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LIVE CHAT: Election Night 2016 (11/8/2016)

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The third party voters are already starting with their smug "This wouldn't have happened with Bernie" shit. I am too sad and depressed to respond but I want to tell them to fuck off. THEY did this. THEY are responsible. Don't cast if off on the rest of us who tried to do the right thing and lost.

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3 minutes ago, jjj said:

The Obamas.  What an awful night for them.

The horrible thing is 1) he has to meet with Trump this week, he has to be their for his inauguration, he has to interact with the guy at presidential events...I think perhaps it was wrong of Obama to say, in Jimmy Kimmel's mean tweets a few weeks ago that, "at least I will have been a president."

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4 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

How sad and even sadder, Mike Pence would hand her a weapon. I left to get to sleep and couldn't sleep. Got back up to watch the news, bad idea. Now waiting for Hillary to concede this horrendous nightmarish election

I'm trying to stick it out for her. If she has to do this, I can surely suffer through it with her. 

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7 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, from the first black president to the KKK-endorsed candidate in eight years.

America is finally back!! Not! 

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1 minute ago, Keepitmoving said:

I'm trying to stick it out for her. If she has to do this, I can surely suffer through it with her. 

We all can..  Today is horrible, tomorrow will be horrible and days will be horrible but eventually it will get less horrible, then eventually when we figure out we'll survive because he will not be our President for four years, no way he'll survive it

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14 minutes ago, Spacecow said:

I'm just so struck by the contrast between tonight and 2008. I was ~12 years old and I watched Obama deliver his speech with my father, a black man, and I felt so hopeful about the future. We were all in our pajamas and we had a big bowl of popcorn. Sure I was just a kid, but seeing a man that looked like my dad as a president felt huge. My dad was quick to remind me that it wouldn't magically end racism but damn it still felt like a victory. And then there's tonight. I had a very solemn phone call with my dad while watching MSNBC in tears. I could tell he was choking up too, and he never chokes up. I feel a heaviness in my bones that I've never felt before in my life. This isn't the historic night that I wanted, but it's still historic for all the wrong reasons. How fucked is it that I have to fear for my father's safety, and the safety of every black man in this country? Trump wants Guiliani in his cabinet. Stop and Frisk could be national policy. I'm from Phoenix and I'm ashamed in advance for everything that the latino population there will experience. I'm rambling, I know, but I'm all alone here in my apartment and I need an anonymous outlet away from the Bernie Bros and Trump supporters that dominate my social media outlets. I'm so, so afraid. 

it's ok. we're here.

i am so afraid too.

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I can't begin to imagine how Hillary must be feeling.  After 2008, to come back again only to lose to someone like Trump must be the ultimate stake in the heart.

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I am wondering how did the Trump surrogates know about this hidden Donald Trump vote..They have been saying this for months now..They were pretty smug about it..  What did they know, that we didn't....

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I don't think that one night of trauma here is going to help anyone and I would suggest to petition the management of PTV to add a new forum, sort of a postmortem forum for people to be able to come and express their anger, anxiety and possibly help others.

What say you?

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6 minutes ago, nowandlater said:

The horrible thing is 1) he has to meet with Trump this week, he has to be their for his inauguration, he has to interact with the guy at presidential events...I think perhaps it was wrong of Obama to say, in Jimmy Kimmel's mean tweets a few weeks ago that, "at least I will have been a president."

He's going to be in a club with both Bushes, Bill Clinton, Obama, and Jimmy Carter. Wow. What did Jimmy Carter do to deserve this? 

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I am late to this thread, but tonight's results so far will damage the credibility of pollsters, & the media. They did not pay attention to what happened in the UK in June 2016 referendum. It's unbelievable that almost all  the exit polls were wrong.

I hope that there is some internal reviews done as to what issues were covered during the campaign.

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I don't think that one night of trauma here is going to help anyone and I would suggest to petition the management of PTV to add a new forum, sort of a postmortem forum for people to be able to come and express their anger, anxiety and possibly help others.

