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Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

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12 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Good point. Definitely JB's preferred lifestyle. 

Randomness is also a major tool of the manipulative power-trip kind of control freaks, in my experience. ....

When there's no structure or schedule, it's much easier to keep people totally off balance and to gaslight them. When nobody knows what to expect, they're on edge all the time and the person in charge can totally use that to their own advantage.

Plus, as JB exhibited, it's a joy to the autocrat in the venue without a schedule to be able to randomly yell into the PA system "Come down here now!" because that always comes as a nervous-making shock and interruption to whatever everybody's doing. And that's a great thrill for those who cherish pushing people around. 

 

Which is very interesting to me, because most large families I have come across are VERY scheduled and organized to keep chaos down. 
 

I had to explain this to a friend of mine who married into a large family (she’s from a small nuclear family like me).

“When you are a family of 6 you cannot ask everyone

‘what time do you want to eat breakfast?’ Because you’ll never settle on a time. You have to say-

‘Breakfast is at 8am’ and if people want to eat breakfast they will be there at 8am.”

When you grow up in a family of 2 or 3 it’s much more natural to ask “what time do you want to eat breakfast?” decide, and do it. 

So many of the Duggars act like they grew up in households of 2 or 3 people but without the work ethic. Only children for better or worse tend to be industrious because if we didn’t do xyz chore who could we blame? Our imaginary friend????? Our parents would have our hides because there was no one else to distract them from the things we didn’t do. I don’t see any type of work ethic (domestic or otherwise) in any of the Duggars. 

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5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which is very interesting to me, because most large families I have come across are VERY scheduled and organized to keep chaos down. 
 

I had to explain this to a friend of mine who married into a large family (she’s from a small nuclear family like me).

“When you are a family of 6 you cannot ask everyone

‘what time do you want to eat breakfast?’ Because you’ll never settle on a time. You have to say-

‘Breakfast is at 8am’ and if people want to eat breakfast they will be there at 8am.”

When you grow up in a family of 2 or 3 it’s much more natural to ask “what time do you want to eat breakfast?” decide, and do it. 

So many of the Duggars act like they grew up in households of 2 or 3 people but without the work ethic. Only children for better or worse tend to be industrious because if we didn’t do xyz chore who could we blame? Our imaginary friend????? Our parents would have our hides because there was no one else to distract them from the things we didn’t do. I don’t see any type of work ethic (domestic or otherwise) in any of the Duggars. 

I'll go you one further with the Duggars and eating. I don't even think they plan to plan - they just ate when they ate. I'm guessing Michelle just randomly said, at any given moment, "Okay girls, please go make lunch".

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Joy and Austin seem to make fundamentalism look good and that makes them dangerous. So far the reactions across the internet seem to be mostly positive and that's even from the snarkers at places like FJ.

Austin said in the video before the announcement that he's a commercial contractor, but he doesn't have license. They got the house from her parents. They're still deeply connected to both sets of fundie parents. Like a lot of of fundie parents, they lack boundaries, which may be why Jill read the book on boundaries. They show no signs of independent thinking.

Even if they stopped having kids before they reach double digits, this daughter could very well end up a sister mom. Look at Sarah Maxwell. Her parents only had eight kids and she has only five younger siblings, but she ended up doing a lot of sister-momming.

I see no signs that Joy and Austin are any less fundie than JB and Michelle. 

47 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Good point. Definitely JB's preferred lifestyle. 

Randomness is also a major tool of the manipulative power-trip kind of control freaks, in my experience. ....

When there's no structure or schedule, it's much easier to keep people totally off balance and to gaslight them. When nobody knows what to expect, they're on edge all the time and the person in charge can totally use that to their own advantage.

Plus, as JB exhibited, it's a joy to the autocrat in the venue without a schedule to be able to randomly yell into the PA system "Come down here now!" because that always comes as a nervous-making shock and interruption to whatever everybody's doing. And that's a great thrill for those who cherish pushing people around. 

But Steve and Teri prove that scheduling is easily just as effecitve or more effective way to manipulate, control people, etc. I agree with @Scarlett45; most fundies I know are more organized than chaotic. 

