S13.E06: Roar

[windsprints]

Quote

i say this as someone who loves Alex, so I can see if those who don't, or can't be bothered can't see it. it could be a ymmv. 

Can't see it? I'd call it having a differing opinion but hey, being rude works too. 

I'll take my Alex, Jo and Jolex discussions to more appropriate threads.

Edited October 28, 2016 by windsprints

[moonorchid]

19 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

This could also be applied to Jo. She hasn't been declared any more inept then the rest of them (except Leah who was proven not as good more then once). She has no specialty and the attendings have been shown to sideline her repeatedly because they had a personal preference for Stephanie or Perfect Penny. 

April was failed but I believe Owen apologised for failing her when he took her back. Jo isn't shown as being incapable she's just not the favourite. I wish the show could maybe address her issues instead of usual bringing in a guest star to be the centre of a storyline that could easily be for her.

Once upon a time though Jo was a rockstar. She was being mentored by Callie. The tune changed when Meredith became the sun and especially when Derek died. But for the most part you are right. 

I really need this show to s*** or get off the pot with this character. She has an amazing story to tell and instead I'm seeing why I should root for Alex.

[Court]

I'm guessing Alex has been told by his lawyers not to speak to Deluca or about the case. 

[BaseOps]

I'll have to go back and rewatch, but didn't Alex try to apologize to Jo in episode two outside of Amelia and Owen's house? And he tried to apologize to DeLuca, too, while he was hospitalized (granted, not great timing there). I feel like he's just sort of trying to respect Jo and DeLuca's space now. I do think he knows that what he did is wrong, he expressed that to Meredith more than once as well. I still wish that the writers were addressing his anger / violent tendencies a bit more head on, but I'm glad they're at least pushing Alex front and centre. And so far, I don't see it really having anything to do with 'the sisters' despite sharing scenes with them. For the last few weeks his story has revolved mainly around patients and his case - I loved his stuff with Bailey last night, and I love seeing him as a great doctor. Of course I could be wrong, but I still don't see any of this leading to Meredith and Alex hooking up. I do get why fans are frustrated about him and Jo not sharing so many scenes, but that just isn't a big deal to me personally because I've never really been invested in the two of them. If they get back together and resolve their issues, I'll be happy as long as Alex is happy. 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Joana said:

Finally it's established that no one really knows about Amelia's past. It makes a bit more sense now. 

It looks like that, but the writers must have forgotten when Amelia stood in a hallway and told everybody that she had a baby that died.  This was when April and Jackson lost their baby or were about to, can't remember which.  She didn't go into details, but she did tell everyone in the hall.

[jaync]

Welcome back, Leah! LOL at Arizona's reaction when Maggie said Leah has great hands.

I have to echo the praise for the Alex/Amelia scene. It's terrible that Amelia had to go through that with her baby boy. Is that what facilitated her addiction?

Why is Stephanie so pissy? Her place as a Neuro darling is still intact, and it's not like she wasn't a mess herself after her own relationship with an attending blew up.

Tight episode.

[moonorchid]

2 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I'll have to go back and rewatch, but didn't Alex try to apologize to Jo in episode two outside of Amelia and Owen's house? And he tried to apologize to DeLuca, too, while he was hospitalized (granted, not great timing there). I feel like he's just sort of trying to respect Jo and DeLuca's space now. I do think he knows that what he did is wrong, he expressed that to Meredith more than once as well. 

I have not rewatched those scenes so I may be mistaken. From what I remember, he wanted to talk to deluca and the impression I got it was to try and lesson the upcoming punishment/chance of arrest. When deluca freaked out you can tell he felt horrified.

With jo, she tried to talk to him and he told her she's too damaged to love anybody (pot calling kettle), than he ran into her at Amelia's house warming party and wanted to talk cause he might be arrested. 

Ive seen Alex be afraid of being arrested and really questioning about what he did and what that says about him. What I truly haven't seen is him being sorry. He's prob been advised not to speak to Deluca and that is exactly what he should be doing, but he's talked about this with others and being sorry never comes up.

Coming back to this episode, I didn't care for how he was with bailey...paging her like she owes him for being stuck at the clinic. Scolding her infront of colleagues, contradicting her in front of patients. But this is old school Alex. This has always been a part of him. Doing things the wrong way for the right reasons and this show continues to justify his actions. He's not acting like he's damn lucky to have a job at all and to be able to still practice medicine. 

[Daisy]

24 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Can't see it? I'd call it having a differing opinion but hey, being rude works too. 

I'll take my Alex, Jo and Jolex discussions to more appropriate threads.

i actually wrote it wrong, and i had meant to edit it out - as it doesn't even make sense. that's why i wrote ymmv (your milage may vary). I apologise wholeheartedly if you thought i was being rude. it was not my intention whatsoever. 

[izabella]

13 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

Coming back to this episode, I didn't care for how he was with bailey...paging her like she owes him for being stuck at the clinic. Scolding her infront of colleagues, contradicting her in front of patients. But this is old school Alex. This has always been a part of him. Doing things the wrong way for the right reasons and this show continues to justify his actions. He's not acting like he's damn lucky to have a job at all and to be able to still practice medicine. 

Alex is acting like they all act when they are in the wrong - self-righteous and expecting their transgressions to be swept under the rug, like usual.

Anyway, Alex owns all of Christina's shares in the hospital, so he has some right to expect the doctors in the hospital to respond to their pages.

