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S01.E08: The Results

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I'm not liking this show as much as I used to.  It's all a bit predictable.  It was really obvious that MacLeish was being blackmailed by the Mysterious Lady just like how she blackmailed Atwood.  Would not at all be surprised to see Hookstraten at the centre of it.

Glad that Hannah figured it out, and smart of Atwood to tip her off about a kidnapping case so she would understand what was going on.  However, why didn't she immediately tell the President once she figured it out?

Agree that I don't understand why Atwood didn't pass the President a resignation letter that contained the words "I'm being blackmailed".

I couldn't give two shits about Leo.  He looks like a Neanderthal.  I would not at all be surprised if the DNA test revealed that Tom is not his biological father.  Did he actually give the test results to the reporter?  If so, he could easily have made one up.

8 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Since D.C. has one Representative, who can't vote, and no Senators, the last of voters at the D.C. polling station should not have been surprising. What with all that ricin going around...

 BTW - whatever happened to the "Leo is a drug dealer" storyline?  

I assumed that he lived in Virginia when he was a Secretary, had established Virginia residence, and was voting at a polling place at wherever he is registered in Virginia.

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There are just way, way too much going on with this show and I don't care about most of it.  At this point, I think I'm going to stick through the next episode (is that the winter finale) and, unless something turns around, I'm out of here after that.  Frankly, the only thing I care about it is what Hannah is up to.  Honestly, if they got rid of everyone except Hannah and maybe Kimball, I'd be happy.

And, I'm sorry, every time McLeish shows up on the screen, all I see is a certain IRL politician....sigh!

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20 hours ago, Moose135 said:

Last week - I think - they were saying it was 6 weeks since the bombing. Since the SOTU is usually held in mid to late January, it should be March by now, not February 7.  Also, when the Kirkmans were getting ready to leave for the polls, the newscast was talking about "when the polls open at 6:30am"  It was way too bright outside to be that early in DC in February (or even March).

 

Usually you see the President voting in his home state, which I think is New York for Kirkman.  As you noted, DC doesn't have a Congress member, although they could have been voting for the district's non-voting representative.  That said, I don't think they would have been voting in DC.  And what's with going places in that black Suburban all the time - POTUS has a big ass, armor-plated limousine to travel in.  With everything going on in the world, there's no way the Secret Service don't use it.

 

A little bit about how the family is dealing with being thrust into the spotlight would be sufficient, but the "drama" of the paternity issue, the drug dealing, FLOTUS poking her nose into various affairs of state, I can do without.  It does make me wonder though, has the First Daughter gone off to Mandyland?

 

She's waiting for the next international crisis to drop that little nugget on him.

One other nitpick, maybe they should have covered the Canadian registration on the helicopter they used when they were moving the terrorist's body.  I checked it - I'm an aviation geek, it's what I do - and it is an actual registration, owned by a company in Toronto.  I know they film up there, but you can at least try.

I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to stay with this.  It seemed like a great concept, but it's quickly heading off the tracks - the family drama, the incredibly inept FBI investigation, a President who gets twisted up in knots when he has to decide between cereal or eggs for breakfast...

Aaron Sorkin has ruined me for any other White House show.  I kept comparing (unfavorably) Kirkman's press conference speech to President Shepherd's at the end of The American President and the way the Secret Service agent handled the reporter who ambushed Zoey Bartlett on campus in The West Wing.

Small point... In real life, President Obama has never (that I remember) gone back to Chicago to vote since he's been President (neither have Mrs. Obama nor her mother, who lives in the White House with them). They also haven't been shown on the news voting at a DC precinct (like we saw the Clintons & Trumps in NY, Kaine in VA, & Pence here in IN this election, & other nominees in their home states in other elections). Presumably the Obamas vote Absentee; but I'm not sure they could vote Absentee in Illinois for 8 years or not--I don't know their laws about that. They might have had to change their voter registrations to DC since they've been in the White House, & 'cause they'll still be living there after they leave the WH & the next bunch comes in since Sasha's still got another year or 2 at her DC school & they don't wanna make her change schools in midstream at this point (maybe it was easier--& more necessary, obviously--when he was going into the office & the girls were 8 years/school grades younger, than it is now that his youngest is in High School & he's leaving office).