Edited by Temperance
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32 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which is very interesting to me, because most large families I have come across are VERY scheduled and organized to keep chaos down. 
 

 

Exactly. The Duggars aren't at all representative of the large families I've known either.

They are representative of quite a few mean-ass control-freak psychological-abuse-type households, though....In this randomness as in some other things. 

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1 hour ago, Temperance said:

 

But Steve and Teri prove that scheduling is easily just as effecitve or more effective way to manipulate, control people, etc. I agree with @Scarlett45; most fundies I know are more organized than chaotic. 

I didn't say scheduling doesn't work for control. I only said that chaos is something that works and is often used for mean-spirited control.......Obviously hyper-drive scheduling does work. But so does randomness of timing........I have lived this and have seen other people live it, so I know that it's true and I know how it works on people and why, as I explained.

.In addition, though, there are many ways other than having no schedule that control freaks use randomness to manipulate. Such as pretending that all their rules are ironclad and then suddenly randomly announcing that, today, people have broken rule x, when they've never mentioned rule x before, ever. I wouldn't in the least put it past Steve Maxwell to pull that kind of trick, for example. Especially on his wife. I'll bet Teri's heard about how she's broken a ton of Steve's rules that she never heard of before she supposedly broke them! That's randomness of another kind and I'd shocked if it were proven that Steve never uses it. 

 

On Joy and Austin -- I'm not going by how fundie they look. I don't think we have any real way to know how fundie they look, frankly. Seems to me we have little evidence, period, and that what we do have points in both directions, to some degree. 

And I depart completely from your assessment that they make fundie look good! I think they make it look horrible. Austin's sexism and Joy's submission to it absolutely sicken me. And while I think their work ethic looks better than those of most of the rest of the Duggar clan, I think Austin's fundie-ish side comes out big time -- and in a very bad way -- when he (probably) evades all regulations and standards in his work. That's fundie as hell to me, and, to me, it makes him a person who's a highly irresponsible to society -- for a religion-related reason......Not a good look or anything that makes fundie-ism look good for society or for its practitioners at all, in my opinion. 

I was arguing against the prediction that they'll surely get into the mid-double-digit kid area based on one thing -- as I repeatedly said. All I argued was that I think they will find the economic and lifestyle-related changes that come as they approach that very high number to be more than at least one of them -- my bet is Austin -- will want to put up with.....And that that is what I think will likely stop them before they get to the really high numbers..........

 I never said that they hadn't yet faced any "realities." I'm well aware that they've had a stillbirth and that that's a difficult reality.

But here in the third-and-rising-to-the fourth decade of the 21st century, given their economic and family situations. their earning potential, and so on? I don't think they really have a clue yet how economics, the lifestyle they'll be able to afford as more and more kids come, and just a day-to-day overcrowded living situation will really impact them on a daily basis, especially Austin, who comes from a small family.

That kind of discomfort is enough to have made a lot of people change their minds about "we'll have as many children as God gives us."

And they inherited this religion from their parents! So, unlike their parents, they can throw all or some of it overboard without feeling like idiots if they find it just too damn inconvenient....That's also something that's allowed a lot of second-generation cult-y people to walk or to bend the rules. And I don't see any evidence that it surely could not happen here. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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I agree both the strict structure and lack there of are forms of control.

I can't see joy and austin being total control freaks yet.

but given both sets of parents, if the TLC money ends, and if they have a bunch of kids maybe.

I think the Duggars would still be strict structure if not for the TLC money, filming schedule, free gifts, free travel etc

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Here's the thing. Fundie-ism (like all extreme religious sects) works for SOME PEOPLE. Austin and Joy might be that small subset where it works. I know some ultra-Orthodox/Hasidic Jews where they honestly cannot imagine a different way of life. They think the rest of the world is crazy for not living exactly like them. Others really struggled and left the community or modified their lifestyle. 

As for the dog collar it looks more like a bow that matches Gideon's seat. 

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According to AustinandJoy (their joint Instagram) that collar is for the electric fence. 

