Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Annb67]

52 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Reality: "Call Jill! Fill the birthing pool!"

Clean the toilet and call Jill. We is birthing a bay-be

[MamaMax]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:47 PM, Mountainair said:

I'm a lurker here but I went to ECU! A long time ago. I grew up in Eastern North Carolina and lived there for 22 years (about 45 minutes away from Greenville) .I haven't been back to Greenville in a few years. My parents sold my childhood home and moved to where I am now in WNC a few years back and I haven't had any reason to go back.

ETA: Eastern NC BBQ for the win! They have a good mix of BBQ where I am now but they used to try and pass off that tomato based sauce as BBQ- no way! Vinegar all the way! When we used to visit my parents we would stop by Gardener's BBQ before leaving town and stock up! Now, we have a smoker and I've perfected the recipe for ENC BBQ and can make it at home.

We are King's people. Get the Pig in a Pup. Giant hushpuppy as a bun, BBQ and cole slaw inside. Heaven.

I also don't get the homebirthing obsession -- Mechelle didn't do that, correct? Or the lack of prenatal care. If babies are the precious gifts, shouldn't you be protecting their health from the get-go?

I wonder if it's more about keeping the girls away from health care providers who aren't - ahem - "likeminded."  The Gothard people like to isolate their kids - guess they are afraid that opposing ideas will corrupt their kids., Which would indicate a lack of faith in their "training up."  Which is why...not a religion, but a cult.

[Whyyouneedaname]

how far from the Duggars do they live?

[kokapetl]

22 minutes ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

how far from the Duggars do they live?

About 45 minutes.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, MamaMax said:

We are King's people. Get the Pig in a Pup. Giant hushpuppy as a bun, BBQ and cole slaw inside. Heaven.

I also don't get the homebirthing obsession -- Mechelle didn't do that, correct? Or the lack of prenatal care. If babies are the precious gifts, shouldn't you be protecting their health from the get-go?

I wonder if it's more about keeping the girls away from health care providers who aren't - ahem - "likeminded."  The Gothard people like to isolate their kids - guess they are afraid that opposing ideas will corrupt their kids., Which would indicate a lack of faith in their "training up."  Which is why...not a religion, but a cult.

That sandwich sounds heavenly.  I might have to drive down to Kinston one of these days to try. 

I believe the home-birth obsession and lack of prenatal care stem from the families not having health insurance.  There is no way that all the girls make enough money to cover multiple hospital births.  Also, most hospitals don't want reality show cameras in the delivery room. 

[Temperance]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I believe the home-birth obsession and lack of prenatal care stem from the families not having health insurance.  There is no way that all the girls make enough money to cover multiple hospital births.  Also, most hospitals don't want reality show cameras in the delivery room. 

That makes some sense for fundies who don't have a lot of money. The Duggars have money and TLC should provide health care for the girls like Joy and Jessa who are the stars of the show. 

[bigskygirl]

The girls should be handling their own health care. If they are not smart enough to realize prenatal care is the best idea for them and the baby, it is on them and not TLC. They believe God will care for them and the baby. Of course they have learn how to play the ole I almost or could have died giving birth to one of my babies from the master aka Michelle.

[Temperance]

I meant that TLC should provide them with health insurance, since the Duggar girls are their employees and we tie health insurance to employment in this country. 

[Sew Sumi]

They are not employees of TLC, hence no insurance. 

[bigskygirl]

Sadly even with health insurance, they probably still would take major chances because God will save them.

[MamaMax]

3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Sadly even with health insurance, they probably still would take major chances because God will save them.

I really don’t think this is it though; Michelle has Hospital births and the girls have all gone to the hospital when it came down to it. 

[tabloidlover]

13 hours ago, MamaMax said:

I really don’t think this is it though; Michelle has Hospital births and the girls have all gone to the hospital when it came down to it. 

I think it is a combination of God will save them and having that badge of honor -- especially if they suffer a long and complicated labor.   They like the attention of how strong stupid they are .

[sleepysuzy]

On 2/22/2018 at 11:16 PM, DragonFaerie said:

I hope Joy and Austin are smart enough to say, hey, first baby, Joy's water broke, she's like 7 minute contractions - we're off to the hospital!  That would be a huge sigh of relief for both Joy and the baby.

They might admit her for broken water, but contractions every 7 minutes are really far apart. I was told to come if contractions were two minutes apart, lasting a minute, for an hour. I have four children, all large babies  (9 lbs to 11 lbs), last three were vbac, and two of my labors were very long (36 hours and 44 hours). Even with medical history of all four needing the NICU for breathing problems, the doctors had no reason to admit me before active labor.

