S06.E09: Changelings

[InsertWordHere]

I'm thinking Black is the reason the no fairy romance rule exists. If they do a flashback I wonder if they would use Robbie Kay or Stephen Lord. The latter would make more sense given wee Rumple's age when Malcolm became Pan but I want to see RK again. The Black Fairy actress' age relative to either of the  Pan actors doesn't really matter since she's a fairy. There's lots of ageless people in that family. Even without the Dark One aspect, Rumple, Bae, Gideon, and Henry are all part fairy. Henry and Gideon must be having the opposite of the rest of the family's no-aging/age regression problem. 

[maryle]

Ok This episode solidify my new year resolution to only watched episode I will find compelling because even if I actually excited for this one is not enough

thoughts while watching.

I It is the worst soap I  ever watched. Because let's face it this season is the soapist and I don't like soap. So not sure why I watch.

The EQ main focus is what ever she want with Rumple ( won't help the believability OQ epic love reunion Next week)

And Rumbelle dysfunction relationship.

About Rumbelle I was happy that it was Rumple all along. They didn't go with ; he was possess like many rumbelle wanted. Maybe I could still be able to continue watching this storyline a little longer.

But, the poor Rumple had shitty childhood is old. And don't excuse everything he did to Belle either.

I also thought that the Rumple  in the E F. make up was different than usual more scary and less comical.

I did liked the CS scene and thought Jen and Colin was good for showing the maximum concern and emotion with so little text.

I loved how Emma make a pause touched Killian and added ... people I love. In the granny scene in the end.

Too much EQ everywhere chewing the scene. I like Zelena but her story is part of the soapy and mostly a plot device at this point.

Edited November 28, 2016 by maryle
Spelling

[KingOfHearts]

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The Show completely ruined Jasmine. 

And Karen David.

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I wonder if it has anything to do with the whole "fairies don't fall in love" rule that came up with Grumpy and Nova. Did she get caught violating that rule and was forced to leave her family, which turned her evil? Or was this the reason behind the rule?

So she went all Anakin Skywalker?

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On the plus side: Henry only had one line in this episode.

Wait... Henry was in this episode?

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I'm thinking Black is the reason the no fairy romance rule exists. If they do a flashback I wonder if they would use Robbie Kay or Stephen Lord. The latter would make more sense given wee Rumple's age when Malcolm became Pan but I want to see RK again. 

Either way - this is the woman who banged with Peter Pan. It's rather funny she has a penchant for kidnapping children. That's what he does. Maybe he took lessons from her. Perhaps she has a whole gang of orphans working for her.

It was way too much of a coincidence that Regina just happened to be going to Zelena's house for magic at the perfect time. The Evil Queen really should have called Regina's bluff, because that's what it was - a bluff. Heart squeezing wasn't enough to prove she was actually going to do it.

The Evil Queen wore three different costumes in this episode. The one she wore while confronting Zelena looked atrocious.

Funny thought - Rumple is half fairy. LOL.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Even though stuff "happened", this episode was really boring.  It doesn't help that I was emotionally unmoved by anything that happened.  They've gone *that* far.  After Rumple's treatment of Belle for the last season, are we supposed to go awww when he decided he wouldn't accelerate the pregnancy?  That script tease had instructions to the director and the actors that Rumple was not being "threatening" and it's "confessional" as he cornered her in the elevator?  It looked totally threatening.  The lines are almost laughable now.  Belle: "I never wanted you to be perfect!"  Vying for the Understatement of The Year award there?

Finding out that Rumple's mother abandoned him makes zero difference.  I couldn't even muster up a sadface when Belle gave up the baby either.  I'm just so done with this subplot. 

A lot of the busy-plot stuff made little to no sense to me.   Why did they need squid ink to look for the Shears?  Apparently, anyone can break in to the Shop, and they did it later that night with no problem.  Did they think they would find the Shears in the 5 seconds the ink held Rumple for?  It was just a dumb way for Emma to happen upon her own murder weapon.  The point of Rumple rapidly aging the nun was what exactly?  Cool special effects?  Was he that stupid to think it would make Belle change her mind?  It's not even thinking strategically.  In the flashback, wasn't Rumple just using the baby as bait?  What did Blue mean that ONLY non-magic could save the baby?  Blue couldn't care less that she may have been sending a witless innocent to her death?  All Rumple wanted was to summon The Black Fairy to ask her if she was his mommy?  Why didn't he do that a few hundred years ago?  

I'm glad Snow is over never seeing Charming again.  She was so frustrated at the end of last episode, but now she's just grading papers, and aiding Dumb and Dumber.  Yes, your father finding a genie's lamp turned out sooooooo well... actually, it led to his death, but dear Friend Jasmine, this is your CHANCE to be a hero!  

