S07.E06: The Defenestration of Frank

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Fiona sees opportunity in a laundromat for sale and decides to invest. Frank revels in the good fortune of his scam, but the troops catch a whiff of foul play. Meanwhile, Kev and V discover a shocking secret about Svetlana's father.

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Clips:

 

[answerphone]

I don't think there was as much dark humor tonight, and I miss that. Carl, who has been in prison, is now worried about being hazed? Fiona can quickly score an $80k loan? And I think this one was rated "X".

[Dee]

The show is trash. And not in a good way.

This seriously needs to be its last season.

[whiporee]

The bed conversation was priceless. Carl's departure and the kicker were also pretty good.

I think Lip had a point to Fiona, who jumped in without knowing anything about what she was doing. And as much as I usually defend her, I think he showed a lot of class by not throwing shit back into her face. She has done plenty equally disappointing than losing a grant and a scholarship, if not plenty more.  And I'm not totally convinced she wasn't played by the old woman, but I guess we'll see soon enough. 

Deb's speech was pretty good, and to be fair, both she and Frank (gasp) made good points. Dude's likely to live a long time. 

Svet and Yvon ... I don't know except she looked hot. 

Can't complain about this one. Not brilliant, but not bad, either. 

[Armchair Critic]

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

I'm not totally convinced she wasn't played by the old woman

I was thinking the same thing, the old lady might not even have the authority to sell the place.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Damn, Fiona. Yes, the house is in her name but that doesn't give her the right to take out a loan without discussing it with the rest of the family first. I'm all for Fiona getting her shit together and having goals so that she isn't waiting tables for the rest of her life, but that was not cool at all.

Although I think Carl will be just fine in military school (especially if that tag is any indication), but I think it was realistic for him to be worried about hazing and everything else involved in it because he has lost a lot of his childish swagger (which is a good thing). He is questioning who he is and who he will become, which is the whole reason he is going to military school. I liked that he admitted he knows he isn't good at school or sports. Part of figuring out who you are is also figuring out who you are not. Between that and leaving the neighborhood behind to go into a new and unknown environment, it makes sense that he was getting anxious about what his new school would entail.

Loved that his farewell present from Dominique's dad was taking him to see Dom and her latest boyfriend to make sure that he would actually leave for military school. Teenagers make a lot of really dumb choices, especially about their relationships so I'm glad that he didn't abandon his idea to go to military school just because he thought he might get back together with her. How old is Carl supposed to be now? Still not old enough to drive, right? I'd rather see him leave and try to find a different path out of the neighborhood than to go the old tv stereotype way of being permanently attached to a girl he briefly dated as a 14 or 15 year old kid.

The whole Svetlana/Yvon storyline took quite a turn this week. You know things are getting weird when you're relieved that Yvon is "just" her husband, not her father.

Love that Frank's new "family" finally found out that he is horrible. If only they had told the original Gallaghers - they would have gladly helped throw him out of that window!

Edited November 7, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Tatum]

Wow, Fiona is really, really stupid. Her "financial consultant" tells her she needs to own something in order to make money, so she mortgages her only asset to buy...a lease. I will be very generous and assume it's a long term lease with a fixed rent amount and that she has made arrangements to pay the landlord directly, thus eliminating the possibility that the old lady pockets both the cash and the monthly rent that Fiona still has to pay, and the landlord forecloses anyways, but this is still not smart.

Fiona now has to pay a mortgage and rent, (assuming the $80,000 was really the price of the business as far as the old lady is concerned), and she has no idea the monthly cash flow of the place. Even if she can manage to make a profit, this is only good until the lease expires. Then Fiona is stuck with the remaining mortgage and no offsetting cash.

[dangwoodchucks]

I'm not even sure what Fiona was making a deal with Etta for, the building or the business? What an idiot to put the house up, as well as not even have anyone check out the condition of things before buying.

Does military school start in the summer or have we jumped to fall? Fiona buying an AC makes me think it's still hot, so it's still summer and they just needed to wrap up Carl's storyline quickly? Bye Dominique, just another character thrown by the wayside after being trashed for plot purposes. They couldn't even let the storyline flow logically, one episode she can't wait to give Carl head and the next she won't talk to him. Stupid writers.

I really don't like those outfits the waitresses wear at Patsy's, I think it's the suspenders that bug me.

I could have done without seeing Lip laying there with his chin still soaking wet from Sierra's squirting. Wipe your face man.

Frank's defenestration wasn't as fulfilling as I had hoped it would be. He's a damn cockroach. Fiona is down two tenants at her place, maybe he could rent a room from her, if he has the money.

