S04.E07: Deals With The Devils

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

The team search for answers as Ghost Rider's clock counts down.

[AimingforYoko]

Well, everything's out now. I really can't believe Aida fooled Coulson and May, it's not like she's Westworld quality. (Although it looks like she aims to be.)

And I'm curious about the fallout from Mace's deal with Sen. Nadeer, now that everyone knows (or will soon.)

[benteen]

Mack Rider!  That F'ing ruled and this episode was awesome.

This was a great development for the Mack character and Robbie does well here, as his storyline hedges a little closer to his comic counterpart.

Awesome tie-in as well to Doctor Strange, with all the dimensional stuff and magic.

Mace had me laughing when he said Mack left on that motorcycle "without a helmet no less."  I understand why Fitz was so upset by confronting Mace without back-up was all kinds of stupid.  Did love Fitz getting all kinds of pissed at Coulson.

I suspect the Aida storyline will propel things in the second half of the season.  Kind of Age of Ultron mistake by John and Fitz.

A four week hiatus only to do two episodes and THEN a winter finale?  WTF?!

[Lantern7]

Quote

A four week hiatus only to do two episodes and THEN a winter finale?  WTF?!

I know, right? What about a Christmas episode where the team tries to save Santa from the Watchdogs because they think he's an Inhuman? And then he gives Phil new Captain America cards to replace the ones that got bloodied when Loki skewered him.

Anybody else half-expecting Ward to be in the cocoon? That guy is the baddest of bad pennies. "I'm alive! And I'm gonna kill everybody because unresolved family issues!!"

Yeah, Aida seems quaint now that Westworld is a huge deal. At least she isn't making like Maeve and trying to play god.

[Lady Calypso]

It's funny how much they're still trying to sell a FitzSimmons romance and the moment they're reunited after Fitz almost disappeared into oblivion, they run to each other and...hug like best friends. And they wonder why there may be some like me who don't buy this romance angle. I always forget that they're a couple. 

God, I'm glad it wasn't Brett Dalton in that cocoon. 

Mace, for all of his jerky behaviour, does make me laugh from time to time.

Fitz and Coulson fighting? So worth it.

Mack Rider! Sweet! 

It looks like Aida will, indeed, become a problem. Of course. 

[Maverick]

 How convenient that Robbie Reye-inspired leather jacket in Mac's size was laying around the plane. 

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Mace had me laughing when he said Mack left on that motorcycle "without a helmet no less."  I understand why Fitz was so upset by confronting Mace without back-up was all kinds of stupid.  Did love Fitz getting all kinds of pissed at Coulson.

I loved that line. It's as if his Inhuman power is efficient, obsequious bureaucrat. I also loved Mack's line "my axe is plenty sharp!"

52 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Anybody else half-expecting Ward to be in the cocoon? That guy is the baddest of bad pennies. "I'm alive! And I'm gonna kill everybody because unresolved family issues!!"

 

28 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

God, I'm glad it wasn't Brett Dalton in that cocoon.

I was thinking they wouldn't... they could but certainly they wouldn't. But I was worried for a second there.

 

6 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 How convenient that Robbie Reye-inspired leather jacket in Mac's size was laying around the plane. 

If there is one thing SHIELD is never short on it's leather jackets.

[VCRTracking]

"They're in the Upside Down!"

-Me and most viewers watching the episode.

Edited November 30, 2016 by VCRTracking

[thuganomics85]

Mack as the Ghost Rider for a brief second was something I never predicted.   Unsurprisingly, he was pretty freaking intense.  Henry Simmons is good with the dramatic moments and even comedic stuff, but it's safe to say he can be pretty scary too.  I would so not want to be the target of his revenge!

So, Coulson, Fitz, and Robbie didn't die (of course), but got knocked into some kind of other dimension (paging Doctor Strange?).  I did like how they cut between the scene with everyone in the normal dimensions doing their scenes, and then revisit it from those three's perspectives.  As soon as Radcliffe said that no human could comprehend the book though, I knew Aida would end up getting it instead.  Now, everyone is back and almost all of them know Aida is an android, but I guess they'll keep it a secret for now.  Of course, now Aida is up to something.  Knew something would come out of her getting that much power!

