S01.E06: The Adversary

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Lutz is charmed by Maeve; Elsie discovers evidence that could point to sabotage; the Man in Black and Teddy clash with a garrison.

[phoenyx]

The preview looks great :-)...

[phoenyx]

Interesting article on the preview video in my last post:

‘Westworld’ episode 6 preview: ‘The Adversary’ continues Man in Black’s search for the maze

They name what they consider to be the most likely contenders for the person who Ford is talking to when he asks said person if they really thought they could take the park away from him. I just realized something while watching the preview again- Ford is talking in the examination room. I think this strongly suggests that the person he's talking to is an android. Dolores was my top pick in the past, but now I'm wondering if Maeve or even Clementine might actually be in the chair. Why? Because they have actually interacted with employees in the preview (actually Maeve already did so at the end of Episode 5) in ways that make it clear that they have gone way "off script". Clementine goes so far as to assault one of the employees.

Edited November 5, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

Here's another article review of the Episode 6 preview from The Independent, with some details that I missed and weren't mentioned in the previous article from goldderby...

Westworld season 1 episode 6 trailer: The Hosts finally work out that they’re robots

Edited November 5, 2016 by phoenyx

[okerry]

Teddy says, “the maze itself is the sum of a man’s life… The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs on to, it’s an old native myth.” So every maze will be different for each person?

Reminds me very much of the chains created in life as described in Dickens' *A Christmas Carol.*

[dgpolo]

The Adversary is one translation of Satan.

[Gobi]

TMIB is looking for a worthy adversary, and wondered if it would be Wyatt. Maybe we'll find out.

[ennui]

5 hours ago, okerry said:

Teddy says, “the maze itself is the sum of a man’s life… The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs on to, it’s an old native myth.” So every maze will be different for each person?

Reminds me very much of the chains created in life as described in Dickens' *A Christmas Carol.*

The Man in the Maze is a Native American creation myth. There are lots and lots of websites about it. Briefly, according to O'odham oral history, the labyrinth design depicts experiences and choices individuals make in the journey through life. In the middle of the "maze," a person finds their dreams and goals.

I hope we see more Hector.

Edited November 5, 2016 by ennui
Phixed.

[phoenyx]

11 minutes ago, ennui said:

The Man in the Maze is a Native American creation myth. There are lots and lots of websites about it. Briefly, according to O'odham oral history, the labyrinth design depicts experiences and choices individuals make in the journey through life. In the middle of the "maze," a person finds their dreams and goals.

I hope we see more Hector, because Dolores is beginning to bore me.

I was liking your post and then I saw the last bit- gah! Blasphemy :-p. I'm in love with Dolores -.- That being said, Hector is pretty cool too and he's definitely in the next episode- in fact, he's in the examination room ;-). 

[formerlyfreedom]

I know I keep saying this, but DAMN. Thandie Newton is BRINGING it as Maeve. Everyone is really good on this show, but she has me absolutely mesmerized.

[Primetimer]

It's good to be a fearless android.

View the full article

[AimingforYoko]

I missed Evan Rachel Wood this week, but Thandie Newton more than made up for it. Shit gets real now.

Elsie, Elsie, Elsie. You never go alone when trying to uncover nefarious plots. Sizemore could've told you that.

[SeanC]

Couldn't those tech guys have just made Maeve stupid instead?  Anyway, Newton is awesome in this part (in the debate over AI intelligence, it's interesting to see a person essentially alter their own personality made-to-order).

When Bernard declined Elsie's initial call to go in and speak with Theresa about the problem, I was momentarily expecting her to take him out.  Though it turns out it was Elsie who fell victim.

I read somewhere that Tessa Thompson was supposed to be appearing in this show, but it had slipped my mind, so I was surprised to see her pop up.

[Gobi]

So, does anyone  here know Chinese? I'd love to know what Theresa's phone caller said.

[dgpolo]

Was that supposed to be Yul Brynner in that office on B82?

[Broderbits]

I liked the reference to the original Westworld movie: when Jeffrey Wright went down into the basement there was an older model android leaning against the wall. It was blurred but you could see it was Yul Brynner's gunslinger.

[gwhh]

What happens when you turn the physical ability up to level 20?

[benteen]

Thandie Newton is definitely killing in this role.  I'm really enjoying her storyline.

Nice to see Tessa Thompson finally arrive.

Nice twist with Teddy. 

Ford crafting his robot family the way he remembered it growing up is truly ****ed up.

[dgpolo]

Also, definitely 'old logo' on the old system.

[gatopretoNYC]

8 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

Was that supposed to be Yul Brynner in that office on B82?

