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Tara Ariano

S11.E16: Bringing Up Old Ghosts

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In one of Vicki's previous blogs she says that the secret she has on Shannon comes out in Ireland.  In Tamra and Shannon's blog this week they say things get worse next week in Ireland.  They are already in the van on the way to the airport heading back home so this is where its all gonna happen next week.

In Tamra's blog she says that Shannon kept ordering Tequila for Tamra as well but she didn't drink it.  She left it on the table.  I think Shannon was just trying to have fun on the last night and that's why she kept ordering rounds of drinks for EVERYONE.  She didn't just order it for Kelly.

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I wonder if Meagan's general absence from "her" trip was because she already knew what the others had planned for Kelly and she didn't want to be involved. 

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Shannon shouldn't have ordered a shot for Kelly, as Kelly's first refusal should've sufficed. However, I can't see that Shannon did anything sinister, because as has been mentioned, the round she ordered wasn't just for Kelly. Also, unlike a mixed drink, you get what you see with straight liquor, so it wasn't as if Shannon was trying to disguise the amount of alcohol that was going to be served.

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I just read the book "Hillbilly Elegy" and, boy, Tamra sure let her "hillbilly" flag fly in this episode.  She is a cynical, distrusting, uncurious, hard person who thinks kindness is a luxury only a sucker can afford.  She also has the cognitive dissonance of thinking she and her deadbeat family deserves empathy and sympathy while offering none to others.

I don't think she is a sociopath.  I think she has it ingrained in her that either you get or you get got and she's not gonna get got.

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I don't drink, so forgive me for possibly misunderstanding, but didn't Shannon go so far as to tell the waitstaff to make the drinks stronger for the table. She did so away from Kelly so Kelly could not object. To me, that's fucked up. I don't even like Kelly at all, but that's not okay. The ladies hatched some plan to get Kelly so drunk that she digs herself into a bigger hole and that's deplorable! I was appalled by Shannon and Heather's behavior. 

The thing is, Shannon could've ordered straight grain alcohol served in a canoe and it wouldn't make any difference if Kelly simply didn't drink it.

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I think the ladies are revising history in their blogs.......

Shannon? I'm also 52.  PSA for all you ladies out there.

Chin hair? Pretty much becomes a fact of life.  And not just on your chin. Upper lip. Neck. They also can start growing hair better than your male friends.

So...To quote Lisa Rinna.....OWN IT!  Or wax it, but don't let someone belittle you for it.

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I have been trying to figure out why things went so far south for Kelly and I do believe, that like most normal human beings in civilized society battery however slight is not a defense for words.  I believe Kelly before the first night's dinner thought she and Tamra would sit down one on one and discuss the afternoon's events.  Not surprisingly Kelly thought she was owed an apology from Tamra for the physical contact.  I believe the act of camera slapping the producer's phone out of his hand while video tapping the event only led to Kelly's belief that Tamra may have committed the bigger wrong.   In other words CAMERA TIME of a huge proportion.  Tamra needs to take some of the heat as she either refused to film with Kelly one on one or didn't see Kelly's side.

The unwanted alcohol is just a huge red herring.   No one had anything to say about it at dinner that night.  It only became an issue after they left Ireland.  Production put it into play to most likely divert from some bad Kelly behavior we have yet to see.  Leave it be Kelly and Vicki.  No  one can predict what or how Kelly would have acted had she imbibed.  Red herring.  The dinner was uneventful except one little thing-Shannon and Heather started talking about giving Tamra a party.  Obviously Kelly would be invited since she was sitting there-I just don't think she was ready to celebrate Tamra after not receiving an acknowledgement and apology for pushing her. 

So Kelly's error was not going to dinner after the incident with Tamra.  Tamra was digging her heels in and most likely refusing to film with Kelly.  I don't think  until the following day at the BBQ, Kelly realized she wasn't going to get a one on one moment with Tamra.  She signed a contract and I do believe she really wanted to deliver the apology one on one and actually discuss her side.   Leave it to Vicki to try and do a last minute three way with Kelly, Tamra and herself on camera or off Vicki wanted to make it about her and return to top dog status.  Again Tamra refused to cooperate.

Each RH is assigned a producer and I think Kelly was given some bad advice.  It doesn't excuse her mouth or the fact she thinks her marital issues are front burner material (they aren't), look how easily Vicki and Tamra dispense advice about keeping the status quo with her marriage.