Edited November 7, 2016 by dangwoodchucks

[FiveByFive]

9 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

Bye Dominique, just another character thrown by the wayside after being trashed for plot purposes. They couldn't even let the storyline flow logically, one episode she can't wait to give Carl head and the next she won't talk to him. Stupid writers.

I vaguely recall being a teenager and that's kinda' how it works. The girls who were your best friends one day hate you the next. One minute someone is dating Ryan and the next Scott. Sort of like Carl not taking the long view and realizing that Dominique's implication that she'd get back with him really doesn't mean a damn thing. He was willing to throw away the idea of going to military school after all the trouble he went through just for the idea that he might actually get back with her.

I moved across the country because a guy said he liked me when I was 17. Kids do that stuff.

[Dee]

So Fiona can demand everyone pay to live in the house yet she can volunteer the house as collateral without so much as a family meeting? How does that work?

Quote

Bye Dominique, just another character thrown by the wayside after being trashed for plot purposes. They couldn't even let the storyline flow logically, one episode she can't wait to give Carl head and the next she won't talk to him. Stupid writers.

Exactly! I'm sure Shameless already has a melanin free young actress all lined to be Carl's "True Love."

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dee

[Broderbits]

Re: Dominique

    Carl was so smitten with her and pursued her so doggedly that I'm sure she really enjoyed having this power over him. Makes sense to me that she would try it with other guys but still like pulling Carl's strings. She was obviously pissed that he was hanging out with her dad, what better way to strike at them both than to ruin their plan for Carl's future. After all, her name IS Dom.

As to characters being trashed, isn't that the basic plot of this series? Everyone gets trashed, sooner or later.

[Tatum]

23 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

I'm not even sure what Fiona was making a deal with Etta for, the building or the business? What an idiot to put the house up, as well as not even have anyone check out the condition of things before buying.

From what I understood, the woman rented out the building (including an upstairs apartment) from a landlord. The landlord was interested in selling the building to the "suits", but could not do so as long as the woman's lease was active. The Suits were basically just offering her money to go away and agree to an early termination of lease. The woman was fine to walk away from the laundromat, but wanted to keep her apartment, likely because she had too many cats for a new apartment building.

So, really, all Fiona is doing with her $80K is running the laundromat for the duration of the lease, while the lady lives upstairs for free. She does not own the building. She'll get to keep the profits, but that assumes there are any. She still has to pay rent to the landlord, she has her mortgage payment on the $80K, plus all the other standard expenses- utilities, machine repairs, etc., of which she has no idea what they are.

On top of that- once the lease terminates, the owner of the building will not renew her lease if he or she still wants to sell, so this business venture is on borrowed time anyways. She can take her existing business and try and open up a new laundromat, but then she has to pay the start up costs all over again. Plus she'll still be paying her $80K mortgage.

[LuciaMia]

Couldn't  decide which Dickensian character Frank was in this episode.  Fagin from 'Oliver Twist' or Squeers from 'Nicholas Nickleby'.

Really glad that Frank got the boot. Was afraid the show was trying to turn him into some local folk hero. 

But why are they turning Kev and V into such cartoonish figures? In the first couple of seasons, if Kev had initially come across that scene in his bedroom, he just would have barged in with a "What the fuck?"   Instead of all that silly, furtive sleuthing.

[heatherchandler]

15 minutes ago, Tatum said:

From what I understood, the woman rented out the building (including an upstairs apartment) from a landlord. The landlord was interested in selling the building to the "suits", but could not do so as long as the woman's lease was active. The Suits were basically just offering her money to go away and agree to an early termination of lease. The woman was fine to walk away from the laundromat, but wanted to keep her apartment, likely because she had too many cats for a new apartment building.

So, really, all Fiona is doing with her $80K is running the laundromat for the duration of the lease, while the lady lives upstairs for free. She does not own the building. She'll get to keep the profits, but that assumes there are any. She still has to pay rent to the landlord, she has her mortgage payment on the $80K, plus all the other standard expenses- utilities, machine repairs, etc., of which she has no idea what they are.

On top of that- once the lease terminates, the owner of the building will not renew her lease if he or she still wants to sell, so this business venture is on borrowed time anyways. She can take her existing business and try and open up a new laundromat, but then she has to pay the start up costs all over again. Plus she'll still be paying her $80K mortgage.

The older lady is not renting, she owns.  They kept talking about her "selling" the laundrymat and apartment to the suits for $100,000, so she definitely owns it.  Fiona actually clarified, and asked if she owns the whole building, and she said, no just the laundrymat and the upstairs apartment. 

Fiona now owns the laundrymat and the apartment. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by heatherchandler

[Dee]

11 minutes ago, LuciaMia said:

But why are they turning Kev and V into such cartoonish figures?