[Daisy]

16 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I'll have to go back and rewatch, but didn't Alex try to apologize to Jo in episode two outside of Amelia and Owen's house? And he tried to apologize to DeLuca, too, while he was hospitalized (granted, not great timing there). I feel like he's just sort of trying to respect Jo and DeLuca's space now. I do think he knows that what he did is wrong, he expressed that to Meredith more than once as well. I still wish that the writers were addressing his anger / violent tendencies a bit more head on, but I'm glad they're at least pushing Alex front and centre. And so far, I don't see it really having anything to do with 'the sisters' despite sharing scenes with them. For the last few weeks his story has revolved mainly around patients and his case - I loved his stuff with Bailey last night, and I love seeing him as a great doctor. Of course I could be wrong, but I still don't see any of this leading to Meredith and Alex hooking up. I do get why fans are frustrated about him and Jo not sharing so many scenes, but that just isn't a big deal to me personally because I've never really been invested in the two of them. If they get back together and resolve their issues, I'll be happy as long as Alex is happy. 

he did. both of them shut him down right quick. then he told Meredith to don't make things worse. (because it came off as threatening DeLuca).  I have to re-watch the first 2 episodes again, but unless I've missed something (which very much could be the case) - Alex attacked DeLuca because he felt that Jo was being attacked because she was drunk. Even when he was at the hospital he felt horrified that he was that violent, but he felt it was worth it because Jo wasn't in the mental capacity to defend herself. He found out that wasn't the case and that horrified feeling transformed into wanting to apologise to what he did without that crutch. But DeLuca (obviously) wanted nothing to with it, and because of the Alex hurt first, before you get hurt (emotional) too - and was rude to Jo in the 1st episode, Jo was like screw you back off in the 2nd. 

Alex (in my opinion) is honouring those wishes (again as I stated we've seen people totally deny requests like these by trapping them in elevators or stairwells to Speech at them).

To tie this with the episode - I think Alex being in the clinic - is going to change how the clinic is going to be utalized moving forward. All the surgeons treat the clinic as if it's the last place they want to be and they've constantly shown that they will put off pages from the clinic because they don't think it's as sexy cool as Cutting Into People. Alex is there now and I think the irritation he is feeling is from the fact that he actually can not help these people. Before he could he would see the issue and work on it. now he can't. We had the not drunk, drunk patient the first time and now  Pregnant Cancer Lady.

Also - Alex fully expects to go to jail - so for me, I don't think he expects to have anything swept under the rug. 

[Coxfires]

Regarding Alex being sorry or remorseful, I think that he is, he just doesn't vocalize it in explicit ways, or at least that is what I get from his lines. IMO he really thinks he is going to jail because what he did was wrong. He told Meredith he felt like trash in episode 2, he keeps telling her how about he soon won't be there anymore. And I am not excusing him, I think that he should be harshly sentenced for what he did, but regarding his remorse, there is also the fact that he didn't beat up Deluca because it was Deluca, he would have blugeoned any guy that would have been there, it wasn't personal. And I feel that he still can't really cope with that, and is in kind of a denial phase that he could lose it like that. This all tie up with him needing psychological help more than anything. And finally, there is also the fact that the writers probably kept this for the trial.

This still doesn't excuse him or meant the law should be "lenient" on him, but to me, he is expressing remorses in lots of ways, just not frontal TV ways.

[moonorchid]

All I know is when bailey said to Alex, "next time I give you a place, know your place", I did something I haven't done in a long time, cheered for bailey! 

[Court]

We've seen in a previous episode that the residents ignore pages to the clinic. Even when they were having lunch in the clinic, all 3 refused to lance a boil in the clinic. So, even if he had paged a resident, no one would come. They consider it scut work. 

So, while Alex shouldn't have yelled at Bailey,  I think his frustration is valid. He's taking his clinic job seriously and knows everyone else (including him previously) sees the clinic as a joke. He had paged her for over an hour with no answer. Bailey shouldn't have ignored it.

[WhosThatGirl]

I'm curious as to what the show is doing re the romantic relationships as well. At the start of this season I would have assumed we were going to be getting Jo and Alex break up but her husband comes and her secret comes out and then they reunite, etc. But now it looks like there's actual legs to a Alex and Meredith hookup and like Jo and DeLuca might have a thing as well? So I'm curious to what this means, if these pairings happen, are they roadblocks for the eventual couples? If that's the case, I think the DeLuca character is the one who gets the short end of that stick and all the other characters will come out unscathed. Jolex will reunite and Meredith will have someone in the wings already waiting. But if that's not the case and the writers are just throwing these things out... I don't know

[Daisy]

4 hours ago, Court said:

We've seen in a previous episode that the residents ignore pages to the clinic. Even when they were having lunch in the clinic, all 3 refused to lance a boil in the clinic. So, even if he had paged a resident, no one would come. They consider it scut work. 

So, while Alex shouldn't have yelled at Bailey,  I think his frustration is valid. He's taking his clinic job seriously and knows everyone else (including him previously) sees the clinic as a joke. He had paged her for over an hour with no answer. Bailey shouldn't have ignored it.

and that should have been the underlying thing. why was Bailey ignoring it? (was she just ignoring it because she got Catherine'd?) Why do any of them ignore it. Because it's not sexy. That is wrong and it shouldn't happen. 

Actually because of the baby, I'm surprised that Arizona wasn't called as well. 

[candall]

I'm really out of step with everyone!