The aftermath with the interviews I do believe the message was being sent to Kelly they didn't want to include her but the real snake in the situation was Vicki exacerbating the situation by saying Kelly had been talking smack about Tamra.  Way to facilitate the peacekeeping Vicki. 

After the hallway crap, where once again Kelly's perception may have differed from the facts she had painted herself into a corner.  The bus ride was unbelievable and Kelly needs to learn, time and place.  I have never seen anyone shoot herself in the foot as many times as Kelly has-no one had a duty to be nice to her or even engage with her.  She just doesn't get it and should have moved past the fact there was no even acknowledgement from Tamra that she pushed her.  Why she has to take everything to the mat is beyond me.

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I had the suspicion that when Kelly was talking to Michael on the phone, crying, he told her not to drink anymore, as she brings that trouble on herself, and she agreed with him. Hence, when she showed up the next day all grumpy and pouty at the picnic she was very vocal about not drinking.

However, is the timing not strange that that same morning, Miss Fancypants Dubrow is suddenly all decked out with her Chanel crossbody flask, all fireball'ed up and raring to go? And that the same night Miss Shannon becomes obsessed with ordering double shots, and inquiring of Kelly more than once if she would care to join in?

I think production filled them in that Kelly was not planning to drink, and pushed those ladies to tempt her. It was all too obvious; there was definitely premeditation involved somewhere. Heather and Shannon read their lines none too subtly.

If Vicki was a man who flashed, kissed and rubbed up members of the opposite sex, he'd probably be charged with a crime. 

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1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

In any event, with the exception of Meghan, the behavior exhibited by these women on this trip was disgusting.  Drunken idiocy, making fun of Irish accents to the faces of the people who are speaking, drunken screechfests in the hotel hallway.

Even Heather sort of did the bolded this episode. It was quite clear that the Bailey's guy wanted them to put on the protective gear. No need to make him repeat his phrase 10 times. Even if you didn't understand the exact words, you got the gist. You're not an idiot. It's just rude to make someone feel uncomfortable like that. 

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If Shannon had not ordered drinks for Kelly when she was ordering for the rest of the table, Kelly would have felt more excluded from the group - Shannon was just trying to make Kelly feel inclusive... 

(uh huh...)

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5 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

If Shannon had not ordered drinks for Kelly when she was ordering for the rest of the table, Kelly would have felt more excluded from the group - Shannon was just trying to make Kelly feel inclusive... 

(uh huh...)

By inclusive I'm assuming you mean drunk......

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1 hour ago, yogi2014L said:

No I believe she has two daughters and one son with Simon

Interesting note that when Tamra met with Heather and her daughter at the Make a Book place, Tamra's daughter was there. I thought it was nice that the girls could participate together even if one wasn't seen.

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1 hour ago, DammitHardison said:

I would have loved if the cow guy's last name was O'Toole, coming directly after the scene of Meghan asking half the residents of the county if that was their name.

I was waiting form someone to make some sort of naughty joke like, "Yah, I be Pheel My Tool!". Well, you get the idea.

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And I'm back to hating Gramballs.  When Meghan is the only redeemable person in the episode, something is seriously wrong.  And I actually like Meghan.  

Heather and Shannon...DO NOT LOWER YOURSELVES to Gramballs' level please!  I want to be able to continue liking you two but after last nights episode you are seriously making it hard for me.  Knock it off please.

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12 minutes ago, Ubiquitous said:

I was waiting form someone to make some sort of naughty joke like, "Yah, I be Pheel My Tool!". Well, you get the idea.

Mudhen didn't want to know about the porn star in the family, Dickie O'Toole.

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1 hour ago, jaync said:

Shannon shouldn't have ordered a shot for Kelly, as Kelly's first refusal should've sufficed. However, I can't see that Shannon did anything sinister, because as has been mentioned, the round she ordered wasn't just for Kelly. Also, unlike a mixed drink, you get what you see with straight liquor, so it wasn't as if Shannon was trying to disguise the amount of alcohol that was going to be served.

What I don't understand is why it HAD to turn into 'reindeer games' kinda scenario.

Who wants a drink?

You, you, you, Kelly?

Nope not having anything.

Okedoke, can you make them doubles?

Thanks!

As much as I love women, I cannot figure out why things have to be so complicated when it comes to simple manners, protocol or etiquette.

They need to put a clause into their contracts that everyone gets one free punch (a nose flick don't count) - Let the producers have a roll of fucking quarters on hand - and let shit get settled THAT way.

