Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

"You're right, we know you're too small minded to live somewhere you have to interact with other, different people."

I'm not sure it's that...I would far, far rather live out in the country, and the idea of living in a city just gives me virtual hives. It's just a preference, and even within the Duggar family there are some on each end of the spectrum.

[JoanArc]

6 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I'm not sure it's that...I would far, far rather live out in the country, and the idea of living in a city just gives me virtual hives. It's just a preference, and even within the Duggar family there are some on each end of the spectrum.

Yes, but how world Joy know the difference?

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Yes, but how world Joy know the difference?

Jinger had enough experience with cities from all the TLC trips to know she wanted to live in a big city. Joy was on the same trips, so I think she does. I think Jessa and Joe are both in the "live where they don't have to mix with heathens" group. 

[doodlebug]

25 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Jinger had enough experience with cities from all the TLC trips to know she wanted to live in a big city. Joy was on the same trips, so I think she does. I think Jessa and Joe are both in the "live where they don't have to mix with heathens" group. 

I also think Joy has shown herself to love the outdoors and working with her hands doing building with Austin as well as hunting and camping and hiking.  I believe her when she says she prefers the country.

I've never lived in the country but I know it's not for me.

[Zella]

Yeah I am pretty sure when Joy and Austin say they'd rather live in the country it is a relatively informed decision. I'd 10 to 1 rather live in a rural area, and I knew that before my one good-faith attempt at city living. I like the peace and quiet and my privacy. Doesn't mean people who live in cities are doing anything wrong anymore than it means people living in rural areas are inherently narrow-minded and trying to avoid people who aren't like them. (Not that I don't think Joy and Austin are narrow-minded--they are, but preferring to live in the countryside doesn't inherently mean that.)

Edited October 19, 2019 by Zella

[LilJen]

That one brother--I think it's James (4th picture in the series above)--will ALWAYS look 12. Didn't he just turn 18?

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

That one brother--I think it's James (4th picture in the series above)--will ALWAYS look 12. Didn't he just turn 18?

He'll look 12 until he suddenly (and, inexplicably) starts to look 40. At the same time. In about six months.

[Temperance]

According to their social media, they didn't bring Gideon on the hunting trip. Lauren and Si and Austin's family watched Gideon while they were on their trip. 

[ginger90]

3 pictures:

[xwordfanatik]

Joy is really beautiful.  Giddyup is a cutie.

[queenanne]

28 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Joy is really beautiful.  Giddyup is a cutie.

Yes, he's getting more of her looks, even if things in the facial area aren't firmed up yet.  Between she and Austin, I predict their offspring will all have mighty chins, lol.  Austin's looks better with his beard and mustache, though - distracts from the nostrils.  He should keep it like that.

[xwordfanatik]

I used to think Jin was the prettiest, now IMO it's Joy.  I think one of the reasons is that Joy has more natural beauty, and doesn't use a shit-ton of makeup.  Joy's also down-to-earth. No pretension there.  (Looking at you especially, Lauren.)

I hope Joy's next pregnancy has a happy outcome, and that Austin will put the brakes on having double digit babies.  

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 hours ago, queenanne said:

Yes, he's getting more of her looks, even if things in the facial area aren't firmed up yet.  Between she and Austin, I predict their offspring will all have mighty chins, lol.  Austin's looks better with his beard and mustache, though - distracts from the nostrils.  He should keep it like that.

I actually think he looks like a total mini-me of Austin in that close-up photo. And still has some of that Norman Fell thing going.  I really don't see any of Joy in him at all in that photo, though there have been a couple along the way which do have a small hint of Duggar-ness. He'll probably grow into his face a bit more eventually, though, and the fact that he seems to be a very happy baby/toddler still makes him cute.

[leighdear]

I like that 2nd photo of Austin, above.  He's a nice looking young man, and I think will get better with age.  And I think that smile is real.  Joy looks good.  

I imagine Gideon will learn to hold a gun long before he learns to hold a pencil.  

[Zella]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

I like that 2nd photo of Austin, above.  He's a nice looking young man, and I think will get better with age.  And I think that smile is real.  Joy looks good.  

I imagine Gideon will learn to hold a gun long before he learns to hold a pencil.  

Unlike a few of the other son-in-laws, he pulls off the facial hair well. They both do look genuinely happy in pics, too--I didn't always think that in the beginning--but they seem to be in a good place in their marriage. 

[nightmeri]

I have noticed how Austin has slowly gained favor and thus been able to shake his “nostrils” moniker. This is how it’s done kids! I am looking at books/RFP when I say this as it is too late for Josh and Derrick. Although it may be too late for RFP to curry favor and/or show any charm at this point too. 

