S01.E01: Wolferton Splash

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A young Princess Elizabeth marries Prince Philip. As King George VI’s health worsens, Winston Churchill is elected prime minister for the second time.

 

[Primetimer]

If you like portraits of royals behind the scenes, mid-century fashions, and posh British accents, then this series is probably for you.

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[morgankobi]

Much love to the matches mention in the article.
"What is it, Sebastian?"

[YoSaffBridge]

Much love to the matches mention in the article.
"What is it, Sebastian?"

"I think I'd better go." "Yes, I think you'd better had."

[zxy556575]

Good lord. I didn't realize this is planned to be 60 bloody episodes. I hate old age makeup.

[xtwheeler]

13 hours ago, lordonia said:

Good lord. I didn't realize this is planned to be 60 bloody episodes. I hate old age makeup.

I have read that it is planned for 6 seasons, with this cast doing 2, an older cast doing two, and a yet older cast doing the final two. 

[zxy556575]

34 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

I have read that it is planned for 6 seasons, with this cast doing 2, an older cast doing two, and a yet older cast doing the final two. 

Ah, thanks. Somewhat mollified.

[VCRTracking]

Jared Harris is going to get an Emmy nomination for sure. He was heartbreaking.

Love John Lithgow as Winston Churchill. "Prominent Nazis!"

The kid they cast as young Prince Charles is spot on.

[Bec]

I had no idea he's in this thing. I was like OMG, Lane is the King of England!

I wouldn't have minded getting to see more of Queen Elizabeth's life before she became queen. But show skipped over a lot of time pretty quickly. And yet somehow the pace still seems slow? Not that I'm complaining. A slow burn fits this kind of show. Gives me more time to focus on looking at all the pretty.

[teddysmom]

I watched the first 30 minutes this morning and had cold chills.   My God this is gorgeous. It makes Downton Abbey look like a cable access show. 

Vulture had a great article yesterday worth checking out.  Photos of the main characters (IRL) next to the actor playing them, and then a brief description of their role  re QE II during this period.  

I had read that it's slow but in a good way, it's covering a lot of information and gives the viewer time to process all of it. 

[SeanC]

I like the opening scene of Philip swapping out of his Greek titles and immediately getting a bunch of British ones (in real life he was a commoner for several months). Followed by the wedding vows and their smiling at the "for richer, for poorer" part.

Also, as an example of differing attitudes toward parenting compared to today, Elizabeth dismissing Philip's concerns about going on the royal tour (to "Keen-ya", as she puts it) without Charles and Anne by saying that they're too young to notice whether their parents are around or not.

Fittingly, this episode is really structured with George VI as the main character, seeing as he wears the titular crown. Of course, that won't last long. What a fantastic performance by Jared Harris (the 2010s have been very kind of George VI in media).

[Bcharmer]

On 11/3/2016 at 8:11 AM, YoSaffBridge said:

"I think I'd better go." "Yes, I think you'd better had."

Funny... as I was watching the first episode, I thought of Eddie Izzard, too, during the rowing scene ("Row, you bastards!" - another bit from Dress to Kill). I was just waiting for the Queen to say, "You're a plumber? What on eaaaaahhhrrrthh is that?"

[Lillybee]

John Lithgow did a fantastic job of portraying Winston Churchill. I am old enough to remember Winston Churchill through the papers and newsreels. He totally nailed the posture and walk. 

[GaT]

The clothing & the look of the show is fantastic., but every time the King took a drag off of a cigarette, I wanted to scream "put the damn thing out!" 

[millk]

3 hours ago, GaT said:

The clothing & the look of the show is fantastic., but every time the King took a drag off of a cigarette, I wanted to scream "put the damn thing out!" 

I have an ashtray given as a souvineer at an Ontario Medical Association event in 1939 with George VI's face on it.

[howiveaddict]

Loving this series but, every time Matt Smith is on, all I see is The Doctor!  Also, seeing Victoria Hamilton playing the queen mother, reminds me that she played young Victoria years ago in Victoria and Albert.    Just checked, it was only 15 years ago.  So she went from playing engenue queen to queen mother in 15 years.