It was obvious Regina was bluffing about squeezing her own heart to dust.  Why didn't she spend the rest of the day squeezing it for kicks?  It is just so contrived that Regina is still blaming Zelena for Robin's death.  Even if she was still blaming Zelena, shouldn't she have made nice with Zelena, so The Evil Queen wouldn't have a powerful magical sidekick?  Wouldn't that have been the smart thing to do?  Except Zelena was just so convenient weak this week.  

What a disappointment.  We only have one more episode left before the winter break, and there was zero buildup to anything.  

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't remember what the lamp Jafar got put into looked like, but I was wondering if perhaps those cuffs were a sign that Jafar had escaped/been freed.

He was trapped in a bottle, not a lamp.

[kitticup]

I liked the episode.  I thought the acting was good.  The actors are so much better than the writing.  I liked Emile.  This season Belle is more like able and I think Emile's acting has improved.  The A story was good.  I wish Snow was there with Belle, instead of with Jasmine.  They both had to let their babies go to give their child  their best chance.  

I also liked that EQ knew that Rumple was playing her and she rubbed in his lost son.

i am so tired of Regina's hypocrisy.  She's awful.  I don't understand why Zelena didn't defend herself. 

I really don't want Regina to be the one in AU.  

I have a new Crack theory/wish:  I want the Black Fairy to be Killian's mother too.  Let's really twist the family tree.

[Rumsy4]

13 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It doesn't help that I was emotionally unmoved by anything that happened.  They've gone *that* far.  

Yup. 

[KingOfHearts]

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 I want the Black Fairy to be Killian's mother too.  

The Black Fairy is the mother of every main character in every Disney movie that didn't have a mom. She's also the mother of Pocahontas, Ariel, Jasmine, and Cinderella. 

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It doesn't help that I was emotionally unmoved by anything that happened.  They've gone *that* far.  

I was only moved emotionally by Regina's speech, but that was out of anger.

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i am so tired of Regina's hypocrisy.  She's awful.  

Never thought I'd say this, but... I hate Regina.

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I was surprised by the Black Fairy mother reveal but I still feel no sympathy for Rumple.

Ditto. Rumple needs to die.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[superloislane]

This was pretty boring. I've lost all interest in the Rumbelle baby drama that I was completely meh during the supposedly emotional scenes. I'm scared they're going to use Rumple not speeding the pregnancy up as a reason why Belle will go back to him. 'Oh you didn't do it? That means you have a good heart and I'll forget everything else'. Although I thought the dream scenes were beautifully done.

Regina the hypocrite strikes again! When you have ME feeling bad for ZELENA then you know you've gone wrong. So only she should have a free pass and forgiveness from all her victims no matter how unrealistic but Zelena can't? She's basically blaming Zelena for being in a relationship with the man who killed Robin (which Regina told her to do) even though Zelena actually killed her true love just to save Regina! It's ridiculous.

I loved Emma being there for Belle giving birth since Emma didn't have anyone there for her when she gave birth. But when she found the sword in Gold's shop, why wouldn't she immediately think it's Rumple who kills her? That's the first thought I had.

I was surprised by the Black Fairy mother reveal but I still feel no sympathy for Rumple.

I had totally forgotten about the Snow/Jasmine scene in the diner earlier in the episode so when the loft scene with the genie lamp happened I was so surprised because I thought it came out of absolutely nowhere.

Also Snow is still teaching while cursed? Poor Charming - it seems like Snow gets to be awake during the day time and gets to hang out with people and go to work and everything but Charming wakes up at night when everyone is asleep? He got the short end of the stick there.

[Dianthus]

@KingOfHearts, I'm almost sorry to say this, but welcome to my world. I know you liked Regina, and this must really suck for you. Seriously. No snark.

I did enjoy the small CS moments, and Emma being there for Belle, and how Killian didn't even so much as insinuate an "I told you so" towards her.

[KingOfHearts]

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@KingOfHearts, I'm almost sorry to say this, but welcome to my world. I know you liked Regina, and this must really suck for you. Seriously. No snark.

I think I am joining a very, very large club.

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Emma being there for Belle

Which has never happened before, so it was surprising.

I found Zelena's crying to be really upsetting for some reason. It was like Regina was kicking a puppy. I may be whitewashing Zelena too much, but dang. I can't help but feel sorry for her.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[statsgirl]

Yes to everything about the hypocrisy of Regina and Belle.

On a positive note, it was great to see Jaime Murray again (H.G. from Warehouse 13, Stahma Tarr from Defiance).  I hope her casting means we'll see more of the Black Fairy.

[Mathius]

41 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I found Zelena's crying to be really upsetting for some reason. It was like Regina was kicking a puppy. I may be whitewashing Zelena too much, but dang. I can't help but feel sorry for her.

