S02.E06: Monster

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

During an investigation, Lucifer and Chloe clash, so she partners up with Dan instead. Meanwhile, Amenadiel and Charlotte bond, and Maze takes Trixie trick-or-treating for Halloween.

[ProudMary]

I would tune in for an entire episode of Maze and Trixie trick-or-treating!  That sounds great!

[Gigi43]

Yeah, if any (older) kids try to knock my door for candy while Maze and Trixie are trck or treating, they're going to be out of luck. 

 

I do hope we get Luci bitching about bad Devil costumes at some point.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Gigi43

[Mabinogia]

I live for Maze and Trixie trick or treating. This could be as epic as girls night.

[hoopznyo]

I wonder if they will have Maze wear her "true" face as a costume.

[CheshireCat]

8 hours ago, hoopznyo said:

I wonder if they will have Maze wear her "true" face as a costume.

I would be surprised if they did since, up until now, divinity has driven people insane. Now, Maze certainly isn't divine in itself but she belongs in that category.

[Primetimer]

A pivotal episode in the series shows how much the Prince of Darkness relies on the women in his life to guide him and comfort him -- and what the fallout is when he ignored one and let himself be manipulated by another.

View the full article

[storyskip]

There is so much in this episode WOW!

But I just have to shout out that IMO we heard from Dad!!!!!!!!!!

Okay just a bit more.

She may not have been bringing the MENACE but wow, Mom's manipulation was masterful tonight.  Also to those who have read the comics ... oh look a TREE.

It goes without saying that I loved Maze with Trixie.  Maze helping Trixie dress up how she wanted. I know that Trixie just easily accepting Maze's true form was a telegraphed a mile away and a side of cheesy but I still loved it.  

Speaking of true forms ... Lucifer to Dr. Linda.  I'm on board for next week to see how that pans out!

Edited November 1, 2016 by storyskip

[Gigi43]

The "homeless magician" quip, sex swing and how the Mars costume was made up were delightful.

 

Then that ending. This show is entertainment whiplash and I'm not complaining. 

 

However... I don't understand Uriel having a body at all. What?!

[flyingdi]

Dr. Loomis? Romero?  In the Halloween episode, really?

[Yokosmom]

Well, I knew that Luci would show his true form to someone close to him sooner or later (not counting Chloe's brief glimpse), but I didn't think that it would be Dr. Linda.  She's going to take a while to process it, I think, but I hope that she is able to continue as his therapist.  I really love her character. Of course, she's now going to realize that Amendiel (sp?) is also an angel.  Did he ever tell her that?  He did tell her that Lucifer was his brother, right?

Quote

 I just have to shout out that IMO we heard from Dad!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I was playing games on my phone--what was the Dad shout out?  Agree that Mom is a master manipulator.  She wants to turn her children against Dad.

Quote

However... I don't understand Uriel having a body at all. What?!

Don't they all have physical bodies while on earth?  He didn't vanish in a puff of smoke when he died.

Lucifer and the other angels aren't used to death (of each other), so this is a new experience for them, perhaps.  And the fact that Uriel even had his soul destroyed as well makes it particularly horrible.  I'm assuming that if mom doesn't end up back in hell, that she may well get the pointy end of that sooner or later.

[CheshireCat]

I have mixed feelings about the episode - I really liked that they used the opportunity to bring out more of the "bad boy" Lucifer and the supernatural Lucifer. I also don't necessarily mind the intensity. However; I hope that we'll get some lighter ones again some time soon. I guess, not next week since they'll probably have to deal with the fallout of this episode but maybe afterwards.

I loved that they pushed the "who is Lucifer" story forward by him revealing himself to Dr Linda. I thought that Ella might be the first to find out simply because of her faith. It would have been interesting so see her faith tested - she believes but she's said herself she needs doubt to believe, so it would have been interesting to see how she'd deal with proof. But Dr Linda it is. I'm just wondering why everyone in S1 couldn't handle knowing about divinity and Amenadiel made such a big deal out of hiding it and Lucifer agreeing and now, Lucifer suddenly thinks he can show himself to a human. Maze and Trixie I get - Trixie's a child, she's got imagination and as long as she doesn't see Maze transform... Although she'd probably have found that cool, too, and would have had all sorts of questions. But Dr Linda is an adult. It'll be interesting to see where they go from there.

Something I've wondered today for the second time is if Mom and Dad could actually be one and the same entity. I'm unclear if the kids have actually ever seen Dad. Of course, that would mean that Dad/God was in Hell all those years... I'm just wondering because there are scenes in which it feels like Mom wants to right mistakes/a mistake and it sounds like Dad would have a lot to make up for/would have mistakes to right. Needless to say, I'm still intrigued by Mom and still haven't figured her out.

I thought Dan was a bit annoying in this episode - I get he doesn't like Lucifer and is suspicious of him but I thought he went a tad bit too far (at least before Lucifer punched him ;-))

And Lucifer almost made me cry during his last conversation with Chloe - he seemed so desperate and so desperate for someone to understand him and so desperate because he hates himself. And I don't think he just hates himself because he killed his brother but because he's still struggling with his devil self.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

There is a lot going on this season so far... felt like most of the real 'action' and mytharc plot didn't start until the last few episodes of the first season.  So I'm definitely liking the "all in" feel to this season.  Also feels like they can't put off Chloe's not knowing everything for too much longer now, what with the reveal to Dr Linda Martin and Maze living with Chloe & Trixie.

