingston.  Yes, there was a "Livingston College" in Jersey, part of Rutgers and based in  Piscataway.  No way you would walk from Piscataway to Livingston.  How about Caldwell University (formerly Caldwell College)?  That's a hefty 5-6 miles away. Rutgers is about 40 miles away. Princeton is over 50 miles.  This would not be a Community College.  And it clearly is not NJIT in Newark (over 12 miles).  Fairleigh Dickinson (both campuses) would be too far away, also.  Anybody know?

I still think they are implying Seton Hall (South Orange is close to Livingston). But FDU also has a campus in Florham Park. IDK, right now it seems they're going for Random Unnamed University as the police went out of their way not to say the name of the school. 

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Well Cole is a cheater but Alison keeps screwing other women's husbands.

Luisa is a little too attached to Joanie.  It sucks she can't have her own children but maybe Cole should look into adoption.

Alison has a "healthy income" from the Lobster Roll.  She's not in a hurry to find work.

Not sure if Luisa works any more and while Cole runs the restaurant, he seems to have a lot of free time.  Of course they're building a custom home overlooking the ocean, with no other homes around.  Aren't homes with that kind of frontage by the ocean worth tens of millions up there?

Restaurants in prime locations probably rake it in from visiting New Yorkers but it's not exactly high end place that's going to ring up high 3-figure or even 4-figure bills.

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I am really bummed that Cole turned out to be a cheater too.  Why can't they have one character that lives up to their word on this show?  

Another poster asked if a single mistake should "define" who we are?  I say no.  However, in the case of Alison and Noah it's not an isolated "mistake", it's a series of major fuck ups that snowball together and make up their character or should I say lack of character.  We are all entitled to make some bad decisions during the course of our lifetimes, but when it becomes a constant trend it's time to call a spade a spade.

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Alison's sense of entitlement is what makes her a piece of shit.  As if saying sorry over and over every time she sluts around or runs off makes everything okay and everyone else should forgive her and give her what she wants.  She's a very selfish and spoiled individual.   She's still perpetually playing the victim, so it is clear that she hasn't learned any lesson or grown as an individual in any way.  Fuck her and her ugly duckbill mouth.  She and Noah deserve each other.  Someone upthread wondered what it was that lead to their estrangement.  Well, I'm sure whatever it was, Alison believes that it was not her fault.  With her, it's always someone else's problem.

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I think we have some signs about which of the two perspectives on Joanie's fall is closer to the truth. Cole may be a guy who brings a gun to a family dust-up, but he's a horseman and a former horse professional, and he wouldn't bring a mare to a pony ride. Past that, he and Luisa went on to argue in detail about his choice to make sure it was Alison who comforted Joanie. My guess is that Alison did panic for a moment after Joanie fell, then disassociated  -- and ran to her daughter while still imagining herself paralyzed and hyper-ventilating on the sidelines.

In the same way, Alison remembers being stricken for ten days while Joanie was ill, before taking her to Cole. That may not be true -- ten days? -- but she may believe it. Alone at the time with a four-year-old Joanie whose first father chose years of imprisonment to another day with them, Alison's terror of her own inadequacy felt endless as well as bottomless. It still does as she recalls it. She was terrified of falling helpless to the undertow. The part of Alison that will never stop asking why she waited to take Gabriel to the hospital, is the same part that froze her into inertia when Joanie became ill: it's attached to the part of her that always knew they'd leave her one day. 

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Dammit Cole! WHYYYYYYYYYY!!! I'm really annoyed by this development. I know not many people are Luisa fans but I felt very bad for her. Especially at the end of Allison's POV when she agreed to let Joanie spend the night not knowing her husband had just been screwing Allison. And in Cole's POV when he told her "I'm yours". Ugh.

10 hours ago, right said:

I am really bummed that Cole turned out to be a cheater too.  Why can't they have one character that lives up to their word on this show?  

Another poster asked if a single mistake should "define" who we are?  I say no.  However, in the case of Alison and Noah it's not an isolated "mistake", it's a series of major fuck ups that snowball together and make up their character or should I say lack of character.  We are all entitled to make some bad decisions during the course of our lifetimes, but when it becomes a constant trend it's time to call a spade a spade.

Exactly! I know Allison has been through a lot, but come on! If her and Cole continue screwing around is she going to tell him "hey, btw, in addition to keeping your child from you for 2 years, I also pushed your brother in front of a moving car that my current husband, who I cheated on you with, was driving." Which of course somehow will not be Allison's fault. And Cole because he loves her magic vagina, will somehow be ok with that too.

If you can't tell, I am bitter. Cole was my fave and I really hoped he would make it through this mess better then the rest but he just ruined it (for me) by sleeping with Allison again

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The relationship between Cole and Alison is why I refuse to date a man with a child or children from a previous relationship. I don't want any baby mamma drama, and  I think a bond between people who share a child, even if they are not together, is something no one else can compete with or understand.