To keep Svet's true loyalties questionable and to make Kev/Vee "grateful" to Fiona if/when she decides to help them extricate themselves from Svet and/or Yvon imo.

[iMonrey]

Well now I'm confused about just what Fiona is buying, but whatever. You know it won't go well, that's just how the show works. 

I'm just glad the homeless shelter nonsense is over (hopefully). I'm so over Frank's shenanigans. 

It's amazing how far Carl has come from the vaguely sociopathic pyromaniac he was back in Season 1. He may turn out the best of all of them.

I could have done without the side plot with Sierra's ejaculations, frankly. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

The older lady is not renting, she owns.  They kept talking about her "selling" the laundrymat and apartment to the suits for $100,000, so she definitely owns it.  Fiona actually clarified, and asked if she owns the whole building, and she said, no just the laundrymat and the upstairs apartment. 

Fiona now owns the laundrymat and the apartment. 

Didn't she say in the previous episode they offered to buy out her lease? I haven't watched last night's episode so maybe the writers changed it, but the the episode last week, the lady definitely said "lease".

If she owns the building, that's better, at least then she can sell it if she has to, and probably for a profit, with all the urban renewal.

[abstractstuff]

She said last night the lease was up in 8 years.

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

She said last night the lease was up in 8 years.

Wow, so assuming it is the lease/business she bought, and not the building, Fiona only has 8 years to make back her $80,000 plus interest. So, approximately $111K. After taxes. Good luck Fiona.

[tvsoothesthespirit]

Yes, Fiona did buy the lease.

Her thinking, I guess, is that she can run the place at a profit for those 8 years, then renegotiate the lease or move on. Maybe she thinks she will be a multiple property owner by then. If she could afford it, It would have been better to use that money to buy some dilapidated property and just hold on to it until a buyer comes along.

I'm a little concerned that the not very nice little old lady may have sold her lease to several parties. She'll pocket the money, leave the cats behind and Fiona will owe monthly payments on $80,000 to the bank. Hope the diner continues to do well.

[LuciaMia]

Quote

little old lady may have sold her lease to several parties

I think if that turns out to be the case, it'll be due  more to senility. Notice the way she hesitated when Fiona started talking about buying the business again. And she was quite defensive when Fiona asked if she remembered what they talked about yesterday. "Of course I remember!!"

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Didn't she say in the previous episode they offered to buy out her lease? I haven't watched last night's episode so maybe the writers changed it, but the the episode last week, the lady definitely said "lease".

If she owns the building, that's better, at least then she can sell it if she has to, and probably for a profit, with all the urban renewal.

 

1 hour ago, abstractstuff said:

She said last night the lease was up in 8 years.

I believe (and I could be incorrect) that the lease pertained to the apartment.  She did say that she owns the laundrymat. 

There would be no reason for the suits to pay her $100,000 for a lease.  Right?

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I believe (and I could be incorrect) that the lease pertained to the apartment.  She did say that she owns the laundrymat. 

There would be no reason for the suits to pay her $100,000 for a lease.  Right?

Yes, because the landlord can't sell the apartment when he has a tenant on a remaining lease. They can either wait out the 8 years or give her a cash incentive to terminate.

 

ETA- when she says she owns the laundrymat, she means she owns the business. The real estate is separate. Most operating companies (restaurants, retail stores, hair salons, etc) don't actually own the buildings itself. I would say 90% of the companies I see (I do commercial real estate finance) are real estate holding companies that lease space to operating companies. It is pretty rare to own both, at least in my world.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Tatum

[heatherchandler]

31 minutes ago, tvsoothesthespirit said:

Yes, Fiona did buy the lease.

Her thinking, I guess, is that she can run the place at a profit for those 8 years, then renegotiate the lease or move on. Maybe she thinks she will be a multiple property owner by then. If she could afford it, It would have been better to use that money to buy some dilapidated property and just hold on to it until a buyer comes along.

I'm a little concerned that the not very nice little old lady may have sold her lease to several parties. She'll pocket the money, leave the cats behind and Fiona will owe monthly payments on $80,000 to the bank. Hope the diner continues to do well.

I don't believe a bank will loan you money to buy a lease. 

Also - I know I am supposed to just enjoy this show and not think of how this would work in the real world, but I am 100% sure that if a bank loans you money to buy something, they are certain that the person selling it CAN sell it.  Maybe that happened a long time ago, but not in 2016!  Like, they don't just hand a single piece of paper to the buyer and tell them to get the signature. 

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I don't believe a bank will loan you money to buy a lease. 