I don't think it's whitewashing her at all, I feel the same way, particularly since Zelena, before Regina said anything, actually apologized and totally owned up to how stupid and wrong she was for siding with the Evil Queen.  She was clearly all set to forgive Regina for their earlier quarrels and expected Regina to do the same since she thought Regina would be mature enough to realize that this is all she actually has to forgive Zelena for - quarrels.  But no, Regina still blames Robin's death on Zelena, and then has the audacity to bring up the other bad things Zelena had done to "her and her friends"...."her friends" all being her former victims, people who have suffered more because of Regina than anyone else!  They are STILL suffering because of her, it's her fault that Snow and Charming are in the miserable situation they are now!  And yet in spite of all that, they forgive Regina and consider her redeemed, as Zelena correctly points out, and yet Regina says she'll "never forgive" someone who has done FAR less to her and to them.

I wouldn't be as angry if I thought the writers were aware of this hypocrisy and were doing this intentionally, but I know that they aren't. It's TS, TW.

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Never thought I'd say this, but... I hate Regina.

And regardless of what a crap villain she is, I continue to prefer the EQ for being, as she once correctly put it, "the honest part of Regina". She made no excuses when she attacked Zelena and was upfront about her motives for wanting her dead, plus there was no hypocrisy involved. Her screwing Rumple over also earned her some major points.  I would much rather keep her around than sanctimonious St. Regina, but sadly that won't happen.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Mathius

[kitticup]

I forgot to addd that I liked that Regina's heart was very black.

[thuganomics85]

So, the flashbacks reveal that Rumple's mother was the Black Fairy (played by Jaime Murray!!), who also had abandoned him for power or some shit.  He really has the work luck with parents, I see.  Despite that and Robert Carlyle's normal awesome self, it still doesn't change that Rumple is an irredeemable dick, which I normally wouldn't mind, if I didn't feel like the show wants me to root for him to be redeemed.  I would much rather they finally just make him an official big baddie, but I have a feeling they never well.  Also, the more we see of the time he and Belle locked up, the more it makes less and less sense that Belle would see the "good in him."  The guy was willing to sacrifice a baby without a second though.  Belle really took all of this into account and was like "Well, yeah, he's got issues, but there is goodness in him!"?  Whatever.  I do wonder if the Black Fairy will be back, because I would like to think they wouldn't cast Jaime Murray and not bring her back.

Sigh... I was warming up to Regina, and then she just has to get all high and mighty on Zelena, for her involvement in Robin's death.  Sure, she had a part in it, but it isn't anywhere close to the shit you've done in the past, Regina!  But I guess since you made a few sad faces and convinced yourself that it was all the fault of your Evil Queen side, it is fine to not give Zelena a chance.  Fucking hell, show.  I can't believe you are making me feel bad for Zelena of all people.

Meanwhile, there is no genie in the bottle, so Aladdin makes himself a genie.  Sure.... whatever.  They are really wasting these characters.  At least Karen David is still drop dead gorgeous, but this seems to be another case of them squandering a perfect casting choice.

I sure hope Blue Fairy didn't have any actual plans or need to stay in Storybrooke, since Belle basically was like "Hey, go hide the baby from Rumple!", without any kind of discussion early on.  Way to spring that on someone, Belle!

Emma now finds the sword that will supposedly kill her.  I'm going to guess they won't be able to stop this vision simply by melting the sword or something, huh?

Preview's for next week's winter finale aren't looking promising.  Feels like barely anything has happened in these nine episodes.  And I was hoping for there to be more of the other baddies like Jafar or Hyde (RIP, you campy and hilarious man), but instead it's just been, I don't know, a bunch of EQ and Rumple trying to get revenge and whatnot, while the heroes just mope around.  Get it together, show!

[Camera One]

28 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I sure hope Blue Fairy didn't have any actual plans or need to stay in Storybrooke, since Belle basically was like "Hey, go hide the baby from Rumple!", without any kind of discussion early on.  Way to spring that on someone, Belle!

That is so true.  So she does turn into Fairy Form in Storybrooke, eh?  Since Blue hates the Dark One so much, would she really take care of the Dark One's spawn or "accidentally" drop him into the river?  Is she expected to carry that heavy "Her Handsome Hero" book with her?  

[Camera One]

Regina said to The Evil Queen: "Your heart has a hole in it, just like mine did when I first came to Storybrooke".  Is she speaking metaphorically, or what?  Since don't they share a heart?  

Edited November 28, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Regina said to The Evil Queen: "Your heart has a hole in it, just like mine did when I first came to Storybrooke".  Is she speaking metaphorically, or what?  Since don't they share a heart?  