I've never been a Jolex fan.  Jo's okay by herself, but she and Alex always felt like . . .when my new kitten pounces on my senior dog's tail:  best to take that energy somewhere else, kitty.

She and Deluca seem more of a match to me, in five minutes, than all these seasons of Alex & Jo.

***********************

Amelia might have had a strong scene with Alex, but my tolerance for Amelia had already expired by her fake airy refusals to have any conversation, or dinner, or awake-time with her newly betrothed soulmate.  (Pfft.)  La-di-da, no can do, Owen.  What's that?  No, I'm fine, Owen.  Fiiiine.  But, don't wait up, 'kay?

Someone said she'd be taking time off from the show to have a baby?  WHEN?

*************************

I have zero problems with The Return of Leah.  I only watched Leah get the boot a couple of weeks ago and this character is not that character at all.  Leah 2.0 is poised and confident and an excellent surgeon.  (Also much prettier, for some reason.)  I think it was very smart of them to bring in a "new" character that already has connections and a built-in backstory without needing to waste a lot of time on the introductory piffle.

Edited October 29, 2016 by candall
added a "soulmate' jab at Amelia.

[mojito]

Quote

I have zero problems with The Return of Leah.  I only watched Leah get the boot a couple of weeks ago and this character is not that character at all.  Leah 2.0 is poised and confident and an excellent surgeon.  (Also much prettier, for some reason.)  I think it was very smart of them to bring in a "new" character that already has connections and a built-in backstory without needing to waste a lot of time on the introductory piffle.

I agree.

I'd like to see Leah 2.0 be the one competent doctor who has everyone's admiration, attracts both men and women (and isn't attracted to anyone in the hospital), remains private about her private life, and has people coming to her with their secrets and problems while she reveals nothing.  I wouldn't want her to be smug or standoffish, just businesslike.  I would enjoy just for once having a character who isn't chock full of problems and insecurities, who shares too much private information, is haunted by some dark past (abuse, dead babies, poverty, other family tragedies, etc). Instead, she could be the target of speculation as everyone tries to figure out "what's with her?". Now that would be a breath of fresh air.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, windsprints said:

Me either. Even if Leah has managed to become the Best! Resident! Ever! it still makes no sense for them to bring her back. She tried to sue the hospital because someone broke up with her.  She slept with 2 attendings and wasn't able to handle the breakups and keep it separate from her career.  Why on earth would they bring back an HR nightmare waiting to happen again?

Did she actually sue them, or did she just file a complaint with HR?  I would think she could actually sue them if they didn't hire her just for filing a complaint, because really, she wasn't being unreasonable with that complaint. If I'm remembering correctly, Arizona did let their relationship impact her teaching Leah.

Yes, it was dumb on her part to sleep with her bosses. But they never should have been sleeping with her in the first place. I know everyone does this on Grey's, but that doesn't make it right. A company isn't supposed to penalize an employee for coming forward with issues like that.

[windsprints]

I thought she sued but could be wrong. I just quickly googled and a recap said she sued.  I'm not rewatching the old Leah episodes to see for sure, sorry.  Even if I am incorrect and she didn't sue she's still a potential HR nightmare given her past relationships within the hospital.  I don't know how she could possibly sue them now had they not rehired her. She was cut from the program years ago and they aren't obligated to hire her again even if she has improved.

Quote

Arizona did let their relationship impact her teaching Leah

Again, I could be wrong but I thought she sued or filed against Callie?

[StaceyNotStacie]

I don't dislike Jo, but I wouldn't miss her if she was gone. I am liking her scenes with Deluca, so I wouldn't mind seeing them together. I liked that Leah called her out for talking about her in the cafeteria. Speaking of Leah, I'm wondering about the dynamics with Stephanie considering that Stephanie is usually referred to as the favorite resident.

The Alex and Amelia scene was okay. Considering that April and Owen are close, it would have been more interesting if Amelia had shared more with April, considering that they could sympathize with each other because of their similar losses.  I liked Alex and Meredith at the end. I was amused that he banned her from the kitchen. I'd love to see a waffle scene with everyone around the counter as Alex makes waffles. 

[funnygirl]

49 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Again, I could be wrong but I thought she sued or filed against Callie?

She did. It would've been less suspect and made more sense had she filed against Arizona, even though she was well aware of the terms of their sex-lationship, but is naturally a stage 4 clinger anyway. She raised the flags with the rest of the attendings sleeping with subordinates, but it was Callie who was the only one that got penalized for Leah's own foolishness. 

I don't care that this "new" version of her is more confident and poised and will probably be "Perfect Penny" 2.0, she's no better than the worst of them, IMO. If they wanted someone to be this great amazing surgeon character, they should've created a great amazing surgeon character and brought in someone completely new. 

[Court]

52 minutes ago, windsprints said:

I thought she sued but could be wrong. I just quickly googled and a recap said she sued.  I'm not rewatching the old Leah episodes to see for sure, sorry.  Even if I am incorrect and she didn't sue she's still a potential HR nightmare given her past relationships within the hospital.  I don't know how she could possibly sue them now had they not rehired her. She was cut from the program years ago and they aren't obligated to hire her again even if she has improved.

Again, I could be wrong but I thought she sued or filed against Callie?

I believe it was against Callie but after Arizona dumped Leah? I could be making all this up.

[Joana]

Yeah, Callie basically bullied her during a surgery when she found out she had been sleeping with Arizona.

[funnygirl]

7 minutes ago, Joana said:

Yeah, Callie basically bullied her during a surgery when she found out she had been sleeping with Arizona.