Seems like Simmons was sent to help unearth someone from one of those cocoons.  Since it was apparently part of the deal with the Senator, I'm guessing it was her brother that she was talking to episodes ago?  Curious to see what everyone will do now that they know Mace made some kind of deal with her (or at least Fitz does, and I have to imagine he'll tell everyone.)

Mace being all concerned over Mack not wearing a helmet was randomly hilarious.

Fun return.  Too bad the winter finale is already next week.

[VCRTracking]

I like how Aida with her finger light things was making a version of a spell that MCU sorcerer's like Doctor Strange uses:

[blueray]

I actually wanted this one when it aired :).

Anyhow, great episode. I love stories where characters are out of phase. This allows an interesting perspective of what is going on.  Like Coulson's comments of the team investigating what happened. And I liked Fitz response to May when she asks why everyone left, something about I'd answer you but you can't hear me anyway and Daisy's line about why they are okay, "Coulson coming back from the dead, Fitz rescuing Simmons through a rock and Robbies head goes on fire" lol.

 

I love seeing Mac as ghost rider, but glad Robbie got it back in the end of the episode.

Edited November 30, 2016 by blueray

[Primetimer]

It's a rescue mission, and some agents show more promise than others.

View the full article

[benteen]

Quote

 I did like how they cut between the scene with everyone in the normal dimensions doing their scenes, and then revisit it from those three's perspectives.

Agreed.  These were particularly well-done scenes and a nice change-of-pace for the show.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, blueray said:

I love seeing Mac as ghost rider, but glad Robbie got it back in the end of the episode.

Actually, he didn't. If I interpreted the last scene correctly, Mack Rider lied about giving it back to Robbie. I guess both are going to be working together to avenge Eli and whoever Ghost Rider needs to avenge. 

[DeLurker]

10 hours ago, benteen said:

Mack Rider!  That F'ing ruled and this episode was awesome.

This was a great development for the Mack character and Robbie does well here, as his storyline hedges a little closer to his comic counterpart.

Awesome tie-in as well to Doctor Strange, with all the dimensional stuff and magic.

Mace had me laughing when he said Mack left on that motorcycle "without a helmet no less."  I understand why Fitz was so upset by confronting Mace without back-up was all kinds of stupid.  Did love Fitz getting all kinds of pissed at Coulson.

 

Mack is the bestest.  I keep wondering what they are going to do with Robbie's little brother - there's gotta be a reason he is around.

I haven't seen Doctor Strange so I totally did not get the connection.

The helmet comment cracked me up too, but I did think to myself "Mack!  Helmet please!".

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I know, right? What about a Christmas episode where the team tries to save Santa from the Watchdogs because they think he's an Inhuman? And then he gives Phil new Captain America cards to replace the ones that got bloodied when Loki skewered him.

 

I would totally watch that Christmas special.

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Mack as the Ghost Rider for a brief second was something I never predicted.   Unsurprisingly, he was pretty freaking intense.  Henry Simmons is good with the dramatic moments and even comedic stuff, but it's safe to say he can be pretty scary too.  I would so not want to be the target of his revenge!

<snip>

Seems like Simmons was sent to help unearth someone from one of those cocoons.  Since it was apparently part of the deal with the Senator, I'm guessing it was her brother that she was talking to episodes ago?  Curious to see what everyone will do now that they know Mace made some kind of deal with her (or at least Fitz does, and I have to imagine he'll tell everyone.)

 

I thought they were going to pull Henry Simmon's doing the teary eye thing again - that guts me each and every time.  Before he too off on the bike, he was holding a card in his hand - anyone know what that was?

I thought they showed the cocoon thing in the senator's house in an early episode so I was convinced it was the brother.

[DavidJSnyder]

They didn't show how Robbie got in the car, did they?  Because either it's insubstantial to him, and he shouldn't be able to sit it in, or there's no way for him to get through the door.

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

They didn't show how Robbie got in the car, did they?  Because either it's insubstantial to him, and he shouldn't be able to sit it in, or there's no way for him to get through the door.

