S07.E09: Ouroboros

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Monica is back! And her first task is to help Debbie get back Franny. Meanwhile, Frank tries to avoid her, Ian has his first fight with Trevor, Lip tries to mask his relapsing alcoholism and Fiona's laundromat gets a bad review.

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

[SimoneS]

Micky, really?! Are we actually going to see him because that would be cool, ridiculous that he escaped, but cool as hell.

[madhacker]

As much as I'm thrilled Mickey is coming back, I'm still enjoying Ian's relationship with Trevor this season. It's probably the most honest relationship Ian's been in (besides his siblings, and Vee and Kevin), and to be honest I'm a fan of Elliot Fletcher, who in my opinion has got real courage (being openly transgender) and has a bright acting future. I'm just glad it took Trevor just a few minutes alone with her to realize that Monica is nuts.

Fiona dear, publicly taking the brat down a notch was awesome, but smearing the burger on her is technically assault, just sayin'.

Please next week let Monica and Frank be taken out in a hail of bullets by the cops (led by Tony). Either that or they're both arrested and put away forever. i think I speak for everyone that they won't be missed on the show.

[Muffyn]

The only person that can make Frank seem decent is Monica.  She is horrible in every possible way.  Her return did give me brief moments in this episode in which I didn't hate Lip and Fiona.  They each made the intelligent decision to refuse to interact with her. 

Extra points to the DCS woman who rightly told Franny's paternal family that they cannot kidnap a baby.  I was expecting Monica to somehow screw that up when she showed up at the interview. 

Okay, the Lip storyline has gone from frustrating to intensely boring.  Another good decision was shown by his ex-girlfriend in kicking him out of her apartment.  Is there anything more dull (on a TV show) than watching someone drink to excess?  He's not a fun drunk.  He doesn't get into funny situations.  He is just mopey and sad and dull and . . . .  Damn, what happened to Lip as a snarky, rebellious jackass?  I do not need to see him kill himself. 

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Frank's breakdown was intense

[preeya]

1 hour ago, madhacker said:

As much as I'm thrilled Mickey is coming back, I'm still enjoying Ian's relationship with Trevor this season. It's probably the most honest relationship Ian's been in (besides his siblings, and Vee and Kevin), and to be honest I'm a fan of Elliot Fletcher, who in my opinion has got real courage (being openly transgender) and has a bright acting future. I'm just glad it took Trevor just a few minutes alone with her to realize that Monica is nuts.

Fiona dear, publicly taking the brat down a notch was awesome, but smearing the burger on her is technically assault, just sayin'.

Please next week let Monica and Frank be taken out in a hail of bullets by the cops (led by Tony). Either that or they're both arrested and put away forever. i think I speak for everyone that they won't be missed on the show.

I'll 2nd that.  IMHO, this episode sucked.

[Dee]

Don't give the slightest fuck about Mickey.

Don't give the slightest fuck about Trevor.

Don't give the slightest fuck about Ian.

Don't care about Sierra & Neil but it's about time someone told Lip to go to hell.

Don't care about Debbie's shenanigans but I did like that stern DCEFS counselor who set EVERYBODY straight.

Don't care about Etta or Etta and Frank.

Nice to see Liam slowly entering the Gallagher fold.

Fiona totally overreacted to that yelp review.

The ONLY things that make this trash ass show remotely watchable, are Kev/Vee/Svet and Monica's Return.

[Christina]

My comments on this show always seem to be stated better by others, so I'm just going to point out how much I appreciate the make-up on this show. It's a little thing, but seeing how absolutely exhausted Fiona was in the laundry followed by how put together Vee and Sveltana were made me recognize the make-up work. When Fiona walked over to the diner to confront the Yelp reviewer, it was clear that it was filmed at a different time because she didn't look as exhausted. 

But ignoring that, shout out to the make-up artists. You do great work.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Monica is THE WORST. I hate every time she shows up and wreaks havoc on the kids' lives. She is lucky that DCFS let Debbie take Franny home after she took a baseball bat to the windows. Custody is determined by what is in the best interest of the child and from an outside point of view, having a grandmother who has a violent temper is not in the best interest of the child (especially since Debbie told them that Monica was staying with her). On the plus side, I'm glad that the DCFS woman told everyone they need to get their shit together (including no more kidnapping).

I'm glad that both Lip and Fiona are smart enough to avoid Monica as much as possible (although it's sad that the reason that this is their M.O. is because they know nothing good will come of Monica's presence because she has hurt them and abandoned them so many times). I mean, seriously, she was trying to bond with Debbie by telling her how upset she was THE FIRST TIME that DCFS took Fiona away from her, I just rolled my eyes. It's YOUR FUCKING FAULT that your child was taken away from you multiple times and placed in foster care. You know who I feel sorry for? The kids who were in and out of foster care multiple times because their shithead parents couldn't take care of them.

She and Frank are just not redeemable to me at this point. They are both horrible selfish people who kept having kids and then not taking care of them (on a related note, it annoyed me to see Frank doting on Etta and then telling Fiona it was worth it to have a warm bed and cable tv - it shows that he's capable of taking care of another human being but he has chosen not to take care of his kids for all of these years because he's a selfish lazy dick). The fact that she's dying now doesn't change that. I really hope the kids don't have a change of heart just because she's about to die.