[FizzyPuff]

On 10/15/2019 at 3:22 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

Maybe, but these things have always seemed to be those which she naturally enjoyed, even when the family kind of forced her to break ties with the boys and be more feminine, so she may have really lucked out in finding a partner whose ideas of who she should be line up with what she already likes to do. It is unfortunate that he still wants her to do all those things while wearing dresses and skirts, though.

I don’t think Austin minds her wearing pants when they are hiking or skiing doing anything physical. She has posted a photo of her and Austin camping and she had pants on, it was only the bottom of their legs so she could’ve had a skirt over it. He was raised similar to her and I presume every woman he met wore skirts, I assume it would be alien to him for his wife to wear jeans all the time, so I give him a bit of a pass because of his upbringing. One day he might let her we don’t know 100% if it’s him though maybe Joy would rather wear skirts. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Puffin

[jcbrown]

14 hours ago, Puffin said:

I don’t think Austin minds her wearing pants when they are hiking or skiing doing anything physical. She has posted a photo of her and Austin camping and she had pants on, it was only the bottom of their legs so she could’ve had a skirt over it. He was raised similar to her and I presume every woman he met wore skirts, I assume it would be alien to him for his wife to wear jeans all the time, so I give him a bit of a pass because of his upbringing. One day he might let her we don’t know 100% if it’s him though maybe Joy would rather wear skirts. 

Okay, but the notion of one's husband "letting" one wear pants is appalling to me.
I hope she continues to be sufficiently pragmatic as to war pants where it makes total sense to do so (athletic activities, e.g.) at the very least. And I hope they both feel fine about it.

[GeeGolly]

Austin has been nothing, if not genuine and real. He strikes me as the Fundiest of them all though. Not an outspoken, Tweeting, political Fundy, but more of a backwoods, redneck Fundy. Sometimes the quiet ones turn out to be the scary ones.

Not saying necessarily scary for Joy, but scary in his (& her) beliefs.

[madpsych78]

Someone on another thread posted that they saw Ben as potentially being the most underground abusive because sometimes the most passive husbands are the most abusive behind the scenes. I don't agree with this premise regarding Ben (it is Jessa, after all!) but I could see this with Austin.

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Someone on another thread posted that they saw Ben as potentially being the most underground abusive because sometimes the most passive husbands are the most abusive behind the scenes. I don't agree with this premise regarding Ben (it is Jessa, after all!) but I could see this with Austin.

I actually see Austin as the guy who somehow comes across as a bit cold, but is in reality about as kind and supportive as this type gets. I really got a kind of bad vibe from him at first, but aside from all the Fundie baggage, he seems to really love Joy and Gideon, and to share in the suffering when they lost Annabel. I think it was those photos that really softened him in my eyes...there was something really genuine there.

I also think that Ben is likely quite sweet as well. Sure, there are the attitudes which come with his beliefs, which can be majorly off-putting, but at heart, I think he is very caring toward his family.

[Zella]

3 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

I actually see Austin as the guy who somehow comes across as a bit cold, but is in reality about as kind and supportive as this type gets. I really got a kind of bad vibe from him at first, but aside from all the Fundie baggage, he seems to really love Joy and Gideon, and to share in the suffering when they lost Annabel. I think it was those photos that really softened him in my eyes...there was something really genuine there.

I also think that Ben is likely quite sweet as well. Sure, there are the attitudes which come with his beliefs, which can be majorly off-putting, but at heart, I think he is very caring toward his family.

Yeah I agree with you 100%. I made a lot of serial killer jokes about Austin in the beginning, but his entire demeanor really seems to have changed. I think he's calmed down and is more comfortable in his role as husband and father, and I really do not get an abusive vibe from him--or Ben--at all. He and Joy seem very genuinely happy together, and I think the tragedy of losing Annabel has brought them even closer together. 

I think Jeremy's probably a bit of an insufferable control freak, but I don't really think he's abusive either. The only male Duggar in-law I wonder about really in that regard is Derick. I doubt he is physically abusive, but it would not surprise me at all if he is mentally/emotionally abusive.

[Fosca]

15 hours ago, Zella said:

The only male Duggar in-law I wonder about really in that regard is Derick. I doubt he is physically abusive, but it would not surprise me at all if he is mentally/emotionally abusive.

To be honest (and a bit cruel), I'd be surprised if he WASN'T emotionally abusive in some way.  He just seems to be the type to take out his frustrations and anger on a convenient target who can't/won't fight back.  And if much of it goes over her head?  Even better, which is why I think he's much more of an emotional abuser than a physical one.

I didn't like Austin, and I'm still not sure that I do, but I don't think he'd be that way to Joy.  I hope they're both happy with who/what they have, and I think they are.  Derick?  Not so much.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Fosca

[Barb23]

Happy 22nd Birthday Joy!