'Mom/Mum' has Lucifer & Amenadiel wrapped around her finger, playing them against 'Dad'. 

An aside to 'Mom', based on all episodes to date; I know that Tricia Helfer is a hot woman and as a hetero male, her sex appeal is on target [as always], (ETA and I also get that most of it is just played off for laughs).  But watching her character flaunt said sex appeal as L&A's mom - in their faces - is just a big all-wrapped-into-one-big-ball of weird, awkward and icky all at the same time.  I know, celestial beings are different, but seriously, taking your clothes off in front of your son?  Wearing provocative clothing and dancing provocatively when your son is just feet away?  Wearing mucho-cleavage revealing attire around with another son??  Watching a beautiful celebrity show off her goods, in such a manner, has actually managed to turn me off, so thanks for that, Show.

Weird not having Ella around tonight.  Gotten so used to her, odd not seeing her do her thing with the 'hip CSI' deal.

Edited November 1, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Sandman87]

I'm just worried that Lucifer might have broken Dr. Linda. She might have just as much trouble dealing with the revelation that the supernatural exists as with Lucifer being the Devil.

Yay, Maze did her skull face!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

This pertains to the last couple of episodes more than this one, but.........  I must have misheard or misunderstood somewhere along the way, but currently, I am confused.

Lucifer is said to be the very first angel created by God, right?  But recently on Lucifer, I've heard Amenadiel and/or someone else refer to A as the "oldest angel".  Unless they mean 'oldest after Lucifer was cast out', then ok, but weren't all the archangels created quite soon after Lucifer?  And Amenadiel is not an archangel, is he?

Again, a bit confused as to what has been said and/or meant by A as being referred to as the "oldest angel".

Edited November 1, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Jamoche]

"I'm also only a little disappointed the production company didn't splash out for the musical rights to "Thriller""

Sorry, no, Party City has ruined that for me.

[AlliMo]

Charlotte flaunting her sex appeal in front of her sons doesn't really bother me. Lucifer and Amenadiel are uncomfortable with it because they've been on earth for awhile now; Charlotte is basically still adjusting to the newness of having an actual body, much less with abiding by human social conventions.

Tom Ellis is marvelous at conveying Lucifer's pain and confusion. The look of resigned desolation on his face as he walked out of Dr. Linda's office just killed me.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This pertains to the last couple of episodes more than this one, but.........  I must have misheard or misunderstood somewhere along the way, but currently, I am confused.

Lucifer is said to be the very first angel created by God, right?  But recently on Lucifer, I've heard Amenadiel and/or someone else refer to A as the "oldest angel".  Unless they mean 'oldest after Lucifer was cast out', then ok, but weren't all the archangels created quite soon after Lucifer?  And Amenadiel is not an archangel, is he?

Again, a bit confused as to what has been said and/or meant by A as being referred to as the "oldest angel".

Lucifer takes place in a world with a differing celestial cosmology than our own.  What's "true" in our Bible isn't necessarily true in theirs and vice-versa.

[dwmarch]

Great episode! Last season had a bit too much emphasis on Palmetto and Dan and that other corrupt cop. I didn't really care all that much about those plots. This season is still fun (Trixie and Maze for the epic win!) but also more serious and it's actually working.

There was a great meaningful moment when Maze showed her real face to Trixie and Trixie's reaction was joy. Maze doesn't get that a lot I would imagine. Her reaction (a slight smile) was great and I like that she's bonding with someone who has so little in common with her.

However, I have to laugh at Trixie's concern that Maze wasn't wearing a costume. Let's see... skintight leather pants, a corset and over-the-knee boots. And Trixie thinks this is entirely normal. As much as she might like to be the President of Mars I think Trixie might end up being a dominatrix when she grows up.

I also loved that bit about Trixie's random costume and the confused guy who didn't know what to make of her. Maze's "she's the President of Mars, duh!" was gold!

I'm intrigued by Mom saying that she could get Amenadiel's powers back... along with hers. Doesn't she remember turning a mugger into salsa by chucking him into a brick wall? Does she mean to say she wishes to be more powerful than that?

Lucifer's actual face wasn't really that scary. Still human-shaped but slightly asymmetrical and missing skin. Plus red eyes. Not exactly the stuff of nightmares although seeing his normally handsome mug morph into that would be disconcerting I am sure.

If anyone was wondering about the song Luci played on the piano it was "Unforgiven" by Metallica. The music in this show continues to be on point.

[lorbeer]

1 hour ago, dwmarch said:

If anyone was wondering about the song Luci played on the piano it was "Unforgiven" by Metallica. The music in this show continues to be on point.

I was so thankyou for that :) I knew the song but I couldn't remember the title.

 

Wasn't it great? The president fo Mars - amazing :) And finally the story kicks off. I wonder what dr Linda will do about that.

Is there anybody else annoyed by Mommy? And why is she always 'half-naked'? I mean I'm all about hot wardrobe but for me it doesn't really suit the character like Maze e.g. She's hot nd she looks hot and she dresses hot. But with Mommy smth's not right.

I wonder now how does Amenadiel's real face look like :)

[Happy Harpy]

Lots of Trixie: Great episode ! Oh, and of course it was mostly thanks to T.Ellis' equally great performance.