So was stealing the bar Svetlana's idea and this was all a long con? Or was this her husband's idea? And now I wonder if he was really married to her or that was just another lie. As was discussed by Kev and V in a previous episode, if Svetlana was married to him, that means her marriage to V would not be legal/valid. I still need to know the details of how she stole the bar. Did she have Kev sign something within a stack of other paperwork? Or did she forge his signature?

Edited November 28, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[LuciaMia]

Add me to the Hate-Monica list. Her constant smirk and her "Im aback so love me-love me, why don't you love me? Smash-Crash!"  Is there any particular reason she's shown up again, beyond the writers wanting another bull in the china closet?

[LakeGal]

I didn't even believe Monica when she said she was dying.  I just expect it is another con.

[iMonrey]

Actually I find Monica entertaining at times and laughed at the scene where she was smashing all the windows while reciting the law regarding DFS because she knew it verbatim. It's Debbie I want to hit with a baseball bat though. She does this every time Monica shows up - falls for her crap like she's finally going to change. Everything they've done with Debbie for the past 2 seasons has made me absolutely loathe her, and I wasn't a fan to begin with.

I liked the scene with Fiona, Lip and Ian sitting around the kitchen table. It's the little moments like that which make the show still worthwhile.

I, for one, would be happy to see Micky kill Trevor. I'm sick of this after school special about the trans world and every conversation/interaction between Ian and Trevor makes me feel like I'm watching an educational docu-drama about transgender people. 

[Adultosaurus]

In a show all about discomfort, I was getting really uncomfortable with the Frank/Etta storyline.  I'm glad they are giving her lucid moments, because it skeeves me out less.

[CarolMK]

June Squibb, who plays Etta , is 87 years old. Amazing that she's still working at that age.

I think bringing Monica back was a plotline the showrunners wanted to do in case this is the final season. Strange that Monica didn't ask about Carl.

I want Lip to stop drinking and get his shit together, don't want to see him turn into Frank 2.0

This season has been refreshing in seeing Fiona without a love interest and focusing on work. Wish we could see Ian more at work and less with Trevor, the one female co-worker of Ian's is a good partner for him when they're working together.

[stagmania]

17 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I, for one, would be happy to see Micky kill Trevor. 

I snorted. I'm just over here dying over Mickey and his prison break. Sure, show. Sure. I don't think we'll be getting a murder, but I do expect a quick bit of love triangle action with Mickey playing the bad boy ex who briefly tempts Ian back to the dark side. They killed Mickey's character and that relationship long ago, so I guess I'll just watch and be amused. 

I used to love it when Monica appeared, because it produced such great and meaningful stuff with all the kids. It has lost its impact for me.

[Tikichick]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So was stealing the bar Svetlana's idea and this was all a long con? Or was this her husband's idea? And now I wonder if he was really married to her or that was just another lie. As was discussed by Kev and V in a previous episode, if Svetlana was married to him, that means her marriage to V would not be legal/valid. I still need to know the details of how she stole the bar. Did she have Kev sign something within a stack of other paperwork? Or did she forge his signature?

 

IMO Svetlana has been working the long con all along.  Ironically Kev finally started to notice something was wrong because of his jealousy and when the father/husband disturbed him.  He got confirmation when Fiona told him she spotted her as a con artist from the start, he knew Fiona was right, but he pushed it aside because it was easier to deny it than it was to try to figure out what to do next.  With the revelation about the bar Vee sees the danger for the first time and she realizes they may have lost the kids, the bar and their home.  Mickey could have an impact on this storyline as well.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

1 hour ago, CarolMK said:

Strange that Monica didn't ask about Carl

Monica said Debbie showed her a picture of Carl in his uniform 

[sazzat]

I'm super annoyed at hipster Yelp reviewer chick writing a teardown of the laundromat within hours of its opening--and with her photo attached! Why is it that the Gallaghers don't have enough cards stacked against them for the writers to exploit that they have to make up irrational ways for people to persecute them?

Am also ewww-ed out that Fiona is just willing to watch her father abuse Etta (you would think that she would at least draw the line when it comes to his getting keys?! and yet she seemed fine with it - show, sometimes you have to explain this shit, like have Fiona acknowledge that she can't get her dad to back off without losing her own ability to influence Etta, instead of leaving us to wonder why she's so inconsistent about Frank).

Oh look, Mickey's coming back. Long after the show fucked up his exit, long after they lost the opportunity to deal with any of the issues his leaving brought up. And it's a Social Media Event, since Shameless has such a good history with social media management. This may be too cynical a promotional move even for a show called Shameless. I wish I could look forward to this, but I'll be watching from behind my hands with the full expectation that it will be useless and resolve nothing except to retcon Ian, Mickey, or both.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

The 'fucking Monica' pieces the characters were going through was so funny. 

I love that Fiona's storyline doesn't involve her dating life. 

Her going overboard on the Yelp reviewer was her frustration with Monica added in. When I see a bad review on a company, as long as I have another option, I avoid it. 

I figured the snake tequila has some type of symbolism to it which makes me think Svetlena is no good... I am ready for this throuple storyline to end because it is so many questions surrounding it all but of course there is just not enough time in the show to address it properly. 

I like the occasional return of Monica because it always makes me a bit uneasy. The slitting of her wrists was an epic Shameless moment. 

