S14.E35: Anne Coulter, Bob Kerrey, Andrew Sullivan, Rebecca Traister, Bernie Sanders

[GHScorpiosRule]

Political commentator Ann Coulter, Former Neb. Sen. and Gov. Bob Kerrey, Author Andrew Sullivan, Author Rebecca Traister, Vt. Sen. Bernie Sanders

 

YES! Shebeast is the top of the show interview guest and NOT on the panel! That alone has me excited for tonight.

Edited October 15, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Hanahope]

So easy to fast forward through her when I watch tomorrow.

[scrb]

But Sanders again?

[vesperholly]

Coulter has officially lost her shit.

[maraleia]

Forget Coulter, I wanted to wring Sullivan and Kerry's necks for their lack of knowledge about the issues.

Also, was it me or did Bernie look like he was out of it as soon as he said his talking points?

Rebecca was the only good part of the entire night because she had answers for every topic that was brought up.

[Maherjunkie]

Oh like she would spend shit on the poor!

[attica]

How awful must it be to be Sullivan, when every errant comment is An Attack On Your Tender FeeFees. He defended the delicate feelings of Rs no less than three times. Which, in practice, means that it's far worse to call somebody a racist than to be a racist (tendencies Sullivan has displayed more than once in his public career, so maybe his antennae are up.).  I want to get a clip to play on a loop of Bernie calling out his libertarian bullshit. (Oh, and btw, his being a libertarian is of decidedly recent vintage, so that's even more reason to scoff at him.)

Bob Kerrey seems like he's still stuck in the 90s. Yikes.

I ff'd through most of Coulter, but I'd like to make two observations, both shallow: 1) her hands are scary, like Freddy Krueger. 2) her hair extensions are freaking glorious.

Rebecca's my girl. She was tremendous.

[alias1]

Bill is just no match for his girlfriend AC.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  rinse and repeat.  I don't get why he even has her on.  

Kerry was incoherent.  I can't stand Sullivan anymore (I used to sort of like him).  I wish Rebecca Traister could have talked more.  Bernie was Bernie.

[ruby24]

Overtime irritated me. Andrew said that Hillary lost the debate on every issue because she's incapable of connecting to people like Trump can.

First of all, she did NOT lose that debate, check the polls. Second, the people Trump connects with are a rabid minority of bloodthirsty crazies- that is not the majority of the country, he repulses everyone else.

Andrew also said she won't be a good president because 80% of the job is connecting with people, which she's incapable of doing. I know he just hates her and always has, but I don't think having charisma is the most important part of the presidency. I think it's temperament, and charisma is a bonus. We've had successful presidencies from men who were not shining rock stars, their skills lay in other areas.

[Rapunzel]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Overtime irritated me. Andrew said that Hillary lost the debate on every issue because she's incapable of connecting to people like Trump can.

First of all, she did NOT lose that debate, check the polls. Second, the people Trump connects with are a rabid minority of bloodthirsty crazies- that is not the majority of the country, he repulses everyone else.

Andrew also said she won't be a good president because 80% of the job is connecting with people, which she's incapable of doing. I know he just hates her and always has, but I don't think having charisma is the most important part of the presidency. I think it's temperament, and charisma is a bonus. We've had successful presidencies from men who were not shining rock stars, their skills lay in other areas.

This was very well put.

I have friends that Dems, Independents and Republicans. I'm a Dem myself. The one thing all my friends and I agree on with this election, regardless of our political affiliation, is that none of us want Trump to become President or be anywhere near the Presidency. We all actually agree that the man is a misogynist, racist, arrogant, piece of shit that should just go and move to Russia if he likes Putin and his policies so much. Maybe he hasn't because he can't manage to exploit their tax code enough to favor him.

I loved the speech Michelle Obama gave about how women should never be treated the way that Trump has been caught treating them. It was heartfelt and full of emotion and you could tell that, like many of us women out there, she has experienced some degree of sexual harassment in the past.

Not too long ago, I worked for a company that was very much a "good old boys" club. I was brought on several trips, especially to China where we were trying to acquire a company, and, in addition to being able to speak Chinese and help translate, I was also expected to sit at the head table next to the head executive from the Chinese company and allow him to hit on me. Thankfully, this guy was fairly decent and didn't try to cross too many lines, especially as I had just gotten engaged at the time. However, being brought along as the token blonde American in her early 20s to entertain the men was kind of disgusting. I have a joint JD and MBA rom an Ivy League school and am an attorney, and this is how I was treated. My company's own employees treated me even worse whether we were in the states or overseas, and the level of sexual harassment that I had to endure was just appalling. I am disgusted by Trump and I wouldn't share an elevator with him or even want to be in the same building as him.

Loved the T-shirts that Bill had and also cracked up when he called Trump "President Pussy Grabber" or something to that effect (pardon my language - the "p" word is not one I like, but since Trump used it and Bill was basically using to make a point, I used it here). I also liked his comparisons of various women from various movies in pant suits who may have not been the most emotional people, but said that he would much rather have someone like that (then showed a photo of Hillary in one of her pantsuits) in the Whitehouse than Trump.