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16 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Small point... In real life, President Obama has never (that I remember) gone back to Chicago to vote since he's been President (neither have Mrs. Obama nor her mother, who lives in the White House with them). They also haven't been shown on the news voting at a DC precinct (like we saw the Clintons & Trumps in NY, Kaine in VA, & Pence here in IN this election, & other nominees in their home states in other elections). Presumably the Obamas vote Absentee; but I'm not sure they could vote Absentee in Illinois for 8 years or not--I don't know their laws about that. They might have had to change their voter registrations to DC since they've been in the White House, & 'cause they'll still be living there after they leave the WH & the next bunch comes in since Sasha's still got another year or 2 at her DC school & they don't wanna make her change schools in midstream at this point (maybe it was easier--& more necessary, obviously--when he was going into the office & the girls were 8 years/school grades younger, than it is now that his youngest is in High School & he's leaving office).

My sister voted absentee in Illinois from Canada (where she has lived since 1970) until this one because she had to renounce her US citizenship a couple of years ago when the US law changed so that she had to pay US income tax on her Canadian earnings. 

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13 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

That's definitely not how it works in the United States.  You have to vote at your officially-designated polling place.  If you're unexpectedly in the hospital and didn't vote by absentee ballot in advance, then you have to get an emergency absentee ballot.

Elected officials (yes, I understand that Kirkland was not elected) and candidates voting publicly and in-person is an unofficial part of the job. It sends a message about the open system of elections  in the U.S. and creates good "optics."  POTUS could legally vote by absentee ballot but that's not a good option when he can get a nice photo op at the polls.

The White House cannot be a polling station.  Polling places have to be in a public location that's open to all during all hours that the polls are open and those hours are determined by the state, or in the case of DC, the district.  While the White House is technically a public building, it's certainly not wide open to all and couldn't be for the 12 hours or so that polls are typically open.

Some states, like here in Indiana, have "early voting in person". You vote in the building where your local election board is housed, if not in their office, & you don't have to have a reason to use this option, like "I'll be out of town on Election Day", like when you wanna vote mail-in absentee here; you can vote early in person here simply if you feel like it. Demand for this type of voting was so great in my city this past election that they opened up "satellite" early voting sites at 4 branches of our public library. So you don't always vote at your designated polling place if you don't wanna use the mail-in absentee vote option. And, as was mentioned in the Politics forum, some states don't even have polling places any longer; they vote strictly via mail-in ballot even if you're not voting absentee (I think Colorado is 1 of the states that was mentioned as doing this).

Also... The POTUS character's last name is Kirkman, not Kirkland.

Edited by BW Manilowe · Reason: To add a comment.
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I wish they would just finish the Capitol bombing conspiracy plotline already and move on to other things. It's getting very tiring at this stage all the feints and the contrived redirects this show is going through to continue one of the worst "mysteries" I've ever seen.

I used to think the FBI on The Blacklist was bad. This one is getting up there.

What I don't get about Jason Atwood is how he can let the Conspirators play him so easily. Surely he knows a lot of the tricks they'd be willing to pull, and he'd have some way to communicate with his most trusted agents (like by using a codeword or a code phrase) to let them know that he's been compromised and give them a hint in order to solve it.

I also don't understand how Atwood couldn't call them out on their bluff...surely he'd know that by confessing his "crime" to the President that he'd be sent away to prison and there'd be no way he'd ever know if his son made it out alive (I believe the show said he was in a maximum security prison and was allowed no visitors).

Hannah Wells isn't blameless either. Since she figured out that Atwood was compromised and likely being manipulated by a shadowy group, surely she'd know that going on top of a warehouse rooftop- where she could be spotted- isn't a bright idea. Along with bringing her gigantic, totally not nondescript Nikon camera to take some pictures. Doesn't the warehouse she broke into have windows she could shoot from?

Oh, and why are the Conspirators risking getting spotted by planning a meeting at a warehouse where other buildings are around. Surely a dirt road deep into the bushes would be better.

Big ups, though, to Kimble Hookstraten for cluing in to Peter MacLeish being in on the bombing. At least someone's got a brain. Minor quibble is that she said to his face that she'd "figure him out" but, since this isn't a book, I had to let that go since the dramatic punch wouldn't quite be there if she kept that line to herself.