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22 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'll go you one further with the Duggars and eating. I don't even think they plan to plan - they just ate when they ate. I'm guessing Michelle just randomly said, at any given moment, "Okay girls, please go make lunch".

I even doubt this. I think they randomly grabbed a bowl whenever the spirit moved them and threw iceberg bagged lettuce in it and then drowned it in cheap ranch dressing. I honestly think I saw this back when I watched the show.

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18 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

To my knowledge,  Hasidic Jews do not also make a concerted effort to force others to conform to their rules or try to legally take rights away from others. Massive difference.

Uh ... yes they do. Not in the U.S. but in Israel their "modesty laws" has led to some tourists having stones thrown at them.

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It's all just a wait and see game with this bunch. Who continues to play this like it is Pokemon? Who finally gives in? We won't know for awhile. 

All we know for sure is that JB and Meech aren't going to be around forever. Neither will the TLC money. And if most of them think that they will get the same level of support from their parents that Smuggar and his family has, they all better think twice. I fully expect the TTH to go to Smugs and Anna, even if they are surpassed by JoKen and the Forsyths in number of children.

Another thing I fully expect. A full out fight among the 19 children once JB and Michelle pass away over who gets what. Those kids were played against each other big time. It is going to be one ugly fight. 

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I'm not sure Joy has figured out yet that her beliefs could interfere with someone else's rights. It seems to me Joy lives in her own little world, going through life day by day. I have no idea if Austin gets it or not.

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4 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

It's all just a wait and see game with this bunch. Who continues to play this like it is Pokemon? Who finally gives in? We won't know for awhile. 

All we know for sure is that JB and Meech aren't going to be around forever. Neither will the TLC money. And if most of them think that they will get the same level of support from their parents that Smuggar and his family has, they all better think twice. I fully expect the TTH to go to Smugs and Anna, even if they are surpassed by JoKen and the Forsyths in number of children.

Another thing I fully expect. A full out fight among the 19 children once JB and Michelle pass away over who gets what. Those kids were played against each other big time. It is going to be one ugly fight. 

Yep. Once Lolli and pops die it will get ugly quick. I agree Josh will probably get the bulk of the $.

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The money (and much of the property) is all tied up in a trust. I'm sure the trust delegates beneficiaries. That (and the tax breaks) are why one sets up a trust in the first place.

I wonder if Boob has seen his lawyer and changed things to disown Jill?

Edited by Sew Sumi
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1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

The money +and much of the property) is all tied up in a trust. I'm sure the trust delegates beneficiaries. That (,and the tax breaks) are why one sets up a trust in the first place.

I wonder if Boob has seen his lawyer and changed things to disown Jill?

If he hasn't by now, he certainly will, after reading this post.

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5 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Yep. Once Lolli and pops die it will get ugly quick. I agree Josh will probably get the bulk of the $.

I can see JB & M doing the opposite as well. Paying Josh back for the "sin in the camp", the attempted affairs, shutting down 19 and Counting. Letting Josh fend for himself when it no longer impacts JB & M.

 

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4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure Joy has figured out yet that her beliefs could interfere with someone else's rights. It seems to me Joy lives in her own little world, going through life day by day. I have no idea if Austin gets it or not.

When they show up in DC at right to “life” rallies, I think they are all aware that they are trying to legally take women’s rights away.

and didn’t Joy have some kind of DC “internship” not long before she got married? She must know exactly what those politicians want to do.

Edited by DangerousMinds
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2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

When they show up in DC at right to “life” rallies, I think they are all aware that they are trying to legally take women’s rights away.

and didn’t Joy have some kind of DC “internship” not long before she got married? She must know exactly what those politicians want to do.

My memory is it was the Arkansas state house and the internship was a week or a or something. 

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3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

My memory is it was the Arkansas state house and the internship was a week or a or something. 

Yeah, she went with Jed. It might not even have been a week, just a couple days.

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Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, she went with Jed. It might not even have been a week, just a couple days.

Probably as his accountability partner not because she had any interest in politics. Didn’t they “work” as pages for some Arkansas guy in DC too? Like for an afternoon?