I've always loved this show, and I live in Southern CA and  have been to see it live. It's always entertaining, and though Bill has said some offensive things about women himself (no where near Trump levels, however), I still love him and he always makes me laugh.

I got my mail in ballot this week here in CA, and it is a no-brainer as to who is getting my vote.

[ruby24]

I understand how appalled and incredulous Bill is that Trump is STILL going to win 20 states and that the real sadness is even after he loses we have to live in a country where half the people think this monster should be the president.

I've been struggling with the same question for months, and despite Bernie and Andrew and that senator's phony explanations about reaching the people in the red states...I don't buy any of it. I'm with Rebecca on this. I think you HAVE to lay this at the feet of racism and sexism, because what Bill was saying about how the Republicans could win close to 50 state landslides in his lifetime against people who were NOT crazy...there was a time when Democrats could do the same thing.

You have to go back further though. Johnson did it in '64 and then of course in the Depression years, and this was because Democratic policies were better for working people, as they always have been. But what happened after 64? The civil rights movement, the civil rights acts, and the Southern Strategy employed by the Republicans for the next however many years. It was never based on policy, it was a culture war that signaled to white voters that Democrats were the party that was on the side of people of color, and women's rights after Roe v. Wade, etc.

And I don't think Republican voters have ever let go of that and Rebecca again was right when she said Trump is the culmination of the absolute outcry of outright in-your-face racism and sexism that is no longer a dog whistle. It is what these people want. They blame women and minorities for their own miseries in life (as Republicans have led them to believe for decades) and the last thing they want to see is a black man and now a woman leading this country and representing progress that, in their minds, victimizes them.

Kerrey kept trying to say, oh, good people are voting for Trump and it's all about policy. Bullshit. Trump has no policies. He's an expression of their cultural anger towards progress, just like Rebecca said. And look, I know Bill tried to qualify it by saying of course some will never be reached, and I agree that there's a significant percentage of normal, reasonable Republicans out there who are not racist and sexist deep down and know that Trump is a catastrophe, but a lot of them are voting for him anyway. That part I cannot understand. All I can hope is that many of them WILL be responsible people and simply stay home on Election Day. I think Rebecca was also right in Overtime, that we don't really know how this is going to play out in terms of polls or results, given how much is unknown in this election.

But I think there's a deep seated, cultural anger in Republican voters that isn't there on the Democratic side, that prevents them from ever considering the other party, no matter how horrific the person at the top of their own ticket is. And it's all about identification and culture, has nothing to do with policy. We have angry liberals too, but they are far more policy and issue oriented, from what I can tell (although sexism is a very real problem on both sides that we've seen play out this year that does disturb me). It makes me sad, but our country was built on a white male patriarchy, and it takes a LONG time for progress to make its way through to everyone. The backlash and the resistance to one party's leap forward by nominating the first black president and the first woman president will be fought ever more viciously. They're not a majority, but sadly it's still a significant percentage that is resistant to progress at ALL costs, and Trump is the expression of their rage.

Bernie was okay, but he veered into his stump speech too much. I can't believe Bill will be off for a week right in the middle of this madness.

Edited October 15, 2016 by ruby24

[candall]

11 hours ago, SierraMist said:

Bill is just no match for his girlfriend AC.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  rinse and repeat.  I don't get why he even has her on. 

I've never had much success with the confrontation technique of speaking so quietly your opponent must stop yelling in order to listen, but it DEFINITELY doesn't work with Ann Coulter, Bill. 

Anyone who has to resort to "Oh, give me a break!" more than once to refute an assertion surely depends on the advantage of extra sound volume, though.  I think her desperation was showing a bit. 

 

I believe Maher when he reminds everyone (every time) that they're old friends--he looked amused and affectionate, as she trampled him.  And probably there are fewer opportunities to promote her book with the Trump=Awesome title since all the interview slots are booked up with the man's molestation victims.

 

 

I see Kellyanne Conway so often now that I thought it was interesting to watch how much more deftly Coulter wields the tactical deflection she's been honing for decades.  AC's the OG of bulldozers.

Edited October 15, 2016 by candall
clarified which speaker I called desperate.

[Duke Silver]

I love how AC brazenly employed the stratagem that has gained more traction by Trump surrogates over the past week or so: dismissing Trumps’s utter moral depravity, claiming it’s all about the “issues” as opposed to character.  This coming from operatives tied to the so-called Party of “family values” draws a cackle from me.

I mean, I get it.  There’s no defending Trump in terms of his character.  But the hypocrisy is stunning to me.  The recording comes out, and Conway & Co. deploy the “let’s talk about Bill Clinton's sexual imbroglios again…even though he’s not the one running for President” tactic.  Effing laughable.