No she didn't. 

I mean you can dislike Callie but don't get the facts wrong. Leah started freaking out in the middle of the surgery while Callie was calmly teaching her to use the drill. But because Leah was in there with both Arizona and Callie, she couldn't handle it. Leah drilled through the patient's leg and the operating table, and Callie was trying to talk her through the fix, but Leah was freaking out saying she can't do it and then turned to Arizona for help. That's when Callie put two and two together, Leah was still frozen not doing a damn thing, Callie took the drill from Leah and told them to get out of her OR.

It's not Callie's fault that Leah is a sniveling weakling who's real issue was that Arizona didn't love her. 

And that's why no matter how "different" they decide to tell me Leah is now, she's always going to be that resident who was not good enough. Like Richard said, Blake left and he saw an opening to bring her back. It's all for drama and plot, when there actually isn't a dire need for another resident anyway. I actually loved Catherine's reaction when Arizona was questioning why he rehired her. As extra as Catherine can be a lot of times, at least she calls this nonsense out. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by funnygirl

[pennben]

On 10/27/2016 at 9:10 PM, Gladrags said:

I didn't read any spoilers so I was surprised to see Leah Murphy back at the hospital. I never minded the character, so I'm interested to see where she goes.

 

Same here (so far, so good this season of avoiding spoilers....one day at a time)!  I wonder if this is sort of stalling technique related to Sara Ramirez being gone (for at least awhile, I didn't get the sense either side closed a door when she left).  Callie can theoretically be off with Penny (who we think she shouldn't be with) and Arizona can be with Leah (who we think she shouldn't be with) and if Sara comes back, they will have had stories to tell with Arizona and a relationship but still be able to work back to Callie/Arizona (if that really was endgame).

Anyway, another enjoyable episode.  I find that the more I like the show the less I feel the desire to comment....it's when things start going haywire that I get chatty:)  Keep me quiet all season show, I'm good with that!

Edited October 29, 2016 by pennben

[Scatterbrained]

It seems to me as if this may be a season of introspection for the show's various characters.  If so, then Leah serves as a good measuring tool for characters to remember what things were like when they last worked with her and how much things have changed, and they have changed (as individuals) with the passage of time and its' events in the interim.

[lorbeer]

15 hours ago, jaync said:

Welcome back, Leah! LOL at Arizona's reaction when Maggie said Leah has great hands.

Why is Stephanie so pissy? Her place as a Neuro darling is still intact, and it's not like she wasn't a mess herself after her own relationship with an attending blew up.

Leah was the only one new intern (then resident) I liked so I'm really glad she's back.

Stephanie is sooo annoying. And it was really bitchy to say all those things about Leah.

[candall]

9 hours ago, funnygirl said:

I mean you can dislike Callie but don't get the facts wrong. Leah started freaking out in the middle of the surgery while Callie was calmly teaching her to use the drill. But because Leah was in there with both Arizona and Callie, she couldn't handle it. Leah drilled through the patient's leg and the operating table, and Callie was trying to talk her through the fix, but Leah was freaking out saying she can't do it and then turned to Arizona for help. That's when Callie put two and two together, Leah was still frozen not doing a damn thing, Callie took the drill from Leah and told them to get out of her OR.

I guess that's one way to look at it.

For me, Callie was watching and teaching Leah how to do a procedure and Leah screwed up, as interns will do, for a million different reasons--that's why they're in there, to get supervised instruction.  We agree that Leah looked at Arizona for support, Callie figured it out and evicted both of them from surgery.

Later, Arizona is all stressed because Leah has filed a complaint with HR, but is surprised to learn the complaint is against Callie--which doesn't stop Arizona from scolding Leah about being too immature to handle being dumped.   Leah stops her and says, "I'm not a baby who's fussing about a breakup.  I'm here to learn medicine, but we had a thing, you told Callie all about it and now she won't teach me, which affects my opportunity to learn."  Arizona just stares at her, but tells Callie, at home that night, that she thinks Leah was right.  To which Callie explodes:

OF COURSE SHE WAS RIGHT!  You screwed an intern, I got jealous and [took it out on her (?)]  I can't remember the last part verbatim, but all three women eventually reached the same conclusion that the responsibility was more on the two older docs than Leah.

So I can't really go along with blaming Leah for her "foolishness."

 

If I slept with a professor who had broken up with his/her girlfriend and then they got back together and she was pissed off enough to kick me out of her class, I'd be speaking to Administration, too.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:02 PM, Lillybee said:

Especially Mer's three. I think Amelia did a lot of childcare when she lived with Mer.

Amelia and Maggie, both.  One episode showed that each sister took one of the children, and got them ready in the morning.  I loved that scene.  I also always felt that Amelia eased her grief with her nieces and nephew.  I found it very moving when Meredith first came back to town, and we see Amelia walking into the room with newborn Ellis.  Amelia just glowed, and I know she was thinking of her own baby, and how happy she was that this one was whole and healthy.

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 10:10 PM, Gladrags said:

I didn't read any spoilers so I was surprised to see Leah Murphy back at the hospital. I never minded the character, so I'm interested to see where she goes.

Meredith's thick file ... LMAO. So which doctors at Grey Sloan haven't screwed up at some point over the years? Hmmm ... I don't recall Arizona doing anything stupid, but I may be wrong. 

I'm no fan of Alex Karev, but in today's episode I didn't mind him at all. The scene with Amelia was fantastic, and I liked the way he fought to stay on the pregnant woman's case.  