When the therapist asked Kevin what did he hear Svetlana says and his response was 'I give oral' HILARIOUS!

V is drop dead gorgeous this season. I love when the camera zooms in closer to her. I never thought she was ugly, but I never saw her as beautiful either until this season. 

[Happytobehere]

Dear show,

I hate Debbie the rapist, and nothing you do can change that.  She is the worst.  Truly the by-product of Frank and Monica. Someone take that baby from her, because no good is going to come from that parenting.

Kevin and Vee used to be my favorites, but even they have been ruined. Svetlana needs to go and Kev and Vee need to return to their awesome of old.

At this point, I think I'm watching for the moment when someone outside of that horrid family realizes that Liam is not too far gone for redemption and spirits him away.

[Petunia13]

5 hours ago, DOBABYR said:

 

V is drop dead gorgeous this season. I love when the camera zooms in closer to her. I never thought she was ugly, but I never saw her as beautiful either until this season. 

I think she's the prettiest woman on the show. Her body is great and her skin is gorgeous. Se also has very feminine features. 

[scrb]

Watch, Lip will keep getting more professional opportunities.

Don't know why the prof keeps bothering.

[jww]

Where those all new washers/dryers?   It looked like  some  of the washers still had the plastic  shipping  wrap around their bottoms and the dryers looked new too when she was removing the lint.  If Fiona bought 20 new washers at $2,000 each (per the repairman)  and 20 dryers at $1,000 each and is using Etta’s money, Etta will not have much walking around money left.

[dangwoodchucks]

They were new, Fiona made Etta believe that Etta had bought them. The way she's abusing Etta is just as bad as what Frank is doing, probably worse since she's stolen more money than Frank.

[Dee]

I hate how Vee/Kev/Svet's story is being positioned for Fiona to not only ride in like a conquering hero, but position Svetlana as the "true" source of Fiona's problems with Vee.

Fiona had no problem with Svetlana, beyond occasionally ridiculing her line of work, until recently; even going as far as letting her (re)design her wedding dress and participate as a bridesmaid in her aborted wedding.

But now, because of retcons and writer's fiat, Fiona will totally skate on being a tremendous jerk and Vee will be left to grovel as if their current argument (and overall relationship) were equally yoked, when they never were.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dee

[LisaS848]

I'm not even really sure what Fi and Vee are fighting about.

I think Lana is playing a long con.  She's about taking care of herself and her son.  She will do whatever it takes.  That being said, I do think she cares about Vee and Kev.  Lana's personality is such that she just does things and tells people what to do and won't be questioned.  She probably does think it's more efficient to just have the bar in her name since she runs it instead of constantly having them sign paperwork.  Which by the way.... is probably how she got the bar... they never review the paperwork she has them sign.  I'm not sure that she's actually trying to hurt Kev and Vee.  We'll see.  But I think her loyalty will lie with Mickey.  Mickey was her pimp, her boss when she was working upstairs in the bar.  He was always in charge.  Not to mention he's the baby daddy.  Last we saw, he was taking care of business in jail ("in the eye").  I think Lana is gonna owe Mickey.  She and the Russians are behind his escape.  I think the writers owe Team Gallavich some closure.... or even better a reunion!  I'm still not over them. 

I'm ready for the throuple to be over.  I loved it when Kev and Vee were the loving couple that would do anything for the other and always put each other first.  <3 

Ian's story is too much for me to wrap my head around.  I agree that it's more like a PC documentary on trans life.  It has no real depth or dimension.  I also agree that Trevor demands respect but is insensitive and gives little in return.  Ian and Trevor's relationship appears to be rather one sided.  I'm ready for it to be over.  Not a Trevor fan.  Ian will find that passionate love again. 

Monica adds nothing to the story line.  I loved to hate seeing Monica sweep in and cause a bunch of chaos.  But now that the kids are old.... it just doesn't add anything to the storyline.  I'm ready for her to go entirely and be a bad memory.  I also think that the writers did an excellent job with using Monica to remind us the Lana is not original to the show and also to show us how young and innocent Liam is by them not knowing who she is.  But she needs to go.

I love to hate Frank.  But I disagree with many people that said he needs to go.  He adds to the storyline and to the dimension of the family.  I understand what someone said about how he can take care of Etta, but not his kids.... but think about it.... he takes care of his kids on occasion as well.  He shows up, swoops in, helps or gives gems and then fucks up again.  He doesn't stick around.  And he will do the same with Etta.  Just give him time.  He won't stick around.  He'll be on to the next con.  And Fiona knows that there's nothing she can do to stop him.  She just has to keep an eye out.

I'm proud of Fiona for stepping away from the family.  It's what she needed.  She had nothing left to give them and was on the fast track to destruction.  She stepped away, is getting her shit together and when she's able to take care of them again she will.  She will never let them go.  I loved the moment around the table when they were all "fucking Monica"  It reminded us of how the show started and how close knit this family once was and hopefully will be again.