(I hope this starts Hookstraten down the path to becoming a bit more of an ally to President Tom Kirkman. Virginia Madsen is just too brilliant to not be a talent used long-term)

Then there were the other plots...which I think worked a bit better because they were more easily self-contained. The whole ricin thing seems oddly pertinent now that the U.S.' actual election is being accused of having been compromised, although I doubt the writers knew the recounts would happen when they wrote the episode. I'm glad the Leo Kirkman drama is sorted out, especially since it played out as I thought it would. Kind of sad to see Seth Wright send Lisa Jordan to the proverbial curb, although I completely understand why it happened. I just hope that they make up at some point, since Wright and Jordan have a lot of sparks.

Having said all that...what I keep coming back to is Kiefer Sutherland. He is quite the talent, able to balance the ridiculousness of all the absurdities that happen around him and deliver it with the gravitas that just makes it seem real and important. He was a bit of a scenery chewer in this one, but at least I'm getting an unshakeable sincerity in his performance. I think he's really kept me invested in this show and it may just be enough for me not to jump ship and try something new in the New Year, because if anyone can sell me this show's ridiculousness, it's Sutherland.

Oh...and one last point. The show said the election was being held on "Wednesday February 7". The next time a February 7 lands on a Wednesday is in 2018.

Episode Grade: B-. A lot of things are getting out of hand, but Sutherland's performance allowed me to work through it.

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1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

...Kind of sad to see Seth Wright send Lisa Jordan to the proverbial curb, although I completely understand why it happened. I just hope that they make up at some point, since Wright and Jordan have a lot of sparks....

I thought I saw the reporter telegraphing to the audience that she was playing Seth and not really attracted to him.

 

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

 ...The show said the election was being held on "Wednesday February 7". The next time a February 7 lands on a Wednesday is in 2018.

I wonder when the script was written — probably before Trump looked like a viable candidate (before IRL election night 2016).

 

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I wish they would just finish the Capitol bombing conspiracy plotline already and move on to other things. It's getting very tiring at this stage all the feints and the contrived redirects this show is going through to continue one of the worst "mysteries" I've ever seen....

The Osama Bin Laden saga dragged on for years — maybe the writers are too young to remember how tedious that was IRL. 

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On 11/30/2016 at 8:26 PM, qtrim said:

I think the mysterious called to Hannah is Beth MacLeish. Peter and Beth's daughter went missing the night of the attack. Peter was called on the phone and told to hide in the special room and then do what he's told or his daughter would be harmed. Beth knows all of this because Peter has told her. She's tipping off Hannah. She has Hannah's phone number from when Hannah went to question Peter.

The problem with this theory is how would Beth MacLeish know that Hannah was on her way to meet the president’s chief of staff in order to warn her against saying anything? Her husband couldn’t have told her since he didn’t seem to know anything when he met mystery woman in the park afterwards.

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11 hours ago, Netfoot said:

With whom?  Buddy?  It's easy to love him!  Until...

Yah been there done that but no matter how much trouble they get into, we still love them  ?❤️?

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6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I hope this starts Hookstraten down the path to becoming a bit more of an ally to President Tom Kirkman. Virginia Madsen is just too brilliant to not be a talent used long-term

I hope so - half the time she's meeting with Kirkman, I can almost see her twirling her mustache like Dastardly Whiplash...

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Seriously it took the congresswoman THAT LONG to figure he was gunning for VP in the hopes that Kirkman resigns or is forced out and then he takes over?  I know we are more in the loop about him than she is, but I figured both her and the VP traitor were thinking along those lines. 

I've decided to just stop expecting a serious realistic drama from this and just enjoy it on a B level ride with ridiculous, soap operish twists and turns.  Its what its providing anyway.  House of Cards its not. 

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11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The Osama Bin Laden saga dragged on for years — maybe the writers are too young to remember how tedious that was IRL. 

My problem with the Capitol Bombing plot is that it involves too many people doing stupid things and almost willingly stall the investigation that it's become irritating. I don't believe we're really seeing a set of Conspirators who are really good at outsmarting people...just the writers deciding that the FBI should only be smart and savvy when the plot calls for it.

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21 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Some states, like here in Indiana, have "early voting in person". You vote in the building where your local election board is housed, if not in their office, & you don't have to have a reason to use this option, like "I'll be out of town on Election Day", like when you wanna vote mail-in absentee here; you can vote early in person here simply if you feel like it. Demand for this type of voting was so great in my city this past election that they opened up "satellite" early voting sites at 4 branches of our public library. So you don't always vote at your designated polling place if you don't wanna use the mail-in absentee vote option. And, as was mentioned in the Politics forum, some states don't even have polling places any longer; they vote strictly via mail-in ballot even if you're not voting absentee (I think Colorado is 1 of the states that was mentioned as doing this).