 

It also makes things confusing because Regina is referring to Mayor Regina who murdered Graham as herself—not as the Evil Queen—but the writers and the other characters on the show always seem to imply that Season 1 Regina was an Evil Queen version of current Regina. Can we be done with this stupid plot already? It shouldn't take 10 episodes for Regina and everyone to realize they're the same. 

I surprisingly enjoyed this episode. It wasn't amazing writing or anything, but I've actually come around to really enjoying Belle's character this season, so having an episode focused on her was a breath of fresh air compared to all the Evil Queen camp and pointless plots we've gotten all season. The main annoying thing about this episode is that it seems out of place compared to the rest of the season. 

[Writing Wrongs]

So Belle knew all along that Rumple's mom was the Black Fairy and it has never come up before? I hate flashbacks.

I'm still confused about Gideon. Is he really Morpheus? How does he keep pulling her into dreamland? 

[maryle]

Zelena is a interesting character and I always saw her as damaged by the life she had and believable in her representation of a unbalanced person looking for something or someone to love or at least to call her own.

And she don't pretend otherwise unlike Regina who like to reference herself as hero.   Zelena is more real to me but here she is use to create conflict between Rumple, EQ and Regina, EQ.

If Regina can use her heart for stopping the EQ why not use it when she was Threatening Snow.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gold and Regina are the worst. This week, Gold told Belle, "I would never hurt you." Apparently putting a golden handcuff on her, basically  keeping her prisoner, putting a sleeping curse on her, and taking away their child don't count as hurting her. Then we have Regina, who is supposedly the good half of the R/EQ split, continuing to blame Zelena for Robin's death. Regina and Gold are both so emotionally stunted which is why they are the very people who shouldn't have magic or power because they act like children, constantly blaming others and throwing temper tantrums. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions and they lash out at anyone who crosses their path or gets in the way of what they want. They're tyrants acting like spoiled brats.

On the plus side, HG Wells!

I said this earlier in the season but Emma's storyline is giving me Buffy vibes. She's the hero who keeps fighting to protect others and knows she is going to die. And now she has a sword!

[Mari]

17 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I said this earlier in the season but Emma's storyline is giving me Buffy vibes. She's the hero who keeps fighting to protect others and knows she is going to die. And now she has a sword!

There's also the blonde hair, the dark-haired foil, as well as the nearly-obsessive love interest with the unnaturally long life span and an iconic leather jacket.  (As well as the tendency to blame herself for things that are not her fault.)

[Curio]

40 minutes ago, maryle said:

If Regina can use her heart for stopping the EQ why not use it when she was Threatening Snow.

 

Or, like, the very first second the Evil Queen stepped into town. Also, how did Regina squeezing her heart convince the Evil Queen she was serious about killing herself? There's no way Regina actually would have gone through with it, and the Evil Queen should have called her own bluff. 

9 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

We're all aspiring screenwriters and we want to know how to not write a TV show.

 

This is actually spot on.

[TheGreenKnight]

I liked this episode. I was entertained even though it was largely a Rumbelle episode--now that's a mighty feat. The first good scene to come out of Golden Queen, too, with TEQ screwing over Rumpel, who I can't stand.

The only bum note was Regina being a hypocrite with Zelena again. Takes me back to 5A. I wasn't really surprised Zelena was weaker than TEQ. The reason Regina defeated Zelena in 3A light magic, and once her necklace charm/whatever was taken away Zelena was even less powerful than Regina from there. So I can believe she's weaker than TEQ.

[Chaos Theory]

9 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I liked this episode. I was entertained even though it was largely a Rumbelle episode--now that's a mighty feat. The first good scene to come out of Golden Queen, too, with TEQ screwing over Rumpel, who I can't stand.

The only bum note was Regina being a hypocrite with Zelena again. Takes me back to 5A. I wasn't really surprised Zelena was weaker than TEQ. The reason Regina defeated Zelena in 3A light magic, and once her necklace charm/whatever was taken away Zelena was even less powerful than Regina from there. So I can believe she's weaker than TEQ.

 I am not sure where if anywhere the show is going with the Regina and Zelena thing.  Yes she was being a hypocrite (and this is coming from someone who is a fan of the character) but she has made some steps forward which Rumple has never been able to do.  He is still fighting the same battles and getting the same results.  Regina is making progress.  She is able to see what a hero is and should do as it relates to her universe and she isn't chasing Zelena through Storybrooke killing everyone who gets in her way but she isn't quite able to forgive her either.  She's not quite there but it is progress.

[KateJones]

2 hours ago, Mari said:

There's also the blonde hair, the dark-haired foil, as well as the nearly-obsessive love interest with the unnaturally long life span and an iconic leather jacket.  (As well as the tendency to blame herself for things that are not her fault.)

And the running through with sword of love interest who was very very bad but became good again just a few mins too late and had to be run through and sent to a hell dimension. 