Mom is so good at being...maybe not bad, but at advancing her personal agenda at least. "Blame me (it's Dad's fault)!" LOL. Masterful.

The parallel between Trixie's acceptance of Maze (her little relieved sigh was perfect. She does consider Trixie as a friend) and Dr Linda's shock was heartbreaking. Poor Lucifer.

I also loved Chloe covering both Trixie and Maze with the blanket. She looked genuinely happy and thankful that her daughter had a good moment, no matter that her rules of education were broken and no matter the differences she and Maze can have. Trixie's well-being is truly her first priority. I can see how Trixie can bring Chloe and Maze to become real friends.

And now I think that Maze might be the one who will reveal the truth to Chloe. Dr Linda's reaction might have changed Lucifer's mind on the matter whereas Maze proved again last week that she was able to take bold initiatives (going to Mom about Uriel) when she thinks it's necessary. In certain circumstances, I can see it happening.

Dan was a bit of a dick, which allowed me to laugh out loud when Lucifer punched him. But unless I missed an occurence, Luci dropped "detective Douche" in favor of "Daniel". Fanboys unite?

I'm OK with the slight change of tone so far, for this particular arc. But count me in those who don't want the show to lose its humorous flavor or its moments of levity. It can be serious at times, but it can't take itself too seriously. It would lose its balance and nothing would work anymore, imo.

[storyskip]

6 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This pertains to the last couple of episodes more than this one, but.........  I must have misheard or misunderstood somewhere along the way, but currently, I am confused.

Lucifer is said to be the very first angel created by God, right?  But recently on Lucifer, I've heard Amenadiel and/or someone else refer to A as the "oldest angel".  Unless they mean 'oldest after Lucifer was cast out', then ok, but weren't all the archangels created quite soon after Lucifer?  And Amenadiel is not an archangel, is he?

Again, a bit confused as to what has been said and/or meant by A as being referred to as the "oldest angel".

I don't think any of what I'm about to write is a spoiler from the comics. 

In the source material this is based off of the Archangels Michael and Samael are first and second born.  Michael first to create matter and Samael to mold it.  So the hierarchy is, Yahweh wanted creation so he created his firstborn Michael to create matter and his second born Samael to mold that matter to his will and bring the light of life into it.

So basically Michael and Samael did the heavy lifting. ;)

Samael could not mold that which was not created, so he was not a "Creator" he had to have that from his elder brother Michael.  But Samael was created deliberately WILLFUL in order to be powerful enough to bend and mold creation.  Thus you get the argument that Yahweh knew exactly what he was "creating" when he "birthed" the willful Samael.  

We haven't seen it mentioned since "Favorite Son" but "Lucifer" is technically his title.  Lucifer means "Lightbringer" which is Samael's title.  As he said when he left the Silver City, he renounced his 'name' and took on his title.

It's confusing that the showrunners have taken the Michael character and rolled him into "Amenadiel" (who is another character entirely) but there is no doubt in my mind on the show Amenadiel = Michael.

As for Dad, I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet so I'll circle back to it.  It is my OPINION (no fact here!) that we saw Dad all over this episode.  I don't think they will ever cast "Dad" as a character the way "Mom" was cast.  Instead, we saw Dad working through other people.  Think about it:

1)  When Lucifer ran into the one bar fly and spilled her drink.  He is disoriented at the time, obviously lost to his thoughts and goes "I'm sorry, so sorry" and Ellis's delivery is perfect because it's that combination of apology for the moment (spilled drink) and also an expression of the mantra he's probably been repeating to himself since he killed Uriel.   The bar fly, rather than being upset, gently and clearly tells him "It's okay, it wasn't your fault."

Given how subtle these show runners are, I don't believe they paid an extra for a line (hey that shit costs money!) and crafted that scene with the "stop look" way they did to catch the audience's attention, just for fun.  I fully believe that was "Dad" trying to send a message to Lucifer.  Think about it offset to the way "Mom" is manipulating Amenadiel, trying to gather and focus his anger and grief into a weapon she can use (AKA evil) vs "Dad" with unconditional forgiveness.  The juxtoposition being, Lucifer didn't "hear" his father because he wasn't listening/Dad wasn't right there in front of him and Amenadiel is "listening" too closely to "Mom" because she's right there in front of him.

2) The shooter.   All those missed shots.  Now granted the guy explains that he was just trying to scare Lucifer away so he could get to his intended target but he also says that he wasn't going to hurt Lucifer because it wasn't his fault.  It's not quite as clear cut as the bar scene but to me the message popped out in the conversation, that like when "Dad" put Father Frank in Lucifer's path, "Dad" intervened again.

ALSO it's a very little detail and hey, maybe it was just a blooper moment and they didn't have time/money to re-shoot but it struck me as interesting that when Chloe rolled up on the shooter, the guy went to swing his weapon towards her and his gun barrel got caught in the scaffolding.

There is a definitely editing in "tink/thunk" sound of the gun getting caught up and you see the shooter go from "fight" to "surrender" when it happens.

Like I said, maybe just a blooper but ... idk.  Dad interfering again, keeping Chloe safe?

[DEL901]

Loved Maze taking Trixie trick-or-treating.  I wonder how much money she raked in thanks to the Maze death stare?

And Tom Ellis is as wonderful at conveying Lucifer's pain as when he plays strictly for laughs.