What say you?

Edited by j5cochran
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6 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I can't begin to imagine how Hillary must be feeling.  After 2008, to come back again only to lose to someone like Trump must be the ultimate stake in the heart.

She's tough, made of steel. But it does get exhausting watching her get knocked down and humiliated over the years. But again, her resilience is....admirable is not strong enough of a word.

Goodnight everyone, I guess I don't have to wait up anymore, they're still counting votes.

She'll be ready tomorrow. Which unfortunately means I'll have to listen to these annoying pundits, but I am determined to support her right through to the bitter end. So when she speaks I want to see her and I'm sure I'll cry then.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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2 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

I don't think that one night of trauma here is going to help anyone and I would suggest to petition the management of PTV to add a new forum, sort of a postmortem forum for people to be able to come and express their anger, anxiety and possibly help others.

What say you?

Yes, please! Please!

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8 minutes ago, nowandlater said:

The horrible thing is 1) he has to meet with Trump this week, he has to be their for his inauguration, he has to interact with the guy at presidential events...I think perhaps it was wrong of Obama to say, in Jimmy Kimmel's mean tweets a few weeks ago that, "at least I will have been a president."

Obama handing over power to Trump is a bigger shock than Clinton handing over power to George W Bush.

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7 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

The third party voters are already starting with their smug "This wouldn't have happened with Bernie" shit. I am too sad and depressed to respond but I want to tell them to fuck off. THEY did this. THEY are responsible. Don't cast if off on the rest of us who tried to do the right thing and lost.

Yes. This is not the time their self centered gloating. They sent the message loud and clear that they don't give a fuck about women, minorities or LGBTQ americans. As if Bernie wouldn't have been absolutely slaughtered in the general too. But nooooo, conspiracy this, conspiracy that. Shut the fuck up and try to see past your privilege for three seconds so you can survey the full extent of your damage. 

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6 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

We all can..  Today is horrible, tomorrow will be horrible and days will be horrible but eventually it will get less horrible, then eventually when we figure out we'll survive because he will not be our President for four years, no way he'll survive it

If he does survive it, then we'll have another 15 months of Trump running for re-election...but, quite honestly, I'm more afraid of Mike Pence becoming president....Trump has his conservative views, sure, but Pence is more conservative when it comes to gays, women, etc....and he's better at hiding it.

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Just now, Spacecow said:

Yes. This is not the time their self centered gloating. They sent the message loud and clear that they don't give a fuck about women, minorities or LGBTQ americans. As if Bernie wouldn't have been absolutely slaughtered in the general too. But nooooo, conspiracy this, conspiracy that. Shut the fuck up and try to see past your privilege for three seconds so you can survey the full extent of your damage. 

Yes, they have a nerve and they're delusional thinking Bernie would have won. Hope their little revenge snit voting bites them in the ass forever.

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1 minute ago, Keepitmoving said:

She's tough, made of steel. But it does get exhausting watching her get knocked down and humiliated over the years. But again, her resilience is....admirable is not strong enough of a word.

I would not want to be in Hillary's HQ tonight. This is the biggest upset in Presidential politics since .... 1980.

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I am angry and sad and afraid. And also, I admit, suspicious. The last time polling results were this wrong imo was in 2000, where there -was- voter fraud.  (But even if there wasn't, the election was UNDOUBTEDLY influenced--probably tilted from Clinton to Trump--by the combined efforts of Russian intelligence, Julian Assange, and the U.S. media (and then by the FBI) to give Trump a way to keep the email "issue" --and his repeated claim Clinton was a "criminal" who was rigging the system for her own co rrupt profits against "you the American people".   Russia, Assange , Comey and the U.S. media, esp. cable news, share in the blame for this disaster.

But, that aside, here's something interesting. Kornacki just pointed out that Hillary is outpacing Trump 2:1 in California and probably will also have a large net gain in Washington state. At the moment, he is leading by about 1.3 million votes.  She could pick up a lead of 2 million or 3 million in Cthe West.