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On 3/20/2020 at 2:25 PM, GeeGolly said:

I'll go you one further with the Duggars and eating. I don't even think they plan to plan - they just ate when they ate. I'm guessing Michelle just randomly said, at any given moment, "Okay girls, please go make lunch".

I don't think they even do that. I don't think they've had meals in that house since the days of "Love Offerings" and Tater Tot Casserole. I think people just grab food and eat whatever and whenever they want.

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on the topic of Duggars and eating

my local news showed an Aldis today where the shelves were almost completely bare.

the only items they had - about 20 loaves of Hillbilly bread and those frozen stouffers lasagna things. I thought "oh they still have a duggar meal!" 🤣

Edited by crazy8s
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On 3/21/2020 at 10:20 PM, DangerousMinds said:

When they show up in DC at right to “life” rallies, I think they are all aware that they are trying to legally take women’s rights away.

and didn’t Joy have some kind of DC “internship” not long before she got married? She must know exactly what those politicians want to do.

I think it may have been an Arkansas statehouse internship? And she was Jed!"s accountability partner mostly, probably. But whichever it was, yep -- I agree that pretty much anybody would have gotten the picture from that....especially when they'd been attending right-to-life events of many kinds since birth, approximately.... ...

Plus, there's Joy's rumored rebellion against their beliefs that also took place in the couple years or so before her marriage....So even though she has the reputation of being a dim bulb (I don't myself have any feeling at all about how bright she is or isn't...), she's clearly given something about their beliefs some level of independent thought, for a while, at least. Before Joe the Trained God Botherer pulled her back from whatever brink of independent thought she was on, of course....

I mean, they're all likely to believe that they're taking away something others claim as a right, but that's actually a murder and an abomination. And that what they're really doing is simply demanding that things be set right -- in the way God planned.....

But I've known pretty young kids who've gone to right-to-life marches who know that they're definitely telling some other person that they absolutely must not do something that they want to do.......And if that's not the definition of taking away something another person thinks of as a right, I don't  know what is.....

If you're protesting it, it's not a right to you. But it's still something that somebody else wants to do and believes they should be able to do, and you're saying NO, the law must prevent you from doing that. 

 

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I think it may have been an Arkansas statehouse internship? And she was Jed!"s accountability partner mostly, probably. But whichever it was, yep -- I agree that pretty much anybody would have gotten the picture from that....especially when they'd been attending right-to-life events of many kinds since birth, approximately.... ...

Plus, there's Joy's rumored rebellion against their beliefs that also took place in the couple years or so before her marriage....So even though she has the reputation of being a dim bulb (I don't myself have any feeling at all about how bright she is or isn't...), she's clearly given something about their beliefs some level of independent thought, for a while, at least. Before Joe the Trained God Botherer pulled her back from whatever brink of independent thought she was on, of course....

I mean, they're all likely to believe that they're taking away something others claim as a right, but that's actually a murder and an abomination. And that what they're really doing is simply demanding that things be set right -- in the way God planned.....

But I've known pretty young kids who've gone to right-to-life marches who know that they're definitely telling some other person that they absolutely must not do something that they want to do.......And if that's not the definition of taking away something another person thinks of as a right, I don't  know what is.....

If you're protesting it, it's not a right to you. But it's still something that somebody else wants to do and believes they should be able to do, and you're saying NO, the law must prevent you from doing that. 

 

 

 

And oddly enough, I’ve never seen any of them protest war or gun violence  and all the lives lost there.

or, you know, the death penalty. Shouldn’t they be working to convince prisoners to repent and be saved instead of supporting the state putting them to death?

Edited by DangerousMinds
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3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

And oddly enough, I’ve never seen any of them protest war or gun violence  and all the lives lost there.

or, you know, the death penalty. Shouldn’t they be working to convince prisoners to repent and be saved instead of supporting the state putting them to death?

But but THOSE aren't a FETUS. Surely you know your ideas are wrong, right? I actually won an argument with one of my cousins's dim spouses about this and convinced him that supporting the death penalty isn't exactly pro-life. Score one for me.