[crazy8s]

On 10/25/2019 at 4:13 PM, Fosca said:

I didn't like Austin, and I'm still not sure that I do, but I don't think he'd be that way to Joy.  I hope they're both happy with who/what they have, and I think they are.  Derick?  Not so much.

Austin seems to be, and seems to be happy being, the person he was courting Joy. She also seems happy with that. 

Jer got Jin and is on the path he wanted.

Bin maybe is or maybe isn't

Derrick, the great missionary, I do think he wanted to drift through life traveling the world and thought the duggar name, TLC and/or jill's midwifery skills would help him. It didn't, now he is stuck and unhappy.

[ginger90]

[Sew Sumi]

[BitterApple]

Jed isn't a particularly brilliant wordsmith, but his message to Joy was sweet and personal. 

[galaxychaser]

I thought I would read a pregnancy announcement!

[jcbrown]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Jed isn't a particularly brilliant wordsmith, but his message to Joy was sweet and personal. 

I agree. That is one of the more authentic Duggar birthday tweets I've seen.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

I thought I would read a pregnancy announcement!

Why?

[Zella]

I think it might be the first Duggar sibling birthday wish that actually seems like they are friends. 

[Sew Sumi]

Jill's message made it clear that she wouldn't be having cake with the rest of family during the weekly Monday family gathering. I wonder if she's been to any of them?

[Temperance]

Austin is still a very fundie son-in-law and fundamentalism is dangerous. Austin and Joy both seem resistant to change and clinging to their beliefs. My concern about Austin is can he and Joy make decisions that go against their fundie upbringing? Like if the doctor wanted them to slow or stop the baby train for medical reasons; would they be able to do it? Austin's parents have two kids, but they got married later and it's possible they just weren't blessed with more. Or they were less fundie during their child-bearing years and later got into IBLP and Quiverfull doctrine. 

Happy Birthday Joy! She's 22. I'm sorry she didn't get more of life before she got married and have a baby. It's worth noting that on their 22nd birthdays, only one of her sisters was married. That sister was Jessa and she was married a few days and not pregnant (Spurgeon was born a full year later).

There was a video of bonus footage from John and Abbie's honeymoon (posted by TLC). They showed Joy and Austin talking about their honeymoon. Austin tried to eat at restaurants they'd heard of on the honeymoon. Austin thinks there should be law requiring American food chains in all the countries. 

[DangerousMinds]

A law? LMAO. 

Austin lost me with his social media plug for that hateful "Freedomists" group. Don't be fooled.

[ginger90]

[BetyBee]

8 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

"Dating" since she was 17.  Interesting!

[Jeeves]

16 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

"Dating" since she was 17.  Interesting!

Yeah, that was a big slip, Austin. IMO all those IBLP people are hypocrites and liars. They have this whole arranged marriage anti-premarital-sex system, which in some cultures actually works not too badly in setting up stable marriages. However, in those cultures they are honest about it. But the IBLP crowd can't be honest; they dress it up as "courting" with an overlay of "prince charming" romantic bullcrap, and preach that God is "sending" the couple to each other. And if they follow God's (IBLP's) rules, they will be blessed. Like, putting the right change in a vending machine and getting the goods you paid for. Gag me.

And of course, in hindsight, Austin, knowing he's a teevee stah with a wider following, tries to make it sound mainstream. "Dating," my *ss.

OTOH, I think that Austin and Joy are compatible and had a strong attraction to each other, and despite all the IBLP no-fun-for-kids rules, probably had a chance to get to know each other a bit as they grew up in the same circles there in Arkansas. 

[galaxychaser]

And no mention of Annabelle.  I’m impressed. 

[Whyyouneedaname]

why would Carlin use this pic as a Happy Birthday??  I'm sure there are a ton more of them together. 

[allonsyalice]

Joy said Carlin asked her for permission. She doesn't want to pretend the pregnancy never happened.

(grabbed from a fb group im in!)

Edited October 29, 2019 by allonsyalice

[Whyyouneedaname]

9 minutes ago, allonsyalice said:

Joy said Carlin asked her for permission. She doesn't want to pretend the pregnancy never happened.

(grabbed from a fb group im in!)

Thanks, I never read the comments lol 😉 

[cdp73]

I'm impressed that Carlin had the sense to ask about using that picture.  Based on Joy's comment, she seems to be the most mature of all the Duggar married women.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, allonsyalice said:

Joy said Carlin asked her for permission. She doesn't want to pretend the pregnancy never happened.

(grabbed from a fb group im in!)

Good for Joy.  She seems to have a healthy attitude about the loss of her daughter.  And good for Austin, keeping the focus on the child they do have as they celebrate Joy's birthday.  Compare and contrast with She Who Must Not be Named's approach to her pregnancy loss.