Debbie... ugh..... I am disgusted by her behavior.  Shame on her.  However, I think Debbie was stuck being that middle child and always looking for love from parents who never gave it.  Debbie so desperately wanted love and a family and that's where Franny comes in.  She gave it to herself.  She's messing up.  But she honestly doesn't know better.  She's too young.  But she is trying to step up and do what she needs to do for Franny.  She didn't listen to Fiona when Fiona said she was too young to have a baby.  But Episode 9 showed that she's ready to start maybe hearing what Fiona has to say.  I see the kids rallying as a family  like they once were.  And I like that. I was worried that Monica was going to mess up the hearing when she showed up.  Glad she didn't and the worker put them all in their place.  A real wakeup call for Debs.  I remember Fiona, even after everything, wanted to believe that things would change... remember when Monica took the squirrel fund.  Remember that heartwrenching scene..... I thought things would be different...... Fiona was older than Debs is now.  And she still believed.  Debs is still young enough to have hope.  And that's why she let Monica take a baseball bat to the house.  Plus she was willing to do whatever it took to get Franny back. 

Lip is Frank 2.0 as someone else put it.  Addiction is awful.  I have seen this exact story with addicts in my life.  It's a very real story.  He's unraveling.  I'm so disappointed.  Perhaps the pressure of being the family's savior was too much.  Also.... what's up with professor?  Why all the help after Lip fucks you over time and time again.  I get he sees himself in Lip, but really?  What's his end game?  Is there a con in this for him too?  I don't see his angle.

Edited November 29, 2016 by LisaS848

[Tatum]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

I hate how Vee/Kev/Svet's story is being positioned for Fiona to not only ride in like a conquering hero, but position Svetlana as the "true" source of Fiona's problems with Vee.

Fiona had no problem with Svetlana, beyond occasionally ridiculing her line of work, until recently; even going as far as letting her (re)design her wedding dress and participate as a bridesmaid in her aborted wedding.

But now, because of retcons and writer's fiat, Fiona will totally skate on being a tremendous jerk and Vee will be left to grovel as if their current argument (and overall relationship) were equally yoked, when they never were.

I know! Last week when Fiona was lamenting her estranged friendship thanks to Svetlana, I was like, selective memory much?

39 minutes ago, LisaS848 said:

I'm not even really sure what Fi and Vee are fighting about.

It really wasn't a fight per se. Vee spent the last three seasons basically being a sounding board for Fiona, as Fiona made one poor decision after another. I think after the Tinder thing started, Vee realized just how far apart she and Fiona had grown. Fiona comes barreling into Vee's bar and tells her- doesn't ask, just tells her- she will need to loan Fiona like 60 bottles of wine. First, I don't even know if the Alibi has 60 bottles on hand, but if they do, that would probably deplete their supply, and second, even at the cheapest wholesale price, that's probably still about $500 to $1,800 worth at cost, and probably at least $2K in lost retail sales, and third, Fiona has a long, unfortunate track record with investing money into a job from which she's supposed to be earning money (like paying that bar money to let her throw a party in season 2, using Jimmy's windfall to fake a big sale for the cup company- both of which she ended up either losing money or losing the job) which means odds aren't too long that Fiona would not be able to pay Vee back.

 

Anyways, it was a huge favor to ask, and Vee irritably pointed out that every time Fiona has been by lately it's been to either ask Vee for a favor or prattle on about herself. Fiona, instead of immediately apologizing (which, IMO, she owed Vee an apology), gives her bitchface and snaps that Vee is the one who is too busy for Fiona, and flounces out.

 

Fiona has been a huge entitled bitch-with a penchant for revisionist history- for much of the last three seasons. She demands something, and when she doesn't get it, like when her boss turned down her request for a percentage of the store sales, or when Vee said no to donating alcohol, she gets really snotty.

[LisaS848]

23 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I know! Last week when Fiona was lamenting her estranged friendship thanks to Svetlana, I was like, selective memory much?

It really wasn't a fight per se. Vee spent the last three seasons basically being a sounding board for Fiona, as Fiona made one poor decision after another. I think after the Tinder thing started, Vee realized just how far apart she and Fiona had grown. Fiona comes barreling into Vee's bar and tells her- doesn't ask, just tells her- she will need to loan Fiona like 60 bottles of wine. First, I don't even know if the Alibi has 60 bottles on hand, but if they do, that would probably deplete their supply, and second, even at the cheapest wholesale price, that's probably still about $500 to $1,800 worth at cost, and probably at least $2K in lost retail sales, and third, Fiona has a long, unfortunate track record with investing money into a job from which she's supposed to be earning money (like paying that bar money to let her throw a party in season 2, using Jimmy's windfall to fake a big sale for the cup company- both of which she ended up either losing money or losing the job) which means odds aren't too long that Fiona would not be able to pay Vee back.

 

Anyways, it was a huge favor to ask, and Vee irritably pointed out that every time Fiona has been by lately it's been to either ask Vee for a favor or prattle on about herself. Fiona, instead of immediately apologizing (which, IMO, she owed Vee an apology), gives her bitchface and snaps that Vee is the one who is too busy for Fiona, and flounces out.

 

Fiona has been a huge entitled bitch-with a penchant for revisionist history- for much of the last three seasons. She demands something, and when she doesn't get it, like when her boss turned down her request for a percentage of the store sales, or when Vee said no to donating alcohol, she gets really snotty.