 

7 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

I liked the reference to the original Westworld movie: when Jeffrey Wright went down into the basement there was an older model android leaning against the wall. It was blurred but you could see it was Yul Brynner's gunslinger.

Yes! That was AWESOME!!

[bmoore4026]

So the show takes place within the movie's continuity?  Neat!

Once again, Thandie Newton is this episode's MVP.  I hope she gets an Emmy nomination because she was bringing her A game this episode.  Those eyes damn near moved me tears several times.

And Teddy has finally found his edge.  Good for him.

Elsie never saw a horror movie in her short life, did she?  If you're going to investigate a spooky rundown theater, you have to bring a stoner with a goatee and a talking Great Dane.  Everyone knows this.

And Dr. Ford totally killed the real greyhound when he was little, didn't he?

[locomoco]

while Bernard was going down tothe basement and passed by the Gunslinger, did you notice the fluttering gunslinger music/sound effect from the movie as well? I heard the audio cue before seeing the physical model in the background.

Edited November 7, 2016 by locomoco

[fidorulz]

Look who made an appearance tonight all the way from 1973. Curious if Easter egg or movie is partially canon and considered part of the event they mention in the past.

Edited November 7, 2016 by fidorulz

[okerry]

awww, I was just going to post the same pic lol! 

[Willowy]

I'm hearting every single one of y'all's Gunslinger pics, because YES! That's just fucking golden.

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, gwhh said:

What happens when you turn the physical ability up to level 20?

You get Michael  Phelps?

[DarkRaichu]

In case anyone missed Bernard's pad, Dolores was one of the older model designed by Arnold.  

Well, the voices can only be heard by older model? Was the host that killed other hosts for revenge while drinking milk an older model too or was it a retcon?

So Theodore Flood was one of Arnold's in the past live.  I was more interested in following Teddy's backstory than the oodles of dumb people in this episode :P 

So many dumb people in the episode :P  What was Felix motivation for bringing Meave upstairs?  
And nobody said boo about it?  C'mon, Felix was a low level employee working downstairs, he did NOT even change his butcher garb and NOBODY on design stopped and questioned him??
Lol and the 2 dum dums just went along with making the host smarter?  The obvious choice would have been to make Meave dumber and then report it to QA, no?

Downstairs PC used old Westworld logo and the screen that Meave saw used the new one.  But I am not going to say anything about the timeline theories ;) ;) ;)

So Ford is a sentimental dude afterall

Sizemore peed all over the Control and nobody cracked joke about his size or the lack thereof? :D :D :D

I personally prefer the 1st generation bots, just like MiB and Ford :P  At least with the old bots, the dum dums working downstairs would not mistake the bots for real humans :D

I bet it was Theresa who got Elsie.  The Chinese just told her to hurry up, so she had every reason to go to that abandon theater to amp up the chaos caused by the bots.

I have to admit I did not expect Delos representative to be someone other than MiB

[DarkRaichu]

Two more things:

I love the look on MiB's face when Teddy used the gatling gun to mow down the soldiers.  He was amused and amazed at the same time

I believe this was the 1st episode taken place entirely in the "present".  Teddy's memory does not count as a past because that was just a new narrative that Ford uploaded a few episodes ago (ETA: doh, forgot about ep 1)

Edited November 7, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[gatopretoNYC]

Does anyone know yet the music on the player piano this week? It's driving me crazy; I'm sure I know it, but I can't figure out what it is. 

[phoenyx]

PreviouslyTV:

"It's good to be a fearless android."

http://previously.tv/westworld/a-tour-through-westworlds-underbelly-gives-maeve-a-chance-to-shine/

Nice article :-)

Edited November 7, 2016 by phoenyx

[Quilt Fairy]

9 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Two more things:

I love the look on MiB's face when Teddy used the gatling gun to mow down the soldiers.  He was amused and amazed at the same time

I believe this was the 1st episode taken place entirely in the "present".  Teddy's memory does not count as a past because that was just a new narrative that Ford uploaded a few episodes ago (ETA: doh, forgot about ep 1)

No doubt after coming here for 30 years anything new is special for the MiB.  Also, Ford really laid it on pretty heavy with Teddy's new backstory. He went from vague regrets about past misdeeds to killing innocent women and children along with Wyatt. 

[numbnut]

17 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Downstairs PC used old Westworld logo and the screen that Meave saw used the new one.  But I am not going to say anything about the timeline theories ;) ;) ;)

Someone noted that the church steeple is intact in the background when William and Logan arrive at the top of ep 2. Dunno if that counts as anything.