***sorry for straying so much, but I was open-mouthed (even though it probably should not have surprised me in the least) when AC sat there & said as long as Trump was for the Wall & against TPP, he can be a sexual predator as far as she’s concerned.  We’ll see other surrogates use this more & more during the stretch run; they’ll simply shrug off Trump’s (deplorable) character.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Duke Silver
fixed typos

[GHScorpiosRule]

I only made it five minutes before my finger hit the fast forward when SheBeast sat there, talking shit. But that's par for the course with her. I'm mean and petty, but I want someone to throw a pie in her face again when she opens her mouth. I wish that the audience would have just LOUDLY booed every time she opened her mouth. In my opinion, that's not going low.

Why was Kerrey even there? Nothing he said made any sense and he was worse during Overtime. Speaking of which, I was so HAPPY SheBeast wasn't there to take over and spew more of her shit.

I loved that there was no overtalking last night, and that the men kept their mouths shut when Rebecca was speaking. Love her.

And for once, Bill didn't piss me off.

Andrew Sullivan can just shut up and go away please. I mean, the stuff he was saying about the cultural divide? The racism? Refusal of accepting those with different religions? THAT is something the Republicans do.  The Democrats, as far as I've seen, are open to diversity and equality. Just looking at who supports them, and the diversity of the people at their conventions and speeches and those at the Republican conventions showed me that. Unless I missed something. It's true that Democrats tend not to toot their horns when they get shit done and cave, but Sullivan really lost me with his whole "cultural divide" word salad.

I loved New Rules.  And I especially loved Bill's "Why?" when he brought up Ken Bone and his sudden 15 minutes of fame.

I really wanted at least three of those T-shirts!

Edited October 15, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[iMonrey]

I don't think I've ever seen Ann Coulter quite this desperate and panicked. She's always over the top but this time there was an uncharacteristic mania about her. Of course she'd rather talk about this issues, her candidate is losing his shit right and left. It's gotten so bad she now has to resort to lies, which honestly is not usually her M.O. But when Bill brought up Trump re-tweeting a white supremecist she said "he did not." Uh, yes he did, and the proof exists. Then she went on to question whether David Duke even exists! That's some deep level of denial right there.

I'm sorry, but Bernie Sanders can go fuck off now. He's been on the show twice since losing the nomination, and his "support" for Clinton is half-hearted, at best. He'd rather promote his latest pet project than speak directly to his rabid supporters who swear they will never vote for Clinton. And even when Bill (thankfully, finally) brought up the 55% of "Bernie of Bust" bros that say they will never vote for Clinton, Sanders dismissed that as being untrue, saying "when they look at this issue . . ." that's the same thing Ann Coulter said!

Both Ann Coulter and Bernie Sanders (the former, admittedly, more disingenuously) both seem to be operating under the absurd notion that their supporters are reacting in a rational and logical manner. Which is obviously untrue. These are people reacting on emotion. They aren't looking at the issues they are just screaming at the top of their lungs, holding their breath until they turn blue, and basically throwing a child-size temper tantrum.

I agree with Bill about religion for the most part but he's wrong that you shouldn't have to placate the devout. You just have to spell out for them that despite their freedom to believe whatever they wish they have no right to impose their beliefs on others, period. You don't have to be insulting about their religion.

Overtime wasn't too bad. Neither Sanders nor Coulter were there. Sullivan started in on his usual anti-Hillary shit but Bill shut him down pretty good. 

I have to say, this election has really energized Bill. He's been on point in a way he hasn't been for years.

[scrb]

Nobody for one minute buys the garbage that AC was spouting about Trump helping the poor and working class.

Not even the Deplorables give a shit about that.  Trump says it to try to get the vote of displaced and discouraged workers in key swing states but that's about it.

Nothing he has done in his career points to him being some kind of working-class champion.  Same goes for AC.

[Victor the Crab]

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU BILL for calling out those that made Ken Bone a celebrity and for slamming him for not making up his mind on who to vote for president, as I have stated elsewhere. Of course, instead of calling his New Rules title Comfortably Dumb, it should have been Bone Head.

Oh, and go fuck yourself hard Ann Coulter you piece of shit!

[attica]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I'm with Rebecca on this. I think you HAVE to lay this at the feet of racism and sexism

Completely agree. The twisting and flip-flopping of the right on issues once espoused now tossed away makes sense through no other lens. Cleek's law is the governing principle, as is the notion that what denizens of red states hate is always going to be stronger than what they 'believe in.' Trying to parse out explanations about 'disaffected workers' is fool's play.

[cpcathy]

I laughed out loud when AC said she wanted to talk about the issues, and that Trump was all about the issues. He doesn't know ANY issues, except, "Wall." And he's dropped that.

[UYI]

Just a minor note: It's actually Ann Coulter and Bob Kerrey. The "e" in Bob's name ran away to join Ann's name, I guess. ;)

[DollEyes]

 Re this week's episode, Ann Coulter was even more obnoxious than ever. The more she talked, the crazier she sounded, even for her, especially when she defended Trump re Pussygate. Loved Bill's calling her out on her hypocrisy on that score. Like Bill said, if President Obama had said those things instead of Trump, Coulter wouldn't just want him imprisoned, she'd probably want to give him the chair. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who trivializes/brags about and/or jokes about sexual harassment/ sexual assault, calls his accusers "ugly," says his own daughter is "a hot piece of ass," judges grown women and little girls on their looks and who plays the victim when he gets caught-by his own doing- shouldn't even be elected dog catcher, much less President.