Poor Dr. L.   I wonder if she'll go into denial when she snaps out of her daze?

[Boilergal]

Look a Swing!!!  hahahahaha

I half expected Trixie to be dressed as a little mini dominatrix - glad it was just the President of Mars.

I was just as excited as Trixie to see comic Maze show up!!!  

LOVED the-- looks like Daniel needs a Hug - 

I told Dr. L she didn't want to see the real him...she wouldn't listen to me - sigh   Do you think Chloe would have had the same reaction?   I think she would have been a little shocked, but not catatonic.  

@storyskip

Quote

struck me as interesting that when Chloe rolled up on the shooter, the guy went to swing his weapon towards her and his gun barrel got caught in the scaffolding.

I thought the same thing...divine intervention

Edited November 1, 2016 by Boilergal

[dippydee]

Maze and Trixie trick or treating was made of win! Hands down the best bit of the episode. I love how accepting they are of each other. Trixie doesn't even blink at all the weird stuff Maze has going on (her reaction to Maze's costume was perfect) and if Trixie wants to be President of Mars for Halloween Maze will make it happen with an awesome improvised costume.

I am so glad Dr Linda knows the truth. I was really ready for a human to be let in on the secret and I'm glad it's her. She's definitely having some trouble with it but I hope she doesn't bail on Lucifer. I can't wait to see the therapy sessions when she actually knows who 'Dad' is.

On a shallow note, disheveled and slightly rumpled homeless magician is a very very good look for Tom Ellis. He was looking particularly yummy this week.

[Inquiry]

Did anyone else notice that Chloe seemed on the verge of tears when she told Lucifer that if she wouldn't talk to him, he should talk to someone? I thought that was pretty interesting. I've felt like they've dialed back the Lucifer/Chloe pairing this season, but this episode seemed to be playing catch-up (although the moments were much more subtle than last season). Anyway, given Chloe's reaction, I'm wondering if Chloe's dad was killed in a similar manner (practically begging the shooter to kill him). Will freely admit that I could be completely misreading that scene. Hell, maybe Lauren Graham had the cold or something, but I thought I would at least throw it out there. 

[Featherhat]

I think Dr Linda will be okay and I liked that she was the first to really see him. It was a combined issue of the revelation of divinity, which we know is dangerous to humans and the fact that she really was expecting him to confess his real name was Larry Morton from Anywhereville USA and a horrific but human childhood.

But I loved the juxtaposition between her and Trixie's glee about Maze's "costume" and how much candy it would net them. Also the sex swing, Chloe was obviously horrified but Trixie had no idea what adults use it for and to her it was just a really awesome indoor swing to play on.

I wonder if Lucifer would actually be able to "reveal" himself around Chloe, since he can bleed and is apparently at least "mortal -ish" in her presence, it might stop other ways of proving himself too. They did seem to have dialled back on Luci/Chloe as a "pairing" this season and dropped the "why is she so special?" for now. Although she's extremely important to Lucifer still considering the fallout of the deal with "Dad" and his brother. I think his mother is sucking up a lot of that screentime, now he's split between another woman (with an very big agenda) as well.

I thought the case was kind of tacked on to a very myth arc heavy episode but it was ok.

Mom is manipulating like you wouldn't believe and Dad is definitely making his presence felt subtly but I like that even Angels are all "why in Hell won't He just flat out tell us what He wants" both Lucifer's rant last week and Amenadiel's this week.

Lucifer's obviously struggling a lot hell of a lot with everything but I hope the "I'm the Devil, I'm EVIL!!" is just something he pulls out around humans to demonstrate his guilt/pain/confusion. The Devil as the great Tempter of your own desires and then punisher is much more interesting (and possibly actually more theologically accurate depending on which denomination you belong to) than your standard Satan plot.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Featherhat
spelling and adding paragraph

[emma675]

I adored the Maze/Trixie trick or treating scenes and I loved the relief and joy that Maze had when Trixie accepted her "real" face. It was such a stark contrast to Lucifer and Dr. Linda. I'm wondering if Dr. Linda's reaction was a combo of shock at what had just happened and the dawning realization that she has literally been sleeping with the devil? I can't wait to see what comes of it and their relationship. Plus, Amenadiel is gonna be PISSED that a human now knows the devil is real (and so are angels).

[Loandbehold]

Holy hell was that a fun trip. So many wonderful lines (most mentioned in the recap). Sure, the episode went to some dark places, but it also had moments when the heavens opened up - specifically when Trixie accepted Maze's true face.

Mom is becoming a better villain as she is a pro at manipulating Luci and Amenadude all over the place. Tempting them by blaming herself for their problems while leading them by the nose to denounce Him.

I'm also loving the Maze-Chloe-Trixie living dynamic. It's like the distaff version of Two and a Half Men, only, you know, funny.

Someone upthread said the show gave them whiplash and I agree. Going from the Lucifer reveals himself to Dr. Linda scene to Chloe coming home and putting the blanket on the sleeping Maze and Trixie was the final and biggest such moment.

[ProudMary]

3 hours ago, Boilergal said:

I told Dr. L she didn't want to see the real him...she wouldn't listen to me - sigh   Do you think Chloe would have had the same reaction?   I think she would have been a little shocked, but not catatonic.  