This shit of antagonizing each other like children would stop, if you knew you were going to get your Emm Effing lights punched out at anytime the cameras were on.

I am going to start watching ATL. THEY know how to quell a beef, for sure.

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1 hour ago, dosodog said:

Chin hair? Pretty much becomes a fact of life.  And not just on your chin. Upper lip. Neck. They also can start growing hair better than your male friends.

Posters made fun of Carolyn Manzo for admitting to face shaving. I was glad she spoke about it. I've noticed that as I've gotten older my face has gotten peach fuzzy so I "resurface" ;^) too once a month.

Really off topic but my neighbor is a make-up artist who has older celebrity clientele in the Malibu area. I've seen some close up shots and they could use the Manzo resurfacing too because make-up doesn't look good on a fuzzy surface. Just saying, it really works.

Back on topic: Kelly really does turn into a pit bull when she feels threatened. Poor Shannon, who I think is struggling with the aging thing and being fuzzy can be part of it. Sigh...its getting hard to pick out the good guys anymore.

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2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

 No should mean no, period.  

Amen.  I'm not a fan of Kelly, but jesus, what Shannon did is not only disgusting and reprehensible, it's drink spiking (altering / amplifying someone's drink with drugs or added alcohol, without their consent) which is illegal.  Such a sick thing to do.

Edited by film noire
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39 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Mudhen didn't want to know about the porn star in the family, Dickie O'Toole.

Is he the famous Irish chef known for his Beef Strokin-off?

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59 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Even Heather sort of did the bolded this episode. It was quite clear that the Bailey's guy wanted them to put on the protective gear. No need to make him repeat his phrase 10 times. Even if you didn't understand the exact words, you got the gist. You're not an idiot. It's just rude to make someone feel uncomfortable like that. 

I actually don't think she was making fun of him. I think she legitimately could not understand him and was unfamiliar with the phrase he was using. He said something along the lines of "tog off" or "tog out." Tog or togs meaning clothing  is not commonly used in American English. Tog off or tog out is probably a phrase that was last used in America 50 years ago in Boston. This is not a thing we say in this country.

I'm a little shocked that Heather and Shannon tried to set Kelly up. Kelly is such an unstable mess that you didn't need to set her up to fall off the wagon, the girl was in the process of taking a flying leap off the wagon. She had a puss on at Bailey's, a puss on at Powerscourt, and a puss on at the final dinner. She said she wasn't drinking, but basically a text message was enough to induce her to come down to the bar. Raid the minibar if you want a drink. But we never really see her drinking alone, which is something we'd see Jacqueline L do all the time on NJ. Kelly likes the social aspect of drinking, but drinking makes her antisocial.

I'm a little curious about what would have worked to cut the tension between Kelly and the other women. Perhaps if Kelly had taken Tamra aside and apologized for what she said and then given all the women a blanket apology for her words and behavior when she's drinking and "I want to enjoy this trip and I'm sure you want to enjoy this trip so I'm not drinking for the rest of it." 

Heather said something in one of her talking heads about how Kelly had established a pattern of being obnoxious and insulting them and then apologizing for it later. This is the reason that I think that an apology that referenced her issues with alcohol might have gone further because it shows that Kelly understands her pattern.

The timeline for this show is so fucking screwy. I'm wondering if this was one of those periods where Kelly is being an asshole every other day. I'm not sure when they started filming, but I believe that Meghan's IVF procedure was sometime in February or March. So 70s party was before that?!? The sushi party seemed to be right before the IVF. Shannon's vow renewal/birthday was in March. Heather's book launch was in late April. A week beforehand TMZ caught Kelly being a drunken bigot. The Glamis accident was in April. The trip to Ireland was early May. It is interesting that in 2 or 3 months of filming her first season that she managed to piss everyone off.

I hate that people compare Kelly to Brandi. Brandi was never this stupid. For most of her time as a real housewife, Brandi has been drunk and messy, but it was also focused and targeted. Brandi may have overplayed her hand and overestimated her appeal, but she isn't the stipid dipshit that Kelly is. Kelly is just an unstable drunk.

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32 minutes ago, film noire said:

Amen.  I'm not a fan of Kelly, but jesus, what Shannon did is not only disgusting and reprehensible, it's drink spiking (altering / amplifying someone's drink with drugs or added alcohol, without their consent) which is illegal.  Such a sick thing to do.