[PRgal]

Anyone grossed out when Philip kissed Elizabeth right after a few puffs of his cigarette?  AFTER she told him she HATED him smoking???  EWWWWW!!!

[AnnieBananie]

I am so thrilled about this series I can hardly type. I think the casting is spot on, and as a history buff, this is so gorgeously done. I know, though, that I'll bring in a few of my friends solely on Matt Smith's butt alone.

[spaceghostess]

  On 11/3/2016 at 11:11 AM, YoSaffBridge said:

"I think I'd better go." "Yes, I think you'd better had."

Funny... as I was watching the first episode, I thought of Eddie Izzard, too, during the rowing scene ("Row, you bastards!" - another bit from Dress to Kill). I was just waiting for the Queen to say, "You're a plumber? What on eaaaaahhhrrrthh is that?"

"Do you have a flag?"

[metaphor]

Just started watching this show, and I was so impressed with the first episode. I thought Jared Harris (Hi, Mr. Jones!) was the standout. What a moving performance, with the highlights being his singing with the carolers, his discussion with Elizabeth about being king, and his chat with Philip about his duty. I'm kind of glad this is on Netflix, so we have the whole season at once. Really hope the quality is maintained throughout the season and in the coming ones as well.

Edited November 6, 2016 by metaphor

[tennisgurl]

Hey, its Jared Harris! I had no idea he was going to be in this! Awesome! At first I kept calling him King lane of Manhattan, but by the end of the episode I was totally on board with him as King George. He just broke my heart, and I hope he sticks around even after he inevitably dies soon. Flashbacks hopefully? I just really love Jared Harris a lot. Love him in anything I have every seen him in, directed my favorite episode of Mad Men, and sent me a few really nice Tweets one time. 

This is just lovely. Its like Downton but actually good and not filled with stupid soap opera antics. Well, there are soap opera antics, but they're ones that actually happened, so its way more interesting.  

Edited November 6, 2016 by tennisgurl

[WatchrTina]

Okay, I'm re-watching now.  Nitpick mode on.  In the very first scene, after Philip renounces all his titles and is made Duke of Edinburgh, when he leaves the room, the footmen bow to him.  That was a mistake in protocol, wasn't it?  In England one only bows and curtseys to Princes and Princesses and the King and Queen, right?  I don't think you bow to a Duke and he won't be a prince-by-marriage until the following day.  Of course, I think he was a European prince of the blood when he entered the room (before he renounced his foreign titles) and he'll be a prince-by-marriance tomorrow so I suppose it would make sense for everyone in the palace to continue to to extend the royal courtesies to him.   Like I said, a nit-pick.

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Okay, I'm re-watching now.  Nitpick mode on.  In the very first scene, after Philip renounces all his titles and is made Duke of Edinburgh, when he leaves the room, the footmen bow to him.  That was a mistake in protocol, wasn't it?  In England one only bows and curtseys to Princes and Princesses and the King and Queen, right?  I don't think you bow to a Duke and he won't be a prince-by-marriage until the following day.  Of course, I think he was a European prince of the blood when he entered the room (before he renounced his foreign titles) and he'll be a prince-by-marriance tomorrow so I suppose it would make sense for everyone in the palace to continue to to extend the royal courtesies to him.   Like I said, a nit-pick.

There's actually no such thing as a prince-by-marriage in the UK titles system.  A man who marries a princess gains no title (which is why, customarily, a commoner who marries a princess is offered an earldom).

Spoiler

Philip was "just" the Duke of Edinburgh until 1957, when Elizabeth made him a prince in his own right, which is why he's known as Prince Philip -- whereas, say, Kate is not Princess Catherine, and Diana, despite widespread misuse of the term, was not Princess Diana.

[WatchrTina]

You are right about Prince Philip.  According to Wikipedia:

Quote

Philip has held a number of titles throughout his life. Originally holding the title and style of a prince of Greece and Denmark, Philip abandoned these royal titles prior to his marriage, and was thereafter created a British duke, among other noble titles. It was not, however, until the Queen issued Letters Patent in 1957 that Philip was again titled as a prince.