Good question.  I don't think Chloe would have the same reaction.  Chloe and Dr. Linda have seen completely different sides of Lucifer.  Linda has seen his emotional side during their therapy sessions.  While Lucifer has been honest during those sessions, it was always Linda's assumption that everything with him was a metaphor.  What else would she see?  In her profession she deals daily with people who are in deep emotional pain and use coping methods to handle what they're going through.  She assumes that Lucifer is doing the same.  She is completely unprepared for the revelation that all he has told her is REAL.  

Chloe on the other hand, in the course of her profession, has actually seen Lucifer's powers.  She saw sleazy Jimmy shoot Lucifer and watched him walk right through the bullets; she saw him throw the lawyer through the plate glass window; saw his superpowered rage toward the Spider who killed Father Frank; whether she admits it to herself or not, she caught a glimpse of Lucifer's supernatural being in the mirror the night she shot him; and of course, she saw Malcolm shoot and kill Lucifer and be back to normal moments later.  Chloe doesn't have an explanation for any of this, but in her head she knows that Lucifer is not just a normal human being.  She has chosen to push this to the back of her mind but were she to be confronted with his divinity the way Dr. Linda now has been, I think she would have a much less shocked reaction.  IMO she would welcome the real answer to the questions she has had since the first day she met Lucifer.

3 hours ago, dippydee said:

On a shallow note, disheveled and slightly rumpled homeless magician is a very very good look for Tom Ellis. He was looking particularly yummy this week.

Oh my goodness, YES!!!  

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I wonder if Lucifer would actually be able to "reveal" himself around Chloe, since he can bleed and is apparently at least "mortal -ish" in her presence, it might stop other ways of proving himself too. They did seem to have dialled back on Luci/Chloe as a "pairing" this season and dropped the "why is she so special?" for now. Although she's extremely important to Lucifer still considering the fallout of the deal with "Dad" and his brother. I think his mother is sucking up a lot of that screentime, now he's split between another woman (with an very big agenda) as well.

Great point!  While I would like him to be able to reveal himself to Chloe the way he has to Dr. Linda, I could see the writers wanting to delay that revelation a while longer.  This could very well be the way they could do that.

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I adored the Maze/Trixie trick or treating scenes and I loved the relief and joy that Maze had when Trixie accepted her "real" face. It was such a stark contrast to Lucifer and Dr. Linda. I'm wondering if Dr. Linda's reaction was a combo of shock at what had just happened and the dawning realization that she has literally been sleeping with the devil? I can't wait to see what comes of it and their relationship. Plus, Amenadiel is gonna be PISSED that a human now knows the devil is real (and so are angels).

That was where my mind went too.  That would certainly be enough to induce catatonia!

Also, I loved hearing the double shot of Kaleo in last night's soundtrack, both "No Good" and "Way Down."  Great band, great tracks, perfect fit for the episode.

Edited November 1, 2016 by ProudMary
Adding comments on the episode's music.

[Good Queen Jane]

2 hours ago, Inquiry said:

Did anyone else notice that Chloe seemed on the verge of tears when she told Lucifer that if she wouldn't talk to him, he should talk to someone

I agree that Chloe was upset because Lucifer wouldn't talk to her, but I don't think it showed any romantic interest on Chloe's part. She talked about cop partners having each others back and talking about things and I think that's how Chloe wants Lucifer. After all, she was ostracized by the other cops for a long time and Lucifer filled that place for her. She trusts Luci but is upset that he won't trust her.

And if I had any doubts that Mom was a bad guy, her expert manipulation of Amenadiel put that to rest. I wonder if Uriel is really buried under the tree or whether that was just another way of bringing the guilt and ultimate destruction of her ex's number one son.

[Yokosmom]

Quote

I agree that Chloe was upset because Lucifer wouldn't talk to her, but I don't think it showed any romantic interest on Chloe's part.

Not to mention that she had just seen him attempt suicide by taunting the gunman.

[tennisgurl]

Its impressive how much stuff they can fit into just one episode. Word to what everyone has said about the mood whiplash. Not a bad thing, but the jumps in tone are pretty intense. 

I hope Dr. Linda is alright, and she goes on to accept Luci. I think she will when she deals with what she saw. Thats a lot of information to get suddenly dumped on you, even if Luci has been telling her the truth since day 1.

Mom is a master manipulator. She is totally trying to turn the kids against Dad, what to what end? Just trying to stay out of Hell, or does she have a more malicious plan? I cant wait to see!

I could watch a whole episode of Maz and Trixie Trick or Treating! It was all I dreamed of an more! And Maz put on her real face for Halloween! Classic Halloween episode. Then playing with her sex swing. Of course. I am really liking Maz as the roommate from literal Hell.  

[DEL901]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Mom is a master manipulator. She is totally trying to turn the kids against Dad, what to what end? Just trying to stay out of Hell, or does she have a more malicious plan? I cant wait to see!

I wonder if mom is also trying to turn the kids against each other?

[gwhh]

Glad the doctor. Did not go insane from seeing Lucy true form.   I wonder why?  

I am starting to think that Dan is an awful police officer. Did he find his badge in a Cracker Jack box??  How he make detective?  Save the mayor life!   

Does having sex with the devil.  Make you him minion?   