Very good point, but not this huge friendship ruining thing.  At least I don't think so.  Not for the kind of lifelong friendship they've built.  IDK if it's possible for Fiona to be huge entitled bitch.  She never had anything to feel entitled.  However, I think that she tends to take from more than she gives to Vee.  And Vee just ain't got time for that shit right now.  And I do think that Fi is entitled to focus on herself.  And that she should just like she is.  Otherwise she will become more destructive and just hurt her siblings more instead of help.  But her and Vee have been like BFFs to the Nth and now they just stop being friends?  Fiona is a lot about "me" to Vee.  And Vee hasn't had time to entertain Fiona like she always has.  As far as the bar and asking for wine.... Fi still considers Vee her friend which is why she went to her and she does try to talk to Vee like when Vee shut the door in her face.  Vee just doesn't have time to "be friends."  The dynamic has changed.  I think their lives have gone in different directions.  Vee doesn't have time for Fiona. (She should make time.) And Fiona is still the whiney clingy needy friend.  So I guess I do see both sides of this "fight."  As far as Lana... I don't think Fiona ever really liked her.  I think she just let her do the wedding thing because she had a need and Vee offered Lana as a solution, not because she approved of or liked Lana.  I think they're both being stupid girls and need to just talk and be BFFs again.  I kinda feel like Vee is doing this to Kev in a way too.  Just blowing him off.  All for Lana.  I see why he was worried she loves Lana more.  Vee seems to be chutting down to people other than Lana, who does no wrong in Vee's eyes.  I see you make some very interesting points for the tension.  thank you!

[Tatum]

18 minutes ago, LisaS848 said:

Very good point, but not this huge friendship ruining thing...

Well, I don't think it should have been. I think the correct response of Fiona should have been, I'm sorry Vee, I guess I have been kind of self absorbed lately. I'm in the middle of trying to get this evening organized, but let's get together this weekend and catch each other up. Instead, Fiona turns into a snot, and stomps out of the bar, and what was a mild overreaction from Vee said in a moment of aggravation escalates into a major fight. Vee was unnecessarily combative, but Fiona was not behaving like a very good friend lately. It's all moot though, because as @Dee pointed out, the last few episodes are being rewritten as though Svet pushed Fiona out of the circle and Vee was too enamored of Svet to notice.

18 minutes ago, LisaS848 said:

  IDK if it's possible for Fiona to be huge entitled bitch.  She never had anything to feel entitled.

For someone who has grown up with so little, I think Fiona IS massively entitled. Just a couple examples: in the season where she was dating Mike, I think she joined the company as a temp, doing admin work. Mike comments that the cup company is hiring a salesperson, and Fiona says, I want it. Not, can I interview for it, but just, I want it, like she expected it to be given to her just because she was interested. When Mike said they needed someone with experience, Fiona more or less accused him of sexual harassment, because they were either dating, or Mike had let it be known he was interested in her.

Then, two seasons ago, she cheats on her new husband, and when he turns down her offer to go on tour with him, gets really snitty about how he's not working on their relationship if he's going to leave her for 5 weeks.

And this season, Carl GAVE her the money for the house, and she's now acting like she's a big shot because the house is in her name, and threatening to kick people out if they don't do what she says (fyi- I have no problem with her expecting her adult siblings to contribute financially. But her dictator approach is uncool when she did nothing herself to actually procure the house).

And I think telling Vee to loan her alcohol was entitled. There's a difference between, hey Vee, I am throwing an illegal party tonight and need 60 bottles of wine, and I don't have the capital to purchase that right now. Can I please have wine from your stock, and I will give you cash tomorrow, vs. hey Vee, I need you to loan me 60 bottles of wine.

 

And telling both the owner of Patsy's and the owner's assistant that she is owed a percentage of sales for essentially doing her job was super entitled.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Tatum

[LisaS848]

4 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Well, I don't think it should have been. I think the correct response of Fiona should have been, I'm sorry Vee, I guess I have been kind of self absorbed lately. I'm in the middle of trying to get this evening organized, but let's get together this weekend and catch each other up. Instead, Fiona turns into a snot, and stomps out of the bar, and what was a mild overreaction from Vee said in a moment of aggravation escalates into a major fight. Vee was unnecessarily combative, but Fiona was not behaving like a very good friend lately. It's all moot though, because as @Dee pointed out, the last few episodes are being rewritten as though Svet pushed Fiona out of the circle and Vee was too enamored of Svet to notice.

For someone who has grown up with so little, I think Fiona IS massively entitled. Just a couple examples: in the season where she was dating Mike, I think she joined the company as a temp, doing admin work. Mike comments that the cup company is hiring a salesperson, and Fiona says, I want it. Not, can I interview for it, but just, I want it, like she expected it to be given to her just because she was interested. When Mike said they needed someone with experience, Fiona more or less accused him of sexual harassment, because they were either dating, or Mike had let it be known he was interested in her.

Then, last season, she cheats on her new husband, and when he turns down her offer to go on tour with him, gets really snitty about how he's not working on their relationship if he's going to leave her for 5 weeks.

And this season, Carl GAVE her the money for the house, and she's now acting like she's a big shot because the house is in her name, and threatening to kick people out if they don't do what she says (fyi- I have no problem with her expecting her adult siblings to contribute financially. But her dictator approach is uncool when she did nothing herself to actually procure the house).

And I think telling Vee to loan her alcohol was entitled. There's a difference between, hey Vee, I am throwing an illegal party tonight and need 60 bottles of wine, and I don't have the capital to purchase that right now. Can I please have wine from your stock, and I will give you cash tomorrow, vs. hey Vee, I need you to loan me 60 bottles of wine.

