S07.E06: The Defenestration of Frank

[40Love]

40 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Gus has now been abandoned in addition to being cheated on. I can see why he was pretty fucking pissed. He went way over the line, but Fiona hosed him twice, first by cheating on him, then promising to work it out only to ditch him when something better came along.

Yeah... his pissy-ness is justified. I guess I just hate the way they all seem to self-destruct... But, I guess we wouldn't have a show if they didn't. Heh

[Dee]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

Off camera (the hiatus between seasons) Fiona and Gus reconcile. Sean then has a change of heart and tells Fiona he wants to be with her. Fiona ditches Gus because Sean was her first choice anyways. Gus has now been abandoned in addition to being cheated on. I can see why he was pretty fucking pissed. He went way over the line, but Fiona hosed him twice, first by cheating on him, then promising to work it out only to ditch him when something better came along.

Fiona never fully reconciled with Gus between Seasons 5 & 6.

Fiona confided in Gus about all the craziness her family was going through at the end of Season Five, with implicit hope of a full reconciliation, but Gus gently rejected her offer to stay at the Gallagher house with her because he felt she hadn't decided if she really wanted to be with him & returned to his own place.

By the beginning of Season 6, Fiona and Sean are in a fairly solid relationship. They're virtually living together and he's heavily involved in almost every aspect of her personal life.

Which is why Debbie's later assertion that Fiona 'ghosted' Gus, stings Fiona so deeply, because it was true. A fact which Vee reluctantly agrees with, as she & Fiona are in the midst of discussing Fiona's multiple 'Who's The Daddy' situation.

All of which is what prompts Fiona (with Vee in tow) to attend Gus gig with naive hopes of achieving closure and to return his engagement ring.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Dee

[Tatum]

8 minutes ago, Dee said:

Fiona never fully reconciled with Gus between Seasons 5 & 6.

Fiona confided in Gus about all the craziness her family was going through at the end of Season Five, with implicit hope of a full reconciliation, but Gus gently rejected her offer to stay at the Gallagher house with her because he felt she hadn't decided if she really wanted to be with him & returned to his own place.

Well, I did say that was my speculation only. At the end of season 5, Fiona did approach Sean and kind of obliquely ask his advice for reconciling with Gus. Sean indicated he and Fiona would not be a good couple, and encouraged her to work things out with Gus. In the beginning of Season 6, Fiona and Sean are together with no real explanation of what happened to get from point A to point B. The writers deliberately left it vague, but it was my interpretation that Gus did believe he and Fiona were going to work things out, only to have Fiona ultimately reject him for good to be with Sean.

 

ETA: if it was in fact that Gus encouraged Fiona to figure out what she wanted before trying to work things out with him, and Fiona just never came back, then I don't think his anger is that justified. But like I said, the impression that I got at the end of Season 5 was that Fiona really wanted to be with Sean, but would settle for Gus. Since Sean did reject her at the end of the episode, I took that to mean Fiona would return to Gus. But perhaps that is not what the writers intended to imply.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Tatum

[Dee]

41 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Well, I did say that was my speculation only. At the end of season 5, Fiona did approach Sean and kind of obliquely ask his advice for reconciling with Gus. Sean indicated he and Fiona would not be a good couple, and encouraged her to work things out with Gus. In the beginning of Season 6, Fiona and Sean are together with no real explanation of what happened to get from point A to point B. The writers deliberately left it vague, but it was my interpretation that Gus did believe he and Fiona were going to work things out, only to have Fiona ultimately reject him for good to be with Sean.

Sean tells Fiona they wouldn't be a good couple, going as far as to label her a 'Chaos Junkie,' very early in Season 5.

After that, he spends most of the Season giving advice and sending mixed signals to her in between being distraught & self destructive over Nicole and Will moving away as Fiona continually attempts to ingratiate herself into his personal life.

It's actually Vee who urges Fiona most firmly to work things out with Gus, which they do (halfheartedly), but not before Gus and his band leave to go on tour. When Gus tells her the tour is abruptly cancelled & he's returning to town, Fiona is happy. However, after one failed Skype date and an endless string of family crises, Fiona essentially chooses Sean as her primary emotional confidante. A position which, for all his ongoing protestations, Sean is more than happy to fill.

By the end of Season 5, Fiona tells Sean she's "pretty sure" she's in love with him and that she believes the feeling's mutual on his end, which he doesn't deny. He protests that she's married and doesn't want to be the cause of her marriage breaking up.

Fiona asks him if his feelings would change if she and Gus split up, and Sean, again, reasserts not wanting to be the cause of her marriage falling apart. Then they share a mutual kiss and Fiona tells Sean he makes her happy. Sean gruffly retorts happiness is overrated and soberly urges her to grow up.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Dee

[Tatum]

6 minutes ago, Dee said:

Sean tells Fiona they wouldn't be a good couple, going as far as to label her a 'Chaos Junkie,' very early in Season 5.

After that, he spends most of the Season giving advice and sending mixed signals to her in between being distraught & self destructive over Nicole and Will moving away as Fiona continually attempts to ingratiate herself into his personal life.

It's actually Vee who urges Fiona to work things out with Gus, which they do (halfheartedly), but not before Gus and his band leave to go on tour. When Gus tells her the tour is abruptly cancelled & he's returning to town, Fiona is happy. However, after one failed Skype date and an endless string of family crises, Fiona essentially chooses Sean as her emotional confidante. A position which, for all his ongoing protestations, Sean is more than happy to fill.

By the end of Season 5, Fiona tells Sean she's "pretty sure" she's in love with him and that she believes the feeling's mutual on his end, which he doesn't deny. He protests that she's married and doesn't want to be the cause of her marriage breaking up.