Also... The POTUS character's last name is Kirkman, not Kirkland.

You are right, kind of, about early voting, though nothing I said contradicts that.

I have not read the Politics forum, but you are wrong that some states do not having polling places. All states offer the option of in-person voting on Election Day.  In Colorado, the state you mention, everyone gets a mail-in ballot to use if they so choose, but they still have the option of choosing to show up in person on election (see Colorado Secretary of State website).  

And there would never be voting in a private place, like the White House. President Obama actually early voted this year.  And he did so in his hometown of Chicago.

People who are unexpectedly in the hospital could not vote in a temporary polling place in the lobby.  For one thing, hospitalized patients would be residents of many different local jurisdictions and voting in the United States is managed by local cities and towns and governed by each state. In fact, there is actually no such thing as a Federal election in the United States.  

This is where Canada is very different with the nation-wide Elections Canada agency overseeing elections.

Thanks for correcting the name of the character. You were right about that.

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22 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Small point... In real life, President Obama has never (that I remember) gone back to Chicago to vote since he's been President (neither have Mrs. Obama nor her mother, who lives in the White House with them). 

Big point, in real life, President Obama did go back to Chicago to vote twice while a sitting president.

President Obama casts early vote in Chicago between fundraisers - October 9, 2016

President Obama Votes in Chicago - October 26, 2012

Edited by RemoteControlFreak

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I find myself rolling my eyes and thinking "Jack Bauer would not put up with this shit!" or something similar constantly during this show.  Every time Kirkman is duped or waffles on a decision or just looks like a putz my patience is worn thin.  At this point I'm only in it for Kiefer and I'm not sure how long that's going to last.

 

22 hours ago, Netfoot said:

With whom?  Buddy?  It's easy to love him!  Until...

The younger of my two is only still alive because she's so damn cute.  Buddy looks like he has a lot of fun and gets to do a lot of cool things.

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I doubt in a situation like this with a special election called so quickly they would have any chance to set up early or extended or much of any special voting.  I think it would be one day, only chance. 

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2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I find myself rolling my eyes and thinking "Jack Bauer would not put up with this shit!" or something similar constantly during this show.  Every time Kirkman is duped or waffles on a decision or just looks like a putz my patience is worn thin.

I completely agree.  It's painful to see KS in this role.  I can't imagine why he accepted such a role.  If he started off as President Milquetoast and developed just a little bit more spine each episode, I might find it more entertaining.  But this is episode 8/22 and he's still sniffling about collateral damage, when the country is in crisis.  Honestly, I am at a loss to predict what is going to happen in this show.  Other than nobody mentioning the bomb-shelter to him before he appoints MacLeish as VP.  And of course, at some point Hookstraten will make a play for his job...

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Buddy looks like he has a lot of fun and gets to do a lot of cool things.

He rides with me in the car all the time, and when I get where I'm going, so long as I think it's safe for him (and for the world at large) I let him out to explore.  He's a bit stir-crazy right now, because our regular mid-week trip to the country got cancelled because of unusually heavy rain, and tomorrow's regular trip is off, because I have to make an aeroport run.  (When you buy a van, all your friends suddenly have cargo that needs transporting!)

When he was little he was dog-napped.  Seriously.  But the next morning, he was back!  The dog-nappers just got tired of beating him and they brought him home instead.  That was when he was a baby, only a few weeks before he broke his leg.  Which happened because he dug his way out, under the wire, like Steve McQueen.  

Need to take a few more photos of him!  But my camera doesn't get back from New Zealand until tomorrow...

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4 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

People who are unexpectedly in the hospital could not vote in a temporary polling place in the lobby.  For one thing, hospitalized patients would be residents of many different local jurisdictions and voting in the United States is managed by local cities and towns and governed by each state. In fact, there is actually no such thing as a Federal election in the United States.  

Bingo! When Aaron said something about a Federal election never having been cancelled, I wanted to say "that's because there's never BEEN a Federal election, dumbass!" No one, unless he or she was an Presidential elector, has EVER voted for a candidate for national office (i.e., the president or vice-president.) We vote ONLY for state and local officials, representatives and senators in Congress, and presidential ELECTORS. (And all of this talk about the popular vote is just for entertainment purposes, as it means nothing and no one is officially tabulating it on the national level.)  All voting in the US is done at the state and local level, and the president has absolutely no say in the matter. If a state wanted to cancel the election within its borders, the president would have no authority to countermand that decision.