 The T-shirt bit was funny. My faves were "Taking A Trump," "I Tried To Grab Trump's Penis, But Couldn't Find it" and of course, "#WhinyLittleBitch." Whatever good will I had for Andrew Sullivan for his voting for Hillary was destroyed by his comments afterwards. Sullivan's claim that Hillary won't be able to work with Republicans was bullshit because she has worked with them several times, including Rudy Giuliani post 9/11. About Sullivan's belief that Hillary lost the debate because according to him "[she] can't connect with people," is he kidding!? In the debates I saw, Hillary kicked Trump's stupid, sorry and sleazy ass. As for Hillary's so-called "inability to connect with people," if that were true, she wouldn't be ahead in the polls, so Sullivan can have a seat-or 1,000.

  Bill's New Rules about undecided voters was on-point. How anyone can still be undecided between Trump and Clinton after this week alone is beyond me. As Bill concluded, if there's a choice between letting Trump and his ilk run things and a cold bitch in a pantsuit, I'd choose the latter. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by DollEyes

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

 The T-shirt bit was funny. My faves were "Taking A Trump," "I Tried To Grab Trump's Penis, But Couldn't Find it" and of course, "#WhinyLittleBitch."

Same! I'd add that I would also wear the one with the Orangutan. I can't remember the caption, though.

[candall]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree with Bill about religion for the most part but he's wrong that you shouldn't have to placate the devout. You just have to spell out for them that despite their freedom to believe whatever they wish they have no right to impose their beliefs on others, period. You don't have to be insulting about their religion.

Yes.

All panel personalities and affiliations aside, one person said [paraphrase]:  when you routinely ridicule religious faith and you have no respect for the fact that it's possible to have a different view of the universe from your own, you must surely be aware that you widen the gap and people feel marginalized in a way that makes it difficult for them to hear your message.  And the second person responded:  "There is no way to talk about religion, frankly and honestly, without ridiculing it, because it's so fucking stupid."

It was jarring and very strange to run up against such a pure example of intransigence during a show where the theme was "don't let the country go under because you're too stubborn or butthurt to compromise--put aside your love and regret for Bernie, put aside Hillary's lack of warmth, put aside the party on your voter registration card; everybody needs to exercise a little flexibility for the common good to keep the monster at bay."

 

(Having followed Maher for longer than five minutes, I was already familiar with his position on religion, but tonight he sounded too much like Ann Coulter when she reduced Islam to "go forth and kill.")

Edited October 15, 2016 by candall
had to make repairs when the quote boxes went rogue

[paigow]

Slightly off-topic, but I saw an Apprentice loser with Wolf Blitzer on CNN. She works for Trump as an advisor. Winning is not a condition of employment.... 

[wknt3]

I thought this was actually a pretty good show with the exception of Coulter. This was worse than usual badness since it seemed like neither of them really had their heart in it and were just going through the motions. At least she wasn't on the panel. Which is probably why it was pretty good at least as far as being a civil discussion that didn't devolve into a bunch of shouting. And the comedy bits were solid. I hope this trend continues after the break.

[atomationage]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I would also wear the one with the Orangutan. I can't remember the caption, though.

"Trump is my son, but I'm still voting for Hillary"

I thought Coulter seem de-caffeinated and didn't mind her as much as usually, but this Sullivan character and Kerrey grated equally.   I don't think either one of them can picture a woman other than a First Lady in The White House.  Maybe not even Bernie.   Rebecca Traister put them all to shame.  

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't think I've ever seen Ann Coulter quite this desperate and panicked. She's always over the top but this time there was an uncharacteristic mania about her.

YES. I noticed about 45 seconds in and came here to see if anyone else did. I've always been firmly on the side of her not believing a word of what she says, but no one can troll better than her, but even she couldn't do it this time around. Which only makes me feel more right. I can't even get mad at her because she was so transparent. She was way off her game. 

I would lay decent odds that she votes for Clinton anyway. A Clinton presidency is way way better for the AC brand. 

Based on my astute analytical skills to answer Bill's question: If Obama was caught saying that he would be impeached by the House by the close of business. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by ganesh

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I only made it five minutes before my finger hit the fast forward when SheBeast sat there, talking shit. But that's par for the course with her. I'm mean and petty, but I want someone to throw a pie in her face again when she opens her mouth. I wish that the audience would have just LOUDLY booed every time she opened her mouth. In my opinion, that's not going low.

Every time she's on I hope the audience just stays completely quiet--which almost happened this time. The applause at the end was so anemic that Bill had to order everyone to clap and say that was part of "we go high." But it's not. The audience doesn't have to yell and cheer to be polite. Just let her talk into silence and finish in silence--if Bill forces them to clap then do a polite golf clap. I feel like that would bug her the most because she's not getting the attention and will just look desperate if she begs for boos.