Fiona asks him if his feelings would change if she and Gus split up, and Sean, again, reasserts not wanting to be the cause of her marriage falling apart. Then they share a mutual kiss and Fiona tells Sean he makes her happy. Sean gruffly retorts happiness is overrated and soberly urges her to grow up.

See, I took that as Sean telling her he is not going to enter a relationship with her at this time, which to me meant that Fiona was going to pursue a reconciliation with Gus if Sean was not an option. Given the amount of mixed signals that Sean did give Fiona all season, it seemed totally probable to me that Sean would reject the notion of dating Fiona, then see her with another guy, get jealous, and change his mind.

 

Regardless of how it went down, I do believe we are supposed to infer that Fiona never actually ended things with Gus- which is why Debbie accused her of ghosting Gus in the next season. To me, Gus's anger is more justified if Fiona continued to lead him on while still hoping for a relationship with Sean, vs. her just never talking to him again after he tells her to figure out what it is she wants. But we never got the actual back story of what happened between seasons.

[Dee]

Quote

See, I took that as Sean telling her he is not going to enter a relationship with her at this time, which to me meant that Fiona was going to pursue a reconciliation with Gus if Sean was not an option. Given the amount of mixed signals that Sean did give Fiona all season, it seemed totally probable to me that Sean would reject the notion of dating Fiona, then see her with another guy, get jealous, and change his mind.

I could see how one could get that impression.

But in spite of all of Sean's protestations about not wanting to be the cause of Fiona's marriage breaking up, he never makes an effort to put distance between them, especially once Nicole and Will leave. And when Fiona brings up if her leaving Gus would make Sean more amenable to a relationship with her, his response is decidedly non-committal.

So when Season 6 opens with Fiona & Sean in a loose relationship, it wasn't all that surprising, at least to me.

Just now, Tatum said:

Regardless of how it went down, I do believe we are supposed to infer that Fiona never actually ended things with Gus- which is why Debbie accused her of ghosting Gus in the next season. To me, Gus's anger is more justified if Fiona continued to lead him on while still hoping for a relationship with Sean, vs. her just never talking to him again after he tells her to figure out what it is she wants. But we never got the actual back story of what happened between seasons.

The source of Gus anger was that he was waiting for Fiona to make up her mind about them while she felt it was more fun to play house with Sean (her boss) than reconcile with her husband which is after she'd already slept with Jimmy, not even a month into their marriage. That's got to sting.

Did it justify bellowing The F Word at his wife in front of a bar full of people? Maybe not. But it was still really crappy on Fiona's part.

The whole reason Fiona still had the engagement ring, in Season 6, is because she hadn't seen or contacted Gus and had no intent on returning the ring until she was summarily shamed for it.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

On 11/8/2016 at 11:43 AM, NorthstarATL said:

The show seems to forget that Ian bottomed for Caleb

When did this happen? I don't remember this!..

[NorthstarATL]

5 hours ago, DOBABYR said:

When did this happen? I don't remember this!..

The first time they were together, they negotiated the positioning. I remember it because it was a huge change in how Ian had been portrayed up until then.

[Dee]

Shameless never specifies who bottomed in Caleb and Ian's relationship.

Caleb asks Ian what position he prefers at the firefighter/cop softball game, which Ian assumes is code for sex, since he'd gone looking to hook-up with Caleb, but amusingly comes to realize Caleb is solely referring to softball positions.

That's the full extent of their sexual discussion (outside of the stuff surrounding Caleb's HIV status).

[40Love]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Shameless never specifies who bottomed in Caleb and Ian's relationship.

Caleb asks Ian what position he prefers at the firefighter/cop softball game, which Ian assumes is code for sex, since he'd gone looking to hook-up with Caleb, but amusingly comes to realize Caleb is solely referring to softball positions.

That's the full extent of their sexual discussion (outside of the stuff surrounding Caleb's HIV status).

I think you're correct.. IIRC it was that baseball conversation that sounded kind of like a negotiation...but, wasn't really specific. I believe Caleb says something like "Have you ever played catcher?" and Ian says something like "No, not really but we can talk about it". 

[Dee]

Yep. That's close to the gist of it.

The full exchange is as follows:

Quote

Caleb: "You ever pitch?"

Ian: "Usually, but I'm open, depending on what you're into. Where we doing this?"

Caleb: "Follow me."

Ian: "Wait, we're actually playing softball?"

Caleb: "Yeah, what'd you think? Zach usually starts on the mound, but if he's had too many Coronas, his stuff is shit. You cover second. What? You play, right?"

Ian: "Oh, sure, I play."

Other than that misinterpreted exchange, their all too brief love scene, Caleb's HIV revelation/Ian's HIV test, and a few kisses, their sex life is essentially glossed over.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Dee

[Marley]

Who actually writes this show, because I feel like it's ppl that don't live in the real world. How they have the characters react to things, and what the characters know and don't know is idiotic.

I don't know if I can keep watching, but I probably will lol.

[Gulftastic]

On 14/11/2016 at 7:41 AM, Marley said:

 

I don't know if I can keep watching, but I probably will lol.

Me too. They've Smallvilled my ass now. I'm in it till the bitter end, however ludicrous it gets.

[kieyra]

I guess just popping in to say I'm glad they actually hired a trans actor to play Trevor. As hamfisted as this show can be with some things, I fully expected the opposite when I looked up the actor's name.

And Debbie is now actually more irritating to spend time with than Frank. They might as well go ahead and make her a full-on antagonist like Sammi now.

Edited August 25, 2017 by kieyra