And frankly, given that so many refuse to vote even when there are no threats to their health, I found it hard to believe that they had much of a turnout at all, especially since they were only voting for two people at the most. And how did they circumvent all of the rules about primaries and runoffs? Again, every state would have its own rules for these situations.

And with respect to the DNA subplot-- wouldn't Leo (or anyone in his situation) want to know who his biological father was if only for health and genetic reasons?

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1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

 I can't imagine why he accepted such a role.

My guess is that he was a bit tired of the 24 typecasting, and wanted to showcase a bit.  I wonder if he was given a complete briefing on the entire season or just assurances from the producers about the growth of the character.

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Hmm... after thinking the last episode was back on the right track, this was all over the place.  The direction they've gone with the Atwood stuff is just confusing.  I get he is concerned for his son, but unless he thinks this mysterious organization as bugged everything he touches and every place he goes too, there isn't some way to try and get help.  Slip Kirkman a note?  Leave something in a drop zone for Hannah to find?  He just seems to have been defeated way too easily, and I would think the head of the FBI would have tried other ways then just towing the line.  How does even know they're actually going to keep their word?  If anything, they'll probably continue to hold onto the son, in order to keep him in line.

Any scene with Leo was stupid.  I just don't care for him and the drama over if Kirkman is his bio dad.  At least they seemed to resolve it, but that was a waste of time.  And there is still the whole drug dealing thing, so I'm sure he'll continue to drag this show down from time to time.  Boo!

I don't know: I wouldn't be surprised if Seth still doesn't end up starting something with Lisa.  Anytime a character pulls a "We're only co-workers!" or "I can't trust you!" line on another, it never quite ends that way.

Kimble openly admits to MacLeish that she wants to take Kirkman down and knows that is MacLeish's plan too.  Kirkman really doesn't have any allies outside of Aaron, Emily, and Seth, huh?

Ah, domestic terrorists! I wonder what other current political hot topics the show will find a way to have to have Kirkman address this season.

I figured out who's playing the Lady (who IMDB has hilariously named "The Mysterious and Calculating Dark-Haired Woman"): Mariana Klaveno, who was on True Blood, but also in that god-awful Stalker show, with Maggie Q.  I so want to see a reunion!

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7 hours ago, J-Man said:

Bingo! When Aaron said something about a Federal election never having been cancelled, I wanted to say "that's because there's never BEEN a Federal election, dumbass!" No one, unless he or she was an Presidential elector, has EVER voted for a candidate for national office (i.e., the president or vice-president.) We vote ONLY for state and local officials, representatives and senators in Congress, and presidential ELECTORS. (And all of this talk about the popular vote is just for entertainment purposes, as it means nothing and no one is officially tabulating it on the national level.)  All voting in the US is done at the state and local level, and the president has absolutely no say in the matter. If a state wanted to cancel the election within its borders, the president would have no authority to countermand that decision.

And frankly, given that so many refuse to vote even when there are no threats to their health, I found it hard to believe that they had much of a turnout at all, especially since they were only voting for two people at the most. And how did they circumvent all of the rules about primaries and runoffs? Again, every state would have its own rules for these situations.

And with respect to the DNA subplot-- wouldn't Leo (or anyone in his situation) want to know who his biological father was if only for health and genetic reasons?

I would imagine that the big political celebrities in the states would be holding out for a Senate appointment from their Governors with the up and comers, minor city mayors, state or local representatives getting the party nod to run for the  congressial district seat

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hmm... after thinking the last episode was back on the right track, this was all over the place.  The direction they've gone with the Atwood stuff is just confusing.  I get he is concerned for his son, but unless he thinks this mysterious organization as bugged everything he touches and every place he goes too, there isn't some way to try and get help.  Slip Kirkman a note?  Leave something in a drop zone for Hannah to find?  He just seems to have been defeated way too easily, and I would think the head of the FBI would have tried other ways then just towing the line.  How does even know they're actually going to keep their word?  If anything, they'll probably continue to hold onto the son, in order to keep him in line.

Any scene with Leo was stupid.  I just don't care for him and the drama over if Kirkman is his bio dad.  At least they seemed to resolve it, but that was a waste of time.  And there is still the whole drug dealing thing, so I'm sure he'll continue to drag this show down from time to time.  Boo!