With all due respect, Shannon was ordering double shots even though Kelly said she did not want it, I get it, it's at best peer pressuring

But she did not spike her water nor did she hold Kelly's nose & poured shots down her throat like Vicki did to Tamra on the pub crawl

As we saw the shots stayed on the table for those that did not want it

Edited by Jezebel97
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I'm sorry, dislike Kelly all you want, condemn her words all you want, but what was done to her on this trip was inexcusable.

Tamra was upset about Kelly's words about her relationship with her daughter. What does Tamra do? Hit her. Inexcusable. Yes, Kelly owed Tamra an apology, but Tamra owed Kelly an apology for putting her hands on her. And the fact that no one mentioned this puts me on Kelly's side of the whole thing. Tamra doesn't have to accept Kelly's apology, but I now believe that Kelly felt ganged up on and threatened. Tamra, as usual, took it to that next level.

Now, we have a grown woman forcing drinks on another grown woman who we all can see has an issue with alcohol. The healthiest decision Kelly could make for herself and her group is to not drink. So what did they do? Ignored her express words that she wasn't drinking, ordered tequila for her, and forced her to drink it. Shannon's actions were despicable. And what she did is the kind of thing that should anger Fancy Pants Dubrow who's all about propriety. But no. Heather says nothing. Fuck off, Heather, and take your faux outrage with you. I hope after your stint on this show that no store in Europe lets you roam their aisles.

Heather is a giant hypocrite. To quote Oscar Wilde: "Morality is simply the attitude we adopt toward people whom we personally dislike." Total outrage and clutching of pearls at Kelly's words, none at the physical violence by Tams and the alcohol shoving by Shannon.

They gaslighted Kelly hardcore. I don't think I'd want to hang out with her, but I will not defend disgusting actions like this by that group of women. If a man did to Kelly what Shannon did to Kelly, there would be talk of abuse and a huge outcry. And the complicity of the other women in all this is horrifying.

And Vicks is the worst friend ever. She's done as far as I'm concerned. What a lazy opportunist.

Edited by thesupremediva1
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20 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Not even close.  Shannon ordered a drink for Kelly she did not spike, enhance it or amplify it.  

The law defines drink spiking as making a drink stronger than the victim is aware of, which is what Shannon did. She did not say to Kelly "By the way, it's hard to tell in that rocks glass full of ice, but that's a double shot you're drinking" -- she changed the order and hid the change from Kelly -- if she were a man doing the same thing,  the act would be condemned and rightfully so.

Quote

With all due respect, Shannon was ordering double shots even though Kelly said she did not want it, I get it, it's at best peer pressuring

I don't want to go off on a tangent, but if you google drink spiking, you'll find info about the law.

Edited by film noire
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15 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Now, we have a grown woman forcing drinks on another grown woman who we all can see has an issue with alcohol. The healthiest decision Kelly could make for herself and her group is to not drink. So what did they do? Ignored her express words that she wasn't drinking, ordered tequila for her, and forced her to drink it. Shannon's actions were despicable. And what she did is the kind of thing that should anger Fancy Pants Dubrow who's all about propriety. But no. Heather says nothing. Fuck off, Heather, and take your faux outrage with you. I hope after your stint on this show that no store in Europe lets you roam their aisles.

 

How exactly did they force Kelly to drink the ordered shots?  I'm not being cheeky, I am assuming I missed something or am not remembering something.  I remember shots literally being poured down someone's gullet last week, but that was Vicki shoving them down Tamra's throat.  I don't remember something like that happening to Kelly.  I'm also not saying what they did to Kelly wasn't gross.  I just do not remember them literally forcing her to drink.

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How exactly did they force Kelly to drink the ordered shots?  

This is actually the most sinister part of the whole thing - when Shannon went to the waiter and said to make it a double of what they ordered. So what was supposed to be one glass of tequila on the rocks was doubled. When you order something for someone and shove it in front of them, after they have told you they don't want it, you have forced it on them. Whether, it's steak, water, booze... once it's sitting in front of you at a restaurant and it's on the tab, it's been forced on you. The intent was clear and completely malicious.

Had this been a normal dinner, Kelly might have felt empowered to argue or refuse the drink. But she was already on thin ice - which was exactly why she said several times that she was not drinking. Refuse the drink and cause an argument, drink what's ordered for her and get entrapped and labelled mentally unstable. Those were literally Kelly's only choices. These women took a person in a weak, lonely position and forced something toxic on her. If a man did that to a woman, Andy Cohen would be answering for this on The View tomorrow. 