[Temperance]

So Austin was "dating" Joy when she was 17. They're not that close in age. On her 17th birthday, Austin would have been 20. Less than 2 months later, he was 21. It's almost 4 years and a bigger age difference than Ben and Jessa. 

This whole relationship has stunk of "arranged marrige" and that's even more true with the revelation that this relationship started years before they announced and she was underage. (I had friends who dated older guys at 17, but they weren't sheltered homeschooled fundies, they were teenagers who dating for years and ran their own lives).

I still remember being struck by Joy's comment that her relationship and her future were entirely up to "Austin and her dad". I also remember how she seemed to have very little in goals and dreams. She probably knew that her parents had arranged for her to marry Austin and that's all she was suppose to want. 

This is a big deal imo. Austin is lucky his other brothers-in-law are causing more of a fuss with their Kanye West obssession. 

[momma2seven]

I did a quick search and found this speculation that Counting On had already fudged the courting start date...putting it at August 2016, a few months before they announced in November.

https://duggardata.tumblr.com/post/172185408927/when-did-joystin-start-courting

but by Austin's birthday post is sounds more like August 2015 and they fudged the date by well over a year and had already slipped up a few times during filming.

[Jeeves]

21 minutes ago, Temperance said:

So Austin was "dating" Joy when she was 17. They're not that close in age. On her 17th birthday, Austin would have been 20. Less than 2 months later, he was 21. It's almost 4 years and a bigger age difference than Ben and Jessa. 

This whole relationship has stunk of "arranged marriage"

Of course it's an arranged marriage. That's what the IBLP crowd does. They just dress it up as "courting" and sprinkle it with fundie talk about God's will etc. The only Duggarlings whose marriages were arguably not arranged by JB were Jinger and JD. (Derick and Ben presented themselves to JB as potential husbands for Duggar daughters but JB was always the decider as to who would be allowed to court and/or marry one of his chattels daughters.)

And even Jinger's marriage involved Jeremy getting JB's "consent to court" Jinger although they'd managed to meet kind of under JB's radar. And JD ended up with a woman who comes from an IBLP family. 

At least Austin and Joy knew each other through their families, probably for several years. I can't get my shorts in a knot over their age difference. It's not like Austin was some 20 year old hoodlum sneaking a 16 year old Joy out of her bedroom window at night to go out partying. I think they were actually attracted to each other, so that when JB and Austin's dad brokered the marriage deal, it wasn't like JB was handing Joy over to a middle-aged rapist. Joy has seemed content with her marriage. Sure, there's a whole big world out there that she didn't have a chance to explore vs. getting married at age 18 or whatever it was, but that's how the Duggars roll.

[Angeltoes]

Quote

Derick and Ben presented themselves to JB as potential husbands for Duggar daughters but JB was always the decider as to who would be allowed to court and/or marry one of his chattels daughters.

Supposedly the daughters have final say when it comes to the courting/marrying.  JB can suggest strongly but the girls can veto.  This must be true or Jana would have been auctioned off married a long time ago.

[galaxychaser]

16 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jill's message made it clear that she wouldn't be having cake with the rest of family during the weekly Monday family gathering. I wonder if she's been to any of them?

Maybe D forbids it. Or she is estranged from family. 

[Temperance]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Of course it's an arranged marriage. That's what the IBLP crowd does. They just dress it up as "courting" and sprinkle it with fundie talk about God's will etc. The only Duggarlings whose marriages were arguably not arranged by JB were Jinger and JD. (Derick and Ben presented themselves to JB as potential husbands for Duggar daughters but JB was always the decider as to who would be allowed to court and/or marry one of his chattels daughters.)

And even Jinger's marriage involved Jeremy getting JB's "consent to court" Jinger although they'd managed to meet kind of under JB's radar. And JD ended up with a woman who comes from an IBLP family. 

At least Austin and Joy knew each other through their families, probably for several years. I can't get my shorts in a knot over their age difference. It's not like Austin was some 20 year old hoodlum sneaking a 16 year old Joy out of her bedroom window at night to go out partying. I think they were actually attracted to each other, so that when JB and Austin's dad brokered the marriage deal, it wasn't like JB was handing Joy over to a middle-aged rapist. Joy has seemed content with her marriage. Sure, there's a whole big world out there that she didn't have a chance to explore vs. getting married at age 18 or whatever it was, but that's how the Duggars roll.

I actually the whole they knew each other for years makes it worse. They started dating when she was 17. The marriage could have been arranged when they were younger; there were rumors Josh Duggar was engaged at younger age before Anna. But maybe the match wasn't made until she was 17. There's still a good possibility that the attraction didn't come first; that they were pushed in each other's direction and then they decided they liked each other.  Joy, in particular, seems like a very indecisive and susceptible to suggestion.