I don't know: I wouldn't be surprised if Seth still doesn't end up starting something with Lisa.  Anytime a character pulls a "We're only co-workers!" or "I can't trust you!" line on another, it never quite ends that way.

Kimble openly admits to MacLeish that she wants to take Kirkman down and knows that is MacLeish's plan too.  Kirkman really doesn't have any allies outside of Aaron, Emily, and Seth, huh?

Ah, domestic terrorists! I wonder what other current political hot topics the show will find a way to have to have Kirkman address this season.

I figured out who's playing the Lady (who IMDB has hilariously named "The Mysterious and Calculating Dark-Haired Woman"): Mariana Klaveno, who was on True Blood, but also in that god-awful Stalker show, with Maggie Q.  I so want to see a reunion!

Especially since the local police know that the acting head of the FBI has a missing son. You would think that some of the gossip colominst in the White house press pool would have run across that rather public act of the conspiracy.

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9 hours ago, J-Man said:

And frankly, given that so many refuse to vote even when there are no threats to their health, I found it hard to believe that they had much of a turnout at all, especially since they were only voting for two people at the most.

Actually that was the part I believed the most.   Sure when it's a run of the mill election, no one can be arsed to get off the couch and go vote.   But this, our country has been attacked, government must rebuild.  It's a national crisis.  The nation all pitches in together for that.   They can't track down the terrorist themselves. But they can show the terrorists that government will continue by voting.  So they would go vote.  

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7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

...I don't know: I wouldn't be surprised if Seth still doesn't end up starting something with Lisa.  Anytime a character pulls a "We're only co-workers!" or "I can't trust you!" line on another, it never quite ends that way....

True. *sigh* I'm really not a fan of soap operas.

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12 hours ago, Netfoot said:

But my camera doesn't get back from New Zealand until tomorrow...

Did it go on vacation without you? ;-)

 

11 hours ago, J-Man said:

Bingo! When Aaron said something about a Federal election never having been cancelled, I wanted to say "that's because there's never BEEN a Federal election, dumbass!" No one, unless he or she was an Presidential elector, has EVER voted for a candidate for national office (i.e., the president or vice-president.)

Regardless of how you classify votes for the President and VP, I would consider the House and Senate to be federal offices, as opposed to state office like governor, state senate or state assembly.  Senators and Members of Congress may only represent a specific area, but they are part of what we consider the federal government.

Edited by Moose135
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1 minute ago, Moose135 said:
12 hours ago, Netfoot said:

But my camera doesn't get back from New Zealand until tomorrow...

Did it go on vacation without you? ;-)

Yep.  But it's coming back today, and I have to go to the aeroport in about an hour and give it a lift home.

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Quote

Regardless of how you classify votes for the President and VP, I would consider the House and Senate to be federal offices, as opposed to state office like governor, state senate or state assembly.  Senators and Members of Congress may only represent a specific area, but they are part of what we consider the federal government.

Agreed, but my point was that the Federal government doesn't RUN these (or any other) elections.

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First time poster on this show.

I was really unhappy with this episode.

I mean, it had some truly stupid moments, I guess: Atwood, Hannah being traced so easily, the DNA drama, the rah-rah election stuff - which was probably the easiest to believe - but...

I am sick and tired of the stakes being so high. We have a lot of shows lately where some shadow organization is somehow able to effectively threaten the governmental infrastructure of the United States. Sure, we have problems and all, but SERIOUSLY - Al Qaeda was the most successful organization at attacking us that we've seen, and their effectiveness as an organization died in that moment. They took down two countries when they fell, too - whether you agreed with that response or not, it's what happened, and one of those countries *was* an ally. Their "effectiveness" had to morph into an entirely different set of splinter organizations in order to survive.

When your attack mode ends up with you dying and taking out your friends with you, you kinda suck... and if you persist in that kind of attack, you not only suck, but you're STUPID. Eliminating the government (as they did) isn't a long game - it's a dying gasp, because if you DON'T have moles in place (like McLeish) you are truly and royally screwed (because the survivors/replacements will hound you until you die ignominiously) and if you DO have moles in place, you're going to get found out sooner or later (and probably sooner) and... you're going to die ignominiously.

Sure, you'd make it into the history books, but it'd be an epitaph, not a victory.

I get that they need a "big bad," I guess... but that feels lazy.