Naked Wasted was sick and twisted, and so was this. And this is not the first time Tamra has gotten physical with someone, either. Repercussions need to occur for someone's physical actions. Words are just words. Christ, I'm so sick of people getting away with physical wrongs because someone "hurt their feelings." Use your words! Come back at them with another insult or walk away. The passes for violence are just not cool. See: all the Gorga fights on RHNJ.

Oh and way to go Vicks for pointing out Heather's tried and true tactic of making her friends all mutual friends believe her least favorite person of the moment is mentally ill. Lawd, I have no respect left for that bitch.

Edited by thesupremediva1
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4 hours ago, ElDosEquis said:

Amazing how NO ONE stood up to Shannon to tell her to fuck off regarding her peer pressuring Kelly to take a drink?

Kelly may be a mean, nasty, train wreck of a drunk? But I suspect that she only gets THAT wasted rarely, otherwise she'd be in rehab already?

The Fireball/Champs/Tequila swilling assholes are the ones with the drinking problem. Every fucking shot with pleather had a glass of something in her hand. I'd much rather hang with a Kelly kind of drunk, than the people that drink all day - or carry a flask - I just don't see how people can drink all day long and stay healthy or have a good grasp of the world around them.

As a condition of dropping one of Michael's restraining orders against Kelly, she had to go to counseling and AA meetings for 6 months. I think Kelly is a prime candidate for rehab. This issue isn't so much about how much you drink or use (though there is that component), but if your drinking causes disruption in your life. And hers does. Because of her drinking, impulse control, and anger, Kelly has had multiple restraining orders, been court ordered in counseling, and has impacted her "fake real housewives friendships." She needs a really good rehab that can address her substance and her mental health issues.

I think she should go to rehab as soon as possible. She's given Michael a ton of ammunition if he wants to pursue divorce again and file for full custody. I think losing custody of Jolie would send Kelly around the bend.

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Shannon's and Tamra's blahgs are pretty interesting. There's more to this story than what we've been shown.  I wish someone behind the scenes would release the cutting room floor scenes super secretly online somewhere.

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2 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I had the suspicion that when Kelly was talking to Michael on the phone, crying, he told her not to drink anymore, as she brings that trouble on herself, and she agreed with him. Hence, when she showed up the next day all grumpy and pouty at the picnic she was very vocal about not drinking.

However, is the timing not strange that that same morning, Miss Fancypants Dubrow is suddenly all decked out with her Chanel crossbody flask, all fireball'ed up and raring to go? And that the same night Miss Shannon becomes obsessed with ordering double shots, and inquiring of Kelly more than once if she would care to join in?

I think production filled them in that Kelly was not planning to drink, and pushed those ladies to tempt her. It was all too obvious; there was definitely premeditation involved somewhere. Heather and Shannon read their lines none too subtly.

If Vicki was a man who flashed, kissed and rubbed up members of the opposite sex, he'd probably be charged with a crime. 

Or production told them to be more inclusive with Kelly, who knows lol.

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

The unwanted alcohol is just a huge red herring.

Leave it to Vicki to try and do a last minute three way with Kelly, Tamra and herself on camera or off Vicki wanted to make it about her and return to top dog status.  Again Tamra refused to cooperate.

Each RH is assigned a producer and I think Kelly was given some bad advice.  It doesn't excuse her mouth or the fact she thinks her marital issues are front burner material (they aren't), look how easily Vicki and Tamra dispense advice about keeping the status quo with her marriage.

The aftermath with the interviews I do believe the message was being sent to Kelly they didn't want to include her but the real snake in the situation was Vicki exacerbating the situation by saying Kelly had been talking smack about Tamra.  Way to facilitate the peacekeeping Vicki. 

After the hallway crap, where once again Kelly's perception may have differed from the facts she had painted herself into a corner.  The bus ride was unbelievable and Kelly needs to learn, time and place.  I have never seen anyone shoot herself in the foot as many times as Kelly has-no one had a duty to be nice to her or even engage with her.  She just doesn't get it and should have moved past the fact there was no even acknowledgement from Tamra that she pushed her.  Why she has to take everything to the mat is beyond me.

^ Edited for brevity.

Totally agree with all above, especially the bolded.  And so Vicki, who has been waiting for the opportunity to get back at Shannon and show everyone who's boss, uses her TH to spin this into Naked Wasted 2.0 - not gonna fall for it, nope, no way. :)

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42 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I actually don't think she was making fun of him. I think she legitimately could not understand him and was unfamiliar with the phrase he was using. He said something along the lines of "tog off" or "tog out." Tog or togs meaning clothing  is not commonly used in American English. Tog off or tog out is probably a phrase that was last used in America 50 years ago in Boston. This is not a thing we say in this country.