However a woman who marries a prince IS entitled to be called princess but it's "Princess <husband's first name>" so they seldom use it.  The one exception is Princess Michael of Kent (married to Prince Michael of Kent.)  You're right that Diana was never properly "Princess Diana" though the public called her that.  She was The Princess of Wales.

And as for the palace staff continuing to bow to Philip even after the ceremony where he renounced his title as a European prince -- technically I still think that was wrong but it was only for a day (at least in the TV series). The next day, even though he still wasn't a "prince" he was a member of the royal family so I guess the courtesies that his wife was entitled to (bows and curtseys) were extended to him as well even though he was "just" a Duke.

But now I think I'm straying off the episode and dangerously into real life, which we said we'd confine other threads for fear of "real life" spoilers so I'll stop talking about this.

Can I just say these episode are so beautiful that even on the second viewing I find myself amazed.  They can't really have filmed that post-wedding balcony scene (or any other scene) in Buckingham palace but damn it's convincing.  I doubt if they filmed the wedding in Westminster Abbey but where-ever they filmed it, it works really well as a stand-in.

Edited November 6, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Thalia]

I would have liked to have seen a bit more about Elizabeth and Phillip's courtship.  I've always thought was a romantic story, at least from her point of view, and was somewhat surprised by her hesitation and unwillingness to look him in the eyes as she started reciting her vows.  I wonder if that was true.  

Quote

Also, seeing Victoria Hamilton playing the queen mother, reminds me that she played young Victoria years ago in Victoria and Albert.  

Thank you!   I was wondering where I had seen her.  I loved that miniseries.  I also kept wondering where I'd seen the actor who played Edward VIII in a later episode, and it turned out he played Prince Charles in THE QUEEN. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by Thalia

[stcroix]

I am so excited to find you all talking about this show!  I've been binge watching for the past two night and have only 2 episodes left :(  I'm LOVING the beauty and acting and music of all this!  The actors are doing an amazing job.  I also think the actor playing the King is just delivering a fantastic job and makes me feel such sympathy for him.  I know I'll be rewatching this entire series again.  The only nit pick I have is I wish they'd found an actress who resembled the Queen Mother a little more. 

[Daisy]

i was sooo excited to watch this (I was watching Victoria first so I am fully in a British Monarchy mood). 

I am curious why Philip had to give up all of his titles and the such. it would have been nice for that to be explained.  King George's lung cancer made me very sad. Actually When I see Phillip, all I see is the Doctor. I do hope I can start seeing Prince Philip soon. 

The children were lovely. I can tell this is going to be a great series. 

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I am curious why Philip had to give up all of his titles and the such.

Because he's marrying the future queen of England; his loyalty to her has to be absolute, and there can be no appearance otherwise.

[Daisy]

31 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Because he's marrying the future queen of England; his loyalty to her has to be absolute, and there can be no appearance otherwise.

thanks :) That makes sense. (i'm riddled with cold, so apologies if that sounded like a dumb question). 

(I also figured out who the older woman is. Queen Mary).

[SeanC]

12 hours ago, Daisy said:

I am curious why Philip had to give up all of his titles and the such. 

 

12 hours ago, Daisy said:

thanks :) 

To add, I expect Philip's being a man and some of his sisters' politically problematic marriages also played into it, as in prior generations this hadn't been necessary for foreign princesses marrying into the royal family.  Queen Mary was a princess of the Kingdom of Wurttemberg (one of the component parts of the German Empire), and Elizabeth's great-grandmother Queen Alexandra was a princess of Denmark.  As well, Elizabeth's late uncle Prince George, Duke of Kent, married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark in the 1930s.

[dubbel zout]

The women didn't keep those titles either, but since they were women, it probably wasn't given a second thought. Of course they'd take their husband's styles and titles.

[Jeeves]

I watched the whole season already, and now I'm re-watching it. Random thoughts after the second time of seeing this episode. 