 

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Unless I missed something. It's true that Democrats tend not to toot their horns when they get shit done and cave, but Sullivan really lost me with his whole "cultural divide" word salad.

He doesn't want to admit that the whole "we're being insulted" and "they treat us like poor peasants" is their defense after making a whole campaign around putting all those other people in their place. Because while there are certainly liberals who'll be insulting and rude and talk about rednecks etc., they know that by and large they're not sitting around and making fun of them. The humiliation they feel is more internal. Some of it's an understandable response to changing times, but since they keep voting for things that will make things worse for them it's kind of a no-win situation. They don't want to hear HC give a hopeful plan for turning around areas with new kinds of manufacturing. They want Donald Trump pretending he's going to force time to go backwards so it's the 19th century and coal is King again--by law. And everyone is just forced to say global warming doesn't exist etc.

I mean, the advice of not being rude just because you can be is good, but there's plenty of people who bend over backwards to be polite about things like religion--in fact there's plenty on the left who are religious themselves--and it doesn't help. The idea that it's all about them being disrespected kind of falls apart when you've got female Trump supporters happily defending his total contempt for women. They don't just want respect for themselves, but also contempt for others.

[atomationage]

I forgot to mention about this Ken Bone character, did he go to that town hall meeting wearing makeup?  Because it sure looked like it in the picture that Bill showed, or do the people who run the debates provide makeup to the people who ask questions?

I think Kerrey's coal miner's lament was probably the most ridiculous thing that any of the panelists said.

Edited October 15, 2016 by atomationage
Kerrey

[ganesh]

I can't really get behind Kerrey's "there's good people who support Trump." No, I would say, by this point, supporters are either ignorant, or have been blinded by the rage, hatred, and jealousy over Obama, and Obama actually doing well as president. I would bet a lot of them are playing lip service to Trump. We'll see after the election how many are going to throw him under the bus. 

Hey, Bob, you know how you can get that stuff done? Talk about free community college so people can upgrade their skills for better paying jobs in green energy (and I include nuclear). 'Because their father and grandfather worked there" isn't an argument. 

I heard Coulter wasn't on OT because she ate too many crabcakes and got an upset stomach.

Edited October 15, 2016 by ganesh

[SlackerInc]

What did Bill say when Bernie was telling the story about taking the bus up to Montreal? Something about Bush?

I agree with Andrew Sullivan that Bernie's rhetoric goes too far and delegitimizes our democracy.

I like Bob Kerrey.  I got to meet and chat with him for a while when I was working at a literary agency in the late 1990s. But I'm with ganesh.  I don't agree with Kerrey or the other liberals I've heard say that many Trump voters are good people. If you are willing to vote for him at this point, and you have an IQ over 80, you are really not a good person. You may have good traits, you may treat your friends and family well, but you're doing a very bad thing when you have all the information you need to know better.

Edited October 15, 2016 by SlackerInc

[magdalene]

Why is Maher taking off a week right now??? He can take time off after the election for crying out loud.

Is AC some weird and ironic "performance artist" who is costumed like an Eighties call girl? Or does she really believe the crap she says??? Her segment was bizarre.

[ganesh]

On the show, Bill was even surprised they had next week off.

[AuntiePam]

I think when Kerrey said "there are good people who support Trump", he meant "good" people -- people who take care of their families, go to work every day, are involved in the community, people who volunteer, who help a neighbor, who rescue animals, who care for elderly relatives, babysit their grandkids while mom works  -- people who do good things. 

The thing is, I know a lot of people like that, and many of them will vote for Trump.  I don't understand it, because they are good people.  None of them would countenance what Trump does if someone in their family did it.  It's like they have some kind of blind spot when it comes to political figures, as if the person on the TV asking for their vote is held to a different standard than the average Joe (or Jane).

[vesperholly]

10 hours ago, candall said:

All panel personalities and affiliations aside, one person said [paraphrase]:  when you routinely ridicule religious faith and you have no respect for the fact that it's possible to have a different view of the universe from your own, you must surely be aware that you widen the gap and people feel marginalized in a way that makes it difficult for them to hear your message.  And the second person responded:  "There is no way to talk about religion, frankly and honestly, without ridiculing it, because it's so fucking stupid."

But roles matter here. Bill is a political commentator and comedian, though. Why should he respect religion? He has no responsibility to do so and no personal or professional mandate to "unite the clans" or whatever. I'm an atheist and the massive religiosity in America makes me feel marginalized. One thing I really appreciate about Bill is his outspokenness and yes, disrespect of religion. We need critics.

The people who should respect religion are our elected leaders who are voted in to represent all Americans. Secondly, the government and its auspices, which should be neutral and fair above all.

[amsel]

34 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

I think when Kerrey said "there are good people who support Trump", he meant "good" people -- people who take care of their families, go to work every day, are involved in the community, people who volunteer, who help a neighbor, who rescue animals, who care for elderly relatives, babysit their grandkids while mom works  -- people who do good things. 