I'm aware of that. I've never heard "tog off" before. But if I'm standing with a man in front of a table full of suits and boots, I think I'd get what "tog off" meant. It was clear, to me anyhow, what he wanted them to do. No matter how many times he made him repeat it, his accent wasn't going to change. It just felt rude, to me. 

 

43 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

She said she wasn't drinking, but basically a text message was enough to induce her to come down to the bar.

But did she ever come down to the bar? Tamra said she sent the nasty text and then Kelly really went off. But the only thing I saw was Kelly upstairs, in the hallway, in tears - not really yelling or being nasty like she can get. I almost wonder if Kelly didn't respond and Tamra went on up there. 

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6 minutes ago, Cranky One said:

Shannon's and Tamra's blahgs are pretty interesting. There's more to this story than what we've been shown.  I wish someone behind the scenes would release the cutting room floor scenes super secretly online somewhere.

Blaghs!  I love it.  Very fitting description,  Kadooz!

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I'm aware of that. I've never heard "tog off" before. But if I'm standing with a man in front of a table full of suits and boots, I think I'd get what "tog off" meant. It was clear, to me anyhow, what he wanted them to do. No matter how many times he made him repeat it, his accent wasn't going to change. It just felt rude, to me. 

 

But did she ever come down to the bar? Tamra said she sent the nasty text and then Kelly really went off. But the only thing I saw was Kelly upstairs, in the hallway, in tears - not really yelling or being nasty like she can get. I almost wonder if Kelly didn't respond and Tamra went on up there. 

I don't think Kelly returned to the bar.  Vicki, Tamra and Heather were drinking in the bar at one point.  It seems from what we saw that Kelly came out in the hallway.  She looked like she was wearing sweats or sleeping attire.  

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They're so dumb that their hate of Kelly made her look great in comparison to their antics this episode.

Most disappointed in Heather. Expect that low down dirty set up from both Tamra and Shannon. Shannon hates to be wrong and hates even more for anyone to like someone that she doesn't. 

The best part that showed they were trying to set Kelly up (besides the obvious pushing drinks by Shannon and Heather) was the comment from Shannon where she said she told Heather to film Kelly being crazy. Well when We see heathers footage - Kelly isn't acting crazy at all, isn't drunk, isn't saying mean things and all she was doing was talking loudly in a hallway about then trying to set her up. Didn't seem like crazy talk at all compared to her REAL crazy moments that we've already seen in other episodes.

 

So basically they all met in the bar, came up with this plan to film her later that night and the first bait to draw her out of her room was the bait text from Tamra. So obvious. 

I think they met near Kelly's room because Tamra probably told her to come out and we know Kelly doesn't like being called a liar. Of Tam was texting some nonsense she said Vicki told her that Kelly said and it wasn't true we know from least episode that this is enough bait to get kelly to react and come out to argue her point and explain that she didn't lie.

I hope Andy calls them on all of that during the reunion. 

Edited by lilsadone
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29 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

This is actually the most sinister part of the whole thing - when Shannon went to the waiter and said to make it a double of what they ordered. So what was supposed to be one glass of tequila on the rocks was doubled. When you order something for someone and shove it in front of them, after they have told you they don't want it, you have forced it on them. Whether, it's steak, water, booze... once it's sitting in front of you at a restaurant and it's on the tab, it's been forced on you. The intent was clear and completely malicious.

Had this been a normal dinner, Kelly might have felt empowered to argue or refuse the drink. But she was already on thin ice - which was exactly why she said several times that she was not drinking. Refuse the drink and cause an argument, drink what's ordered for her and get entrapped and labelled mentally unstable. Those were literally Kelly's only choices. These women took a person in a weak, lonely position and forced something toxic on her. If a man did that to a woman, Andy Cohen would be answering for this on The View tomorrow. 

Naked Wasted was sick and twisted, and so was this. And this is not the first time Tamra has gotten physical with someone, either. Repercussions need to occur for someone's physical actions. Words are just words. Christ, I'm so sick of people getting away with physical wrongs because someone "hurt their feelings." Use your words! Come back at them with another insult or walk away. The passes for violence are just not cool. See: all the Gorga fights on RHNJ.

Oh and way to go Vicks for pointing out Heather's tried and true tactic of making her friends all mutual friends believe her least favorite person of the moment is mentally ill. Lawd, I have no respect left for that bitch.