Thus my very real concern that she's actually going to die and we're going to get a crushing scene of Killian sobbing over her body a la Spike at the bottom of the tower. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by KateJones

[Rumsy4]

23 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

So I can believe she's weaker than TEQ.

But she didn't even try! It was just like the scene in Heartless where Regina just stood there as EQ stole the sapling and crushed it. It's ridiculous and unbelievable.

[darkestboy]

Not too bad an episode but Rumple's mother being the Black Fairy, while interesting didn't add anything really new into the mix.

Belle's speedy pregnancy and sending her baby into hiding I think we saw all coming. I feel bad for Belle but less so for Rumple.

And the Rumple/Evil Queen thing came to a fortunate end. I can't wait for next week to be done with Evil Queen now.

Regina was a total hypocrite over Zelena to be honest.

Aladdin is now a genie? Ugh. I'm hoping him and Jasmine have better stuff in the second half of the season.

It's about time we find out who is about to kill Emma properly now, 7/10

[RadioGirl27]

Like the rest of the season this episode was really disjointed, a lot of things were happening but any of them made sense. The Aladdin, Jasmine, Snow scenes were so pointless. And the flashback was so unnecessary, even if I like the actress playing the Black Fairy. And the more backstory we get on Rumbelle, the more fucked up it is that Belle falled in love with Rumple. Even the CS scenes felt dim. But, at least, the were sharing some screentime. 

Oh, and Regina is the biggest hypocrite ever (I'm #TeamZelena all the way)

Edited November 28, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[Kktjones]

While I enjoyed the conversation between Emma & Hook at the end, I found it extremely glaring that Emma had just witnessed Belle giving away her baby and she didn't have any type of reaction to that. This is another example of the characters being 100% driven by the plot. The conversation was necessary to show that Emma really does want to continue to be the savior (so that next week the EQ can use her previous doubts against her). But what should have followed up that entire experience with Belle was both some sad feelings about when she gave Henry away and potentially some insight into what her parents went through when they sent her away for her own protection. But neither of those things relate to the plot, so they were completely ignored.

Oh well, I'll just sit here and be happy that at least I got to see Emma & Hook talk to each other since they are being separated once again next week...

[Sarah D. Bunting]

ICYMI, here's Previously.TV's post on the episode!

 

[kili]

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I have a new Crack theory/wish:  I want the Black Fairy to be Killian's mother too.  Let's really twist the family tree.

Well, the Black Fairy would definitely have a type then - shiftless men willing to sell out their children.

Maybe part of the reason Pan was stealing children to try to win back his girlfriend?

[asabovesobelow]

I love Regina, love her, but man. What.The.Fuck. was that conversation with Zelena. After everything that she's been through, and everything she's done, she can't forgive Zelena for that? The whole speech about being a hero and defending her "friends" made my skin crawl. I am usually an unabashed Regina apologist, but with this one, I got nothing. She needs to hightail it back to Zelena's house and tell her she had some sort of episode that made her a hypocritical DB. And then hardcore apologize. 

[iMonrey]

Can we agree the show has officially run out of things to do with both Evil Queen and Rumple? They have relied so heavily on the camp and the edge that Robert Carlyle and Lana Parrilla bring to the show but it feels like a seesaw. Up and down, never getting anywhere.

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Have they ever explained why he was the cowardly lion for so long? Was it the old ladies who raised him?

The backstory for Rumple just keeps getting more convoluted - further evidence they just don't know what to do with him anymore. He was at one time a humble peasant and a coward with a wife who resented him. He was bullied by all the townspeople so he became The Dark One to exact his revenge. OK, that was fine. But now we learn his mother was the Black Fairy? Huh? So he was half fairy at birth? Shouldn't he have had some kind of powers himself, even before he became the Dark One?

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I just can't take anymore of these bad people whining about their shitty childhood when we have someone like Emma who for so long had it just the same and yet still ended up being a good person. So miss me with that "woe is me" act

The writers just don't seem to understand what their audience really thinks, unless they're relying on a very small subset who keeps telling them they "root" for Rumple and the Evil Queen. They're just too enamored of these characters to see the folly in the idea they could ever be "redeemed." You can't be "redeemed" from mass murders and that's all there is to it. Even by taking the literal step of separating Regina from the Evil Queen you cannot redeem her. She's still the same person who made all those choices and caused all those deaths. 

If they don't do something about these characters the show will never stop going around in circles.

Edited November 28, 2016 by iMonrey

[KingOfHearts]

As much as I abhor Regina now, I don't hold the same hatred for the Evil Queen. EQ is more of a disappointment than an offensive slap in the face. One of the things that irritates me the most about Regina is that she sits on dishonest hypocrisy. EQ is basically Regina without the obsessive need to look like a hero or good person. You take off the self-righteousness, and they're basically the same. EQ does more evil things because she doesn't care what others think. She does whatever the heck she wants, usually out of boredom. I don't respect her as a villain any more because her schemes have gotten to be copy-and-paste, but I can tolerate her much more than her "better" half.