Good to see Brigid Brannagh, too. 

I greatly preferred Leah to the others in her group, except Heather.  It took me a while to warm to her, but she was great after her mooning over Alex, and before her mooning over Arizona.  I finally realized I liked her when she was torn about the patient who refused blood (I think?), and how she actually hung blood (I think?) to try to save the patient. 

And I loved Brigid Brannagh.  It's been ages since I've been invested in a COtW SL.  She immediately clicked with Alex, and I immediately hoped she would be Alex's new love interest.  Their chemistry was great, her story line and choices were extremely believable, and showed how invested Alex becomes in his patients, even when they're not children (although her pregnancy probably tugged on his heart strings).

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 11:45 AM, kdm07 said:

It's really bothering me too. He was right about the patient but the way he went about it was all sorts of wrong. Bailey was right, he's on thin ice and acting like the Chief of Surgery should be running to him because he paged her was incredibly entitled. He keeps forgetting that anyone else in Bailey's position i.e. a Chief of Surgery who hadn't mentored him, would have suspended him until a verdict had been reached (yes I know the other attendings have been reckless and should've been suspended too). Bailey gave him a huge break by putting him in the clinic and he barely ever acts like he appreciates it. I doubt the show will address this because it looks like they're determined to redeem him in this way.

That being said, his scene with Amelia was very well done.

Murphy is an...interesting choice to bring back. I'm not sure what they plan to do with her.

I would be a little more concerned with how Alex talked to Bailey, if she ever gave anyone else the least respect.  She has a sharp, vicious tongue, and no one is spared.  She struts around that hospital in her ridiculously high heels, glaring at everyone who crosses her path.  I was really hoping Catherine would force Bailey to step down and go back to teaching.  As if she wasn't responsible for teaching them originally.  If Richard is culpable, so is Bailey.  Bailey lost all credibility when she was going at it in the on call room with one of her boy toys, and was shouting out orders to the person on the other side of the door, practically mid orgasm.  She's no longer the Bailey we first met, and I think it's a shame.  And I'm not forgetting that she unethically injected a child with the deactivated AIDS virus, against the parents' wishes.  She's perfectly fine bending rules, violating ethics, and protecting her favorites.  She can get off that high horse any time.

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 11:57 AM, moonorchid said:

It's the one thing that is halting my sympathy for Alex. His complete lack of remorse for what he actually did. He's acting like a martyr and it's pissing me off. I'm being hit over the head with how "amazing" of a doctor he is. Two episodes in a row of him making miraculous diagnosies of two patients people defending him as a good doctor. He's being charged with felony assault. That we know he actually did. It doesn't matter if Deluca is physically healed, Alex deserves to be punished in some form, he should not get away scot free with this. 

I would be a lot more irritated at the hospital Alex love, if not for Ben.  Getting off scot free on killing a mother and her baby.  So Bailey didn't have sex with him for five minutes (is that really a punishment), and he briefly couldn't perform in surgery.  That is the situation that will cause a massive law suit, not Alex.  And here Ben was tonight, sticking his nose in everyone's business, and acting as arrogantly as his wife.  He was not humbled by killing two patients - not in the slightest.  But what do you expect when his own wife is in charge? And there he was this episode, actually assessing the patient's pupils as if the fucking neurosurgeon is incompetent, and only Ben can properly assess the situation.  I didn't realize how irritated I am with him until this episode.

It's almost impossible for me to care about this situation, when Alex is an original MAGIC member, JC is finally getting something meaty, and DeLuca remains a glorified walk on.  I care in principal, but that's about it.  And Alex seems to be growing from this experience.  When has he ever full on expressed his need to be with people, and the desire to have all of his "family" gathered frequently?  He would typically make a smart ass remark, or act in a cynical manner.

I will admit never being invested in Jolex, but it seems like the show and the actors lack investment, too.  I think Justin and Camilla are capable enough actors to emote longing for each other, or grief at what they lost, even if the writing is lacking.  But I'm just not seeing that.  If I was new to the show I would never guess they were together for years.  It's like they're strangers.  They never express even a hint of missing each other, or even regret.  They seem utterly over each other, and I am fine with this.  I will have a very difficult time rooting for this couple in the future.  The writing would have to be out of this world.  I never doubted Meredith/Derek's love, no matter how ugly it got.  The same with Cristina/Burke and Cristina/Owen.  And I think SD does a very good job of indicating April is still hung up on Jackson.  An actor can often transcend the writing.

[Starscream]

53 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I would be a lot more irritated at the hospital Alex love, if not for Ben.  Getting off scot free on killing a mother and her baby.  So Bailey didn't have sex with him for five minutes (is that really a punishment), and he briefly couldn't perform in surgery.  That is the situation that will cause a massive law suit, not Alex.

 

The thing that bothered me about Catherine calling out Bailey on this is that it is wholly inconsistent with how the show portrayed the event last season.  Did Bailey throw away the committee report recommending no additional punishment for Warren?  Bailey was portrayed as the tough boss going out of her way to make it clear she was not playing favorites.

I still can't get over how silly it is that the teaching is being called into question rather than the obvious issue of fraternization.  Alex didn't beat up DeLuca because Bailey never taught him how to do a certain stitch, Meredith didn't ruin Derek's trial because she she didn't know it was unethical, Izzie didn't steal a heart because she tripped and cut the LVAD wire, and so on and so on...