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I don't see forcing drinks on someone as forcing them to drink and I was specifically asking how they forced her to drink since that was the phrase used.  You can force into my possession all the drinks you want and I'm just going to let them sit on the table in front of me if I don't want to drink -- doesn't matter if it's a double or a single if I'm not drinking.  Maybe I'll take a couple of sips to make it look like I'm drinking, but if I don't feel like it I'm not going to.  To force me to drink you're going to have to physically force the drink into me or disguise as something other than a glass of tequila on the rocks (double or single, I'll still be able to tell it's tequila).  

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Maybe it's a matter of semantics

At this point, it is. I thought the act itself of ordering the drink and putting it front of her was despicable. Shoving liquid down a person's throat? Worse, yes, but this isn't Waterboarding in Fallujah with Real Housewives. What Shannon did was malicious, aggressive, threatening, and downright domineering, whether Kelly drank the tequila or not.  She disregarded Kelly's agency as a person. And let's be honest, Kelly didn't need any help going over the edge and losing her cool.

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Totally agree that everyone's treatment of Kelly was despicable, with exception of the absent Meagan, but, drinking, whether or not a drink is put in front of you, is a personal responsibility.

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17 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

Yes, I think Tamra and Heather have a bond that transcends class and money. I think they both get off on tormenting people and putting people down. Heather more subtly because she's slightly smarter, but they are both two pigs in a pod when it comes to this show...like when the creepy serial killers find each other and team up...they both found each other and 'get' each other and relate. Really sick stuff...

 

Folie a deux!

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I'm so confused by seeing all these comments about Kelly's drinking problem and rehab etc right alonside "if someone orders you a drink you don't have to drink it"

 

So if someone is an alcholic or had a problem with abusing alcohol and you insisted on ordering them a drink even after they said no..  Thats ok??? Wtf. If they were Kim Richards everyone would be totally appalled that someone ttempted her with them drink to begin with

These housewives say Kelly has a drinking problem and they're the same ones pushing drinks on her. Thats not right and is totally inexcusable no matter which housewive you normally like. 

 

If someone really has a problem with drinking then just ignoring it after its sat in front of you is probably a bigger battle then you imagine. It's not right

Edited by lilsadone
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I see that Racist Vile Kelly has gone to the Racist Vile Brandi school of Pity Me 24/7. When you fight dirty, going out of your way to scream and insult others on camera using the most vulgar and hurtful words you can think of, saying a simple "Sorry!" later doesn't cut it. So don't sit there and cry over not being "forgiven" or part of the group when you decide it's time for them to treat you like their best friend. Especially when you have repeatedly gone into the gutter with everyone. 

Vicki's not sexy or funny. I never want to hear about her breasts or perfect vagina. 

Funny when Vicki was on the outs with everyone she buddied up to Kelly and talked all kinds of shit about them. Now Racist Vile Kelly is about to dish the dirt. I can't wait for Cancer Scammer to get her just desserts and the hell off the show next season.

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At this point, it is. I thought the act itself of ordering the drink and putting it front of her was despicable. Shoving liquid down a person's throat? Worse, yes, but this isn't Waterboarding in Fallujah with Real Housewives. What Shannon did was malicious, aggressive, threatening, and downright domineering, whether Kelly drank the tequila or not.  She disregarded Kelly's agency as a person. And let's be honest, Kelly didn't need any help going over the edge and losing her cool.

Kelly was screwed either way.

Let's flip the script here?

IF Kels had shown up at dinner wanting to get drunk, I tend to believe the consensus would have rolled their eyes into the back of their pretty twisted heads, circled the wagons and prepared for her bad behavior? Then they would have sipped their drinks while waiting for the shoe to drop.

Either it was going to be Kelly didn't want to drink with us, that bitch -or - Kelly got drunk and acted like an asshole.

There was no way to win that scenario  - and her sour puss just gave them more ammo to get digs in?

"Oh, she was in a bad mood/she sure was bitchy/she was acting weird".

As most of us have stated, we all join different teams as an episode/season goes on.

In a strange way, I am rooting for Kelly to pull her head out of her ass and redeem herself, sometimes you need to hit bottom to start your trip back up the ladder?

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20 hours ago, ivygirl said:

DJ, I'd like to dedicate a song to my TV friends Shannon, Tamra, Heather, Meghan, Vicki, and especially Kelly. Can you play Mary J Blige's "No More Drama"? I love KISS-FM!