It's a joy to watch her screw with Rumple. It really is. I've always liked that power struggle.

Edited November 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

With this show, you never can tell what the writers are trying to say, since they're all over the map. Are we supposed to think that Regina was right to say what she did about Zelena, that Zelena really was at fault and Regina -- even the "good" part of her with the darkness removed -- is right to blame her, and the situation is totally different from with Snow, where she was wrong (maybe -- it's never been entirely clear on where the show stands on that because the writers call Regina a victim and have Snow groveling to her and talking about what a brat she was. And anyway, the situations are almost exactly the same)? In that case, the morality of this show is even more screwy than we thought it was and Regina is the biggest Mary Sue who ever Mary Sued. Or are we supposed to think that Regina is wrong and is being a hypocrite for proclaiming her own redemption and boasting about being a different person when she's being exactly the same way she was when she was being evil? In that case, her so-called redemption is even more hollow than it seemed, she hasn't changed, she probably does still hold a grudge against Snow, and then that makes the other heroes look like idiots for busting themselves to help Regina find her happy ending, giving her pep talks, and otherwise propping her up when she hadn't actually changed. And that then makes 3B look really dumb, if she was able to give a True Love Kiss and perform powerful light magic without a heart and while still holding such a grudge against Snow (and while keeping Sidney imprisoned). Either way, the writing is terrible. I'm afraid it's going to be the first option, and we'll never hear of the moment again and it will have no impact on the character or her relationships with the others.

I'm also still confused about what Rumple's trying to do with the baby and the Shears of Destiny. It's not fate or destiny for Gideon/Damien to hate him. It's just the fetus being smarter than most of the characters on this show by being able to look, via his mother's memories, at how his father has behaved and decide that he wants no part of it. I don't think "Morpheus" was the child's future self. It was a projection of the fetus's consciousness. The child may or may not have consciously remembered any of it once he was born, though possibly might not have taken well to his father in the way that babies just sometimes don't take well to some people, and if Rumple actually acted like a decent person, he wouldn't grow up to hate him. A spell to wipe the memories would probably do the trick. I'm not sure what cutting the destiny is going to do if Rumple keeps acting like an ass. It may prevent that particular future (that he didn't see, but whatever), but that doesn't mean that a new one won't form based on him reacting to Rumple's actions. In a room full of professional writers, did no one play devil's advocate and point out the logic flaws here?

[tennisgurl]

15 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I know right! Every time Regina calls herself a Hero, I roll my eyes. In fact, when most any character calls them themselves a hero, I roll my eyes, its just that Regina is the one most likely to do it, and is the last person to have earned the title. I know that calling people heroes or villains is part of the genre, but, in the context of a more "real world" feel, it just sounds so stupid and presumptuous. Like you said, real world heroes, people who have risked their lives to save others, never run around calling themselves heroes. The only people who call themselves  heroes are usually being ironic, or they're huge assholes, and the world rightly mocks them for it. Regina might be a good guy now, but I would hardly put her in the HERO category quite yet. Especially when she cant see fit to forgive Zelena for something that wasn't even really her fault (raping Robin really was her fault, but its clear no one cares about that), while everyone ever has forgiven her for all the miserable awful stuff she has done. I dont even like Zelena, and even I think thats messed up. 

As for the rest of the episode? Rumple has a real mess of a family, and it does make me question a few things. How did a fairy hook up with a loser like Rumples dad? Still, this show is damn lucky to have Robert in this role. He actually succeed in making Rumple a decently interesting character, while the writing just makes him a whiny asshole, instead of a complex villain with a desire to do good, but has such strong character flaws that he cant overcome them. 

All Evil Queen really has to do to screw with the good guys is pop in their living room, and say something like "Hey Emma! Remember that sheriff guy you had that thing for who died tragically? Yeah, Regina raped him for years and murdered him when he got too close to you! And she gas lighted Henry for years and made him feel crazy! Oh, and Snow? Regina also wrote WHORE on your car like a 15 year old mean girl. Tootles"! 

[KingOfHearts]

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But what should have followed up that entire experience with Belle was both some sad feelings about when she gave Henry away and potentially some insight into what her parents went through when they sent her away for her own protection. But neither of those things relate to the plot, so they were completely ignored.

It would have been nice to see Emma talk to Belle about how she gave up Henry to give him his "best chance". (It's overused, but still relevant.) Belle could have gotten the idea from Fetus!Gideon and later convinced of it by Emma or even Snow.