In other words, it is very possible, that he will win the electoral college (and, yes, the presidency) but LOSE the popular vote to her.  For some reason, I find that a little bit of a consolation, that he would always have that asterisk of becoming president because of the "rigged system" of electoral votes while LOSING the  majority approval in the "vote of  the people".

And don't we know what Trump would do if the situation were reversed and Hillary won the electoral college and he had won the popular vote? Of course we do.  Anyway, I'm hoping for that outcome, as a little bit of a smackdown of him even in victory.

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2 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

The third party voters are already starting with their smug "This wouldn't have happened with Bernie" shit. I am too sad and depressed to respond but I want to tell them to fuck off. THEY did this. THEY are responsible. Don't cast if off on the rest of us who tried to do the right thing and lost.

Kurt Eichenwald said on Twitter "I saw GOP opposition research on Bernie. It was brutal. He would have been torn to shreds."

The Bernie people can delude themselves to thinking Bernie would have had a better showing and they can be as smug as they want (for now).  But that doesn't change the fact that Donald J. Trump is probably their new President and their lack of common sense in not giving their votes to Hillary because she wasn't "pure" enough for them helped make that happen.  I wonder how long their smugness will last once Trump and Co. start dismantling things that took decades to put in place and could very well affect their jobs, their healthcare and their civil and human rights.  This Canadian is weeping for America tonight!
 

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32 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

I've never really followed politics, I've always voted and tried to stay informed but have never been emotionally involved. 

I'm sitting here all alone crying my eyes out. I'm really fucking scared. I'm in a position where I rely on a lot of the things that Trump is going to ruin. I have a young granddaughter and I'm terrified for her.  

I haven't had a drink in 20 years but I'm seriously contemplating cracking a bottle of wine. I'm sick to my stomach and can't stop crying. 

What the hell is going to happen to people like me? 

I'm sorry to sound so selfish but I'm not in a position to care for myself and I'm so damn scared right now. 

Well, fuck a duck, Maharincess, don't blow a twenty year streak on the Tangerine Asshole.  Crazy stuff has been happening, looks like more crazy stuff is going to happen, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. 

ACA got me insurance for the first time in well over a decade.  Yesterday I figured out my premium increase . . . wow.  So I called to price shop a private individual policy.  Ha.  They laughed in my face--I didn't even get far enough to TALK to an underwriter.  So I'm going back to ACA in the morning and I assume the website is still going to be there, with that one provider still left in my state and willing to line their pockets.

Nobody knows what's going to happen.  Looks like we're just going to have to creep ahead into the shitstorm.

I hope you got a lot of warm support from everybody on the previous page.  (It was jumping around in that post-Twitter/clip stutter thing that's going on and it took me about five minutes to hit the quote icon and capture your post.)  I'll be your "curse the darkness" grrrl.

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Just now, oakville said:

I would not want to be in Hillary's HQ tonight. This is the biggest upset in Presidential politics since .... 1980.

I would posit it is the biggest since 1948, "Dewey defeats Truman."

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5 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

Holy shit this is just incredible. People there are bawling their eyes out.

And in Trumpland - they are chanting "lock her up".

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I've endured enough for one night, I will not subject myself to Trump's acceptance speech and all the criticism that Hillary should have conceded tonight.  I don't think I'm going to do anything other than lie there and stare blankly, but I'm going to bed.

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3 minutes ago, Spacecow said:

Yes. This is not the time their self centered gloating. They sent the message loud and clear that they don't give a fuck about women, minorities or LGBTQ americans. As if Bernie wouldn't have been absolutely slaughtered in the general too. But nooooo, conspiracy this, conspiracy that. Shut the fuck up and try to see past your privilege for three seconds so you can survey the full extent of your damage. 