 

And telling both the owner of Patsy's and the owner's assistant that she is owed a percentage of sales for essentially doing her job was super entitled.

All excellent examples.  But I also think these examples are Fiona's way of asserting herself.  She was never really around professionalism or class so I'm confident she had no idea how to handle herself in the workplace.  And the route she took was pretty much the Gallagher route (sexual harrassment accusations, etc).  She had no role models for raising a family.  She was just winging it, apparently beginning from age 6 and I think her dictatorship was her way of trying to reign the family back in.  I'm certainly not saying she's not in the wrong.  Please don't think that.  I'm just explaining (not excusing) her behavior.  Hopefully distancing herself and finding this new role model (the business woman) will help that.  Plus I think she's that way because she was a child raising 5 other children and somehow they all survived.  That speaks volumes.  But I do see your points.  I think both Vee and Fi are at fault for their friendship bump in the road.  And for the record.... I think Vee has been too enamored with Lana to see some things (aside from Fiona) which is also causing her to be dismissive of Kev. 

So glad I joined this board!  The hubs and colleagues won't have in depth discussions with me like this!  They are like it's a tv show.  Who cares.  lol  I CARE!  I'M OBSESSED!  lol I love this! 

[LisaS848]

Anyone thinking there may be a Kev and Fiona story growing?

[Tatum]

29 minutes ago, LisaS848 said:

 And for the record.... I think Vee has been too enamored with Lana to see some things (aside from Fiona) which is also causing her to be dismissive of Kev. 

 

I definitely think Vee has blinders on when it comes to Svet and is super dismissive to Kev. I just don't think Svet can be blamed for the rift between Vee and Fiona.

Vee isn't blameless, but I think it's way more Fiona's fault than Vee's.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

2 hours ago, LisaS848 said:

Anyone thinking there may be a Kev and Fiona story growing?

BLEH BLEH BLEH

Fiona is just jealous Svetlana stole Vee from her...which is why she was overall okay with Svetlana initally.

[Dee]

The thing is that Vee has always been super supportive of Fiona investing in herself. Always.

That's been one of the core aspects of their enduring friendship.

Another core aspect of their friendship has been Fiona putting Vee on a immovable pedestal that Vee never appreciated nor ever wanted to be on.

At the beginning of Season Seven we see Vee constantly make efforts to initiate she and Fiona's usual girl talks, with Fiona dimissively blowing her off because she's either in the middle of blowing everyone in her life off in the name of self preservation or she outright just refuses to discuss anything.

This is after she conveniently told all of her siblings, Liam excluded, that they were to put Kev and Vee above HER on their emergency contact lists because SHE was done caring for everyone else. Set aside the fact that that might be the most selfishly entitled thing Fiona has ever done in the entire run of the show, but she did this knowing full well Kev and Vee are running a struggling neighborhood bar with their new wife and three kids of their own to feed. Even on a show called Shameless, that's beyond the pale.

When Fiona comes bouncing into the Alibi to request fashion advice for, and to brag about, her speakeasy she barely says hello before she's demanding inordinate amounts (for the Alibi) of liquor from Vee.

After Vee tiredly responds to her demand with the sober assertion that Fiona only comes around when she needs something, Fiona reacts in disbelief. When Vee further explains she's had a really difficult day and that despite the fact that they've rarely spoken in weeks, Fiona still waltzes in with a laundry list of demands without so much as a hello. Fiona immediately ignores ALL of Vee's previous points to make Vee feel guilty for not being aware of Fiona's recent promotion at Patsy's. Then she digs the dagger in further, telling Vee that Vee would've known if Vee had bothered to check in with her.

To which Vee then tells Fiona that she was just at her house the day before and if she hadn't been so busy kicking Debbie out she might have been willing to share that aspect of her life. And seeing as Fiona expected Kev/Vee to be more responsible for her sibs than Fiona herself, it isn't too much for Vee to comment on the goings-on in the Gallagher household. Fiona then stresses that she asked Debbie to get a job and shifts all of the blame for her own previous behavior directly to Svetlana (who by this time has sidled up next to Vee) who gave Debbie concrete advice to support herself in the event that Fiona kicked, she and Franny, out of Chez Gallagher.

Svetlana interjects that Debbie has the tools to be a marketable sex worker, to which Fiona nastily tells her to go fuck herself. Vee then re-interjects and says that if they, Vee & Fiona, have things to discuss, they'll do so later. Fiona puts the brakes on that by guilt tripping Vee for being "busy" aka living her own life, thereby not having time for Fiona and her shit, then storms out.

During Fiona and Vee's ensuing "Cold War," Fiona gives Ian serious side eye for making nice with Veronica. When he inquires to the source of their fight, Fiona gives him shit for doing laundry at their house instead of the local laundromat. To which Ian replies that just because Fiona is icing everyone else out doesn't mean he has to. When Ian further inquires into Fiona's current state of mind, she responds that she's working around the clock and doing great. Ian incredulously asks Fiona how hard can managing a diner be if it means her not giving a shit about her siblings and Vee. Fiona then challenges him about "not giving a shit" and refuses to apologize for "getting her life together." Then she brusquely states that Vee, along with Ian and the rest of their siblings will be fine when they all realize "self improvement is not a crime."