I'm in the big crowd that adores Jared Harris' King George VI. I've read that George VI was overall a very good man, who however was subject to sudden outbursts of bad temper (or, as I read between the lines of the biographers' cautious prose, rage). I thought of that when, at about 7 minutes into the episode, the King suddenly shouts at and pushes away his attendant who has been fumbling with putting on his collar. It was a shocking contrast to his usual demeanor, and kudos to the writers for giving us that glimpse of George's dark side. (Something I believe he struggled with, as he did with the stammering, and with having been handed the Crown with damn all preparation for it. As I said, a good man.)

In that scene, we are introduced to the intuitive and ever-supportive Group Captain Peter Townsend, the King's Equerry. First, the King complains that the carriage is going to be cold, and Peter responds that there will be hot water bottles in it. Then, after the King roars and swats away his fumbling old valet, Peter steps in and fastens the King's collar. Yes, hello viewers, this is the capable man who has the knack of calming down touchy Royals when they get upset. Also note that he's a war hero, a man in the prime of life, and kind of hot-looking. Mark your programs. We'll see him again. Ahem.

Okay, I've got no complaints about Matt Smith's butt, @AnnieBananie. Or any of the rest of his physique. [Pause for moment of appropriate appreciation. No kidding.] But somehow I'm not getting him as Philip. This is a rare case where the real life person who's being dramatized, is more classically handsome than the actor in the role. The young Prince Philip of Greece was truly an Adonis, and I get 100% how the young Princess Elizabeth could be instantly smitten when she met him. I can't articulate what isn't right about Smith's performance, so let's just say it's me and not him. 

Claire Foy has landed a difficult role. Elizabeth was reared to be the heir to the Crown, and she seemed to be a serious, thoughtful, and conscientious child anyway. She didn't put her feelings out in the shop window - compared to, for instance, her younger sister Margaret. A character with that level of reserve, and consciousness of having to act appropriately at all times not just "in public," but anywhere outside the privacy of home, has to be a huge challenge for an actor. There's a lot going on in her head while her face remains composed and she's not saying much. The altar scene at the wedding, for instance. I wonder if all the Royal history that's literally embodied and entombed in Westminster Abbey was running through her mind as she stood there to be married to the handsome prince she'd loved since she was a young teenager. Or, heck, maybe she was thinking about the wedding night. Anyway, she was emotional and not at all glib, and Philip had to help her a bit with the vows. 

@SeanC posted while I was writing this, with good points about Philip's background. I saw a documentary not along ago (PBS? I forget) about Philip, and the opposition to his marrying Elizabeth. Because, sisters married to big Nazis. And more.

Besides Churchill grumping in church about Philip's sisters and their "Nazis," there was that super-snipy exchange during the wedding photo session, between the Queen and Queen Mary, about Philip's mother Alice, as Alice in her nun's habit was joining her family for a photo. Look up a documentary called "The Queens' Mother in Law" for info on her. I loathed the cruelty of those remarks, because I knew Princess Alice had fought her way back from mental illness, sheltered Jews in Greece during WWII, and turned down a life of ease to work with the poor in Greece. All while being deaf! Good for the writers for showing that side of the old Queens.

So many layers in these stories, that the writers tackled instead of ignoring. Hat tipped.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Jeeves
Trying to avoid a wall of text.

[MissLucas]

I also loved those little things like the king's outburst or the quick glance into Queen Mary's dark side when talking about Princess Alice (who deserves her own movie btw.). But I wish they had given us a bit more about the courtship and some of the difficulties the young couple had to face. I would have loved to see Philip agonizing about his gift to the bride and then receiving his mother's tiara to have it remade into an engagement ring and the diamond bracelet Elizabeth wore at her wedding. That would have given us tons of touching background. But from the looks of it the show seems to rather focus on Philip's difficult sides (and Matt Smith's good sides if you know what I mean) than his difficulties. For example they showed him smoking in the Palace but IIRC it was never mentioned that he actually gave it up for Elizabeth after the wedding.

[SeanC]

33 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The women didn't keep those titles either, but since they were women, it probably wasn't given a second thought. Of course they'd take their husband's styles and titles.

From what I understood, they retained their titles, but they used their husband's consort, which were higher-ranked.  Their birth titles just joined the laundry list.

[Jeeves]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

For example they showed [Philip] smoking in the Palace but IIRC it was never mentioned that he actually gave it up for Elizabeth after the wedding.