Also - I know I am supposed to just enjoy this show and not think of how this would work in the real world, but I am 100% sure that if a bank loans you money to buy something, they are certain that the person selling it CAN sell it.  Maybe that happened a long time ago, but not in 2016!  Like, they don't just hand a single piece of paper to the buyer and tell them to get the signature. 

Fiona leveraged her house. She didn't use the lease as collateral.

 

ETA: When you own an asset (like a house) free and clear, some banks will do a cash out refinance, and give you up to 80% of the asset value. You can use that money for anything you want. If she fails to make payments, they will repossess her house, not the lease to the commercial building.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Tatum

[tvsoothesthespirit]

Quote

I don't believe a bank will loan you money to buy a lease. 

Also - I know I am supposed to just enjoy this show and not think of how this would work in the real world, but I am 100% sure that if a bank loans you money to buy something, they are certain that the person selling it CAN sell it.  Maybe that happened a long time ago, but not in 2016!  Like, they don't just hand a single piece of paper to the buyer and tell them to get the signature. 

 

I think because she didn't get a mortgage loan but what sounds like a second mortgage on the house with cash back or a personal loan guaranteed by the house, she wouldn't have the backing of all the legal protection involved in getting a mortgage. You are completely correct, though, that piece was badly explained.

A bank will loan people (I don't know about Fiona in particular) money to buy a business that include all of the business property, in this case all of the laundromat equipment, and the lease that allows the business to operate on that site. That would be a mortgage and it seems like it would have the due diligence you talked about.

Either way, not explained well. Imho, it's just a device to get us from point A (Fiona tries to become financially independent) and Point B (Fiona loses the house and chaos prevails).

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, tvsoothesthespirit said:

 

I think because she didn't get a mortgage loan but what sounds like a second mortgage on the house with cash back or a personal loan guaranteed by the house, she wouldn't have the backing of all the legal protection involved in getting a mortgage. You are completely correct, though, that piece was badly explained.

A bank will loan people (I don't know about Fiona in particular) money to buy a business that include all of the business property, in this case all of the laundromat equipment, and the lease that allows the business to operate on that site. That would be a mortgage and it seems like it would have the due diligence you talked about.

Either way, not explained well. Imho, it's just a device to get us from point A (Fiona tries to become financially independent) and Point B (Fiona loses the house and chaos prevails).

 

If Fiona had requested a business loan to purchase the commercial building and the laundromats, yes, they would have requested she put 20% down, then also ordered title insurance to ensure a 1st lien position on the property. The lease payment to the landlord is part of the operating expenses and is not a part of the loan. The bank would also look at the financials of the laundromat to determine that the business model was profitable enough to make the loan payments. In short, the bank would have done infinite more research than Fiona did.

 

In the case of her personal residence cash out refinance, banks vary. Some will say as long as they have a hook on the house, they don't care what you do with the money. The ones I work for would not just hand her a blank check, but some will. For some banks, if Fiona wanted to take that $80K and travel around the world with it, that's fine, as long she makes her monthly payments. This show is super unrealistic, but Fiona's ability to get $80K for putting up the house as collateral is actually not that farfetched.

[whiporee]

Fiona could turn the place tomorrow for a 20K profit, and the lease has real value. She could wait two or three years as gentrification increases and make even more.  It's not a terrible investment. She's also got potential money in the machines, even if the overall business didn't pay off. If she's got 20 machines averaging 5 an hour for 16 hour days , that's 1600 or so a day, that's 48k revenue a month. P&I on 80 would probably  be 1500 on the high side ... I'm obviously not running numbers, but if she can increase traffic, the numbers sort of work. 

But it's going to play out like this: the place is going he to cost her more than she can afford, and in order to save the house, she's going to have to sell the lease and kick the old lady out, therefore costing her more of her soul.  Probably after a heart to heart with Sharon Lawrence.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by whiporee

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, whiporee said:

Fiona could turn the place tomorrow for a 20K profit, and the lease gas real value. She could wait two or three years as gentrification increases and make even more.  It's not a terrible investment...

...she's going to have to sell the lease and kick the old lady out, therefore costing her more of her soul.  Probably after a heart to heart with Sharon Lawrence.  

That's the rub. Selling the lease to the suits would be an easy way to make money back, but super unethical, considering the lady was willing to sell her business at a $20K discount solely because Fiona told her she could stay there throughout the term of the lease (I'm assuming).

A quick googling of laundromat financials say that on average, expenses are 65% to 115% of revenues. Utilities are expensive, machines are constantly breaking down, and while it doesn't need the constant presence of a manager, you do need someone there at times to clean the place and change out the machines. And if you do turn a profit- well, plan on handing about 30% of that over to the IRS.  On top of all the regular expenses (including rent) Fiona has to pay a mortgage of approximately $400-500 a month (assuming 360 month amortization).