 

http://hiddenremote.com/2016/04/18/lucifer-star-tom-ellis-takes-us-hell-nice-way/

Edited November 1, 2016 by gwhh

[gwhh]

14 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Great episode! Last season had a bit too much emphasis on Palmetto and Dan and that other corrupt cop. I didn't really care all that much about those plots. This season is still fun (Trixie and Maze for the epic win!) but also more serious and it's actually working.

There was a great meaningful moment when Maze showed her real face to Trixie and Trixie's reaction was joy. Maze doesn't get that a lot I would imagine. Her reaction (a slight smile) was great and I like that she's bonding with someone who has so little in common with her.

However, I have to laugh at Trixie's concern that Maze wasn't wearing a costume. Let's see... skintight leather pants, a corset and over-the-knee boots. And Trixie thinks this is entirely normal. As much as she might like to be the President of Mars I think Trixie might end up being a dominatrix when she grows up.

I also loved that bit about Trixie's random costume and the confused guy who didn't know what to make of her. Maze's "she's the President of Mars, duh!" was gold!

I'm intrigued by Mom saying that she could get Amenadiel's powers back... along with hers. Doesn't she remember turning a mugger into salsa by chucking him into a brick wall? Does she mean to say she wishes to be more powerful than that?

Lucifer's actual face wasn't really that scary. Still human-shaped but slightly asymmetrical and missing skin. Plus red eyes. Not exactly the stuff of nightmares although seeing his normally handsome mug morph into that would be disconcerting I am sure.

If anyone was wondering about the song Luci played on the piano it was "Unforgiven" by Metallica. The music in this show continues to be on point.

Is maze clothes  made just for her?   Or is there a store that sells those types of outfits in the greater LA area?  

Edited November 2, 2016 by gwhh

[WordsWordsWords]

I'm more than a little in love with Maze. Toss her into a scene with Trixie and I simply swoon. The actor who plays Maze has terrific chemistry with everyone she works with.

I loved this episode a lot.

[Eneya]

I am truly sorry to be a bother but the serpent in the garden IS NOT the devil, was never the devil and can not be the devil. It is clearly written "the serpent was -bla-bla-bla". Obviously was an animal... a talking... legs having snake... but an animal created personally by god, named by Adam and nothing to do with Lucifer. So... no. The silver tongue is not inherited by the serpent from the mom. :) Oh, yes and while I am at it, Eve NEVER heard the warning from God, because she didn't existed at that particular time. Only Adam knew and he kind of stood back and did nothing and THEN somebody else got the blame for his inactions. /end rant

Also... I am kind of bristling at the idea that the mother is chaos/evil and the father is good/law/order. Mostly because it doesn't analyse that dualism in any way but simply plops it and leaves it there. I think the show is planning to look into this a bit more.

Also, I do love the interpretation about the bar fly. :) And I also think Amenadiel kind of got played, yes.

[Yokosmom]

Quote

I wonder if mom is also trying to turn the kids against each other?

I think that she is trying to turn them against "Dad".  And if they can take out troublesome Dad-obeying brother angels like Uriel, then all the better.  I am wondering why Amandiel is being so naive--he knows that mom is bad news, and her manipulations are (to viewers, at least), pretty obvious.  Losing his wings has obviously thrown him for a bit of a loop, but his sudden lack of suspicion regarding mom's motives doesn't speak much to his smarts. (Thinking further...) I suppose that I can understand it a little bit--he has spent his whole existence with surety and rules, and now those rules have changed.  That supposedly more cynical Lucifer is allowing himself to be taken in by her is a little disappointing.  Hopefully he will be the one to unmask her at some point.  And what do you want to bet that the whole "I was sent to hell because Dad wanted to destroy you" is a total lie?

Thanks to everyone who pointed out Dad's possible help/thoughts that were scattered through the episode.  The great shaft of sunlight by the tree/Urial's grave was possibly another one.

[storyskip]

1 hour ago, Eneya said:

I am truly sorry to be a bother but the serpent in the garden IS NOT the devil, was never the devil and can not be the devil. It is clearly written "the serpent was -bla-bla-bla". Obviously was an animal... a talking... legs having snake... but an animal created personally by god, named by Adam and nothing to do with Lucifer. So... no. The silver tongue is not inherited by the serpent from the mom. :) Oh, yes and while I am at it, Eve NEVER heard the warning from God, because she didn't existed at that particular time. Only Adam knew and he kind of stood back and did nothing and THEN somebody else got the blame for his inactions. /end rant

Also... I am kind of bristling at the idea that the mother is chaos/evil and the father is good/law/order. Mostly because it doesn't analyse that dualism in any way but simply plops it and leaves it there. I think the show is planning to look into this a bit more.

Also, I do love the interpretation about the bar fly. :) And I also think Amenadiel kind of got played, yes.

This show is based of an already fictionalized source, which itself is based of a fictionalized source.  There is absolutely, nor does their pretend to be any, tie back to actual Biblical or Theological study.  

Complaining about the show not following Biblical/Theological lore is like complaining M.A.S.H wasn't following proper military procedure.  This is FICTION, suspension of belief for the sake of telling a FICTIONAL story and it appears the showrunners are pulling from multiple theological sources.  Take the tree for instance where Uriel is buried.  That hearkens towards Norse mythology and Yggdrasil.