Louisa did everything right, loved and cared for another women's child, but she will always be last in that situation. She will never be a part of that bond. She will always be second. It's a no win situation for her. 

If Alison and Cole didn't have Joanie, I'm sure they wouldn't be in each other's lives. But since they do, they will always feel that history and connection. 

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15 hours ago, scrb said:

Not sure if Luisa works any more and while Cole runs the restaurant

In Cole's PoV, Cole had to pick up Joanie because Luisa was tied up at work (short on hostess).  I assumed Luisa was the GM / manager of Lobster Roll, while Cole was more of silent partner.  He had all those time to check on his new house, plus when Alison met him in ep2 he was sitting in booth reading a newspaper.

Edited by DarkRaichu
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1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

I know not many people are Luisa fans but I felt very bad for her. Especially at the end of Allison's POV when she agreed to let Joanie spend the night not knowing her husband had just been screwing Allison.

The saddest part of that scene was Luisa saying to Alison she hoped that all her bad decisions were behind her. Yeah about that... 

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13 hours ago, bilgistic said:

There's a lot of vitriol toward Alison in this thread for her and Cole having sex, but both of them willingly engaged in the act. It was shown in both points of view, so we know it happened. They are both "guilty".

I think people just hate Alison more than they do Cole at this point, though I suspect the show will be sure to have him catch up in the awful department soon enough. 

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13 hours ago, izabella said:

Cole and Luisa are not preventing Allison from being in Joanie's life. Cole brought her over soon after Allison asked to see her.  And there are court-ordered, supervised visits now.

Cole decided to let Joanie see Alison, but from what we saw, he was overriding Luisa's wishes by doing so.

It seems like Luisa thinks that even the supervised visits are a step too far. And sorry, Luisa, but cutting Joanie off from her mother entirely isn't the answer. If you think Alison's a danger to her, then insist that the visits remain supervised. If you think it's bad for Joanie's mental health just to be around Alison, think about how bad it will be for her mental health if she believes that her mother permanently abandoned her.

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19 hours ago, Lemons said:

There is no way a drastic change in looks would happen from being a baby to preschool age.  I wonder why they did that.  I can't believe there's a shortage of blue eyed kids in Hollywood.

 

I'm calling it right now...since they never actually revealed to viewing audience that Cole was the father (I don't think?), 5 year old Joanie has dark hair and eyes because she's actually Noah's (who has dark hair and eyes) daughter. Remember, it's all about how the characters remember/view things. The nanny remarked about baby Joanie looking just like her father and I thought she must've been smoking crack on the side when she said that. Maybe in the nanny's POV baby Joanie did have dark hair/eyes, hence, the remark.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! Where's Maury Povich when you need him, dammit!?!

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As I mentioned the last time this came up:

My daughter's hair went from black at birth to light blonde by  4.  So, not so strange.

Joanie's could have gone the other way.

I think Cole is a controlling asshole and always have.  Just like his mother.

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I've been wondering as well why Allison has estranged herself from Noah. I was thinking it was because when she went into the mental hospital, she had no contact with him, and did he even know that she was there, since he himself was in prison? Now that she's trying to get joint custody of Joanie, she must know that if Noah is back with her again, the court would probably deny her custody since Noah went to prison. Just a guess. 

Seriously, I don't know why Allison just didn't say that Scotty was attempting to rape her. If she, Helen and Noah had all told the truth, maybe Noah wouldn't have gone to jail. I think Helen might have but if Allison testified that it was self defense on her part, and the car accident was truly that- an accident, possibly no one would have served any time at all.

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Another poster asked if a single mistake should "define" who we are?

Actually, I have always thought that was the main premise of the show, hence the title "The Affair". One infidelity; one bout of unprotected sex; one night driving drunk, one drugged night watching your daughter make out with another woman; one lie, as in Noah's false confession, can mess up your entire life, and the lives of innocent others around you.

21 minutes ago, Noelle87 said:

The relationship between Cole and Alison is why I refuse to date a man with a child or children from a previous relationship. I don't want any baby mamma drama, and  I think a bond between people who share a child, even if they are not together, is something no one else can compete with or understand.

NOELLE87, I am with you. Girlfriend, you might want to also add to your no-date list men who have lost a child with their ex. I believe that's a bond that we can never compete with.

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Seriously, I don't know why Allison just didn't say that Scotty was attempting to rape her.

I think Allison is confused about what consent is. Did she really consent to the initial advances of Noah or even the recent advances with Cole? She cooperated, her magic vagina might have enjoy it, but did she initiate anything, did she plan for the events to occur? I think that was what the, albeit insufferable times two, table discussion at the French professor's house was about and another premise of the show: do woman consent to sex or does sex happen to woman? Would a lot of sex even occur if woman fully consented to it in the non-aroused light of day? (Don't get me wrong, I personally am a firm believer in "non-romantic" consent, I just am not sure that is one of the premises of this show.)