IIRC it was almost a throwaway line in that scene with Elizabeth after the ceremony where he became the Duke of Edinburgh aka Philip Mountbatten, but he said he was giving up smoking for her. Agreed, they gave short shrift to his back story and their back story as a couple.

[dubbel zout]

27 minutes ago, SeanC said:

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

The women didn't keep those titles either, but since they were women, it probably wasn't given a second thought. Of course they'd take their husband's styles and titles.

From what I understood, they retained their titles, but they used their husband's consort, which were higher-ranked.  Their birth titles just joined the laundry list.

I'm not sure about some of them men's titles being of higher rank—Marina of Greece was an HRH in her own right and married a younger son rather than heir to the throne—but "gave up" was wrong. My point was more that the women being referred to by their husband's styles and titles, rather than what they were born with, wasn't ever an issue.

[AnnieBananie]

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Besides Churchill grumping in church about Philip's sisters and their "Nazis," there was that super-snipy exchange during the wedding photo session, between the Queen and Queen Mary, about Philip's mother Alice, as Alice in her nun's habit was joining her family for a photo. Look up a documentary called "The Queens' Mother in Law" for info on her. I loathed the cruelty of those remarks, because I knew Princess Alice had fought her way back from mental illness, sheltered Jews in Greece during WWII, and turned down a life of ease to work with the poor in Greece. All while being deaf! Good for the writers for showing that side of the old Queens.

So many layers in these stories, that the writers tackled instead of ignoring. Hat tipped.

Peter Morgan and co. manages to insert such fascinating tidbits on everyone and their stories that I would watch, happily, 10-episode-long series about Princess Alice, Queen Mary of Teck, the Queen Mother... hell, the footmen and the equerries. I have no doubt that he would do a masterful job.

[Ripley68]

I fangirled that the meeting between the King and Churchill looked like the same room from "The Queen" that was used for her meeting with Blair.

 

I'm curious about the relationships they're showing with Elizabeth/Phillip and the kids.  I was under the impression the parents were always kind of cold fish; but the first episode makes it look like they were loving parents until duty called (well, Phillip still looks like he's trying to be a loving parent after).

Yet another show to add to the  "drink whenever you see an actor who's been in Downton/Doctor/GoT.

[MissLucas]

The private footage featured in the BBC documentary shown this year was full of the children playing with Philip - Elisabeth was holding the camera. And the scenes felt not staged - you could tell the kids felt comfortable around their parents. IMO the 'cold fish' narrative was mostly created by Charles (and his notorious spin doctors) during the time after Diana's death when Charles was in desperate need of a 're-branding'. They were probably not perfect parents but I've come to question a lot of things that were put to the media during those days.

That said I have no doubts that Charles is still holding his time in Gordonstoun against his parents - especially his father. That was a mistake - no doubt a great school for some kids like the Duke himself but Charles was definitely not a kid that benefited from the regime there.

Edited November 8, 2016 by MissLucas

[Trillian]

On 11/6/2016 at 10:32 PM, Daisy said:

I am curious why Philip had to give up all of his titles and the such. it would have been nice for that to be explained.  

In addition to all the other explanations given, there is an additional factor:  if Philip kept his titles, his children could inherit them and inherit his place in any lines of succession for foreign thrones.  That sort of thing gets politically  messy - and has been the cause of many wars, a la the English claim to Aquitaine through the marriage of Eleanor of Aquitaine to the English king.

[VCRTracking]

Quote

The private footage featured in the BBC documentary shown this year was full of the children playing with Philip - Elisabeth was holding the camera. And the scenes felt not staged - you could tell the kids felt comfortable around their parents. IMO the 'cold fish' narrative was mostly created by Charles (and his notorious spin doctors) during the time after Diana's death when Charles was in desperate need of a 're-branding'. They were probably not perfect parents but I've come to question a lot of things that were put to the media during those days.

That said I have no doubts that Charles is still holding his time in Gordonstoun against his parents - especially his father. That was a mistake - no doubt a great school for some kids like the Duke himself but Charles was definitely not a kid that benefited from the regime there.