[timimouse]

22 hours ago, candall said:

Amelia might have had a strong scene with Alex, but my tolerance for Amelia had already expired by her fake airy refusals to have any conversation, or dinner, or awake-time with her newly betrothed soulmate.  (Pfft.)  La-di-da, no can do, Owen.  What's that?  No, I'm fine, Owen.  Fiiiine.  But, don't wait up, 'kay?

Someone said she'd be taking time off from the show to have a baby?  WHEN?

I completely agree with this. I can't even objectively say that her scene with Alex was so moving and well done as everyone else is raving about it because I'm so wary of Amelia. She. Talks. So. Much. Except when she should be talking to whom she should be talking to. I'm over her. And Owen. Actually, I was never on board with them so .... I can't wait for that to fall apart. Or better yet, they stay together and run off somewhere together and have all their babies. *rolls eyes*

54 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I still can't get over how silly it is that the teaching is being called into question rather than the obvious issue of fraternization.  Alex didn't beat up DeLuca because Bailey never taught him how to do a certain stitch, Meredith didn't ruin Derek's trial because she she didn't know it was unethical, Izzie didn't steal a heart because she tripped and cut the LVAD wire, and so on and so on...

I don't think we've quite seen the angle that they're going with this story just yet. Is it that the situations of the LVAD wire / Alzheimer's trial / DeLuca's beatdown that are being put into question or is it that the interns have not shined since the days of MAGIC, and so the TEACHING is what is being called into question. Alex has become one of the top paediatric surgeons, Christina is at the top of her game and even Meredith is supposedly portrayed as one of the top general surgeons at the hospital. Even within their year, Jackson was trained by Sloane and excelled in plastics. But the only intern I can think of that has really shined brightly since them was Shane, who left to work under Christina. So I think Catherine is now questioning why what used to be the best teaching hospital now seems to be producing sub-par results. 

[Gladrags]

On 10/27/2016 at 10:56 PM, Amethyst said:

Catherine was reading several files from GS employees (Meredith, Alex, Leah, etc) and she wondered why all these people were making so many mistakes, not why they were being allowed to work there.  Catherine believed the problem was how GS was teaching interns, and wanted to discuss the matter further with Bailey.  Bailey felt Richard should be part of the discussion, since he's the director, and Catherine looked uncomfortable, implying that Richard was part of the problem.

My BIG question about this storyline starter is: Why in the hell is Catherine looking at personnel files? She apparently has privileges to practice at Grey Sloan, but she's not a member of the board and she is not a member of the staff.  Even if she were a member of the board, she would not be privy to personnel files. She may be the chairman of the foundation that has a stake in Grey Sloan, but that doesn't give her access to personnel files, or nor does it give her the authority to even discuss how the hospital should be managing its personnel.

Catherine throwing her self-righteous weight around sets my teeth on edge. 

On 10/28/2016 at 9:39 AM, dmc said:

The first is it really annoys me that Grey's still doesn't get that in a real hospital the chief of surgery would not be hiring and firing people...this is a small thing but HR even in a hospital does this.  Miranda would make recommendations but this is NOT her decision.

That, too!

On 10/28/2016 at 1:31 PM, jaync said:

Why is Stephanie so pissy? Her place as a Neuro darling is still intact, and it's not like she wasn't a mess herself after her own relationship with an attending blew up.

Being pissy is pretty much Stephanie's MO. When the show pared down the resident staff a few seasons ago, it should have killed off her self-righteous self and kept Heather/"Mousy", a character I think had a lot more potential and didn't rely on being pissy to learn her job. 

On 10/28/2016 at 5:53 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I'm curious as to what the show is doing re the romantic relationships as well. 

Ugh. Not me. I wouldn't be unhappy if the entire season had no romantic relationships at all!

22 hours ago, mojito said:

I'd like to see Leah 2.0 be the one competent doctor who has everyone's admiration, attracts both men and women (and isn't attracted to anyone in the hospital), remains private about her private life, and has people coming to her with their secrets and problems while she reveals nothing.  I wouldn't want her to be smug or standoffish, just businesslike.  I would enjoy just for once having a character who isn't chock full of problems and insecurities, who shares too much private information, is haunted by some dark past (abuse, dead babies, poverty, other family tragedies, etc). Instead, she could be the target of speculation as everyone tries to figure out "what's with her?". Now that would be a breath of fresh air.

Could anyone like that last a minute at Grey Sloan? LOL

[Joana]

18 minutes ago, timimouse said:

I don't think we've quite seen the angle that they're going with this story just yet. Is it that the situations of the LVAD wire / Alzheimer's trial / DeLuca's beatdown that are being put into question or is it that the interns have not shined since the days of MAGIC, and so the TEACHING is what is being called into question. Alex has become one of the top paediatric surgeons, Christina is at the top of her game and even Meredith is supposedly portrayed as one of the top general surgeons at the hospital. Even within their year, Jackson was trained by Sloane and excelled in plastics. But the only intern I can think of that has really shined brightly since them was Shane, who left to work under Christina. So I think Catherine is now questioning why what used to be the best teaching hospital now seems to be producing sub-par results. 