Edited by MaryHedwig
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From the start I didn't understand how we were supposed to perceive Cole on this show. The narrative has cast him as a brutish, violent, unlawful guy, yet it's totally at odds with Joshua Jackson's rather charming and sensitive portrayal of him. I don't know if Jackson's miscast here, or the writers can't decide on who Cole should be. Differences in POVs aside, it feels like they just keep tacking new facets on to him that are often at odds with how he's previously been portrayed or described. The fact that he was dealing drugs to the tourists who he didn't want tainting Montauk with their Manhattan money/vibes never made any sense and now his emotional choices with regard to Allison and Luisa don't either. I especially thought that his reaction to OSCAR, of all people, in this episode was nonsensical given the water under the bridge between the two of them. 

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4 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

If she, Helen and Noah had all told the truth, maybe Noah wouldn't have gone to jail. I think Helen might have but if Allison testified that it was self defense on her part, and the car accident was truly that- an accident, possibly no one would have served any time at all.

How many times over the years, have I thought this very thing while watching a TV show? If only the truth had been told, "x" would not have had to happen. But without lies and misunderstandings, 90% of the silly plots/episodes throughout TV history (granted, mostly in sitcoms, but you get my drift) would never have been written.

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I've been wondering as well why Allison has estranged herself from Noah.

Help me out if I made this one up, but I thought it was because Alison knew that Noah's court confession was false, that Noah had lied to cover for Helen. Alison was pissed that Noah would choose to go to prison to protect his ex as opposed to tell the truth, be free, and build a life with her. Note to self: never get in a car with my drunken ex-wife.

Edited by MaryHedwig
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6 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

Help me out if I made this one up, but I thought is was because Alison knew that Noah's court confession was false, that Noah had lied to cover for Helen. Alison was pissed that Noah would choose to go to prison to protect his ex as oppose to tell the truth, be free, and build a life with her. Note to self: never get in a car with my drunken ex-wife.

That's one way to look at it, but there is another as well.  He lied to protect Allison.  Allison knows he covered up the fact he saw her in the bushes and knows she was involved with Scotty's accident, but he chose not to say anything since he doesn't know whether she deliberately pushed Scotty or not.

Of course, since the show decided to skip over all that, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's.

29 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

I've been wondering as well why Allison has estranged herself from Noah. I was thinking it was because when she went into the mental hospital, she had no contact with him, and did he even know that she was there, since he himself was in prison?

I think he did know since he was sending letters to the institution.  Didn't we see them giving her a stack of letters that keep coming...he must not have known when she got out.

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14 hours ago, scrb said:

Luisa is a little too attached to Joanie.

I mean, she loves the child and is raising her as if she was her own. That's beyond admirable from a stepparent, especially one who did not sign up to be a stepparent.

 

2 hours ago, Noelle87 said:

The relationship between Cole and Alison is why I refuse to date a man with a child or children from a previous relationship. I don't want any baby mamma drama, and  I think a bond between people who share a child, even if they are not together, is something no one else can compete with or understand.

Louisa did everything right, loved and cared for another women's child, but she will always be last in that situation. She will never be a part of that bond. She will always be second. It's a no win situation for her.

Precisely. Luisa is stepping up and doing everything right, and she still gets cheated on because of "the bond" between two weak, wretched people.

I too stay away from single dads for the reason you stated.

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I think he did know since he was sending letters to the institution.  Didn't we see them giving her a stack of letters that keep coming...he must not have known when she got out.

That wasn't the institution. That was the local Montauk post office. Alison went to pick up her mail since she'd been gone for so long and the woman noted that she'd been getting these letters twice a week, all from the same address, which was the jail where Noah presumably was. 

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That's one way to look at it, but there is another as well.  He lied to protect Allison.  Allison knows he covered up the fact he saw her in the bushes and knows she was involved with Scotty's accident, but he chose not to say anything since he doesn't know whether she deliberately pushed Scotty or not.

This is where the show's construct of different POV's gets tricky in how viewers interpret different events. It is only in Alison's POV that we see Noah seeing her in the bushes after Helen hits Scotty and later her telling Noah that she pushed Scotty and it was an accident. Noah's POV only showed that he thought he saw someone in the bushes and then he left. So did the stuff with Alison really happen and if it didn't, does Noah know that Alison was anywhere near that place that night? And later in Season 2, when Noah was going to confess, in his POV we saw the conversation with Alison where she was basically telling him to admit it was Helen and there is no mention of her being there.

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From the start I didn't understand how we were supposed to perceive Cole on this show. The narrative has cast him as a brutish, violent, unlawful guy, yet it's totally at odds with Joshua Jackson's rather charming and sensitive portrayal of him. I don't know if Jackson's miscast here, or the writers can't decide on who Cole should be. Differences in POVs aside, it feels like they just keep tacking new facets on to him that are often at odds with how he's previously been portrayed or described. The fact that he was dealing drugs to the tourists who he didn't want tainting Montauk with their Manhattan money/vibes never made any sense and now his emotional choices with regard to Allison and Luisa don't either. I especially thought that his reaction to OSCAR, of all people, in this episode was nonsensical given the water under the bridge between the two of them.