If he, Coulson, and Fitz were able to stand on the floor or every building and plane, then there's no reason Robbie can't sit in the car even though he had to pass through the door to get inside. Simple logic in alternate plane stories.

Mack!Rider was awesome, even sans helmet. Henry Simmons can do no wrong.

[blackwing]

I too was expecting Brett Dalton to be in the cocoon.  Except that he was going to be Grant Ward, the squeaky clean version of Grant Ward that we saw in the first season.  Then it would be revealed that Grant Ward had been "taken" some time ago, and the Grant Ward that we saw that turned into HIVE was the replacement Grant Ward.  Then we get back the real Grant Ward out of the cocoon.

I know many here despised Ward and Brett Dalton, but I didn't mind the actor, and I didn't mind the Ward from the early episodes.  I doubt they would ever bring him back, but that'd be one way to do it.

I also considered that it could be Antoine Triplett in the cocoon.  I feel like his story just suddenly ended with zero warning or explanation.

Are the Ghost Rider special effects still consuming the budget to the point where Daisy still can't use her seismic powers?  You'd think that it'd be ok to use them maybe just once when fighting those goons.

[Enigma X]

I have not seen the episode yet but am already squealing from MackRider! And it is comforting to know that when I do watch that I will not have to worry about a Brett Dalton return.

[SimoneS]

I love, love, love Robbie. He is the best. He cracked me up. "Please be careful with my baby, that only works when I am the Rider. I can't help you, have fun." I loved the conversation between Robbie and Rider. It shows how powerful and dangerous the Rider is and why Robbie can barely control him. The new deal means a lot of death and destruction ahead for Robbie. I want Robbie to get his own show.

[mrspidey]

14 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I loved that line. It's as if his Inhuman power is efficient, obsequious bureaucrat. I also loved Mack's line "my axe is plenty sharp!"

"...and a shotgun."

[blueray]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Actually, he didn't. If I interpreted the last scene correctly, Mack Rider lied about giving it back to Robbie. I guess both are going to be working together to avenge Eli and whoever Ghost Rider needs to avenge. 

From what I gathered the rider went back into Robbie. He probably wouldn't have got out of the other demention without it, he would have been pulled under as Coulson was almost. I also could have sworn he went all "on fire" too. The last scene Mack agreed to help him get revenge on his uncle, which he was going to do anyway (when the rider took him over in the first place). The guy killed a few agents and pissed Mack off.

Edited November 30, 2016 by blueray

[KirkB]

I'm pretty sure the Rider left Mack and went back into Robbie, because Robbie still has the burning need for vengeance it craves. Mack was despondent about something, which wasn't nearly as satisfying. But Mack got a taste of the power and has a better understanding of where Robbie is coming from, plus like Blueray said know Mack does want to avenge those fallen agents. I'll be curious to see what needs the Rider has that Robbie promised to help it with once they have finished with his uncle.

[DayOwl]

17 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's funny how much they're still trying to sell a FitzSimmons romance and the moment they're reunited after Fitz almost disappeared into oblivion, they run to each other and...hug like best friends. And they wonder why there may be some like me who don't buy this romance angle. I always forget that they're a couple.

Well, to be fair, it would be really unprofessional of them to start making out in the middle of the hallway at SHIELD HQ with their boss and a bunch of other agents watching.

[SimoneS]

I really like Mace. Other than Ghost Rider/Robbie, Mace is the reason that I am sticking with the show. Mace is interesting. It is obvious that he is a good guy with a secret. In the preview, I thought I could see him in a suit for a second. I still want to know what he really is.

Edited November 30, 2016 by SimoneS

[SnoGirl]

My favorite story was Fitz/Coulson/Robbie. I did love how they intertwined them. Its almost like a bottle episode, think they just removed the three of them digitally later? Could you imagine shooting the episode, "Don't make eye contact, don't make eye contact." Lol.

I kinda wish instead of Fitz keeling over everytime he got upset, we would have seen him having issues communicating. You know, his brain injury? It could have been an interesting moment for him to struggle to talk, trying to find his missing words because he was so stressed out.