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6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Austin now his his own IG account. Oddly enough, Jinger is promoting it.

https://www.instagram.com/austin4site/?hl=en

 Is this the account that he had for years set private, then public, been scrubbed and now acts like it’s a new account?

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25 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

How is he a Texan?

495C146F-1942-4DB1-8472-010B21807D05.png

That's what I was wondering!

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I see he still claims to be a contractor despite there not being any evidence of him having a license?

 

Maybe he's Texan because his name is Austin. That's all I got.

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7 minutes ago, beckie said:

That's what I was wondering!

Does “Texan” have another meaning that we are not aware of? 😅

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Just now, DangerousMinds said:

Does “Texan” have another meaning that we are not aware of? 😅

Don't let the Texans hear that! They don't like people messing with Texas 😂

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They go to TX to visit family, so there's something there. Maybe he was born there and moved to AR as a child?

And yes, that's his old IG scrubbed clean, just like Jeremy's. 

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So Austin can have his own Insta? But Joy can't? The male controlling in this family/cult is too much. 

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6 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Don't let the Texans hear that! They don't like people messing with Texas 😂

No, we do not. And nope, he can't claim us if he wasn't born here. 🤣

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On 3/23/2020 at 5:59 PM, DangerousMinds said:

And oddly enough, I’ve never seen any of them protest war or gun violence  and all the lives lost there.

or, you know, the death penalty. Shouldn’t they be working to convince prisoners to repent and be saved instead of supporting the state putting them to death?

I think racism plays a huge part. 

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On 3/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, galaxychaser said:

Yep. Once Lolli and pops die it will get ugly quick. I agree Josh will probably get the bulk of the $.

Of course he will get the bulk of it. After all he is the chosen one. 

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:39 PM, Growsonwalls said:

Hey at least her SM handle isn’t “mrsaustinforsyth.” 

The video on TLC where she was glad to finally be Mrs. Austin Forsyth was cringe-worthy.

I guess she doesn't pay attention to the media when they still refer to her as Joy Duggar. 

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On 3/20/2020 at 1:17 PM, Zella said:

Jeremy doesn't have hustle, though. He seems quite averse to real work. I'm still floored by how little he managed to be at his church where he was "pastor." Jeremy strikes me as someone with lots of ambition but no actual drive to make it happen if it doesn't involve kissing a geriatric man's ass or posing on Instagram. 

At least he is trying to be an influencer and a kiss ass. He is trying to get income from a different source besides Jim Bob. That’s what I meant. He is hustling, he is failing but at least he is trying. The Duggar offspring just sits there like blobs procreating for Jesus listening to daddy and collecting their allowance from JB. 

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On 3/26/2020 at 8:03 PM, Fosca said:

A

 

Edited by Dimi1 · Reason: delete
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27 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Mirror in a brick wall?

 

I thought this was Jessa for a sec not Joy! 
Hmm spare room in their house they're doing up? 

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17 hours ago, Dimi1 said:

you wouldn't know...no one is supposed to know.. but ask my polish relatives who had to leave.......its there..... 

Why did they have to leave?  They should notify the local TV networks to get on this, because I see absolutely no hint of it anywhere other than sources that I wouldn't believe if they said that gravity works.  But this is certainly a better topic for another forum.

It's not just the Amish; Utah is in many ways a theocracy (particularly outside of Salt Lake City) and many states still follow blue laws.

It would be interesting for the Duggars to actually live in a culture that follows strictly the rules that they have been promoting; I suspect they would find it unpleasant, even the uber-followers like Austin.

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6 hours ago, Fosca said:

It would be interesting for the Duggars to actually live in a culture that follows strictly the rules that they have been promoting; I suspect they would find it unpleasant, even the uber-followers like Austin.

A world where everybody is as Godly as the next guy and the Duggars are nothing special? Where they go out dressed in their "modest" clothing and nobody gives them a second glance? Where they can't brag that they "do things a little differently" because everybody else is doing the same things? It would take all the fun out of being "Christian".

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