YMMV but I've never seen this confusing portrayal of Cole's character that others constantly allude to. Putting aside that all of what we knew of Cole in S1 was from Alison's POV, even then I just thought that he came across as a man who was battling his own grief over his son's death and was a bit emotionally distant in general. He just didn't seem like someone who was very open about his feelings, which is what made the scene of him talking about Gabriel and his grief to Alison, so poignant. There was definitely the small town, country boy vibe about him but I don't think he ever seemed like a brutish and violent person. Again, he just seemed like someone not very open with his feelings and that among other things contributed to the massive emotional distance between him and his wife. 

The scene in the first season finale was so different it was hard to truly judge his character based on it. Alison's version had him as near suicidal and violent but Noah's version just had him pull a gun on Noah to get him off his brother. He seemed perfectly calm and sane in Noah's version of events. Either way, again I felt like Cole is simply someone who doesn't like talking about his feelings, likes his small town and simple life and loved Alison like he's loved her since they were teenagers. His spiral in Season 2 didn't seem that out of character or strange for someone of his circumstances - wife left, still dealing with grief over son's death, family falling apart and losing something that was their family legacy for almost a hundred years. 

I know Alison saw him as threatening at times but Alison sees everyone that way at times because in Alison's POV everyone is out to hurt her and treat her badly. But Alison's POV is also where he's been shown at other times to be very gentle and loving towards her. With regard to the drug selling, I just saw that as an ends to a means to them. Didn't mean it was something he enjoyed but the ends was saving their family legacy; something that did gel with what we knew of Cole, imo. And finally, while I hate this storyline of him and Alison, I don't find it so at odds either with what we've seen of the character.

I don't think we were ever given any indication that Cole ever stopped loving Alison. Again, their marriage was mostly broken by the death of their son because they were both buried in their own grief. However, Cole took Alison back in S1 after finding out about her and Noah. Then she was the one who left him and if we recall, when she said she couldn't stay in Montauk, he followed her to the train station, wanting to go with her, where she then left him and Noah (of course this was her POV so who knows how accurate that all was). Then when she returned, she's the one was brutal and cutting in telling him she didn't want him anymore. Season 2 saw him ask her if she was coming home when he brought her her stuff in his POV. Then of course they later slept together. 

I think Cole did eventually get to a place of moving on after meeting Luisa, which included accepting that he and Alison were over. And I think he does love Luisa and married her because he loved her. But as I said, sharing Joanie with Alison just complicated the situation in a way that wouldn't exist had that not been the case. With all the history already between them, coupled with now another child, it's made it harder for him to move on from her. He knows it's not a good idea, judging by his comment about her and the chaos she brings to his life which is true but I think it's hard for him to truly let Alison go with all the history between them, coupled with sharing Joanie. He should though because Alison is a one woman wrecking ball. 

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There's a lot of vitriol toward Alison in this thread for her and Cole having sex, but both of them willingly engaged in the act. It was shown in both points of view, so we know it happened. They are both "guilty".

I see plenty of comments angry at Cole and people saying the character was the last remaining one to like and now he's dead to them too. The vitriol for Alison is not about her and Cole having sex. It's about everything about the character for the last three seasons and all her fucked up choices. Sleeping with Cole is really just one more bad choice in a string of many when it comes to Alison. Also, most people are more annoyed at her continued need to still play victim and see herself as a victim while she fucks up constantly and never seems to learn from it. 

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I'm calling it right now...since they never actually revealed to viewing audience that Cole was the father (I don't think?), 5 year old Joanie has dark hair and eyes because she's actually Noah's (who has dark hair and eyes) daughter. Remember, it's all about how the characters remember/view things. The nanny remarked about baby Joanie looking just like her father and I thought she must've been smoking crack on the side when she said that. Maybe in the nanny's POV baby Joanie did have dark hair/eyes, hence, the remark.

We saw Alison tell Noah in his POV that Joanie may not be his. Gottlief, Noah's attorney had a paternity test done and told Noah flatly in Noah's POV that Joanie wasn't his. Noah told Gottlief he already knew that. The show made a point of Scotty knowing that Alison and Cole slept together that night. Alison was terrified when she ran into Scotty and he saw Joanie and made some not so subtle and cryptic comment making it clear he knew she was Cole's. This was all her POV. Joanie was supposedly five weeks early based on when she should have been born if she were Noah's, since he and Alison didn't see each other for six weeks. More importantly, Alison has told Cole Joanie is his. Now I wish the show hadn't skipped over that reveal entirely but are we to believe that Cole just said okay and didn't have a paternity test done to confirm that? I guess anything is possible in the land of television contrivance but of all the many stupid things the show has done, trying to retcon Joanie's being Cole would be at the top. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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3 hours ago, Noelle87 said:

The relationship between Cole and Alison is why I refuse to date a man with a child or children from a previous relationship. I don't want any baby mamma drama, and  I think a bond between people who share a child, even if they are not together, is something no one else can compete with or understand.