It's not impossible that Fiona turns a profit, but her best chance of making money involves going back on her word to an elderly lady.

[sazzat]

Can we talk about Kev and Vee and their attack of the stupids? Kev has always been a dumbass, but Vee? Bad enough they've been letting someone they thought was an abusive pedophile around their kids. When you catch your wife having sex with someone she brought into your household as her father (and you've been housing under those false pretenses) and she then explains that he's instead her secret husband, how do you not have a freakout at the multiple levels of betrayal there? So she's not really married to Vee, she was making plans to adopt their children based on a lie, she secretly brought a fourth into their relationship, she offered no explanation or justification, even a weak one...and she's still around in next week's show? Besides scamming them, what reason could they possibly think she has for this? 

I also don't get why Svetlana would be so stupid as to get caught, unless getting caught is somehow part of a long con, but I can't see how since if Kev and Vee hadn't been replaced by pod people they would have tossed her out; how could she count on staying around?

Logistically, did she marry this guy when she was still in Russia (or the Ukraine, since that was originally where she was from until this year)? Because I thought she was trafficked as a teenager and had been in the states for awhile. This would additionally mean her marriage to Mickey was invalid.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 the lady was willing to sell her business at a $20K discount solely because Fiona told her she could stay there throughout the term of the lease 

Actually, no, she didn't seem to remember the "northside suits" offered her $100K. When Fiona said she could offer 80K she probably expected to negotiate since she couldn't match the price but fortunately for her, the lady forgot the other offer and thought 80K was a good deal. 

Quote

When you catch your wife having sex with someone she brought into your household as her father (and you've been housing under those false pretenses) and she then explains that he's instead her secret husband, how do you not have a freakout at the multiple levels of betrayal there?

Well that didn't happen until the end of the show, so hopefully this will be dealt with next week. But I agree at this point the only recourse is to kick Svetlana out on her ear. Although Kev and Vee probably need her business savvy more than they need the whole marriage thing. They only did that because she was going to be deported. 

[Tatum]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Actually, no, she didn't seem to remember the "northside suits" offered her $100K. When Fiona said she could offer 80K she probably expected to negotiate since she couldn't match the price but fortunately for her, the lady forgot the other offer and thought 80K was a good deal. 

Well that didn't happen until the end of the show, so hopefully this will be dealt with next week. But I agree at this point the only recourse is to kick Svetlana out on her ear. Although Kev and Vee probably need her business savvy more than they need the whole marriage thing. They only did that because she was going to be deported. 

But part of Fiona's offer was so the lady could continue to occupy the apartment right? So would be super shady to sell the lease back to the suits. It's already kind of shady anyways seeing as how this lady doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders to make financial decisions anyways. 

[sazzat]

Not that an adoption for tax reasons made sense either, or the explanation of how Svetlana could get a quickie divorce from Mickey and remarry Vee without it being super obvious to the INS that these were phony marriages, and now I'm the Geico lady saying "That's not how any of this works!", but even if I married my husband out of convenience I'd be kicking him out if I found out that the marriage was bigamous and that he'd tried to base an adoption of my kids on it. In terms of building to a dramatic point, the timing is off to show no reaction this week and save it for next, and judging by the previews, Svetlana is trying to get back in their good graces by making them think she's eliminated the husband, which...no. There's no way back from this unless Kev and Vee have both been lobotomized.

Ian and Trevor are problematic, and I feel bad for saying that being that the actor (Elliott Fletcher) does just fine with what he's given and will hopefully benefit from the exposure. It's just that every conversation these characters have been shown to have since Ian found out Trevor is a trans man has been focused on Trevor explaining some aspect of trans existence, and it's just too many teachable moments for me.  That Ian would have a traumatic experience at work and run to Trevor's because "you're the only one I wanted to tell" asks for us to believe in an emotional intimacy that hasn't been established because their screen time has primarily been those teachable moments with Ian asking questions so that the audience learns a lesson. In two episodes, the show has actually referenced them spending a decent amount of time together, but it's very hard to tell how much time has actually passed, and Trevor's impatience with Ian and dismissal of a friendship (saying he has plenty of friends) seems unfair because it pushes Ian to sort out some complicated feelings in what seems like a few days. If they could be shown to have some actual conversations that build closeness, it would help us understand their connection. And for Trevor to tell Ian that his genitals are no big deal and give him zero information on how he gets off during sex, when Trevor has really specific expectations of what he wants, makes his frustration with Ian's confusion even less sympathetic. If the show continues to imply that it's somehow bigoted to be affected by your partner's genitalia, yikes is that some crazy oversimplification.