The thing is this current "Self Improved" Fiona is completely antithetical to her entire friendship with Veronica. From the pilot episode of this show until now, Veronica has never once allowed Fiona to doubt herself, nor has she pushed Fiona beyond her capability. Whenever Fiona has EVER shown even the slightest bit of initiative in improving her station in life, Vee has always been there with broad smiles, big hugs, warm encouragement and whatever resources she (Vee) can muster up to help on Fiona's behalf.

So for Fiona to act as if Vee is a bitch, now, because for once Vee is choosing to focus primarily on her own life? Is insanity.

Especially since even with everything going on in Vee's life, Vee has not once flagged in her best friend duties. It wasn't her fault that Fiona refused to talk when she's visited and it's not her style to push Fiona into conversations Fiona has no desire to participate in. And Fiona KNOWINGLY using Svetlana as a convenient shield through all this, allowing her to neatly evade just how much of a giant asshole she's being/been to Veronica, is despicable.

But then, when "Self Improved" Fiona is making role models out of random businesswomen she barely knows and eagerly taking advice from one/two night Tinder stands, over her own family and a best friend that will, and has, moved heaven and earth for her? Something is certainly rotten in Denmark.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dee

[iMonrey]

Quote

Carl GAVE her the money for the house, and she's now acting like she's a big shot because the house is in her name, and threatening to kick people out if they don't do what she says (fyi- I have no problem with her expecting her adult siblings to contribute financially. But her dictator approach is uncool when she did nothing herself to actually procure the house).

 

You make some good points but WRT the house - the money Carl gave her was from his illegal gun sales. It's illegal loot and he's not old enough to put the house in his own name anyway, so I don't think she necessarily owes him anything for giving her the money. Not saying she's entitled to it either - nobody is, really. But what made her put her foot down wasn't the fact that she owned the house. It was that she went through the day trying to take care of her own life and kept getting calls about Debbie and Ian and Liam and had to rush off to take care of their shit instead of her own. She used the house as leverage to get them to take care of themselves. Not really a sense of entitlement there, considering she's devoted her whole life to taking care of her siblings up to this point. And if it is entitlement, she's earned it - on that score, anyway. She entitled to not have to take care of and pay for her grown siblings anymore, regardless of where the money for the house came from.

[Dee]

Nobody's asked Fiona to foot the bill for her adult siblings, ie, Lip & Ian. In fact, I don't think either of them would feel comfortable living at home without contributing financially.

Fiona's biggest problem was she was dealing with her siblings as a collective instead of as individual cases. Each one of them comes with very specific circumstances that could've come in handy, and cut out a lot of her current drama, had she thought her game plan through instead charging into her self improvement phase like a bull in a china shop.

For instance, she insisted that Ian maintain taking his meds responsibly & manage to hold down a steady job. A feat which Ian, after a lot of drama, has done. Instead of working out a flexible schedule where he picks up Liam from daycare or helps Debbie find a job, Fiona ignores him altogether to the point where he comes dangerously close to going off his meds & almost kills someone at work, in between partying & getting drunk all night while contributing nothing to the family in general.

She'd rather fight with Lip, instead of swallowing her pride and asking him to be her business advisor. Lip can be, and has been, a gigantic asshole to Fiona in the past, but it's usually because Fiona acts unilaterally, risking the family's stability in the process. If she had included him on the ground floor as an equal partner, he might have been able to skim a little bit more money from his gaming job to help with getting the laundromat off the ground. He could've also confided in her about how at loose ends Carl was, thus allowing them to work together to keep their little brother from unnecessarily mutilating himself, and spending good money that could've been allocated elsewhere.

And so on & so forth.

However, years of Fiona being in control has made her forget the crucial element to her family's success. The family stayed together because of her ultimate sacrifice(s), but they remained a functioning unit because they worked as a team.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dee

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

 

You make some good points but WRT the house - the money Carl gave her was from his illegal gun sales. It's illegal loot and he's not old enough to put the house in his own name anyway, so I don't think she necessarily owes him anything for giving her the money. Not saying she's entitled to it either - nobody is, really. But what made her put her foot down wasn't the fact that she owned the house. It was that she went through the day trying to take care of her own life and kept getting calls about Debbie and Ian and Liam and had to rush off to take care of their shit instead of her own. She used the house as leverage to get them to take care of themselves....

 

I disagree. Fiona gave them each a bill and announced that was what she decided was fair. There was no discussion of what her outgoing bills were, there was no discussion of what the household budget would be, there was no discussion over her responsibilities as the self appointed landlord. It was, pay me this money or you're out on your ass. I found that very shitty. While she's the legal owner, that was for convenience only. Had Fiona gotten the mortgage the first time around THEN I would argue she has a leg to stand on with regards to charging rent. But really, she was given this asset solely because Carl believed it would keep their family together and she's exploiting it.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Tatum

[Tatum]

On a different note, I LOVED Fiona's verbal beatdown of the north shore hipster. I just wish she had stopped short of rubbing the cheeseburger into the girl's shirt. Not because the girl didn't deserve it- she totally did- but it probably just validated the bitchy yelper's attitude that all south side girls are trashy. Really, Fiona's assessment of that girl was very accurate and probably hurt a lot more than being told her shirt was ugly and then having food smeared into it. There was nothing constructive about that girl's feedback-it was just mean spirited for the sake of being mean spirited. 