Louisa did everything right, loved and cared for another women's child, but she will always be last in that situation. She will never be a part of that bond. She will always be second. It's a no win situation for her. 

If Alison and Cole didn't have Joanie, I'm sure they wouldn't be in each other's lives. But since they do, they will always feel that history and connection. 

The worst part is that Luisa didn't know about Joanie before marrying Cole, because Cole himself didn't know. She didn't make the choice to be a stepmother, yet when faced with the situation she stepped up no questions asked. And then Cole "rewards" her love and selflessness by cheating on her.

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49 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

YMMV but I've never seen this confusing portrayal of Cole's character that others constantly allude to. Putting aside that all of what we knew of Cole in S1 was from Alison's POV, even then I just thought that he came across as a man who was battling his own grief over his son's death and was a bit emotionally distant in general. He just didn't seem like someone who was very open about his feelings, which is what made the scene of him talking about Gabriel and his grief to Alison, so poignant. There was definitely the small town, country boy vibe about him but I don't think he ever seemed like a brutish and violent person. Again, he just seemed like someone not very open with his feelings and that among other things contributed to the massive emotional distance between him and his wife. 

 

For me, I never thought he came across as very closed off. From the very first episode, he seemed to keep trying to connect with and reach out to Alison and she was the one closed off to him.  He seems pretty open to talking about and confronting things as the show goes on, too, IMO. So the idea of Cole as some sort of stoic Marlboro Man persona is one I never really understood because I couldn't find that in Jackson's performance at all.

I do think the show tries to present Cole as menacing across different POVs -- from the very rough/was-it-nonconsensual sex with Alison on the car in Noah's POV in the pilot, to the gun scene at the end of S1 (which is confirmed as actually happening by Whitney in an early S2 scene from either Noah or Helen's POV when she screeches about Cole holding her at gunpoint), to even small things like Oscar calling him terrifying in the bar with Alison a couple episodes back in Alison's POV or him pointing a finger gun at Noah from the window of the cafe last season. And I don't know why but that has felt pretty false and discordant to me. 

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Was it my imagination, or was the dollhouse that Alison built a replica of her grandmother's house on the beach?  And if it was a replica, why?  Why would she make a dollhouse for her daughter of that?  I think there was some kind of agenda on her part, other than being creative and giving her daughter something fun.  

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7 minutes ago, taragel said:

For me, I never thought he came across as very closed off. From the very first episode, he seemed to keep trying to connect with and reach out to Alison and she was the one closed off to him.  He seems pretty open to talking about and confronting things as the show goes on, too, IMO. So the idea of Cole as some sort of stoic Marlboro Man persona is one I never really understood because I couldn't find that in Jackson's performance at all.

It really is to each his own because yes, while there were attempts to reach and connect to his wife, I don't think that negates his not liking to talk about his feelings. I wasn't thinking of a stoic Marlboro Man persona regarding Cole. My view of him is that he too, like Alison was buried in his grief but just dealing with it in his own way and that he often came across as someone who didn't like to talk about his feelings too much. So they both internalized their grief and feelings and reacted in different ways. Also my point was simply that I haven't found any of his actions that out of odd and contradictory to where I'm not sure how I'm supposed to feel about the character. YMMV.

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6 hours ago, Noelle87 said:

The relationship between Cole and Alison is why I refuse to date a man with a child or children from a previous relationship. I don't want any baby mamma drama, and  I think a bond between people who share a child, even if they are not together, is something no one else can compete with or understand.

Louisa did everything right, loved and cared for another women's child, but she will always be last in that situation. She will never be a part of that bond. She will always be second. It's a no win situation for her. 

Once again, I am totally Team Luisa. She didn't sign up for ANY of this. A lot of people would run if they found out two years into their marriage that their spouse had a child. It's a host of complications that could be insurmountable for many. But no. Luisa stays. She knows exactly how Cole sees Alison (and that Alison has cheated - I'm sure "if she did it once, she'd do it again" has crossed her mind), the loss in their past, and she still tolerates her husband being linked to that for life. She doesn't question why Alison held onto this for two years (which ... is not the tack I would take), agrees to share custody without protest, bonds with Joanie, steps up as 24/7 Mom when Alison breaks down and abandons Joanie in the middle of the night, to Joanie's detriment (they mentioned tantrums, tears, etc., for months and it's Luisa who's dealing with that day to day), and keeps up that role for six months and takes to it. Not to mention that her efforts with the Lobster Roll have made her and Cole good money - she's built a great life for herself and Cole. And Cole pays her back by assuring her "I'm yours," and then fucking Alison anyway. She's in a horrible, thankless position. I hope she finds out and walks because she deserves better.