If you go in too early, they will just send you home. It happened to me with both of my long labors. At my hospital, the policy now is not to admit until you are dilated to at least 6 cm.

[duggarshow]

On 2/23/2018 at 11:56 AM, MamaMax said:

We are King's people. Get the Pig in a Pup. Giant hushpuppy as a bun, BBQ and cole slaw inside. Heaven.

I also don't get the homebirthing obsession -- Mechelle didn't do that, correct? Or the lack of prenatal care. If babies are the precious gifts, shouldn't you be protecting their health from the get-go?

I wonder if it's more about keeping the girls away from health care providers who aren't - ahem - "likeminded."  The Gothard people like to isolate their kids - guess they are afraid that opposing ideas will corrupt their kids., Which would indicate a lack of faith in their "training up."  Which is why...not a religion, but a cult.

2

Has it ever been proven that the Duggar family eschews prenatal care? Michelle and Anna were both filmed getting prenatal care. It's entirely possible the others have had it, but haven't filmed it.

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, duggarfan said:

Has it ever been proven that the Duggar family eschews prenatal care? Michelle and Anna were both filmed getting prenatal care. It's entirely possible the others have had it, but haven't filmed it.

Very true, but what kind of prenatal care? Jill and Derick did not know Israel was breech. Most prenatal care includes internal exams in the last month. A skilled medical professional would have realized Israel's head was not where it was supposed to be.

[DragonFaerie]

10 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I lean toward no only because I couldn't see an OB allowing Jill to go two weeks past her due date and not advising both Jill and Jessa to be induced a little earlier when it was obvious those kids were huge. Not to mention I can't see an OB not telling Jill, to be on the safe side, to come to the hospital for her second birth, try for the VBAC, but be ready for the c-section. 

Then again, it's possible an OB advised them on all of this and they chose not to listen because reasons, but I would hope their husbands (I know, I know) would have at least taken the doctor's advice into consideration. 

YES!  This.  

[Temperance]

35 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Very true, but what kind of prenatal care? Jill and Derick did not know Israel was breech. Most prenatal care includes internal exams in the last month. A skilled medical professional would have realized Israel's head was not where it was supposed to be.

One of the them (Jessa, I think) mentioned that she hadn't received much prenatal care. They do take prenatal vitamins. As you say, prenatal care would have definitely picked up on a breech/transverse breech. (Late term ultrasounds would also show a breech baby.) 

33 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I lean toward no only because I couldn't see an OB allowing Jill to go two weeks past her due date and not advising both Jill and Jessa to be induced a little earlier when it was obvious those kids were huge. Not to mention I can't see an OB not telling Jill, to be on the safe side, to come to the hospital for her second birth, try for the VBAC, but be ready for the c-section. 

 

 Yes, usually they're able to tell the size of the baby before they're born, (I have friends who have the opposite problem to Jill. Their babies are very small, and their doctors can tell that before the babies are born.) 

[Sew Sumi]

We also know that deep into her pregnancy with Spurge, Jessa had never heard of gestational diabetes. IIRC, it was first mentioned to her at her BABY SHOWER! We also have no evidence of a midwife attending her birth, or that person would have called for the ambulance. Jessa essentially had an unattended birth, just like Anna with her first two. Anna didn't see a midwife until her pregnancy with Marcus, and actually upgraded to an excellent CPM when they lived in DC, but Joshgate forcing them to move back to AR when she was pregnant meant that we don't know who ended up delivering Meredith. And now that money is tight in their household, who knows what kind of prenatal care she got with Mason? Jill? 

[DragonFaerie]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

We also know that deep into her pregnancy with Spurge, Jessa had never heard of gestational diabetes. IIRC, it was first mentioned to her at her BABY SHOWER! We also have no evidence of a midwife attending her birth, or that person would have called for the ambulance. Jessa essentially had an unattended birth, just like Anna with her first two. Anna didn't see a midwife until her pregnancy with Marcus, and actually upgraded to an excellent CPM when they lived in DC, but Joshgate forcing them to move back to AR when she was pregnant meant that we don't know who ended up delivering Meredith. And now that money is tight in their household, who knows what kind of prenatal care she got with Mason? Jill? 

I'm just baffled at how ignorant Jessa is.  We know from the early specials that Michelle had pre-care and had hospital births.  There was even one special where a lot of the kids came with her for the ultrasound to learn the gender of the baby.  Also, I had to go down the rabbit hole, but Michelle had 13 V births and 4 C-Sections.  It seems that if she needed one, she had one.  No big deal - JILL!  Michelle also had 2 cases of pre-eclempsia, so we know that she was aware of problems and issues.  She even said after Jubilee that in talking to the doctors, they had told her over a decade previously about the issues she and a baby could face with her age in a pregnancy.  Then add in the pathetic training that Jill had as a Not Midwife.  They would have covered things like gestational diabetes.  