The thing is, I know a lot of people like that, and many of them will vote for Trump.  I don't understand it, because they are good people.  None of them would countenance what Trump does if someone in their family did it.  It's like they have some kind of blind spot when it comes to political figures, as if the person on the TV asking for their vote is held to a different standard than the average Joe (or Jane).

There were plenty of "good" people that took care of their families, went to work, were involved in the community, volunteered, helped their neighbors, rescued animals, cared for elderly relatives, babysat their grandkids, who also were segregationists, protested when black people were allowed to go to formerly all white schools, cheered when police dogs were sent to attack people demanding equal voting rights, and voted for candidates that wanted to continue Jim Crow. And those people are still around and are voting for Trump. Those people are racist. And they are not good people. 

[33kaitykaity]

5 hours ago, magdalene said:

Why is Maher taking off a week right now??? He can take time off after the election for crying out loud.

Is AC some weird and ironic "performance artist" who is costumed like an Eighties call girl? Or does she really believe the crap she says??? Her segment was bizarre.

The little black dress is part of her act, her schtick.  

Bill lamented at the beginning of the panel that the show that they were off next week.  It sounded like he had no control over the schedule and was upset about not being on, saying he might do a podcast or something the night of the debate.  

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, amsel said:

There were plenty of "good" people that took care of their families, went to work, were involved in the community, volunteered, helped their neighbors, rescued animals, cared for elderly relatives, babysat their grandkids, who also were segregationists, protested when black people were allowed to go to formerly all white schools, cheered when police dogs were sent to attack people demanding equal voting rights, and voted for candidates that wanted to continue Jim Crow. And those people are still around and are voting for Trump. Those people are racist. And they are not good people. 

I agree with this completely. Southern confederates in the 1860's also thought they were good people fighting for a good cause. I'm sorry, but...it's just not the case.

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, amsel said:

There were plenty of "good" people that took care of their families, went to work, were involved in the community, volunteered, helped their neighbors, rescued animals, cared for elderly relatives, babysat their grandkids, who also were segregationists, protested when black people were allowed to go to formerly all white schools, cheered when police dogs were sent to attack people demanding equal voting rights, and voted for candidates that wanted to continue Jim Crow. And those people are still around and are voting for Trump. Those people are racist. And they are not good people. 

I have known "good" people like this.  They are perfectly "nice" and love their grand children, and they have good pensions and live in lovely homes, and really don't have anything to worry about in their daily lives.  But they do believe that "America is going in the wrong direction", they are anti- unions (even though it is because of the unions they have their good pensions),  they are anti- immigrant and anti-Muslim, and anti-everything which is not like them.  For years Fox "News" has been their only news source, and they parrot Fox News commentators back at you with gems like "We must get control of our borders", etc. etc..  They hate Obama and anybody named Clinton with an irrational passion.  And they long for the "halcyon" days of the Fifties when white men owned the world.  They wouldn't watch Bill Maher  if his was the only TV program available to them.  They have bought into what Trump  is selling hook, line and sinker, and they excuse and rationalize everything about the Trumpster.  There are a lot of them out there, especially of the Baby Boomer and the remaining Great Depression generation. 

[wknt3]

On 10/15/2016 at 0:11 AM, SierraMist said:

Bill is just no match for his girlfriend AC.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  She blathers on and on.  He says lets move on.  rinse and repeat.  I don't get why he even has her on. 

He has her on because he thinks she's hot, she's fun offstage, and because they have a long and productive professional relationship. Back in her panel days she provided him with a heel who could be insulted pretty freely, would provoke the shoutfest pundit wrestling matches that TV people like, and helped him sell the idea that he was a brave iconoclast who would allow anyone on his show and confront anything. And she also inspired lots of imitators, most of them not as good as she was and therefore even better as target practice for Bill and whatever comedian was on that day, and many of them who were also attractive women who didn't believe their own BS and were great fun at the parties and clubs after the show.

This time though it really felt like it was simply an obligation for both sides. Bill had no energy. Coulter either. She usually revels in her role as a professional troll as well as arguing whatever she needs to (I think it's her training as a lawyer showing through) but this time there was no fire. It didn't seem any different than any other Trump supporter without the usual creativity and flair for provocation and insults. I really can't see this getting internet views or doing anything for either of them.

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, 33kaitykaity said:

Bill lamented at the beginning of the panel that the show that they were off next week.  It sounded like he had no control over the schedule and was upset about not being on, saying he might do a podcast or something the night of the debate.  

According to the HBO schedule, next Friday at 10pm is scheduled as Real Time With Bill Maher Tba #1, so a re-run I guess.  It's not like it's being bumped off that schedule by something else.

 

[candall]

5 hours ago, vesperholly said:

But roles matter here. Bill is a political commentator and comedian, though. Why should he respect religion? He has no responsibility to do so and no personal or professional mandate to "unite the clans" or whatever. I'm an atheist and the massive religiosity in America makes me feel marginalized. One thing I really appreciate about Bill is his outspokenness and yes, disrespect of religion. We need critics.

All true, but at the moment I think we're in "special circumstances" territory, where he also seems to be trying very hard to effect change.