There's a bit of foreshadowing in the distance between Charles and his father when Phillip says to his friend "This one's a dreamer." when he has trouble playing a manly sport like football(soccer) with him. I saw a Diana documentary she wrote a friend saying how close William was close with his grandfather. That they had the same interests in things like military history and would talk often.  There's an implication William was the son Phillip wished Charles had been. 

[EarlGreyTea]

For some irrational reason I loathe Matt Smith's acting (I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man), so I'm pretty disappointed with his casting. Someone upthread said it, and I agree, that this is one of the rare times the real life person is better looking than the actor. Philip is as tall as a redwood tree too, so Smith's lack of height in comparison kind of bugs me too (I told you my hate was irrational). No need for the butt shot, honestly, but if we're going to have gratuitous nudity, I'd prefer it was a male actor. Female actors are usually burdened with that task.

I thought Princess Margaret's casting was spot on in terms of looks. If you look at photos of them side by side it's not immediately apparent, but the more I saw of the actress, the more I thought she was a dead ringer for Margaret. Ben Miles gave me a good chuckle when he showed up as Peter Townsend. I've only ever seen him in Coupling, and it bugged the crap out of me that I couldn't remember where I'd seen him before. Never seen him in a dramatic role before. Now there's good casting - Townsend was pretty handsome IRL too.

Claire Foy has nailed Elizabeth's voice. It's uncanny.

Finally, Jared Harris is tearing it up as Bertie. I loved Colin Firth's performance in The King's Speech, but Harris looks a bit more like the actual George. There's this quiet, somber dignity that Harris is giving to the character that I love.

[roamyn]

I'm loving Lithgow as Churchill.

Whoever plays Queen Mary is astounding in her demeanor, her mannerisms, and her wit (so far).

Not sure I like Matt Smith as DoE.  He's not as handsome.

Claire Foy is growing on me, but QETQM seems like a terrible casting job.

ETA:  I thought HM King George VI was never told abt his cancer?

Edited November 15, 2016 by roamyn

[dubbel zout]

Eileen Atkins is Queen Mary.

[ciprus]

Fantastic start, I'm blown away by how beautiful everything looks. I was thrilled when I saw Stephen Daldry's name in the beginning. Not sure I want six seasons, though. It's easy to go tabloid tacky with the 80's and 90's.

They did a great job showing the loneliness of the crown. I have a feeling I won't like Philip much, but then again, I never have cared for the real Philip, so not much surprise there. Perfect casting though!

[Bec]

On 11/17/2016 at 0:20 PM, ciprus said:

Not sure I want six seasons, though. It's easy to go tabloid tacky with the 80's and 90's.

Ha, yeah. Besides, fashions get a lot uglier some time in the mid 60s (if Mad Men was anything to go by), and looking at pretty, pretty dresses was part of the big draw for me.

But "The Queen" (the movie starring Helen Mirren) was made by some of these same people, and that was a fantastic movie, so I have faith that they can make compelling plotlines out of anything and it will be beautifully filmed with lots of lingering shots of scenery (good thing a lot of these stories take place in grand old buildings that continue to look incredible no matter what decade it is.)

[snarktini]

If the King wasn't told about his cancer, and his family didn't know either, who exactly had the authority to make medical decisions for THE KING? Advisers, one assumes? I know in the past doctors didn't always consult patients but I thought that was more women and kids than male heads of households. It's so weird that a competent adult man -- one of the most powerful men in the world -- would be kept in the dark about his own body.

Edited November 23, 2016 by snarktini

[Badger]

FWIW, Emperor Showa (Hirohito) also died without ever knowing he had cancer.  This was around 1989 or 1990.  I don't think there's any hard and fast rule about  royalty and serious illness.  

[Nire]

I really liked Matt Smith as Phillip.  I thought he did a good job creating a character who was really struggling with his role.  My understanding is that the second season will give us more of Phillip's backstory and hopefully more of their relationship backstory as well.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

I don't think there's any hard and fast rule about royalty and serious illness.  

It's a cultural/social thing. In the fifties, cancer was still a shameful disease. George's doctors couldn't even say the word to Churchill, let alone to the royal family.