In many ways it's also due to fraternization. These people frequently have some personal issues that come in the way of doing their job. We've seen Callie, Arizona, Amelia and Meredith (and possibly some others too) flat out refuse to teach some of their residents because they had a non-work related problem with them. There really is a toxic work environment at the SGMWH at times and it's high time someone took measures to deal with it. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, Gladrags said:

My BIG question about this storyline starter is: Why in the hell is Catherine looking at personnel files? She apparently has privileges to practice at Grey Sloan, but she's not a member of the board and she is not a member of the staff.  Even if she were a member of the board, she would not be privy to personnel files. She may be the chairman of the foundation that has a stake in Grey Sloan, but that doesn't give her access to personnel files, or nor does it give her the authority to even discuss how the hospital should be managing its personnel.

Catherine throwing her self-righteous weight around sets my teeth on edge. 

That, too!

Being pissy is pretty much Stephanie's MO. When the show pared down the resident staff a few seasons ago, it should have killed off her self-righteous self and kept Heather/"Mousy", a character I think had a lot more potential and didn't rely on being pissy to learn her job. 

Ugh. Not me. I wouldn't be unhappy if the entire season had no romantic relationships at all!

Could anyone like that last a minute at Grey Sloan? LOL

I only wanted to quote you on you responding to my post; I wouldn't hate if the show this season had no romances either. I guess when I say I'm curious I'm curious in... a confused way? As in I don't think they are going to do it well, it's why I said the character who he's hurt the most will be probably DeLuca 

[timimouse]

1 hour ago, Joana said:

In many ways it's also due to fraternization. These people frequently have some personal issues that come in the way of doing their job. We've seen Callie, Arizona, Amelia and Meredith (and possibly some others too) flat out refuse to teach some of their residents because they had a non-work related problem with them. There really is a toxic work environment at the SGMWH at times and it's high time someone took measures to deal with it. 

I agree, to a certain extent. I don't think the fraternisation is the direct cause, but more so that they let it be the cause. 
For example, when Sloane became Jackson's mentor, he was head over heels still in love with Lexxie and did have an issue with Jackson's relationship with her, however, he rose above it and became a good teacher. 

But you are right, in that, those attendings should've been called out on their flat out refusal to teach because of their personal biases. That's discrimination in the workplace and grounds for dismissal. Would be nice to see somebody get dismissed this season, but I hope it's not Richard. 

[Joana]

It's ironic that in a show that's supposedly all about female empowerment it's all the men (Derek, Mark, Richard) who are good mentors, while women are basically petty and spiteful wenches. Except maybe for Bailey, but she also became unrecognizable over time. 

[Dee]

Arizona's been portrayed as a pretty awesome mentor over the years imo.

[Black Knight]

On 10/28/2016 at 10:31 AM, jaync said:

I have to echo the praise for the Alex/Amelia scene. It's terrible that Amelia had to go through that with her baby boy. Is that what facilitated her addiction?

No, Amelia was an addict long before her nightmarish pregnancy. At the time she got pregnant, she had fallen off the wagon and was doing tons of drugs with her boyfriend, a fellow addict. Addison led an intervention for her (before the pregnancy was known), and while it didn't take immediately, Amelia and her boyfriend later decided to stop doing drugs. However, they also decided to do "one last time" and of course that was the time that got him killed. Then she found out she was pregnant and was happy that she'd have a child to remember him by (which was a bit much because they were together like a week - it was an insta-love thing)...only to have it go horribly wrong. But she stayed sober for the rest of her time on Private Practice.

I didn't mind Leah's return. I thought Arizona's reaction to her was strangely over the top given that we learned in a previous season that she has exes all over the hospital and was never fazed by that. Sure, Leah's a little different from her other exes in that she filed a complaint against AZ's then-wife, but when Arizona and Leah actually discussed it, Arizona agreed that Leah was right and continued teaching/working with her. They weren't on bad terms when Leah left. Plus Arizona and Callie aren't together anymore and Callie (who just got a HR reprimand we've never heard about again, so it didn't have any real effect on her career) lives in New York now, so there's really no reason for AZ to still care.

Maybe it's just a thing where Arizona feels embarrassed her marriage ended after all. It's not that she shouldn't have dumped Leah to return to Callie, it's that she shouldn't have returned to Callie at all; Leah is irrelevant in that. Callie only asked her back because her father guilted her into it; as such, it was entirely predictable that after some time she again decided she wanted out of the marriage. Callie should have had the emotional strength to tell her father to stay out of it, and Arizona should have had the emotional strength to recognize that Callie didn't really want her back and their marriage was permanently broken. All the "reconciliation" did was drag out the trainwreck of their marriage longer and cause both of them as well as their daughter additional pain.

[WhosThatGirl]

My memory is fuzzy but did the Leah and Arizona hook up happen after Arizona hooked up with Peyton Sawyer when she came to the hospital for that special baby surgery? 

[timimouse]

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

My memory is fuzzy but did the Leah and Arizona hook up happen after Arizona hooked up with Peyton Sawyer when she came to the hospital for that special baby surgery? 

OMG, I love that you called her Peyton Sawyer. LOL! I can never remember the actress' name either, so she will forever be "P. Sawyer" to me.

I do believe Leah was post-Peyton, because Callie and Arizona had already broken up.

[DearEvette]

On 10/29/2016 at 5:18 AM, lorbeer said:

Stephanie is sooo annoying. And it was really bitchy to say all those things about Leah.

But did she lie, though?  She was basically telling DeLuca the truth of the facts as we all knew it at the time.