Then I remembered that Jessa had a sonagram with Spurge - because she framed it in such a way that her sisters couldn't tell if the baby was male or female.  So did she just not listen to whomever gave her the sonagram about regular concern and care or did she just stop going because she just KNEW everything???

[PradaKitty]

I’m expecting the announcement of baby Forsyth  tomorrow to coincide with the start of new season (of shows, not life!) 

[louannems]

But wasn't Jessa's U/S an ultrasound boutique, vs a medical ultrasound?

[DragonFaerie]

27 minutes ago, louannems said:

But wasn't Jessa's U/S an ultrasound boutique, vs a medical ultrasound?

 

1 minute ago, PoshSprinkles said:

It was probably a vanity ultrasound, which isn't done for medical and diagnostic purposes. 

I am stunned.  I've never heard of a vanity ultrasound/boutique.  WTH???  Um, just stunned, that is all.  Off to find some booze  :-)

[Temperance]

28 minutes ago, DragonFaerie said:

I am stunned.  I've never heard of a vanity ultrasound/boutique.  WTH???  Um, just stunned, that is all.  Off to find some booze  :-)

Done for the purpose of viewing the fetus and/or finding out the gender. Without a doctor/nurse/midwife reading it, it doesn't count as medical. 

As for the boutique, I'm not sure, but there places you can go to get a blood test done and send it to the doctor. Some of them do ultrasounds. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Temperance

[louannems]

It's the radiologist who does the final, OFFICIAL reading of all ultrasounds!

[FakeJoshDuggar]

We found out the sex of our children at a “boutique.”  Both kiddos had their legs crossed in the official 20 week anatomy scan. 

[Normades]

12 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

I think it is a combination of God will save them and having that badge of honor -- especially if they suffer a long and complicated labor.   They like the attention of how strong stupid they are .

I also think there is a martyr component for the women and a passive aggression element on the part of the men. I think they believe women need and deserve to suffer. The sins of Eve and all that BS. I also don't think women are very important to them. I mean look at the way they're treated across the board.

[Portia]

15 minutes ago, FakeJoshDuggar said:

We found out the sex of our children at a “boutique.”  Both kiddos had their legs crossed in the official 20 week anatomy scan. 

How modest of them! You're never too young to be ashamed of your body.

[Arwen Evenstar]

They could have gotten prenatal care at Planned Parenthood, oh quelle horreur 

[Churchhoney]

1 minute ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

They could have gotten prenatal care at Planned Parenthood, oh quelle horreur 

They could nip in one day for a checkup while they're picketing. 

[AUgirl]

Quote

As you say, prenatal care would have definitely picked up on a breech/transverse breech. (Late term ultrasounds would also show a breech baby.) 

My OB’s RNP could tell my son was breech just from where the heart beat and that the giant round protrusion between my ribs (it was his head). No sonogram necessary. 

[CatS]

7 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I lean toward no only because I couldn't see an OB allowing Jill to go two weeks past her due date and not advising both Jill and Jessa to be induced a little earlier when it was obvious those kids were huge. Not to mention I can't see an OB not telling Jill, to be on the safe side, to come to the hospital for her second birth, try for the VBAC, but be ready for the c-section. 

Then again, it's possible an OB advised them on all of this and they chose not to listen because reasons, but I would hope their husbands (I know, I know) would have at least taken the doctor's advice into consideration. 

I have no doubt that they aren't getting adequate prenatal care, but 42 weeks is within the range of normal. It probably depends on the OB, but mine with my first pregnancy gave me the option of waiting until 42 weeks to schedule an induction if needed (but we knew DD1 was vertex and in the 6lb range, because I, you know, saw my OB regularly, unlike the J's). I also think there are a lot of OBs that wouldn't recommend induction just because of a large baby, especially if the mom doesn't want it...plenty of women are capable a delivering a big baby. A licensed midwife would be even more likely to let things proceed naturally. But no way would they allow Jill to attempt to deliver a huge transverse or breech baby or attempt a vbac at home after her first birth or not check for gestational diabetes. 

[Sew Sumi]

I just noticed that when someone quoted my post that I identified Anna's midwife as a CPM. NOT TRUE. I meant CNM, you know, the kind with real nursing degrees. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm aware that Anna had excellent care for Meredith before Joshgate hit when she was about 7 months gone. 