I love Maeve more and more. Alas, she's only featured strongly in the even-numbered eps. I wish they didn't skip over the moment when she's told that she's a robot (she knew something was up but I'm sure she didn't expect it to be that). I'm surprised no one noticed when she threatened asshole guy with the scalpel for a full minute. I felt so bad for Bernard when Theresa dumped him. Not a fan of Elsie -- her character is too one-note CSI/Scooby-Doo-esque for me. I didn't really miss William and Dolores. Lots of info to process. I'll have questions after a second watch.

[okerry]

What an incredibly powerful and beautiful episode.

Maeve's walk through the upper world was fascinating, informative, and intensely moving. Just give Thandie Newton all the Emmys now, ok?

That cottage sequence: I did mention in the "What kind of park do you want to see?" thread about how there would be a tremendous demand for hosts that looked like lost loved ones. Didn't occur to me that Ford would be the one to do that!

So - the "father" in the cottage is Arnold? Or his host replica? From what both Ford and Bernard said, that would seem to be the case. The younger boy is Ford as a child. Don't know that we've seen the brother or the mother yet.

Wow. Just wow.

haaa, go Teddy! Give that host a Gatling gun every week!

And is Elsie still with us, or not?

"Are you fling a complaint, Mr. Sizemore?" lolol

[Quilt Fairy]

6 minutes ago, okerry said:

So - the "father" in the cottage is Arnold? Or his host replica? From what both Ford and Bernard said, that would seem to be the case. The younger boy is Ford as a child. Don't know that we've seen the brother or the mother yet.

The family is meant to be Ford's family, down to the greyhound that was mentioned last week. The other child looked like a girl to me but could be a boy with longer hair. Ford mentions giving his father some more realistic traits as time went on which you can see from his violent temper and drinking.

[Cigale]

54 minutes ago, gatopretoNYC said:

Does anyone know yet the music on the player piano this week? It's driving me crazy; I'm sure I know it, but I can't figure out what it is. 

The first one was Radiohead, “Motion Picture Soundtrack,”

 

My bad, Vaz is right...

Its Fake Plastic Trees by Radiohead

Edited November 7, 2016 by sisterspoon

[okerry]

Bernard immediately addressed the father host as "Arnold." Ford said that Arnold had made these particular hosts, and said Arnold felt the artist should be reflected in his work - which would seem to say that yes, the father host was made to look just like Arnold - who was therefore Ford's father - yes?

[Vaz]

Just now, gatopretoNYC said:

Does anyone know yet the music on the player piano this week? It's driving me crazy; I'm sure I know it, but I can't figure out what it is. 

Fake Plastic Trees by Radiohead

 

Maeve is quickly becoming my favorite character. Thandie is absolutely killing it.  

Good to see Teddy surviving for another episode. I can't wait for him to further go off script. 

Can't say I missed Dolores and William. 

[thuganomics85]

Episode 6, The Adversary!  Starring Thandie Newton's ass!  I swear, I think it had almost as much screen time as most of the other regulars did.  In all seriousness though, Thandie Newton is killing it and Maeve is really shooting up to the top of my favorite's list.  While I do wonder why didn't Felix and Sylvester just activate a shutdown switch or make her intelligence dumber, I'm loving the idea of Maeve using this to make herself a powerhouse and hopefully dominating the going back in Westworld, all while using these two fools to help her in the real world.  I really can't wait to see what she'll do no with maximum intelligence, because she was already pretty smart before.  Go Maeve!

Hey, Tessa Thompson!  Always good to see her.  I figured there was going to be more to the character besides someone for Sizemore to hit on, so her being an executive member of the board is an interesting idea.  I wonder what kind of impact she is going to have on the rest going forward.  Not surprised Sizemore turned out to be an annoying little drunk, once Ford crapped all over his story.

Man in Black and Teddy's adventures ended up being nuts.  Teddy has a quite a violent streak, I see.  You know it's bad when even MIB seems taken aback for a second.

So, it seems like Ford's grand plan involves using Arnold's old hosts to recreate one of his best memories as a child?  And now these "voices" are making Young Robot Ford (?) kill dogs?  Man, what in the hell did you do, Ford?!  Or is it Arnold?  I have no idea!

Elise does some digging and finds out that not only is Theresa apparently the leak, but the source is also the same place that is transmitting these voices the hosts keep hearing.  But now she's captured by some mysterious person, so I'm sure there is a lot more to this story.

First episode without any Dolorous, outside of that brief photo of her when Bernard was asking the computer to list all the original hosts.  