Loved all the sassy one-liners tonight. Whenever the show gets real quippy, it always reminds me of the first season. Coulson, Fitz and Radcliffe had the best lines.

Missed Hunter again when Mack (poor Mack) was waiting for Robbie to appear again at the end. He probably knows what that card is about.

I really like Mace. I'm hoping by the end of the season he's out on a mission with the team and making ridiculous comments about their safety. I hope he's like Coulson, trying to be a good guy making (safe) decisions to protect his agents.

Edited December 1, 2016 by SnoGirl

[KirkB]

40 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Missed Hunter again when Mack (poor Mack) was waiting for Robbie to appear again at the end. He probably knows what that card is about.

I hadn't thought about it, but how DID Mack know to be sitting there? The machine wasn't turned on, so there shouldn't have been any reason for him to expect Robbie to come back. Even if the Rider told him he knew how to get Robbie back while he was in Mack's head that was an odd timing, unless it was just supposed to be a coincidence that Mack was sitting right there, right then.

[SnoGirl]

32 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I hadn't thought about it, but how DID Mack know to be sitting there? The machine wasn't turned on, so there shouldn't have been any reason for him to expect Robbie to come back. Even if the Rider told him he knew how to get Robbie back while he was in Mack's head that was an odd timing, unless it was just supposed to be a coincidence that Mack was sitting right there, right then.

If I were to write it, I would explain as either:

a)Mack knew Robbie and The Rider were reunited and were coming back to seek vengence so he waited were logically they could appear (a connection between planes)

b)Robbie would have appeared wherever Mack was because The Rider knew that Mack had some vengence in his heart, therefore he knew that Mack would help Robbie.

Was the machine Aida built like the machine Stark and company built on Agent Carter to save Wilkes? Or was it a callout to Dr Strange?

Speaking of Aida, why didn't they reboot her right away, as a precaution? She's AI, wouldn't she been fine? She was building herself a brain right? Is Aida going to be the next Big Bad?

Edited December 1, 2016 by SnoGirl

[TVSpectator]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I really like Mace. Other than Ghost Rider/Robbie, Mace is the reason that I am sticking with the show. Mace is interesting. It is obvious that he is a good guy with a secret. In the preview, I thought I could see him in a suit for a second. I still want to know what he really is.

 

Yeah, Mace is a good character but the thing is that this show tends to have decent reoccurring characters (like the lovely Dr. John Hannah) that seem like they are either way better than the main characters (e.g. Robbie, Cal, Raina, Radcliffe) or are more sympathetic (e.g. Mace and even Jaiying) or just have more potential as being a good character to watch  (e.g. Rosalind). Which sucks because they won't be on the show forever (or most likely put on a bus /killed off).

3 hours ago, DayOwl said:

Well, to be fair, it would be really unprofessional of them to start making out in the middle of the hallway at SHIELD HQ with their boss and a bunch of other agents watching.

I won't lie, I haven't seen this episode, yet, but having those two have a major kiss, onlookers/social conventions/looking unprofessional be damn sounds more like a great romance than just hugging it out. 

[gik910]

On 11/30/2016 at 8:50 AM, DeLurker said:

I thought they were going to pull Henry Simmon's doing the teary eye thing again - that guts me each and every time.  Before he too off on the bike, he was holding a card in his hand - anyone know what that was?

 

Henry Simmons was excellent this episode.  Actually, I really enjoyed this entire episode.

Are you talking about the card Mack was holding when Robbie came out of dark world?  I think it was a picture w/ writing on the back.  It said:

Hope 4/18/06

So when the Rider said Mack lost hope- it appears to have been in a literal sense...

[Enigma X]

I really like how we had the "two" realities and how that was filmed in this episode. And I agree that Mack was awesome!

Has it been established that Mace is a bad guy or that he is just being blackmailed? I mean, I know that he is being blackmailed by the senator but we don't know what for, right? So, he is not willingly helping her. I like Mace. He often says things with such childlike naivety.