 

That said, Fiona has to be prepared for that type of trolling. If she's going to take these things so personally, she does not have a bright future as a business owner. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Tatum

[LuciaMia]

Quote

If she's going to take these things so personally, she does not have a bright future as a business owner. 

Hey, she's acting no differently than the President-elect.

Okay, back on topic. Somebody wondered in fMonica was being truthful about her   condition. I think she is, but about it being hopeless? It seemed odd that there was no mention of any kind of treatment of any kind. 

[Tatum]

15 minutes ago, LuciaMia said:

Hey, she's acting no differently than the President-elect.

Okay, back on topic. Somebody wondered in fMonica was being truthful about her   condition. I think she is, but about it being hopeless? It seemed odd that there was no mention of any kind of treatment of any kind. 

Because it's Monica, and Shameless, I'm sure it's a lie. But if your cancer prognosis IS really poor, there are cases where doctors will refuse to treat you. My uncle had colon cancer that spread to most of his body and by the time he discovered it, major organs had already begun failing. He had to see three different specialists before he was allowed to start chemo. The first two oncologists felt that treatment would buy him very minimal, if any, time, and would severely lower the quality of his remaining life. The third doctor- who was not even an oncologist-warned him it was likely a futile effort and if it were the doctor in his shoes he would just try and live out his remaining days without treatment, but it was my uncle's decision to make. He had young children and felt like he had to try. He died less than 5 months after starting treatment.

[LisaS848]

2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Because it's Monica, and Shameless, I'm sure it's a lie. But if your cancer prognosis IS really poor, there are cases where doctors will refuse to treat you. My uncle had colon cancer that spread to most of his body and by the time he discovered it, major organs had already begun failing. He had to see three different specialists before he was allowed to start chemo. The first two oncologists felt that treatment would buy him very minimal, if any, time, and would severely lower the quality of his remaining life. The third doctor- who was not even an oncologist-warned him it was likely a futile effort and if it were the doctor in his shoes he would just try and live out his remaining days without treatment, but it was my uncle's decision to make. He had young children and felt like he had to try. He died less than 5 months after starting treatment.

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.

[LisaS848]

1 hour ago, LuciaMia said:

Okay, back on topic. Somebody wondered in fMonica was being truthful about her   condition. I think she is, but about it being hopeless? It seemed odd that there was no mention of any kind of treatment of any kind. 

I think there may be something wrong.  I'm ready to see her go.  She's a fantastic actress, has a great dynamic with the cast and brings out some really great things (I mean passion/acting) in the other characters/actors.  I know some people love her character because of the chaos and the reaction to the chaos which really is fun, but I just don't think we need her.  Frank does that well, although in a different way.  I'm over her disappearing and coming back, apologizing and saying love me, love me, love me, I promise I'll stay bullshit.  It's just same old same old.  If she's gonna stay on then she needs to do something different.  Although maybe "dying" real or fake is her something different.  I wonder what her scheme is this time.  At first I thought perhaps insurance money, but insurance won't cover a preexisting condition.  And I hope the bank robbery that was in the previews isn't her plan.  That's gonna be a bust obviously, albeit a hysterical bust.  Also..... Frank and Monica.... LOVED when she starting reciting the statute verbatim when she was breaking the windows with the baseball bat.  I was cracking up!  And when she was throwing the shoes at the window.  Frank's head against the window softened him.  She is definitely his soft spot. 

Is anyone else missing more "touching" moments from the show?  This episode had the Frank and Monica scene with her aneurism, but I feel like I haven't been moved by the characters for a while.  Like when Fiona gave her speech in court about Frank....or when Fiona dies.... when Monica attempts suicide at Thanksgiving and Debs and Carl curl up to Fiona.... or when Nick kills the boy with the hammer.  And so many more.  (Don't get me started with Gallavich, we'll be here all day lol) I feel like I haven't gotten that as much this season.  Am I forgetting something?

Edited November 30, 2016 by LisaS848

[Petunia13]

I always find Monica interesting since my mom is bipolar  

[aemom]

How is Monica able to be at the laundromat all day while she is still employed as the manager of Patsy's?

Employers want you to actually be at the job they are paying you for.

[Smoov]

On 1/1/2017 at 1:06 AM, AEMom said:

How is Monica able to be at the laundromat all day while she is still employed as the manager of Patsy's?

Employers want you to actually be at the job they are paying you for.

You mean Fiona

[Smoov]

Does anyone know what Debs meant in the Alibi when Monica found out she was a grandmother and said she's the happiest since the summer Debs was born, and Debs replied with something along the lines of "No, it was winter, my birthday is in the summer"? I was confused as to what she was referring to.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Smoov

[aemom]

10 hours ago, Smoov said:

Does anyone know what Debs meant in the Alibi when Monica found out she was a grandmother and said she's the happiest since the summer Debs was born, and Debs replied with something along the lines of "No, it was winter, my birthday is in the summer"? I was confused as to what she was referring to.

Debbie said: "No, winter. My birthday's in December. "

Re my above post, you're totally right that it's Fiona, not Monica. I totally wrote the wrong name in my post.

[Smoov]

18 hours ago, AEMom said:

Debbie said: "No, winter. My birthday's in December. "

Re my above post, you're totally right that it's Fiona, not Monica. I totally wrote the wrong name in my post.

Lol ohhh it sounded like she said summer, I was really confused about that...lol thanks for the clarification!