Bernie tried his best to support Hillary after he lost the nomination. The wikileaks revelations did not help persuade Bernie's supporters to help Hillary

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2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I've endured enough for one night, I will not subject myself to Trump's acceptance speech and all the criticism that Hillary should have conceded tonight.  I don't think I'm going to do anything other than lie there and stare blankly, but I'm going to bed.

I think I have some sleeping pills somewhere. I've already been up about 30 hours now.

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Something came out of my mouth tonight that I never thought I would say "I don't care about an unborn child" I said it in response to someone who said "at least unborn babies won't be murdered anymore" I said that I didn't care about a baby being aborted, what I cared about was that my 401k will be gone before I can even use it, that my parents' social security that they worked so hard for will vanish, that minorities will no longer feel safe in their own country, and she didn't get it, she truly didn't understand it, all she could say was "Well Hilary is so dishonest and we just need to stop abortion".

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1 minute ago, oakville said:

Bernie tried his best to support Hillary after he lost the nomination. The wikileaks revelations did not help persuade Bernie's supporters to help Hillary

I've seen the wikileaks emails and there's nothing in there to suggest that the election was stolen. The DNC had every right to be suspicious of Bernie over Hillary, who was actually part of the party and had been for decades. It's not like they literally sat there and said "Hm, yeah, this guy won't win". If you believe that, whatever, I don't care, but I don't. And so fucking what if they weren't persuaded? That's not anybody's fault but their own. Putting their own desire to throw a hissy fit against the wellbeing of millions of Americans. I'm sorry but they don't have my sympathy at all. 

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The Bernie people can delude themselves to thinking Bernie would have had a better showing and they can be as smug as they want (for now).  

I'm not paying them any attention. Hillary has her authenticity faults but sorry, there is  hatred in this country and it has never evaporated, at least not enough. It has been lying dormant and a genuine 75 year old socialist in no way would have broken through enough to beat it, no way. The red on that map is a beast and it was silenced because they weren't feeling McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012.  They wanted a nazi/kkk candidate to bring them out and here we are. They didn't want togetherness in their fight to take down the establishment which is what Bernie was offering. He wasn't trying to scapegoat onto groups of people with his populist message, but that's not what the Trump voter wanted and there seems to be more of them than we thought. 

Ultimately, they wanted hate. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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This thread is going to auto-lock at 3am. Our suggestion is to take the postmortem over to the Election Anxiety Thread. 

Thank you all for being great posters. We're all exhausted so please remember to treat everyone (yes everyone) here with respect. Report, don't engage, you all know the drill. Here is an adorable baby horse snuggling with a teddy bear.

Please just be kind to each other. 

tiny-horses-20__605.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Padma said:

I am angry and sad and afraid. And also, I admit, suspicious. The last time polling results were this wrong imo was in 2000, where there -was- voter fraud.  (But even if there wasn't, the election was UNDOUBTEDLY influenced--probably tilted from Clinton to Trump--by the combined efforts of Russian intelligence, Julian Assange, and the U.S. media (and then by the FBI) to give Trump a way to keep the email "issue" --and his repeated claim Clinton was a "criminal" who was rigging the system for her own co rrupt profits against "you the American people".   Russia, Assange , Comey and the U.S. media, esp. cable news, share in the blame for this disaster.

But, that aside, here's something interesting. Kornacki just pointed out that Hillary is outpacing Trump 2:1 in California and probably will also have a large net gain in Washington state. At the moment, he is leading by about 1.3 million votes.  She could pick up a lead of 2 million or 3 million in Cthe West.

In other words, it is very possible, that he will win the electoral college (and, yes, the presidency) but LOSE the popular vote to her.  For some reason, I find that a little bit of a consolation, that he would always have that asterisk of becoming president because of the "rigged system" of electoral votes while LOSING the  majority approval in the "vote of  the people".

And don't we know what Trump would do if the situation were reversed and Hillary won the electoral college and he had won the popular vote? Of course we do.  Anyway, I'm hoping for that outcome, as a little bit of a smackdown of him even in victory.