I get a feeling that Aida will be the big bad for the next arc, but I hope they go somewhere original with that story. I would not mind her becoming a permanent part of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I am guessing Simmons will be telling the others about her adventure. I know she does not know the senator's involvement in it all, but the whole experience was highly suspect.

And again...No Ward or Brett Dalton! Hurrah!

[Sandman]

I thought it was interesting that Aida's gloves allowed her to construct a portal thread by thread that resembled the transit portal Doctor Strange uses by magic. It was a little more predictable that the thing that made it okay for Aida to mess with the Darkhold is that she doesn't have a human brain, and so the first thing she does after messing with the Darkhold is to knit herself one out of laser beams and bosons. Because of course she does.

I'm certain that the Inhuman in the cocoon was the Senator's brother -- the agent who took Simmons said that the fellow had been in the cocoon for seven months. I'm assuming he will turn out to be

Spoiler

Grid

 I'm not sure how I feel about the conversion of the Darkhold into an Incredibly Advanced Science! tech manual. I know, a sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic, blah blah Clarke-cakes, but it feels to me like genres are being force-fit here. Robots and the Montesi formula? Hmm. I'm skeptical.

But I agree that Aida will probably prove to be the Big Bad of the latter part of the season. (It never even crossed my mind that the one in the cocoon would turn out to be Brett Dalton. Ward is done like the dinos.)

Overall, I liked the episode. I was impressed that Fitz and Coulson's fight turned out to voice some of the same concerns that the audience has. And the multiple-viewpoint device worked surprisingly well. I still don't think Mace is a good guy, or even a mostly-good compromised guy. I think he's a manipulative jerkface, and the show's had quite enough of that, thank you.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Sandman

[Raja]

10 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I really like how we had the "two" realities and how that was filmed in this episode. And I agree that Mack was awesome!

Has it been established that Mace is a bad guy or that he is just being blackmailed? I mean, I know that he is being blackmailed by the senator but we don't know what for, right? So, he is not willingly helping her. I like Mace. He often says things with such childlike naivety.

 

About the only thing we know for sure about Mace  is that he is the Director of SHIELD which works for the US Government, Presumably supported by President Ellis unless they had an election too.

[mommalib]

I can't wait to see what happens between Coulson and May and the future. I always wondered about those two.

[Teitr Styrr]

I loved this episode and the way it was shot from the different perspectives.

Ada may turn out to be the next big bad, but I hope not. Most people have mentioned Westworld on here, but she reminds me of the androids from Humans. I hope she remains a good girl.

[tennisgurl]

I liked this one a lot! It was full of action and superhero fun, both wit some nice character stuff too. I am not really a shipper, but seeing May and Phil being reunited got my heart all fluttey. I do kind of wonder if they are going in that direction with them. I wouldn't be opposed. 

Mack is awesome as always, and so is Robbie. 

I hope Mace is a decent guy. He makes some pretty questionable choices, but he seems to have good intentions at last. I hope he can become a trust worthy guy. I also hope Ada stays a good girl. Maybe her and the Vision can start some kind of robot support group. 

[TVSpectator]

17 hours ago, mommalib said:

I can't wait to see what happens between Coulson and May and the future. I always wondered about those two.

Please no more shipping. May and Coulson are friends why do people always want them together?

[paigow]

14 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Please no more shipping. May and Coulson are friends why do people always want them together?

Whenever Coulson thinks about May "that way", he will also remember Ward got there first.....

[TVSpectator]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Whenever Coulson thinks about May "that way", he will also remember Ward got there first.....

Shudder......

 

Edit: Just to add something further about that old relationship, May and Ward as friends with benefits (and that was what they were. Their relationship was just there so they can bang each other and I always felt that it was just that. About having sex and having no real feelings for each other but just bang buddies) felt so wrong to me. Sort of like seeing Fitz and Simmons together, I get the same, "this is so wrong" feeling but they are so pushing the idea that they actual love each other/have feelings for each other/care about each other/are each other's soul mates' and that is a bit worse than seeing May and Ward together.