Is it me or does Gideon seem shady? Something about him seems pretentious.

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All Evil Queen really has to do to screw with the good guys is pop in their living room, and say something like "Hey Emma! Remember that sheriff guy you had that thing for who died tragically? Yeah, Regina raped him for years and murdered him when he got too close to you! And she gas lighted Henry for years and made him feel crazy! Oh, and Snow? Regina also wrote WHORE on your car like a 15 year old mean girl. Tootles"! 

This. There's no reason the Evil Queen should not have given a crap about Graham. Since S2, I think the only mention of Graham was in 4A with Emma's list of boyfriends she lost.

[Anakerie]

I think Morpheus is shady too.  See, I don't think he's actually Gideon. My theory is that he's some lackey of the Black Fairy, or maybe the Fairy herself, manipulating Belle so she can get her hands on the real Gideon. Why she'd want her grandchild when she never wanted her kid is beyond me, but who knows? No one on this damn show acknowledges the existence of logic anyway.  

[Sarcastica]

The Regina/Zelena convo actually made me feel bad for Zelena. Good lord. 

So Rumple's mama is the Black Fairy. Boo Hoo cupcake. He is still awful. 

Jasmine/Alladin...I just don't care.

I was so bored I just don't have much to say. Emma/Killian scenes were nice. Nice to see them there for Belle. The Blue Fairy needs a fashion make-over. 

I am pretty much watching out of habit nowadays. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

I realize I am likely thinking about this far more than the writers, but Gideon continued to warm Belle about Rumple even though the EQ spiked the tea.  So was Gideon fooled too?  I assumed he has some sort of special knowledge of what is happening around him based on the hints he keeps giving Belle but he did not stop Belle - he even encouraged her - to give him away.  Does he have some long term plan and he is playing his mother?  

Regina needs to be made to repeat it. is. not. all. about. me.  for the rest of her days.  I really think we are supposed to feel bad for Regina despite her continued complete lack of self-awareness and her inability to understand that others have suffered too.  Actually at this point I assume whatever I feel for the characters is the exact opposite of what the show thinks I will feel.  Zelena's backstory is far more tragic and compelling and at least helps me understand her poor life choices (unlike Regina's).  And at this point if she chooses to go after Regina I will cheer her on even knowing the show will never let her win.  Both Regina and the EQ are a waste of space and if I have to endure them I would prefer they re-merge or whatever so there is (hopefully) less of them to fast forward.

I am still waiting for someone (really anyone but Regina - or at this point Snow) to tell Emma that her worth is not tied to being the Savior.  She and Hook should just take the JR and hit the high seas and never look back at this point.  And so glad Snow is using her time helping Jasmine and grading papers - how about working on a way to wake your husband or save your daughter?  Run Emma, Run.

[kili]

What is with the title of this episode? A changeling is a fairy child left in place of a real child. Often, the changeling was demanding and kind of evil. Are we to believe that Pan really isn't Rumple's dad? That Pan's real child was swapped out? He did whine about how Rumple was sucking the life out of him. Am I going to have to feel sorry for Pan now?

I just can't with Regina not forgiving Zelena. Zelena is not responsible for Robin's death and Regina told Zelena to make a go of it with Hades. Hades fooled everybody.  I'm totally on Team Zelena. I hope she can continue to be friends with Belle because she needs a friend and reacts positively when treated like a human being. Unlike some others I could mention.

Somebody needs to stage an intervention with Alladin. He needs to understand that sacrificing himself over and over again to get Jasmine what she wants is never going to work out for him. Now he's a slave of the lamp. That's going to work out well.

And Snow seems to have suffered a head injury. As far as she knows, the genie that her father freed went on to kill her father. Then, he went on to spy for the Evil Queen. On what planet does she decide that her father's history with genies is a good reason to let a genie out of a lamp? Good heavens. It's a good thing that Regina is the leader and not her. "The Soviets tried that experiment in Chernobyl, so we should totally try it as well." "We should be like the Trojans and accept all gifts unquestioningly." "The Mad Hatter uses mercury in his hats. Let's put it in babyfood!"

[Curio]

When Regina scoffed that she would never kill her own flesh and blood for Rumple...didn't she already do that with Henry Sr.? 

It's really sad that the only people who bothered to show up and help Belle during her crisis/pregnancy was Emma—the woman who barely talks to her—and Hook—the man who was once her nemesis and shot her in the back. Well, and Blue. Like, these are Belle's "best friends" in Storybrooke. Poor, Belle. I did like the moment where Killian handed the book to Belle, but once again, a later bonding moment between them was thrown to Offscreenville because, apparently, Killian went to check up on Belle to see how she was doing before he entered the diner at the end of the episode. So the writers deprived us of seeing Hook and Belle rooming together on the Jolly Roger earlier this season, and now they won't give them a conversation after her baby's birth on screen. Come on, this is called character development. Show, don't tell.