It looks like a repeat of 2000, however several more states are trending Trump's way. Trump appears to have the highest number of Electoral Votes for the GOP since George HW Bush 1988. Carvile is trying to explain this mess.

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29 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

We all can..  Today is horrible, tomorrow will be horrible and days will be horrible but eventually it will get less horrible, then eventually when we figure out we'll survive because he will not be our President for four years, no way he'll survive it

Yes!!  I'm trying to cycle through my emotions as fast as I can, because although it may take years, to fix this mess is going to take sustained urgency.  I've gone from confident today, to heartbroken and shattered to furious tonight, to moving forward. I'm being urgent.

And as dark as today is, we do have a good base of a coalition to move forward.  And dammit, we will.

We had an unprecedented wave of rural (I prefer to call it non-urban) voters in record amounts.  And our damn coalition almost beat these record vote amounts. We worked so hard and did so much (she outpaced Obama in many areas), but we didn't do enough.  Yet, we have to stick together. 

So sure, we can point to this thing happening, or that thing happening (and, boy howdy, there's a lot of that to be looked at) or a maybe 'that' guy could have done better (I don't believe that), but by god, let's not sling arrows at each other.  We are the future if we keep this coalition, it just wasn't now as so many of us expected.

And tell those that are hurt we hear them, we are sorry, but we are working.  I know a lot of this sounds trite (and I'm barely holding it together some moments myself) but we have to believe if we are going to right this horrible, horrible night.  And we have to make those most vulnerable believe that we didn't quit on them and that we won't ever quit on them.  And that we will get better, there will be more of us and we will fix this.   And until we get it fixed, we must take care of each other.

And we must keep the urgency.  As Obama said the other night, it wasn't 'yes I can', it was 'yes, we can'--he wasn't a magic cure all.  WE fell short.  We'll fix it.

Edited by pennben
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I honestly don't know if I can stand to do any post mortem. If I can't bring myself to go back into the political threads, I want to thank all of you for helping me stay sane this last few weeks. You've been the best. I hope to see you in happier forums (like for shows). 

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I'm not paying them any attention. Hillary has her authenticity faults but sorry, there is  hatred in this country and it has never evaporated, at least not enough. It has been lying dormant 

I went to this reading/performance of this book American Slave Coast. I wish it had been recorded so I could link you to it though I don't think anyone here is one of the people who need to see it. Change is hard. And change is slow. And we must remember our history and how low we have been and how far we have come. As painful as this is now, this strike is a battle won. It is not the war. We will win the war. 

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I thank you all for talking me down.  I have spent my general elections at Democratic Underground since 2006, but they were knocked out by a hacker and still aren't back up.  

If you are a disillusioned Hillary fan (or any shape or form of anti-Trump!), come join us there.  DU was formed on January 20, 2001, by a bunch of folks disgusted by the first election of GW Bush.  They figured that the Democratic Party was going to have to go underground to survive in that new Republican world.  I suspect, when the site is back up in the morning, we'll be going to the mattresses again.  Join us!

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Fuck, I feel awful about saying before that Gary Johnson would take Trump voters, not Hillary. I do wonder how many bitter Bernie bros sat out. 

4 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

Something came out of my mouth tonight that I never thought I would say "I don't care about an unborn child" I said it in response to someone who said "at least unborn babies won't be murdered anymore" I said that I didn't care about a baby being aborted, what I cared about was that my 401k will be gone before I can even use it, that my parents' social security that they worked so hard for will vanish, that minorities will no longer feel safe in their own country, and she didn't get it, she truly didn't understand it, all she could say was "Well Hilary is so dishonest and we just need to stop abortion".

As a vehemently pro choice woman, I am now terrified of the idea of back alley abortions becoming a huge thing.  I am terrified for immigrants and  minorities in this country being victims of hate and violence since fear against them has been validated by this election. I am terrified of LGBT friends losing their rights. I am terrified for my near retirement parents. I am terrified for my husband in the military now that this ass clown will our commander in chief.

fuck.

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