[Chas411]

Has Carl left the show?

[sazzat]

35 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Has Carl left the show?

I don't think so. Maybe for a few episodes, but I think if he'd left we'd be seeing other cast members giving him a public sendoff, thanking him, etc.

Not a terrible thing to have him gone IMO -- not that I wouldn't much rather see Frank go, but the show is overcrowded and could use some breathing room. They're cramming seven plotlines per week into an hour-long show and the storytelling suffers.

[Empress1]

19 hours ago, whiporee said:

I think Lip had a point to Fiona, who jumped in without knowing anything about what she was doing. And as much as I usually defend her, I think he showed a lot of class by not throwing shit back into her face. She has done plenty equally disappointing than losing a grant and a scholarship, if not plenty more.  And I'm not totally convinced she wasn't played by the old woman, but I guess we'll see soon enough. 

He definitely had a point. She has no idea what she's doing. She's smart but impulsive. She bought a business that she knows nothing about because some dude she fucked off Tinder told her owning something would be a good idea. He's not wrong, but she didn't do any research and if she loses the business they're out on the street - all of them. And he could easily have shot back "No, like 'fucking your boss's brother and leaving out a gram of coke for our kid brother to OD on' huge." Lip can go back to school; Fiona's a felon forever. 

Military school is the best thing that could happen to Carl, and good for him for realizing it. He's right, he needs some direction. God knows he's not going to get any at home. What they say about kids needing structure and discipline is true, and Carl more than any of them has been screaming out for it.

2 hours ago, sazzat said:

Can we talk about Kev and Vee and their attack of the stupids? Kev has always been a dumbass, but Vee? Bad enough they've been letting someone they thought was an abusive pedophile around their kids. When you catch your wife having sex with someone she brought into your household as her father (and you've been housing under those false pretenses) and she then explains that he's instead her secret husband, how do you not have a freakout at the multiple levels of betrayal there? So she's not really married to Vee, she was making plans to adopt their children based on a lie, she secretly brought a fourth into their relationship, she offered no explanation or justification, even a weak one...and she's still around in next week's show? Besides scamming them, what reason could they possibly think she has for this? 

I also don't get why Svetlana would be so stupid as to get caught, unless getting caught is somehow part of a long con, but I can't see how since if Kev and Vee hadn't been replaced by pod people they would have tossed her out; how could she count on staying around?

Logistically, did she marry this guy when she was still in Russia (or the Ukraine, since that was originally where she was from until this year)? Because I thought she was trafficked as a teenager and had been in the states for awhile. This would additionally mean her marriage to Mickey was invalid.

I can't with them. It's ridiculous.

[LCanterbury]

I have wondered whether Debbie's fiancé is pulling a long "slow-Donnie" type con but that's probably too low and far-fetched even for Shameless (although: Frank).

I guess Lip has to find another way to scam the big guys now. I think the only useful thing about Frank now is to provide the parallels of his personality to Lip's 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

Does military school start in the summer or have we jumped to fall? Fiona buying an AC makes me think it's still hot, so it's still summer and they just needed to wrap up Carl's storyline quickly?

This season aired earlier than it was supposed to due to an issue with Homeland, which is one reason why the timeline is confusing (as it always is on this show). The most concrete thing we got was in the season premiere when we found out that Frank had been in a coma for a month so we know how much time has passed since the end of last season/Franny's birth/Fiona's wedding but not how much time has passed in the six episodes of this season. I would guess that it's supposed to take place in the summer due to the wardrobe (a lot of tank tops and shorts on both the male and female characters).

The only thing that doesn't fit the summer timeline is that at the beginning of the season, Debbie went to school and told the other teen moms that she had a night nurse. I guess they could have all been in summer school or maybe it was near the end of spring semester? Now that none of the Gallaghers are in school anymore, it's hard to tell if it's spring, summer, or fall. Lip got kicked out, Ian is working, and Debbie isn't in school. Liam is in Head Start but that's year round. The only time I remember seeing Carl in school this season was when he was checking out the dicks at the urinal trough before he got circumcised. I can't figure out if his new military school has summer session or if they start their fall term in August. 

[Emily Thrace]

4 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Has Carl left the show?

I remember the reason Carl went to juvie was partly because the actor wanted to go to regular school so he was only around part of the season. I think military school was written in for the same reason.

[pfk505]

4 hours ago, sazzat said:

Not a terrible thing to have him gone IMO -- not that I wouldn't much rather see Frank go, but the show is overcrowded and could use some breathing room.

What? Carl has been the best character on the show for the past 3 seasons! I'm with you on Frank though.

[Gulftastic]

I thought Svetlana was a lesbian, and only went with men either through prostitution or feeling she had an obligation to perform 'wifely duties'?