Also, as someone who has a life-threatening peanut and tree nut allergy (I almost died when I ate a cookie that I didn't know was peanut butter), fuck Alison and her peanut butter frosting.

Edited by Empress1
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1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Was it my imagination, or was the dollhouse that Alison built a replica of her grandmother's house on the beach?  And if it was a replica, why?  Why would she make a dollhouse for her daughter of that?  I think there was some kind of agenda on her part, other than being creative and giving her daughter something fun.  

I thought it was that house too.  Can't answer your other questions though.  :) 

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This show is about cheaters.

Only Helen hasn't partaken, though she did sleep with Noah's college friend.

Whitney slept with Scottie and then some old fraud artist.

Helen's father decided to leave the mother in his 70s?

Maybe it should be more about hookups which are all wrong.

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On 12/12/2016 at 10:19 PM, scrb said:

Not sure if Luisa works any more and while Cole runs the restaurant, he seems to have a lot of free time.  Of course they're building a custom home overlooking the ocean, with no other homes around.  Aren't homes with that kind of frontage by the ocean worth tens of millions up there?

Restaurants in prime locations probably rake it in from visiting New Yorkers but it's not exactly high end place that's going to ring up high 3-figure or even 4-figure bills.

That bothered me too. Even the house in which Cole and Luisa now live seemed a little too upscale--that was a pretty fabulous-looking kitchen for a part-owner of The Lobster Roll. I never got the impression Oscar was rolling in dough when he was sole owner of the place. Could they have raised menu prices that much? 

But the show did that with Noah's fabulous Greenwich Village apartment, too. Considering NYC prices, it looked like the kind of place you'd need about 10-20 million in the bank to afford. 

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18 hours ago, Bcharmer said:

How many times over the years, have I thought this very thing while watching a TV show? If only the truth had been told, "x" would not have had to happen. But without lies and misunderstandings, 90% of the silly plots/episodes throughout TV history (granted, mostly in sitcoms, but you get my drift) would never have been written.

In fairness, 90% of Shakespeare wouldn't have been written either. Heck, it goes back to the beginning of drama as we know it. Oedipus Rex is based on lies and misunderstandings. The trick is convincing the audience that a character has a believable motivation to lie, or that the character's flaws make it believable that he or she would lie. Alison's character flaw (that she never takes responsibility for anything) makes it kind of believable to me that she'd lie about her role in Scotty's death.

Edited by Milburn Stone
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On 12/12/2016 at 11:01 PM, bilgistic said:

There's a lot of vitriol toward Alison in this thread for her and Cole having sex, but both of them willingly engaged in the act. It was shown in both points of view, so we know it happened. They are both "guilty".

Yes, but Alison apparently has a magical vagina that no man can resist.  That's on her. ; )

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I just remembered from season 1 where Alison was talking to the police officer and I distinctly remember her saying to him "I'd give anything to find out what happened to him", meaning Scotty. Is it possible that Noah and Helen didn't see Allison at the scene of the accident? I'm going to have to go back and re-watch the first 2 seasons at some point to try to make sense out of it all.

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TV shows exaggerate the kind of homes characters can afford.

So the real building in Greenwich Village where the exteriors of Monica and Rachel's apartment in Friends is shot is a street full of apartments and townhomes which cost well into 8-figures.

Guess we're suppose to believe that the Lobster Roll is such a money-printing machine that the owners don't have to have much daily hands-on -- unlikely because even if it's that successful, you don't want to entrust it to employees who are handling all that cash.

Cole and his family were hustling for money in season 1, when they were smuggling cocaine.  Maybe Cole isn't sharing the Lobster Roll money with his family any more so they're fending for themselves?

Also, is Helen estranged from her parents this time?  Eventually she's going to inherit their fortune right?  So why bother being a realtor, though she seems to have enough free time for the doctor, the kids, visiting Noah.

But not enough time for washing her hands between sleeping with the doctor and making the kids' sandwiches.

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53 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

I just remembered from season 1 where Alison was talking to the police officer and I distinctly remember her saying to him "I'd give anything to find out what happened to him", meaning Scotty. Is it possible that Noah and Helen didn't see Allison at the scene of the accident? I'm going to have to go back and re-watch the first 2 seasons at some point to try to make sense out of it all.

It may be possible that Noah and Helen, or, at least Helen, are unawar of Alison being at the scene, but if she said that to the police officer, she would have been covering up.  Or did you mean that she said it to Noah after being questioned by the police?

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Welp, we got an episode without Noah (for the most part) and 3 (3!) Cole sexytimes scenes.  Yep, i'm calling this my favorite episode of the season by a longshot. 

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:24 AM, grumpypanda said:

Fuck you Cole you're dead to me! Anyway, I've always thought most of the acting on this show was pretty good but for some reason I thought Ruth Wilson and Joshua Jackson were awful in most of their scenes this episode. It was Days of Our Lives bad. 