Edited December 3, 2016 by TVSpectator

[ProudMary]

On 12/1/2016 at 2:12 PM, Sandman said:

I'm certain that the Inhuman in the cocoon was the Senator's brother -- the agent who took Simmons said that the fellow had been in the cocoon for seven months. I'm assuming he will turn out to be

  Reveal hidden contents

Grid

 

Oooh, great find!  I KNEW I recognized the actor in the cocoon, I just couldn't place him.  That theory makes perfect sense, and I like it!

[mommalib]

On 12/2/2016 at 6:40 PM, TVSpectator said:

Please no more shipping. May and Coulson are friends why do people always want them together?

I think they are more than friends.

[mac123x]

On 12/1/2016 at 0:38 PM, Enigma X said:

Has it been established that Mace is a bad guy or that he is just being blackmailed? I mean, I know that he is being blackmailed by the senator but we don't know what for, right?

I think she's got evidence of the SHIELD team breaking into that penitentiary a couple of episodes back, and working with a known terrorist (Daisy).  She's holding that over his head.

 

On 11/30/2016 at 7:15 PM, SnoGirl said:

Speaking of Aida, why didn't they reboot her right away, as a precaution? She's AI, wouldn't she been fine? She was building herself a brain right? Is Aida going to be the next Big Bad?

She was building a brain, but maybe it's someone else's.  I hope so -- AI gone rogue  is  too close to Ultron. 

 

I really liked how the Darkhold was written in binary when we saw it from AIDA's perspective.  Nice touch.  I'm getting a Tom Riddle's Diary vide from the Darkhold -- maybe the brain she's building is for the entity that resides in the  book. 

 

On 11/30/2016 at 8:50 AM, DeLurker said:

I haven't seen Doctor Strange so I totally did not get the connection.

I saw it yesterday and still didn't make the connection.    It resembled the various line drawings the Ancient One (and her students) made, but was not their method of travel -- Dr Strange's portals looked more like Catherine wheels with spinning and lots of sparks.

[Raja]

10 hours ago, mommalib said:

I think they are more than friends.

Maybe not now or even before when Agent May was Agent Coulson's bodyguard up until Bahrain,  but by what they must be looking at as a possible series finale I think Coulson and May will end as more than combat buddies.

10 hours ago, mac123x said:

 

I saw it yesterday and still didn't make the connection.    It resembled the various line drawings the Ancient One (and her students) made, but was not their method of travel -- Dr Strange's portals looked more like Catherine wheels with spinning and lots of sparks.

Close enough for government work ;) In any case the gauntlets she put on made me think of the sling rings

[Sandman]

11 hours ago, mac123x said:

I'm getting a Tom Riddle's Diary vibe from the Darkhold -- maybe the brain she's building is for the entity that resides in the  book. 

Interesting -- I hadn't thought of the book as a being that might need its own facsimile of a living brain.

[Humbugged]

Nice mention of Glasgow when 2 of the cast are from there (same as myself) .And if we ever get to see what happened will it come with subtitles and extended beeping.

[LilJen]

I was so confused when the director looked at Mac and referred to him as Agent Mackenzie. I was all, "who is Agent Mackenzie?"

[Raja]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

I was so confused when the director looked at Mac and referred to him as Agent Mackenzie. I was all, "who is Agent Mackenzie?"

His name is Alphonso Mackenzie, Mac for short

[Sandman]

On 2016-12-02 at 5:44 PM, tennisgurl said:

I also hope Ada stays a good girl. Maybe her and the Vision can start some kind of robot support group. 

Not for nothing, but I would totally watch that show, just for the dry wisecracking about those humans and their protein-chauvinism.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Sandman

[LilJen]

On 12/6/2016 at 2:43 PM, Raja said:

His name is Alphonso Mackenzie, Mac for short

I know that--I just hadn't heard it in so long I did a double-take. :)

[snarktini]

I keep letting these pile up, but not pulling the plug on my season pass. I liked this one pretty well, though, held my attention better than any have in a while.

The whole "turn left! turn left!" while the blinker ticked loudly felt like a callback to Doctor Who. 

I didn't think the hug seemed necessarily platonic. Overall I don't think they're doing a great job selling Fitz-Simmons as a couple, but this seemed normal to me.

Love Mack!