Loved the slo-mo shot of Emmy Rossum to open the episode. She's so lovely.  Lip has a point about the house. She could at least have sat them down and explained what she wanted to do before going ahead.

Well done to Carl for recognising this was his chance to change his fate and then taking it. I hope we don't see him expelled in short order.

[NorthstarATL]

I liked the scene with Fiona, Lip, and Ian hanging out in her room. It felt real and funny and made them all more of a family than they'd been in a while. Then, of course, they had to ruin it with Fiona's purchase of the laundromat. Lip and Fiona both have points; it's THEIR home, and she's asked that they all contribute financially, but she IS, I believe, liable if they all bail, so the ultimate decision should be hers. For DRAMA'S sake, she couldn't ask for any of their feedback, and the show's history says that if Lip tells Fiona something is a bad idea, it will blow up in her face. Still and all, in real life the laundromat wouldn't be a bad investment. I think a case could/will be made that the woman is senile or has dementia and cannot enter into a contract. Then, again, the writers permitted Patsy's to be successful thus far. And, BTW, Lip works FOR Fiona, as, except for the theft, his intern gig is volunteer.

  

17 hours ago, sazzat said:

If the show continues to imply that it's somehow bigoted to be affected by your partner's genitalia, yikes is that some crazy oversimplification.

Yup! That's my problem with that as well. The show seems to forget that Ian bottomed for Caleb, so for that to be non-negotiable implies, to me, at least, tat this was all just after-school special. As you pointed out, there are plenty of people that Ian might have gone to after that woman's death who are far closer to him emotionally.

[LuciaMia]

Another Frank-characteristic thats gotten tiresome. His supposed indestructibility.  He's survived endless black-outs, many of them lying outside in the middle of a Chicago winter. Survived end-stage cirrhosis  and two major surgeries in one day. Came back from a month-long coma after being dumped into Lake Michigan. And now he's apparently fine after being thrown out of a second story window. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, NorthstarATL said:

I liked the scene with Fiona, Lip, and Ian hanging out in her room. It felt real and funny and made them all more of a family than they'd been in a while. Then, of course, they had to ruin it with Fiona's purchase of the laundromat. Lip and Fiona both have points; it's THEIR home, and she's asked that they all contribute financially, but she IS, I believe, liable if they all bail, so the ultimate decision should be hers.

She's not really liable for anything though other than the property taxes, which can't be more than $3,000 a year. Illinois property tax calculator actually estimates closer to $2,000 a year on a house with an appraised value of $100,000.  Fiona was given $100,000 by Carl to buy the house to keep the family together. He didn't buy it himself because he's a minor. She did try and get a mortgage on her own, which fell apart when her ex husband wouldn't sign off on it. So, she was given the money by Carl, and now she's using the fact that she's the title holder to force her sibs to pay her a monthly sum that was arbitrarily decided by her. Dirty pool, if you ask me.

 

1 hour ago, NorthstarATL said:

Still and all, in real life the laundromat wouldn't be a bad investment.

A laundromat could be a great investment, depending on many variables. Fiona didn't research any of the variables first. We already know many of the machines are in disrepair, and the woman's book keeping and bill paying abilities may have been compromised. Fiona might end up deep in the hole on day one paying past due utilities, machine repairs, and income taxes. She has fully leveraged her only asset and has NO room for any extraordinary costs.

 

ETA: I guess she could always go back and tell Old Lady she needs to pony up the cash for any operating expenses that have come up as the result of her negligence, or she will be forced to sell to the suits. I predict some catastrophe will happen, Fiona will agonize over selling the lease to the suits, and the old lady will die, thus relieving Fiona of her moral conundrum and making her $20K richer.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Tatum

[40Love]

On 11/7/2016 at 0:07 PM, Dee said:

So Fiona can demand everyone pay to live in the house yet she can volunteer the house as collateral without so much as a family meeting? How does that work?

Exactly! I'm sure Shameless already has a melanin free young actress all lined to be Carl's "True Love."

Well to be fair... plenty of melanin-free characters have been sacrificed/assassinated in the quest to keep the Gallagher clan from ever being happy and well-adjusted. From the first guy Fiona married... to the young lady who helped Lip his first semester in college... to the cutie who knocked-up Debbie, they all started out great and amazing... only to eventually be portrayed as weak/crazy/unreliable/petty/boring.  In this Shameless world, the Gallaghers will never be happy because the people they let into their lives and hearts are flawed. It's pretty cynical... and sad.

[Dee]

6 hours ago, Gulftastic said:

I thought Svetlana was a lesbian, and only went with men either through prostitution or feeling she had an obligation to perform 'wifely duties'?