I also found Jo's "oh it wasn't that bad..." apologia interesting, since at the time, Leah's filing of the harassment claim had Jo being all super pissy at everyone because it interfered with her relationship with Alex.  She went so far as to 1) accuse Stephanie of being the one who filed it in front of everyone telling her that she "just made my relationship with Alex illegal" and then 2) she spitefully told Steph that Jackson and April were still together --again in front of the rest of residents and said "You know what you do when your little heart gets broken?  You talk to your friends.  I'm the one being punished, you're ruining my life...blah blah blah..." in spite the fact that Steph told her a ton of times that the complaint was anonymous.   She then turned her pissiness onto Leah hen Leah made it clear that she was the one who filed the complaint.

I don't mind Leah's return since it does seem to be more about kicking off the "we're terrible teachers" storyline.  As long as she doesn't turn into Perfect Penny 2.0 then I'm ok.

[jaync]

Thanks for the background on Amelia, Black Knight.

Quote

If I'm remembering correctly, Arizona did let their relationship impact her teaching Leah.

Yeah, at least a couple of times - once when Arizona had only thought they slept together, and again after their make-out session.

I think Leah's goofy demeanor led a lot to the perception that she wasn't as competent as the other interns. IIRC, Derek defended her a time or two.

Quote

Callie can theoretically be off with Penny (who we think she shouldn't be with) and Arizona can be with Leah (who we think she shouldn't be with) and if Sara comes back, they will have had stories to tell with Arizona and a relationship but still be able to work back to Callie/Arizona (if that really was endgame).

Please, no with Callie/Arizona again...that dead-end road has been traveled enough. Not that Arizona and Leah need to be some big romance or anything, but they were obviously very sexually compatible (other characters have married based on less), so I'm totally down with them doing a little sumthin' sumthin' for however long.

Eta:

Quote

But did she lie, though? 

Maybe not, but Jo did disagree with her about Leah not putting in enough effort.

Edited October 30, 2016 by jaync

[Joana]

I never got the impression Leah was significantly worse than others in her class. IMO it was the writers' decision to make her the butt of all jokes and comic relief that made people not take her seriously. Her departure was annoying for me because the show used the classic bait and switch trick where we knew one of the residents was getting fired and we saw Jo screw up all day long while Leah came up with a miraculous solution to a patient's problem, and then it was revealed that's it's actually Leah who's getting booted. To me it didn't feel organic and mostly looked like a cop-out. It reminded me of Teddy's exit. 

But it's Grey's usual grandiosity that gets me. Leah can't now just be a good, competent surgeon deserving of a second chance. No, she has to be OMG so amazing the best resident evah!!!!

Edited October 30, 2016 by Joana

[Chas411]

Quote

 

I think Leah's goofy demeanor led a lot to the perception that she wasn't as competent as the other interns. IIRC, Derek defended her a time or two.

Was that not Mousy? Leah was aggressively ambitious in season 9. She wasn't even nice to the other interns. She was always a stage five clinger though and I think they decided to amplify that in season ten. I did think Arizona was a stone cold bitch to her and saw all the signs of a clinger so I blamed her for the lawsuit more then anything but at that Leah was just so obnoxious and overplaying the victim in a situation that she helped create for herself that I was ready to say goodbye to her. 

It doesn't surprise me that they've retconned her being fired as a mistake and now she's the best ever. With the random Jo backstory and Merlex turning into Gizzie 2.0 this whole show feels like a total retcon to what it was a few seasons ago.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Chas411

[flickers]

Leah did always seem a bit unhinged. Maggie better watch out. I don't think she is back at Grey Sloan just for the education.

[Chas411]

I'm sure she'll get her own special flashback focused episode complete with a voiceover where we find out what's she's been up to since leaving Grey Sloan. 

[RedheadZombie]

I'm bothered at the lack of orthopedic surgeon.  That should be Leah's specialty, and they can hire a very minor character who is her superior.  Kind of like the guy in cardio that wasn't Burke, Erica, or Teddy.  It was very irritating that Jackson was able to care for that leg without an orthopod.

[Daisy]

This is a dumb question - but if Catherine is a board member (i think she is but since she's not in town, Jackson represents the foundation's interests) - why can't she look at the personnel files? (serious question. because it didn't bother me  that she had them)

I am glad they are addressing the teaching - but what's funny they already kind of did this. Remember "We're number 12!" I think that's when Weber first started drinking, and they were realising things were slipping and there was the intern cutting society because none of MAGIC was teaching the others. then Christina taught Lexie how to do the whip stitch on the banana. 

but yah if Stephanie's your "best resident" (whatever), and everyone else around is floundering, and you have Alex who is great at peds (being taught by Addi + Arizona), and Meredith who was always great (Neuro/General), Christina (begat Shane) and April (trauma)... 

that's pretty sad. 

[Chas411]

Quote

I'm bothered at the lack of orthopedic surgeon.  That should be Leah's specialty, and they can hire a very minor character who is her superior.  

Given they wouldn't do it for Jo, a regular who worked on ortho with Callie for two seasons (mostly offscreen because it's Jo but still) id be really annoyed (not shocked because again it's Jo and ignoring all opportunities of development for her is a sport at this stage) to see them bring one back for a guest star.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Chas411

[RedheadZombie]

8 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Given they wouldn't do it for Jo, a regular who worked on ortho with Callie for two seasons (mostly offscreen because it's Jo but still) id be really annoyed (not shocked because again it's Jo and ignoring all opportunities of development for her is a sport at this stage) to see them bring one back for a guest star.

But Jo isn't experienced enough for a department head, which is why I was suggesting a minor character as head.  If they want Jo to be ortho, that's fine as well.  But it's a gaping hole in the staff to pretend ortho cases aren't happening.