[GeeGolly]

My friend recently had a baby who weighed a little over 9lbs. Her OB said discussions about having a c-section due to baby size don't start until the baby is near 10lbs.  And size is an estimation, but with regular prenatal visits most estimates are pretty close, but still could by off by a pound.

Prenatal visits, by trained medical professionals, offer moms and babies the best chances for the best outcomes. Who wouldn't want that? Foregoing, or using casual prenatal care is reckless in my opinion.

The Duggars act as if prenatal care is only to find anomalies and that termination is the only suggested course of action. They're blinded by their righteousness and martyrdom. By making these pregnancies about themselves rather than the babies they put themselves and more importantly, their blessings at risk. 

[sleepysuzy]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My friend recently had a baby who weighed a little over 9lbs. Her OB said discussions about having a c-section due to baby size don't start until the baby is near 10lbs.  And size is an estimation, but with regular prenatal visits most estimates are pretty close, but still could by off by a pound.

Prenatal visits, by trained medical professionals, offer moms and babies the best chances for the best outcomes. Who wouldn't want that? Foregoing, or using casual prenatal care is reckless in my opinion.

The Duggars act as if prenatal care is only to find anomalies and that termination is the only suggested course of action. They're blinded by their righteousness and martyrdom. By making these pregnancies about themselves rather than the babies they put themselves and more importantly, their blessings at risk. 

The ACOG does not recommend early induction or csection based solely on suspected macrosomia. The last practice bulletin I saw on the topic said only to consider the option of csection if estimated weight is over 11 lbs, but it wasn't opposed to attempting vaginal delivery first. Lots of doctors do not follow these recommendations,  but evidence based practices do.

[floridamom]

As a lay person, not a medically trained one, BUT having had children myself, I would think the C-section discussion would come in to play depending on the 'size' of the mother vs the size of the baby. Perhaps a smaller built woman might need a C-section to deliver an 8.5 pound baby. Either way, the Duggar daughters have had too many situations that could have been avoided if they simply saw a properly trained medical person during their pregnancy and had they went to a hospital to deliver from the get go. IMO, it doesn't make them more godly, it makes them more stupid.

[Churchhoney]

8 minutes ago, floridamom said:

As a lay person, not a medically trained one, BUT having had children myself, I would think the C-section discussion would come in to play depending on the 'size' of the mother vs the size of the baby. Perhaps a smaller built woman might need a C-section to deliver an 8.5 pound baby. Either way, the Duggar daughters have had too many situations that could have been avoided if they simply saw a properly trained medical person during their pregnancy and had they went to a hospital to deliver from the get go. IMO, it doesn't make them more godly, it makes them more stupid.

I wonder to what extent they secretly -- or unconsciously? -- may also think it makes them more TeeVee-friendly?

I mean, what's TeeVee without excitement and drama? And they don't have that otherwise. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Churchhoney

[floridamom]

What mother in their right minds would gamble the safety of their 'being born' child for a TV moment? They really have no common sense. Of course they don't....look who their mother is.

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, floridamom said:

What mother in their right minds would gamble the safety of their 'being born' child for a TV moment? They really have no common sense. Of course they don't....look who their mother is.

Exactly. Seems clear to me that they don't understand the consequences of anything, really. Seems to me they truly are so dumb and thoughtless, by and large, that they don't make any connections in their heads regarding anything and they don't actually believe in cause and effect.

That's the only way I can explain why they go nuts about the horrors of Catholicism and gay marriage and front hugs while being completely blase about the potentially horrific consequences of fostering total ignorance in children, pinning all your financial hopes on one reality TeeVee show, and repeatedly courting disaster by having unmonitored pregnancies and unattended births. Etc. Etc. Etc. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My friend recently had a baby who weighed a little over 9lbs. Her OB said discussions about having a c-section due to baby size don't start until the baby is near 10lbs.  And size is an estimation, but with regular prenatal visits most estimates are pretty close, but still could by off by a pound.

Prenatal visits, by trained medical professionals, offer moms and babies the best chances for the best outcomes. Who wouldn't want that? Foregoing, or using casual prenatal care is reckless in my opinion.

The Duggars act as if prenatal care is only to find anomalies and that termination is the only suggested course of action. They're blinded by their righteousness and martyrdom. By making these pregnancies about themselves rather than the babies they put themselves and more importantly, their blessings at risk. 

Yeah...my daughter is getting nervous because with four weeks to go, her last sonogram estimated the baby as very close to 7 lb already, and her husband was a 10 lb baby himself, so she's afraid she'll be having to birth a monster.

[andromeda331]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Exactly. Seems clear to me that they don't understand the consequences of anything, really. Seems to me they truly are so dumb and thoughtless, by and large, that they don't make any connections in their heads regarding anything and they don't actually believe in cause and effect.