 

You disagreed with my stated opinion and made a cogent opposing argument, which caused me to consider our different viewpoints and ask myself whether I was wrong--which I was. (Turns out I'm only seeking a temporary exemption until the polls close.)   I would have been much more resistant to reaching that conclusion, and you would have been less effective, if you'd prefaced your point by saying I must be some kind of fucking moron.

 

Is it ever smart to offend people before trying to persuade them to a particular course of action?  The "faithful" aren't simply snake-handlers and chicken-swingers.  Some of them are liberal Bernie Forever diehards who watch this show. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

About Sullivan's belief that Hillary lost the debate because according to him "[she] can't connect with people," is he kidding!?

Not that it makes any difference, but what Sullivan actually said is that she lost the debate on the issues. Which is also nonsense, but from the perspective of a Republican, then of course, he disagreed with all her positions. 

I'll go so far as to give Sullivan credit for acknowledging that voting for Clinton is the only "grown-up" thing to do, and for making an appeal to independents and libertarians not to waste their vote this election cycle.  But when he starts getting into Clinton's so-called shortcomings, as he did on Overtime, it's all very subjective and irritates me because he's just perpetuating the same Republican garbage they've been smearing her with for the past 30 years. The only validity in their criticisms is belief that they are true because you have heard them so often you just concede them as fact.

Quote

He has her on because he thinks she's hot, she's fun offstage, and because they have a long and productive professional relationship. 

You know, they have this weird symbiotic relationship where they validate each other. She acknowledges that she owes her career largely to Bill Maher from her appearance on his old show, Politically Incorrect. And he certainly validated her by reminding everyone she predicted that Donald Trump would win the nomination back when the notion of it was still considered laughable. It's why she wrote that Trump book she's hawking now. 

And look at the favor he did her by having her on in the interview segment so she could continue promoting that book in spite of Trump's current downfall. They appeared to have had a pre-arranged agreement that he would let her talk about "the issues" instead of "the scandals" because when he started off on the sexual harassment charges, she as much as said "you know that's not what I'm here to talk about." 

I just can't imagine what Ann Coulter thinks she gets out of being on this show. She knows this is not her audience. She knows the studio audience will only tolerate her, at best, and that the people watching at home are not going to buy her book. She doesn't really need to punch her conservative card by appearing on this show, people already know her brand. Is she really arrogant enough to believe she's going to change anybody's mind, or is she just doing Bill a favor by playing contrarian?

Edited October 16, 2016 by iMonrey

[ganesh]

Probably doing Bill a favor because they've known each other for so long. While I don't believe for a second that Coulter believes a word of what she's hawking, I think she genuinely enjoys trolling. You just can't be that good at it otherwise. 

[AuntiePam]

12 hours ago, amsel said:

There were plenty of "good" people that took care of their families, went to work, were involved in the community, volunteered, helped their neighbors, rescued animals, cared for elderly relatives, babysat their grandkids, who also were segregationists, protested when black people were allowed to go to formerly all white schools, cheered when police dogs were sent to attack people demanding equal voting rights, and voted for candidates that wanted to continue Jim Crow. And those people are still around and are voting for Trump. Those people are racist. And they are not good people. 

Of course those people aren't good people.  Kerrey wasn't saying that racists are good people and neither am I.  My argument is difficult to defend, since virtually every Trump supporter I've seen interviewed has spewed despicable, ignorant garbage.  I very much doubt that any of them are volunteering at soup kitchens. 

But I believe (I have to believe) that the Trump supporters who attend his rallies and wear the hateful tee-shirts are on the fringe, and that there are good people -- people who aren't racist, sexist, xenophobes -- who will vote for Trump.  Maybe they'll do so because they really believe his promises, or because they don't trust Hillary, or they think an "outsider" will "clean up Washington".  We know they're wrong, but it's also wrong for us to dismiss all of them as contemptible.  Even Hillary only said half of them were deplorable.  The other half aren't thinking critically, or even clearly, but they're not evil people.  Except for the politicians and pundits and surrogates -- they're evil, because they know better.

[ganesh]

I don't see how that argument applies *now* though. They said this as much on the show, right from the opening monologue, after the release of the bus tapes, second debate with Trump looming over Clinton and threatening to jail her, and women confirming that this behavior was actual in fact and not locker room talk. Actual real live footage that Bill showed of Trump saying he's going to date a 10 year old in 10 years multiple times. 

I can buy that they aren't racist, sexist, etc., but they probably are, as Bill has said a lot of times, "low information voters;" people who have consistently voted against their self-interests. As Bill pointed out with that absolutely moronic Ken Bone, and again brought up that nearly every metric on how we've judged the economy for generations says we're doing well. 

Quote

 

I have known "good" people like this.  They are perfectly "nice" and love their grand children, and they have good pensions and live in lovely homes, and really don't have anything to worry about in their daily lives. 

 

This underscores it. They're fine for the most part. Complacency tends to afford one the freedom to complain about things. Median income is up? Mine isn't. Now I'm mad! Dude, you're pulling in $95K for a family of 4 in Southern Illinois. They're not coming to foreclose on the house anytime soon. 