 

What did I just watch? 

- 5 minutes of beautiful scenery

- 7 minutes of Kelly saying "I didn't do anything" over breakfast to Meghan

- 7 minutes of Tamra and Vicki predictably freaking out over animals

- 4 minutes of Vicki predictably draping herself over the nearest man

- 7 minutes of Heather and Shannon trying to get Kelly to drink (seriously, what WAS up with that? Messed up, and I usually like Shannon)

- 14 minutes of screeching and low-light smartphone shakycam

- Plus, a Fireball cameo

- 7 minutes of Vicky pretending to be "wacky" for the cameras by trapping herself between the van's back door and car behind it, riding a bicycle up & over a curb, fake vomiting for no reason, etc.

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34 minutes ago, thesupremediva1 said:

At this point, it is. I thought the act itself of ordering the drink and putting it front of her was despicable. Shoving liquid down a person's throat? Worse, yes, but this isn't Waterboarding in Fallujah with Real Housewives. What Shannon did was malicious, aggressive, threatening, and downright domineering, whether Kelly drank the tequila or not.  She disregarded Kelly's agency as a person. And let's be honest, Kelly didn't need any help going over the edge and losing her cool.

I don't know.  I think most 3 year olds can handle a comparable situation and maintain their sense of agency.  I've been to dinner with more than my share of 'em and no matter how many glasses of milk I ordered, if they didn't want to drink they were not going to just because it was set in front of them.  Maybe I could negotiate milk drinkage with them via having control over the dessert order, but just putting the glass in front of one that didn't want it didn't magically make them drink it.

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Granted, I don’t watch the witches of the OC very often (I am a NYC girl), but I happened to catch this episode…Lucky Me!

Kelly is the kid we all knew from school that never fit in.  Either from the wrong part of town or the richest part of town – didn’t matter.  These types of kids were always being bullied or resorted to doing the bullying themselves.  I don’t know why – they were just always inappropriate. NO matter what the situation.  You felt sorry for them, but at the same time you didn’t want to be the one that hung with them.  Nobody wanted to be tainted by their bothersome and irritating weirdness…to me that is Kelly.  As we say in the South, “Bless her heart.”  Another way of saying, “OMG, you are so f(*king weird.  Stay away from me.”

I agree with the posters that said Shannon’s behavior disappointed.  I too thought she was more mature and kind than the Two Hounds of Hell known as Tamara and Heather. Guess not.

So next week Vicki and Tamara go to the mud wrestling pit.  As a woman of a certain age (49ish…*cough* really 52) when I grew up, if you displayed the type of behavior these ill bred biatches do, you were considered trash.  Frankly, both Vicki and Tamara scare the crap out of me from a physical perspective.  Both act and look like they would “cut a bitch” (TM unknown.) In any case *Ouch.”

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6 minutes ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

- 7 minutes of Vicky pretending to be "wacky" for the cameras by trapping herself between the van's back door and car behind it, riding a bicycle up & over a curb, fake vomiting for no reason, etc.

The horking! How could I forget the horking!

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As much as I love women, I cannot figure out why things have to be so complicated when it comes to simple manners, protocol or etiquette.

Do you mean these women? Because they're not representative of us all.

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The thing with tequila shots though is that a "double" is just bigger in volume.

Exactly - the effects are totally dependent on how much one chooses to drink. Shannon didn't spike anything, nor did she ask for the drinks to be made stronger. 

Edited by jaync
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20 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

 

I'd like to bring these prissy-ass bitches to MY farm and put them to work for about a month.  They'd be begging to go back into the milk parlor!

 

A month?  An hour of real work on a real farm and they would all be running for the shuttle van back to the airport.  And "Fitness Queen" Tamra would be the first one on the shuttle.  There were lots of (Irish immigrant) farmers in my family, and I really don't know how they did what they did.

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6 minutes ago, jaync said:

Do you mean these women? Because they're not representative of us all.

The NYC/BH/ATL women stayed at home this time?

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6 hours ago, Cherrio said:

Vicki imo, is far worse than Kelly in that a cancer scam is something I would never forgive or forget. It just crosses THE line.....period.

         

 

I agree.  And I thought Shannon agreed.  But she's back to being buddies with Vicki, giggling and even trying to French kiss her.  It seemed like Shannon, Meghan and Heather were going to be hold-outs, but they eventually caved.  Too bad no one stood their ground on this subject.  Not continuing to talk or think about it necessarily, but just remaining detached from Vicki because of it.

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