In other news something I noted but forgot to mention; Lucifer pulling his punch when he laid one on Dan.  I think we were all laughing at what came before it, because Dan's utter shock at the hug was amusing, as was Lucifer picking his pocket but then the punch came.  Given what we've seen Lucifer is capable of and how (unwittingly) deep those words hit him emotionally, the fact that he remembered to pull his punch again says a lot about who Lucifer is vs who he sees himself as.

Likewise with leaving the $100.00 bill in the vending machine when he took the donuts. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, emma675 said:

I adored the Maze/Trixie trick or treating scenes and I loved the relief and joy that Maze had when Trixie accepted her "real" face. It was such a stark contrast to Lucifer and Dr. Linda. I'm wondering if Dr. Linda's reaction was a combo of shock at what had just happened and the dawning realization that she has literally been sleeping with the devil? I can't wait to see what comes of it and their relationship. Plus, Amenadiel is gonna be PISSED that a human now knows the devil is real (and so are angels).

I have an idea that Dr. Linda's version of Hell is that she gets raptured up into Heaven, enters a pearly-white version of her office and finds a line of angels going into the distance who need therapy for their Mom/Dad issues.

[jewel21]

I hope the next time we see Dr. Linda she isn't rocking back and forth and muttering incoherently in a mental ward.

[Jlina]

7 hours ago, Inquiry said:

Did anyone else notice that Chloe seemed on the verge of tears

I noticed this a little sooner than that, she was in the station maybe?  And her eyes were red-rimmed as heck and almost spilling water? tears?  I actually wonder if she's going to turn out to be some kind of supernatural due to the makeup choices they use on her!

I thought it was very much Lucifer abandoned to punish himself; although I can see subtle nods most noticeably the "it's not your fault," line.  But I did think the tree/sunlight was going to be as close as we come to "seeing" Dad - I expected a reveal - then Mom kind of blew that away, ha, unless she wanted an audience - eyebrow wiggle.

LOVED the President of Mars scene.  LOVED gorgeous Tom Ellis; he makes Hook look like he doesn't know how to wear guyliner!

It had a bit too much angst in it for me, I agree that these characters are almost anthropomorphisms when they would normally be archetypes, what I'm not sure of is if they are supposed to be becoming human? Is being human better? More fun?  They are certainly laying on the human reactions and feelings (guilt) onto the characters.

Right now I'm stuck on what's it all mean??? and that's not as much fun as it was before.  Hope I can get the groove back.

[seveneightnine]

9 hours ago, storyskip said:

As for Dad, I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet so I'll circle back to it.  It is my OPINION (no fact here!) that we saw Dad all over this episode.  I don't think they will ever cast "Dad" as a character the way "Mom" was cast.  Instead, we saw Dad working through other people.  Think about it:

1)  When Lucifer ran into the one bar fly and spilled her drink.  He is disoriented at the time, obviously lost to his thoughts and goes "I'm sorry, so sorry" and Ellis's delivery is perfect because it's that combination of apology for the moment (spilled drink) and also an expression of the mantra he's probably been repeating to himself since he killed Uriel.   The bar fly, rather than being upset, gently and clearly tells him "It's okay, it wasn't your fault."

Love the idea of this! Love the idea that the showrunners are subtle and delicate with their brush. Such a rarity these days.

Such a great episode over all.  The Trick or Treating, the costumes, the Tom Ellis angst. Also, loved the music as well. I kept hearing the line "He tried to please them all, this bitter man he is" as Luci was playing the piano.

[CheshireCat]

4 hours ago, Yokosmom said:

I think that she is trying to turn them against "Dad".  

Huh? I would say Lucifer turned against Dad millennia ago. We don't know what happened that got him cast out but he got cast out because he rebelled against Dad which basically means he defied Dad and ever since the show started he's been shown as being fed up and angry with Dad. He's also blamed Dad for making him the devil, so I don't think any turning is needed.

I have no idea how Amenadiel feels about Dad. He seemed to be the loyal soldier in S1 then started to bond with Lucifer more. He seems to be the "I don't question anything, I just follow orders" kind of guy, at least, he was until he realized he'd gone too far. So far, I'd say he's rather indifferent about Dad.

 

10 hours ago, Inquiry said:

Did anyone else notice that Chloe seemed on the verge of tears when she told Lucifer that if she wouldn't talk to him, he should talk to someone? I thought that was pretty interesting. I've felt like they've dialed back the Lucifer/Chloe pairing this season, but this episode seemed to be playing catch-up (although the moments were much more subtle than last season). Anyway, given Chloe's reaction, I'm wondering if Chloe's dad was killed in a similar manner (practically begging the shooter to kill him). Will freely admit that I could be completely misreading that scene. Hell, maybe Lauren Graham had the cold or something, but I thought I would at least throw it out there. 

I agree with Good Queen Jane on this one, I didn't see any romance. Probably because there wasn't any hints at a pairing in previous episodes in S2 (I'm not counting the "get a room already" comment from Ella because that just felt forced) they didn't seem to be flirting in any of the previous episodes and I didn't pick up on any sexual tension. I think, Chloe just cares for him and she was really concerned.

Slightly related, what bothered me was that after the first shot came, Chloe just stood there and stared. The shot had to come from above her, and since two sides could be ruled out (behind Lucifer and the entrance), I don't know why she didn't call for officers to head upstairs and clear the two sides the shots could come from.