3 hours ago, Kktjones said:

While I enjoyed the conversation between Emma & Hook at the end, I found it extremely glaring that Emma had just witnessed Belle giving away her baby and she didn't have any type of reaction to that. This is another example of the characters being 100% driven by the plot. The conversation was necessary to show that Emma really does want to continue to be the savior (so that next week the EQ can use her previous doubts against her). But what should have followed up that entire experience with Belle was both some sad feelings about when she gave Henry away and potentially some insight into what her parents went through when they sent her away for her own protection. 

 

Yes! I was thinking the exact same thing. When Emma was about to confess to Hook, I kept waiting for her to compare what Belle went through to what she went through and what her parents must have went through, but instead she went off on a slightly unrelated tangent about her duty as Savior. I...didn't really get the connection there.

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, Curio said:

I...didn't really get the connection there.

Because there is none. It's just used as a random segway to the savior-visions of doom. ugh...

[tri4335]

So now that we know that Henry is 1/4 fairy, if we all stop believing in him, would he lose his wings and die?  And am I the only one wanting to see Rumple sprout a pair of wings and flutter about?

[iMonrey]

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Still, this show is damn lucky to have Robert in this role. He actually succeed in making Rumple a decently interesting character, while the writing just makes him a whiny asshole, instead of a complex villain with a desire to do good, but has such strong character flaws that he cant overcome them. 

That sort of speaks to my point that the show has overly relied on Robert Carlyle and Lana Parilla to make lemonade out of lemons. But after six seasons I no longer find either character interesting or compelling  because they never go anywhere. 

The hard truth is that in any fairy tale the villain must eventually be vanquished, and the show does not have the guts to get rid of either character because they are (or, were) popular and iconic. But by keeping them around and trying to keep them somehow viable the show has become stale and increasingly frustrating in its attempts to rationalize them and redeem them.

[Mari]

2 hours ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Regina needs to be made to repeat it. is. not. all. about. me.  for the rest of her days.  I really think we are supposed to feel bad for Regina despite her continued complete lack of self-awareness and her inability to understand that others have suffered too.  Actually at this point I assume whatever I feel for the characters is the exact opposite of what the show thinks I will feel.  

Well, yes.

Except, it is all about Regina.  

"There's just so many people that it's like, it's sometimes hard to do that story and sacrifice Regina's story. That's just showbiz." —Edward Kitsis

And, me, too.  I assume whatever I feel for the characters is not what they're expecting or planning.

[KingOfHearts]

I was reading an article about what makes someone entitled or a narcissist. Demanding forgiveness for yourself but not giving it to others was one of the key signs you had a superiority complex.

This is how the writers wanted us to react to this episode:
"Wait... Rumple didn't accelerate Belle's pregnancy? Awww! He really is a human!"
"OMG! Rumple's mom is the Black Fairy?! I am totally floored! That explains everything!"
"Aw, Zelena and Regina still have issues. Regina is right to be angry over Robin, but I hope they resolve their differences some day!"
"Poor Belle. I hope she and Rumple can get back together so they can happily parent Gideon."
"OMG! Emma found the sword from her vision in Gold's shop! What could it mean?!?!?!"

I'm sad they never mentioned Jack and Jill by name. That makes them just random peasants in the canon.

For as many pregnancies as there are on this show, the writers don't seem to care about them very much. They have to accelerate each one, then after that, the babies are shoved off to the side. Babies are only there to create temporary drama. Lost took much more advantage of Aaron over the course of its entire run. He was just a plot device, but a well-utilized one. Claire's birth > Belle's.

Belle's dreamscape was really dumb. "The Manual on Defeating the Dark One"? "Follow the Strand"? Really? Of all the crazy avenues you could go with inside the mind, the writers chose the most phoned-in route possible. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Randomosity]

20 hours ago, maraleia said:

I just finished watching this and I literally cannot remember what happened. This is the sign that I should stop watching. Again why are most of us here still watching this show?

Because Killian is pretty?

7 hours ago, Kktjones said:

But what should have followed up that entire experience with Belle was both some sad feelings about when she gave Henry away and potentially some insight into what her parents went through when they sent her away for her own protection.

I was waiting for this. ...and it never came. I mean, seriously. 'Give him his best chance' and not have any reference to both Emma and Henry being given up for the exact same reasons? Wtf...

[maraleia]

Just now, Randomosity said:

Because Killian is pretty?

I was waiting for this. ...and it never came. I mean, seriously. 'Give him his best chance' and not have any reference to both Emma and Henry being given up for the exact same reasons? Wtf...

For me it's Lana Parrilla because I'm a lesbian. Maybe that's why I keep watching.