[okerry]

hate to say it, but I didn't miss Dolores at all - or William

[Quilt Fairy]

I sincerely hope they gave Thandie Newton some pasties or something to cover herself when they weren't actually showing her tits or ass. I hope she didn't have to do all those scenes entirely nude. (Yeah, I get that she's an actress, she's got to be comfortable with her body, her body is just a tool, yada yada yada, but I felt sorry for her.) At least she got to put her knickers on when Lutz walked her through the upper floors.

ETA: I figured that the host against the wall when Bernard was down in the lower levels was probably a shout-out to Yul Brenner just from the black cowboy hat, but I didn't catch that his hands are even in the same position on his gunbelt. 

ETA2: I don't mind colorblind casting, but once they cast an actor of Korean heritage in the role of Felix Lutz I wish they had changed his name to something more appropriate.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[numbnut]

53 minutes ago, okerry said:

So - the "father" in the cottage is Arnold? Or his host replica? From what both Ford and Bernard said, that would seem to be the case.

40 minutes ago, okerry said:

Bernard immediately addressed the father host as "Arnold." Ford said that Arnold had made these particular hosts, and said Arnold felt the artist should be reflected in his work - which would seem to say that yes, the father host was made to look just like Arnold - who was therefore Ford's father - yes?

24 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, it seems like Ford's grand plan involves using Arnold's old hosts to recreate one of his best memories as a child?  And now these "voices" are making Young Robot Ford (?) kill dogs?  Man, what in the hell did you do, Ford?!  Or is it Arnold?  I have no idea!

So Arnold's uploaded consciousness is now infecting Ford's robot family? Very curious why Ford's robot dad looks like "Arnold" (from the photo). It could mean that Ford partnered with his dad but he didn't mention that to Bernard. And why can't lawyers find any info on the father after his demise? I'm still leaning toward Arnold being AI or at least a robot (the MiB refers to him as a "man" but I'm not sure if they've actually met). If the maze explanation is true (about a man repeatedly dying) and Arnold created the maze, he can't be human.

Edited November 7, 2016 by numbnut

[Armchair Critic]

I knew Elsie was going to end up dead the minute Bernard didn't get to finish telling her to be careful.

[Lingo]

What a moving episode. How would you feel if you died and went to "heaven" and THAT is what you saw?!?!

It's hard to care about Dolores' slow road to consciousness (or whatever's going on with her) when Maeve is tearing up the fast track. It's like Dolores is playing through all 32 levels, while Maeve just took the Warp Tunnel to the end.

Oh, Elsie. You were supposed to be the smart one. I really hope you live through this.

The other child robot is Ford's brother Tommy. His name was mentioned by the Ford robot the first time we saw him. Ford also mentioned a brother. I never considered the possibility that Arnold might Ford's father, and I don't think that's the case. I think Bernard just took a guess when he found this old man living in the park. But then again, he's seen a picture of Arnold so he should know what he looks like, right?

It seems that shenanigans are afoot in this park that are escaping even Ford's notice, which surprised me. I thought he might be the saboteur but apparently not (never suspected Theresa). He seemed genuinely puzzled by the dog's death, and also seemed surprised to find the Maze symbol in Pariah. It was almost like he's not familiar with it.

Personally, the Maze symbol looks to me just like a representation of the brain, and so I've always figured that "getting to the center of the Maze" is just a metaphor for consciousness. Arnold wants his robots to achieve sentience, hence he's sending them into the Maze. That's why the girl robot tells the MIB that the Maze is not for him. Sometimes I think the MIB is not aware of this, so he's going to be terribly disappointed when he finds "the center" (I assume there's no literal maze). But on the other hand I remember that he told Lawrence that he intends to "free" the robots, so maybe he wants to help them gain consciousness too.

15 minutes ago, numbnut said:

So Arnold's uploaded consciousness is now infecting Ford's robot family? Very curious why Ford's robot dad looks like "Arnold" (from the photo). It could mean that Ford partnered with his dad but he didn't mention that to Bernard. And why can't lawyers find any info on the father after his demise? I'm still leaning toward Arnold being AI or at least a robot (the MiB refers to him as a "man" but I'm not sure if they've actually met). If the maze explanation is true (about a man repeatedly dying) and Arnold created the maze, he can't be human.

Here's my take: it's another metaphor. Arnold was repeatedly "dying" (living in agony) due to his memories of the "personal tragedy" in his life, not to mention the pressures of his job. The myth says he came to life one last time to vanquish his enemies, but in reality Arnold actually vanquished his enemies by killing himself.