Her lesbianism is plot dependent.

[whiporee]

3 hours ago, 40Love said:

From the first guy Fiona married... to the young lady who helped Lip his first semester in college

Gus was a child. And a trust fund child. That was obvious early. Fiona could/should have said no to his proposal, but jumping into marriage like he did is never a great sign. And when she told him about Jimmy (clearly a fuckup, but they do happen in marriages, especially when you barely know someone) he went running instead of doing what she asked and trying to fix things. Plus, Fuck You Fiona in public.  

Amanda was controlling a cheated on her boyfriend to be with Lip. She was a liar and someone who conspired to steal from her parents, whom she didn't respect or appreciate.  

I don't think either character was destroyed in order to make either Lip or Fiona look or better. They both ended up what and who they were all along. 

As for Debbie's baby daddy -- he did have sex with her, and he did let his parents send him away. I don't think there's character assassination there, either. 

[heatherchandler]

On 11/7/2016 at 8:13 PM, LCanterbury said:

I have wondered whether Debbie's fiancé is pulling a long "slow-Donnie" type con but that's probably too low and far-fetched even for Shameless (although: Frank).

Chicken pot chicken pot chicken pot piiiiie! 

I think he's legitimately brain damaged, but I guess with this show you never know.

[40Love]

16 hours ago, whiporee said:

Gus was a child. And a trust fund child. That was obvious early. Fiona could/should have said no to his proposal, but jumping into marriage like he did is never a great sign. And when she told him about Jimmy (clearly a fuckup, but they do happen in marriages, especially when you barely know someone) he went running instead of doing what she asked and trying to fix things. Plus, Fuck You Fiona in public.  

Amanda was controlling a cheated on her boyfriend to be with Lip. She was a liar and someone who conspired to steal from her parents, whom she didn't respect or appreciate.  

I don't think either character was destroyed in order to make either Lip or Fiona look or better. They both ended up what and who they were all along. 

As for Debbie's baby daddy -- he did have sex with her, and he did let his parents send him away. I don't think there's character assassination there, either. 

I see your points... But, from my perspective Gus started out as such a nice guy... leveled-headed, even-tempered, decent. The kind of guy you might seriously think about marrying. Yes, Fiona didn't have to accept the proposal. But, she did. He had every expectation that she would hold up her end of the promise. She didn't... and then Gus was no longer the nice, level-headed, decent guy. He became a mean-spirited and petty child, singing FYF.  

Yes, Amanda cheated on her "boyfriend" with Lip, which the roommate didn't seem that broken up about. She had parent issues... but, at the beginning of that relationship she seemed like a stable force when it came to encouraging Lip to stay in school and helping Lip see the other possibilities in life. To me, she seemed to fit great with Lip and his crazy level of ethics. They seemed to really be on the same page. Then she turned into a clingy, crazy stalker.

I agree Debbie's baby-daddy... may not totally fit the bill. She told him she had protection... then herself became the crazy stalker. I just thought at the beginning of their budding friendship and then romantic relationship, he seemed like the perfect guy... liking Debbie for herself. It was her first shot at a normal, age-appropriate relationship. So I was really disappointed it turned into the story that it did. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, 40Love said:

I see your points... But, from my perspective Gus started out as such a nice guy... leveled-headed, even-tempered, decent. The kind of guy you might seriously think about marrying. Yes, Fiona didn't have to accept the proposal. But, she did. He had every expectation that she would hold up her end of the promise. She didn't... and then Gus was no longer the nice, level-headed, decent guy. He became a mean-spirited and petty child, singing FYF.  

 

I agree Gus started out as a nice guy. And it was never really explained what happened between seasons, but I got the impression at the end of season 5 that he and Fiona were going to reconcile, after Sean told Fiona that they would not make each other happy and she should stay with Gus. Then, at the beginning of season 6, Sean and Fiona are a serious couple. So, although the writers left it vague, I got the impression that the timeline went like this: Fiona cheats on Gus with Jimmy, and confesses. Gus says he needs to think things over away from her and goes on tour. Gus comes back and asks Fiona to reconcile. Fiona hedges on Gus because she'd rather be with Sean, but wants Gus waiting in the wings in case Sean turns her down. Sean does turn her down. Off camera (the hiatus between seasons) Fiona and Gus reconcile. Sean then has a change of heart and tells Fiona he wants to be with her. Fiona ditches Gus because Sean was her first choice anyways. Gus has now been abandoned in addition to being cheated on. I can see why he was pretty fucking pissed. He went way over the line, but Fiona hosed him twice, first by cheating on him, then promising to work it out only to ditch him when something better came along.