What was the significance of the Mossad reference? I assume I'm not the only one who caught that - and MAN did it catch my attention. (It also illustrated a blind spot in my own thinking, for which I'm eminently grateful - I'm Jewish, and my apparent comfort at an ISLAMIC attack was a lot more tolerable than my apparent DISCOMFORT at the thought of an Israeli attack. Blind spot in my thinking, for real. Television shows don't really get me to change how I think and feel often, but dang.)

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I feel like the FBI guy's "confession" would have fallen apart pretty quickly if anyone had bothered to ask follow up questions.  Even if the conspiracy somehow planned ahead and planted evidence to implicate him, I still feel like questions such as "When did you decide to kill the guy?"  "Where and when did you get the poison?"  "How did you get access to his food to poison him?" would have probably tripped him up and made it clear he wasn't actually the person who committed the crime.   

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Maybe I'm in the minority here, but perhaps Atwood's understated confession was meant to be the clue that his "confession" wasn't genuine. It did make the President have a followup investigation, after all.

I guess what really rankles is that Atwood just seems to allow himself to be played so easily, and that "guy who does everything to save his son" is such an overused and tired cliche.

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Maybe I'm in the minority here, but perhaps Atwood's understated confession was meant to be the clue that his "confession" wasn't genuine. It did make the President have a followup investigation, after all.

Wouldn't they have to have a follow up investigation no matter what?  I mean, the acting head of the FBI just randomly confessed to killing a high value detainee.  It seems like they would want answers on how that kind of thing was allowed to occur.

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32 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Wouldn't they have to have a follow up investigation no matter what?  I mean, the acting head of the FBI just randomly confessed to killing a high value detainee.  It seems like they would want answers on how that kind of thing was allowed to occur.

You're right, but I also think now that Kirkman legitimately doesn't believe Atwood is telling the truth. If Atwood were more "truthful", Kirkman would likely operate the investigation on the basis on finding out why what happened, happened, instead of right now where Kirkman is trying to figure out if Atwood really did it.

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When Atwood walked in the room to resign, I had to chuckle when he took a good look around to see if anyone was in the office besides Kirkman. Based, of course, on his previous visit when he didn't see McLeish sitting there.

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13 hours ago, HamsterOfDoom said:

What was the significance of the Mossad reference?

The FBI nerd-agent got the decryption code [for the cell phone ID] from his fellow Mossad nerd. Nothing nefarious...yet

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Re: the family drama. Imo it really dragged the whole episode (and every other) down. I find myself hoping that the show would go for something truly shocking and big, and have the First Family killed in another terrorist bombing.

Perks: 1) Kirkman can drop the President Carebear routine and suit up as President Badass. A guy full of principles fighting his own anger and need for revenge in order to do what's right for his people would be more interesting of an angle than what the show is serving right now imo 2) Kirkman would be a sympathetic/heroic figure for the public and everybody and their sister will finally stop questionning his 100% legal accession to presidency if only out of sheer decency 3) Kirkman trying to match high expectations instead of trying to prove he isn't a complete loser will be more compelling still imo 4) no need to Chuck Cunnigham the daughter anymore, no other Leo storyline resurfacing, no more soap (and no more unbearably self-righteous Alex, but it's a very very personal perk).

Oh, and 4) if it isn't a stunt and the show delivers afterwards (stop.stalling.artificially) it might make DS must-see live watching TV for all those DVR viewers.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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53 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

I find myself hoping that the show would go for something truly shocking and big, and have the First Family killed in another terrorist bombing.

(Snark alert)

Maybe Alex is really the big bad in this entire enterprise.  She will mysteriously be absent from the bombing, have  McLeish and Kimble arrested, and, suddenly, "I don't care what the Constitution says.  There is no VP nor Speaker of the House, so I will assume the duties of the President until further notice."

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2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

"I don't care what the Constitution says.  There is no VP nor Speaker of the House, so I will assume the duties of the President until further notice."

Just let me borrow your pen to sign the Enabling Act...

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On 12/1/2016 at 0:09 PM, Bobbin said:

Jeopardizing Kirkman's relationship with his son I get, but I don't understand why it would be a national disgrace if Leo wasn't his bio son. It's supposed to be noble for a man to step in and raise another man's son, under a variety of circumstances, including prenatal. Realistically, willfully not knowing at the outset is silly and foolhardy. My friend's roommate in college was there as a result of a coin-toss with his buddy. Seriously.