While Sullivan said that the adult thing to do is to not vote for Trump, the rest of his arguments fall flat. "People" aren't concerned about this issue or that for the most part because they don't know enough about it.

Saying they aren't evil really isn't the fundamental problem. Ok, they aren't. So what? They're either willfully ignorant or just don't care about much beyond their immediate circle. So they'll vote for someone whose policies are detrimental to largely everyone. Isn't that just as bad? 

Edited October 16, 2016 by ganesh

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I can buy that they aren't racist, sexist, etc., but they probably are, as Bill has said a lot of times, "low information voters;" people who have consistently voted against their self-interests. As Bill pointed out with that absolutely moronic Ken Bone, and again brought up that nearly every metric on how we've judged the economy for generations says we're doing well. 

I think they also have very handy explanations for how their positions aren't racist etc.--this is another thing that's been repeated and repeated for years. I know one person, for instance, who's very much about being a very sweet Christian. She would never consider herself racist--and she's adopted a couple of orphans, too, who are not being white. She doesn't see a conflict between them being her children and thinking Trump's stop and frisk policies are great. I assume she believes that since her children have been brought up properly (to see Christians as the real persecuted ones and that it's wrong to be gay etc.) they will be proof that there is no racism in policing. And of course, she's the one protecting the unborn children and you don't get more "good" than that!

Really, the kind of thing Kerrey was talking about seems to come down to them happily believing the Fox News spin on things--these problems don't really exist, or if they do they, themselves, are the victims of them. Not only do they consider themselves good, they consider the other people bad and at fault for these problems. I'm not so sure how much, deep down, they really buy this stuff, especially when it's coming out of Trump's mouth because he's so insulting. But then, I've never been sure how much slaveowners believed their own justifications either. It feels to me like they must be lying, but that's just my perspective.

[vesperholly]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

This underscores it. They're fine for the most part. Complacency tends to afford one the freedom to complain about things. Median income is up? Mine isn't. Now I'm mad! Dude, you're pulling in $95K for a family of 4 in Southern Illinois. They're not coming to foreclose on the house anytime soon. 

No empathy - Bill even did a New Rules segment on it. It's never important Until It Happens To You. Just like a few of my lovely friends who are pro-life because they all have lovely supportive families and can't imagine a world where a baby is a curse.

[DXD526]

Quote

The applause at the end was so anemic that Bill had to order everyone to clap and say that was part of "we go high." But it's not. The audience doesn't have to yell and cheer to be polite. 

That's what I came here to post. I didn't like Bill coercing the audience into clapping. Going low would have been booing and jeering through Coultergeist's whole segment and not letting her be heard. The audience didn't even come close to doing that, so it did go high. Asking for applause is asking for something above and beyond 'going high'. Applause has to be earned and she didn't do that, IMO. If I'd been in that crowd, I wouldn't have clapped for her.

[wknt3]

17 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You know, they have this weird symbiotic relationship where they validate each other. She acknowledges that she owes her career largely to Bill Maher from her appearance on his old show, Politically Incorrect. And he certainly validated her by reminding everyone she predicted that Donald Trump would win the nomination back when the notion of it was still considered laughable. It's why she wrote that Trump book she's hawking now. 

And look at the favor he did her by having her on in the interview segment so she could continue promoting that book in spite of Trump's current downfall. They appeared to have had a pre-arranged agreement that he would let her talk about "the issues" instead of "the scandals" because when he started off on the sexual harassment charges, she as much as said "you know that's not what I'm here to talk about." 

I just can't imagine what Ann Coulter thinks she gets out of being on this show. She knows this is not her audience. She knows the studio audience will only tolerate her, at best, and that the people watching at home are not going to buy her book. She doesn't really need to punch her conservative card by appearing on this show, people already know her brand. Is she really arrogant enough to believe she's going to change anybody's mind, or is she just doing Bill a favor by playing contrarian?

What does she get out of being on the show? When she's at her "best" unlike this week her fans see her as sticking it to that smug liberal asshole Bill Maher and upsetting lefties. It may not be her audience watching the show, but in today's world of social media and YouTube it's not necessary for your target audience to be watching every week if you get the right aggregators to share your appearance. Plus political firebrands are always more effective and popular the more they stir up the other side.

17 hours ago, ganesh said:

Probably doing Bill a favor because they've known each other for so long. While I don't believe for a second that Coulter believes a word of what she's hawking, I think she genuinely enjoys trolling. You just can't be that good at it otherwise. 

She loves trolling. She is the world's greatest troll and has made lots of money and had lots of fun doing it. I don't think she loved it this week (I think that's why it was so flat) since she knows her book is DOA and it's probably better her for her professionally anyway to be attacking Hilllary as POTUS with a few swipes at the "potty trained Republicans" than to be defending Trump but in general she really does enjoy her work. And yes she totally knows that she's full of it. If she really believed she would be like that gun girl that pulled a Hindenburg a while back instead of a master communicator.