Is it just me or does Luisa look really harsh this season? I wonder if it's intentional to make her look more like a bitch. I don't like her hair and her make-up is too dark or something.

Yep Alison you're a slut and you should feel like shit for sleeping with Cole. I hate her so much! And the peanut butter thing reminded me of the shampoo incident. Luisa might be a bitch but she has reason to be. She was right after all, Alison will destroy her life. Cole is dumb is fall for her act. 

Sigh.  Of course Alison is the slut for sleeping with a married man.  Yet, the married man is perfectly within his right to sleep with a (for all intents and purposes) single woman.  'Tis a story as old as time.

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, Trace said:

Recently, I was watching this show with my daughter, who had never seen it before.  I explained the story line (it was a Noah centric episode which involved both Alison and Helen).  My daughter had one comment. "Wow, Noah really has a thing for women with unfortunate mouths".  Proof positive that snark is a genetic thing in my family.

It's funny, the first time I was introduced to Ruth Wilson is on Luther, and I could NOT stop thinking how ugly her lips/mouth her.  Mr. Duke nicknamed her FishMouth. Yet, on this show, I don't even notice her mouth all that much.  And I actually think she's quite lovely. 

Never noticed Helen having a weird mouth, though.  I will have to look again.

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:01 PM, bilgistic said:

There's a lot of vitriol toward Alison in this thread for her and Cole having sex, but both of them willingly engaged in the act. It was shown in both points of view, so we know it happened. They are both "guilty".

*polite clapping*

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"I'm yours, Luisa."  *goes and fucks Alison*  I hate all of these assholes. Cole seemed like the one decent guy of the main characters.

 

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Damn Cole..

 

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And damn you Cole.  You are no longer any better than Alison or Noah for cheating on your wife like that.  She tells you her fears about Alison and you go right behind her and prove yourself to be a lying piece of scum. 

 

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And Cole, it's almost like the more of a mess Alison is, the more irresistible she is to him. She shows up after six months away with no contact and whines about how she was "in a bad way" - he has a sex dream about her. She pouts about being on the sidelines of Joanie's birthday party and begs him to let her have Joanie for the night despite his better judgement - why, that's so attractive that he has to have sex with her right then and there. I hope Luisa finds out soon, makes Cole buy her out of everything they own together, and lets the two of them live miserably ever after.

 

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Cole, wtf? He's the new Noah, I guess. Has a pretty great life at home, throws it all away for irresistible Alison and her permanent victimhood. He should have never married Luisa if he still had such feelings buried for someone else. Totally unfair.

 

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God, I hate all of these people. Cole was the one main character I was holding out hope for, and now.... seriously?!?

 

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Fuck you Cole you're dead to me! 

I could go on and these comments are all from just the first page and I stopped halfway. YMMV but what I hate is when female characters are rightly called out for shitty actions, it immediately gets twisted into some feminist "of course, it's always the woman's fault" argument no matter how much the male may also be called out. Like judging a female character is just always inherently wrong. Like I said, I don't know about anyone else but my judgement of Alison wasn't just for sleeping with Cole. That's just one more bad choice in her long string of MANY bad choices.

Frankly I was more annoyed and offended at her continued need to play the victim and have the gall to act like she's being punished simply because a court doesn't think she's stable enough to have unsupervised visits with her daughter. And why would they think that after she abandoned her in the middle of the night, disappeared for six months and ended up in a mental institution. I am also sick of the notion that everyone seems to love and want Noah and Alison when I find both to be such inherently unlikable people.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Gadzooks!  The commenters here are REALLY annoyed!  My guess is that the writers decided to just mess everything up. Make every character do stupid, self-serving, short-term things and ignore the consequences. They probably had a good time (and lots of coffee) diagramming how every character would hook up.    Every character is jumping into the sack with every other character. Soon Helen's oldest son will be chasing his high school English teacher.  Gads...what a zoo!   Of course, the operational tag line for the show is: "danger lies in losing control".  Oh yeah.

BTW...why are the Livingston, New Jersey police investigating Noah's attack?  This is supposed to be a New Jersey college. Noah lived within walking distance of the college campus.  The French professor also walked to Noah's apartment.  Thus, the college campus has to be in or near Livingston.  But, there are NO colleges in, or near, Livingston.  Yes, there was a "Livingston College" in Jersey, part of Rutgers and based in  Piscataway.  No way you would walk from Piscataway to Livingston.  How about Caldwell University (formerly Caldwell College)?  That's a hefty 5-6 miles away. Rutgers is about 40 miles away. Princeton is over 50 miles.  This would not be a Community College.  And it clearly is not NJIT in Newark (over 12 miles).  Fairleigh Dickinson (both campuses) would be too far away, also.  Anybody know?