That's the only way I can explain why they go nuts about the horrors of Catholicism and gay marriage and front hugs while being completely blase about the potentially horrific consequences of fostering total ignorance in children, pinning all your financial hopes on one reality TeeVee show, and repeatedly courting disaster by having unmonitored pregnancies and unattended births. Etc. Etc. Etc. 

I agree. These people learned nothing from Josie's birth, nothing from what happened to Jubilee, Israel's birth, Spurgeon's birth, or Samuel's. The last three didn't have to happen if they had real prenatal care. Yes, it is a miracle the babies survived. Thanks to the doctors, nurses and everyone else at the hospital. Yes, God too. I don't doubt He helped until the poor innocent babies were finally in the hands of people who were competent. But they walk away thinking nothing of it. Zero impact on them zero thoughts on changing their plan of zero care until things go wrong.                  

[Barb23]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Exactly. Seems clear to me that they don't understand the consequences of anything, really. Seems to me they truly are so dumb and thoughtless, by and large, that they don't make any connections in their heads regarding anything and they don't actually believe in cause and effect.

That's the only way I can explain why they go nuts about the horrors of Catholicism and gay marriage and front hugs while being completely blase about the potentially horrific consequences of fostering total ignorance in children, pinning all your financial hopes on one reality TeeVee show, and repeatedly courting disaster by having unmonitored pregnancies and unattended births. Etc. Etc. Etc. 

How true.   God forbid courting couples hold hands or give front hugs yet its fine & dandy not to bother with proper prenatal care.

At least the Bates' girls still believe in  prenatal care & births. 

Hoping that maybe, just maybe, Kendra is getting proper prenatal  care.

[tabloidlover]

3 hours ago, floridamom said:

As a lay person, not a medically trained one, BUT having had children myself, I would think the C-section discussion would come in to play depending on the 'size' of the mother vs the size of the baby. Perhaps a smaller built woman might need a C-section to deliver an 8.5 pound baby. Either way, the Duggar daughters have had too many situations that could have been avoided if they simply saw a properly trained medical person during their pregnancy and had they went to a hospital to deliver from the get go. IMO, it doesn't make them more godly, it makes them more stupid.

I'm not a doctor, but I agree that the size of the mother comes into play as well.   My OB had thoughts that I might end up needing a C-section and after 2 hours of pushing with no progress, a C-section it was.  My son was only 6lbs 2oz.   But I'm short and have a small frame.   @doodlebug - your thoughts on this?

[Celia Rubenstein]

Joy still hasn't spit that kid out yet? Damn. She needs to get a move on.  Jessa is waiting to thunderjack her with her own pregnancy announcement! 

[FakeJoshDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Joy still hasn't spit that kid out yet? Damn. She needs to get a move on.  Jessa is waiting to thunderjack her with her own pregnancy announcement! 

Want to take bets if she’ll announce in her “congratulations” video? “Congratulations to Joy and Austin on the birth of their new blessing. They will have another cousin in four months because we’re expecting another blessing of our own soon!” Thunderjacker level up bonus points. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by FakeJoshDuggar

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Joy still hasn't spit that kid out yet? Damn. She needs to get a move on.  Jessa is waiting to thunderjack her with her own pregnancy announcement! 

Let's hope she doesn't go as far past her due date as we think Jill did.  Three days and counting.

[Fuzzysox]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Joy still hasn't spit that kid out yet? Damn. She needs to get a move on.  Jessa is waiting to thunderjack her with her own pregnancy announcement! 

Nope, because he/she is a typical Duggar bay-be that wants nothing to do with the real world and is cooking for a lot longer because of it.

[Sew Sumi]

She could have already had the baby but are waiting until tomorrow to announce so as to coincide with the show premiere.

[Temperance]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She could have already had the baby but are waiting until tomorrow to announce so as to coincide with the show premiere.

This seems possible, but unlikely. 

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She could have already had the baby but are waiting until tomorrow to announce so as to coincide with the show premiere.

You're probably right. They've done that with other announcements right? Like a short prerecorded commercial.

[Temperance]

But they can't be that stupid? The internet has been speculating for weeks that they would lie about when the baby was born to hide the birth being not quite nine months and they decide let's just show up at TLC photo/vlog shoot and look perfect holding a biggish baby. That'll keep people from talking! 

I don't remember them ever announcing a birth or anything else on TLC before announcing on the internet first.

Her sisters  both went over their due dates with their firsts* and that's what I believe is going on. 

*By that I meant both Jill and Jessa went over their due dates with Israel and Sprugeon, not their second sons. 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Temperance
clarity