[numbnut]

15 minutes ago, Lingo said:

36 minutes ago, numbnut said:

So Arnold's uploaded consciousness is now infecting Ford's robot family? Very curious why Ford's robot dad looks like "Arnold" (from the photo). It could mean that Ford partnered with his dad but he didn't mention that to Bernard. And why can't lawyers find any info on the father after his demise? I'm still leaning toward Arnold being AI or at least a robot (the MiB refers to him as a "man" but I'm not sure if they've actually met). If the maze explanation is true (about a man repeatedly dying) and Arnold created the maze, he can't be human.

Here's my take: it's another metaphor. Arnold was repeatedly "dying" (living in agony) due to his memories of the "personal tragedy" in his life, not to mention the pressures of his job. The myth says he came to life one last time to vanquish his enemies, but in reality Arnold actually vanquished his enemies by killing himself.

I'm not sure I understand (I'm slow). If he vanquished his enemies by dying, why would he come back one last time?

I think Arnold's instructions for the boy (kill the "killer" so it can't hurt anything anymore) means that he wants Ford dead, and the "personal tragedy" was all the killing of robots in the park. Did they say Arnold created 47 of the still active older robots? JJ Abrams strikes again.

Edited November 7, 2016 by numbnut

[DarkRaichu]

30 minutes ago, Lingo said:

He seemed genuinely puzzled by the dog's death, and also seemed surprised to find the Maze symbol in Pariah. It was almost like he's not familiar with it.

That was not Pariah.  That was Lawrence's village where MiB shot the guy through a wall with his special bullet.  You could even see a villager patching that wall in 1 of the scenes

1 hour ago, numbnut said:

her character is too one-note CSI/Scooby-Doo-esque for me

Velma? She was not a blonde like Daphne :P

[Lingo]

1 hour ago, numbnut said:

I'm not sure I understand (I'm slow). If he vanquished his enemies by dying, why would he come back one last time?

I'm not saying he came back one last time. I'm saying he killed himself to escape his enemies (which is how he "defeats" them). I admit I may be completely mistaken about this.

Unless you mean: if he killed himself, how is he causing the robot uprising right now? As for that, I have no idea other than delayed programming.

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

That was not Pariah.  That was Lawrence's village where MiB shot the guy through a wall with his special bullet.  You could even see a villager patching that wall in 1 of the scenes.

Yeah you're right. I know they're two different towns, but I keep calling Lawrence's hometown "Pariah" by mistake (I didn't catch its name).

[arc]

5 hours ago, gwhh said:

What happens when you turn the physical ability up to level 20?

Steph Curry's hand-eye coordination with JaVale McGee's athleticism and Jackie Chan's agility?

2 hours ago, okerry said:

Bernard immediately addressed the father host as "Arnold." Ford said that Arnold had made these particular hosts, and said Arnold felt the artist should be reflected in his work - which would seem to say that yes, the father host was made to look just like Arnold - who was therefore Ford's father - yes?

Oh man. The guy playing the father host sure looks like that picture of Arnold and young Ford. (or maybe I'm having one of my spells of early-onset face blindness again. edit: but on second thought, I don't think Arnold was Ford's father. Maybe similar faces. But Ford's father was an angry man, apparently, and also one who squashed Ford's ambitions. Arnold and Ford dreamed of creating an entire world.

To my knowledge, Lawrence's home village hasn't been named on the show, but the official site has a map and it's called "Las Mudas".

Edited November 7, 2016 by arc

[jeansheridan]

Regarding the techs with Maeve, I think Felix's curiosity got to him.  I am surprised Sylvester didn't rat her out.  Major plot hole.  

Elsie is kind of stupid / brave.  Bernard at least went during the day.

I was a bit bored.  Felt like a filler ep.

[Goatherd]

The building in Lawrence's town is painted with "Cantina Las Mudas," so that's a pretty good confirmation that that's the town name. :)

I'm fairly face-blind, but I looked at a freeze frame of "ghost dad" next to Ford's photo, and not only does it look like the same guy, but it looks like he's wearing exactly the same outfit. Eep!

My take on it is that the ghost family looks just like Ford's family, with one exception -- the dad. Ford tells us that Arnold built them as a gift, and also that Arnold said that "great artists always hid themselves in their work." So Arnold's way of doing that was to make Ford's father look like himself instead.

Anyway, that's my takeaway -- not that Arnold was actually Ford's father. Ford then changed the Ghost Dad's behavior and personality to better match his own father's, but left him looking like Arnold.

[derriere]

Absolutely awesome episode, but I'm honestly not thrilled with Maeve's upgrade. Root ruined Person of Interest for me and I have a horrible feeling Nolan's about to introduce another smug unstoppable magical ninja.