I hope everyone noticed that the Cole-Allison hookup was unprotected.  Oops?  This means we will have another baby popping up in season 4.  Should add to the fun. 

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Frankly I was more annoyed and offended at her continued need to play the victim and have the gall to act like she's being punished simply because a court doesn't think she's stable enough to have unsupervised visits with her daughter. And why would they think that after she abandoned her in the middle of the night, disappeared for six months and ended up in a mental institution.

Yep.  And let's not forget, ever, that she at the very least contemplated deliberately harming, possibly killing Luisa by putting peanut butter in food she knew damn well that Luisa could eat.  I wouldn't put it past her to have actually gone through with it.  She just got lucky they ended up not eating her cake.  And why did she do this?  Because Luisa had the gall to help be there for and take care of the child that she abandoned.  Luisa really stepped up to the plate and the accusations that she's overstepping her bounds and getting too close to Joanie are unfair IMO.  If she was distant with Joanie and resentful of having to deal with her, Alison would have a fucking problem with that too.  Whoever said that Luisa can't win is right.  She's the only one who has my sympathies in this whole thing.  Cole is stupid.  He's blown his life to bits for nothing.  Alison is going to continue to fuck him over and she knows that he just has to deal with it because of Joanie.  

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41 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

Yep.  And let's not forget, ever, that she at the very least contemplated deliberately harming, possibly killing Luisa by putting peanut butter in food she knew damn well that Luisa could eat.  I wouldn't put it past her to have actually gone through with it.  She just got lucky they ended up not eating her cake.  

I believe that after the visit from the detectives, Alison had a second thoughts about that. Their visit made her think twice. She was holding the jar while talking to them, but after they left, we saw her look at the jar, then slide it aside... to show she was rejecting that idea. Not that I am excusing her for thinking about it in the first place, but I thought this showed that she didn't actually go through with it. 

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15 minutes ago, Bcharmer said:

I believe that after the visit from the detectives, Alison had a second thoughts about that. Their visit made her think twice. She was holding the jar while talking to them, but after they left, we saw her look at the jar, then slide it aside... to show she was rejecting that idea. Not that I am excusing her for thinking about it in the first place, but I thought this showed that she didn't actually go through with it. 

But she didn't put the jar back into the pantry, so I think it was supposed to have been left ambiguous whether she ended up using it.

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On 12/12/2016 at 5:01 PM, Lemons said:

I love the different clothing choices with the different perceptions.   With Cole, Luisa was dressed down in Jeans and a top.  With Alison, she's wearing an expensive looking outfit.  Alison always looks dowdy but even worse in Cole's version. 

I initially liked this concept, but now it annoys me more than interests me. Some of these differences are so over the top that they muddy the story so much that we don't actually know what happened (frustrating). The harsh reality is that the overall story arc just isn't compelling enough to tell it from multiple points of view. I would change my mind about this if the show found any plot worth examining in such detail (the first season did a decent job of this).

Cole's first words to the police when they came to his door were: "Get the fuck out of here!" Has anyone on this board ever spoken to police in that way? Did the police react favourably? Come on, writers. Let's keep it somewhat believable here.

I don't buy for one second that Cole would still be attracted to Alison. She fucked up his life and treated him like shit. He isn't a desperate/ugly guy, so I see no need for him to be slumming it with her anymore. Yes they have history, but it's awful history. Although I guess if you get involved in drug deals that you are morally repugnant enough to cheat with your wreck of an ex-wife. So I'll stop short of saying this was a character assassination.

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6 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

Cole's first words to the police when they came to his door were: "Get the fuck out of here!" Has anyone on this board ever spoken to police in that way? Did the police react favourably? Come on, writers. Let's keep it somewhat believable here.

Those weren't his first words. He shook their hands and politely listened to why they were there. They asked him if he'd had contact with Noah, he looked confused and it's when they said Noah was stabbed, he told them to "get the fuck out of here" and immediately made clear that he didn't even know Noah was out of prison, therefore making it unlikely that he attacked him. 

 

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Yes they have history, but it's awful history. 

To be fair, we don't really know anything about their life prior to their son's death. It's entirely possible they were happy and had a good marriage, which if that's the case, would be one more reason why Joanie's existence complicates things some more. Cole may still be drawn to Alison because subconsciously he sees their having Joanie as a chance of a do over.  Btw, none of this means I am in any way happy about this storyline.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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11 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Never noticed Helen having a weird mouth, though.  I will have to look again.

Both Helen and Alison, or rather the actresses who play them, have top lips that have been aggressively enhanced with fillers. It's more noticeable from a side view. 

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14 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Both Helen and Alison, or rather the actresses who play them, have top lips that have been aggressively enhanced with fillers. It's more noticeable from a side view. 

I first saw Ruth Wilson in the BBC's Jane Eyre ten years ago, and her mouth was the same then as it is now. Unless she started with the fillers very early in her career - which is not very common among "serious" young British actresses - I think that's her natural mouth.

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