[izabella]

3 hours ago, Jlina said:

I noticed this a little sooner than that, she was in the station maybe?  And her eyes were red-rimmed as heck and almost spilling water? tears?  I actually wonder if she's going to turn out to be some kind of supernatural due to the makeup choices they use on her!

I have been feeling like her makeup has been ghostly or deathly pale and sickly for a while now.  And I've wondered if they are doing that because she is, technically, hovering between life and death.  She's alive because Lucifer promised he'd send Mom to hell, but he hasn't.  So Chloe is only alive until Dad gets tired of waiting for Lucifer to send Mom to hell, which he isn't doing anytime soon.  I think the ghostly makeup is a sign that her days are numbered unless Lucifer sends Mom back to hell.

[thuganomics85]

A bit more serious compared to the norm, thanks to Lucifer understandably still be shaken over what happened with Uriel.  One of the most jarring moments was when he actually called Dan "Daniel."  It just feels wrong when Lucifer is no longer calling him Detective Douche!  And all of his spiraling scenes and lashing out at Chloe were well done.  Tom Ellis really did a great job in all of them.  I'm glad Chloe doesn't seem to completely given up on him yet, although I have to imagine her patience and understanding will only go so far, especially if he keeps acting inappropriate during cases (well, more inappropriate then the norm...)

And, yeah, while I still won't say she's flat out bad, I do think Mom is up to something and trying to turn Amenadiel  against "Father."  I still think she truly loves her sons, but I do think she is all for using this to help herself as well.

The episode still brought some great laughs though with Trixie and Maze!  They were hilarious together as expected.  Love how Maze pretty much scared that one guy into not only giving Trixie more candy, but money as well!  And Maze actually showing Trixie her demon face, and Trixie liking it was a nice bit.  I like that Maze does seem to almost Trixie in ways she doesn't trust any other person on this show.

Speaking of changing faces, interesting that it is Linda who is the first one that ends up getting a look at Lucifer's "true form", in all of its glory.  Not surprised that she is pretty much speechless at the moment, but I really wonder how she'll react once she's had time to process everything that just happened.

This season continues to surprise me.  I really feel like it has stepped up quality wise on almost every level.

[Yokosmom]

Quote

 

Huh? I would say Lucifer turned against Dad millennia ago. We don't know what happened that got him cast out but he got cast out because he rebelled against Dad which basically means he defied Dad and ever since the show started he's been shown as being fed up and angry with Dad. He's also blamed Dad for making him the devil, so I don't think any turning is needed.

I have no idea how Amenadiel feels about Dad. He seemed to be the loyal soldier in S1 then started to bond with Lucifer more. He seems to be the "I don't question anything, I just follow orders" kind of guy, at least, he was until he realized he'd gone too far. So far, I'd say he's rather indifferent about Dad.

 

True enough, re Lucifer.  However, I'm wondering if Uriel was right about Mom's endgame.  Lucifer rebelled against Dad, but he hasn't tried to actually kill him (not that he actually could, if he tried.)  Amenadiel didn't seem indifferent to Dad at the end of the episode--he was deeply angry.  If she wants to make a power play, she'll need some help.

[CheshireCat]

24 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Not a fan of this episode.  I understand that Lucifer is having problems with dealing with the fact that he killed his own brother.  However, acting like a complete asshole to everyone else, when he is the one responsible for his own actions is very hard for me to take.  He ought to be able to grieve without being a dick about.

He wasn't grieving so much as feeling guilty and responsible and once again struggling with his devil self. He was trying to get shot, and while it wasn't specifically stated, I think the logical conclusion is that he wanted to be shot because that would send him back to Hell which he felt he deserved as punishment.

 

24 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Not happy that Lucifer showed Dr. Linda who he truly is.  It seems way too early in this series for that to happen.  Besides, once everyone knows who he truly is, there isn't really anywhere for the show to go script wise.

I think there was plenty of story these past episodes and who Lucifer and Co really are was not subject of the episodes. Chloe gave up trying to find out after the S2 premiere, Dr Linda never tried to find out. And episodes 2-6 still had plenty of story.

[Eneya]

22 hours ago, storyskip said:

This show is based of an already fictionalized source, which itself is based of a fictionalized source.  There is absolutely, nor does their pretend to be any, tie back to actual Biblical or Theological study.  

Complaining about the show not following Biblical/Theological lore is like complaining M.A.S.H wasn't following proper military procedure.  This is FICTION, suspension of belief for the sake of telling a FICTIONAL story and it appears the showrunners are pulling from multiple theological sources.  Take the tree for instance where Uriel is buried.  That hearkens towards Norse mythology and Yggdrasil.

In other news something I noted but forgot to mention; Lucifer pulling his punch when he laid one on Dan.  I think we were all laughing at what came before it, because Dan's utter shock at the hug was amusing, as was Lucifer picking his pocket but then the punch came.  Given what we've seen Lucifer is capable of and how (unwittingly) deep those words hit him emotionally, the fact that he remembered to pull his punch again says a lot about who Lucifer is vs who he sees himself as.

Likewise with leaving the $100.00 bill in the vending machine when he took the donuts. 

 

I am not complaining the story is not following the bible, my response was aimed at another poster saying that Lucifer got his silver tongue from his mother (and then there was a reference towards the snake and the garden). If Lucifer was the serpent and played a role in that bit or not, we do not yet know, because the show hasn't established it. So... O.o?