I thought about this when it was hinted, and I assume we're supposed to be scandalized that his wife cuckolded him (if she in fact did).  I don't understand the consequences either beyond Reasons, considering that the American public barely knows Kirkman from a tackling dummy in the first place, so it's not like upending the reputation of someone we know, about whom we know and cherish this solid bedrock of facts like we know the back of our own hands.  I could see the world being scandalized if we found out that, like, Henry Kissinger was actually Caroline Kennedy's father, or similar; but this seems weird.  

On 12/2/2016 at 8:40 AM, TaraS1 said:

I'm at a loss with this show.  I don't know what I was hoping it would turn out to be, but I don't think this crisis-of-the-week (now there's Ricin in the heartland!) with ridiculous melodrama ("Walk into the Oval Office, be as unconvincing as humanly possible and confess to murrrrrder!") and soapy family angst thrown in is it.

Come on, show, be better!  I'm rooting for you!  I'm going to hang in there for the winter finale and keep my fingers crossed.  Maybe Maggie Q will finally make it into a meeting with Keifer.  

The show has done a lot of things wrong and puzzling, including the pacing of Hannah's storyline/odd unlikely excuses to keep her and Kirkman apart and from talking to each other (heck, even bad choices for Hannah not talking to her boss at first); and the "fear and panic" of the American public being "told not shown" to us. The way they've structured the show would, in fact, make me suspicious of some kind of conspiracy where the American public has in the main been wiped out by a nuclear bomb, and Washington lying to the entire world.  "Yeah, sure, the people... are rioting.  That's why you never see any of them outside on the street.  You were expecting to see people fleeing?  Not this batch of Americans.  This batch hides, hunkers down, and cowers behind their home doors."  Sometimes it has the weird vibe of something like like "I Am Legend", with like six people actually left alive to tell the whole story.  We need some crowd reaction on the level of the world at large, studio/network peeps, not a batch of 100% contained microcosms where it's clearly obvious you herded some people onto a soundstage.

Edited by queenanne
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On 12/2/2016 at 9:56 AM, Netfoot said:

My Budweiser.

That is one right cutie-pie!  And the others are right -- you'll live him is spite (and a bit because of) any mischief he gets into (former dog owner here).

On 12/4/2016 at 11:48 PM, Danielg342 said:

[T]hat "guy who does everything to save his son" is such an overused and tired cliche.

"This time it's personal!"  (hate that trope too.

12 hours ago, queenanne said:

I assume we're supposed to be scandalized that his wife cuckolded him (if she in fact did).

Nope -- we were told flat-out that her "fling" with prison dude ended just before she took up with Kirkman.  In fact, for there to have been any question, she and Kirkman must have been boning like a week after her last ride with prison-dude.  Girl moves FAST!

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In at least a couple of seasons of "24" there was a major change of direction at about this point, so IMO I had not needed to watch the first 8 or so episodes.  Hoping that DS will change, in a way that makes the rest of the season make sense.

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1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Nope -- we were told flat-out that her "fling" with prison dude ended just before she took up with Kirkman.  In fact, for there to have been any question, she and Kirkman must have been boning like a week after her last ride with prison-dude.  Girl moves FAST!

...and an INSANE judge of character. Let's not forget, Alex and Tom married as soon as they found out that Alex was pregnant. For a marriage of opportunity, it's sure lasted a while.

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17 hours ago, queenanne said:

 The way they've structured the show would, in fact, make me suspicious of some kind of conspiracy where the American public has in the main been wiped out by a nuclear bomb, and Washington lying to the entire world.  "Yeah, sure, the people... are rioting.  That's why you never see any of them outside on the street.  You were expecting to see people fleeing?  Not this batch of Americans.  This batch hides, hunkers down, and cowers behind their home doors."  Sometimes it has the weird vibe of something like like "I Am Legend", with like six people actually left alive to tell the whole story. 

Good theory. Or maybe Tom doesn't realize that he;s trapped in a futuristic theme park where half the people are robots.

Edited by marinw · Reason: Clarity
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11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Nope -- we were told flat-out that her "fling" with prison dude ended just before she took up with Kirkman.  In fact, for there to have been any question, she and Kirkman must have been boning like a week after her last ride with prison-dude.  Girl moves FAST!

Aha, thanks.  So it's... got less point than I was theoretically imagining?  Not a good sign that I can't keep this little of stuff about the show straight in my mind.

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